S06.E05: Street Rats

[Jul 68]

7 hours ago, PreviouslyTV said:

Get it? Because Aladdin. The headlines write themselves, people.

View the full article

I just have to pick a couple of nits to pick with this week's artcle. I can't help myself.

First, let me say that I love the 'Henry Is A Player' section. Quite funny.

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Regina, upon learning that she might be dead (or back to her Dark One ways as Emma's hooded attacker) in The Oracle's vision, heads to her vault to work on an entirely new potion that she just now thought of to help them find Aladdin.

Unless I missed a memo, Regina was never a Dark One.

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A moment later, they catch Jasmine (a.k.a. Shiri, Snow's new teaching assistant) fleeing the scene.

Just a spelling thing here. It's spelled Sharin.

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Archie is along for the ride because, hey, he's getting paid for his services whether Emma chooses to spend her therapy appointment on his couch or not.

DOES Archie get paid? Other than Killian and his doubloons, have we seen anyone use money in Storybrooke? Is there a bank? What would their money look like, I wonder.

.....Sorry. I went down a rabbit hole with that last one.

[Rumsy4]

So, I re-watched the episode, and here are my thoughts after the rewatch:

The romance between Aladdin and Jasmine seemed more a what-could-have-been than anything serious. Which is fine, except that Jasmine seemed more interested in the fact that Aladdin was a savior. But I love Karen David. She and Jafar were the highpoints for me. 

I feel like there should've been a scene between Jasmine and the Oracle, where she directs her to look for Aladdin to help defeat Jafar. Otherwise, it makes no sense that Jasmine would jump to the conclusion that Aladdin was anything, let alone a savior, whatever that is (yeah--whatever a "savior" is is still vague).  The transition from sneak thief to savior was too rapid in Aladdin. After defeating Jafar, he just went off to be a "savior" with no experience, help, and nothing more than a vague job description? Hmmm...

Regina's PoV was the first we got once the scene cut-away from EQ!'s smirk. We didn't get to see Jasmine react to the fact that Aladdin had de-saviored himself either. Why are A&E so allergic to writing scenes where we see people react to things?

The lack of one-on-one scene between Emma and Hook where they talk about the issue of her potential death was a definite negative, as I said before. Maybe it will come up in a future episode, but that doesn't make this episode feel unbalanced. They are a couple now. Group scenes are not enough to discuss major life-changing issues. Emma got a lovely scene with Henry. Her talk with Snow was more about secret keeping than her potential demise. Plus Snow was blathering. So, I wasn't satisfied. Poor Charms didn't get a chance to react separately either.

Regina was sympathetic to Emma, after she got over her mini tantrum over not being in the vision, which was nice. She was comforting to Jasmine too in the crypt. Maybe her empathetic side is coming out now becasue of the split.

I liked the Jasmine and Henry scene.

I think Aladdin still has the heart to save people, even if he cut off his "saviordom". Otherwise, he wouldn't have wanted to help Emma. So, along with Regina learning you can't split away your evil, Emma has to learn that she can't cut away her "savior" status. Both of their arcs are a retread of S4. 

All in all, the episode was a mixed bag. It wasn't terrible. But it wasn't great either. 

Edited October 25, 2016 by Rumsy4

[Dianthus]

I knew going in that this episode was no great shakes (ha-ha), but I was disappointed even so. I wish A & E would stick to exec producer stuff and leave the writing in competent hands.

[InsertWordHere]

2 hours ago, profdanglais said:

Emma looked great in this episode. I loved her pretty blouse and blue jacket, and her hair and makeup were gorgeous.

I thought everyone looked great this episode, particularly Snow and Emma. Emma's hair looked especially princessy. The only wardrobe item I disliked was that jacket/cape thing they put on Zelena. 

[Shanna Marie]

I want to know what it is about Savior status that leads to such doom and death. The hand shakes suggest that it's not just a case of bad things tending to happen to people who rush toward danger rather than away and put themselves in between danger and other people. That would apply to heroes, in general. Being a Savior probably puts a target on your back because the villains are gunning for you, but again, that sort of thing might happen to any hero who becomes known for standing in the way of evil. Is the magic more than a body can really handle, so it burns you up? Do you run out of magic? Emma loses the fight in the vision because she gets the shakes, loses the sword, and then can't fight. Minus the shakes, that seems to be something that could happen to any hero type who got into a fight with people who have magical powers. If Regina had half an ounce of sense, it's something she could have done to Snow and David way back in the past. It's just that a non-magical person wouldn't even have had the option to consider fighting with magic upon losing the sword.

As for Snow, I think that when she read ahead in the script to know that something was up with Emma (since at that time there wasn't a sign of anything that couldn't have been explained by the long trip to and from New York and having her reunion with Hook interrupted) and sent a shrink rather than actually talking to her daughter, she doesn't get to complain that Emma talked about it with the shrink rather than with her. Maybe I'm just too reserved a person, but I don't believe that everyone in my life, including my parents, has an automatic right to know everything that's going on with me. If I got a cancer diagnosis (probably the best real-world equivalent to this), I imagine that I'd have all the tests and talk to the doctors to be absolutely certain what was going on and what I was going to do about it before I talked to my parents about it. It might be different with a husband, but Hook isn't yet her husband. He's only just moved into her house (if he's even moved that trunk over and officially moved in). Where Hook might have a gripe is that he noticed something was up and asked her about it, and she lied. As far as we've seen, Snow never asked her what was going on, so Emma didn't actually lie to her. I also still think that they're overreacting to a vision when her previous vision like this turned out to be wrong and when the interpretation was given to her by someone a villain directed her to.

[Camera One]

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I want to know what it is about Savior status that leads to such doom and death.

Or, as someone else above said, what the heck a Savior even is.  As I asked previously, is Elsa a Savior too, since she too has magic and is a "hero"?

There *should* be a price for magic, but it's so inconsistent.  So Rumple's heart finally failed from all that dark magic, but that was after... several centuries?  Emma uses light magic for 2 years and she's ready to die?  It's beyond idiotic.  I mean, it would explain why the Blue Fairy's reply to everything is "Sorry, can't help you with that", but talk about the usual double standards with heroes vs. villains.

Emma's "secret" coming out was anticlimatic at best, and was just another tiresome, done-before supposedly inspirational group hug where Emma realizes she needs to trust her friends and family who have no frickin' idea how to help her end the shakes, except declaring "We will beat this thing!"  They might as well have ended with a "I Will Survive" dance number.  "With you guys around me, who cares if I die!"  "That's the spirit!"

Edited October 25, 2016 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

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Emma's "secret" coming out was anticlimatic at best, and was just another tiresome, done-before supposedly inspirational group hug where Emma realizes she needs to trust her friends and family who have no frickin' idea how to help her end the shakes, except declaring "We will beat this thing!"  They might as well have ended with a "I Will Survive" dance number.  "With you guys around me, who cares if I die!"  "That's the spirit!"

Because friendship is magic, except when it's not on this show.

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As I asked previously, is Elsa a Savior too, since she too has magic and is a "hero"?

Like I said in All Seasons, you could potentially slot in so many characters as a "Savior". 

[Curio]

8 hours ago, profdanglais said:

More Oded Fehr being evil, please. That is all. 

 

All I want is to see Robert Carlyle and Oded Fehr share a villainous and awesomely acted scene together. Is that too much to ask?

Someone mentioned how the shears even work. Thank. You. This was bugging me so much. Do you have to pluck out a piece of your hair and cut it with the shears? What do you have to cut? Or do you just open and close them three times and say a magical phrase? Can anyone use the shears? Can it only be used by the Savior? But then why mention the shears falling into the wrong hands? Why didn't Jafar use the shears on Aladdin himself? Can the shears be melted down? Why wouldn't Emma choose that option if she wanted them destroyed? A villain could easily retrieve the shears Hook "dropped" into the water. 

Also, what would be so different between current Savior Emma and Normal Emma who cuts away her Saviorness? If Emma was born with magic, wouldn't she still keep that magic even though she's not a Savior with a capital 'S' anymore? Or would using the shears mean she loses all her light magic? Do all Saviors come equipped with light magic? If that's the case, Regina is part-Savior because she blew light magic out of her ass one time. (I don't doubt A&E would go there...they already made her a Savior of the Alternate Universe.) Why can't Emma use the shears and still call herself a savior, but without the capital 'S'? Why couldn't Emma say, "Screw it, I'm taking away this huge burden, but that's not going to stop me from wanting to help people. I'm still Emma Swan, and I'm still going to fight every day to do what's right." Is she afraid of losing her magic? Is the only thing that makes a Savior a Savior their light magic? A&E mentioned they weren't going to delve into Savior mythology as much as they did Dark One mythology last season, but this kind of information is crucial to understanding the show and Emma's character.

Hey, Regina? Henry still probably wouldn't have accepted you as the Evil Queen. It wasn't the lying that pissed him off, even though that probably had something to do with it. Although, with this show's screwed up morality, it wouldn't surprise me if Henry was more pissed off about the lying. "I can't believe you burned down a village and lied about it! I can't tolerate liars, they are worse than murderers."

Oh, and apparently the Evil Queen can kill people in Storybrooke. So what the hell is she doing right now with the Charmings? She easily killed the Oracle off screen, so if she truly wants Emma off the chess board, she's had plenty of opportunities to kill her already. A&E promised that this season's Evil Queen would be the scariest and most villainous version yet, but she comes across as less threatening than a yippy chihuahua. If they didn't want the Evil Queen killing the main characters this season, they should have given her restrictions or made her more like a ghost who can't physically harm people but can mentally torture them. But now that the Evil Queen has been shown to kill someone in Storybrooke, there's absolutely no reason why she can't kill Snow and Emma with the flick of her wrist, and it makes her (and the story) look stupid for not trying harder.

I can't believe this episode was written by the show runners. Actually...I guess I can.

Edited October 25, 2016 by Curio

[PixiePaws1]

3 hours ago, Curio said:

 

Oh, and apparently the Evil Queen can kill people in Storybrooke. So what the hell is she doing right now with the Charmings? She easily killed the Oracle off screen, so if screditly wants Emma off the ches s board, she's had plenty of opportunities to kill her already. A&E promised that this season's Evil Queen would be the scariest and most villainous version yet, but she comes across as less threatening than a yippy chihuahua. If they didn't want the Evil Queen killing the main characters this season, they should have given her restrictions or made her more like a ghost who can't physically harm people but can mentally torture them. But now that the Evil Queen has been shown to kill someone in Storybrooke, there's absolutely no reason why she can't kill Snow and Emma with the flick of her wrist, and it makes her (and the story) look stupid for not trying harder

I'm not convinced the EQ did kill the Oracle...I have never seen original recipe EQ kill in that fashion. It is not outside the realm of possibility 

that Jafar killed her and the EQ is simply taking the credit.

[darkestboy]

The Aladdin/Jasmine/Jafar scenes were great but Aladdin's sort of defeat of Jafar felt too quick until the latter gave him those scissors.

Glad to see Aladdin and Jasmine reunite in this episode. Also guessing that Jafar won't be far behind.

At least everyone knows about Emma's prophecy but did we have to end things with Hook keeping a secret from her? Of course we did but at least they set up the next episode well enough.

Evil Queen and Zelena's spa day was delightfully bizarre along with Archie as the unwilling babysitter as well.

Other than that, not too much seemed to happen in this one, 7/10

[YaddaYadda]

11 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

The transition from sneak thief to savior was too rapid in Aladdin. After defeating Jafar, he just went off to be a "savior" with no experience, help, and nothing more than a vague job description? 

This goes back to season 4 during the Frozen arc when Emma told Elsa "get this, I'm the Savior and I have no clue what it means" or whoever she put it in episode 4x02, and then Anna's kind of "sarcastic question about it being a real job.

Emma was also thrown into this having no idea what it was, and mocked by people like Zelena in season 3, or even Hades in season 5 even though their weakness was light magic.

No one seemed to even know that there were other Saviors out there except for apparently Jafar. EQ disguised as Archie seemed surprised. We don't know what Rumple knows about this either. And Jasmine called Aladdin "the" Savior which implies that she had no idea there could be more than one.

The more I think about the Savior, the more repulsed I am by the idea of it. Emma and Aladdin didn't choose to be the Saviors, instead it's something that was put on them. And they get to pay the price for magic that they use selflessly to assist others and they get to seemingly have horrible deaths. 

There's something really disturbing about this. And I know, A&E are not super subtle with the biblical references, but still, it's depressing as hell.

[Curio]

37 minutes ago, PixiePaws1 said:

I'm not convinced the EQ did kill the Oracle...I have never seen original recipe EQ kill in that fashion. It is not outside the realm of possibility that Jafar killed her and the EQ is simply taking the credit.

I actually did think of that scenario as well. But when I think about those interviews where fans ask A&E questions, I could definitely see them answering the question of, "Did the Evil Queen really kill the Oracle? We didn't see it on screen," with, "Yes. Even though we didn't physically see her do it, we are supposed to believe her when she says she did it. If I were a writer on this show with the power to control story lines, I know I'd like to see the fallout of the Evil Queen killing the Oracle."

[YaddaYadda]

Oracle looked like she had been poisoned with the venom from that Agrabah snake. Her skin was like Charlotte's and we know that Regina had access to that in the 6x02 flashbacks. If anything maybe we've got some continuity here. 

[Arnella]

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All I want is to see Robert Carlyle and Oded Fehr share a villainous and awesomely acted scene together. Is that too much to ask?

That is what I hang on for and would make all this other crap worth it!

[Curio]

6 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

Oracle looked like she had been poisoned with the venom from that Agrabah snake. Her skin was like Charlotte's and we know that Regina had access to that in the 6x02 flashbacks. If anything maybe we've got some continuity here. 

 

Good point, I forgot about Charlotte's death. I also considered that the Oracle has been Jafar all along, and he faked the death to throw people off his trail, but I don't see it going that direction.

[YaddaYadda]

12 minutes ago, Curio said:

Good point, I forgot about Charlotte's death. I also considered that the Oracle has been Jafar all along, and he faked the death to throw people off his trail, but I don't see it going that direction.

I did consider that during 6x01, but then during the episode, they made it a point to show that Oracle's cheek wasn't fully healed from when Jafar threw her against the wall. So she headed to the Land of Untold Stories almost right after it happened. I'm guessing Aladdin cut away his fate, Agrabah fell, he ran to the EF, Oracle and Jasmine went to the Land of Untold Stories, Aladdin got swept up with everyone when Regina cast the curse. 

I think that the characters will leave Storybrooke this season and go to Agrabah. I don't think Jafar is in Storybrooke or will be coming to Storybrooke after watching this episode.

[Curio]

1 hour ago, YaddaYadda said:

 I think that the characters will leave Storybrooke this season and go to Agrabah. I don't think Jafar is in Storybrooke or will be coming to Storybrooke after watching this episode.

 

That's what I've been hoping for, which means it probably won't happen.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Once Upon A Time Introduces A Whole New World

Get it? Because Aladdin. The headlines write themselves, people.

[Shanna Marie]

7 hours ago, Curio said:

A&E promised that this season's Evil Queen would be the scariest and most villainous version yet, but she comes across as less threatening than a yippy chihuahua. If they didn't want the Evil Queen killing the main characters this season, they should have given her restrictions or made her more like a ghost who can't physically harm people but can mentally torture them. But now that the Evil Queen has been shown to kill someone in Storybrooke, there's absolutely no reason why she can't kill Snow and Emma with the flick of her wrist, and it makes her (and the story) look stupid for not trying harder.

Yes, this most terrible villain of all is doing such threatening stuff as having a (gasp!) spa day. We must stop her before she strikes again and has a massage!

Meanwhile, the heroes are playing right into her hands and letting themselves be manipulated into feeling guilty or having conflict with each other.

It would help if we actually knew what the Evil Queen's goal was, specifically. What is she out to do? Does she want them dead? If she wants them dark, why? What good would that do her? She seems to be living in Zelena's hovel. Why isn't she taking over Regina's mansion?

[iMonrey]

I don't understand the Evil Queen's end game either. In the Enchanted Forest it was to rule the kingdom and destroy Snow White. Shouldn't she maybe be trying to reverse the curse and send everyone back to the Enchanted Forest? Or, kill Snow White? Maybe she thinks destroying Emma will be a far worse punishment for Snow White? Who knows?

[Mari]

7 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Or, kill Snow White? Maybe she thinks destroying Emma will be a far worse punishment for Snow White? Who knows?

But, it's not like ether Regina would have memory after memory about Snow and Emma and their fierce bond.  Wouldn't it make more sense to go after Charming or Other Regina? Or convince Snow how horrible the Reginas still feel because of Cora's death?

[Sunny88]

I think this bi-season is going the Christ route. I had a feeling it was as soon as "Saviors inevitability die" was put on the table. Regardless of who is under the hood (maybe they syringe Emma with that good/evil splitting potion and it's her dark half for all we know), Emma may "die" and then, be resurrected.

[Blue Plastic]

I thought Emma was "the Savior" because Rumpel baked it into The Curse for her to be able to break the spell. So it doesn't make sense for Aladdin to also be "a" savior unless Rumple (or some other magical meddler) needed some other spell broken. Do saviors ever come about in any other manner?  I don't suppose TS;TW will ever give an answer.

This episode was so frustrating. Snow is so boneheaded - no secrets?  Really?  Whatever. And now Hook is keeping a secret and skulking around with an annoyed look on his face.

Next ep looks like filler to me, so it's too bad this one wasn't better.

[Marley]

What the hell is with Aladdins accent?

This show is really losing me. I look at my phone thru most of it.

[LaChavalina]

On October 24, 2016 at 0:48 AM, MedievalGirl said:

I thought Aladdin's accent was meant to be cockney-like to emphasize the class distinction. 

I agree, but that was also annoying to me. Why would they have British accents? Is there some sort of problem with having our Middle Eastern characters sound like they're from the Middle East?

On October 24, 2016 at 1:31 AM, Camera One said:

Adam clarified on Twitter that Agrabah is made up of many cities.  Jane said on Twitter that there were more than one Sultan, and this was a different one than the one on "Wonderland" since Jasmine's father can't be Jafar's father.

So, Agrabah is basically the Emirates? 

I also felt a little ripped off that the climactic battle between Aladdin and Jafar was so... anticlimactic. I had to re-watch the opening scene of Ep 6.1 to try and get the continuity on the story. That scene makes it sound like Aladdin was playing the role of savior for a while (possibly years?) and was on the verge of a nervous breakdown before using the shears. He was also holed up with Iago and the Oracle for some reason? Aladdin used to be such a marquee property for Disney, it's bizarre the way they're handling the story. Hopefully the redemption is that we find out Aladdin's real power is his cunning and his desire to do good, not just savior magic.

ETA: Also felt like they were trying to co-opt Simba's story into Aladdin. e.g., bad stuff happens, he fakes his death and runs from destiny, then love & conscience persuade him to return.

Edited October 26, 2016 by LaChavalina

[Camera One]

I feel like the Aladdin/Jasmine parting because of "duty" scene was a lame version of the Charming/Snow parting at the end of "Snow Falls".  Where they both feel for one another, but they can't be together (because... uh, well, there isn't a real reason this time).  Parting, and then the backward glances, etc... it would be romantic if either of them had a personality.  

[KingOfHearts]

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Parting, and then the backward glances, etc... it would be romantic if either of them had a personality.  

Aladdin wasn't really Savior material, imo. We never see his motivation for wanting to help people or be a thief. Jasmine took advantage of him (for a noble cause), and that's not very romantic. 

Edited October 26, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[YaddaYadda]

44 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Aladdin wasn't really Savior material, imo. We never see his motivation for wanting to help people or be a thief. Jasmine took advantage of him (for a noble cause), and that's not very romantic. 

Even after she found him, I question if her crying about him being dead had to do with Aladdin, or with not being able to save the kingdom. And the way she jumped right into saving Agrabah made me not buy her scenes with Henry about putting Aladdin in that Savior position.

The whole thing was just very badly written. 

Thanks A&E. You never cease to amaze.

[Rumsy4]

Their reunion scene sent mixed signals. Jasmine and Aladdin had the romantic hug-lift reunion, but the first thing Jasmine does is to ask him to save Agrabah. They're presumably met after 30 years of Jasmine living in the LoUS with her memories intact, and Aladdin living in Storybrooke under the curse. 

I think A&E wanted to jump to the reveal that Aladdin was no longer the savior, and how it affected their reunion. But as we never saw Aladdin actually confessing his de-saviordom to Jasmine, or her reaction to the confession, it only ended up muddling the intent. Is their romance supposed to be a slow-burn? If so, their meeting was very anti-climactic.

[YaddaYadda]

I get the whole duty got in the way of them and it's not even something that's serving as a lesson for Emma because she made the choice to keep being the Savior and to pay the price for the magic if it came to it.

I think they made a mistake by not having Aladdin and Jasmine already romantically involved. It wouldn't have changed Aladdin making that decision of not wanting to be the Savior and fleeing to the EF where he gets swept up in the curse.

[Rumsy4]

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I think they made a mistake by not having Aladdin and Jasmine already romantically involved. It wouldn't have changed Aladdin making that decision of not wanting to be the Savior and fleeing to the EF where he gets swept up in the curse.

Or at least, have had the romance start in Storybrooke. The first words out of Jasmine's mouth should have been about being happy he was alive, and apologizing for putting him in the path of an early death. And why are the writers so allergic to showing people's reactions to important reveals?!!

[Shanna Marie]

52 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

I think A&E wanted to jump to the reveal that Aladdin was no longer the savior, and how it affected their reunion. But as we never saw Aladdin actually confessing his de-saviordom to Jasmine, or her reaction to the confession, it only ended up muddling the intent. Is their romance supposed to be a slow-burn? If so, their meeting was very anti-climactic.

I feel like we're missing a huge chunk of story. Surely Aladdin did more stuff and maybe saw Jasmine again between the time we saw them part in this episode and the time we saw him hiding out with the shakes. That one little encounter we saw in this episode didn't seem like enough to build to the emotions she had in the present.

The cut away before he told her was just bizarre. Are we going to pick up there later? Do we have to guess at what he told her and how she reacted? Though going by the fact that he supposedly lost his Savior status and yet they were able to track him by Savior magic, maybe the key is that he didn't actually stop being a Savior, so he didn't tell that, and that's going to be a surprise reveal later.

[daxx]

Perhaps they had to backtrack a bit on the romance between Alladin and Jasmine due to a lack of chemistry between the actors. I certainly didn't feel it at least.

[superloislane]

Just because I saw people saying no one went to look for Archie here and in another thread - Snow and Charming came into the apartment near the end and said 'We came as soon as we could. Still no sign of Archie'. So Snow and Charming had gone out to look for Archie while the others went looking for Aladdin

[Camera One]

1 minute ago, superloislane said:

Just because I saw people saying no one went to look for Archie here and in another thread - Snow and Charming came into the apartment near the end and said 'We came as soon as we could. Still no sign of Archie'. So Snow and Charming had gone out to look for Archie while the others went looking for Aladdin

I totally missed that.  I'm glad a search happened at least.  Not surprised Snow and Charming got to do this important off-screen work.

[Camera One]

So I am assuming that when Snow and Charming were looking for Archie, they talked about their fear of losing Emma again and their guilt over another friend being the target of The Evil Queen.  They also dropped by Blue to find out if she knew anything about Savior Lore.

[Camera One]

So I was thinking about this episode from Aladdin's POV.  

So he had a friend at the Sheriff's station who just happened to mention to him that Princess Jasmine was in Storybrooke.  So he goes to a random crypt and puts the scarab there to fake his death (even though Jasmine would never have randomly wandered in there), at the exact time that Emma and the others arrive, so he hides in the shadows?

Alternatively he knew Jasmine had gone to the Land of Untold Stories, and he has been hiding out at the crypt for days, with no guarantees that Jasmine would ever go there?

Edited October 29, 2016 by Camera One

[Shanna Marie]

8 minutes ago, Camera One said:

So he had a friend at the Sheriff's station who just happened to mention to him that Princess Jasmine was in Storybrooke.  So he goes to a random crypt and puts the scarab there to fake his death (even though Jasmine would never have randomly wandered in there), at the exact time that Emma and the others arrive, so he hides in the shadows?

Possibly he was stalking them and watching what they were doing all along, saw that they were tracking Savior magic, worried that meant they would find him, so he went to the crypt and left the scarab, then hid nearby. The fact that he was hiding there ensured they'd find the body, but by leaving the scarab by the body, he was throwing him off his trail, since they'd assume that's where the trail ended and they wouldn't keep tracking. If he left the crypt before they got there, they would have tracked him wherever he went rather than finding the scarab. He had to stay close enough to the red herring body for them to give up tracking him.

At least, that's my logic. They didn't show or tell how he knew he needed to get them off his trail by faking his death. And we also don't know how they tracked his Savior magic if he's no longer a Savior (maybe it leaves a residue?).

[Camera One]

That's the only way it could have happened, but it's too much of a stretch for me.  How long has he been stalking and tracking them?  Regina talked to Emma about the spell to track Savior magic inside their crypt, so he wouldn't have heard that (yes, I suppose they could have been talking about it in the forest).  If he was following them rather than the other way around, why would Emma say "We're getting close" and then point the way of the crypt?  Wouldn't she have sensed he was "close" when he was following them?  

Edited October 29, 2016 by Camera One

[Shanna Marie]

6 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Regina talked to Emma about the spell to track Savior magic inside their crypt, so he wouldn't have heard that (yes, I suppose they could have been talking about it in the forest).  If he was following them rather than the other way around, why would Emma say "We're getting close" and then point the way of the crypt?

Yeah, him running to hide in the crypt so they'd find what he wanted them to believe was his body requires him knowing that they were tracking him magically in a way that would find him, so either they were getting close enough to him at some point that he could overhear them, and from there he took off running to the crypt, or he had some other reason to go hide in the crypt. Maybe he got tipped off when they were doing the searches with the things they thought were his belongings but that weren't because he'd stolen them (though where they got his belongings when they didn't know he was living in Storybrooke is another question). He could have found out about them tracking him that way and went to hide then, since he did probably have at least something of his in Storybrooke, given that he'd been there all along. He didn't have to know exactly how they were magically tracking him, whether through a belonging or Savior magic, just that they were likely to find him eventually if they used magic, so he needed a way to throw them off. People looking for things belonging to him might have been a good enough tip that he needed a red herring.

I wonder how long you have to own something before it counts as yours, magically. If nothing they tried worked because he'd stolen it all, were those things Jasmine had from him, so he hadn't owned them long and hadn't had them in a very long time? Would they have worked if he'd bought them, even if he'd given them to Jasmine? Emma stole the bug more than ten years ago, but would it work as a way to magically track her, or would it not work because she stole it? What about Hook and the Jolly Roger? He technically stole her from the navy and had her for more than a century, and then he sold her to Blackbeard, and then Elsa took her away from Blackbeard and Hook more or less stole her back. Or I guess you could say Ursula stole her from Elsa and then gave her to Hook, since Ursula summoned her (though I'm sure Elsa would be glad to give her to Hook if she'd known the ship was his before Blackbeard had her). So, in terms of magic, who owns her? If you used her for a tracking spell, would she go to Hook, to Blackbeard, to Elsa, to a descendant of the king Hook stole her from, to a naval base for that kingdom (if it still exists)? Or does the spell not take you to the owner, but rather you tell the spell to take you to a person, and if the item doesn't really belong to that person, it just sits there, rather than going to its owner?

[YaddaYadda]

Maybe he wasn't tracking them and just heard the voices, recognized Jasmine's and before they showed up, he placed the scarab next to that skeleton and hid.

[Dianthus]

It's sad to think how much thought all of us give to what's happening in the show, considering how little thought is given by the folk's who are paid good money to do so. I know they're under time constraints and such, but this is f*cking crazy.

[Mathius]

I rewatched recently, and it caught my attention that after Jasmine congratulated him on saving the Sultan and Agrabah, Aladdin said "Well...I had some help, but don't tell anyone. My reputation and all that."  Was that a hint toward the Genie?  Before he came flying in on a magic carpet to save the day, we last saw Aladdin left behind in the Cave of Wonders.  Did he find the Genie there and get the magic carpet or instant transportation to the palace from him?  Filming spoilers do show Aladdin showing Jasmine a lamp in Storybrooke, so this might be the case.

[andromeda331]

How does Storybrooke have random crypts? Shouldn't they know who it belongs too? Therefore making it hard for it be random? Or pretend one is someone else? Shouldn't all of the bodies in the cemetery or crypts be accounted for and only be ones who died in the last six years in Storybrooke? Or are these more bodies brought over by Regina in the first curse? Zelena in the second curse? Did they just get swept up in the Curse and come with?  

[AudienceofOne]

That episode was tedious. I was genuinely bored. The moments I wasn't bored it was because I was grappling with the weird English caste system thing they had going on with the accents. Having that actor dressed as if he was from a film set in Persia speaking with that lower-class English accent was just... no. Terrible. And boring to boot.

[Shanna Marie]

Rewatching this one had me yelling at the screen for numerous reasons. For one, how many times have these idiots been fooled by the villain pretending to be someone they trust? Just off the top of my head, there was Cora pretending to be Lancelot, Cora pretending to be Regina, Zelena pretending to be Ariel, Rumple pretending to be Hook, Zelena pretending to be Marian, and for bonus, there was Cora making the random murder victim look like Archie. You'd think they'd have learned by now to be more careful. They should have a whole system of passwords and verify a person's identity before they discuss sensitive info or if a person is acting at all odd. Archie should have mutual passwords with each patient, so that the patient can verify Archie's identity before spilling their guts and so that Archie can verify the patient's identity before bringing up anything from past sessions. The moment Archie barged into Snow's apartment and started to bring up Emma's sessions, she should have said, "Wait, what's the password?" Or, really, when he showed up at her car and started asking questions, she should have demanded the password. As Mad-Eye Moody would say, "Constant vigilance!"

Though I suppose it depends on how the glamour thing works. Zelena seemed to get an instant infusion of all knowledge from the person she was copying, since she was able to perfectly imitate people she'd never actually met and knew nothing about. If it works like that, then the passwords would be pointless because the imitator would know them. But then if that's the case, Evil Queen-as-Archie wouldn't have needed to ask Emma questions. She would already have known everything. And it would certainly make figuring out what people are up to easier. Just cast a glamour spell and temporarily become that person, and then you know all!

Then there's the Savior thing. I don't feel like the writers have any idea how it works. They seemed to be cribbing from Buffy, just change Slayer to Savior. Except on Buffy, the Slayers didn't die young because of some sort of destiny/prophecy thing in which they suddenly became helpless. They tended to die young because fighting vampires is dangerous. And I noticed that they didn't specify "young" when talking about Saviors here. They just said that it's the fate of all Saviors to die. Hello, it's the fate of everyone to die. The difference is when. I'm not sure what the deal with the shaky hands is supposed to be or where it comes from, but since that seems to stop the Savior from effectively using magic, why is severing the Savior fate such a bad thing? They already can't do anything and are more or less helpless. Staying as Savior just means they'll die, but they won't be able to do anything before they die. And if Aladdin got rid of his Savior status and, apparently, his magic, how did Regina's spell work to link Emma's magic to Aladdin's? He's not the Savior anymore, so they aren't alike.

Nothing about this story line makes any sense.

[tennisgurl]

The extreme vagueness of the Savior prophesy just makes it laughably stupid instead of foreboding, especially as it’s apparently so scary that it leads to the hand shakes and Aladdin becoming a hermit or whatever. “The Savior...will DIE!!!” Like, yeah, at some point they presumably will, most of them seem to be just normal people with a normal lifespan and stuff. It’s not even saying they’ll die young or unloved or violently, it’s just like “well, yeah they’ll die, they aren’t Middle Earth elves or some shit.”