Past Seasons Talk: The Antics of the Back of the Yards Crew

[maraleia]

I fell in love with this show when they got the poorer neighborhoods of Chicago correct (I live here). I stayed for the characters and their struggles especially Debbie. What made you keep watching and what were your favorite stories prior to season 4?

[stagmania]

I'm here for the siblings (kind of hate Frank, despite WHM's stellar acting), and Lip and Ian were always my favorites. I thought Lip was a great co-pilot for Fiona, and loved how supportive he was with all his siblings. I especially loved Lip and Ian's close relationship, a dynamic that was sorely missed in season 4.

As for the various romantic entanglements, Ian and Mickey was the only one that really got me. It was such a slow build, and Mickey was so gross at first, that when I found myself rooting for them in season 3 it took me by surprise. Very well done by the writers. I also really liked Fiona and Jimmy and Lip and Karen in season 1, but those relationships were ruined in season 2 when they started the dumb plot with Estefania and the mob and turned Karen into an insane narcissistic asshole, respectively.

[Blue Castle]

I started watching about midway through season 1 when it was first airing.  I stayed initially for Fiona--I really enjoyed Emmy Rossum's acting and I always like shows that have strong female lead characters.  Parts of the show put me off (there's this element of Shameless when Frank does something HORRIBLE and it's kind of treated as funny that bothers me) but all the stuff at the end of season 1 with Monica I thought was brilliant so I kept with it.  (I've also loved Chloe Webb ever since China Beach, another show that John Wells wrote for).  One of my favorite moments is when Fiona is arguing with Monica about taking Liam and Fiona says "You were my mother!"

In second season I really enjoyed the entire 'Lip leaves home' storyline when he's desperate to both avoid being successful and also to avoid becoming his father.  One of Shameless' most touching moments for me is when Lip finally returns home in the finale and they all run to hug him.   And, again, I loved the Monica story that year.  That scene when Fiona comes home to find that her parents took the family's savings and now Monica is too depressed to even leave her bed--man, that's a good scene.  Also, all the stuff with Monica's suicide attempt.  One of the few times I really liked Jimmy Steve was when he and Fiona clean up Monica's blood together.

 

As for the various romantic entanglements, Ian and Mickey was the only one that really got me. It was such a slow build, and Mickey was so gross at first, that when I found myself rooting for them in season 3 it took me by surprise. Very well done by the writers.

For me, it was only this year that I started rooting for Ian and Mickey.  While I felt incredibly bad for Mickey in season 3, I didn't think he'd ever be able to accept himself enough to have a healthy relationship with Ian.  I love what the writers did with Mickey in season 4--it was an actual positively happy story (and god knows the show needed it to balance out against the Fiona stuff) to watch Mickey start to accept himself and then realize that maybe he could do and say the things he always wanted to.  Beginning the season with Mickey only having a crumpled up photo of Ian hidden in his bathroom, to ending it with Ian in his bed and the whole world knowing that they're a couple--that was really exciting to watch.  And I believed the whole thing because it was so well written and Noel Fisher was absolutely amazing.  Even with the prospect of Ian's manic depression--I feel like those two will eventually be okay because they've come through so much together.

[stagmania]

The Monica stories have always been really strong. The Thanksgiving episode, especially. I won't forget the image of her on the kitchen floor, and you're right that the aftermath was a very strong moment for Jimmy/Steve. I wish we saw more of that side of him, and less of the restless hustler schtick.

I see why they can't go back to the Monica well too often, but I would love to see her return and learn about Ian's bipolar disorder next season.

[jnymph]

I just discovered this show On Demand.  I quickly fell in love with it's portrayal of the dark horrid realities of life infused with humor. Sometimes it misses the mark, but that's life for you.... you try to find the humor ... and there IS NONE.   

 

I'd have to say Joan Cusack as Sheila is my favorite side character, and Emma Kenney as Debbie is my favorite Gallagher.   Both sweet souls trying to see the positive, yet doling out the right amount of bitch when the situation requires it.    

 

The episode where Sheila babysat Ian for the day had me in tears.  Cusack rocked that out of the park.  Love the storyline of her, Jody and little Hiram (sp?)    Any storyline with Debbie touches my heart too. 

Edited June 5, 2014 by jnymph

[CarolMK]

I really like pretty much all of the characters on the show. One of my favorite stories from season 1 is the one in which two thugs are looking for Frank after he doesn't come through with his $6000 end of the deal, and the family along with Vee/Kevin have Frank knocked out with tranquilizers to pretend that he's dead, right down to where the thugs help carry out the coffin that's filled with rotten meat (stolen from a hapless driver who's lost)..that whole storyline was hilarious, in my opinion.The Monica/Bob side story in season 1 was also a good one, especially when they found out that Liam was Frank's child and Ian was the son of Frank's brother.

[Blue Castle]

 

I see why they can't go back to the Monica well too often, but I would love to see her return and learn about Ian's bipolar disorder next season.

 

Oh, I just saw this even though you wrote it two months ago!  I agree.  I really want to see Monica again and they've now got a really good reason to bring her back. 

[maraleia]

A place to discuss particular episodes, arcs and moments from the show's first four seasons. Please remember this isn't a complete catch-all topic -- check out the forum for character topics and other places for show-related talk.

[Chas411]

I loved the relationship of Lip/Karen in season one and though part of me would never support it after she slept with Frank, I still slightly resentful that they effectively ruined the character by turning her into a one note moustache twirling villain. There had always been a genuine friendship/understanding between her and Lip that could have been salvageable before all the shite of S2/3 happened. I always felt the character got the shaft to make room for Mandy who never had the same effect on Lip or on myself as the viewer.

[Advance35]

I like the Gallaghers collectively and in terms of individuals the one's that interest me most are usually Fiona, Ian, Lip and Carl.   Deb has just never grabbed me so far.   I detest Frank, though I think WM is really a great actor.

 

I am on/off with Sheila.   There have been times I found her hysterical and there have been times where she has honestly broken my heart, but I have been irritated by her a lot too.    In the premier of Season 4 when we check in on Sheila and we see she made herself a wonderful dinner with appealing place settings and than we see she's alone with nobody to share it all with, it was one of the most heartbreaking moments of the whole show for me.

 

I have grown to love the Milkovitch siblings.  Mickey and Mandy are like double trouble for the Gallaghers, specifically Ian and Lip.   Mickey is the flame to Ian's moth, he just can't resist and Ian is so solid and level-head in most instances.   Seasons 1-3 Mickey just used Ian for stud-service even though Ian was absolutely in love with him and it's only in S4 that Mickey has thawed and let himself fall in love in return and it's been really interesting to watch.   Ian's slow and steady to Mickey's over the top and high strung ways, and based on the finale we may see just what a nurturing Mickey looks like or if he's even capable of it.

 

I am one of the few (around here) who likes Mandy.  I think she has a very sweet side to her, though the girl is certainly a Milkovitch.   Running down Karen, threatening to bury that pedophile woman in her own front yard and having her brothers dig the grave in her front yard but than she does things like fill out college applications for Lip without him knowing.   She's the reason he got into college and she hoped they would still be together but she was pretty sure they wouldnt' when she did it.   I  think she has on occasion showed real selflessness.      I think that side of her has appealed and does appeal to Lip but I think  he know's the girl can also go 3 quarters crazy.

 

I also like Ian, Mickey, Lip and Mandy mixed and matched.    I think the Ian/Mandy friendship is very sweet and I wish it got more time.    I liked when Ian came up with the idea to have a bake sale to raise money for her abortion when he found out that she had gotten raped by her own father and how Mandy pulled a shotgun on Terry when he attacked Ian.   We know she was in contact with him when he was off the grid from Southside and the army.   Ian standing up to Lip and telling him he didn't like the way he was treating Mandy was also very sweet.    And of course Mandy's "Your a pussy" to Mickey when he let Ian walk out rather than admit he has feeling for him.

 

I LOVE the antagonism between Lip and Mickey.   Mickey is rude, obnoxious, crude and disrespectful and a host of other things to Lip and You can tell Lip would like to tear him apart but restrains himself because he knows Ian loves him.   Mickey stealing and wearing Lip's shirts.   Sicking Kenyetta on Lip at school.   Mickey has softened over the seasons but at heart he is still Mickey and he'll cause trouble for anyone he doesn't like, just because.   I think some of it comes from Lip's protectiveness of Ian, he's seen how Ian (who is usually strong, solid and levelheaded) can be broken and rather easily when it comes to Mickey and doesn't like how much power Mickey has over Ian.    And Mickey just doesn't like Lip and will make him miserable whenever he can.   But it frequently can come off as humorous, especially with Mickey's insults.

 

Love this show.

[Blue Castle]

 Chaos Theory said in the Shameless in the Media thread:

 

 

I do agree a little too much Frank but that is a minor quibble and it is William H Macy how can you not use him as much as you can?

 

I don't know--William H. Macy is a great actor, but I think he's miscast as Frank.  Or rather, the writers don't write the part to his strengths.  Macy excels at playing sad sacks and down in the mouth type people.  He plays the patheticness and bottomless need of Frank well, but the charm is never quite there.  Frank should be despicable but there should be a spark in him that allows us to see why he gets away with what he gets away with.  I find his character interesting only when he has a serious moment with Fiona, Lip, Carl, or Monica--but most of the time he's placed in these "humorous" stories/schemes where he's supposed to be outrageous and the spirit of pure id or whatever--but it falls flat 99% of the time.  That type of stuff doesn't fit the way Macy plays Frank and the writers should've realized that back in season 1 or 2 and written to fit his strengths better but they never really did.

 

ETA: well, I guess they kind of did in season 4 with Frank's cirrosis storyline--which is one of the reasons I liked season 4 Frank better than the previous seasons.'  Maybe Frank's stories in season 5 will be better than I'm anticipating.

Edited December 19, 2014 by Blue Castle

[Chaos Theory]

Showtime was having a marathon of season 1 and I am up to the episode where Monica shows up with Bob to try to take Liam.  The first half of the first season was so much fun.   Steve was always annoying (or maybe I just find him annoying because I know what he will become, I forget now if I always hated him)  Debbie both cute and scary.     It is fun yo watch the early Mickey and Lip stuff all over again considering how much I ship those two crazy kids.   I loved Shiela during season 1.  I thought she was a great character.  The two scenes I liked best was when she was babysitting Liam and he got lose and she tied some sheets so she could go outside to rescue him and when Karen came home after the purity ball all upset and she got so angry at her husband for calling Karen a slut that she followed him outside to his car.    

Well that's about where I am now.  Don't like Steve.  Love everyone else/  

[Chas411]

I hated how they turned Karen into such a charicature during season 2/3. She was an intriguing character through most of season one and by the time season two came around it was like they'd lost all interest in her and decided Mandy was going to be Lip's main girl (a decision that I feel was developed due to the real life relationship of Emma Greenwell and Jeremy Allen White more so then the actress's genuine talent). Karen's final exit was so messed up but I'm over it now and can see that she probably wouldn't have had much of a role in later seasons. Now if only the writers would just kill the snoozefest that is Mandy/Lip once and for all...

[Mindymoo]

I did think that Mandy was better for Lip overall, because she did want Lip to go to college and get out of the slums. Yeah, Karen turned into a charicature, but she had a whole plan of just having Lip getting her knocked up to get him to stay in poverty with her. Not excusing what Mandy did in anyway, but in the kind of home she was raised in, you can see how she got the desperate. And Lip did finally go to college because of all of those applications, so Mandy does have that in her corner.

[Chas411]

Oh yeah like I don't think Karen was in anyway the better option for Lip. Part of the reason he was so drawn to her was that she couldn't give a fuck about him whereas Mandy genuinely cared and that for Lip was just too easy. Karen getting pregnant wasn't really about Lip though. He pursued her despite her telling him to leave her alone and it was because he was so obsessed with her that she was easily able to manipulate the situation once she was bored with Jody.

 

But I still hated Mandy/Lip. Mandy cared and did some great things for Lip but there was still another side to her that was posessive and controlling. Plus she brought out the ugliest side to Lip in the way he often treated her.

 

Hitting Karen with the car was so messed up but by then Karen was such a charicature that I think the writers were just doing it for the comedic factor.

[fliptopbox]

I personally loved the scene where Mandy hit Karen with the car. She looked like a rag doll flying through the air, and so peaceful when she hit the ground. It was probably the first time in her life where she wasn't plotting to manipulate somebody. Mainly a man. She was a complete hosebeast by the end of season 2 and I am glad they wrote her character off the show with Jody taking her to AZ or wherever. I wonder if we'll ever get any updates on her status as the series progresses. In a way I hope she never fully recovers.

 

I was also amused with her pseudo-goth transformation into Daddyz Girl at the end of season 1. That was such a caricature of the tortured goth teen, it was laughable. Yet she managed to recover her previous look by season 2 like it never even happened....fixing that hacked off awful haircut and all. The magic of tv..

[paramitch]

I've kept meaning to try this series, and finally jumped in a few months ago. So I've been bingewatching by season, and just finished season 4 last week.

 

My reaction to the show is really divided. I'm torn because on the one hand, it's just not funny to me. At all. I've cried at this show far more than I've laughed. I grew up dirt poor, and that included foster care and a parent with addiction issues, as well as parenting three younger siblings, so it's often been really hard for me to find the laughs. I just don't think the show is in any way a comedy. 

 

I almost gave up watching after the S3 episode in which Frank literally killed 

Dottie "Butterface" Coronis

. I mean, his selfishness literally killed this woman -- she should have gotten that heart, and Frank's lies and deception literally kept her from a hugely lifesaving and lifechanging procedure. So I was happy that in the end he was genuinely sad (and in a raw way we don't often see from Frank), but I've still never quite forgiven him.

 

The person I feel the writers have most let down as far as consistency is Sheila, who in the first three seasons came off as kooky, yet warm and loving in spite of her OCD and agoraphobia. But in Season 3 (and even more in 4), she just came off like a complete idiot and I found myself getting frustrated at most of her scenes, which felt unbelievably cartoonish -- suddenly she's fighting to use the word 'retard' -- really? She's adopting 5 Native American children and marrying an unconscious Frank? It just went too far and got too silly for me. In a similar way, I felt the writers really took some wrong turns with Debbie in Season 4 -- while I could believe that her smarts and maturity could actually be detrimental to the point that she'd want to leapfrog right into her late teens in many ways, the idea that the family would REALLY be so blase about a 13 year-old dating a 20 year-old guy just felt asinine to me. And her heel-turn from being one of the show's sweetest characters to one of its worst also just felt cartoonish to me -- even factoring in teenagehood. It just felt early and forced to me (and probably depressed me more than any other storyline other than Fiona's).

 

One addition I've really liked is Emily Bergl as Frank's daughter Sammi. The actress perfectly captured that disturbing subtext where the character really went down some wrong roads -- for instance, that she was so desperate for Frank's approval that she'd cheerfully give him heroin -- but I also found myself moved by her many times in Season 4 as well, especially when she had to care for Frank and even bathe him, battling his modesty and fear of being naked before his daughter (that scene really moved me).

 

As far as the brothers go, I love Ian but I cannot stand Lip, and have never ever liked the character. He's an incredibly judgmental character who nevertheless forgives himself for everything he does. I get where he's coming from, but his constant sexism especially in seasons 1-3 was really difficult to take, as was his nastiness to Fiona in Season 4. Lip owes everything to Fiona, so his unrelenting nastiness to her over one mistake (that was almost entirely due to that boss's brother/douchebag) just felt over the top and unfair to me. I only started liking Lip or tolerating him at all in Season 4.

 

Meanwhile, the character who's most surprised me has easily been Mickey -- the actor's amazing, and has brought so much raw sadness, self-hatred, discovery and unexpected sweetness to the character and his ongoing relationship with Ian. He made me care not just about Mickey and Ian, but about Mickey, about hoping that Mickey himself would find something beyond self-loathing about his own sexuality and identity. He's my favorite character right now.

 

I have almost walked away from the show a dozen times, at least -- sometimes because it was too real, others because it wasn't real enough. But William H. Macy's incredibly complex Frank has kept me coming back -- this utterly disgusting dregs-of-humanity guy has these glimmers of sympathy and transcendence and love, and Macy does that so well, as when he stood up for Carl, or when he cried as the little girl passed away in the bed next to him. I think he's pretty fantastic in the role. But the best actor on the show, for me, is easily Emmy Rossum as Fiona. Thanks to Rossum, Fi's warm and human yet also flawed and believably weak. The storylines for poor Fi in Season 4 totally broke my heart. I'm hoping 5 is easier on the poor thing, as she deserves some good things to come her way.

 

Still, even though I'm totally in for seasons 5 and 6, I can't say I like the show. I don't enjoy it at all. But I think it's beautifully done (mostly) and it keeps me watching and wanting to know what will happen next.

Edited March 9, 2015 by paramitch

[SlackerInc]

I just got a free month of Showtime on Roku, and as I'd heard about this show for years I tried it out and I'm hooked after seeing the pilot.  It's probably going to be the thing that keeps me paying after the free month (just what I needed with all the other great TV on my plate: now I'm only 59 episodes behind and counting, LOL).

 

But I do have one major quibble.  Everything about the script (watering down the milk, scrambling for money to pay the electric bill, the broken-down minibus in the yard...etc.) indicates that their dwelling and furnishings should be much more cramped and shabby than they actually look. Their stuff is way nicer than mine! No duct tape holding anything together (the old "broken" washing machine was even a late-model front loader), no cracks in the walls, no mismatched/castoff chairs, etc.

 

In fairness, this is par for the course: with a few exceptions (Roseanne being a notable one), production designers and set decorators seem unfamiliar with the milieu of a large swath of society that lies in the "working poor" zone between the middle class and the destitute (the latter, whether living on the street or in some sort of abandoned, crack-house kind of dwelling, they do portray pretty regularly). To them, the stuff they place in the set is shabbier than anything they can imagine in their living space.  And of course it's entirely possible that they will (that is, did) get their act together in this regard after the pilot, although I'm not holding my breath on this count.

 

I will keep watching regardless, but it does make the suspension of disbelief harder than it ought to be, based on the excellent writing and acting.

[Pdxblonde]

On 8/14/2015 at 0:50 AM, SlackerInc said:

I just got a free month of Showtime on Roku, and as I'd heard about this show for years I tried it out and I'm hooked after seeing the pilot.  It's probably going to be the thing that keeps me paying after the free month (just what I needed with all the other great TV on my plate: now I'm only 59 episodes behind and counting, LOL).

 

But I do have one major quibble.  Everything about the script (watering down the milk, scrambling for money to pay the electric bill, the broken-down minibus in the yard...etc.) indicates that their dwelling and furnishings should be much more cramped and shabby than they actually look. Their stuff is way nicer than mine! No duct tape holding anything together (the old "broken" washing machine was even a late-model front loader), no cracks in the walls, no mismatched/castoff chairs, etc.

 

In fairness, this is par for the course: with a few exceptions (Roseanne being a notable one), production designers and set decorators seem unfamiliar with the milieu of a large swath of society that lies in the "working poor" zone between the middle class and the destitute (the latter, whether living on the street or in some sort of abandoned, crack-house kind of dwelling, they do portray pretty regularly). To them, the stuff they place in the set is shabbier than anything they can imagine in their living space.  And of course it's entirely possible that they will (that is, did) get their act together in this regard after the pilot, although I'm not holding my breath on this count.

 

I will keep watching regardless, but it does make the suspension of disbelief harder than it ought to be, based on the excellent writing and acting.

I keep thinking their teeth are too perfect and white. There's no way those kids were getting proper dental care with Frank and Monica as parents. 

[JustaPerson]

I was confused as to why they didn't just go with getting out on parole/probation for Mickey to come back to the show in later seasons. Presumably that was why his dad was always in and out their lives? Coming out on probation, then promptly breaking it again and getting sent back.

[planet17]

On 23/02/2017 at 9:40 PM, JustaPerson said:

I was confused as to why they didn't just go with getting out on parole/probation for Mickey to come back to the show in later seasons. Presumably that was why his dad was always in and out their lives? Coming out on probation, then promptly breaking it again and getting sent back.

Something happened back stages. We don't know what, but something definitely happened.

 

They clearly didn't have any plans to send Mickey off the show, but apparently Noah Fisher let them know last minute he wasn't returning after the end of his contract, that's why they had such weird season 5 finale. We'll never really know what really happened, but we can assume something bad happened and that's why Mickey is out of the show.

 

I'm particularly glad, because I want to see Ian developed as an individual.

[Chas411]

I think I remember reading that the show runners had to work around Noel's schedule conflicts or something. I don't think the actor wanted to stay full time and because of that he was released. I don't think there's bad blood or anything though..

[planet17]

He didn't want to come back. The producers said on their social media that they wanted to continue writing for Mickey, but for some reason Noel is done. He accepted to come back for 2 episodes to give a better closure for the character.

[FuriousStyles]

I dont know how I never watched this show.  I vaguely remember hearing about it but recently somebody recommended it and I've been binge watching ever since.  Im almost done with season 4.

Of the Gallager clan, Lip is easily my favorite.  I hated his reluctance to go to college and better himself and its confusing why he would have such an aversion to higher learning yet apparently spent a lot of time reading outside of his typicaly schoolwork stuff.  Thank goodness for the people who saw his potential (the guidance councilor, the guy at the University who almost correctly predicted that Lip would get his skanky girlfriend pregnant and he'd probably end up working at Blockuster, and especially Mandy who bless her heart plagerized his admission essays).  Anyway sometimes he was too raw but I really liked his honesty.  I definitely root for Lip

I try to like Fiona...but I just cant.  It was fitting to me that after she went on her bender she told Lip she's lost since she hasnt been the one who takes care of everyone.  That was really the only part about her I liked.  Mike's sister was right. Fiona thinks she's a good person but she's not.  I dont hate Fiona with a passion as I did someone like Karen or Steve/Jimmy (please let him be dead) so Im hoping after her 90 day stint in the slammer she'll get her shit together.  I havent seen someone be so self-destructive in such a short span a time. I get she didnt like Mike as much because he's a nice guy.  Mike actually reminded me of the cop from season 1 and 2 who liked Fiona....but she ended up with Steve/Jimmy. But how did you have such low impulse control that you fuck your boyfriend's/boss's brother? SMH!   With all that said,  I think the actress is fantastic.  Her crying scenes throughout these 1st couple seasons are really good.  I especially like how she'll cry for a few seconds and then just get right back to taking care of the house.  I noticed Lip did something similar when he was working in the school cafeteria and I think his boss wouldnt give him time off to go study for a test so he went out back to pound on the dumpster.  Afterward he collected himself and went right back to work.

Debbie.  Im so fearful for her. She's seen and experienced so much....some of it sexual in nature.  The guy who exposed himself/jacked off on the bus infront of her really stuck with me. Her almost obsession with losing her virginity at 13 is so bothersome.  The show has already established that thats the typical age (if not younger) where kids start having sex but Debbie always seemed like the one to stray from the norm.  With Lip and Fiona not having any kids (yet) I have a feeling Debbie is gonna be the one with a kid.

Mikey seems to be a popular character here but at this moment I only slightly like him now that he told his father to fuck off and finally told everyone he's gay.  Frankly I think the makeup people just did too good a job making Mikey look like trash.  He always looked so dirty and smelly (and pale!) I just couldnt see past that.  I think it was Lip who said at least anybody else Ian finds would be an upgrade or something to that effect.

Love Kev and Veronica.  I look forward to seeing them as parents.

Frank is such a shit person. I was hoping he died.  When Sammi and Shelia found out Frank's kidney had been stolen instead of him getting a new liver I was kind of happy.  He's done so much shit including pretty much killing that woman with the heart condition he deserved to die IMO.  Im not looking forward to seeing more of him if he's going to have the same attitude and heaven forbid continue to drink.  I dont need him to be father of the year.  Its probably too late for that (except for maybe Carl and Liam) but just be a decent human being. 

Edited May 10, 2017 by FuriousStyles

[kieyra]

I've avoided this show since it started because I knew it would hit a little too close to home.

But this has finally been the Dryest Summer of TV Ever so I gave in. I'm about halfway through the second season.

The performances are really good. It's good that they made Fiona the heart of the show, because if was all centered around Frank I wouldn't have made it through one episode. If I had been the eldest child, I would have been the Fiona, but I was the youngest and my older brother signed on for my parents' way of life, so I was pretty much "raised by wolves", as Jimmy/Steve says to Debs in S1.

I think they also made a smart move with the including of Sheila and Kev/V. They soften the awfulness that is Frank. 

And speaking of Frank. I'm sure this is my own issues talking, but I struggle with the central message, which so far seems to be "nothing is more important than family, even when said family members are abusive, criminal deadbeat addicts". I was cheering for Steve when he dumped Frank in Canada, and then mystified when Fiona was so angry about it. Fiona's tolerance of Frank (coming in and out of the house, stealing food, kidnapping Liam, etc) is the one off-note for me. She's made a lot of sacrifices to take care of her siblings, but then she gets mad at Steve for stepping in when Frank gave Ian a bloody nose. 

So maybe the message is more about Stockholm Syndrome? 

I'm also slightly confused by Karen's character. The writing seems to be all over the map. I think I missed some crucial scenes explaining why she hated her father so much. I know there was a theme there about toxic masculinity and daddies "owning" their daughters' "purity", but he seemed relatively passive (or wheedling, at best) other than the single instance of calling her a whore. Did I miss something? Sincerely asking. Even after his death she seems to hate him way beyond reason. 

As I type this, I'm also half watching yet another scene with Sheila and Jody, and unless they're about to kiss or something I'm really bored of him. 

ETA .. okay they kissed like five seconds after I clicked Post. I've officially watched too much television. Well, he's still a pretty meh character. I prefer Kev. 

Edited August 12, 2017 by kieyra

[kieyra]

I'm usually totally unmoved by wacky sex hjinx on this kind of dramedy, but something about the Kevin/Veronica/Veronica's Mom thing is hilarious. At first I was (predictably) squicked out, but they committed to the gag and Veronica just said the line "I don't want Kevin fucking my Mom any more than he has to", and somehow this payoff was worth it.

Of course, I type this having no idea how badly it might all crash and burn.

Edited August 14, 2017 by kieyra

[kieyra]

I think I missed something about why Lip is so broke. I also don't believe he wouldn't steal or swindle himself a decent laptop somehow.

[kieyra]

Wrapped up season 4. Mixed feelings. Fiona's spiral didn't work for me, and Frank on his back/dying all season was a momentum stopper every time he was on-screen. Actually, Ian's obvious bipolar disorder also stretched on way too long. Maybe they didn't have enough material for a whole season. On binge, it just feels off.

And at the very end ... fucking Dichen Lachmann. She keeps getting cast in high profile stuff so it must just be me, but I feel like she sucks the life out of every show of mine she turns up for. Google says she's only in six episodes, so just gonna power through it.

[kieyra]

I guess by season 7 Kev will have completed his metamorphosis into Khal Drogo.

[kieyra]

Mid-season 6 thoughts: I can't believe how irritating they made Debbie. I feel bad for the actress. 

This baby stuff feels likes it's been going on for a thousand years.

Meanwhile, Dermot Mulroney is in his 50s, but we're supposed to think the hot female college professor is pathetic for being with Lip, even though he's arguably more emotionally mature than Fiona. Older guy/younger woman is okay, vice versa isn't, one of the last solidly sexist tropes. No one calls out Sean as being Fiona's "dad", even though the actor is fully old enough to be the actress's father.

(Needless to say I don't care for Sean.)

[kieyra]

Hah. I'm rewatching the show and was looking for a place to express my hatred for Sean. Apparently I already did that in this thread.

He is seriously the worst. Smug, superior, and ultimately full of shit. How did that relationship arc go on for so fucking long?

[HamSammich]

On 8/14/2015 at 3:50 AM, SlackerInc said:

But I do have one major quibble.  Everything about the script (watering down the milk, scrambling for money to pay the electric bill, the broken-down minibus in the yard...etc.) indicates that their dwelling and furnishings should be much more cramped and shabby than they actually look. Their stuff is way nicer than mine! No duct tape holding anything together (the old "broken" washing machine was even a late-model front loader), no cracks in the walls, no mismatched/castoff chairs, etc.

In fairness, this is par for the course: with a few exceptions (Roseanne being a notable one), production designers and set decorators seem unfamiliar with the milieu of a large swath of society that lies in the "working poor" zone between the middle class and the destitute (the latter, whether living on the street or in some sort of abandoned, crack-house kind of dwelling, they do portray pretty regularly). To them, the stuff they place in the set is shabbier than anything they can imagine in their living space.  

Ok, late to the Shameless party but so much this! I’ve been dirt poor and let me tell you...you don‘t have a membership to Costco, you’re never buying in bulk and you can’t afford name brands. Check out their kitchen...the amount of name brand food and drinks they have completely distracts me. Being so broke that your utilities are being shut off and you’re regularly scrounging for change translates into small packages of the cheapest store brand items you can find.

Also agree about the furnishings and such. I suppose I can appreciate the token effort from the out of touch set designers but no, just no.

Edited August 2, 2018 by HamSammich

[DrSpaceman]

Just started the show and half way through season two, really enjoying it so far, trying not to read too much here because I don't want to know more about what happens. 

In terms of the house, it seems it has been in the family for a long time and they have just kind of legally or illegally inherited it from.....whoever, the aunt?  So I don't have too much problem with it and them being poor

In terms of the other parts of them being poor, thankfully, by the grace of god, I've never been that bad off myself, so I can't say.  Interesting perspective though. I think  It is true most Hollywood writers are completely out of touch with what this life would be like, so I can see them being inaccurate on those details.

Lip so far kind of bugs me.  If he is so smart and his family is in such desperate need of help, test out of high school and go onto college, just like he was offered in season one. 

Also in terms of his scam of taking the SATs for people, he was stupid for two big reasons :  First of all, miss some questions!!!!  Don't make it so obvious by getting near perfect scores for everyone.  Second, don't finish in 2 hours for a test that takes twice as long.  Those were bound to arouse suspicion.

In general though he seems full of himself and trying to act all too cool for everyone.  Too cool for college.  Too cool for the military.  Too cool to help on projects for the military for "moral" issues, even though he has no problem selling weed and alcohol to minors.  Also, its a high school girlfriend dude.  Move on.  Stop trying to ruin her life for finding someone else.

[SuprSuprElevated]

I'm assuming the name-branded things in the house have more to do with product placement / advertising than with poor set design.

Edited August 11, 2018 by SuprSuprElevated

[DrSpaceman]

Man Lip is an arrogant prick. 

I know they all have their issues, but he annoys me more than anyone. 

[DrSpaceman]

Lip just annoys me more and more as I watch

Telling MIT he doesn't want to go to class, because its beneath him, and giving a big speech about how they all aren't as smart as him because they aren't as innovative?

Screw you Lip. 

Plus he is completely wrong with his analogy about the steam engine and how innovation happens via revolution vs evolution, which is an age old argument.  At least in terms of the steam engine, it wasn't not a bold innovation but a series of progressive steps that added up over time, the opposite of what he was claiming

[Dee]

If you're annoyed with Lip now? Just WAIT until later. lol

[DrSpaceman]

Really?  I am up to the end of Season 5 and he has redeemed himself a bit in the first year or so of college. 

Season 4 was excellent, start to finish.  So many things to talk about with the Fiona storyline and her conviction, I wouldn't know where to start.  In general though its like every time one of them is given a chance to get out of the cycle of poverty, they manage to screw it up somehow via their own stupidity. 

[DrSpaceman]

End of Season 5 now, just started season six, and I have done 180s on many of these characters

Mickey I found completely irritating with no redeeming qualities to start the show.  Now I find him amusing and a bit charming in an odd way.  He cares for Ian and Ian is a god damn idiot, thinking that he doesn't need meds for his bipolar when he has seen what that same path has done to his mom.  "People have to accept me for who I am"  No, they don't.  Not when you are psychotic and kidnap kids, going on joy rides to Terre Haute Indiana with no plan at all and then blow some dude for money while you leave the kid in the car. 

Deb I though was one of the nicest characters early on, now she is 15 and thinks she is in love and wants to get pregnant and have a kid?  Why?  Again, have you seen the life of others that followed that path? 

Fiona.........you dated your boss before and how did that end?  So what do you do now?  How about I try dating my boss again.  I'm sure it will work better this time. 

Phillip as I stated, actually find him tolerable now, though the dating the lady professor is becoming overbearing.  On the other hand though, she is certainly a hot other woman.  Which of course is the theme of this show.  Hot men and women of all ages make poor choices and end up with shitty lives. 

Carl.....well he has followed just his destined path.  At least he is embracing it, I guess.  Oh, sorry, WHITE Carl. 

The empathy for the family members because of their poor upbringing is pretty much gone at this point.  They all just make stupid choices. 

Even V.........Oh my god my husband cares about the kids!!!  And he won't pay attention to me now!!!!  Its awful!!!!  Grow up V.  Her mom was right.  Most women would kill for a guy like that.  especially in a neighborhood where absentee shitty parents is the norm. 

Edited August 24, 2018 by DrSpaceman

[Chaos Theory]

As much as I do really like certain storylines Carl moving from baby Gansta to military man was fairly well done. I am also one of the few people who usually like Debbie’s coming of age story in a family largely consisting of boys and a sister who is equal parts mother.   

I do however think the show might have been better off of it ended after season 7 with the episode “Requiem For A Slut”.

i thought the episode was written like a series finale in case the show didn’t get another season....and looking back maybe it shouldn’t have 

[Dee]

Requiem For A Slut was the second most fanfic-ish thing that's ever happened to this show.

[Iju]

i'm on S1E9 and i'm floored with how the show portrays ian and his muslim fuck buddy. why the HELL are we supposed to care when ian is fucking a bloody PEDOPHILE. the show doesn't even show it in a bad light. it's just there. why am i supposed to care that ian got caught? why am i supposed to care about that pedophile's feelings? fuck that. fuck it right to hell. 

but besides all that, the show is pretty good. i lived in a poor neighborhood with six kids except the bad parents part. but how they live together is pretty accurate as well as their interactions with each other. the actors are very convincing and i love fiona's especially.

i know i said before that i can't relate with the bad parents aspect of the show, but i can relate with frank and i'm halfway watching the show for amusement because i did have an alcoholic grandfather and he's almost exactly like him. i guess my grandfather wasn't special (never assumed he was anyway, it's just a figure of speech) after all. all drunks act this way i guess. 

i'm also shocked how the language on this show could get past everything and still air lol. cable TV does wonders.

Edited June 1, 2019 by Iju

[Iju]

S2E5. i'm really sick of this karen-frank plot. pretty sure frank was raped since he was hella drunk and you could hear his protests. everyone keeps saying he banged her and i don't think frank even belives he was raped since he's a shitty person with shitty self esteem so he just feel guilty and doesn't say anything.

also, i will never forgive him for what he did to dottie. i feel the show went to far with that. he literally murdered someone for a hope of some cash. like what the hell man.

[Dee]

Frank gets worse. MUCH worse.

[idiotwaltz]

I’ve started watching this show recently and just finished Season 3. I loved Season 1 and most of Season 2 but I’m already starting to be annoyed with most of the characters. Should I bother with Season 4, or just call it quits now? 

[Natalie25]

3 hours ago, idiotwaltz said:

I’ve started watching this show recently and just finished Season 3. I loved Season 1 and most of Season 2 but I’m already starting to be annoyed with most of the characters. Should I bother with Season 4, or just call it quits now? 

I would watch through Season 4, and then maybe you can stop after that. For me the show peaked then, and while it gets darker season 4 is just so good - episode 11 is probably my favorite episode of the entire show.

After that...5 was okay, but I didn't like 6 at all. I did like 7 well enough, and it could have been a good series ender. Didn't like season 8 and forwarded through about 50% of it, and then basically only watched 1 short storyline in 9 and forwarded the other 95%. Season 10 was fine, I skipped some storylines, and I'll watch 11 since it's the last one.

[idiotwaltz]

On 11/15/2020 at 4:15 AM, Natalie25 said:

I would watch through Season 4, and then maybe you can stop after that. For me the show peaked then, and while it gets darker season 4 is just so good - episode 11 is probably my favorite episode of the entire show.

After that...5 was okay, but I didn't like 6 at all. I did like 7 well enough, and it could have been a good series ender. Didn't like season 8 and forwarded through about 50% of it, and then basically only watched 1 short storyline in 9 and forwarded the other 95%. Season 10 was fine, I skipped some storylines, and I'll watch 11 since it's the last one.

Thanks. I finished Season 4, not sure I’ll keep going. I started off the series rooting for the Gallaghers (except Frank), and by Season 4 the only one I can stand is Liam. The cast, while talented, is getting too bloated and I can’t stand Sammi and Chuckie. 

[TV Anonymous]

I am still scratching my head with the math on how Fiona was able to net herself $100k and pay the house off.