S04.E15: MAFS Season 4 Reunion

[Lion18]

1 hour ago, SaucyMommy said:

Just finished watching. I actually fast forwarded through most of it. I really don't care about Tom and Lily. I just wanted to see Nick and Sonia. I honestly just think Nick is awkward in front of the camera. And I think they genuinely like each other. But I don't understand this format. Why did it have to be so edited?

Totally agree. In an interview of Nick by Jamie he said very nice things about Sonia and alluded that she was the one who wanted to keep certain things private. That is understandable as she is a social worker

i really think a script about them was decided by the producers. I think they liked each other and got along for the most part but PTB wanted drama

i also agree the cameras in his face so often made him crazy. He also said that in the interview

 

 

i like them

[ChristmasJones]

I wonder how Nick is feeling about how he has been portrayed in this show. I wonder if either he or Sonia ever realized the way their story line would be edited. 

[SaucyMommy]

I agree. I think Nick genuinely cares for her. And he doesn't strike me as a guy to stick around for the sake of sticking around. I think they have a good balance in their personalities, and some couples are more private. My husband is an introvert, and very quiet with strangers. I can only imagine how he'd be on camera! He also isn't big in to PDA nor am I. Some couples just prefer to be more private - and that is ok!

[izabella]

6 hours ago, MrSmith said:

You know, the sad thing is that even with two couples staying together this season, that only gives the "experts" a 25% success rate, which is half of the average divorce rate of 50%.

That often quoted divorce statistic of 50% is extremely misleading and 100% inaccurate.  It does not mean that half of all couples who get married end up getting divorced.  It means that (using made-up numbers). in the year that study was done, 1000 couples got married and 500 couples got divorced.  It doesn't mean that, of the 1000 couples that got married that year, 500 couples eventually divorced in the years to follow.  It means that 500 couples got divorced that year out of the millions of couples that are currently married (the aggregate of couples that married over the last 50 years or whatever). 

It's DUMB math that is actually meaningless.  Couples who marry today DO NOT have a 50% chance of getting divorced. 

Sorry, had to get that off my chest because I hate how our media fucks up reporting of statistics and studies and math and creates all these false impressions without ever explaining (or even understanding!) what the statistics and studies actually mean.

Edited November 2, 2016 by izabella

[izabella]

7 hours ago, jamblastx said:

I am sick of seeing Tom's stubble (ladies, do any of you find this attractive?  Seriously, I am curious)

No, hate stubble and hate Tom's stubble in particular.  We saw him clean shaven once, and he has some weird thing going on with the space between his nose and upper lip that I think he's trying to hide with the stubble.

[qtpye]

When my husband has stubble (which is not often) my four year old daughter calls it his "hurty beard".

[gonecrackers]

1 hour ago, Lion18 said:

i really think a script about them was decided by the producers. I think they liked each other and got along for the most part but PTB wanted drama

I had considered that as well, but again what he said still bothers me & even if it was scripted why would anyone in their right minds agree to be portrayed like that? Him like a totally insensitive jerk & her the wounded victim, who was also sucking up the sympathy on SM... not respectable IMHO.

If they were mostly okay & just doing what they were told for drama they still allowed their budding relationship to be played out in a very negative way; appearing to be two bumbling idiots who could barely verbalize for all to see, including family, friends, future children perhaps.

As far as being uncomfortable on TV, why then sign up for a reality show where the camera is always in your face, unless they were seriously desperate for mates for some reason.

All my own opinion of course & if they make it the long haul that's great. I personally would not want those kinds of representations or memories but they are the ones that have to live with it.

Edited November 2, 2016 by gonecrackers

[Vinyasa]

Quote

1 hour ago, gonecrackers said:

As far as being uncomfortable on TV, why then sign up for a reality show where the camera is always in your face, unless they were seriously desperate for mates for some reason.

 

To promote your Section 8 T-shirt business.............

[Jellybeans]

Speaking of editing, look how they made it seem like it was a problem that Nick did not wear his ring.  For all we know Sonia could be the one who does not want PDA on camera.  We do not know.

Edited November 2, 2016 by Jellybeans

[WichitaStateShock]

Just checking in to see how it all ended even though I haven't watched in a month. Hopefully Nick and Sonia actually like each other.

 

About the stubble, my husband used to clean shave every day! But, he gets all the time that he looks like Jason Statham (at least in the face, not as muscular as him, like literally in vegas several people wanted pictures with him because they thought he was Jason). Jason Statham typically has some stubble and so I asked my husband to leave some stubble and I have to say it is soooo sexy! 

[Evil Queen]

3 hours ago, cardigirl said:

I thought the group reunion was only in seasons 1 and 2.  Last season, didn't they meet with the individual couples?  I could be remembering wrong, but I didn't think they had all 6 in the same room last season.

You are right. It was the first 2 seasons and after that we haven't seen it happen. Last season Ashley wouldn't even meet with David in the same room so they did it one on one. I still haven't watched it yet but I take it that was the same with Heather and Derek. 

2 hours ago, izabella said:

That often quoted divorce statistic of 50% is extremely misleading and 100% inaccurate.  It does not mean that half of all couples who get married end up getting divorced.  It means that (using made-up numbers). in the year that study was done, 1000 couples got married and 500 couples got divorced.  It doesn't mean that, of the 1000 couples that got married that year, 500 couples eventually divorced in the years to follow.  It means that 500 couples got divorced that year out of the millions of couples that are currently married (the aggregate of couples that married over the last 50 years or whatever). 

It's DUMB math that is actually meaningless.  Couples who marry today DO NOT have a 50% chance of getting divorced. 

Sorry, had to get that off my chest because I hate how our media fucks up reporting of statistics and studies and math and creates all these false impressions without ever explaining (or even understanding!) what the statistics and studies actually mean.

Thank you for that. I hate that myself and get tired of it too. So many so called numbers get tossed out on so many things when really those are not true and just played with ones or to fit whatever situation for political reasons. 

2 hours ago, gonecrackers said:

I had considered that as well, but again what he said still bothers me & even if it was scripted why would anyone in their right minds agree to be portrayed like that? Him like a totally insensitive jerk & her the wounded victim, who was also sucking up the sympathy on SM... not respectable IMHO.

If they were mostly okay & just doing what they were told for drama they still allowed their budding relationship to be played out in a very negative way; appearing to be two bumbling idiots who could barely verbalize for all to see, including family, friends, future children perhaps.

As far as being uncomfortable on TV, why then sign up for a reality show where the camera is always in your face, unless they were seriously desperate for mates for some reason.

All my own opinion of course & if they make it the long haul that's great. I personally would not want those kinds of representations or memories but they are the ones that have to live with it.

This is what bugs me with it there is on way to just move on from those kind of words IMO. No one says words like that just because they are upset or drunk either. IMO that is not an excuse for the behavior he had there and in a few other scenes where he said things to just try to be mean. I don't care if this is someone in this type of situation, you are dating or married to for a long time....if you get told they do not find you attractive and do not like you and so on why would you want to stick around with that person? To me its a lack of self respect to stick with that person. If you play that out because they want you to its really pathetic to go along with looking like that on tv. As well as I do not buy this uncomfortable on camera junk. You do NOT sign up for things that you know a camera will be following you around like that then. You never see those kinds of people on other reality shows and with good reason too. They are bad for tv if they can't handle a camera in their face. I think its one of those things though that with this show they use as an excuse along with the introvert and whatever other crap for bad behavior, coldness, and so on. 

35 minutes ago, Jellybeans said:

Speaking of editing, look how they made it seem like it was a problem that Nick did not wear his ring.  For all we know Sonia could be the one who does not want PDA on camera.  We do not know.

I doubt she is the one. She strikes me as one that wants to be out holding hands with the man she is with and cuddling and so on. Nick on the other hand does not come across that way at all. He just comes across cold and robot like. Even his speech is robot like. The whole ring thing, who takes a ring off to play golf? I have never heard of anyone doing that. While my husband does because his job is in maintenance and I rather him have all his fingers than it get caught on something with the risk of it pulling. Golf though there is nothing where that would go on. So I call BS on that excuse and he doesn't strike me as one that does manual labor much....if at all. 

[Jellybeans]

When I was married I took my ring off for many reasons.  I put no stock in the wearing of rings. They can be very annoying.

My point really is we are at the mercy of the editors and the story they chose to tell.  

[gonecrackers]

6 minutes ago, Evil Queen said:

The whole ring thing, who takes a ring off to play golf?

My husband has never taken his ring off to play golf.

 

2 minutes ago, Jellybeans said:

When I was married I took my ring off for many reasons.  I put no stock in the wearing of rings. They can be very annoying.

My point really is we are at the mercy of the editors and the story they chose to tell.  

Many do... but Nick never took his ring off, that we were allowed to see, on the show. They went to hit golf balls & was the ring on?

It was taken off because they told him to. They needed a 'get them to watch' shot for the previews.

[peaceknit]

7 hours ago, gonecrackers said:

Tom & the stubble... don't mind it much as a 'look' but would probably be painful; that's Lily's problem.

Speaking of painful the manscaping... Sonia said Nick is 'prickly'. Who wants to run their hands (or anything else) over stubble, not just on the face but all over? Wouldn't trimmed hair be more preferable than prickles? Guess that's a thing now but it doesn't seem sexy to be scraping someone all the time. It's probably handy if you have an itch in bed however... 'scoot over, hun, I want to rub my itchy back on your stubbly chest... aaaahhhh, much better... g'nite'.

That part about Nick shaving his entire body squicked me the F out! Probably revealing my age to admit that, lol. I could never be with any man that did that, but that's just me.

Oh, and I do like the stubble look as well as beards. I had a bf once who had stubble and remember my chin being very rashy after a good make out sesh. :-)

[izabella]

First thing Tom says in reply to Dr. Pepper's "How are things going?"  was, "I'd say it's a lot different.  Marriage is not easy in any sense.  We both are just different people.  We know that.  That was probably the biggest fear, of just being, just that feeling of entrapment, being locked down, is definitely not what I was expecting."

And Lily was so, so, so surprised on moving day to see how attached Tom is to his bus.  Really?  I hope she watched the show as it aired to see just how deep and true Tom's love for his bus is.

Oh boy.  These two aren't going to work out.

[Kareem]

2 hours ago, WichitaStateShock said:

About the stubble, my husband used to clean shave every day! But, he gets all the time that he looks like Jason Statham (at least in the face, not as muscular as him, like literally in vegas several people wanted pictures with him because they thought he was Jason). Jason Statham typically has some stubble and so I asked my husband to leave some stubble and I have to say it is soooo sexy! 

I like it, too, on some men. Wasn't feeling it on Tom the Turtlehead though.  It makes some men look rugged. It makes Tom look like a turtle who forgot to shave.  

[Vinyasa]

Quote

It was taken off because they told him to. They needed a 'get them to watch' shot for the previews.

Exactly.

And even if he did take the ring off to play golf, he had plenty of time to put it back on.

[Waterlilly]

The editing was the winner this season, I quess.  Everyone sees the couples differently, which is why I enjoy this forum so much. I thought that Lilly looked miserable, and seems more stuck up than in the beginning.  I just love Sonia (how could Nick not), she brings the best out of him. There is so much that we didn't see with them, IMHO.  They seem more real, to me. I loved at the end when Dax popped his head up between them, that is so my marriage??

[MsPH]

I still find Nick and Sonia adorable together, and they can't have edited all the good parts out since I definitely saw him start to really appreciate her around the time they went to feed the homeless. After that he kept giving her the sweetest looks and made references to their future together and whatnot. I think he was just scared she wouldn't be able to forgive him and that held him back a bit. What he wrote in the card in last week's episode was so sweet and genuine. I definitely think the lack of PDA was down to Sonia as well, since at the lunch with Lilly and Tom, Nick was leaning towards Sonia with his arm on the back of her chair while she was leaning against the wall. It's not all on Nick. I do believe he's less touchy-feely in private than Sonia would prefer, but I find that to be a pretty easy issue to overcome compared to major differences in lifestyle and plans for the future. As long as they both remember to also show affection in the way their spouse interprets it, they'll be fine. They both see a future together, they're both committed and clearly want to be married, and they both want kids. Sonia also finds Nick hilarious and he's openly teasing her on SM and in interviews. I just feel like they both appreciate each other as they are and that is huge. What I like about Nick is that I don't think he's ever tried to change Sonia in any way. Even when things were hard, it seemed like he was just trying to figure out if Sonia was someone he'd want to be with rather than trying to change her into the person he wanted. I think his outburst had to do with Sonia trying to push him out of his comfort zone too much, but as soon as she let him just be him (maybe because she didn't care to try very hard at that point), he started feeling more comfortable. I can see their relationship only getting better the better they understand each other.

That brings me to Tom, who still kind of annoys me. I can't help it. I hope they have a happy life together, but I can't help having some doubts, since I still get the feeling that Tom is trying out if he can live the married life with Lilly rather than being fully committed to it. Some comments last night and in Jamie's interview just raise red flags for me. It's great that they have the initial spark and the healthy sex life, but so do most couples at the start of a relationship. How many of those relationships last? Not many. I don't think them being married already makes much difference if Tom sees it as entrapment or whatever he described it. Lilly is still young enough to be willing and able to mould herself into the partner Tom wants, but I don't know if it's the best thing for her in the long run. What if she wastes 5 years on trying to please him just to find out he doesn't want kids after all? If he really doesn't then it's better he doesn't have them, but he shouldn't be wasting Lilly's time if that's the case. I hope he at least is able to see all the effort she puts in and meets her half-way, but he seems to have a pretty high opinion of himself, so I don't know. I feel like he's constantly patting himself on the back for all the ways he can "help" Lilly and inspire her to change, which I honestly don't think she needs to. I wish he'd just focus on being a good husband instead of letting others know what a good husband he is. Something phoney about him. I don't have to be with him though, so that's lucky. There is a lid for every pot, or so they say.

Overall, I enjoyed this season. Yes it dragged in the middle, because 15 episodes is just overkill, and there was no need to keep up with Heather and Derek, but I like it when something genuine starts on this show.

[BunnySlippers]

8 hours ago, izabella said:

No, hate stubble and hate Tom's stubble in particular.  We saw him clean shaven once, and he has some weird thing going on with the space between his nose and upper lip that I think he's trying to hide with the stubble.

Yes! His upper lip is super weird (like it's curving inward or something) and it's been bothering me all this time. I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed it.

[BunnySlippers]

16 hours ago, jamblastx said:

I am sick of seeing Tom's stubble (ladies, do any of you find this attractive?  Seriously, I am curious) and his condescending attitude towards Lily and how 'proud' he is of her.  Was he trying to hypnotize her in bed with the 'We will fix the bus because YOU want to' bullshit?

And as far as Sonja and Nick...you know what, they deserve each other.  If they are both that desperate and willing to accept partners that are clearly lukewarm at best for one another, then more power to them.  Personally, I think that both of these couples are doomed within two years at the most.

Finally, the 'experts'.  It took almost the entire season, but even the other new one pissed me off with the comment about Heather 'she realizes now that she could have tried more'.  No, she realizes now that signing up for this catastrophe was the worst decision she has even made in her life.  And her question to Tom and Lily of 'do you regret doing this show?' is the DUMBEST question in the history of broadcasting.  They JUST stated how blissfully happy they are together....why would they regret it?!  (talk to me in two years and I am sure that their answer will be different).

I don't like stubble at all. But Tom actually looks even worse when he's "clean-shaven." Maybe it's because his weird upper lip, or maybe it's because even when he's shaved he has a strong five o'clock shadow. And so much yes about his condescending attitude towards Lilly. I had recorded the show and just watched it today, and had to fast-forward through some of their scenes because I'm just so tired of their constant kissing, Tom's condescending behavior, and Lilly's dramatic speeches.

I also agree about Rachel. I don't like her at all. I find her sort of creepy, especially with the way she salivates over the couples' sex life. And yes, that line about Heather realizing that she could have tried more was wishful thinking on Rachel's part and totally baseless. Plus, it made it sound as if Heather and Derek breaking up was all Heather's fault and Derek had had nothing to do with it.

16 hours ago, Neurochick said:

What this show proved to me is that with selective editing, you will believe any story the producers want you to believe.  I noticed in the "never before seen footage" there were plenty of scenes where Nick was affectionate with Sonia, only WE didn't see them.  When they were together on the reunion show, they seemed like a totally different couple than what we saw on the show. 

This proves something that I have always known, everything on TV, reality shows, TV shows, the news, etc, is all edited to tell whatever story the producers want to tell.  I also think Heather was heavily edited because they do NOT want people to know why she decided to divorce Derek; there had to be a very serious reason to divorce him after only two weeks.

I agree. Heather was heavily edited because they couldn't talk about Derek's weed smoking, so they wanted to make her the villain. I think it was the weed, his explosive temper and his tendency to get jealous and controlling, and maybe there was something else, too, that we didn't see. I wish Heather spilled the beans about what exactly happened.

[Gem 10]

7 hours ago, Jellybeans said:

Speaking of editing, look how they made it seem like it was a problem that Nick did not wear his ring.  For all we know Sonia could be the one who does not want PDA on camera.  We do not know.

Yes.  And what's all this negative stuff about Nick not wearing the ring?  Who cares about this ring .. The experts?  Some men don't wear jewelry.  My husband's ring has been in the jewelry box since we got married a trillion years ago, and I don't give a shit.

[Stillhoping]

Watched online...nice ending...sure better than season 2 and 3 

So glad for Tom and Lilly...my all time fav couple of this show

Stubble? Nice...remember old Miami Vice haha. I hate big beards tho..especially here in the heat...Neals original rug beard would make me gag.

I think Tom and Lilly are great...he is changing for her and she is having fun...I think her workaholic ways kept her from fun but she is now experiencing new stuff.

Heather...i feel sorry for her...bad rap...I wish she called out the experts. I still feel Derek did stuff that allowed hercto break the contract unlike Ashley who had to stick it out

Hate tea and sympathy shown to Derek. Why no mention of where he works and what he does?

Nick and Sonia...good for them if they are happy. But..bed scene...nick in shorts ...outside covers...a kiss yay..BUT look who is between them...DAX! I think the golf story is BS...Lola is wearing that ring on her dog collar!

Funniest thing was the joy of the experts...Rev was rubbing his hands in glee with Tilly and I thought we might see Dr Pepper have an orgasm lol

Edited November 3, 2016 by Stillhoping
Spelling

[MrSmith]

13 hours ago, Jellybeans said:

When I was married I took my ring off for many reasons.  I put no stock in the wearing of rings. They can be very annoying.

My point really is we are at the mercy of the editors and the story they chose to tell.  

I've been married for 13 years next week and I haven't worn my ring in just over 12 years. Of course, I'll freely tell anyone I meet that I'm married and often don't shut up about my wife. So, there is that...

[MrSmith]

7 hours ago, BunnySlippers said:

I don't like stubble at all. But Tom actually looks even worse when he's "clean-shaven." Maybe it's because his weird upper lip, or maybe it's because even when he's shaved he has a strong five o'clock shadow. And so much yes about his condescending attitude towards Lilly. I had recorded the show and just watched it today, and had to fast-forward through some of their scenes because I'm just so tired of their constant kissing, Tom's condescending behavior, and Lilly's dramatic speeches.

I also agree about Rachel. I don't like her at all. I find her sort of creepy, especially with the way she salivates over the couples' sex life. And yes, that line about Heather realizing that she could have tried more was wishful thinking on Rachel's part and totally baseless. Plus, it made it sound as if Heather and Derek breaking up was all Heather's fault and Derek had had nothing to do with it.

I agree. Heather was heavily edited because they couldn't talk about Derek's weed smoking, so they wanted to make her the villain. I think it was the weed, his explosive temper and his tendency to get jealous and controlling, and maybe there was something else, too, that we didn't see. I wish Heather spilled the beans about what exactly happened.

We watched the episode last night and fast-forwarded through a bunch of it, but especially the talk about their sex life. Yuck. Why does anyone want to hear about that? And Rachel getting that demonic smile of hers while Lillian was pretending to be all shy, modest, and embarrassed by talking about their sex life made it that much more uncomfortable.

I wish they would drop both Rachel and Pastor Roberson as "experts". They really haven't given any kind of useful advice (at least, not that's been shown to us, anyway). I don't understand why they don't pair these new couples up with couples who've been married for 20 years or more (and who are not related by blood or marriage to the new couple). The new couples would get a lot better advice from couples who are "living the dream" than they do from the "experts". And I think having another couple to socialize with would just be helpful in general. Personally, I don't find marriage to be all that hard (or much work), but then my wife and I talk about everything and I focus on what I can do to make her life better today than it was yesterday.

When it comes to Derek and Heather, I wish they would have focused on Derek a bit more. It really kind of incensed me when he said that he has no regrets and that he did everything he could. I was just like "You failed to even scratch the surface of 'everything you could do'". I also wish they would have exposed the fact he was smoking marijuana a lot more than they did. I feel a little bad for Heather since she got the "bitch edit". I'm not "420 friendly" and, for me, smoking marijuana would be a deal-breaker. I wouldn't have lasted a week if I were in her position. He would have lit that up once and I would have been out. And, knowing me, I would probably have been even less pleasant to him than she was.

[BunnySlippers]

1 hour ago, MrSmith said:

We watched the episode last night and fast-forwarded through a bunch of it, but especially the talk about their sex life. Yuck. Why does anyone want to hear about that? And Rachel getting that demonic smile of hers while Lillian was pretending to be all shy, modest, and embarrassed by talking about their sex life made it that much more uncomfortable.

I wish they would drop both Rachel and Pastor Roberson as "experts". They really haven't given any kind of useful advice (at least, not that's been shown to us, anyway). I don't understand why they don't pair these new couples up with couples who've been married for 20 years or more (and who are not related by blood or marriage to the new couple). The new couples would get a lot better advice from couples who are "living the dream" than they do from the "experts". And I think having another couple to socialize with would just be helpful in general. Personally, I don't find marriage to be all that hard (or much work), but then my wife and I talk about everything and I focus on what I can do to make her life better today than it was yesterday.

When it comes to Derek and Heather, I wish they would have focused on Derek a bit more. It really kind of incensed me when he said that he has no regrets and that he did everything he could. I was just like "You failed to even scratch the surface of 'everything you could do'". I also wish they would have exposed the fact he was smoking marijuana a lot more than they did. I feel a little bad for Heather since she got the "bitch edit". I'm not "420 friendly" and, for me, smoking marijuana would be a deal-breaker. I wouldn't have lasted a week if I were in her position. He would have lit that up once and I would have been out. And, knowing me, I would probably have been even less pleasant to him than she was.

I agree with all this. And LOL, yes, Rachel's demonic smile - I think that's one reason why I find her creepy.

I don't get it either why they keep talking about how hard marriage is and how much work it is. What's so hard about it? Showing consideration to your spouse? Not being a selfish jerk? Spending time together?

I guess for Tom it's giving up living in his bus.

[MrSmith]

4 minutes ago, BunnySlippers said:

I agree with all this. And LOL, yes, Rachel's demonic smile - I think that's one reason why I find her creepy.

I don't get it either why they keep talking about how hard marriage is and how much work it is. What's so hard about it? Showing consideration to your spouse? Not being a selfish jerk? Spending time together?

I guess for Tom it's giving up living in his bus.

Man, oh man. That bus. That is one semi-polished turd, isn't it? I can't even say it's a highly polished turd. I think the idea is neat, but a bus as your primary residence is never going to fly once you're married. Women don't want to live on a bus. Most men don't either. He's put (what I am certain is) quite a bit of effort into making it a liveable space, and yet he can't be bothered to do simple things like cleaning out the ventilation system so that it doesn't spew little bits of crap all over the occupants when you turn it on? I would criticize him for not getting the air conditioning going, but he was living right there by the ocean and I'll bet he got good cross breezes that made it at least tolerable to sleep there at night. That said, if you're going to take that thing on a road trip and not go on said trip by yourself, then you'd better put some effort into the air conditioning.

Again, I think it's a neat idea, but it only works for a bachelor. At least it will make a good RV, assuming they have the cash to invest in finishing it.

[Enero]

30 minutes ago, BunnySlippers said:

I agree with all this. And LOL, yes, Rachel's demonic smile - I think that's one reason why I find her creepy.

I don't get it either why they keep talking about how hard marriage is and how much work it is. What's so hard about it? Showing consideration to your spouse? Not being a selfish jerk? Spending time together?

I guess for Tom it's giving up living in his bus.

You listed the easy part, at least two out of three things on your list - showing consideration and not being a selfish jerk. The hard part can be at times spending time together, especially if both parties have busy careers, then you throw in children and it gets even more difficult. Then there is the difficulty sometimes in getting on the same page when it comes to finances, raising the kids, dealing with issues that arise within and outside of the marriage. You have to remember a marriage is two different people, who oftentimes have different ways of approaching things, at times different beliefs, coming together to try  and build a life. Though you and your spouse might be on the same page about where you want to go with your lives together, you may have different ideas on how to get there and that's where the conflict and difficulty comes in. Compromise is not as easy as some think. It can be a lot of work and at times difficult, but if you've got a strong, supportive spouse whose just as committed as you, it can work. 

Edited November 3, 2016 by Enero

[MrSmith]

11 minutes ago, Enero said:

You listed the easy part, at least two out of three things on your list - showing consideration and not being a selfish jerk. The hard part can be at times spending time together, especially if both parties have busy careers, then you throw in children and it gets even more difficult. Then there is the difficulty sometimes in getting on the same page when it comes to finances, raising the kids, dealing with issues that arise within and outside of the marriage. You have to remember a marriage is two different people, who oftentimes have different ways of approaching things, at times different beliefs, coming together to try  and build a life. Though you and your spouse might be on the same page about where you want to go with your lives together, you may have different ideas on how to get there and that's where the conflict and difficulty comes in. Compromise is not as easy as some think. It can be a lot of work and at times difficult, but if you've got a strong, supportive spouse who's just as committed as you, it can work. 

Communication solves most everything else you've listed. From observing people and from my own experiences, all that stuff is only difficult if you fail to communicate. All the relationships I've been in that failed did so not because we had differences of opinion on money, kids, religion, or even lack of time together; they all failed because we first failed to communicate and this led into failing to be considerate and respectful. As far as spending time together, if your relationship is a priority for you, then you'll find ways to spend time together. The people who don't manage to spend time together allow themselves to prioritize other things above their relationship. Even when I was going to school (and taking 24 credits per semester) while working full time (in a job that seasonally required overtime), I managed to spend time with and communicate with my wife. There were a few times where I allowed school and work to take greater priority than my relationship, and in those times the time I spent with my wife and my communication with my wife suffered. So, yeah, it takes diligence, but it's not that tough.

[lh25]

15 hours ago, Evil Queen said:

The whole ring thing, who takes a ring off to play golf? I have never heard of anyone doing that

My husband does.  I asked him about it last night as we were watching this, and it has to do with his grip and rubbing too much.  I'm fine with it, I trust him.

[Enero]

31 minutes ago, MrSmith said:

Communication solves most everything else you've listed. From observing people and from my own experiences, all that stuff is only difficult if you fail to communicate. All the relationships I've been in that failed did so not because we had differences of opinion on money, kids, religion, or even lack of time together; they all failed because we first failed to communicate and this led into failing to be considerate and respectful.

I guess you were lucky then because in my experience (and the experience of many friends) it's tough even when communicating because again you're not always on the same page when it comes to resolving issues etc. It's not always as simple as what I said or what he said or what makes the most sense is what we'll do - problem solved. It can be more complicated than that, hence the conflict and difficulty. 

Quote

As far as spending time together, if your relationship is a priority for you, then you'll find ways to spend time together. The people who don't manage to spend time together allow themselves to prioritize other things above their relationship. Even when I was going to school (and taking 24 credits per semester) while working full time (in a job that seasonally required overtime), I managed to spend time with and communicate with my wife. There were a few times where I allowed school and work to take greater priority than my relationship, and in those times the time I spent with my wife and my communication with my wife suffered. So, yeah, it takes diligence, but it's not that tough.

Diligence is work. You didn't just wait for the stars to align so that you could spend time with your wife, you had to work at it. Again, that's why people often say that marriage can be difficult i.e. my earlier comments in this post and takes work, i.e. the example you just gave.

Edited November 3, 2016 by Enero

[gonecrackers]

1 hour ago, lh25 said:

My husband does.  I asked him about it last night as we were watching this, and it has to do with his grip and rubbing too much.  I'm fine with it, I trust him.

There are gloves for that. (nothing to do with you both; just sayin')

Regardless, with Nick, it was not for golf, as I'm doubting he jumped right off the course & ran to the interview.

Edited November 3, 2016 by gonecrackers
re-wording

[lazylou]

4 hours ago, MrSmith said:

 

I wish they would drop both Rachel and Pastor Roberson as "experts". They really haven't given any kind of useful advice (at least, not that's been shown to us, anyway). I don't understand why they don't pair these new couples up with couples who've been married for 20 years or more (and who are not related by blood or marriage to the new couple). The new couples would get a lot better advice from couples who are "living the dream" than they do from the "experts". And I think having another couple to socialize with would just be helpful in general. Personally, I don't find marriage to be all that hard (or much work), but then my wife and I talk about everything and I focus on what I can do to make her life better today than it was 

I agree. Marriage may not always be easy and sometimes I may be unhappy with my man, but  I would not describe it as "work."  What great ideas you suggest!

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Has Lillian Earned Tom's Respect In Time For The Married At First Sight Post-Experiment Check-In?

And more questions from the Season 4 capper!

[JapMo]

I haven't liked Tom all season, but he just seemed happy at the reunion.  So more power to him.  I hope they work out.

Nick & Sonia were my favs from the beginning, but it's been hard to root for Nick with everything he's done.  For a guy who seems to have promised himself he would not do anything or reveal anything on camera that would embarrass him, he turns out to be the one that blurts out something unforgiveable...all on the record.  I have never understood how a guy so buttoned up could have lost control like that.  It still makes no sense that someone that introverted would sign up for a reality show.

That said, he seemed more relaxed and actually happy 6 months later.  When he was barbecuing, he seemed totally at ease.  I know people think Sonia is crazy and desperate and settling, but from the very start she seemed to dig him and from what I observed last night, that hasn't changed.  Maybe she was very lonely in her single life and instead of looking at it that she's settling, maybe she's still trying to see if they have a fit.  Both of them are, I believe, 34.  You're not so picky at 34.  You're not so quick to throw in the towel.  I think they have a chance.  In real life Nick may be a lot different than what he presented on TV.  So I hope they do make it.

Lastly, I like the preacher and the sex gal.  They have faults, but they came across as more real than Dr. Celona ever did.  You could see how much they cared.  So I want them back for next season.  Can't believe we've actually gone through 4 seasons of this.  I got my sister hooked after the first one, LOL.  It's cheesy and phony at times, but think about standing in the middle of the street and a total stranger walking up to you and that's who you are going to marry.  That risk taking for a chance at happiness is what keeps us all watching this show.   See you all next season (figuratively).

[glitterpussy]

I will never get why they couldn't talk about Derek smoking weed. I assume they have something in their contracts that says they won't do illegal drugs. So if Derek was smoking illegally ( I guess FL doesn't have medical MJ or anything) why didn't they just put a stop to it? That would make more sense than tiptoeing around the whole thing like he was shooting freaking heroin or something. That was just super annoying.

Alternatively, just show it! I can't imagine the network could be criminally liable and I'm sure FL law enforcement has better things to do.

I'm done with his show anyway. This season was the worst yet for all the reasons everyone has said.

[stuckin60s]

I have always liked Nick and Sonja.  Glad he mentioned she brings out the best in him.  I think the shorts and above the blanket are because there is a squad of photographers in the room.  They have proved that they do not show their personal lives.  I am not sure who said it but it is true, and hope Sonja "gets it"  we all give to the other the kind of emotion we want to receive.  Not necessarily what they want.  I have been married a very long time.  I am more openly affectionate to my husband than he is to me.  It took me a long time to understand that.  I know he loves ME.  I wish both couples luck

as to Lilly and Tom, still don't like Tom.  When he spoke of being trapped, it made my skin crawl.  I don't think he understands what a partner is for. Just look at his beloved bus, there is only one seat??

[Empress1]

23 hours ago, Jellybeans said:

When I was married I took my ring off for many reasons.  I put no stock in the wearing of rings. They can be very annoying.

Yeah, I had a boss who had been married for decades but never wore a ring because he hated jewelry. I think he told us he took it off the day after he got married. I know a few other married men and women who don't wear rings because of the kind of work they do - it's a safety risk on the job.

[Evil Queen]

6 hours ago, lazylou said:

I agree. Marriage may not always be easy and sometimes I may be unhappy with my man, but  I would not describe it as "work."  What great ideas you suggest!

Agree with this. I don't like that word work being used to describe marriage or a parent. For me I don't really look at it in such a manner. Sure it can be hard at times with marriage or parenting but you get through things together the way you as a couple would. Which every couple has their ways to do so. Just like parenting can be different for each family. I think when many look at it as "work" they look at it like they do a job. Which can be a problem. As well as nothing will ever be perfect. You have to open your eyes to look at it in a different manner IMO. My husband and I were not raised even close to the same ways. He came from a single parent home and I didn't. I came from a home that didn't have close family though either but his family not only a lot larger but closer as well. I actually could depend more on his mom to be there for me if I ever need than I could my own. Yet we have many things in common and a few things that are not. As well as, we have crazy times of the year where everything is revolving around the kids and their activities or at times his job but when we are home we are together. We make plans around the schedule for each other. I just never feel like raising my kids has been work or that my marriage has been either.  

48 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

Yeah, I had a boss who had been married for decades but never wore a ring because he hated jewelry. I think he told us he took it off the day after he got married. I know a few other married men and women who don't wear rings because of the kind of work they do - it's a safety risk on the job.

My husband is one of those that took it off because of the job he does. We joke about him getting a tattoo there because of it and came up with a really good one if he ever really did. But in the end I rather him have all his fingers than to have his ring catch on something and not have it or worse happen. He would take it off when playing guitar/bass as well because it does get in the way of things for him at times. I take mine off if I do anything with cooking and use my hands (burgers, cookies, etc). Yet in the end we know we are married and we have no issues with it.

    The thing with the show and Nick though was just set up for acting like there was some drama and even the excuse given was lame though. I doubt he went from golfing to there but they wanted to make it seem like maybe something was up. God forbid the show just do anything without the added fake drama at all.

[lh25]

7 hours ago, gonecrackers said:

Regardless, with Nick, it was not for golf, as I'm doubting he jumped right off the course & ran to the interview.

Gloves don't do it for him.  I do totally agree with this.  I think it was done for the drama factor.  Much like how they all seemed required to use the word "but" even when it made zero sense.  "I really like you, and like where we are going, but.................I want to stay married".

[straightshooter]

On 11/1/2016 at 6:10 PM, Gem 10 said:

Nine minutes in and I just can't with this suspenseful trickery this show does.

It's seriously an embarassing attempt (every damn time) and it's caused the show to become more of a comedy in my household.

18 minutes ago, lh25 said:

Gloves don't do it for him.  I do totally agree with this.  I think it was done for the drama factor.  Much like how they all seemed required to use the word "but" even when it made zero sense.  "I really like you, and like where we are going, but.................I want to stay married".

This is exactly what I said to my daughter - there was a mandatory "BUT".  So lame.

[Stillhoping]

I also think Rachael and the Pastor turned out to be good additions. I think the experts...like them or not...did interact with the couples more and provided some help apparently.

I agree Sonia at ? 35 is pretty ready to settle. I have also considered her job...as a social worker she probably doesnt have lots of opportunities?

I hate the lurve shown to skeevy Derek...why hide the truth? I still maintain they only let Heather quit cause he was way out of line. And yes it is illegal here...we dont have even medical yet. Still i dont think it would be busted haha...but showing it would stop the Heather hate. 

Now that show over...social media Lilly and tom say bus has air condition but the crew could not film w it running . So they drove an hour and half to Key Largo with no air.

I wish both couples well. Lilly and Tom are my faves.  This season ended up better than the last two at least

  

[Gem 10]

2 hours ago, Empress1 said:

Yeah, I had a boss who had been married for decades but never wore a ring because he hated jewelry. I think he told us he took it off the day after he got married. I know a few other married men and women who don't wear rings because of the kind of work they do - it's a safety risk on the job.

To add to that, a wedding ring does not stop a husband from cheating, and it does not stop a woman from hitting  on him.  I worked in a very large office where everyone wore a ring and more than half were blatantly cheating.

[Empress1]

1 hour ago, Evil Queen said:

My husband is one of those that took it off because of the job he does. We joke about him getting a tattoo there because of it and came up with a really good one if he ever really did. But in the end I rather him have all his fingers than to have his ring catch on something and not have it or worse happen. He would take it off when playing guitar/bass as well because it does get in the way of things for him at times. I take mine off if I do anything with cooking and use my hands (burgers, cookies, etc). Yet in the end we know we are married and we have no issues with it.

When he was little, my brother regularly saw a doctor who was completely missing his left ring finger (no stub, just a totally empty space where his finger had been) because he lost it in a freak accident involving his wedding band. Something similar happened to Jimmy Fallon but he managed to keep his finger. So if people don't want to wear wedding rings and their spouses are OK with it, cool. (I will say, though, that as a single woman, I have met married men who don't wear wedding rings for whatever reason and I've flirted with them because I assume they're single, and then they drop a "my wife" and I think "Shit, why aren't you wearing a ring? I just wasted my time!")

Conversely, I used to work with a man who had an engagement ring (as did his wife), so after he was married he wore a ring on each hand. The engagement ring and wedding band were basically the same except for the kinds of metal.

Just now, Gem 10 said:

To add to that, a wedding ring does not stop a husband from cheating, and it does not stop a woman from hitting  on him.  I worked in a very large office where everyone wore a ring and more than half were blatantly cheating.

Cheaters gon' cheat, male or female. Rings mean what you want them to mean.

Re: stubble, sometimes it's very sexy-looking but it can be really abrasive depending on the texture of the man's hair. But it should be groomed. Like, keep the neck clean, keep it trimmed. There's a difference between "I'm wearing a low beard on purpose" and "I'm sloppy and haven't shaved in two weeks."

I do hope things work for Nick and Sonia if it would make them happy. The world is batshit crazy, we all deserve happiness. I don't think Sonia was a favorite here, but I liked her - she seemed warm and friendly, with a bit of a funny side. I bet she's a good friend.

[Evil Queen]

1 hour ago, Stillhoping said:

I also think Rachael and the Pastor turned out to be good additions. I think the experts...like them or not...did interact with the couples more and provided some help apparently.

I agree Sonia at ? 35 is pretty ready to settle. I have also considered her job...as a social worker she probably doesnt have lots of opportunities?

I hate the lurve shown to skeevy Derek...why hide the truth? I still maintain they only let Heather quit cause he was way out of line. And yes it is illegal here...we dont have even medical yet. Still i dont think it would be busted haha...but showing it would stop the Heather hate. 

Now that show over...social media Lilly and tom say bus has air condition but the crew could not film w it running . So they drove an hour and half to Key Largo with no air.

I wish both couples well. Lilly and Tom are my faves.  This season ended up better than the last two at least

  

I don't think the "experts" helped at all. I saw them being bully like to those that wanted to end it soon (Heather) or walked out (Sonia). They never went in to deal with the reasons for it why that was going on. Instead we saw them push at them to move back in or til the biter end seem like they wanted to try to see if Heather would give it another go. Rachel is just to into these couples sex lives and what is going on. She was a lawyer at one point and now turned supposed life coach. I agree with where it was said by Bunnyslippers about her drooling over the sex part of their lives. Its creepy how she gets over it. The whole sending Sonia and Nick to that tantric lady was not something that should have been done IMO. First that lady was creepy as well but that was not what needed to be done. The Mr. and Mrs. game on top of it...which was basically just like the old fish bowl questions. Then the body paints for Tom and Lily which they didn't need considering they seem to be doing fine in that area. Yet in the end not one of these "experts" got in there to really help them that I saw. When Sonia walked out they should have been on it with Nick but yet they were telling Sonia to move back instead. When Heather said she was done she got yelled out by the Pastor. In both situations we have the wrong person being yelled at to make it work and do this or that and the one that did the wrong thing(s) let off the hook.....yet again. Derek and Nick both should have been held accountable for what they did wrong. Make Nick apologize was not the way to fix things there. The fact that he had to be told to do so is an issue as well. While I get they were not going to show or tell us about Derek's pot smoking because of it being illegal...I would bet there is still more to it that they could have put out there on why she left so soon. Which then you question if there is other things that come into play that come into that sort of crossing of lines or is it they just figured they would play him up as the whiny ass man child that was left so soon and Heather is just so mean and cold for not putting up with his drugs and temper? Sadly I doubt some would stop with the Heather hate no matter what. Yet I am glad she was smart enough and strong enough of a person to step up and tell them no more and she would not be bullied into sticking it out at all. 

From what I got with the bus and a/c, was something about the filming crew's equipment...not sure exactly but I am guessing they were running their stuff off his bus' power so both things couldn't be used at the same time. Even so I couldn't have been on a hot bus like that myself without either getting sick or passing out. More so when you throw in the lighting for the show. UGH

[call me ishmael]

56 minutes ago, Evil Queen said:

I don't think the "experts" helped at all. I saw them being bully like to those that wanted to end it soon (Heather) or walked out (Sonia). They never went in to deal with the reasons for it why that was going on. Instead we saw them push at them to move back in or til the biter end seem like they wanted to try to see if Heather would give it another go. Rachel is just to into these couples sex lives and what is going on. She was a lawyer at one point and now turned supposed life coach. I agree with where it was said by Bunnyslippers about her drooling over the sex part of their lives. Its creepy how she gets over it. The whole sending Sonia and Nick to that tantric lady was not something that should have been done IMO. First that lady was creepy as well but that was not what needed to be done. The Mr. and Mrs. game on top of it...which was basically just like the old fish bowl questions. Then the body paints for Tom and Lily which they didn't need considering they seem to be doing fine in that area. Yet in the end not one of these "experts" got in there to really help them that I saw. When Sonia walked out they should have been on it with Nick but yet they were telling Sonia to move back instead. When Heather said she was done she got yelled out by the Pastor. In both situations we have the wrong person being yelled at to make it work and do this or that and the one that did the wrong thing(s) let off the hook.....yet again. Derek and Nick both should have been held accountable for what they did wrong. Make Nick apologize was not the way to fix things there. The fact that he had to be told to do so is an issue as well. While I get they were not going to show or tell us about Derek's pot smoking because of it being illegal...I would bet there is still more to it that they could have put out there on why she left so soon. Which then you question if there is other things that come into play that come into that sort of crossing of lines or is it they just figured they would play him up as the whiny ass man child that was left so soon and Heather is just so mean and cold for not putting up with his drugs and temper? Sadly I doubt some would stop with the Heather hate no matter what. Yet I am glad she was smart enough and strong enough of a person to step up and tell them no more and she would not be bullied into sticking it out at all. 

 

I agree with all of this.  Yes, it is true that they were better than Cilona but that is not exactly a high bar.  It is always the case with this show that if there is a problem it is because people aren't "working hard enough" or "giving the process a chance."  None of them actually try to figure out what is really wrong and almost always pretends that it should all work out.  But most relationships don't and just because they can shame them on TV doesn't mean these will.  And the browbeating is a bit much.

[izabella]

15 hours ago, MrSmith said:

We watched the episode last night and fast-forwarded through a bunch of it, but especially the talk about their sex life. Yuck. Why does anyone want to hear about that? And Rachel getting that demonic smile of hers while Lillian was pretending to be all shy, modest, and embarrassed by talking about their sex life made it that much more uncomfortable.

That totally squicked me out.  Everything about it was cringe-inducing.  I don't find Tom attractive at all, so I didn't appreciate the kissing montage, especially the shot of him licking Lily's face.  My eyes, my eyes, stop!

[Lion18]

2 hours ago, Empress1 said:

When he was little, my brother regularly saw a doctor who was completely missing his left ring finger (no stub, just a totally empty space where his finger had been) because he lost it in a freak accident involving his wedding band. Something similar happened to Jimmy Fallon but he managed to keep his finger. So if people don't want to wear wedding rings and their spouses are OK with it, cool. (I will say, though, that as a single woman, I have met married men who don't wear wedding rings for whatever reason and I've flirted with them because I assume they're single, and then they drop a "my wife" and I think "Shit, why aren't you wearing a ring? I just wasted my time!")

Conversely, I used to work with a man who had an engagement ring (as did his wife), so after he was married he wore a ring on each hand. The engagement ring and wedding band were basically the same except for the kinds of metal.

Cheaters gon' cheat, male or female. Rings mean what you want them to mean.

Re: stubble, sometimes it's very sexy-looking but it can be really abrasive depending on the texture of the man's hair. But it should be groomed. Like, keep the neck clean, keep it trimmed. There's a difference between "I'm wearing a low beard on purpose" and "I'm sloppy and haven't shaved in two weeks."

I do hope things work for Nick and Sonia if it would make them happy. The world is batshit crazy, we all deserve happiness. I don't think Sonia was a favorite here, but I liked her - she seemed warm and friendly, with a bit of a funny side. I bet she's a good friend.

I like Sonia from day one. She is educated, compassionate and funny

I just hope she didn't settle

the show is so edited you just can't get a real feel for their relationships

[MsPH]

I also think Nick's lack of ring may have been scripted suspense, but it's also possible that he just doesn't like rings and hasn't worn it much since filming ended and thus didn't think of putting it on. I'm female and I hate wearing rings. I can always feel them on my finger and it's not a nice feeling, plus if I have one on, I'm constantly fiddling with it. I don't know what I'll do when/if I get married. I like the symbolism, but the thought of having a ring, let alone two, on my finger all the time makes me really uncomfortbale. Many introverts are also highly sensitive (that includes physically), which could be the case with Nick as well.

Edited November 4, 2016 by MsPH

[Snarklepuss]

15 hours ago, BunnySlippers said:

I don't get it either why they keep talking about how hard marriage is and how much work it is. What's so hard about it? Showing consideration to your spouse? Not being a selfish jerk? Spending time together?

I hate the way they push the word "work" with regard to marriage.  It's not helping the participants any because it's making them feel that marriage is all about obligation and duty, not love.   If you're with someone you care about and want to make a life with them it shouldn't feel like a penance or a life sentence to hard labor, but that's what the (cough) "experts" on this show keep making it sound like, probably because they themselves don't appreciate the fine difference between the "work' involved in a favorite passtime and a duty or obligation.  I love to cook.  Is cooking work?  Well, sort of, but it's a work that to me doesn't feel like work because I get so much enjoyment out of it.  It's the same with a relationship.  If you truly enjoy seeing your partner happy then doing things to ensure that will come from your heart and it won't feel like work at all.  Unfortunately matching complete strangers who don't have much in common nor shared history and emotional attachment doesn't exactly promote that situation, so anything they do to try to establish an emotional bond and/or improve their partner's feelings towards them is bound to feel more like an external obligation than something coming from their heart.  And if you start off with nothing but obligation it's only going to be a real romance killer and actually thwart the very thing the experts think it's going to establish.

Edited November 4, 2016 by Snarklepuss