Donald John Trump: 2016 President-Elect

[needschocolate]

2 hours ago, Rapunzel said:

The man is a pig through and through and why any woman, Kellyanne Conway, Ann Coulter, the "Women for Trump" people, etc., would support him is just completely beyond me. He is not "Going to Make America Great Again." He is going to turn American into the Great Dictatorship and start removing rights from women and minorities the first chance he gets. He's also going to destroy our diplomatic relations, ruin our economy, our education system, etc. I hate to think who his cabinet would be made up of.

I can't wrap my head around how anyone - male of female - can support him.  I get how things might have been different in the beginning, when the other republican leaders and office-seekers and much of the media let him get away with almost everything.  And I understand how some people may be conflicted - they don't like Trump, but are afraid Clinton's policies will be bad for them personally.  And, I guess I sort of understand how, if you have been a diehard republican all your life and vowed to always vote republican, you plan to vote for him - not because you like him, but because you want republicans to have the power.  But, this late into the election, after all the fact-checking showing he's a liar, all the speaking without actually saying anything, all the proof that he doesn't understand how government works, all of his nasty comments, all the allegations, how anyone can actually think he's a guy worth cheering for, well, I just don't get it. 

 

2 hours ago, car54 said:

Annnnnd the Trump nightly news is now a thing on Facebook.

Trump’s Campaign Is Launching a Nightly News Show on Facebook

I am sure it will be completely unbiased (/sarcasm).  I imagine it will be nothing but highlights of Trumps imagined accomplishments and "in depth" reporting of the awfulness of anyone he doesn't like. 

I vow to never watch it.  I urge everyone to turn off the autoplay function on any device you use to view Facebook because a video only has to play for 3 seconds to count as a view on Facebook (to be a view on Youtube, it has to play for 30 seconds)  In other words, you scroll down your newsfeed and the Trump  "news report" your wacky uncle "liked" starts playing and you take 4 seconds to stop it, it will count as a view and Trump will take it as a sign of his popularity.  

[ariel]

On ‎10‎/‎23‎/‎2016 at 0:00 AM, millennium said:

 

 

Dubya's election was a national rebuke against Clinton.   Shrub was elected only because many Democrats became so disgusted with Clinton that they voted against Gore in protest.  

 

That's not true. Bill Clinton was very popular when he left office & probably would have been re-elected if he could have run for a third term.

[Padma]

3 hours ago, Rapunzel said:

...I keep asking myself why this man isn't in jail. As I've mentioned in a few posts, it is a shame they can't tie him to the Putin/Russia/WikiLeaks stuff and at least get him on election fraud. Also, why can't they do something about the abuse of his charity? Do they not have enough proof yet? Can President Obama appoint a "Special Prosecutor" or something or is it too late in the game? I know some are looking into certain things at the state level, but  can't it be reviewed at the Federal Level as well? It just seems like there is something we should be able to do as he is the one who belongs in jail, not Hillary.

I never hear anything about Trump's mother - anybody know anything about her or his relationship with her? Just wondering if this contributes at all to his behavior towards women in particular.

This man just cannot win the election. That's all there is to it. Please get out there and vote and help keep this "bad hombre" out of office.

I so wish he could be arrested and charged with something. Of course, his supporters would only see it as political retribution from a crooked system against a good, honest man.  I realize few of them know about his three upcoming fraud trials, much less the rape trial. If the situation were reversed, and Bill Clinton had that baggage as the Democratic candidate, you can bet that all of America would know about it.  Republicans do "dirt" so darn well.

About his mother, I knew a little from reading some of DT's biographies. She was born in Scotland, on the Isle of Lewis, born Mary Macleod, and came to the U.S. at 17, supporting herself working as a maid. She met Fred Trump at a party when she was 18 (he was 30). Apparently she was very pretty and personable--he was a self-made millionaire by then having gone to work building garages etc. when he was 16 and his father died. He partnered with his mother (Donald's grandmother) because he was still too young to sign contracts. They had three children when Donald was born and moved to a two-lot house with 9 bathrooms (and live-in maid and chauffeur) that Fred designed in Jamaica Estates by the time Donald was born.

His mother seemed like a traditional wife and mother for her time (and with her means). Donald was the only one of the five children who was sent away to boarding school--NY Military Academy where he stayed from 8th grade through high school. His mother said she wouldn't have done it for the other children but he needed it and "could handle it."  She lived to 88. Her New York Times obituary describes a lot of philanthropy, which is surprising given how stingy Donald is:

Mrs. Trump was the mainstay of the Women's Auxiliary of Jamaica Hospital and of the Jamaica Day Nursery. The Trumps were also active in the Salvation Army, the Boy Scouts of America and the Lighthouse for the Blind, among others. A pavilion at Jamaica Hospital Medical Center bears their name. They also gave buildings to the National Kidney Foundation of New York/ New Jersey and to Community Mainstreaming Associates of Great Neck, N.Y., which provides homes for the disabled. 

[Kitty Redstone]

Lawrence O'Donnell was positively giddy tonight.  Not only did he get mentioned in the NYT list of people that Donald has insulted on Twitter, one of his guests was a lawyer who has pledged his services (for free) to any of the women coming forward who may need it if Donald stupidly takes legal action.  That guy was awesome, and said is was essential that attorneys stand up to Donald the tyrant.

2 hours ago, Advance35 said:

Good Lord, I'm beginning to think the Republican's should just call themselves "The Injustice League".   So this equates to Donald framing the DNC for framing him?!?!?! 

No doubt the Project Veritas thing was similarly staged.  These people really are amateur provocateurs.

2 hours ago, needschocolate said:

I can't wrap my head around how anyone - male of female - can support him.  I get how things might have been different in the beginning, when the other republican leaders and office-seekers and much of the media let him get away with almost everything.  And I understand how some people may be conflicted - they don't like Trump, but are afraid Clinton's policies will be bad for them personally.  And, I guess I sort of understand how, if you have been a diehard republican all your life and vowed to always vote republican, you plan to vote for him - not because you like him, but because you want republicans to have the power.  But, this late into the election, after all the fact-checking showing he's a liar, all the speaking without actually saying anything, all the proof that he doesn't understand how government works, all of his nasty comments, all the allegations, how anyone can actually think he's a guy worth cheering for, well, I just don't get it.

Michael Moore's explanation makes as much sense as any.  He describes the white, working class Donald supporters that he's met as being so angry at the system, and so frustrated and powerless, that they want to see the whole thing go down.  The orange menace is their Molotov cocktail. 

[Rapunzel]

Had a good post written about the pro bono work I do as an attorney around immigration, women's issues, humanitarian issues, etc. and how I wouldn't hesitate to take on a case against Trump or one of his companies if it had reasonable merit, but have been having major technical issues posting tonight and lost all of it.

I tried to post it multiple times to no avail. Mods, I have reported this issue in the past yet it appears that it is still not fixed.

Edited October 25, 2016 by Rapunzel
Technical issues posting

[candall]

Hi Rapunzel, me too.  There's somewhat of a chilling effect on commenting when you invest a certain amount of thought and time and then hold your breath that it will post.

 

I just lost the quotes I was responding to, but:

No, of course none of these Trump atrocities are being effectively disseminated, either in the media or in the Democratic campaign materials.  I watch political news about six hours a day and I find out more from this thread than anywhere else.  The Dems are notorious for being lousy campaigners.  Every damn election, the GOP deals out blow after blow and the Dems go into defense mode to try and clarify the reality.  I wonder, for the millionth time, why the sharpest strategists-for-hire don't ever seem to work for my team.

For example, I keep bumping into references to this rape trial and the mentions are all relatively low key, like an entry in the list of upcoming litigation events for our potential President.  Or it's mentioned in the context of "scheduling his rape trial so as not to interfere with either Election Day or the Inauguration, if necessary."

I know the details of the incident are bizarre, but regardless, if the allegations had been made against a Dem instead of Trump, the words CHILD + RAPE + TRIAL would be permanently seared by now into the cerebral cortex of every American.

[FartyPants]

16 minutes ago, candall said:

I wonder, for the millionth time, why the sharpest strategists-for-hire don't ever seem to work for my team.

Just as sharpest comedians don't ever seem to work for the other team. That would be a good research topic for someone. Why certain skills are co-related to your liberal or conservative view points

[MulletorHater]

Well, in this morning's news, it seems that Don the Con is at it again.  It certainly leads credence to Rachel Maddow's claim that his campaign is nothing but one big money making scheme to line his pockets:

Trump's Donors Paying for Stuff

Unfortunately, a lot of voters don't read FEC filings.  I can't help but wonder if Drumpf's blue collar donors will even care that they are being fleeced by this con man to finance his lavish lifestyle while they are barely making ends meet.  Wait...what am I saying?  If scandals like child rape, sexual molestation of women, getting his rocks off by walking into beauty pageant contestants' dressing rooms, mocking a physically challenged journalist, going in on the Khan family, etc. doesn't turn them off, why should this?  

SMDH...

[KerleyQ]

11 hours ago, maraleia said:

Of course they did. Have I said how much I hate Julian Assange lately?

When his supporters were whining about Ecuador cutting off his internet access, I was laughing.  Gee, a country didn't want to be involved in a guest of their embassy utilizing their resources to interfere in another country's electoral process?  I'm shocked.  Hey, Julian?  I'm sure if you wander on out of the embassy, you can find yourself any number of internet cafes or hotels with wi-fi.  Oh, what's that?  You're hiding out to avoid being arrested for rape?  Hey, maybe you can see if Roman Polanski's place has wi-fi.  It feels so damn odd to respect March Rubio, but at least he's taken a stand that he will not discuss anything related to the leaked hacks.  

So the Trump camp and his supporters have found a new thing to bitch about - "biased sampling." I could not stop laughing when I saw that start popping up.  His campaign and his supporters constitute one big echo chamber.  Nothing filters in that doesn't confirm their preconceived notions, and they're talking about sampling bias?  And then Trump will praise any poll from Breitbart or its ilk that shows him leading.  Like that isn't the ultimate in sampling bias?  

That reminds me of something else I meant to bring up before.  His supporters claim that, because he draws such "huge" crowds at his rallies, that means he's really winning.  I think the reason his crowds are so big while he's still losing is that his support base is very, very involved and vocal.  I think that, when it comes to voters attending rallies, he has a much higher participating rate than other candidates.  It would be interesting to compare the rally attendee to voter ratio for him compared to other candidates.  I'd bet his ratio is much higher.  Of course there's also the other angle to his rally numbers - he's been inflating them since the primaries.  I have a few family members who braved one of his rallies about a month ago, because one of them needed to write a column on it.  His people employ various tricks to make it seem like a larger, more devout crowd than there really is.  It started with the line to get in.  They were only letting a small number of people in at a time in order to maintain a line waiting out in the street, making it look like the demand to get in was more than it really was.  Once they got in, there were staffers working through the crowds, rearranging them for the best visual impact, both in terms of making it look more crowded and making sure that people in the best camera sight lines had the preferred signs.  They are pros at making it look like a full arena when it's not even half full.  That's not to say that he absolutely never has a full arena, he's had a few, but his people use the overhead pictures from those arenas, that show them full, and post them on social media days, weeks, months later, claiming that they're pictures from that day's rally.  His sons have been busted on that one more than once (the most prominent I can think of is Mark Cuban busting him trying to pass the Dallas arena where the Mavericks play off as an arena in Florida).  

[Frost]

The more I think about it, the more pissed off I am about Donald's nonsensical "I will keep you in suspense" jibber jabber.  He's going to do his best to steal the spotlight from Hillary's historic presidential win with his will he/won't he concede ridiculousness and the idiotic media is going to let him!  I can just envision election night with hordes of reporters gathered around Trump Tower filling the airwaves with endless talk about the threat to the peaceful transition of power, giving Donald what he wants more than anything in the world - his very own spotlight.  When they should be ignoring the big, fat loser and covering Hillary's acceptance speech! 

I don't believe the media is 'rigging' this election but they certainly share the blame for how base and shallow it is.  You would think they would have learned their lesson the whole 'birther' speech that was actually an advertisement for his new hotel.  I am going to write to the major networks (hopefully I can figure out the right people to write to) and ask them to practice responsible journalism and give our newly elected president the respect - and news coverage - she deserves.

[needschocolate]

6 hours ago, Rapunzel said:

I tried to post it multiple times to no avail. Mods, I have reported this issue in the past yet it appears that it is still not fixed.

 

2 hours ago, candall said:

Hi Rapunzel, me too.  There's somewhat of a chilling effect on commenting when you invest a certain amount of thought and time and then hold your breath that it will post.

I just lost the quotes I was responding to, but:

 

Maybe Trump has asked Putin to hack into PTV....."Hey, Vladimir, those people are being mean to me"

[Nidratime]

Quote

That reminds me of something else I meant to bring up before.  His supporters claim that, because he draws such "huge" crowds at his rallies, that means he's really winning.

It never occurs to Trump or his rally attendees that he has to *also* get the support of people who can't/won't attend rallies. Not to say that everyone that attends a rally, whether his or anyone else's, has nothing better to do. But, come on! Plenty of people work or have other responsibilities and can't take time off to attend a rally, especially waiting in a line, possibly standing through countless introductory speeches while waiting for the candidate to appear. So, yeah, Donald, your rallies are not the whole electorate. They're not even the whole Republican Party.

[backformore]

1 hour ago, KerleyQ said:

That reminds me of something else I meant to bring up before.  His supporters claim that, because he draws such "huge" crowds at his rallies, that means he's really winning.  I think the reason his crowds are so big while he's still losing is that his support base is very, very involved and vocal.  I think that, when it comes to voters attending rallies, he has a much higher participating rate than other candidates.  It would be interesting to compare the rally attendee to voter ratio for him compared to other candidates.  I'd bet his ratio is much higher.  Of course there's also the other angle to his rally numbers - he's been inflating them since the primaries.  I have a few family members who braved one of his rallies about a month ago, because one of them needed to write a column on it.  His people employ various tricks to make it seem like a larger, more devout crowd than there really is.  It started with the line to get in.  They were only letting a small number of people in at a time in order to maintain a line waiting out in the street, making it look like the demand to get in was more than it really was.  Once they got in, there were staffers working through the crowds, rearranging them for the best visual impact, both in terms of making it look more crowded and making sure that people in the best camera sight lines had the preferred signs.  They are pros at making it look like a full arena when it's not even half full.  That's not to say that he absolutely never has a full arena, he's had a few, but his people use the overhead pictures from those arenas, that show them full, and post them on social media days, weeks, months later, claiming that they're pictures from that day's rally.  His sons have been busted on that one more than once (the most prominent I can think of is Mark Cuban busting him trying to pass the Dallas arena where the Mavericks play off as an arena in Florida).  

Yes, it brings me back to the famous escalator descent when Trump announced his candidacy.  It seems like a lifetime ago.  I recall people posting "casting calls", for crowd scenes, out-of-work actor wannabes being paid to show up and cheer.   And Trump's first words were "look at this crowd."  I think he gives it away when he brags about his supporters.  He points to his twitter followers, when he has a lot of people "following"  his tweets just to post and make fun.  There was also an article that many of his followers are not actual people at all, but "bots". 

[random chance]

I follow him because I want to know what his latest insanity is, not because I'm going to vote for him.

[starri]

1 hour ago, KerleyQ said:

That reminds me of something else I meant to bring up before.  His supporters claim that, because he draws such "huge" crowds at his rallies, that means he's really winning.

Ask Bernie supporters how that correlates.

Also, Joan Walsh attended one of his rallies and discovered it was a lot less yuge than he claims.

[StatisticalOutlier]

11 hours ago, Padma said:

Donald was the only one of the five children who was sent away to boarding school--NY Military Academy where he stayed from 8th grade through high school. His mother said she wouldn't have done it for the other children but he needed it and "could handle it." 

I suspect she was the one who actually needed it.

[Rapunzel]

I saw on some online site (I can't remember which one, but it was a credible paper or something) where someone had posted a video of one of his rallies (I believe it was in NH or ME) that they secretly took with their cell phone. From the camera viewpoint, this person was sitting in a far back corner of the room (looked like the back right corner if you were facing the stage). There were plenty of empty seats up close to the front and plenty of empty seats in, what appeared to be, a rather tiny venue. It looked like there were 15 - 20 people in attendance there at best.

There was a woman at the speech/rally, whatever it was, and all you could see was the back of her head as she was sitting almost right in front of the person with the cell phone. She had long hair that was all grey, so I figured she could be in her 50s or 60s, but never saw her face. Anyway, she kept saying how much support she had for Trump and his main topic of conversation, by the way, seemed to be all about the women accusing him of sexual assault and harassment and how it wasn't true - I think he used his favorite line about the one woman basically being too ugly to warrant any attention from him anyway. This woman in attendance at the speech said something to the effect that women often say far worse things than he has ever said and that no one should be upset by any of his comments. Her constant words of encouragement and the way she put down women just made me want to vomit. How can people be so blind and so ignorant as to think that this orange asshole is going to do anything to help anyone other than himself? Again, he's making some promises right now (which people will find out very quickly are false if that bastard gets elected, which won't happen because, again, I believe most registered voters are smarter than that) that appeal to a certain mindset and to those that feel marginalized by their country because they aren't getting everything they believe they are "entitled" to and Trump is convincing them it is being stolen by immigrants and the like. If they vote for Trump, they aren't going to get these "entitlements" either. Things are, in fact, likely to get worse for them rather than better.

[atomationage]

When Drumpf appeared at an African-American church, it was almost completely empty.

[MulletorHater]

4 minutes ago, atomationage said:

When Drumpf appeared at an African-American church, it was almost completely empty.

Wait...is this the same church where the female pastor shut his ass down and he meekly went to his seat without a further peep?

If it is, this is also the same church where he claimed the crowd chanted, "Let him speak!" which of course was a bunch of B.S.

[atomationage]

2 minutes ago, MulletorHater said:

Wait...is this the same church where the female pastor shut his ass down and he meekly went to his seat without a further peep?

IIRC, it was the church in Flint, not the one in Detroit.

[Revlonred]

I have many friends who are having difficulty maintaining friendships with trump supporters.  A few weeks ago I had to have a very uncomfortable conversation with a dear friend, a life long republican, about who she would be voting for.  I just could not speak with her and not know - it truly says something about character, I think.  While she assures me that she is not voting for trump, a part of me just thinks she is too embarrassed to admit it.  I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that this election (and I use that term loosely because I'm not sure what to call this whole mess that trump created and stars in) is causing much deeper problems than any has ever before.  (And I wanted to scratch my eyes out over Bush stealing the election.)  Facebook has become a horrible place where all of a sudden somebody that you never thought would, posts pro trump stupidity.  And then you're like, OH NO!

[ChromaKelly]

58 minutes ago, Nidratime said:

It never occurs to Trump or his rally attendees that he has to *also* get the support of people who can't/won't attend rallies. Not to say that everyone that attends a rally, whether his or anyone else's, has nothing better to do. But, come on! Plenty of people work or have other responsibilities and can't take time off to attend a rally, especially waiting in a line, possibly standing through countless introductory speeches while waiting for the candidate to appear. So, yeah, Donald, your rallies are not the whole electorate. They're not even the whole Republican Party.

Ha! And don't they make fun of protestors for having no job and nothing to do in the middle of a weekday?
 

3 minutes ago, Revlonred said:

I have many friends who are having difficulty maintaining friendships with trump supporters.  A few weeks ago I had to have a very uncomfortable conversation with a dear friend, a life long republican, about who she would be voting for.  I just could not speak with her and not know - it truly says something about character, I think.  While she assures me that she is not voting for trump, a part of me just thinks she is too embarrassed to admit it.  I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that this election (and I use that term loosely because I'm not sure what to call this whole mess that trump created and stars in) is causing much deeper problems than any has ever before.  (And I wanted to scratch my eyes out over Bush stealing the election.)  Facebook has become a horrible place where all of a sudden somebody that you never thought would, posts pro trump stupidity.  And then you're like, OH NO!

I don't think I could continue an actual friendship with a Trump supporter. I would feel like they are against my family. I still have some FB friends who are Trump supporters but they are peripheral people, high school friends, former co-workers, one ex-boyfriend that makes me glad I dodged that bullet. I didn't know he was that stupid or racist.

[Revlonred]

I couldn't maintain a friendship either, which is why I really hope that she was telling me the truth.  I agree - I feel like if you support him, then you are against my family, and what is right.  Usually things are not so black and white, right and wrong, but I really think this is.  Everything about him is WRONG.

[DollEyes]

59 minutes ago, starri said:

 Joan Walsh attended one of his rallies and discovered it was a lot less yuge than he claims.

  I'm guessing that that's not the only thing about Trump that's much smaller than he says. 

Edited October 25, 2016 by DollEyes

[starri]

1 minute ago, ChromaKelly said:

I don't think I could continue an actual friendship with a Trump supporter. I would feel like they are against my family. I still have some FB friends who are Trump supporters but they are peripheral people, high school friends, former co-workers, one ex-boyfriend that makes me glad I dodged that bullet. I didn't know he was that stupid or racist.

I haven't asked my family yet.  My father has indicated way before a presidential run was even on the horizon that he hated Trump, but he and my stepmother loathe Hillary and have for a long time.  I honestly don't know if I could continue a relationship if I knew for sure, especially because 2/3rds of his children are LGBT.

[MulletorHater]

10 minutes ago, Revlonred said:

I have many friends who are having difficulty maintaining friendships with trump supporters.  A few weeks ago I had to have a very uncomfortable conversation with a dear friend, a life long republican, about who she would be voting for.  I just could not speak with her and not know - it truly says something about character, I think.  While she assures me that she is not voting for trump, a part of me just thinks she is too embarrassed to admit it.  I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that this election (and I use that term loosely because I'm not sure what to call this whole mess that trump created and stars in) is causing much deeper problems than any has ever before.  (And I wanted to scratch my eyes out over Bush stealing the election.)  Facebook has become a horrible place where all of a sudden somebody that you never thought would, posts pro trump stupidity.  And then you're like, OH NO!

I simply couldn't do it.  The Republican friends I have are all to a man--or woman--NeverTrumpers who are shocked and appalled by what is going on.  They are either not voting for the first time in their lives, or voting for Secretary Clinton (with deep sadness--LOL!).

My husband was talking to a colleague one day who was going on about how brilliant a businessman Drumpf is based on what he read in The Art of the Deal.  All I could do was grab my drink from the table, get up, politely excuse myself and walk away.  I just didn't have the time or energy to argue that the book was ghostwritten by a writer who warned the American public months ago about what a sociopath Drumpf is.  Nor, did I want to mention the numerous business failures, the multiple bankruptcies, the lawsuits, and the stiffing of contractors and vendors.  Fortunately, we were on a cruise and there were a ton of other people for me to talk to.

One of my co-workers wanted to know what my sister and other New Yorkers were saying about Drumpf.  As my sister stated, they aren't surprised because Drumpf was a known quantity to them for decades.  If anything, they were wondering why everyone else was surprised.  Even if I didn't know anything else about this cretin, his malicious and ongoing efforts to delegitimize President Obama told me everything I needed to know.  If that is something a friend or relative supports, then I have my answer because I know where they stand on everything else.  My attitude is, it was nice knowing you but I just can't.

[Frost]

I can't categorically condemn a Donald supporter.  I despise the man himself.  I think the vast majority of his supporters are misguided and a much smaller number are alt right nutjobs.   There are people who are facing some desperate economic times and are scared and angry.  The fact that they think Donald will help them is illogical to me but doesn't make me shun them.  The alt right nutjobs?  I have no problem shunning them.  :-) 

[formerlyfreedom]

8 hours ago, Rapunzel said:

Had a good post written about the pro bono work I do as an attorney around immigration, women's issues, humanitarian issues, etc. and how I wouldn't hesitate to take on a case against Trump or one of his companies if it had reasonable merit, but have been having major technical issues posting tonight and lost all of it.

I tried to post it multiple times to no avail. Mods, I have reported this issue in the past yet it appears that it is still not fixed.

 

3 hours ago, candall said:

Hi Rapunzel, me too.  There's somewhat of a chilling effect on commenting when you invest a certain amount of thought and time and then hold your breath that it will post.

 

1 hour ago, needschocolate said:

Maybe Trump has asked Putin to hack into PTV....."Hey, Vladimir, those people are being mean to me"

 

FYI, this is a known bug that is being discussed over here. As Dave says at the end of the topic, please report there, and not in forums. When it happened to me last night, I was able to copy and paste, but for now, if you have a long-ish post, you might want to copy it before trying to post.

[Guest]

I have a handful of friends who are voting for Trump. They're awesome people generally and none of could be categorized as alt-right loons (they don't even know what "alt-right" means). It's not that they even like Trump - it's just that they hate Hillary more. A few of my other Republican friends aren't voting for president at all. 

I suspect my racist family members who I stopped speaking to years ago are loving up everything Trump says. 

[Nidratime]

Quote

There are people who are facing some desperate economic times and are scared and angry.

I respect people who feel things are going wrong for them as citizens in this country and are holding political leaders responsible. However, I *don't* understand why they don't hold them *all* responsible, i.e., why just the President? Why not the Republican Congress which blocked policy more than it ever formulated and passed anything? Gridlock causes stalemate and nothing gets done. That doesn't take a brain surgeon to understand. The idea that you can elect far right (or far left) ideologues who see compromise as dirty and then expect advancement in a country as big and diverse as this one is idiocy. And, frankly, electing a CEO of a corporation or whatever Trump calls what he runs and expecting them to make compromises when they're used to calling the shots and surrounding themselves with yes-men is also stupid.

We need actual mainstream, center-left and center-right, politicians who know how to work with each other and give a little to get a little. But, Trump supporters have been groomed for 25 or so years to see that as heresy.

[Kitty Redstone]

2 hours ago, MulletorHater said:

Well, in this morning's news, it seems that Don the Con is at it again.  It certainly leads credence to Rachel Maddow's claim that his campaign is nothing but one big money making scheme to line his pockets:

Trump's Donors Paying for Stuff

Radio and television people need to stop giving this idiot air time to complain about polls and grill the fucker on how he's taking donations and public money to enrich himself.  It's ridiculous that this isn't all over the news.  I knew about some of it but had no idea it was fleecing on this scale.  How this corporate welfare queen born with a silver spoon in his mouth become a "blue collar billionaire" should be a topic for historians and political scientists for years to come. 

 

1 hour ago, Nidratime said:

It never occurs to Trump or his rally attendees that he has to *also* get the support of people who can't/won't attend rallies. Not to say that everyone that attends a rally, whether his or anyone else's, has nothing better to do. But, come on! Plenty of people work or have other responsibilities and can't take time off to attend a rally, especially waiting in a line, possibly standing through countless introductory speeches while waiting for the candidate to appear. So, yeah, Donald, your rallies are not the whole electorate. They're not even the whole Republican Party.

Last night on Chris Hayes' show, Steve Schmidt said that Donald's campaign was like a rock concert - they focus on speeches at these venues but have done none of the other work.  A Republican organizer in Nevada couldn't even get yard signs or bumper stickers.

[Advance35]

Quote

I have many friends who are having difficulty maintaining friendships with trump supporters.  A few weeks ago I had to have a very uncomfortable conversation with a dear friend, a life long republican, about who she would be voting for.

This is where I am.  I am part of a visible minority and someone in my life is very insensitive not to take that into consideration.  They literally say "We've been friends for 20 years" and blah blah but what am I supposed to think of someone who supports this monster when I've articulated how it will effect me?   If that monster wins, I don't think I'll ever truly forgive anyone I know voted for him.   And  I've noticed I've started to distance myself.   I don't reply to text as much or as promptly (not politics related), I am blase about us getting together and hanging out.  Shakes head.   Just the thought of Trump and Pence with that kind of power.

Quote

I don't understand this either.  He gets a pass on everything!  The one and only thing he is right about is that he could shoot someone and still be a candidate.  This is the media's fault, right???

His rigged media is how he's gotten as far as he has.  Irony of Ironies that they would be one of his first targets if he got into office.   I think I loathe them almost as much as that Orange Monster.

Edited October 25, 2016 by Advance35

[Revlonred]

18 minutes ago, Kitty Redstone said:

Radio and television people need to stop giving this idiot air time to complain about polls and grill the fucker on how he's taking donations and public money to enrich himself.  It's ridiculous that this isn't all over the news.  I knew about some of it but had no idea it was fleecing on this scale.  How this corporate welfare queen born with a silver spoon in his mouth become a "blue collar billionaire" should be a topic for historians and political scientists for years to come. 

I don't understand this either.  He gets a pass on everything!  The one and only thing he is right about is that he could shoot someone and still be a candidate.  This is the media's fault, right???  I wasn't paying too much attention to the Republican primaries, and I really thought he was a joke.  As a New Yorker, we have been seeing him and his ridiculousness for decades.  My husband and I tuned in to the republican debates to see a show, and a show it was. We could not stop laughing.  We did not take it seriously.  How on earth did it get to this point? Months ago my friend said he would win the nomination.  I didn't think republicans would let it get so far. Wow was I wrong.

I don't know how his actions years ago against the Central Park 5 does not get more attention.  And he repeated his crap a couple of weeks ago!  It's unreal.  I saw 1 interview with one of the men on MSNBC and that's it? Everyone should be screaming from rooftops about this, and ALL the other crap he pulls

Sorry, I tried to fix a typo and apparently it reposted. 

Edited October 25, 2016 by Revlonred

[33kaitykaity]

30 minutes ago, Nidratime said:

We need actual mainstream, center-left and center-right, politicians who know how to work with each other and give a little to get a little. But, Trump supporters have been groomed for 25 or so years to see that as heresy.

The problem is the center has moved. 

Quote

 

Bill Maher: Democrats Have Moved To The Right And The Right Has Moved Into A Mental Hospital

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/21/bill-maher-democrats-have_n_218593.html

“Shouldn’t there be one party that unambiguously supports cutting the military budget, a party that is straight up in favor of gun control, gay marriage, higher taxes on the rich, universal health care, legalizing pot, and steep direct taxing of polluters? ...What we need is an actual progressive party to represent the millions of Americans who aren’t being served by the Democrats, because bottom line: Democrats are the new Republicans.”

 

[Nidratime]

Quote

The problem is the center has moved. 

The problem is we're not electing people who reflect the "center." For instance, if the majority of Americans, including Republicans and NRA members, supports reasonable restrictions to gun ownership and the implementation of devices that can prevent children & unauthorized people from using guns, then we should be able to recruit and elect candidates who reflect this widespread view. The problem is most Americans don't come out to vote enough and they don't hold candidates feet to the fire. It's only the fringe and hardcore who do so, and so we get politicians who reflect them and not us.

[33kaitykaity]

Just now, Nidratime said:

The problem is we're not electing people who reflect the "center." For instance, if the majority of Americans, including Republicans and NRA members, supports reasonable restrictions to gun ownership and the implementation of devices that can prevent children & unauthorized people from using guns, then we should be able to recruit and elect candidates who reflect this widespread view. The problem is most Americans don't come out to vote enough and they don't hold candidates feet to the fire. It's only the fringe and hardcore who do so, and so we get politicians who reflect them and not us.

I'm going by this Politifact comparison of the 1956 Republican Party platform and the 2012 Democratic party platform.  

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2014/oct/28/facebook-posts/viral-meme-says-1956-republican-platform-was-prett/

[starri]

I don't even necessarily think that the center has moved, it's just that ever since the Great Society, Democrats haven't really had a leader who was passionate about advocating for progressive values.  I think my biggest disappointment in Obama (although I would vote for him again in a heartbeat) was that he didn't do as much as he should have in the wake of the Great Recession.  With such a big mandate, he should have been able to advocate for a New New Deal, but instead focused only on the Affordable Care Act.  Even if flawed, it was still a necessary step that was long overdue.

But we got that instead of a jobs bill, and I'm not sure he wouldn't have kept majority control of Congress if he'd gotten legislation that people could actually feel.  What could have been.

[candall]

3 hours ago, needschocolate said:

Maybe Trump has asked Putin to hack into PTV....."Hey, Vladimir, those people are being mean to me"

!!!  When I tried to "like" this, my screen went to:  "Something went wrong.  Please try again."  When I refreshed the page, my notification box had a 4, with a minus sign in front.  I'm not kidding.

Reynold's Wrap, stat!  I need a hat!

 

 

 

[ETA:  Sorry, Saoirse, I hadn't seen the ad-mod-ishment yet.  I know they're working hard on the bugs, I just thought this chain of events was pretty funny.]

Edited October 25, 2016 by candall

[MulletorHater]

45 minutes ago, Advance35 said:

This is where I am.  I am part of a visible minority and someone in my life is very insensitive not to take that into consideration.  They literally say "We've been friends for 20 years" and blah blah but what am I supposed to think of someone who supports this monster when I've articulated how it will effect me?   If that monster wins, I don't think I'll ever truly forgive anyone I know voted for him.   And  I've noticed I've started to distance myself.   I don't reply to text as much or as promptly (not politics related), I am blase about us getting together and hanging out.  Shakes head.   Just the thought of Trump and Pence with that kind of power.

His rigged media is how he's gotten as far as he has.  Irony of Ironies that they would be one of his first targets if he got into office.   I think I loathe them almost as much as that Orange Monster.

Exactly!  I long believed that if it weren't for Drumpf's celebrity status, he would have never gotten as far as he had.  He was "entertainment" during the GOP "debates" and generated a lot of ratings for Fox.  Once the other networks saw that, they followed suit.  Even the president of CBS, Les Moonves, said, Drumpf's candidacy "may not be good for America but it's damn good for CBS."  He even admitted that the 2016 campaign is a circus, but then added, "Donald's place in this election is a good thing."

And, there you have it.  Drumpf + round-the-clock coverage = ratings and lots of ad revenue.  Even Moonves couldn't resist gloating, "Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? ... The money's rolling in and this is fun!"  He also said, "I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a good year for us.  Sorry.  It's a terrible thing to say.  But, bring it on, Donald!  Keep going."

And, that was CBS.  Now, multiply CBS times the other networks, including MSNBC's abandoning its "Lean forward" brand.  Not only has Drumpf been covered obsessively, but he has gotten away with things that would have disqualified any other candidate months ago.  It's very telling that he now basically confines himself to Fox News' O'Reilly and Hannity especially now that the media decided to stop fawning and actually its job.

[33kaitykaity]

He says it better than I can. 

I'm a liberal.  I want single-payer Medicare for all.  I want all of our troops out of the Middle East now.  I want Bush/Cheney/et. al. prosecuted for war crimes and the Felonious Five justices who appointed Bush to the presidency removed from the bench -- well, the two that are left, Thomas and Kennedy -- and on and on through climate change and signing the Kyoto Accords and the International Criminal Court.  I don't feel represented.  

[needschocolate]

1 hour ago, Advance35 said:

This is where I am.  I am part of a visible minority and someone in my life is very insensitive not to take that into consideration.  They literally say "We've been friends for 20 years" and blah blah but what am I supposed to think of someone who supports this monster when I've articulated how it will effect me?   If that monster wins, I don't think I'll ever truly forgive anyone I know voted for him.   And  I've noticed I've started to distance myself.   I don't reply to text as much or as promptly (not politics related), I am blase about us getting together and hanging out.  Shakes head.   Just the thought of Trump and Pence with that kind of power.

His rigged media is how he's gotten as far as he has.  Irony of Ironies that they would be one of his first targets if he got into office.   I think I loathe them almost as much as that Orange Monster.

I think Trump ended up the nominee because the media was so nice to him early on.  He has benefited from the media "bias" far more than he has been hurt by it - if there is any bias against him, which i don't think there is.  The media does dwell on the outragious things he says, but I feel they are ignoring a lot of the things that they should be reporting like the misuse of donated funds and the lawsuits that were started before the tape surfaced, and how he stiffed employees and contractors, etc... If the media were really biased they would be making up stories to make him look bad, liek he makes up stories about Obama and Clinton. He complains that they always say bad things about him, well, Donald, it is because you are a bad man who says and does bad things, and instead of complaining, you should be thankful that they aren't reporting all the bad things you say and do. 

 I live in a very blue state.  I know a few republicans, but only one that was pro-Trump.  Unfortunately, that one is my 84 year old father.  I have suspected that Trump and my father are on the same email group and that both seem to believe every outlandish thing that is in those ridiculous, far right emails - including such silliness as "Obama salutes the flag by grabbing his crotch."  Of course, he also believes Snopes is a biased left wing site - he even sent me a link to another fact checking site that is supposed to say that Snopes is rigged, but he apparently didn't bother to click on thelink himself, because it said that Snopes is one of the most objective, unbiased sites around.  

I started deleting anything that looked political and had "Fwd" in the subject line.  However, using a non-political email he had forwarded, I managed to make him realize that a lot of the emails he gets just aren't true and that people  look foolish sending that sort of stuff along.  It looks like, fortunately, applied that logic to the political emails - he either isn't forwarding this stuff, or he dropped me from his main forward list (I hope it is the former, but I am happy either way).  I avoid any sort of political discussion with him, so I don't know if he still plans to vote for Trump now (the last time it was discussed, Trump wasn't even the nominee yet), and I don't want to know.  

Edited October 25, 2016 by needschocolate
deleting some duplicate paragraphs - not everything I says bears repeating

[StatisticalOutlier]

2 hours ago, Frost said:

I can't categorically condemn a Donald supporter.  I despise the man himself.  I think the vast majority of his supporters are misguided and a much smaller number are alt right nutjobs.   There are people who are facing some desperate economic times and are scared and angry.  The fact that they think Donald will help them is illogical to me but doesn't make me shun them.  The alt right nutjobs?  I have no problem shunning them.  :-) 

Okay, they may be scared and angry and think Trump with help them.  But that completely disregards the price that the rest of us, and the country in general, will pay if Trump were to be elected.  It would be better for ME if I didn't have to pay any taxes, ever, but I willingly do it because it promotes a greater good. 

 

1 hour ago, Giant Misfit said:

I have a handful of friends who are voting for Trump. They're awesome people generally and none of could be categorized as alt-right loons (they don't even know what "alt-right" means). It's not that they even like Trump - it's just that they hate Hillary more. A few of my other Republican friends aren't voting for president at all.

But by not voting at all instead of voting for Hillary, they're giving weight to Trump votes, so it's an implicit vote for Trump. 

My problem with Trump voters, and perhaps especially the awesome ones, is that justifying a vote for him just can't stand up to real scrutiny.  We're electing a person based on promises, which is how the system works, and you can't believe a word that comes out of that man's mouth.  So how can you vote for those promises?

[Padma]

1 hour ago, Revlonred said:

I don't understand this either.  He gets a pass on everything!  The one and only thing he is right about is that he could shoot someone and still be a candidate.  This is the media's fault, right???  I wasn't paying too much attention to the Republican primaries, and I really thought he was a joke.  As a New Yorker, we have been seeing him and his ridiculousness for decades.  My husband and I tuned in to the republican debates to see a show, and a show it was. We could not stop laughing.  We did not take it seriously.  How on earth did it get to this point? Months ago my friend said he would win the nomination.  I didn't think republicans would let it get so far. Wow was I wrong.

I don't know how his actions years ago against the Central Park 5 does not get more attention.  And he repeated his crap a couple of weeks ago!  It's unreal.  I saw 1 interview with one of the men on MSNBC and that's it? Everyone should be screaming from rooftops about this, and ALL the other crap he pulls

Sorry, I tried to fix a typo and apparently it reposted. 

It's true. There is so much dirt attached to this man from the past that barely enters public consciousness. Then again, there is so much disgusting and dishonest about him just from the time of his campaign and it hasn't entered either. What he sees as "media bias" I see as "media failure" -- also the failure of his opponents, though fortunately Hillary has been so much better than the 16 primary ones. However, she and Kaine still haven't gone after him hard enough. If Trump had the oppo- research THEY do, he'd be using it every day to good effect and probably up to 80% in the polls. He is an incredibly flawed candidate--completely inexperience and also so corrupt--yet his millions of supporters adore him. It's bizarre.

The best I can say for his supporters are (1) maybe some just ignore the awful things he says and does because (2) they think he's a strong powerful man who cares about them and really wants to change Washington to solve problems like immigration, jobs, globalization/trade, fighting terrorism etc.

Okay, seriously. It's stupid to think Donald Trump is going to do any of that. In his supporters defense, I've actually got...nothing.

[Kromm]

Count Guiliani and Mark Cuban debated each other before the last Presidential debate, and between the interviewer and Cuban they personally know three people who Trump was sexually inappropriate with who aren't coming forward.

[atomationage]

Michael Moore in Trumpland, (free on youtube) starts out with a few people on the street.  One of them actually says that "You know he (drumpf) didn't get it handed down to him like Hillary did with her parents."  It's an alternate universe out there in Trumpland.  "He's a clown, but he won't be when he's President."  Moore tried to film it in Lincoln County, Ohio, but they weren't going to have that, so he ended up in Clinton County, Ohio.

I've resisted watching that Ghouliani and Cuban clip because I've already had enough of the G-ghoul's nonsense.  So many drumpf people are drinking some very strange Kool-aid.  Maybe it's Wyler's that's gone bad.

Edited October 25, 2016 by atomationage
resisted

[Kromm]

From mid-September, but it's still interesting.

Trump voters explain their unshakable faith:

Another recent bit of video:

Black Trump Supporters Explain Why They are Voting for DONALD TRUMP!

It's actually interesting viewing, even if a lot of us scorn it. Listening to how the logic sounds to people, how the slogans come off. 

[Padma]

3 minutes ago, atomationage said:

Michael Moore in Trumpland, (free on youtube) starts out with a few people on the street.  One of them actually says that "You know he (drumpf) didn't get it handed down to him like Hillary did with her parents." 

That is such a basic fundamental failure of branding and messaging of both Trump's Republican and Democratic opponents alike, that one despairs.  I don't understand how and why he has succeeded in turning himself into a working class champion. "Until I ran, I was the ultimate insider completely devoted to enriching myself! But now I'm 100% here for you!"

It's mind-boggling, truly.

[MulletorHater]

The New York Times has a revealing article regarding what makes Drumpf tick.  I know it's preaching to the choir, but a lot of it is what we suspected, mainly the fear of being publicly embarrassed.  This article is based on recordings including an anecdote on how the future Mrs. Ivana Trump bested him on the ski slopes and how he couldn't contain his embarrassment.  Happy reading!

 What Drives Donald Trump

[Advance35]

I figure it has to be subliminal messaging.   Like maybe in all the written materials dispersed by his campaign, the 3rd letter of every 3rd word, spells out "Trump is our King", "Trump is our Ruler", "Trump is for the Little Guy".    I honestly wouldn't put it past Trump or that Monster Mash he calls a campaign crew.   It's the only reason I can imagine that he has not been booked for treason.   This whole thing is outrageous.   Say what you will about Hillary, this man should be in jail.   If his followers break the law, they should go to jail to, THE END.

[Padma]

Kromm: Those were interesting videos, particularly the first. I'm guessing that many of his supporters don't actually know much about issues or current events or how government works and are responding emotionally to him, because he is an extremely emotional speaker.  Even the Hillary-hatred isn't based on facts, its appealing to emotion.

As for the African American video (a Trump campaign ad, right?) I wish they could read the memories of some who have worked with him. Everyone agrees he's a bigot. Trump's Plaza Hotel president even quoted him in his book "Trumped!", that he "doesn't want black guys handling my money. I want guys with skull caps (yarmulkes) handling my money."

Even after people correct him he doesn't change. A Native American told him "Pocohontas" was offensive. He immediately used it again--and again.  Many told him that stereotyping all African Americans as living in inner city hell holes "with no education and no good housing and everywhere you go you get shot" was untrue--only about 20% live in poverty in inner cities (as do many whites).  He still says it.

How can people support a man who is so incapable of learning?  You can see it throughout this campaign. He's very shrewd, very calculating and very manipulative, but he's just not very smart.