S23.E14: Week 11

[TiredMe]

Haven't had a chance to read others thoughts yet but I must say, I simply adore Calvin. He makes me smile every time so I would like to see him win. The freestyle was so cute and entertaining.

laurie and Val's freestyle was a bit too frenetic for me. It just felt all over the place.

I liked James freestyle. Cool intro and ending with his words playing. Choreography was good but I think he could of done more.

Overall, I like all three so I am fine with whoever wins. But I'd prefer Calvin. 

[PBGamer89]

53 minutes ago, realdancemom said:

To me, it was obvious that the judges were setting up James to have all 10s in the redemption dance.   They just couldn't do it because there was an obvious stumble.  I think the show would want Sharna to get her first MBT.  To me, Laurie did a jump in the Paso not a lift.  CAI probably saw it that way too.

I see positives and negatives in all three finalists.  I can see all three winning it for various reasons.  It's a popularity contest not a dance competition.  People vote for different reasons.

I saw it as that too. Say what you want about the judges loving Laurie, but they have been equally or more overzealous about James. Dude hasn't gotten an 8 since the 3rd week, he completely avoided Samba and Salsa and his fusion tonight is Foxtrot/Viennese Waltz, so the man hasn't done a real rhythmical Latin dance since Week 5 Rumba. He consistently got the comments like "you're the best male ever, you're unbeatable" not to mention that perfect score for the style over substance Viennese Waltz on Halloween night.

I saw the judges table camera on all access after the show aired and Bruno was looking straight at James/Sharna during the stumble, not away or down at his notes, so to say "I didn't see it" was a poor excuse for saying "we wanted to give him all 10's and i'm still going to regardless".

Edited November 22, 2016 by PBGamer89

[realdancemom]

8 minutes ago, PBGamer89 said:

I saw it as that too. Say what you want about the judges loving Laurie, but they have been equally or more overzealous about James. Dude hasn't gotten an 8 since the 3rd week, he completely avoided Samba and Salsa and his fusion tonight is Foxtrot/Viennese Waltz, so the man hasn't done a real rhythmical Latin dance since Week 5 Rumba. He consistently got the comments like "you're the best male ever, you're unbeatable" not to mention that perfect score for the style over substance Viennese Waltz on Halloween night.

I saw the judges table camera on all access after the show aired and Bruno was looking straight at James/Sharna during the stumble, not away or down at his notes, so to say "I didn't see it" was a poor excuse for saying "we wanted to give him all 10's and i'm still going to regardless".

In my post that you quoted, I also forgot to mention that the judges were going on about Sharna's freestyle choreography too.  I did think it was good but it had contemporary cliche moments, e.g. voice overs, angel/angel of death idea, etc. which I mentioned in one of my previous posts.  So it wasn't outstanding IMHO.

[photo fox]

Why is Erin's dress trying to shove her breasts down to her waist?  She's gorgeous, but that dress was doing her no favors.  I really didn't like her from watching her do her "day job", but seeing her hosting here has given me a vastly different impression of her.  

How do they pick these "redemption" dances?  Seemed like some odd choices, like Calvin's which was the highest scoring dance on the original night.

I'm a first-time viewer this season, drawn in because I freaking ADORED Laurie Hernandez during the Olympics, but honestly James stole my allegiance in week one and never let go.  Calvin is just delightful, too, so I'd be happy with any of them winning.

My thoughts, fully admitting that I know NOTHING about dance, and my comments are just about what I personally like:

Calvin is such a beautiful spirit.  I don't think his dancing is on par with Laurie or James, but I love watching him.  I'd give him an extra point for his smile alone.  I'm not sure I think that Lindsey was the best partner for him - I find them a little bland.  But their waltz was nice, and I LOVED their freestyle!  So much fun.  The conveyor belt work reminded me of the choreography from Kinky Boots that I was lucky enough to see on Broadway last year.  That was really cool.  I was glad that Calvin got a chance to dance without Lindsey, since so much of the time it seems like she's kind of dancing around him, if that makes sense.  The toss was great.  And how cute is his little boy?  Beautiful smile like his dad.

I was so tired of Jana's neediness, and I'm happy she's gone.  It wasn't a good look for her when she was being so abrupt with the fill-in guy.  Both of her performances were kind of boring, but I will say that Jana does make beautiful lines.  But she and Gleb just rub me the wrong way.  They remind me of that teenage couple who has no friends but each other, and spend all their time hiding under the bleachers, stroking each other's hair and talking about how "no one else understands us" and "it's us against the world!"  Shallow note - I really wish they had put her hair up.  It was always just flying around looking all stringy.  I actually liked Jana's freestyle, but it was just too similar in tone to everything else she's done this season.  Angst, angst, and more angst.  It's exhausting.

Like I said, I came into this assuming Laurie would be my favorite, but her dances just haven't been that interesting to me.  I did really like both her dances tonight, though.  Her paso was my favorite of hers all season.  She has a "punch" to her movements that I think works better for that style than for the more "graceful" dances.  I think she's somewhat handicapped, too, by her body type (short and super muscular).  I think it makes it harder to make pretty lines.  I just could eat her up, though, and Val has managed to not be creepy with her, which is quite a feat.  I do wish they wouldn't cast teenagers because  I think it's so limiting to the type of dances they can do.  Gratuitous slo-mo notwithstanding, her freestyle was really fun.  I loved the little moment when everyone else froze and she just went crazy dancing to the "everyone else won't see me dancing" lyric.

I love James so much, and I'm neither Canadian nor a racing fan.  I'd never heard of the guy before DWTS.  But I just love how he inhabits all the characters that Sharna creates, and I think they have a great partnership.  Again, I don't claim to be a dance expert, but James's performances are just so watchable.  I go back to them again and again.  (Admittedly, I'm a musical theater fan, so I gravitate toward those "acting" performances.)  That said, I wasn't wowed by their redemption dance.  Sharna's skirt was making me crazy before it tripped her up - too long, too heavy, it just made it hard to see her movements.

That freestyle, though!  Wowza.  Normally, I hate, hate, HATE the contemporary-style dances.  They just always seem so pretentious, and I think barefoot dancing looks so weird.  But that was AMAZING.  (And James has "earned" the right to do an angsty dance by doing so many different themes over the season, unlike Jana.)  Everything just worked together so well.  I agree with some that the voice over was too much, but they didn't need it, IMO.  I thought the crash sound effects, along with the lighting and costuming, told the story.  There's a little moment where Sharna lifts James that was so cool in the context of the "guardian angel" story.  I totally agree with Bruno that it was "visual poetry."  I got the feeling the judges wished they could give him 11s.

I go to various marching band field show competitions, and James's freestyle reminded me of some of the performances I've seen at those.  There will be schools that do these terrific, wonderful performances to fun themes that just make you smile.  And then a band comes in and does a huge, high-concept production, and it's so loud and dynamic, with a million moving pieces and great costuming, and they tell like, and entire story of the French Revolution in 15 minutes.  And you're not sure if you liked it, or even fully understood it, but you're just blown away.  It's art, not entertainment.

UCG moment - James has seen his wreck a thousand times?  I've seen it a thousand times on this show.  lol

 

31 minutes ago, PBGamer89 said:

he completely avoided Samba and Salsa and his fusion tonight is Foxtrot/Viennese Waltz, so the man hasn't done a real rhythmical Latin dance since Week 5 Rumba.

 

Question from a new viewer - who decides which celebs do which styles?  Because I see this complaint lodged against James a lot - and I get it - but I'm just curious if that's a deliberate decision by Sharna or whomever?  It just seems weird that they wouldn't spread it around a little if it's the producers' decision.

[PBGamer89]

11 minutes ago, photo fox said:

 

Question from a new viewer - who decides which celebs do which styles?  Because I see this complaint lodged against James a lot - and I get it - but I'm just curious if that's a deliberate decision by Sharna or whomever?  It just seems weird that they wouldn't spread it around a little if it's the producers' decision.

It's completely producer driven. I thought maybe he'd get stuck with at least 1 Latin style of his fusion, but nope, they have steered clear of it because they wanted him to be shown in the best light possible and that required Ballroom/non hip action, rhythmical dances and another dance to focus on his car crash.

I don't remember the last time a winner did so little Latin. Even Laurie did every Latin style except Rumba for completely obvious reasons.

The only 2 dances James did to require rhythm and hip action was Cha Cha and Rumba. Both done in the first half of the season. Basically meaning aside from Jive, James has done Jazz/Jitterbug/Ballroom every week since Week 6 as a solo dance.

Edited November 23, 2016 by PBGamer89

[photo fox]

Thanks, @PBGamer89.  It's too bad that they don't try to keep it more even.  I mean, it just opens the celebs and their partners up to criticism, which isn't really fair if they don't get any say.  (I thought the Latin we did see James do was fine, and maybe would have improved further - his other dances did - but we'll never know.)  But it's also not entirely fair if everyone doesn't have to perform the same types of dances.  :-/

[PBGamer89]

To my knowledge, of the typical, regular dances (Jitterbug and Charleston excluded) the top 3 missed doing the following dances: (in duet or group format)

Laurie: Rumba, Slow Waltz

James: Samba, Salsa, Contemporary, Slow Waltz

Calvin: Rumba, Samba, Contemporary

[RedFiat]

James did infuse contemporary into his Freestyle.  Contemporary isn't a ballroom style, not even a little .  Thank God Laurie didn't do a Rumba, she dances so hard it would have been a joke. 

3 hours ago, rr2911 said:

She should've deducted 2 or more points for the James stumble but didn't. In fact, Bruno gave him a ten.....ridiculous!  

WTF they deducted 3 points overall. That was a helluva lot of points gone for a long skirt. 

Edited November 23, 2016 by RedFiat

[PBGamer89]

3 minutes ago, RedFiat said:

James did infuse contemporary into his Freestyle.  Contemporary isn't a ballroom style, not even a little .  Thank God Laurie didn't do a Rumba, she dances so hard it would have been a joke. 

WTF they deducted 3 points overall. That was a helluva lot of points gone for a long skirt. 

Not as a solo and I was mentioning dances that are now regularly performed on the show. Once again, don't know why there's the "constant" need to bring up Laurie in every single comment. She didn't do Rumba because she's 16 dancing with someone who's 30.

The point was a judge gave it a 10 when the mistake was so obvious. 10 means perfect and perfect it wasn't.

[rr2911]

2 hours ago, Mondayeve said:

No matter who takes it tonight there will be upset.  Who knows, Calvin could take it and wouldn't that be the ultimate upset of the entire series??  Well, except for the Calvin fans.

I know it is part of watching contest reality shows where the public is allowed to vote but when I see James and Val hugging on the balcony,  Laurie and Val cheering James on, James saying Laurie he knows Laurie is an incredible dancer compared to himself and Peta posting both Laurie's and James' numbers for votes it makes me sad that the fans go at it the way they do.   I get the fans are passionate and invested so anything less than a win for your team is devastating.  But it gets ugly every year and it sort of sucks the joy out of it for me.  Maybe I am the only one who feels that way.   It is fun to hash it out, and listen to the different opinions so I need to adjust if I want to keep watching.

I plan on being happy for whoever wins because I think Laurie brings her bubbly youthful energy and athleticism and James brings his storytelling his teachability and grace on the dance floor.  

All 3 couples will have danced every dance and they will all be on GMA and have equal time.  I know a silver medal doesn't have the same impact as the gold...some of the most memorable celebs and dances have not been the winners but they did make finals. 

I think if it gets too heated the mods will step in. I haven't read anyone really going at it. The way I think of these reality shows is that they're in a fantasy world. A world we can step in and enjoy the dances and of course give our critiques. Most of us don't have no experience in ballroom dancing, I know I don't. Everything I say is what the judges have said what they look for. There was a season that Len Goodman explained to the viewer what they look for in each dance. That's the way I look at the show. I know it's not for everyone but it works for me. If Laurie doesn't win, sure I'll be disappointed but won't lose any sleep over it. It's just a show. After the show ends, it's back to reality.

[RedFiat]

Just now, PBGamer89 said:

Not as a solo and I was mentioning dances that are now regularly performed on the show. Once again, don't know why there's the "constant" need to bring up Laurie in every single comment. She didn't do Rumba because she's 16 dancing with someone who's 30.

The point was a judge gave it a 10 when the mistake was so obvious. 10 means perfect and perfect it wasn't.

It's Latin syllabus, she should do the Rumba, but the reason isn't because she's mismatched with her partner. It's because she doesn't dance with any grace.  The 10 was an acknowledgement of a great dance, not nitpicking on a skirt.

[crowceilidh]

It seems to me that there is always at least one contestant who doesn't do much Latin or doesn't do much ballroom.  I've been arguing on the boards since s3 and it is certainly NOT a new comment.  I used to be irritated by this, but at this point, meh.

I will be disappointed if Laurie wins I think.  I don't think I've liked one of her dances.  All the dances that emphasized her stompiness she was dressed and designed in a way that didn't seem authentic on her and all the dances where she was dressed authentically for her were annoying.  I love Val, but this partnership did NOTHING for me (and I hated the Val breakdown episode.  Been there, seen that.)  Most times, I don't have much of a horse in the race so it's interesting to me that this season, I already know who I do and do not want to win when so many people think they're all deserving.

[gimmeegimmeegim]

40 minutes ago, rr2911 said:

. If Laurie doesn't win, sure I'll be disappointed but won't lose any sleep over it.

If my fav doesn't win, my pup and I'll be up, pacing and sobbing, for months and months! ;)

Go you three!!

[smiley13]

To be honest, I have watched this season, but not with my usual level of interest since Mark Ballas was not appearing.  Of the three left, my preferred order would be Calvin 1st, Laurie 2nd and James 3rd.  

However, I think Laurie will be the winner.  Just as long as it is not Sharna, I will be okay.

[hoosier80]

I don't watch this normally (at relatives so kind of a captive watching last night and this night).  One reason I don't watch is the ooooh I've had it so hard and sickeningly sweet dances.  James seems like a nice guy, but damn that dance was like oh vote for me, I almost died.  Same with Jana's dance.  Loved Calvin's dance, and at least Laurie's dance wasn't the my sad sad saga and how I overcame drek.

All of the people are celebs already.  Not like they get discovered, they maybe extend their 15 minutes of fame or get enough publicity to get another job.  It's not like an unknown gets a recording contract or a contract to dance on Broadway.  I don't lose any sleep on who wins or loses, as it's a popularity contest for celebs (maybe C list at best, some former A listers, athletes wanting more publicity).

[McManda]

5 hours ago, Archery said:

(Also, in the music for James and Sharna's freestyle, there seemed to be an orchestrated pop song, before it moved into the more classical sound.  I can't think of the title -- did anyone recognize it?)

It was The Piano Guys version of OneRepublic's "Beethoven's Five Secrets". If you liked it I'd highly encourage you to check out The Piano Guys on Youtube ... they're really great. I love their mashup of Over The Rainbow/Simple Gifts and, for Christmas, their version of Carol of the Bells, but they have a lot of good covers.

5 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

Also, I'm pretty sure a similar effect was used in Derek and Nastia's Charleston.

And also in a Macy's Star's of Dance paso performance that Derek did ... (I've watched it more than I'd like to admit, because it's pretty awesome otherwise and well, Henry and Artem)... and I hated it there, too. They did the same thing, where they did the slo-mo effect and then all of a sudden they were positioned differently and I'm just like "what ... how did they get there?"

Quote

Somebody said that his freestyle reminded them of a high school recital.  I can see that since back then, teachers would choreograph numbers for girls around 14 years old that had voice overs. 

This might date me, and despite liking the dance and the voiceover effect I giggled because it made me think of the the performance art scene in "She's All That" ... "be silent, be still. be silent, be still". 

Edited November 23, 2016 by McManda

[mtlchick]

I'm fine with  Laurie winning, though Sharna needs a frickin' win.  She's the new Tony! 

[sinycalone]

Moved to proper thread.

Edited November 23, 2016 by sinycalone

[rr2911]

4 hours ago, crowceilidh said:

It seems to me that there is always at least one contestant who doesn't do much Latin or doesn't do much ballroom.  I've been arguing on the boards since s3 and it is certainly NOT a new comment.  I used to be irritated by this, but at this point, meh.

I will be disappointed if Laurie wins I think.  I don't think I've liked one of her dances.  All the dances that emphasized her stompiness she was dressed and designed in a way that didn't seem authentic on her and all the dances where she was dressed authentically for her were annoying.  I love Val, but this partnership did NOTHING for me (and I hated the Val breakdown episode.  Been there, seen that.)  Most times, I don't have much of a horse in the race so it's interesting to me that this season, I already know who I do and do not want to win when so many people think they're all deserving.

Well, guess what?  :)

1 hour ago, RedFiat said:

That felt like another Trump rigged election.   Thanks for cutting off the vote to Canada and pimpin' the child on the Tour. I won't be getting a ticket.  

What a great finale!

[rr2911]

Esta noche pertenece a Laurie Hernández!

Buenas noches!

[tessaforever]

16 hours ago, boyznkatz said:

OMG Gleb, that freestyle blew! They totally deserved to go last night.

 

16 hours ago, katha said:

Right?!? Like, I know he's been sick, so I'm trying to cut him some slack. But they've been pimping him hardcore all season (IMO him more than Jana tbh), yet I thought his choreography was questionable all season. And last night it was really, really obvious. Jana's dances stood out in a bad way compared to what the other three pros were delivering. I know they want to make him happen, I'm not sure I'm on board.

I think that Gleb froze under pressure and over-thought the freestyle. I mean, I wanted to see something new from them. I've already seen two angst-y contemporaries from Jana - year of your life week and the duet with Laurie. So there wasn't anything new there for me to see. The other 3 gave me something new, at least a new angle on their dancing skills. Jana is a much better dancer than the fabric dance would suggest. Far from "staying in her lane", I don't think it played to her strengths. 

9 hours ago, iMonrey said:

It sort of took me out of it for a moment because I was like "Wait, what? This is live, how did they do that?" 

You know what else bugged me? The way Val kept playing with Laurie's hair while he was standing behind her getting their scores/critiques. He kept grabbing it in his hands and scrunching it and pulling it. I wanted to yell at him to stop it.

They've used this effect before - the first I remember is a contemporary dance Derek did with Alison (before she was a pro) and a few others, called "Heart Cry". It really fit the dance and it was super cool. It's probably been done other times but that's the one I remember. I didn't mind them using it for Laurie, but it was jarring when she showed up in front of the stage a second later - having gone over there during the slo-mo effect. 

Val touches Laurie a LOT. And I know their relationship is a sweet big brother/little sister one, and I'm a Val fan. But it seems like an invasion of personal space to have that much touching and friendly kissing. Does Laurie get to run her hands through Val's hair anytime she wants? (Speaking of which, doesn't it look like Val finally got his hair cut? If so, hooray! It was driving me crazy). 

[Hiacios]

5 hours ago, RedFiat said:

It's Latin syllabus, she should do the Rumba, but the reason isn't because she's mismatched with her partner. It's because she doesn't dance with any grace.  The 10 was an acknowledgement of a great dance, not nitpicking on a skirt.

 

Exactly. let's not kid ourselves Laurie is not the best gymnast we've seen on DWTS so everything that she did well we saw other gymnasts e.g., Shawn Johnson do better.

[LennieBriscoe]

I don't think "embodying a character" is a criterion on this show. Dancing is.

[kiddo82]

10 hours ago, RedFiat said:

The 10 was an acknowledgement of a great dance, not nitpicking on a skirt.

Well then to be fair, it's not Jana's fault Gleb almost dropped her on her ass but it doesn't mean a stumble didn't happen.

Edited November 23, 2016 by kiddo82

[Archery]

8 hours ago, McManda said:

It was The Piano Guys version of OneRepublic's "Beethoven's Five Secrets". 

Thank you! It was the hook line from Secrets that I was hearing, but I couldn't call up the lyrics. It's literally been stuck in my head since Monday night.  Thank you!  I'm married, but I am so in love with you right now.  

[boyznkatz]

11 hours ago, RedFiat said:

That felt like another Trump rigged election.   Thanks for cutting off the vote to Canada and pimpin' the child on the Tour. I won't be getting a ticket.  

I can't say I understand why they cut off other countries from voting. You would think they would appreciate the extra publicity for the show. I'm not sure it would make a difference in the outcome, but they should let anyone who follows the show vote.

I don't think it would have made James win, though. He does race in the USA, right? It would be different if he were on a Canadian soap opera, or something. I definitely think William Levy was helped by international fans getting to vote online.

[realdancemom]

21 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Sometimes. But both times she did a Waltz with Calvin she had to include those moves where he drags her across the floor, and where he spins her around, and both of those moves made him look really clunky and stompy Even if he was performing those moves correctly (which I don't think he quite did), they look ungainly because he's just so damn big. It really broke the fluidity of the dance, so I wish she had just eliminated those elements from their "redemption" dance. They're not required elements in a Waltz.

I want to clarify that when I said that Lindsay choregraphs to her partner's strengths, I was referring to their freestyles.  The freestyles for both Alek and Calvin were very creative.  They were perfect for their personalities and dance abilities.  Alek wasn't even a good dancer but I enjoyed his freestyle.

[Andie1]

On Wednesday, November 23, 2016 at 10:20 AM, boyznkatz said:

don't think it would have made James win, though. He does race in the USA, right? It would be different if he were on a Canadian soap opera, or something. I definitely think William Levy was helped by international fans getting to vote online.

Except this doesn't make a lot of sense. William Levy came in third with help from international vote. And probably Katherine Jenkins got even more of a boost because she was British and there was heavy cross promotion with the BBC and Strictly Come Dancing.  James came in second with no help, just some fans who voted via VPN.

Edited November 24, 2016 by Andie1

[PBGamer89]

6 hours ago, Andie1 said:

Except this doesn't make a lot of sense. William Levy came in third with help from international vote. And probably Katherine Jenkins got even more of a boost because she was British and there was heavy cross promotion with the BBC and Strictly Come Dancing.  James came in second with no help, just some fans who voted via VPN.

Katherine got to second because she was an incredible dancer with a good personality. Any added help from VPN voting was bonus.

People act like international makes a huge dent. I really don't think it does.

[Andie1]

On 11/23/2016 at 4:07 AM, LennieBriscoe said:

I don't think "embodying a character" is a criterion on this show. Dancing is.

Boy it makes the dancing a lot more interesting. 

1 hour ago, PBGamer89 said:

Katherine got to second because she was an incredible dancer with a good personality. Any added help from VPN voting was bonus.

People act like international makes a huge dent. I really don't think it does.

Oh I think it does, especially when the finale ratings dipped by 25%.  A quarter of the audience gone from last season. The show must have thought it was worth the risk to block out the international viewers. Dropping the CTV feed probably accounts for at least a portion of those bad ratings, because Canadians were watching and voting in previous seasons.  Go Tommy Chong.   

Edited November 25, 2016 by Andie1

[McManda]

9 hours ago, Andie1 said:

Dropping the CTV feed probably accounts for at least a portion of those bad ratings, because Canadians were watching and voting in previous seasons.

Except as far as I know, international airings don't count toward ratings. At least not Neilsen ratings, and those are the only ones that matter. 

The only thing international airings would do is boost votes and really, ABC mostly doesn't care who ultimately wins as long as they can craft a story around it. 

[truthaboutluv]

This. Ratings are measured by Nielsen boxes. Personally I think ratings were down because this season was boring as hell but that's just me. 

[truthaboutluv]

No idea why this was a double post.

Edited November 25, 2016 by truthaboutluv

[vibeology]

21 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

This. Ratings are measured by Nielsen boxes. Personally I think ratings were down because this season was boring as hell but that's just me. 

Ratings were down this season because ratings are down everywhere. NFL Football is getting it's lowest ratings in years suddenly and while people are trying to blame it on the Thursday and Monday matchups, that still doesn't account for Sunday. People just have more TV options and don't watch things live or through traditional paths anymore. If this show has a big get, they might get a small spike in the ratings next season, but I expect to see them either stay at this level or drop some more. It's been 23 seasons. Shows don't maintain their ratings forever especially when there are other ways to watch.

I haven't watched DWTS live in years. It's not even the commercials that really bother me, it's the filler. The amount of talk coming from the judges table is killer. I normally start the show about 45 minutes after it starts and sometimes if I get close to catching up, I'll sit through a commercial break so I can skip the judging. But I don't matter one way or another because, as has been mentioned, only US viewers count towards Neilsen ratings and I'm Canadian.

[Andie1]

1 hour ago, vibeology said:

only US viewers count towards Neilsen ratings and I'm Canadian.

But since the days of diaries, Neilsen now also takes into consideration those markets where digital spill in occurs.    4 markets are close enough to receive signals via antenna: Buffalo > Toronto, Seattle > Vancouver, Burlington/Plattsburgh > Montreal, and Detroit > Windsor  but if you are in say Oakville near Toronto and can digitally get the Detroit station,  Neilsen takes "spill in" into consideration when they are compiling the data.  

It's a very small audience to be sure because the show dropped the real time feed to Canada through the traditional method, but some could still watch through digital cable. 

Ratings maybe down everywhere but a 25% drop is significant.  The show was boring Personally I think it's because the show is still trying to ramrod children to cross promote Disney and all their expensive crap. That Christmas theme was a yawn, but it appealed to Laurie and younger kids of her maturity level. 

Edited November 25, 2016 by Andie1

[vibeology]

12 minutes ago, Andie1 said:

Ratings maybe down everywhere but a 25% drop is significant.  The show was boring Personally I think it's because the show is still trying to ramrod children to cross promote Disney and all their expensive crap. That Christmas theme was a yawn, but it appealed to Laurie and younger kids of her maturity level. 

How is Laurie a Disney kid and what did the show do differently this year to promote Disney that it hasn't done in years past? We didn't have a Disney Week this season. What have they done to appeal to children that hasn't been done in the past? Contestants under the age of 18 has become normal on this show. Laurie wasn't new. We've had Shawn, Zendaya, Sadie, Willow, Hayes, Bindi and now Laurie. Ratings didn't drop after all those other minors competed. In addition, there have been seasons that have featured far more children dancing than anything we saw this season or in the finale. I still remember the Kids Contest they ran that one year during the results show and my very first glimpse at Brittany Cherry. The show also did a similar Holiday Themed Finale last November. That wasn't done to suddenly get kid viewers. Nothing fundamentally has changed with the show. The issue is that old shows will lose viewers over time. The Voice doesn't get the ratings it once did. American Idol ended with much lower numbers than its peak. Even if you take all the external stuff out of it, aging shows trend down in ratings.

It's a big drop in ratings but this is the new normal in TV. Netflix reported 3.6 million new subscribers in the 3rd quarter. Football has dropped 11%. The Walking Dead, one of the few shows to grow its audience into its run, is now bleeding viewers worse than if you took a baseball bat to its head. (Seriously, it lost 25% of its viewers between the first and second episode of this season and is still dropping viewers.) Every major network except NBC has overall ratings declines in the double digits.

This show isn't perfect, but to blame the ratings drop on Laurie and an appeal to kids which is unfounded sounds mostly like sour grapes.

[Andie1]

Ratings dropped because the kid was pre-ordained to win and the show did whatever it did to ensure it. Disney has always been a part of this show. The kids are never going to be part of the demo they want, but they keep trying. Last year Bindi got international votes. This year they made sure at least one other team had no fan base. 25% is a huge drop. That's why the Hough sibblings are hosting a big old Disney crap fest. They think they are going to get their return. Bigger than most of the long term shows that have been on.  The Walking Dead is a stupid show with a stupid premise.   Idiotic shows don't go on forever   

But this show has to decide once and for all if its going to continue it's pathetic appeal to minors or is it going to do bathroom and bedroom scenes. Because they are alienating a lot of people in the process.  I won't be watching or buying a ticket to basically Disney DWTS.  I can go see a cheezy ice skating show if I want to do that.   

Edited November 25, 2016 by Andie1

[vibeology]

54 minutes ago, Andie1 said:

Ratings dropped because the kid was pre-ordained to win and the show did whatever it did to ensure it. Disney has always been a part of this show. The kids are never going to be part of the demo they want, but they keep trying. Last year Bindi got international votes. This year they made sure at least one other team had no fan base. 25% is a huge drop. That's why the Hough sibblings are hosting a big old Disney crap fest. They think they are going to get their return. Bigger than most of the long term shows that have been on.  The Walking Dead is a stupid show with a stupid premise.   Idiotic shows don't go on forever      

I'm sorry, but maybe I'm not understanding your point since you're hopping around a bit, but I was responding to the idea that somehow Laurie (not the kid, that's needlessly dismissive of someone who has been shown to work hard. She can't control her age.) is responsible for the show losing 25% of it's ratings. You said the problem was Laurie and cross promoting with Disney. Now you're saying Disney has always been a part of the show, which I agreed with. I don't understand how Disney can be part of a sudden ratings drop if, as you acknowledge, Disney has always been a part of the show. Or appealing to a young audience has always been a part of the show. If those things had always been there, why would they suddenly cause viewership to drop?

Nor do I understand what a Disney special hosted by the Houghs has to do with the ratings drop for this season. Both Julianne and Derek were a part of the show this year. Both have pretty consistently been a part of past seasons with different ratings.

And the quality of the Walking Dead doesn't matter when we're talking numbers. I was using it as an example of a show that was only recently killing it in the ratings taking a very similar dive to DWTS to point out that while the product plays a part, TV ratings are down everywhere so you can't look at the dip here and say it's solely because of something happening this season. A big part of the slide comes from external factors and would have happened no matter what actually transpired on the show this year. That was my point.

The Finale, as a episode, followed a very similar pattern as other recent finales. Sure, there would be some people who didn't watch because they don't like these specific contestants, but that would be true every year. I think ratings were down because ratings are down everywhere and a show like DWTS where you can easily watch the dances online is particularly susceptible to a ratings loss.

[birkenstock]

Yes there was a big drop from last Fall, but I don't think it was because of Laurie being a front runner or a Christmas-themed finale.  Bindi's win last Fall was more certain than Laurie's win this year.  Last Fall's Finale was also at the Grove and Christmas-themed - this year's finale pretty much followed the same formula.  Maybe it was that this season was boring, there were more options, the show needs to reevaluate production, or there were other external factors.  Bindi may have been the emotional draw, Alek because people were rooting for the patriotic underdog, or there were BSB fans who tuned in.  Hough fans may have also boosted ratings.  It could have been that other than Laurie, the finalists this season weren't household names that would draw in viewers who don't usually watch the show.  This season's finale wasn't that far off from the Spring finale, in terms of viewers, and its share was actually .2 higher on the second night.  In terms of audience numbers, it's still big draw.

YMMV but I enjoyed a drama-free season.  I liked that the contestants were actually open to the process, had talent, and the finalists each had solid relationships with their pros.  I would have been happy if any of the finalists won.  Each had their strengths and weaknesses.  Calvin and Lindsay were my favorite couple and the ones I enjoyed watching each week.  I know he wasn't the best dancer, I'm just glad he made it to the end.  I loved James as a person, he's funny and has charisma for miles, but was never invested in his dancing for some reason that I don't know.  I would have been happy for him and ecstatic for Sharna if they did win. Laurie was also great and deserved to win, but I watched for Calvin. 

We can only guess whether the Canadian vote would have boosted James.  Canadian viewers could have still favored Laurie. I'm wondeingr if Calvin would have had a better shot at winning.  Detroit is close to Toronto and he could have won depending on the number of Torontonian Lions' fans who also watched DWTS.    *Ok, I actually google mapped how far Toronto is from Detroit and it's far, but there may be some Canadian Calvin Johnson fans or it's just wishful thinking.

Edited November 25, 2016 by birkenstock

[vibeology]

26 minutes ago, birkenstock said:

We can only guess whether the Canadian vote would have boosted James.  Canadian viewers could have still favored Laurie. I'm wondeingr if Calvin would have had a better shot at winning.  Detroit is close to Toronto and he could have won depending on the number of Torontonian Lions' fans who also watched DWTS.    *Ok, I actually google mapped how far Toronto is from Detroit and it's far, but there may be some Canadian Calvin Johnson fans or it's just wishful thinking.

Winsor is literally right there so I'm sure there would have been some who'd watched him play for years and voted out of loyalty. That's sort of why I bristle at the idea that closing down Canadian voting was done to hurt James. Canadians don't vote in blocks blindly for other Canadians. I know that because Pamela Anderson wasn't getting millions of Canadian votes either time she was on the show. In fact she went home first on All-Stars.

Calvin probably would have benefitted from Southwestern Ontario being more familiar with him because of how close Detroit is. Plus he is a charming guy who won many people over in general and his Freestyle was strong. Laurie would have appealed to voters who lean towards gymnastics, or who prefer to vote for women or Val fans or people who just liked her. James would have gotten some people who vote for him because he's Canadian and some racecar fans and people from Oakville and the GTA as a whole and his share of people who just liked him, but I tend to think the split between Canadian viewers would probably line up much like the split between American viewers. 

I like James, but its not like he's a household name in Canada. He competes in a niche sport and is mildly successful in that sport. It's not like if Wayne Gretzky or Mario Lemieux competed and Canada couldn't vote.

[sinycalone]

I suspect all of the factors listed caused a drop:  ratings have declined a lot overall across the board, trying to appeal to a younger demographic isn't working (but I can't really blame DWTS for attempting to do this), a winner some saw as pre-ordained, no contestant who drew viewers just for the train-wreck factor,  Mark missing the season etc.

We'll never know if closing off the Canadian vote really would have effected the results...but it still seems odd that they opened up voting for Oz in Bindi's season, but did not do the same for Canada.  Ideally, the voting should be open to everyone who can watch the show each week (live or delayed)...whether Canada, Australia, Mexico, UK, etc.  I believe that was the case for certain seasons.

Personally, I enjoyed just about every contestant this year, and their partners.  Seeing quite a few them really improve and develop as dancers -- after much hard work -- was certainly rewarding for them and the audience.  The result was three contestants in the finals who definitely deserved to be there.  Of course, I was disappointed that James/Sharna lost...but have been happy with the way DWTS has shown them love since the finale.  Can't ask for much more.  (Some great tweets and videos.)

[realdancemom]

Can people from Australia watch this show?  I was just wondering if the producers closed off voting for Canada because of Bindi's situation.  If a large amount of votes for Bindi came from Australia and they can't even see the show, then I can see why the producers wouldn't like that.  Maybe, the producers chose to close off voting from Canada since that one station decided to show The Voice instead.

[Cindyluwho]

This Canadian had never heard of James. I would have voted for Laurie.

[crowceilidh]

I think if Canadian voting had been open, James (I've never heard of ANY of them - okay, well Vanilla Ice, yes) might have played it a little differently and I might have switched allegiances to him.  He is very charming and all he would have to do is mix that with some maple syrup which he didn't bother to do because it wouldn't play to the voting public....  I was for Calvin, but if I could've voted I might have been moved to split my vote because I didn't think Laurie was the best choice for winner.

ETA:  Oh yeah, Marilu Henner - I sure do forget everyone below the top 4 in the 2 weeks after finale.

Edited November 26, 2016 by crowceilidh
finale-induced amnesia

[Andie1]

Quote

Calvin probably would have benefitted from Southwestern Ontario being more familiar with him because of how close Detroit is

Except  Detroit cared  as much about Calvin as the Miami Dolphins cared about Jason Taylor, which was not much, so doubtful that Windsor would give much attention either.

On 11/21/2016 at 11:29 PM, PBGamer89 said:

No one else doing Rumba isn't anyone's fault either and imagine if they gave it to Laurie and all would've complained that they had a 16 year old Rumba with Va

Except Shawn Johnson did a sexy Rumba when she was on the show in season 8 and nobody cared. Now they care because of the infantile cross promo with Disney and Dancing with Minnie Mouse.and Donald Duck 

 

 

On 11/21/2016 at 11:29 PM, PBGamer89 said:

 

Edited November 26, 2016 by Andie1

[Andie1]

4 hours ago, realdancemom said:

Can people from Australia watch this show?  I was just wondering if the producers closed off voting for Canada because of Bindi's situation.  If a large amount of votes for Bindi came from Australia and they can't even see the show, then I can see why the producers wouldn't like that.  Maybe, the producers chose to close off voting from Canada since that one station decided to show The Voice instead.

They are in a different time zone, if they watched it would have been noon the next day.  They did the on-line vote and probably did not see much.  But the reason they wanted the Aussies involved is because of the  Zoo run by Steve Irwins family was going Disney. 

[Andie1]

On 11/24/2016 at 10:13 PM, PBGamer89 said:

Katherine got to second because she was an incredible dancer with a good personality. Any added help from VPN voting was bonus.

It didn't hurt that she was heavily cross promoted with the BBC and Strictly fans watched for her on DWTS.  I just remember her  meltdown, other than that, not in my top 10.

[McManda]

59 minutes ago, Andie1 said:

Except  Detroit cared  as much about Calvin as the Miami Dolphins cared about Jason Taylor, which was not much, so doubtful that Windsor would give much attention either.

Not true. It became watercooler gossip at the very least. I'm in the area and people all over were talking about how Calvin was doing the show and if he was still on. It made the nightly news on a pretty regular basis. (Calvin Johnson is somewhat of a local hero, mostly because he was classy and stayed with a crappy Lions team when he could have had a better, more lucrative career elsewhere.) It's just that that interest doesn't particularly transfer into votes.

I'm actually willing to bet that if you looked at the numbers and voting trends they'll have gone down more sharply than viewership. I used to vote ardently, back when I particularly cared who won. Now even though I still watch the show weekly, I'll maybe vote half-assedly if there's someone particular is like to see the following week. 

That said, it's highly unlikely anyone in Ontario cares even a little about the Lions or Calvin Johnson.

Quote

Except Shawn Johnson did a sexy Rumba when she was on the show in season 8 and nobody cared. Now they care because of the infantile cross promo with Disney and Dancing with Minnie Mouse.and Donald Duck [/quote]

I wouldn't call Shawn's first rumba sexy. Mark made a concentrated effort to make it "young, and fun and age appropriate" because she was 17. Other comments called it PG-13. People were wary of the idea at the time and it had nothing to do with any Disney cross promotion or lack thereof and everything to do with her age. Mark was very aware of the fact people would be up in arms if he went full on sexy because she was 17. 

Source: 

 

 

Edited November 26, 2016 by McManda
Formatting on mobile is hard ... excuse the mis-formatted quote

[Andie1]

7 hours ago, vibeology said:

Winsor is literally right there so I'm sure there would have been some who'd watched him play for years and voted out of loyalty.

Canadians would only get the station if it were broadcast on satellite.  Otherwise they have to have a digital cable to access the feed.  And the city name is Windsor, like the Castle.   

 

7 hours ago, vibeology said:

. I know that because Pamela Anderson wasn't getting millions of Canadian votes either time she was on the show. In fact she went home first on All-Stars

That is really unfortunate that James is even compared to Pam Anderson.  Of course Canadians just like other nationalities are a discerning people and can tell good from bad dancing.  People can dance around the obvious all they want, but the fact is they invited an Indy driver on to the show, who was convinced to come on the show by another Indy driver who won in part because the vote was open to Brazil his native country.  We know this because Helio's parents were on via satellite, he was emotional to see them on screen they told him they were voting for him and loved him.  Now James initally talked about being a Canadian and watching hockey in between the curtain calls on the show. But he  dropped mentions when the show decided that Canadians couldn't vote.  On facebook just before the finale he told fans he was trying to get the show to open up the voting from Canada since every second post on his messages were from Canadians upset they couldn't vote.  But we all know that did not happen. 

[Andie1]

40 minutes ago, McManda said:

 

 

40 minutes ago, McManda said:

 

 

40 minutes ago, McManda said:

 

 

40 minutes ago, McManda said:

 

 

40 minutes ago, McManda said:

 

Did you watch the Rumba? It was sexy.  As sexy as pretty much most of the Rumbas on this show. Mark had his hand on her hip, there was a deep dip of long looks into each others eyes.  It was far more sexy than a routine you would get in a Rumba class, it had to show sexuality and it did.  The music was Slow Dancing in a Burning Room... that is an incredibly sexy song as well.  They could have danced to When You Wish Upon A Star, but Laurie wasn't going to be on the show for another 8 years.  In fact, it was more sexy than the idiotic Titanic dance that was not a Rumba during the All Stars when she was of age.   And the clip you provided they didn't believe for one second it was pg13,  She laughed when she heard that. Shawn said all her friends would be jealous of her dancing like that with Mark because they all had crushes on him and would be texting like crazy about it.  That kind of reaction from teenage girls ain't pg 13.  

Edited November 26, 2016 by Andie1