S07.E02: Swipe, Fuck, Leave

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Ready to disown his family, Frank takes Liam under wing and starts a new life barricaded on the top floor of the Gallagher home. Fiona, meanwhile, adopts a new, relaxed attitude and starts running Patsy's Pies on her own terms. Debbie gets into trouble in the stroller business; Ian tries out heterosexuality; and Carl finds himself forced into abstinence.

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Clips:

 

[racked]

What an awful episode. Why isn't Ian allowed to say that Caleb sleeping with anyone else, man or woman, is cheating? They had Caleb do a total turnaround from who he was introduced as last season.  This show creates amazing characters and then ruins them. 

[preeya]

How long will it take before Debbie gets arrested? This entire baby carriage/credit card scam has played itself out, along with Carl's penis problem. And once again Frank was totally overbearing. In fact this entire episode sucked.

[Pete Martell]

What fun.

If you are gay...

- you won't have a problem with your boyfriend cheating if it's with a man, but will be repulsed if it's with a woman 

- you will then feel you need to have sex with a woman, because if you enjoy it, that means cheating is OK

- you don't enjoy it, but you're still put in an extremely graphic sex scene, both for a producer chuckle and so that you can be given the opportunity to be in an explicit sex scene like all your straight bros and so they can have another reason to put more T&A on show. 

- you dump your boyfriend because no gay man can ever be attracted to a woman, not because of infidelity, or lies, or that the man he told you he was doesn't actually exist 

The most amazing part is I really do believe they felt like it was great fun to put a gay man in a graphic scene with a woman as long as they made sure we knew how much he hated it and that this was going to "prove" he was right. They wanted a situation that could be considered a turn-on for some (a hot naked woman) and some good chuckles for others (the latest round of "lol! A gay guy's fucking a girl!"). 

I would have probably preferred if he'd actually enjoyed it, as at least that would have been a story going somewhere and making such a tedious character question himself, although I'd have preferred it not happening at all. As it was the whole thing was just exploitive and offensive...and worst of all, incredibly smug and patronizing. 

[stagmania]

The Ian story in this episode is quite possibly the most offensive thing they've ever done to his character. Which is saying something. 

[Pete Martell]

The other thing I hate about this is again we have the idea that we should not need to have in 2016 - that you need to "prove" you are gay. I realize no one out there is watching this show and thinking it's a guidebook for life, but do you know how many gay people over the years have felt like they have to force themselves into degrading sexual experiences with the opposite sex because if they haven't they just don't know? 

And yet that's what we got here, in a situation where it would have been perfectly in character to get a, "No. I know what I am" moment. We couldn't have that because we needed a laugh and some breasts. 

Not to mention that there are gay men who have had sex with women and don't go rinsing their mouths out in horror. They see it as a way to get off or maybe there is, for a quick fumble, enough of an attraction. They're still gay, as far as I know. 

For a show that loves to pat itself on the back for edgy irreverence, it's yet another narrow-minded, toxic little set piece, and one I imagine they are extremely proud of. 

[WhosThatGirl]

21 minutes ago, stagmania said:

The Ian story in this episode is quite possibly the most offensive thing they've ever done to his character. Which is saying something. 

This. I can't even begin to understand it. I just can't... seriously this show is done for me as far as enjoying it and needing to see an episode, I used to need to see an episode now it's background noise as far as I'm concerned and if I miss an episode I won't really care.

And sorry show, cheating is cheating. I don't care if it's a man who is said to be gay cheating with a woman it's still CHEATING! 

Edited October 10, 2016 by WhosThatGirl

[Dee]

Wow.

Every time I think this show couldn't become more antiblack it goes and tops itself.

[BunnyBlueBrown]

I felt bad for Carl, but I was so tickled when he was on the subway and started picturing hairy balls on all the women. 

Women and men really do that stranger hookup on that dating site, Tinder. Rather dangerous. 

The funniest line of the episode was when Frank told Debbie Franny would become a diesel dyke in life. 

[Miles]

Could Fiona finally get that old Hobo, who keeps breaking into her house, arrest?

I too do not get how Ian's problem is that his partner is bi and not that he is an unrepentant cheater... Except that these writers do not know how humans generally act and feel. Shouldn't come to me as a surprise anymore, but it somehow still does from tim to time.

[dangwoodchucks]

I like the dynamic between Svets, V and Kev, but this storyline with the cleaning company doesn't look promising. Those random scenes of Kev with the kids made me keep thinking something bad was going to happen, but nope, just setting us up for a bad storyline because they don't know what else to do with the characters.

When Fiona put up that Help Wanted sign stating no criminal record, she must've forgotten why she was given a job there in the first place. It's ok writers, we viewers remember. So she's replacing the waitresses with young women, what's next, happy endings in the back? I have a feeling that'll be Lip in the back room with all the waitresses. In an unrelated story, those stacks of pancakes sitting there under the warmer looked yummy.

Episode 2 and yay, more penis! Are these writers even adults? Can you imagine them sitting around coming up with this stuff: teenage boy can't get an erection or it will hurt, ha ha ha; gay guy tries having sex with a girl to make sure he's gay and reacts like a little boy who's gotten cooties, ha ha ha. Speaking of Frankenweenie, Lip and Ian were horrified by the mess that had become Carl's penis, but Dom, the girl who said she was freaked out by some extra skin was ready to gobble that dick up a few days later?

Oh Deb, it's ok there was still a baby in that stroller you were going to steal, you've kidnapped before. Did they have trouble finding twins to play Frannie/Harrie, those two babies they're using look nothing alike. Are those still the original credit cards Deb is using, no way they wouldn't have been turned off by now.

Liam speaks! Frank walks! Ugh. If Frank had the whole upstairs blocked off, why was Liam in the bed with Frank and whoever the girl was, and not in his room? Frank needs to go, I don't even enjoy not liking him anymore.

[Empress1]

5 hours ago, Miles said:

Could Fiona finally get that old Hobo, who keeps breaking into her house, arrest?

I think she could have him arrested for breaking and entering and trespassing since the house is in her name. And she should.

8 hours ago, DOBABYR said:

I felt bad for Carl, but I was so tickled when he was on the subway and started picturing hairy balls on all the women. 

Women and men really do that stranger hookup on that dating site, Tinder. Rather dangerous. 

The funniest line of the episode was when Frank told Debbie Franny would become a diesel dyke in life. 

Tinder definitely started as a hookup app (which is why I stopped using it) although the founders were offended when it was characterized as such. It's kind of morphed into more of a matchmaking app, but you're not going to get arguments if you want to swipe, fuck and leave. 

[NorthstarATL]

I thought one of the women in Debbie's last scene looked like a woman from a previous scene, and I was SO hoping that she was about to get caught...but, alas, the saga continues.

 I actually like Fiona's storyline at work, as it's a situation that shows some different aspects of her character, BUT they had to transform it into Fiona randomly hooking up, and we'll be back to the usual with her soon enough. I WILL say that a sledgehammer and a wall that needs demolishing is a good way to work out feelings of hurt, though.

  So we get Ian nakedness, and it's with a woman! Good times! That was ridiculous. Any guy over a certain age knows what turns them on (just ask Carl, for crying out loud!), and Ian HAD a friend with whom he got close enough to know that het sex wasn't for him (remember what's-her-name?), so the whole storyline was a way to wipe Caleb off the show. Even their argument was weak, not touching upon where either one drew the line at cheating, or even whether they'd worked out exclusivity at any point (maybe I missed it?), and there didn't seem to be any emotion whatsoever on either side about parting. And I don't think the actors are to blame.

  I really thought Kev might be peddling himself as a topless housecleaner, but that would be too much to ask.

[whiporee]

I'm not gay, so I can't speak for what would or wouldn't be offensive to me if I were gay. 

But I thought Ian's description during sex of it being like a slip and slide, and then his revulsion in trying to get the post-cunnilingus taste out of his mouth was very funny. So was his total-gay conversation with Lip was funny, too. 

I thought Karen blew Ian in the first episode. I guess that doesn't count. 

I thought the Carl stuff was funny, and I liked Ian and Lip being brothers and interacting with Carl, and Lip's checking in on Liam. I thought those were good scenes. Also liked Lip choosing not to drink when confronted with Frank, and I think he passed at the club, too. I think Svetlana and Vee holding hands as they walked home was sweet, and I liked how excited Fiona got at her random hookup. Didn't like that Vee didn't play with her, didn't like anything with Frank or anything with Debbie, and while I think Kevin as a house husband is a funny bit, I don't know why he's been relegated to that as opposed to him working the bar. Do Svet and Vee get better tips or something? 

So I'm not full of rage at this one, but I'm not in a demographic who might have been offended. 

[BunnyBlueBrown]

8 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I think she could have him arrested for breaking and entering and trespassing since the house is in her name. And she should.

Tinder definitely started as a hookup app (which is why I stopped using it) although the founders were offended when it was characterized as such. It's kind of morphed into more of a matchmaking app, but you're not going to get arguments if you want to swipe, fuck and leave. 

Oh wow I didn't know that. It is simply the convenience of it all. Dating sites are already convenient, then you add the quick date element of Tinder, it was bound to happen. Hook up central.

[Empress1]

I went on a nice date with a guy from Tinder a few years ago - he was ultimately not for me, but it was a nice time. But it also uses your GPS so if you want to hook up on vacation, even internationally? Boom, done. I was still on it when I was in a CA city for work and while I didn't act on anything, I texted all my friends that I should move to that city because the men I was matched with there were SO much hotter than the ones at home.

Fiona really does need to be single, and probably some therapy but she wouldn't go for that.

I liked the scenes with all the brothers too. They do care about and look out for each other. And Liam spoke! But that child is like six, why isn't he in school?

[madhacker]

I also liked the way lip and Ian stepped up and gave Carl a way to get through the 72 hours. "My brain feels like cotton candy...." and "You guys are the best" totally cracked me up.

Yeah I was a bit annoyed by the "Ian trying hetro sex" storyline but I'm just gonna say it....I enjoyed the view. Cameron's hot, sue me. BTW, is that tattoo on his side for real?

As for the Frank storyline, isn't Tony (Fiona's ex now gay police officer) still living in the neighborhood? He could take care of it, and how's this for a storyline: Now that Ian's single again why don't they have him get into a relationship with Tony just to see Fiona's freakout and to see the hotness of Cameron and Tyler in bed? Or they just have Ian run into Tony, like at a hospital and they catch up. Next day Tony informs Frank that if he continues he'll find some excuse to arrest him. Ian takes him out for a drink to thank him and next thing they know they're back at Tony's place having sex. Y'know, I should write for this show..........

Edited October 10, 2016 by madhacker

[Muffyn]

I so agree with the horrible issues with Ian's storyline.  So he feels he has to have sex with a woman.  Yeeeeeeaaaaaah.  I fail to see the humor.  Let's address the other issue - a random woman on the El sees Ian and decides to have sex with him.  During the encounter, he is clearly uncomfortable but she is all hot to go.  After all, she's not white so in the world of Shameless she must be very sexual. He is disgusted when going down on her and she doesn't notice  Somehow the Gallagher genes make him irresistible and incredibly skilled at cunnilingus. 

Continuing the women can't get enough of the Gallaghers, the new waitress (again a WOC) immediately desires Lip.  Sure, she had just started at a new job but her desire is too damn strong, overriding common sense that would be to not start a new job by trying to have sex with your coworker.    

Finally Frank, yes, Frank, sleazy, smelly, drunk Frank, uses his child to pick up a woman who is happy to go home with him.  Why not?  He's a Gallagher.  Everybody wants to see what kind of diseases they can pick up from Frank.  She is  willing to climb a ladder and (possibly, not clearly specified) have sex with Frank in front of his child.  All I have left to say is "Aaaaaaaarrrrrrggggh!" 

[CarolMK]

I will be surprised if Shameless goes beyond season 8. The writers have become sloppy and inconsistent in their storylines. Frank should have been dead at least half a dozen times by now. I agree, Fiona needs to stay single. It's getting confusing as to what time of year it is supposed to be, as well as how old are the kids now..isn't Debbie supposed to be 16, yet Carl said to the doctor that he is also 16?

And what happened to the storyline of Ian being bi-polar? He's suddenly okay now? I didn't like his hetero hookup either. If the show had to go there, they should have done it way back in season 1 when Ian was still 15 or 16, not now. Makes no sense at all.

[WhosThatGirl]

13 minutes ago, CarolMK said:

I will be surprised if Shameless goes beyond season 8. The writers have become sloppy and inconsistent in their storylines. Frank should have been dead at least half a dozen times by now. I agree, Fiona needs to stay single. It's getting confusing as to what time of year it is supposed to be, as well as how old are the kids now..isn't Debbie supposed to be 16, yet Carl said to the doctor that he is also 16?

And what happened to the storyline of Ian being bi-polar? He's suddenly okay now? I didn't like his hetero hookup either. If the show had to go there, they should have done it way back in season 1 when Ian was still 15 or 16, not now. Makes no sense at all.

Your post is kind of everything I think. The writers don't seem to have any idea what to write anymore, it's obvious they've seem to run out of ideas. Nothing is that funny, if even funny that I see on my screen and I don't care much about the wackiness of the timeline, it's been that way for years but when the stories stop being consistent, it makes me mad. But I agree, they really don't seem to have any ideas on what to do anymore. 

[Armchair Critic]

Dare I admit that Carl is starting to look kind of cute? I actually had some sympathy for him this episode.

[Isazouzi]

I'm baffled that Lip and Ian let Frank take Liam with him when he threatened them. Isn't Fiona the one legally responsible for the kids? Over Frank? Or did it change after the coke episode? I can't remember. Anyways, they all wish Frank was dead, but they let him take their youngest God knows where. I just can't.

Edited October 11, 2016 by Isazouzi

[WaltersHair]

This is so bad. Gender fluidity, Frank being more than a jackass, Lip gets all the girls, Fiona flips out.

Every season. Every season.

[NorthstarATL]

10 hours ago, Muffyn said:

I so agree with the horrible issues with Ian's storyline.  So he feels he has to have sex with a woman.  Yeeeeeeaaaaaah.  I fail to see the humor.  Let's address the other issue - a random woman on the El sees Ian and decides to have sex with him.  During the encounter, he is clearly uncomfortable but she is all hot to go.  After all, she's not white so in the world of Shameless she must be very sexual. He is disgusted when going down on her and she doesn't notice  Somehow the Gallagher genes make him irresistible and incredibly skilled at cunnilingus. 

Continuing the women can't get enough of the Gallaghers, the new waitress (again a WOC) immediately desires Lip.  Sure, she had just started at a new job but her desire is too damn strong, overriding common sense that would be to not start a new job by trying to have sex with your coworker.    

Finally Frank, yes, Frank, sleazy, smelly, drunk Frank, uses his child to pick up a woman who is happy to go home with him.  Why not?  He's a Gallagher.  Everybody wants to see what kind of diseases they can pick up from Frank.  She is  willing to climb a ladder and (possibly, not clearly specified) have sex with Frank in front of his child.  All I have left to say is "Aaaaaaaarrrrrrggggh!" 

LOL! I completely forgot that aspect of Lip's storyline! I have worked in TONS of places that serve food and drink and NEVER have I seen anyone publicly express the desire to get with the dishwasher! And, nothing against the actor, but there is nothing about Lip that would override the "no dishwasher" rule. Now, if they'd all been at the bar for a while and the waitress spent some time talking with Lip, then maybe I could see it, but as a GOAL? No way.

[LuciaMia]

Quote

 Frank needs to go, I don't even enjoy not liking him anymore.

So true. Franks behavior is no more reprehensible than in past seasons, but he's definitely worn out his welcome. But like past episodes have shown, he's like the cockroach that can't be killed off even by a nuclear bomb.

[Dee]

13 hours ago, Muffyn said:

I so agree with the horrible issues with Ian's storyline.  So he feels he has to have sex with a woman.  Yeeeeeeaaaaaah.  I fail to see the humor.  Let's address the other issue - a random woman on the El sees Ian and decides to have sex with him.  During the encounter, he is clearly uncomfortable but she is all hot to go.  After all, she's not white so in the world of Shameless she must be very sexual. He is disgusted when going down on her and she doesn't notice  Somehow the Gallagher genes make him irresistible and incredibly skilled at cunnilingus. 

Continuing the women can't get enough of the Gallaghers, the new waitress (again a WOC) immediately desires Lip.  Sure, she had just started at a new job but her desire is too damn strong, overriding common sense that would be to not start a new job by trying to have sex with your coworker.   

Thank you. The virulent antiblackness and racism from a show that swears it's SO progressive is extremely nauseating.

Spoiler

And with what's in store for Dominique, in the next couple of episodes, it's only going to get worse.

[iMonrey]

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As for the Frank storyline, isn't Tony (Fiona's ex now gay police officer) still living in the neighborhood? 

Tony should be living in the house next door. That's the house Steve bought and Tony made him give it to him. So I guess he moved away because now Frank is breaking in and crawling across a ladder to get upstairs into the Gallagher home.

I wasn't offended by Ian's storyline, but I was kind of shocked we saw Ian full frontal if only for an instant, because it didn't even really work for the scene. He was clearly flaccid so there was no way the woman could have mounted him right then and there.

(Maybe the writers don't understand how penises work; did a woman write this episode? If Carl's member was as gnarly and damaged as Lip and Ian seemed to think, there was no way he'd be OK enough for a "blowie" 72 hours later. I expected that scene to end with Dominique screaming at the sight of it.)

At any rate, the real issue with Caleb is that he lied, which proves he knew he was doing something Ian would by upset by, which further proves he knew he was doing something wrong. He could have been open about it or just not have done it, but he chose to lie instead, and when he got caught he got all defensive about it. Still, I don't think we're done with Caleb. That seemed like too abrupt an ending and I think something else will come from it.

Fiona is no stranger to anonymous hookups or one-night stands. That's how she met Steve.

The start-up Lip was interning for felt like a 1990s dot-com cliche with hipster doofuses lying around playing video games and raking in six figures. I don't think that really happens anymore. Did anyone catch what they supposedly do, and why the FBI would be raiding them?

[Muffyn]

I was just coming here to rant about the start up.  Of course Lip gets an unpaid internship and immediately finds a way to start scamming his employers.  And of course the FBI shows up.  Since we saw someone deleting files (like that would completely erase their existence - hitting delete equals scrubbing the system in the world of Shameless - no chance they are stored in multiple places or have been attached to mails, or are sitting in the trash/recently deleted folder . . .), we know they are up to no good; that is, when they are not placing coffee orders and playing games.  Why?  Because in the Shameless world everyone is a scammer.  No  one ever does good.  Heck, I would settle for someone's actions being neutral.  Now genius Lip can find the files and blackmail his employers.  Because of course he can.  He's a Gallagher.   

[WhosThatGirl]

7 minutes ago, Muffyn said:

I was just coming here to rant about the start up.  Of course Lip gets an unpaid internship and immediately finds a way to start scamming his employers.  And of course the FBI shows up.  Since we saw someone deleting files (like that would completely erase their existence - hitting delete equals scrubbing the system in the world of Shameless - no chance they are stored in multiple places or have been attached to mails, or are sitting in the trash/recently deleted folder . . .), we know they are up to no good; that is, when they are not placing coffee orders and playing games.  Why?  Because in the Shameless world everyone is a scammer.  No  one ever does good.  Heck, I would settle for someone's actions being neutral.  Now genius Lip can find the files and blackmail his employers.  Because of course he can.  He's a Gallagher.   

I think it goes back to my- and another posters-post, the show and the stories are going around in circles at this point.  No one is just a good person on this show, ever. It's not even entertaining, it's just..kind of boring. 

Edited October 11, 2016 by WhosThatGirl

[Dee]

It's hilariously ironic seeing Lip snidely slam someone using "cheater's logic" when he had no problem screwing Karen during his relationship with Mandy and was sleeping with Amanda behind Ron's back.

[iMonrey]

I'm not necessarily bothered by the fact that none of the characters are "good people" because that's always been the nature of the show. Even if you could have considered Fiona a "good" person back in Season 1, she was still out stealing toilet paper from public restrooms and looking the other way when her siblings were stealing water heaters. They did what they had to do to get by.

The problem is that the writers have clearly run out of ideas for these characters. That seems especially evident with Kevin and Veronica right now, but you can see it with everyone else too. And while you kind of wanted to root for them early on, you don't really want to anymore. I gave up on Debbie as soon as she started trying to get pregnant, and Lip has been trying his hardest to throw his life away since the beginning. You can see another spiral into self-destructiveness coming a mile away with Fiona now too. It's just getting old.

[Dee]

I could care less about the characters on this show being "good."

Where I have a serious problem is with the Gallaghers (and those in their inner circle) making value judgments about others while simultaneously being expected to empathize with them.

I'd have much less of a problem if other characters on the show were allowed to be critical of the Gallaghers & not immediately written out or portrayed as a villain.

Edited October 12, 2016 by Dee

[Nordly Beaumont]

Can 16 year old kids really get operations without parent's consent? And leave without someone there to get them home? I had minor and had to have a "responsible adult" (I was 53) drive me home and stay with me for at least 12 hours.

[WhosThatGirl]

I agree that no one in this is good but like others I used to root for the people on this show and yes like others I don't anymore. I stand by what I said, the show is going around in circles and becoming boring and yes they have run out of ideas. They really are struggling with what to do because they don't seem to know where they want the characters to go or what they want the end result to be. 

[Muffyn]

5 hours ago, Dee said:

I could care less about the characters on this show being "good."

Where I have a serious problem is with the Gallaghers (and those in their inner circle) making value judgments about others while simultaneously being expected to empathize with them.

I'd have much less of a problem if other characters on the show were allowed to be critical of the Gallaghers & not immediately written out or portrayed as a villain.

I don't need them to be good. I am tired of this cynical world in which everyone is an asshole.  Caleb seemed too good to be true.  Now he's a cheater (even though we've never heard them explicitly state the limits on their relationship; he did feel the need to lie).  The waitresses are suddenly expendable.  I very much agree with your last line.  There used to be other characters who were critical of some of the Gallaghers' actions and that, as an audience, we were expected to understand and quite possibly agree with.  Where have they all gone?  Was that simply too much nuance for these writers?
 

3 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

I agree that no one in this is good but like others I used to root for the people on this show and yes like others I don't anymore. I stand by what I said, the show is going around in circles and becoming boring and yes they have run out of ideas. They really are struggling with what to do because they don't seem to know where they want the characters to go or what they want the end result to be. 

You nailed it. They are just going in circles.  There is nothing new.  They are not developing or changing (other than Deb feeling she can steal from people and use their credit cards with abandon).  While Frank has always been an unrepentant drain on his family, leaving a wake of destruction in his path, the other characters had struggles with who they were and how they dealt with the world.  There used to be a sense of them stealing because they were in desperate need.  Now they all just fuck people over because they can. 

I keep hoping for a laugh or something challenging to think about.  It looks like I will be left wanting for the rest of this ride.

[Dee]

1 hour ago, Muffyn said:

I am tired of this cynical world in which everyone is an asshole. 

I've never had a problem with every Shameless character being an asshole, because they've all been various levels of scummy since the pilot.

However, I have a problem with the show's ridiculously selective morality.

When certain characters are given free passes by the show because they're "popular," tokens and/or writer favorites without the show providing logical reasons why? Then they deserve to be called out.

For instance, why does Shameless imply that Sammi is irredeemable but Carl sympathetic? I get that Carl has been on the show since its inception, but he used his mentally disabled nephew as a drug mule and never felt sorry for his actions (even going as far as believing himself to be the victim).

Meanwhile the show clearly intends for the audience to hate Sammi for turning Ian in, despite the fact that he was AWOL and her actions were a direct result of their family's collective lack of support where she was concerned (especially since she was the one largely keeping the house afloat).

And that's, essentially, the problem with cynical writing. If you're gonna do it, you've gotta really commit to it.

Edited October 12, 2016 by Dee

[iMonrey]

Quote

For instance, why does Shameless imply that Sammi is irredeemable but Carl sympathetic? I get that Carl has been on the show since its inception, but he used his mentally disabled nephew as a drug mule and never felt sorry for his actions (even going as far as believing himself to be the victim).

Just to play devil's advocate, the Gallaghers all stick together through thick and thin no matter what they do. Sammi was never one of them, and blew any chance she had of being a part of that family when she called the cops on both Ian and Carl. The Gallaghers would never have ratted each other out like that. So I guess that's the difference. 

However, it's true that after six seasons I don't really find myself rooting for any of the Gallaghers anymore. Each has sort of torn their ticket with me, one by one, with their own self-destructiveness. So I no longer really care if they make out all right or get ahead, because I've come to the conclusion none of them deserve it. They're all living in a hell of their own making after having blown numerous opportunities to better themselves. 

I'd say Ian still has a shot at redemption, but that's about it.

[Dee]

Sammi was definitely a Gallagher.

She may not have been as likeable as her siblings, but she genuinely wanted a sincere relationship with them. Even when it was clear they didn't feel the same way about her, she pitched in & helped keep the family afloat.

Sammi only called the cops on Carl because Carl used Chuckie as a drug mule and none of her family felt it was an issue. In fact, they had more of a problem with Carl running hard drugs, than Chuckie being in trouble. And while calling the MP's on Ian (who was guilty) was a brilliantly cold move, it was motivated by her family collectively turning their backs on her because she dared hold them accountable.

One of the main problems, with the later seasons of Shameless in a nutshell, is that it operates by the rule that the Gallaghers (and friends) are not to be questioned & anyone who dares do so immediately becomes Enemy #1. That, and Shameless warped moral relativism (thanks to the horrible Milkovich family) is what effectively has killed the show.

[whiporee]

Just to defend Carl a little bit -- Frank was the one who called the cops to let them know about Chuckie, and I'm pretty sure it was Frank who suggested using Chuckie to Carl. Not to excuse Carl, but the one who got Chuckie busted was Frank.  

[Dee]

Oh, I'm well aware Frank was largely behind Carl's shenanigans.

But the rest of the family doesn't even spare one moment to feel bad that Chuckie got caught. Were they ever close to him? No. But they'd been living with him long enough to know he was a good kid. Even when they learn he's developmentally disabled during his court hearing, they use it as an opportunity to taunt Sammi instead of empathizing with him.

[LuciaMia]

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(other than Deb feeling she can steal from people

Like someone upthread said, its hard to believe that Deb is still managing this scam. After the second or third pram was stolen, it probably would have made the local news and definitely on Social Media.

[iMonrey]

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Frank was the one who called the cops to let them know about Chuckie

You may be thinking of another time when Frank called child services on all of them. It was Sammi who told the police Carl had given the drugs to Chuckie to smuggle, which she admitted to openly when they showed up at the house. 

I think that's really when she tore her ticket with that family. For all their foibles they never rat each other out. Sammi broke the sacred Gallagher "code."

[Dee]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

You may be thinking of another time when Frank called child services on all of them. It was Sammi who told the police Carl had given the drugs to Chuckie to smuggle, which she admitted to openly when they showed up at the house.

He did it twice. Frank placed an anonymous tip to the cops about Chuckie & the drugs when he was at emergency room with Sammi to get his infected bullet wound checked.

Sammi then got a call from the cops, on the way home with Frank, that Chuckie had been arrested & she rushed off to deal with the situation. It was then that she told Chuckie to tell the cops that Carl was responsible, which he was.

Later, when she pleaded for the rest of the family's support, they ignored her while Carl & Frank played the victim.

Edited October 13, 2016 by Dee

[Dee]

They do for Kevin.

Lip did/does all of Kev's administrative paperwork (taxes, liquor commission tests, etc) and Debbie used to sign cards for Kev to give to Vee for her special occasions. But none of them has ever does anything for Veronica.

[WhosThatGirl]

What's funny about Kevin and Vee, in the first season, Kevin didn't really like helping out The Gallaghers. I remember a lot of scenes where Vee would mention that their cell phone was being used by one of the kids and things like that. But yeah.. I'm really over The Gallaghers. I used to like them and now I strongly dislike each and every one. Except for maybe Liam? But.. I doubt that will last.

[FiveByFive]

8 hours ago, Dee said:

They do for Kevin.

Lip did/does all of Kev's administrative paperwork (taxes, liquor commission tests, etc) and Debbie used to sign cards for Kev to give to Vee for her special occasions. But none of them has ever does anything for Veronica.

True, it's amazing in every season that I forced my way through I never caught on to that.  I'd add, though, that she doesn't actually need any help and has always had it more together than anyone else on the show. She has always had a job of some sort, doesn't get into trouble and her relationships have always lasted. No one else on the series can say that except for, of course, Kevin.  If something bad happens to Vee, she is the one who is usually able to fix it. 

I do think they care about Vee since she's their sister's best friend, has been around them all for years, she's played surrogate parent on occasion and has told them off with no repercussions and for the most part they listen but most important of all when something goes down she's right there with them. I'd say her role has always been to be the stable person in Fiona's life.  

On 10/12/2016 at 2:03 AM, Muffyn said:

You nailed it. They are just going in circles.  There is nothing new.  They are not developing or changing (other than Deb feeling she can steal from people and use their credit cards with abandon). 

The characters stopped "growing" a few seasons back. I said it last season and I'm already seeing it again, it doesn't matter how good or bad things get for the Gallaghers they will always go right back to where they started at the beginning of the season. That might work for a weekly sitcom but that doesn't work here. There's no point in cheering for them "to win" when you know they never will.  

Lip has an "internship" now and he'll screw that up just like he has screwed up every good thing that has happened to him since season one.  Fiona can't keep a boyfriend and is having trouble at work, just like every season. I'd argue that even though she's manager now she'll end up without a job by season's end. 

Their growth is restricted to, "this actor/actress is older so they can do more and then screw up too" or "this actor/actress is leaving so let's have a big emotional moment or a fight and then pretend like they never existed." The only time anything sticks is when someone goes like Sheila/Mickey/Mandy etc.

The actress that plays Svetlana is incredibly lucky that they found a place for her post Mickey. She doesn't hang with the Gallaghers outside of the bar, Ian isn't around anymore with Mickey's baby (guess he wasn't so connected to him after all - oops they forgot) but at least she has something to do.

Edited October 13, 2016 by FiveByFive

[Dee]

1 hour ago, FiveByFive said:

True, it's amazing in every season that I forced my way through I never caught on to that.  I'd add, though, that she doesn't actually need any help and has always had it more together than anyone else on the show. She has always had a job of some sort, doesn't get into trouble and her relationships have always lasted. No one else on the series can say that except for, of course, Kevin.  If something bad happens to Vee, she is the one who is usually able to fix it. 

I do think they care about Vee since she's their sister's best friend, has been around them all for years, she's played surrogate parent on occasion and has told them off with no repercussions and for the most part they listen but most important of all when something goes down she's right there with them. I'd say her role has always been to be the stable person in Fiona's life.

You make some very good points, many of which I agree with about Vee's (relative) lack of drama. However the Gallaghers have shown a subtle lack of contempt for Vee over the years that's been really bothersome, because as you've said, she's always been there for them without receiving (or asking for) much reciprocation.

Debbie snidely complaining about Vee not being a 'real nurse' despite the fact that Vee successfully diagnoses & cures her illness, Lip acting surly with her & Kev when they refuse to let him bunk with them, Carl's complete disinterest in Vee's condition when she begins spotting, Fiona emotionally blackmailing her into housing the younger Gallaghers to keep them from going into foster care, etc.

I believe they care about Vee, but only to the extent that Vee is willing to be of use. Hence stuff like Fiona's drunken disbelief that Vee would dare to put her own family's needs first when Fiona wakes her up in the middle of the night during the most recent episode.

Edited October 13, 2016 by Dee

[jww]

The boys all shared a small bedroom and going by the opening credits there was little privacy in the bathroom and they never saw each other naked?

[iMonrey]

I wonder if Vee still works at the nursing home. It doesn't seem like the bar is bringing in much money.

Quote

The boys all shared a small bedroom and going by the opening credits there was little privacy in the bathroom and they never saw each other naked?

I agree it seems unrealistic that Carl wouldn't have noticed by now he was "different" in that department.

[WhosThatGirl]

5 minutes ago, auntl said:

When Vee was feeling overwhelmed with newborns, did one of the Gallaghers go over and try to help this woman that repeatedly helped them? No way.

Again I will say, the Gallaghers take, they don't give. Sometimes they give short term (very short term), like helping Kev with the books. However, at the end of the day, the Gallaghers only care about themselves - their own family. I think that they would screw anyone in a second for themselves, including Kev and Vee. They learned from the master, their father Frank.

Yeah I kind of agree with this. It's getting more and more apparent though as this show goes on and that's why it's getting increasingly difficult to care what any of them do. They make their own bad choices with almost everything. They're never going to change their behaviors and like I've said at the end of all my posts, it's boring now. I kind of hope the show is on it's way out. Like we all have said the stories are stale as hell.

Edited October 13, 2016 by WhosThatGirl