S12.E03: The Foundry

[Tara Ariano]

Quote

When a crying baby leads to death in a mysterious abandoned house, Mary, Sam and Dean decide to investigate. Meanwhile, Castiel's hunt for Lucifer leads him to begrudgingly partner with Crowley.

[catrox14]

[Morrigan2575]

Damnit, I've got something in my eye ??

Wow that ending killed me. I felt so bad for Mary and then Jensen/Dean just flinched when Mary said she was leaving. I can't even describe it but, it was heartbreaking. Poor Dean. ?

Loved the case, it was creepy and had all the aspects of a good old fashion ghost case. 

The Adventures of Agent Beyonce and Jay Z were a hoot. I loved seeing those two together. Mark/Misha have great chemistry together and nice comic timing. This is what I've wanted for years, no boring Angel storylines, no boring King of Hell storylines. Just put Crowley and Cas on a road trip, only thing missing was Queen's Greatest Hits.

Edited October 28, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[Jediknight]

Rowena's free, and she wants to be there when Lucifer is cornered, so she'll be back.  Here's hoping Rowena and Mary cross paths, join up, take road trips, and form the Mega Coven.  Yeah, I'm still hoping that Rowena forms the Mega Coven, and with how she's been, she'll use the Mega Coven to protect people.

Cas really needs to work on the aliases.

[nara]

I am so tired of people leaving Dean! All I'm saying is he'd better have a happy ending by the series finale. I get that Mary had to mourn her old life, but Dean has been mourning her for over 30 years! This is worse than if she had remained dead.

Good story this episode. I like that Mary's maternal instincts were right on and she's fearless.  Plus, I like her haircut.

[Morrigan2575]

Thank you for the reminder! I loved Mary's haircut but, at the same time I found myself a bit distracted because she reminded me if Charlie. 

[nara]

9 minutes ago, Jediknight said:

Cas really needs to work on the aliases.

Reminds me of The Hitchhiker's Guide when an alien thought that Ford Prefect (the name of a very popular car) was a common and inconspicuous human name to pick for himself. 

Edited October 28, 2016 by nara
Typo

[catrox14]

So wait, a stinking minute. Are they trying to tell me that all Rowena had to do was find a spell to blast Lucifer far, far away, and she never DID IT WHEN HE WAS inside Cas?  When she could have? Did I miss something here?

Did Mary take John's journal with her?  Cause if she did that's gonna be a big problem for the boys.

So Mary was in Heaven with John all along? That's new.

This is so cruel to Dean. Fuck you, Amara for ever bringing her back.  :(. 

[2Old2BAFangirl]

Dean's little step back from Mary at the end was heartbreaking.  Poor Winchesters.

But...I'm not sorry that Mary needs to go away for a bit.  I'm keeping an open mind about her being around and hunting with the boys but seeing Sam in the backseat and Mary going off on her own did annoy me a little.  A break for an episode will be good, IMO. 

Cas and Crowley were fun!  Agent Beyoncé - LOL

[MysteryGuest]

I didn't quite catch what Mary was saying about being in heaven.  I don't think she was with John, but she mentioned being with baby Sam and little boy Dean?  So in her heaven I guess she's with her small children, even though they're still living?  I'm going to need to have that clarified.

My heart broke for Dean.  He looked so rejected at the end.  He's done nothing but think about his mother for 30 years, and she somehow comes back and within a few weeks, she rejects him.  I know that's not what she did from her perspective, and I get that she needs time, but Dean was crushed.  Did the writers really need to bring her back just to make Dean feel even worse about himself?  That sucks.

[rue721]

4 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

I didn't quite catch what Mary was saying about being in heaven.  I don't think she was with John, but she mentioned being with baby Sam and little boy Dean?  So in her heaven I guess she's with her small children, even though they're still living?  I'm going to need to have that clarified.

I think the idea is that in heaven, you are reliving your happiest/favorite memories. So she was with memory!Sam and memory!Dean. They exist in her heaven because they exist in her memory.

I think she was saying that John was in her heaven, too (when she was saying that it was a big change to have John gone)? It sounded to me like her heaven was memories of being with her family, including John?

[Wynne88]

I can't believe that neither one of them asked where she was going.  Or how she was going to get there.  Or how she was going to afford to eat.  Or made sure she had a phone with their numbers.   She doesn't exactly have current life skills.  

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, Wynne88 said:

I can't believe that neither one of them asked where she was going.  Or how she was going to get there.  Or how she was going to afford to eat.  Or made sure she had a phone with their numbers.   She doesn't exactly have current life skills.  

She had enough life skills to go off and hunt on her own.  It seemed to me she did not want them coming after her. She had her bag packed and ready to go.  I want to know is how far she thinks she's gonna get when she's a hour from anything. Is she going to take one of the cars in the garage? I mean it's not like the bunker is particularly close to town.

[Commando Cody]

That ending almost made me cry. That step back that Dean took when Mary was leaving. He just looked so crushed. 

I thought this was very reminiscent of early Supernatural. A good old fashioned ghost hunt. 

I never liked Rowena, but I think we have progressed enough where maybe her character now has some value. I don't necessarily need to see her dead right now. 

I loved the Partridge Family reference. Looking at the coroner, he probably was too young to know about any of it. 

An angel and a demon walked out of a bar...

[Jediknight]

9 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

She had her bag packed and ready to go.

At least she didn't have to think about waking them up to say goodbye, although she is taking the wrong form of transportation.

[catrox14]

Just now, Jediknight said:

At least she didn't have to think about waking them up to say goodbye, although she is taking the wrong form of transportation.

Not a word of lie, as soon as I typed it that song popped in my head. LOL

[companionenvy]

Oh, my heart. Dean just killed me at the end, there.

I think the show made Mary about as sympathetic as it could have, given the circumstances. I mean, I'm still really angry at her, but I can understand her choice. But yeah, there better be some positive closure to that relationship, whenever Mary leaves the series for good. 

[Ninamags]

WTF, show!!?

So you bring their mom back only to have her leave? Really? Dean was crushed. 

My only concern is for the brothers. Apparently dear ol' mom can't muster the same concern. This was stupid. I get that Smith wasn't going to be in every episode but damn, that's harsh. 

Called her haircut after the first episode ??

 

So no more Rick? That's too bad. I like him. He's still in fantastic shape. 

Ugh, I feel all frustrated and angry. 

Actually I feel exactly like I did after Sunday's gore-fest courtesy of Papa Winchester. 

Anxious and unsettled. ?? can't really find a word for it, actually. 

Edited October 28, 2016 by Ninamags

[rue721]

Heartbreaking episode. Good, but heartbreaking.

I actually really liked the ghost story. The special effects were pretty cheesy, but at the same time, that nasty doll baby really did make me shiver. The yuppies in the beginning of the episode also kind of cracked me up.

Anyway, I understand why Mary needed some time to herself. She also doesn't really understand how her death (and the last 33 years) impacted her family, so I don't know that she really understands how her leaving them now will effect them, either. Also, on this show, the season's opening arc is always three episodes long. So I should have seen it coming. But I really didn't. I'm bummed.

Wow, I felt bad for Sam and Dean, though. I liked that Sam made her really say what she was doing, he didn't let her just hint and "let them down gently." I don't even know what Dean was feeling, honestly.

I have this thing that, if I'm in an upsetting situation, or even just a very emotional situation, this little switch inside me goes *flick* and suddenly, I'm disengaged. It's like I'm suddenly very far away, watching everything through a telescope. And it can actually be a PITA, because I can't control it. Do any of you guys have that, too? Anyway, so that's what happened to me at the end of this episode. My heart just noped out of there!

It was just too sad to see Sam and Dean freaking out while Mary told them she was leaving them. I mean, they'll be fine. But jeez. They looked like they were falling apart.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

31 minutes ago, rue721 said:

It was just too sad to see Sam and Dean freaking out while Mary told them she was leaving them. I mean, they'll be fine. But jeez. They looked like they were falling apart.

Not taking anyone's side, but they absolutely miraculously somehow get their mom back after 33 years and then like a week later she tells them that they don't feel like her boys to her and says c'ya.  That's gonna leave a mark.

[Binns]

Jensen killed it at the end. I legit teared up for Dean. The step back, the quivering lip, the clear feelings of rejection. Really well done. 

I wasn't down with Sam in the backseat and sort of the "outsider" with the cool kids up front. I like the idea of Mary, but at the end of the day I'm in this for the brothers and their relationship. So I'm happy for the break, if a little concerned that Mary has no 2016 skills. 

Isn't John in heaven? And they were together a la Jimmy and Amelia?

@catrox14 it looked to me like Mary gave Sam the journal at the end. He's the one who gave it to her to read. 

I really enjoyed the case. Creepy and atmospheric. Very season 1-2. 

[catrox14]

Thanks @Binns it wasn't clear to me!

[catrox14]

Man, Dean has had to endure both his parents being possessed and trying to kill him. That's gotta fuck his head on some level.  Especially when Mary was kind of his happy place at times. 

I want to know why they focused on the motorcycle. That can't have been for nothing. Especially since Dean has never really shown a HUGE interest in motorcycles.

My theories

-- Foreshadowing a Charlie return because Dorothy of Dorothy's motorcycle or even Dorothy coming back.

-- Foreshadowing Dean going off on his own for awhile. But that might be me remembering Jensen's dream about Sam dying and trading the Impala to someone for a motorcycle since he didn't need the Impala anymore.

[catrox14]

@Binns I rewatched that scene. Mary did have the journal. She kept it in her hand and put in the bag. That's gonna be a problem later IMO.  I don't like that at all.

[SueB]

Just watched (on the left coast this week).  I thought she took the journal and put it in her bag.

I'm really torn.  First off, it was a good episode.  But I'm torn about how to feel. On the one hand, I'm just gutted for the boys.  OTOH, it's like Buffy (from Buffy the Vampire Slayer for those who don't immediately recognize the reference) when she came back.  Mary was in HEAVEN and happy.  She had her dream John and dream Sam and Dean.  I don't think it was the real John or she would have known about hunting.  It was her happy place.  So, coming back to the cold light of day is just hard.  And I can see how she can't just "shake off" heaven and enjoy her live boys.  She's mourning the loss of her perfect happiness. 

But I feel so BAD for Sam and Dean.  Especially Dean.  Sam knew something was up with Mary. But Dean has to feel like he doesn't measure up to the sweet little boy he was.  The boy she is mourning.  He's not good enough (in his mind).  I don't blame him one jot for stepping back. Sometimes when you hurt, you hurt so bad you can't be touched.  That's how Dean felt to me.  He's not rejecting Mary, he's just not able to take the pain of her touching him.

Excellent work by all three actors tonight.

Interesting that Rowena is actually feeling remorse for letting Lucifer out and is prepared to help put him back.  I'm thinking her brief stint with God did her some good.  I thought Rick Springfield did a good job, but I think he would have gotten old.  I'm ready for Lucifer to be felt but not seen for a bit.  I'm ready for MOTW.

I don't know... I just need to go lie down and cry for Sam and Dean (but mostly Dean). It's not that Sam isn't feeling a huge loss, but Sam doesn't feel like he feels rejected. Dean feels rejected. And maybe he's feeling some horror at the thought that to make him (Dean) happy, Amara took his mother out of heaven and now she's unhappy.  I'm not sure exactly where his head is at (and I'm not sure he knows just yet either).  I'm betting Dean puts a moratorium on talking about her.  I could be wrong, but Dean shut down awfully fast.  I think it's just too painful for him.  I think Sam will respect that.

I have empathy for Mary, but right now I want her to find Carver Edlunds' books and read about her boys.  They are BDH, not mouth-breathing louts.  She needs to fall in love with them.  

Good episode.  I'm in a ton of pain here. Must be #Supernatural.

[enaiowen]

Agree SueB.  But that is what I have always loved about this show.  It wasn't pretty and it hurt, more than anything on this show has in a long time.  But it also felt very real and I do understand where she's coming from.

She doesn't know these men at all.  

They are her children.  They are also 30 something rough and tumble strangers.  So yes.  There is going to be a serious disconnect there and it's going to take time to sort through.  I don't think she meant to be cruel.  She was just trying to keep herself from going under.

And as much as it hurt, I'm glad Mary had the decency to be honest about what she was feeling and why she needed to leave instead of sneaking off into the night.

Edited October 28, 2016 by enaiowen

[SueB]

2 hours ago, enaiowen said:

And as much as it hurt, I'm glad Mary had the decency to be honest about what she was feeling and why she needed to leave instead of sneaking off into the night.

Excellen point. And Sam knew something big was brewing.  I like that detail.  It really didn't come out of nowhere. 

BTW does anyone else have that damn Target song as an earwig after hearing it so many times tonight?  Just me then?

[SueB]

4 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I want to know why they focused on the motorcycle. That can't have been for nothing. Especially since Dean has never really shown a HUGE interest in motorcycles.

I'll bet money it's a classic British Triumph Bonneville motorcycle.  Mr. Ketch is on their trail.

See sample below.

Ignore the fancy paint job. 

Mick Lady... if you're lurking, can you confirm ID of bike (or maybe Mick)?  Don't you ride?

Edited October 28, 2016 by SueB

[mertensia]

Mary needs to be gone right now for her own sanity. A quiet place for her to absorb everything. To come to terms with everything. Personally I suggest a chair under an umbrella in Fiji for her but more realistically spending time with either Jodie or Donna might have been wiser. 

Dean is just shattered by this, though, though Sam saw this coming.

I loved the honestly flummoxed coroner asking how he's going to explain the deaths. 

[Morrigan2575]

A couple of more things I forgot. I really enjoyed Rick Springfield as Lucifer in this episode, he actually seemed more menacing then previous incarnations.  

I don't like Rowena so I'm glad she's going to be reduced in episodes and just pulled in from time to time.

I interpreted Mary's comment about heaven being her heaven. Not that Dead John was with her but, that in her heaven she was with her family as she remembered them, and happy. Although I remember Ash mentioning that soulmates can share a heaven so it's possible that Dead Mary and Dead John were in heaven together with their little boys before the bad stuff happened.

[mertensia]

Oh, yeah, Rick Springfield killed it as Lucifer. Casting did a great job.

[Demented Daisy]

Like Sam's speech in The Purge, I understand where the character is coming from, but they could have written that so much better.  I know it's not how they intended it to sound, but that speech almost blamed Sam and Dean for not being the little boys Mary knew.  For them not having the life she knew.  I wish they had written it in a way that Sam and Dean suggested she leave -- that they understood what she needed and she needed to go.  That they would be there, waiting, when she needed to come back.  Instead, it's just another case of everyone Dean loves leaves him.  I wish they hadn't gone back to that well. 

I hope we don't have another season of the conflict coming from the Winchesters themselves.  I really love it when they work together against an outside force.  It's so much more fun to watch.  I tire of seeing the emotional pain, no matter how well the actors play it.

On a marginally less frustrating note, Sam and Dean not paying attention to Mary (during the hunt) reminded me of my daughter's friends who believe that because they have the internet, they know more than their parents.  

 

10 hours ago, Jediknight said:

Here's hoping Rowena and Mary cross paths, join up, take road trips, and form the Mega Coven.

I suggested something similar in the spoiler thread, except Jodi and Donna join them.  That's a series I'd watch.  

 

10 hours ago, catrox14 said:

So wait, a stinking minute. Are they trying to tell me that all Rowena had to do was find a spell to blast Lucifer far, far away, and she never DID IT WHEN HE WAS inside Cas?  When she could have? Did I miss something here?

I think it was similar to the angel banishing spell.  So if she had done it when Lucifer was possessing Cas, it would have sent both away.  

Which reminds me -- did Crowley call Castiel "Cassie"?  Please, show, no.  I have problems with you guys calling him "Cass" as it is.  ;-)

 

10 hours ago, Wynne88 said:

I can't believe that neither one of them asked where she was going.  Or how she was going to get there.  Or how she was going to afford to eat.  Or made sure she had a phone with their numbers.   She doesn't exactly have current life skills.  

It's their MO -- they did the same thing with Kate and Claire.  And, in a roundabout way, Krissy and her brood.

Edited October 28, 2016 by Demented Daisy

[Boopsahoy]

3 hours ago, SueB said:

I'll bet money it's a classic British Triumph Bonneville motorcycle.  Mr. Ketch is on their trail.

See sample below.

Ignore the fancy paint job. 

Mick Lady... if you're lurking, can you confirm ID of bike (or maybe Mick)?  Don't you ride?

All I could think of is that Jensen at one of the cons had said he once thought the best ending would be Dean driving a motorcycle into the sunset. I can't remember the details-I will have to try to find the quote.

[Aeryn13]

The final scene was well-acted but the dialogue was badly done. And Mary going "I love you...I love you both" was very disingenuous. She just told them that the problem was basically that she CAN`T love them as they are now. She wants a four-year-old and a baby and their present-day-versions not only don`t do it for her, they make it worse. So at least be honest enough to continue making that distinction, you love the memories in your head but can`t force yourself to love the men they are now. You didn`t care too much about sugar-coating it in your speech, Mary, so I don`t buy the nicety. And that`s all it was. 

And there went Dean`d last happy place. I doubt he is gonna portray the family photos anymore.

I knew Mary being back would just be weird but couldn`t they have found a bit better way to kick her out the door for the upcoming MOTW. Who am I kidding, in 7 years, they have not found a good way to do the revolving door with Cas so why would they with Mary.   

[mertensia]

Basically 7 days ago Sam was still breastfeeding as far as Mary's mind, memories, etc. are concerned. I'd be more worried if she was peachy-keen fine. It feels real, and heart-breaking and, in my view, that's how this should be.

[KirkB]

11 hours ago, catrox14 said:

So wait, a stinking minute. Are they trying to tell me that all Rowena had to do was find a spell to blast Lucifer far, far away, and she never DID IT WHEN HE WAS inside Cas?  When she could have? Did I miss something here?

She had to paint all that stuff on Lucifer's chest (which he never would have stood by and let her do while he was in Cas) and cast the spell that would speed up the destruction of his host (which, again, wouldn't have been an issue since Jimmy's body is obviously designed to hold angels) to weaken him enough for her to be able to blast him away. Lucifer in Cas was much too strong for that.

[Demented Daisy]

Oh, and was that sarcasm from Cas?  When he was talking about Crowley's reason for hunting Lucifer?  That was... odd.  Took me out of the episode for a second.  It sounded like he was still being possessed by Lucifer.

[goldy]

I don't know how I feel about this episode. I didn't hate it but it wasn't as good for me as the last two episodes. It also felt kind of slow and the ghost storyline was unexciting. I get why they went with the storyline though, it fits with what Mary was going through; She get possessed by a man that went crazy after losing his young child and she feels like she's kind of going crazy because in a way she also lost her young kids, even though they're still there.

I expected Mary's character to have a bumpy ride when the show brought her back, and I knew that as much as Sam and Dean love their mom, her being back in their life won't be all sunshine and rainbows, but I didn't expect things to go bad so fast. 
Not that I blame Mary for feeling the way she feels or wanting to get away for while, I just feel so bad for Dean, seeing his reaction to her leaving was heartbreaking. He went back to being this scared little 4 year old that his mother was taken from him, but this time she CHOOSE to leave him. In his mind she was so perfect, the 4 year old boy in him remembered this loving and caring mother (unlike John, who was very harsh with him and Sam), a mother that told him that angels are watching over him every night, that made him soup when he was sick and cut the crust of his Sandwich.  He spent more than half his life trying (and eventually succeeding) revenging her death, and he always kept her memory in his heart and her pictures at his nightstand. So its so understandably crushing for him to see her choose to walk a way from him again.

Edited October 28, 2016 by goldy

[catrox14]

Upon further review re the motorcycle. 

I no longer think the it's related to the story or foreshadowing anything. I think it was another shout out to Prince which are scattered throughout the episode.

-- Prince was a native of Minneapolis and the episode is set in St. Paul.

-- The motel room was painted purple and had room divider with male and female symbols that are similar to Prince's sign when he was going by "The Artist Formerly Known as Prince".

--The small sign on the table in the motel room read "Purple Funk".

-- The sign in front of the store as Dean walks by reads "Nelson's Corner Store" - Prince's full name is Prince Rogers Nelson. That shot pans right to the motorcycle.

-- Prince's character "The Kid" rode a motorcycle in Purple Rain.

[DittyDotDot]

So, the other shoe drops? Poor Sam and Dean, always hoping for a good thing, but also knowing there never is one. 

Overall, I liked the episode, but I think it was a pretty weak one, too. It was fairly disjointed and had a bit of a split personality at times. The Winchester side of it did look like and feel like Supernatural, but the Cass/Crowley/Rowena/Lucifer side of it was just jarring to me. It was so bright and colorful in comparison and the words didn't seem to fit in the characters' mouths somehow. The writing seemed to work for me, but the direction of it really didn't--let's not even talk about the special effects, they've been pretty laughable so far this season--and I just now remembered it was directed by Singer, of course it was. Now it all makes sense.

Anyway, I mostly enjoyed the Winchester side of this episode. I mean, I liked the family dynamics and really loved how even though Mary has a lot to learn from Sam and Dean, they can still learn something from her, too. And, quite frankly, I think it would be good if they stopped relying on technology and instead started connecting with the people more to work the job. I think that's what will keep them human in this life. However, I thought the actual the case was pretty lackluster and boring. But, I have no problem with what Mary said at the end nor with how crushed Sam and Dean were. Seemed perfectly reasonable to me and pretty much how expected it to play out.

BTW, forget the creepy ghosts, it's starting creep me out how much of my speculation is happening before my eyes this season. Stop it show, I'm not supposed to get what I want!! Wait, if I'm getting what I want, here's to wanting some silly messed up fun in the next couple episodes. Not how it works hu? Figures. ;)

Anyway, could it have been done differently? Sure, but it didn't bother me either. At least it made more sense to me than when they kicked Cass out of the bunker back in S9 and I'm pretty sure she'll be back and they'll work it all out. I'm guessing they'll all agree the next time she is ushered off-screen. 

12 hours ago, catrox14 said:

So wait, a stinking minute. Are they trying to tell me that all Rowena had to do was find a spell to blast Lucifer far, far away, and she never DID IT WHEN HE WAS inside Cas?  When she could have? Did I miss something here?

Okay, I tried, I really really tired. I was patient and gave it the benefit of the doubt, but, seriously show, LEAVE THAT SHIT ALONE!! Lucifer once bound freakin' Death to do his bidding, but only threatens Rowena and "hopes" she'll do his bidding? Yeah, this isn't working for me. They should've just let Lucifer hang out in Vince's band hiding away from the world and wanting nothing to do with any of this shit anymore. I think it's time they just stuff him back in the cage and move on already. Sigh.

Although, I rather enjoyed Cass and Crowley's road trip--"It's been months, months, since we tried to kill each other." --So... .

12 hours ago, MysteryGuest said:

I didn't quite catch what Mary was saying about being in heaven.  I don't think she was with John, but she mentioned being with baby Sam and little boy Dean?  So in her heaven I guess she's with her small children, even though they're still living?  I'm going to need to have that clarified.

Everyone creates their own private heaven. I don't think she was actually with John or her boys, but had been living with her memories and what her mind could imagine for them for the last 30 years. It's hard to reconcile the reality of Sam and Dean right now because just a few days ago they were a fantasy.

11 hours ago, rue721 said:

I have this thing that, if I'm in an upsetting situation, or even just a very emotional situation, this little switch inside me goes *flick* and suddenly, I'm disengaged. It's like I'm suddenly very far away, watching everything through a telescope. And it can actually be a PITA, because I can't control it. Do any of you guys have that, too? Anyway, so that's what happened to me at the end of this episode. My heart just noped out of there!

Well, I have my own coping mechanism that's not any better, but what you described is how I've kinda been seeing Dean since Mary came back. Not that he's been a pain in the ass, actually the opposite, but disconnected emotionally from it too. I think he's been preparing himself for it all to go bad from the moment she hugged him in the premiere. It's really quite sad, but very Dean too. And, Sam? Man, when the generally hopeful guy is saying there's something wrong... . Oh boy!

26 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Upon further review re the motorcycle. 

I no longer think the it's related to the story or foreshadowing anything. I think it was another shout out to Prince which are scattered throughout the episode.

Ding, ding, ding!

[Primetimer]

It's just another day at the office for the Winchesters.

View the full article

[nara]

I've decided that the only way I can deal with Mary leaving is if someone writes a fan fiction that she was attracted to her grown-up sons in the wrong way and had to make herself leave. ;) JK, but Mary is probably younger that both of them, so that's got to be strange.

[shang yiet]

That final heartbreaking scene saved this boring episode for me. Sam's "We're here, mum" was so sad like he's saying why are we not enough? We're right here, why can't you be happy with the real us? He must have felt he was somehow letting Mary down.

Sam's flinch when Mary shut the door and then looking so forlorn and lost. The biggest blank of his life just walked out for who knows how long. He never had anyone cut the crust off his sandwich and it looks like he never will.

Edited October 28, 2016 by shang yiet

[Morrigan2575]

2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Upon further review re the motorcycle. 

I no longer think the it's related to the story or foreshadowing anything. I think it was another shout out to Prince which are scattered throughout the episode.

-- Prince was a native of Minneapolis and the episode is set in St. Paul.

-- The motel room was painted purple and had room divider with male and female symbols that are similar to Prince's sign when he was going by "The Artist Formerly Known as Prince".

--The small sign on the table in the motel room read "Purple Funk".

-- The sign in front of the store as Dean walks by reads "Nelson's Corner Store" - Prince's full name is Prince Rogers Nelson. That shot pans right to the motorcycle.

-- Prince's character "The Kid" rode a motorcycle in Purple Rain.

Oh wow, that's a great catch. I had no idea they were doing a tribute to Prince.?

[GirlyGeek]

This:

"Did you cut your hair?"

Mary: "I'm gonna keep it short if I'm gonna go out on a hunt, you know? Why give the bad guys the advantage of long, pullable hair, right?" 

Dean: "Wow. I've been trying to tell Sam that for years." 
****

and this:

Sam: "I mean, she's trying to bury herself in hunting to avoid dealing."

Dean: "And how do you know that?"

Sam: "Years of personal experience."
**

Had me laughing so hard!

So, I liked this episode (and we are on a roll this season, which makes me very uneasy).  I love how awkward it is for Sam and Dean and Mary to co-exist- just as it should be.  Trying to find how they all fit together... and turns out they just can't right now.  I get, I really do get why Mary needed to leave.  But the instant shut down of Dean, the way he stepped back and turned away- like he'd been punched in the gut.  Heartbreaking to watch and Jensen killed it.

This is the first time in many years that I've enjoyed SPN so much right out of the gate, so I'm wary but optimistic. :)

[Wynne88]

I hadn't caught that either.  Good job!

Any ideas about the significance of the title?  I looked up 'Foundry' and it's defined as a factory that produces metal castings.

In 'The Road So Far' part, as part of her persuasion, it showed the dead girlfriend telling Vince that they could heal his sister.  That part actually wasn't in Mamma Mia; I guess nobody told last week's director/editor that it was going to matter in this episode.

I really liked Rick Springfield as Lucifer, which surprised me.  He's a much better actor than I would have given him credit for.  It did seem weird that Lucifer would trust Rowena to do a spell on him, when he was still threatening to kill her.  Seems rather gullible.

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I can't believe that neither one of them asked where she was going.  Or how she was going to get there.  Or how she was going to afford to eat.  Or made sure she had a phone with their numbers.   She doesn't exactly have current life skills.

 

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It's their MO -- they did the same thing with Kate and Claire.  And, in a roundabout way, Krissy and her brood.

On the other hand, they did ask Castiel where he was going at the beginning of this episode.  Kate, Claire, Krissy etc aren't part of their family; they haven't got the same obligation or ties as they do to Mary.  It just seemed strange to me that they'd let her walk out the door without making sure she would at least be able to feed herself and find a safe place to stay.  I'd have nightmares wondering if she was sleeping on the street somewhere.  And since she's already shown herself to be open to taking hunts, and she has the journal for information, that would add another layer to my concern.

[bethy]

I liked Mary's haircut. Cute. I loved that neither of her sons immediately noticed the change.

Dean was in full on denial, Mom want's to hunt, so let's hunt, I'll introduce her to the wonders of the modern age and everything will be fine, fine mode. Which makes a lot of sense for his character to me. He knew as well as Sam did that things weren't right, but I feel like for the most part Dean's an it is what it is and I'll deal with it kind of guy. It also makes sense to me that Sam's the one who wants to address what he's noticed and wants Dean acknowledge it.

The ghost story was CREE. PEE. I had to mute the TV multiple times to keep from getting scared. I'm thankful I didn't dream about that horrible doll last night.

Mary the badass hunter. Here's the thing for me. Mary hadn't hunted in, what, ten years before she died. That they haven't at least acknowledged that kind of bugs me as they have her figure out the real reason for the hauting and have no learning curve as she gets thrown back into the life. I'm not saying she isn't or shouldn't be competent, but let's at least note that she's no longer a 19yo girl when she takes monsters on.

I, too, was totally taken out of the moment by Cas's sarcasm. Without Crowley at least commenting on it. I'm mostly bored by non-Winchester stuff and don't care at all about the Lucifer storyline. 

And finally, Mary's leaving. Not a fan AT ALL of how that was handled. I get that for plot reasons they need her out of the bunker, but to have her leave like that was selfish to me. I realize she's dealing with a lot, but that doesn't mean you abondon your children because they can't be the babies you remember. Theoretically I get that Sam and Dean as grown men are strangers to her, but the show did not play that up at all leading up to last night. She seemed to have accepted them as her sons, bonding with them, playing the mom card. So if you're struggling, tell your boys that you're not okay, say that you need time, but to hightail it out of there? Bad move, lady. When the door slammed, I thought, you better not be taking Baby, girl.

I loved Dean's step away from her. Right on. He doesn't have to pretend that he's okay with your leaving. Both Jensen and Jared knocked it out of the park in that last scene. If you miss your little boys, Mary, look at them right now! They both looked so young and hurt. Ugh. 

Edited October 28, 2016 by bethy

[DittyDotDot]

 It just seemed strange to me that they'd let her walk out the door without making sure she would at least be able to feed herself and find a safe place to stay. 

Mary kinda threw them for a loop here and they didn't have a chance to even raise their hands before she grabbed her bag and left. They were still in a state of shock and still processing what was happening before they heard the door close. I'm sure after she left, they thought of a whole host of things they would've liked to have said or asked.

[Hana Chan]

The ghost story is just the kind of MOTW storyline that I always enjoyed, but for me the real meat of this episode was Mary and her relationship with her sons.

As sad as it was to see Sam's and Dean's reactions to her leaving (and I totally get just how painful this was for them), I totally get where Mary is coming from and why she's having trouble not just with a world that she ff'd into, but her sons as adults as well. As has been pointed out, Mary has no experience with her children as grown men. She never got to see them past childhood (and in Sam's case, infancy). She just stepped in and found two grown and badly damaged men who are living the life that she wanted more than anything else to spare them of. And she had the knowledge that all of the things that they've been through are directly a result of her mistakes. That is a lot for anyone to have to shoulder.

So I get why she has to take a step back and try to get her head around things without having the immediate pressure of having to try to reconfigure her "mom" role to two men lost her at such a young age. The peace she'd had in Heaven, with her children and her husband living free from hunting, has been totally shattered.

And I totally get why Dean especially was so hurt by her leaving. Sam never had any real relationship with her (Mary having died before he could develop any conscious feelings for her). She was always something mythical in his life that he never really knew but missed because he knew that he was supposed to have a mother. He didn't miss her a a person. Dean, on the other hand, did have some early memories of her so he had some more profound feelings of loss after her death. His entire life was totally upended, whereas Sam's earliest memories were of Dean and John on the road. Sam feels real loss, but Dean (understandably) feels real rejection.

So hurt feelings all the way around, no one really right or wrong and the potential for them to come together on more certain ground later on.  

[shang yiet]

When something mythical, something that up to now was a just a photo in a frame comes to life and then walks away, I think the sense of loss is just as profound for Sam.