The Killing - General Discussion

[marys1000]

I really liked Season 1 and was so glad when it got renewed.  Don't remember S2 though other than it brought Linder and Holder which carried me on.

S3 was a decent watch acting wise but thought the whole death row thing an overheated distraction and wasn't sure why it was in there. 

Absoutely did not buy Skinner as the killer.  His speech in the car about killing.......weak, althought maybe thats what the BTK guy would have sounded like IDK.

(The idea of sleeping with a serial killer, that doesn't get explored much does it?  Sure the betrayal, the holy cow I really didn't know him,like any normal relationship that someone cheats etc.but not so much the physical part.  I think I would have to have my vagina surgcially removed or something. Totally creeps me out in a huge way). 

Loved S4.  A really good bookend to S1.  It started slow and built up nicely.  It was hard to watch Linden and Holder be mean to each other I didn't exactly enjoy that but thought it was realistic for a 6 episode arc. 

Despite some of the above questions about plot I saw this as a pretty feasible crime story. 

I thought some of the, er, sceneography? (not a word) was great.  Holder shouting where is he? at the church, Linden looking in the interrogation room mirroe and seeing herself alone, with Holder outside watching. 

I liked the ambiguity of the ending because I am not a shipper and for some reason the thought of them having sex makes me feel uncomfortable.  

  I like to believe that a good solid friendship can be as, even more powerful, than sexual relationships even though we rarely if ever seen them portrayed on tv. 

 

Thanks Netflix for the closure.

 

You know I just realized this post probably doesn't belong in the epi 6 - we need a 'I just binged watched this going to comment on the whole season' thread? 

Edited August 15, 2014 by marys1000

[hoodooznoodooz]

Frances Fisher is 62 and Mireille Enos 38, so a mother/daughter relationship is quite feasible. The problem is that with all the expert plastic surgery actresses get in Hollywood, no one looks old enough to be the mother of anyone older than 12!

Wow!!! That is FANTASTIC plastic surgery! FF looks amazing. And unfortunately, I think hair&makeup are trying to make MEnos look older than she is.

[Guest]

You know I just realized this post probably doesn't belong in the epi 6 - we need a 'I just binged watched this going to comment on the whole season' thread? 

 

The do have that thread here and that's where I moved your post.  :)

[RealityGal]

Re: the piano playing when the wires had been cut, I just assumed it was a "music is all in my crazy head" kind of thing which only proves that I'm quite capable of fanwanking on the fly. The whole military school plot had some issues but it also reminded me why I bloody love Joan Allen. The whole series had plot issues, of course, but you can't say they didn't develop the characters. I don't know that I need to see more of The Killing but I'm going to miss some of these characters for sure.

 

Also, I liked the conclusion. I appreciated that the Holder-Linden relationship is odd and still somewhat undefined. 

I was under the impression he had cut the wires out of self rage for killing his little sister.  It looked like she showed up as he was playing the piano, and thats when the whole "I'm a monster" thing happened.

[Cardie]

Except that the police techs said the inside of the piano was all dusty and the wires had been cut well before the murder. Kyle also said his older sister did it when having a snit.

[RealityGal]

Except that the police techs said the inside of the piano was all dusty and the wires had been cut well before the murder. Kyle also said his older sister did it when having a snit.

I had thought that he may have just "remembered" his sister cutting the piano wires because she was generally such a bitch, but I guess I totally missed the techs saying the wires had been cut well before the murder.  But it is much more interesting to think that he was playing the piano in his head.

[Mama No Life]

Both times they showed Kyle sitting at the piano he was merely sitting, not playing. It was confusing b/c they played classical music but he wasn't actually touching the piano.

[RealityGal]

Both times they showed Kyle sitting at the piano he was merely sitting, not playing. It was confusing b/c they played classical music but he wasn't actually touching the piano.

*gasp* OMG, I didn't see that at all!  I totally thought he had been playing the piano.

[shelley1234]

I binge watched the whole series in about a month, so all of the seasons were pretty fresh in my memory when S4 started.  I think it would have driven me mad to have the Rosie Larsen murder over 2 seasons if I wasn't able to just whip through it on Netflix, etc.  I thought it was well done though and it totally sold me on the partnership of Linden and Holder.  

 

I didn't buy Skinner as the killer either mainly because he didn't try harder to stop Linden from visiting Seward in prison and trying to get evidence and what not to get him a stay of execution.  You'd think if he really did the crime he would be more active in trying to get her off that trail and focusing on something else.  

 

As for that Linden had sex with Skinner, in the season opener of S4, it shows her taking the morning after pill and thank god they didn't go down the road of her becoming pregnant with Skinner's child.  I am not sure I could have handled that.  

[LisaM]

I figured that the Colonel was his bio mom which is why she was given custody of him in the will. Otherwise, giving custody of a boy to the unrelated commander of his military school struck me as completely weird. I thought that she and Philip had the baby and that she gave him up to Philip to raise. I would like to have seen how Kyle got away from the AJ and Lincoln because, at the end of the last episode, he was hiding behind a tree and they were closing in on him with weapons.

 

I was surprised to see that Holder had left the force too.

 

So shocking to see Linden smiling and wearing a blue scarf. I always think of Linden dressed in her ugly brown sweater.

 

Glad that they showed Holder at Bullet's grave.

 

It was a nice ending to the series. Linden deserves some happiness. Glad that we learned that she went to Chicago to see Jack and that he is now in college.

[LakeGal]

I finally sat down and started watching this final season.  I enjoyed the first episode.  But I did not watch season 3 recently so I was trying to remember things.  I remembered Skinner being killed.  But it took me a minute to remember Adrian and everything else.  I know I should go back and re-watch the final episode of season 3 but I just didn't want to.

 

I do like the camera work on this show.  Linden sitting in her car in the empty lot.  Holder leaning on the balcony deep in thought.  And it isn't raining all the time.

[lidarose9]

I was stunned when I realized Holder had put Skinner in the car and dumped it in the lake directly in front of his cabin. Wouldn't he have driven the car to another location to dump it? This just guaranteed that if anybody came looking for Skinner, they'd find him right away. Yet another incredibly stupid move, ranking second only to Linden going back to the cabin to toss in the cellphone. 

 

I also assumed that the first couple days after Skinner's death, Linden was in shock, absolutely gob-smacked that 1. this man she'd known so well was a cold-blooded killer, and 2. she'd just had sex with him and had feelings for him. Keeping the shell casings on the table, I can kinda understand. It was a way of forcing herself to face the reality of how wrong she'd been, how badly fooled -- as well as her feelings in coming to terms with the fact that she herself just committed a cold-blooded murder. Even if he deserved it. I have done that, kept something sitting out where it would remind me of something, almost like inflicting pain on myself to drive home a painful message.

 

I would like to say for the record, this show will always have my admiration for giving us a female lead who never gets naked (except in the shower which is shot modestly), doesn't show us her boobies ever, doesn't wear makeup or even give a shit about how she looks except to pull her hair back in a ponytail, and doesn't kowtow to anybody, ever. Never plays dumb, doesn't run her mouth, is never intimidated, doesn't apologize for anything even when she's wrong wrong wrong (except at the end, which makes it all the more powerful). You just do not see female characters on TV like that these days. Doesn't get hysterical (except in private in very extreme moments), and barely registers emotional at all. I remember in Season 1 being kind of bowled over by how different she was with Jack, smiling, trying to be all cheery and bright. So forced, so unnatural! I remember the episode where Jack went missing and you saw how quickly she could unravel when it concerned something personal. The depths of her character were wonderful. I loved how stiff she was with her mother, even when trying to make nice. There was something very honest about Linden. I will remember her. 

 

The ending, I thought, was brave. We do not see endings like this on TV much. Two people forge an incredible intimacy through some extraordinary trials, and then always they go their separate ways or at least return to their corners. How odd it felt to see them come back together, both recognizing it was SHE who would have to make the decision. In many ways, this show reversed the sex roles. I don't know if their reconciliation will involve romance or if they'll just be good good friends -- I don't care, but I was happy to have my cynical expectations rattled. This was never a happy ending show, and it took guts to return years later and show us these two people actually did grow and change from their experiences, and were both better people now. 

[FurryFury]

I'm binge-watching the show right now, currently on season 3 finale. I usually try to avoid AMC, their shows aren't my thing, but this one interested me, having a female protagonist, plus now it's complete and with a finale that didn't leave fans enraged, I gather (unlike, say, HIMYM, or Dexter, or soon to be True Blood). 

 

Anyway, the show's OK, I guess. It's nice to have a showrunner whose thought process I can at least understand, if not always agree with. I have to admit, there are whole storylines I've basically skipped, like almost everything involving Mitch in s1-2 (I like Michelle Forbes and it's clear she did a great job, but the character was simply infuriating and didn't play any role in the plot) and Seward in s3 (this character was better written, but again, very little plot relevance compared to his screentime). It kinda seems the showrunner became too enamored with the "drama" side of story, sacrificing pacing for the sake of it. I doubt I would have handled the show on a weekly basis.

 

Now on to the good things. I LOVED the visual aesthetic, what with the rain and water and cloudy weather. It's completely miserable in real life, but looks great on TV :) Also, Linden and Holder are great. I do have a weakness for screwed-up, angsty characters and deep relationships between them, so I was completely satisfied by this partnership. However, I find it surprising people thought it was strictly platonic, because s3, I thought, made it pretty clear Holder's got feelings for her (in s1-2 it may have been just a crush, but s3? Totally full-blown romance). I do like it that it's subtle, though. Makes it unconventional.

 

The crime side of things isn't as bad as I expected, having heard a lot of criticism, esp. on the Larsen case. I thought all perps made sense and didn't feel like retcons, which is something I've unfortunately become accustomed to in the recent shows. I did call both Terry and Jamie as murderers back in the pilot (although I didn't expect both to be guilty, I thought it was either/or), but I'm an avid troper, and I actually found it a plus for the show - it means the showrunner's thought process is similar enough to mine. I was OK with the Richmond storyline and I loved the conclusion, it was right up my alley.

 

OK then, I've only got season 4 left. I expect to be done with the show tomorrow after work.

 

PS Oh, and I'm a bit disappointed the show never made it clear Jamie was gay and in love with Richmond because it was kinda obvious. I definitely expected an anguished declaration of love in the finale.

PPS S3 resolution with Linden shooting Skinner despite Holder's reassurance gave me Veronica Mars season 2 finale flashbacks. The situations were so similar! Of course, Linden's much more of an anti-hero than Veronica ever was, and this is cable, not WB. Still, I wonder if the writer ever seen it.

Edited August 20, 2014 by FurryFury

[LakeGal]

I am enjoying this case more than the season 3 case.  Too bad they didn't do this case sooner.  The show might have lasted longer. 

[Lillybee]

Kudos to the actress ME who was brave enough to appear on the show with almost no makeup. She was still beautiful.

[LakeGal]

Well a lot happened in this episode.  Linden and Holder are both falling apart.  They are both seen doing/saying things.  We find out about Lincoln.  We even find out more about Cat.  The dead family were all pretty dreadful people except the child Nadine.  I am really enjoying this short season.

[LakeGal]

I have been watching one episode a day to be able to sit back and think about each episode and enjoy the buildup to the finale.  I really wish Wilson Cat would have spoiler tagged that post like was asked by others.  I just got spoiled and it ruined it for me.  I now don't dare read the ep 5 thread till I have watched the entire series.  I do not want to have the finale ruined too. 

 

This episode was a bit hard to watch at first.  I didn't like the itsy bitsy spider slapfest.  The boys really have a strange relationship with Rayne.

 

Linden can really be very unlikeable.  Last episode it was Holder with his family.  This time it was her.  I am glad neither is in my family.

 

I really liked the final scene.  

[Guest]

Please remember to use spoiler tags.  Thanks.

[LakeGal]

Both Linden and Col Rayne had a lot of close up shots on their face with no makeup. 

 

I laughed that Holder finally had a cell that wasn't a flip phone at the end.  I assume that was their way of showing it was years later after his daughter was born.

 

I noticed the death date on Bullet's gravestone and it was May 2014.  That seemed odd since it was 2013 when she was killed.  But with this added season they used a more recent date.  I also found myself wondering who paid for the nice gravestone for her.  Bullet didn't really come from a family that could afford that. 

 

I enjoyed this season.  I loved all the callbacks in this episode.  I was shocked when Richmond wheeled into the room.  I was certainly not expecting to see him.  The seal-like body on the beach in Linden's dream.  Just a lot of little moments that brought back earlier seasons.  I was happy with how they ended this series.  It is very bittersweet for me.  I enjoyed the series and will miss it.  But they ended it just right.  I don't often say that.  Seeing Linden & Holder later and in a better place.  Linden almost even smiled. 

[RealityGal]

Both Linden and Col Rayne had a lot of close up shots on their face with no makeup. 

 

I laughed that Holder finally had a cell that wasn't a flip phone at the end.  I assume that was their way of showing it was years later after his daughter was born.

 

I noticed the death date on Bullet's gravestone and it was May 2014.  That seemed odd since it was 2013 when she was killed.  But with this added season they used a more recent date.  I also found myself wondering who paid for the nice gravestone for her.  Bullet didn't really come from a family that could afford that. 

 

I enjoyed this season.  I loved all the callbacks in this episode.  I was shocked when Richmond wheeled into the room.  I was certainly not expecting to see him.  The seal-like body on the beach in Linden's dream.  Just a lot of little moments that brought back earlier seasons.  I was happy with how they ended this series.  It is very bittersweet for me.  I enjoyed the series and will miss it.  But they ended it just right.  I don't often say that.  Seeing Linden & Holder later and in a better place.  Linden almost even smiled. 

 

I sort of thought her family did have money?  I don't know that it was ever spelled out, but I assume her parents put the funeral together.  I got the impression that she came from a traditional family, and her being gay caused conflict which caused her to leave the house.  There was a couple I thought was crying a little loudly and holding each other, and I had assumed there we her parents.  But maybe they spelled out her situation in another place and I forgot about it.  She seemed so different from the other street kids, which gave me the impression that she chose to leave two parents who loved her, but couldn't accept her.

[shelley1234]

I sort of thought her family did have money?  I don't know that it was ever spelled out, but I assume her parents put the funeral together.  I got the impression that she came from a traditional family, and her being gay caused conflict which caused her to leave the house.  There was a couple I thought was crying a little loudly and holding each other, and I had assumed there we her parents.  But maybe they spelled out her situation in another place and I forgot about it.  She seemed so different from the other street kids, which gave me the impression that she chose to leave two parents who loved her, but couldn't accept her.

 

I assumed that too when they made reference to how the picture they had of her at her funeral and how that would be how her parents would want to remember her.  They wouldn't want to remember as she was before she died and when she was known as Bullet.  I was always touched by the dichotomy that it on the flip side, Holder did remember....in all her flaws and glory and who she really was remained with him.  I'd say Holder would have paid for the gravestone, but if he did it would have said Bullet on it, so yeah....I'm all on the parent route on this one.  

[myname2use4now]

I have just finished watching the first three seasons. Is it me, or does "Holder" sound a lot like "Mulder" when people, especially Linden, say it? Then to have a character named Skinner? I'm having all sorts of X-Files flashbacks. So far, it's a great show. Looking forward to Season 4.

[shelley1234]

This cracks me up....the Holderator:  http://thekilling.tumblr.com/holderator

[AmandaPanda]

For 1 million dollars I couldn't tell you his girlfriends name so that should tell you how interested I am in that story line. 

 

Whenever Jewel Staite shows up on any show I watch, I can only think of her as either Kaylee from Firefly or Becca from Flash Forward. I don't even bother remembering new character names for her.

 

The scene with Holder looking at the baby shoes made me want to hug him. 

[Primetimer]

The Killing says farewell with a six-episode Netflix run that wraps up its story but magnifies a lot of its flaws.

Read the story

[Chaos Theory]

I actually loved The Killing and found it to be one of the better police shows/mysteries in a long while. First off i hate most of the L&O/CSI shows i find them boring. I like single mystery season shows and i think the killings major mistake that they never truly recovered from was not solving Rosie Larsens murder in the first season. However i dud like the ultimate outcome.<br /><br />I do agree through that season 3 and 4 were ultimately better seasons in large part because i think the show runners learned from their mistake. <br /><br />Was the show perfect ...no. But i did enjoy it alot more then i enjoy most cop shows . I "liked" Linden and Holder and i liked the questions the show asked about them.. Was Linden as bad a mother as the woman in season 3? Was Linden just as big a monster as Skinner? What did all this mean for Holder? Questions most cop shows don't ask of their heroes.

[mledawn]

Note: some of my S1/2 antipathy may come from the fact that The Killing wasted the great Callum Keith Rennie. You just don't do that

This. THIS SO MUCH.

 

And do have CKR and Hugh Dillon in the same franchise but not in the same season or sharing screen time? CRIMINAL.

[misschung]

I actually thought that in character terms, the 3rd season was the best. I feel there was just so much on the surface of this show and they never really got at the meat - Holder's kid, Linden and Jack, etc.

[RealityGal]

I actually loved The Killing and found it to be one of the better police shows/mysteries in a long while. First off i hate most of the L&O/CSI shows i find them boring. I like single mystery season shows and i think the killings major mistake that they never truly recovered from was not solving Rosie Larsens murder in the first season. However i dud like the ultimate outcome.<br /><br />I do agree through that season 3 and 4 were ultimately better seasons in large part because i think the show runners learned from their mistake. <br /><br />Was the show perfect ...no. But i did enjoy it alot more then i enjoy most cop shows . I "liked" Linden and Holder and i liked the questions the show asked about them.. Was Linden as bad a mother as the woman in season 3? Was Linden just as big a monster as Skinner? What did all this mean for Holder? Questions most cop shows don't ask of their heroes.

 

See, I love Law and Order/CSI shows, and I thought I would hate the Killing because I do like things wrapped up in a tidy bow with some funny quips thrown in.  However, i think I really liked the Killing because of the fact that it was released when all the episodes were available so I could binge watch.  This is why I wish Netflix would have held onto it a little longer, its a perfect show to binge watch which is exactly how they release shows.  If I had to wait a week to find out something new with a show like this, I might have lost interest.  And I agree, Linden was a good anti-hero hero

[panthergirl13]

I just binge-watched S3 and 4, having watched 1 and 2 when they aired. I had actually liked S1 and didn't even mind that they didn't wrap up the murder in one season. S2 bored the crap out of me and sorry, I cannot STAND the actor that played Jamie. He's also on Boardwalk Empire and I think he is just awful.

 

S3 and 4 had their moments (Peter Sarsgaard was fucking amazing and at the same time completely wasted). The show looks incredible (that scene where Linden cracks the mirror?? Haunting) which is probably the only thing that kept it going for me. The police work was completely laughable and the red herrings exhausting. The true title card for this show would be Bad Detective.

[Kobi]

Did anyone catch what were the two rows of red somethings behind Linden and Holder in the final scene when they pull the car out of the lake? Those weren't body bags, were they? 

[Primetimer]

Why Stephanie Green can't with the unmitigated disaster that is the finale of The Killing's last season.

Read the story

[eteffi]

Thanks!

[panthergirl13]

Couldn't have said it better myself. I was one of the few people who liked S1 and I wasn't even pissed off when it didn't resolve at the end. To me, that was more realistic. 

 

But this last episode of the series...what total and utter dreck! I kept thinking the show was over and then there'd be another scene...and another... and then the 'coda'... (honestly, they could have ended it when she found the shell casing. Holder didn't fuck me over. Boom. The End.)

[eteffi]

Yeah, the failure to resolve the mystery at the end of S1 didn't bother me, either, to be quite honest, although I understand why people were frustrated with it.

[Merneith]

Honestly, I can't understand how anyone could watch the first season and not see this disaster coming with its highbeams on. Of course they fucked up the Holder-Linden dynamic because fucking things up is what the show is mainly about. Oh sure - great acting, interesting characters, moody lighting. But fundamentally, a rotten show about taking all those things and ruining them, one by one.

[eteffi]

Really? You don't understand how I could have watched the first season (which I enjoyed), and the second season (which I enjoyed), and the third season (which I enjoyed), and not have seen the disaster that was the 4th season coming from miles away? Hm!

[Merneith]

Really? You don't understand how I could have watched the first season (which I enjoyed), and the second season (which I enjoyed), and the third season (which I enjoyed), and not have seen the disaster that was the 4th season coming from miles away? Hm!

 

Well, you like what you you like, and that's your business. You're not wrong for liking what you like. The heart wants what it wants, right?

 

What I'm saying is that Season 1, 2 & 3 all had finales that screwed over the viewers' emotions. It shouldn't be a surprise that Season 4 finale also screws over the viewers' feelings about the characters. It's what the show has been doing from Day 1.

[Chaos Theory]

I actually disagree with about everything you said. I thought the final season made perfect sense. I have no problem when you can see twists coming, if they make sense and the majority of them dud. I loved the connection between the boys story and Lindens and his insistence that he wasn't a monster just when she was wondering if she was. Everything made sense to me . People tend to either overthink or underthink tv neither is very good. Very few shows will survive if you overthink them.

[Andromeda]

I quit watching mid-Season 2. I stuck around to see the S1 resolution, then just couldn't get into it for the subsequent mystery. Now I'm glad. Interesting piece.

I am mentally contrasting it with Breaking Bad, which I finally just watched. In trying to explain to my husband why BB is so damned awesome, I mention things like consistent characterization, solid writing and plotting, teases that come to fruition, twists -- but ones that always make sense and are never pulled out of the proverbial ass -- basically it did right everything that you say The Killing did so very wrong.

[eteffi]

Well, you like what you you like, and that's your business. You're not wrong for liking what you like. The heart wants what it wants, right?

 

What I'm saying is that Season 1, 2 & 3 all had finales that screwed over the viewers' emotions. It shouldn't be a surprise that Season 4 finale also screws over the viewers' feelings about the characters. It's what the show has been doing from Day 1.

And what I'M saying is that I disagree that Seasons 1-3's finales "screwed over the viewers' emotions," necessarily. Arguably Season 1 did that, although, like I said above, that finale didn't bother me. I thought the S2 finale was genius. And I was fine with the S3 finale. So we disagree. Doesn't mean I'm missing something, as you implied in your original comment, when I was surprised by my own hate for S4's wrap-up. 

It's an odd comparison, but I think Veena Sud and Julian Fellowes have the same problem: They're great at throwing up a lot of plot threads (too many, one could argue) that suck you in as a viewer; but they're both demonstrably horrible at resolving those plots in any logical, rational, satisfying manner. 

Interesting; now that you mention it, I can see that parallel. The main difference, though, which resolves in Fellowes' favor (and this is something Matt Debenham touched on in his piece on why S4 of The Killing was kind of a stinker) is that The Killing is a mystery show. If Sud can't manage to logically tie up the loose threads she's tossed out, she has a way bigger problem than Fellowes might in the same situation, because mysteries are so inherently plot-driven, and the entire thing will fall apart if the plot has holes or inconsistencies or twists that don't make sense. Whereas with Downton Abbey, you can fall back on the character stuff more; it's not as plot-dependent for its success, if that makes sense. I honestly got the sense from watching the S4 finale of The Killing that the writers were trying so hard to make it SENSATIONAL -- and to surprise the viewers -- that they disregarded everything else, including logic and fairness to the viewer.

I actually disagree with about everything you said. I thought the final season made perfect sense. I have no problem when you can see twists coming, if they make sense and the majority of them dud. I loved the connection between the boys story and Lindens and his insistence that he wasn't a monster just when she was wondering if she was. Everything made sense to me . People tend to either overthink or underthink tv neither is very good. Very few shows will survive if you overthink them.

Agreed. If you're anti-overthinking TV, you're The Killing's ideal audience.

Edited September 5, 2014 by eteffi

[RealityGal]

I actually disagree with about everything you said. I thought the final season made perfect sense. I have no problem when you can see twists coming, if they make sense and the majority of them dud. I loved the connection between the boys story and Lindens and his insistence that he wasn't a monster just when she was wondering if she was. Everything made sense to me . People tend to either overthink or underthink tv neither is very good. Very few shows will survive if you overthink them.

 

I binge watched all 4 seasons (thank you very much Netflix) loved the entire series and never felt fucked over.  But I'm with you, there is so much for me to overthink and dissect in life.  TV is my escape so I tend not to overthink it either.

[Guest]

Yes, they were pink body bags like from last season.  They were the missing teen girls like Callie that Skinner had killed and dumped in the lake.  

[Guest]

Late to the party but some thoughts-

 

1- I thought Kyle was just sitting at the piano those two times, not playing it.  

 

2- I thought Rayne made up the affair with Philip to explain her car being seen outside his house often.  I didn't think he was Kyle's bio-dad.  I think the writers figured that was why it was ok to make the father hate him and the mother seduce him.  But I take offense at that.  If you adopt an infant, which they did, you pretty much ARE their real parent-- emotionally, etc.  It's really not genes that keeps us from hating or seducing our kids.  

 

3- The one stupid thing I couldn't get past was this military academy the size of West Point on aerial views, full of armed misfit teens and ONE adult works there?  No counselors, teachers, security, nothing?  Every time anything went wrong all the kids ran to Rayne, even when she was off at a dancing event.  And she was usually off in that big house, not even in their ginormous school building.

 

4- I rolled my eyes at the tidy romantic ending.  But I've pretty much hated the end of all four seasons.  

 

The best part was seeing Linden with some lip balm on, and a colored item of clothing.  I figure instead of getting her makeup touched up between takes, Enos must get her lips swabbed with rubbing alcohol to keep them forever dry and chapped.  

 

 

[truthaboutluv]

Binge-watched the season this weekend after completely forgetting Netflix had released a final season. The good:

 

1. The mystery moved along at a fairly quick pace because they only had 6 episodes to work with. As others noted, it spared us the million red herrings like past seasons. Amazingly we only got one - the neighbor. I guess Lincoln and AJ could sort of be counted as red herrings, except not really because while they didn't pull the trigger, they did know what happened that night and did go back to retrieve the gun and try to cover that part up. 

 

2. I liked the throwbacks to the previous seasons with Callie's mom, Holder visiting Bullet's grave and the Mayor coming in at the end, even if it was to cover up Skinner's crime. Speaking of Skinner, I kind of liked Reddick, the one who Linden dismissed as lazy and useless, being the one who solved the case and figured out what she and Holder did. 

 

3. As much as I liked Kyle and thought he was a very sympathetic character, I kind of liked that this time the show employed the "after many twists and turns, it comes right back to the obviously guilty one from the start" method. 

 

And for the not so great:

 

1. I completely agree with others about Holder and Linden's amazing sloppiness in covering up the Skinner murder. Linden not being able to get rid of her gun and the casings is bad enough, but okay you can chalk that up to her going through her whole emotional spiral. However she kept leaving both items out in the open, right on her table - genius. And of course there's the going back to the scene of the crime to get rid of the phone when I'm sure there were many other places around the lake, more isolated, she could have found to throw it. And Holder dumps the body in the car, right next to the cabin.

 

It was all so ridiculous but the most ridiculous in my opinion, was covering up the murder at all instead of staging the scene to make it look like self-defense and calling the cops. Had they done that, sure, maybe there would still be questions but a lot of their actions that day, the things that made Reddick realize something was up, would have lined up and made sense. For example, Linden being the last one seen with Skinner, Holder making the comment about finding the guy who set him up after getting away from Internal Affairs, Holder going to Skinner's wife to ask about the lakehouse, etc. But no, instead they try to cover up the entire thing and not figure that someone would eventually wonder why they weren't hearing from Skinner.

 

2. The mystery. I could sort of understand Lincoln and AJ running to Rayne in a panic rather than going to the cops because it was their gun Kyle used, or more appropriately Rayne's gun that I assume AJ who had access to it, stole. And because of that I definitely understand going back to the scene of the crime to retrieve the gun before the cops got there, something else they would definitely not want the police to know. Plus, I think that night, after they returned to retrieve the gun, Kyle had probably already shot himself and so they figured he'd die anyway and everyone would assume he killed his family and then himself, so there would be no point in mentioning any part of their involvement to the police. But then he lived, they panicked and then listened to Rayne who had her own reasons for covering up for Kyle. I actually suspect they might have made the decision, particularly AJ (something about how he defeated and hurt he looked when they were getting ready to leave) to go to the cops with everything and that's why Rayne shot them. Because with both of their rich parents, I'm sure some fancy lawyers would have gotten them off since they never did anything but be there that night and then go get the gun. 

 

What bothered me about the plotline was all the abuse and torture they were inflicting on Kyle, particularly Lincoln at first and then later AJ got in on it again for some reason. With the latter, I actually think part of it was jealousy at all the attention Rayne was paying to AJ. As Rayne said, all these kids were so troubled and probably all had fucked up relationships with their family and AJ seemed to be Rayne's right hand student which probably made him develop some possessive/territorial/parent feelings towards her. It's why, as he kept saying, he just did everything she told him to do. But going back to the taunting, abuse, etc. that's what made no sense with the plotline to me. They were worried about Kyle remembering what happened that night, worried that he would know they were there, etc. and instead of steering clear of him or being polite, Lincoln especially constantly taunts him with the murders, puts stuff in his room that would only trigger the whole thing. It just made no sense really. The only thing I can think of is that they hated him so much that on some level they wanted him to remember so he'd know what kind of monster he was and what he did. But again, the panicking and freaking out to Rayne when they thought he was remembering just did not make sense.

 

3. And finally, what I'm sure will be a massively unpopular opinion - I hated the ending with Linden and Holder. I never shipped those two and never saw them as anything but police partners and good friends. I never saw any chemistry and I also never saw a great love story between them either. Yes, they're both damaged individuals and one can romanticize their healing and being better together but nothing I saw of their partnership ever convinced me of that. I especially did not want them together after they added the Skinner backstory last season with Linden which showed a pattern of her getting involved with people she was somewhat professionally connected with - her therapist from S1 (which I still don't understand how that was ethical), Skinner and now I guess Holder. I hated the entire last ten minutes of the season. Of course I'm also one of those who never shipped Goren and Eames on Criminal Intent and instead just loved how intensely supportive they were of each other. And I honestly saw way more chemistry and connection between the latter than Holder and Linden. 

Edited September 14, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[Guest]

Good point about her history of bad romances.  I guess that's part of why I hated the last 10 minutes, too.  It's like TV has to pander to the 'shipper' viewers and make all M/F leads fall in love.  I've worked with men my whole life and never fallen in love with any of them.  It's professionalism and independence and I'd like to see it in tv females.  

 

I also don't really understand the cover-up.  AJ, Lincoln and Rayne must've assumed Kyle was dead or dying, to leave him there.  To me, the obvious solution is tell the truth, or leave the school gun and let the police wonder how/why Kyle got it.  The only thing the others were guilty of was hazing and not realizing he literally meant to kill his family.  

 

I understand Rayne wanted to save Kyle but how did she know he'd survive and have amnesia when she instigated the cover-up, or did Lincoln do that on his own?  And really when your kid is a homicidal maniac, the best scenario is he be locked up in a mental hospital where she could visit him all she wanted, for once.  It's not like he was going to live at St. George's with her forever.  

 

And the obvious solution to Skinner was to make him do time for his crimes.  Or at least hand him a gun then shoot him and call it self-defense.  I get tired of the 'cops mete out vigilante justice' trope, too, though.  

 

 

 

[pagooey]

Yes, they're both damaged individuals and one can romanticize their healing and being better together but nothing I saw of their partnership ever convinced me of that. I especially did not want them together after they added the Skinner backstory last season with Linden which showed a pattern of her getting involved with people she was somewhat professionally connected with - her therapist from S1 (which I still don't understand how that was ethical), Skinner and now I guess Holder.

 

Interesting points. I'm coming from the opposite position--the beyond-screwed-up Linden and Holder are apparently right in my shameless shipping wheelhouse--but I find it telling that Linden has...succumbed, a few times, to relationships with men who have a certain professional authority over her, and who aren't above using that to manipulate her. I don't want to plaster a generic Daddy Issues label on it, but hell yes, her shrink planning to marry her, after she'd been clapped in the loony bin after a breakdown, IS unethical. Skinner was similar--she never completely trusted his resolution to the Seward case, and she was right...but he was the lead investigator, with whom she was having an affair, and her doubts about that were what pushed her into the hospital the first time. (I've gone back through S1 and S2, and am amazed by how much the Seward case is hovering around the edges and making Linden bonkers from the get-go.) All through S3 we can see Skinner toying with her again: casting doubt on her work, sending her off on a couple wild goose chases, turning seductive when he's at his most desperate...and she wants so badly to believe in him--or to believe that he's not the monster her gut's telling her he is--that she bends to it.

 

Whereas Holder really is her BFF. With him she's been vulnerable, mean, kind, crazy. Hell, she's drawn her weapon on him. And still he does not leave her, or manipulate her. He lets her run, again, as far as she can until she literally exhausts herself...and when she comes back ashamed and apologetic, he still asks her to stay. (And then she runs again, just a little more, literally around Seattle in a circle before she turns back to him.)

 

I am a total sucker for the epic, disastrous love story, granted, but that is sexay. (Also, mmmm, Holder, I would totally stay wherever you put me, yo.)

[FurryFury]

I've binged the show recently, and I don't agree that Holder/Linden was in any way pandering. The subtext was there from the beginning. And I'm not the one who watches her shows through shipping goggles, too.

It was hinted a few times Holder had some ambiguous feelings for Linden, and there were a few classing ship teasy moments in season 3, too. It was done pretty subtly (which I appreciated, because lately all TV romance is very much in-your-face), but it was definitely there.

[truthaboutluv]

I didn't think it was subtle actually. I think in S3, and one can say it was pandering because by then some fans were vocal about shipping them, they started hinting it clearly in some scenes that Holder could have a thing for her and there was of course that scene in S4 where Linden came over to have dinner with Holder and Caroline and with her there we had to be shown how Holder completely forgot it was Valentine's Day. And the entire moment was tense and awkward and definitely not subtle in my opinion.

 

My issue with the ending wasn't that I thought it was pandering, it's that I never shipped the two and never bought the possibility of them as a romantic pairing even with the not so subtle hints of Holder maybe being into her. I don't believe that Holder and Linden are two beautifully tragic people who will find happiness and light with each other. Nothing about their partnership ever convinced me of that and if I had to write a fanfic about how they story went after the show ended I'd say they'd be done in a few months at best if they got together. 

 

Like I said, they were good professional partners and even friends and sure they called each other out on their bullshit at times but honestly, I never really saw or felt, in my opinion anyway that those two truly opened up to each other to the point I buy this "you are my home" and that only they truly see each other or whatever. Linden frankly remained just as sully and sour and remote throughout much of the series and Holder was open about his addiction but I never really saw him open up to her about his father and what was clearly a troubled childhood and life with his sister. Finally, and I acknowledge this is completely subjective, I never saw any chemistry between those two...EVER. The few times they kind of flirted I guess and Linden attempted a smile, I just found it incredibly awkward to be honest.
'

Edited September 18, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[janie jones]

That Lincoln douchenozzle is such a jackass. Kyle's ENTIRE FAMILY is dead, and he's making comments about Kyle's little sister? What kind of morally bankrupt person would do that? Gah.

Whether or not Kyle actually killed his family (well, maybe only if he didn't), I'd love it if he told that kid, "I shot my entire family in the face; maybe you shouldn't fuck with me."