S03.E05: Yerba Buena

[Tara Ariano]

Quote

Donna and Gordon decide to treat themselves to a vacation at home instead of camping. Meanwhile, Bos and Cameron return to Texas; and Ryan and Joe have a revelation.

[Primetimer]

Cameron's bummed about going home again, Donna's bummed about butting heads with Cameron, Joe's bummed about a possible health scare, and Gordon is...his usual self. Quite a collection of sadsacks we've got on this show.

View the full article

[mjc570]

The only thing I liked:  Boz driving off, leaving Cameron behind.  Otherwise, I just didn't care about any of it or any of them, except for the awesome Diane. 

[minamurray78]

Ryan, it's the 4th of july. You need this shit explained to u? weirdo.

[Armchair Critic]

Was Joe saying goodbye to a guy who he had spent the night with?

[Dowel Jones]

I so love those phone calls where one party just drops the anvil right on the other one's head.

So, is it Cameron's company with Donna being an executive, or is the ownership split?  I have forgotten since Mutiny actually formed.  In any case, the whole enchilada won't be worth the beans once someone hacks their database and steals either the credit card info or the bank account numbers.  Donna and Cameron can scream at each other to their hearts' content as everyone is leaving and everything is being picked up.

As I understood it, Cameron's plan would have the buyer write a check to Mutiny, and they would forward the money to the seller.  Her plan looks good on paper, but the 1% admin fee that she touts is just as dependent of dollar volume as Donna's credit card scheme.  The big problem is that Mutiny/SwapMeet is on the hook for any bounced checks after the transactions are completed.  They have to spend time and money dealing with the bank and chasing down the deadbeat buyer, whereas a credit card transaction falls on the credit card company (the reason they charge their own admin fee).

This "Sometimes I have to crawl into a hole" line illustrates that Cameron is still operating at an employee level in her company.  She wants the glories and the benefits of any successes, but still wants to be carried along through all the troubled waters.  That's a recipe for disaster when you are the head of the company.

[mjc570]

I thought Joe's visitor was a former lover who told Joe he (the guy) was HIV +, leading Joe to get himself tested.  On the other hand - it seems they did have some kind of sex, so who knows. 

[Auntie Anxiety]

Can't we just make this the Donna and Diane Show and lose everyone else? Because I don't gave the patience for these childish adults anymore.

[dubbel zout]

I'm really tired of Cameron whining about how every time Mutiny grows, she loses a little piece of it. News flash, Cam: That's how business works. You can't have it both ways. Ugh.

10 hours ago, mjc570 said:

The only thing I liked:  Boz driving off, leaving Cameron behind.

I know. That was so awesome. Boz as grandpa was adorable, even if his son is kind of a dick. 

The immaturity on this show is exhausting to watch, especially given that it's season 3 for the main characters.

[minamurray78]

Did she actually go ahead and married Tom? I remember they had a somewhat passionate thing, what were they really that in love? I might have believed Cameron was still hung up on him if they had mentioned him earlier than episode 4.

Also, what is the deal with her family? I know her father died and she was very close to him, and she didn't get along well with her mom, but why not even show up for her dad's bike? It's season 3, either Cameron starts growing or changing somehow, or the show needs to give us more information . Or maybe they want us to be annoyed whit her, IDK. It was kinda satisfying when Boz drove away.

Lee Pace is just sooo wasted on this show. His HIV storyline ( which was already hinted at in s1) doesn't really come as a surprise in a show placed in the 80's  and with him being canonically bisexual. I feel like the writers haven't known what to do with Joe since season 2: his arc takes more shape nearing the end of the season, except I don't think he can afford to have it all burned to the ground again (by his will or not) and go through yet another reinvention. If there's a season 4, I hope he makes the transition smoothly.

2 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

The immaturity on this show is exhausting to watch, especially given that it's season 3 for the main characters.

Agreed. I don't wanna give up this show: I like the actors, the characters and overall subject. I just don't wanna feel frustrated after each episode.

[NorthstarATL]

I didn't care about the Staycation at all. I like Donna and Gordon well enough, but there wasn't anything about their scenes that fleshed them out any further or brought anything new to the table. Texas was boring too. We know who Cam is, and the only revelation would be if she DID act as an adult and deal with her mother and maybe treat everyone respectfully. Frankly, I didn't realize that guy was the same one from last season. Was the ring from then or from this past week?

  Donna should really have told Cam about her decision to keep the two guys, for whatever reason she did (still unclear on that one), when they had the big talk at the office, since Cam had clearly shown herself to be irresponsible at that moment. Now it's going to be a wedge that will maybe send cam back to Texas?

  I figured it was AIDS with Joe when the guy showed up looking all forlorn. If a female ex shows up next week and says she's pregnant, that's going to be some drama. (I almost thought Ryan was going to attempt to seduce Joe, since he seemed to be making a mental note of everything that went on between Joe and the guy.)

 Is Mutiny close to discovering payPal?

[dubbel zout]

9 minutes ago, NorthstarATL said:

(I almost thought Ryan was going to attempt to seduce Joe, since he seemed to be making a mental note of everything that went on between Joe and the guy.)

I thought it was going the other way, i.e., Joe was going to attempt to seduce Ryan.

10 minutes ago, NorthstarATL said:

Is Mutiny close to discovering payPal?

Or eBay?

[tennisgurl]

So, wait, is Cam married? Or something? I swear, Cam just drives me out of my mind. Her constant immaturity and whining is REALLY irritating, especially from a grown ass woman who is supposed to own her own company? Its good that she seemed to get close to some self understanding for a second there, but now I am sure she`ll be all pissy with Donna about her lying about firing those two guys (and I still have no clue why Cam wanted to fire them), and we will get even more high school whining. Maybe Donna was in the wrong for lying, but Cam was being unreasonable, and her insistence on acting like their company is her own personal little garage project. 

Gordan and Donna was nice, but just kind of there. 

Joe is like a completely different character every season. You almost forget its the same person at all. 

Boz as grandpa was adorable, but it was kind of hurt by his dick son, and his dick surrogate daughter. So, what is his sons deal? Is he mad Boz went to jail, or is it typical Cats on the Craddle When You Coming Home Dad stuff? 

[AllyB]

48 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Boz as grandpa was adorable, but it was kind of hurt by his dick son, and his dick surrogate daughter. So, what is his sons deal? Is he mad Boz went to jail, or is it typical Cats on the Craddle When You Coming Home Dad stuff? 

For a second there I thought you meant his daughter in law rather than Cameron and I was wondering what I missed as she seemed mostly pleasant with Boz. Toby Huss really knocked it out of the park with the baby. He was just adorable as happy grandpa meeting his grandson,

Speaking of babies, Cameron is just boring at this point. Oh no, boohoo my business is expanding and I'm not queen of us all in this little house anymore. And while it would be understandable if she was upset, angry and felt betrayed because Donna lied to her about Diane not being willing to fire the guys, her whole hyperventilating, hugging herself on the bed was just overblown and pathetic. Were the audience supposed to feel sympathy for her? Because all I felt was contempt.

[magdalene]

I missed the doctor phone call Joe got - what's the consensus - positive or negative? I thought Joe's kinda crazy smile could indicate either way.

[Dowel Jones]

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

So, what is his sons deal?

I took it to mean that Boz was an absentee father, always flying somewhere and putting his job first.  Who knows?

 

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

and I still have no clue why Cam wanted to fire them),

Because they had the temerity to actually defend their code, as Cameron is the Coder de tutti Coders, and no one better step on her toes.

21 minutes ago, magdalene said:

I thought Joe's kinda crazy smile could indicate either way.

It looked that way to me, too.  He might even welcome the chance (in his own mind) to transcend the earthly domain and become one with the ethernet, blah, blah, blah.  Until he discovers the pain of getting there.

[ketose]

2 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

I took it to mean that Boz was an absentee father, always flying somewhere and putting his job first.  Who knows?

 

Because they had the temerity to actually defend their code, as Cameron is the Coder de tutti Coders, and no one better step on her toes.

It looked that way to me, too.  He might even welcome the chance (in his own mind) to transcend the earthly domain and become one with the ethernet, blah, blah, blah.  Until he discovers the pain of getting there.

That's the Breaking Bad route, freak out when you find out you're NOT dying.

They were dangerously close to using the word "staycation" which would have gotten me yelling at the screen, especially since I hate people who use it now. I'm also a little dubious about the phrase "I have your back" being era-appropriate. I may be too sympathetic toward Gordon, but I can kind of see how Donna's piling on about how much camping sucks kind of ended the fun portion of the weekend.

The online payment stuff is scary as hell. I just had to sit through a PCI compliance seminar at work today. Now, I think what Cameron was suggesting was that they hire someone to do bank transfers for "swap meet" customers. Two users make an arrangement, Mutiny uses the on-file bank account number of the paying customer to do a wire transfer to the other on-file Mutiny customer. Actually, they could do this with one person, a list and a phone and no internet. Ironically, the telephone is probably still the most archaically secure method to do anything. Can we fast forward 25 years to when patent trolls sue Cameron for using their shopping cart?

I think Donna is about done with Cameron. I doubt if her mad code skilz would save the company given her tendency towards obsolete coding and unreliability. Of course, Donna already had an assload of money and made Gordon spend it on a mainframe. Maybe Donna should do something she actually likes, because I have yet to see that on the show.

[AllyB]

Quote

I took it to mean that Boz was an absentee father, always flying somewhere and putting his job first.  Who knows?

I think it's that Boz was an absentee father but his son forgave him for that. He got him a job with his company and was probably looking forward to forging a close adult relationship with him and maybe having him be a hands-on grandfather. But Boz hated the job and took off across country to be with his surrogate daughter instead of staying and being close to his actual son. I love Boz but I'd probably be deeply hurt by that if I was his son.

[dubbel zout]

9 hours ago, ketose said:

her tendency towards obsolete coding

Is it really obsolete? It's her own thing and she's incredibly obnoxious about it, but Cameron has been successful as far as that goes.

I really want Cam to have to deal with a coder who's even better than she is and there's no way she can deny it or bully the person to do something her way. She needs to learn she's not the be-all and end-all of coders.

[attica]

I'm with Donna: I want vacation to be less work than real life, ergo: ixnay on the ampincay. Did my time in tents as a kid. As a grown-ass woman, I now demand (and deserve!) room service and spa treatments. I apologize to no one for my affection for comfortable shelter and modern plumbing.

In the scene where Cam was on the phone with Diane, I fully expected the camera to pan from Diane's glass of wine to reveal her drinking companion, Boz. Maybe next week!

[2AT]

I am having a really hard time working up the outrage or sense of betrayal that the writers are obviously going for to make me sympathize with Cameron.  Sure, Donna is not perfect and she should have had the ovaries to tell Cameron not fire the Swap Meet guys herself (instead of hiding behind Diane), but she has had to make tough decisions without Cameron because Cameron CHOOSES to check-in and out of the Mutiny whenever she feels like.   And when Cameron does check-in, it's nothing but micromanaging to the point of paralysis, tantrums because no one is worshiping her sacred coding and decision-making predicated upon a misplaced sense of identity.   She continues to act like Mutiny is her's and her's alone with no respect to her partnership with Donna who, besides seemingly having to run the day-to-day operations, funded (with Gordon) the mainframe and kept Mutiny afloat during the lean years in Texas.  

Run Tom, run!

Edited September 15, 2016 by 2AT
Grammar!

[mjc570]

18 hours ago, ketose said:

 Maybe Donna should do something she actually likes, because I have yet to see that on the show.

So true, but I hadn't realized this until you pointed it out. 

[dubbel zout]

I think she likes being running Mutiny, and she's pretty good at it. It's Cam's bullshit that's aggravating her.

[magdalene]

How old is Cameron supposed to be? Because maturity wise she is acting more like Donna's rebellious teen daughter than her business partner.

[ketose]

6 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

I think she likes being running Mutiny, and she's pretty good at it. It's Cam's bullshit that's aggravating her.

I think she liked joining Mutiny at the end of Season 1, but by Season 2 she was mom again, making sure people did what they needed to do. Then, she had to use Mutiny and the mainframe to save her marriage. Plus, Cameron keeps calling it her company. Remember Donna's love of music for example? I'm pretty sure the writers don't.

[qtpye]

I am so sick of Cameron throwing a tantrum or hiding when things do not go her way and Donna enabling her.  Raise your hand if you can disappear from your job for four days and still expect to be employed.

Then she has the audacity to scream at Donna about Mutiny is her company, when it is Donna's management and Gordon's money and mainframe that has kept the company afloat and given it the ability to expand and grow.  Cameron's genius coding has been a bust.  She was unable to come up with any good games for Mutiny and fought hard against community.

I hate the way Donna coddles her.  I loved that Boz finally said enough was enough.  Cameron is really becoming useless and now I am all for leading a coup and taking over the company. 

[qtpye]

On 9/15/2016 at 3:40 AM, AllyB said:

I think it's that Boz was an absentee father but his son forgave him for that. He got him a job with his company and was probably looking forward to forging a close adult relationship with him and maybe having him be a hands-on grandfather. But Boz hated the job and took off across country to be with his surrogate daughter instead of staying and being close to his actual son. I love Boz but I'd probably be deeply hurt by that if I was his son.

Yeah, Boz is spending his golden years with Cameron and I am now wondering if he regrets that decision.  The employees treat him like a walking talking joke and he has to be lonely.

[Hanahope]

So Mutiny is creating ebay and paypal and Joe is creating the Internet.  

Once again Camron acts like an immature spoiled brat who wants to take her ball and go home.  Donna has to play mother and Gordon is all upset because Donna admitted that camping didn't really excite her (but dude, she did it for you, dipshit).  I'm just about done with these people and this show.

[scrb]

At least Donna got a good dig in mocking how punk rock Cameron is suppose to be.

[2AT]

On September 16, 2016 at 9:18 AM, qtpye said:

I am so sick of Cameron throwing a tantrum or hiding when things do not go her way and Donna enabling her.  Raise your hand if you can disappear from your job for four days and still expect to be employed.

Then she has the audacity to scream at Donna about Mutiny is her company, when it is Donna's management and Gordon's money and mainframe that has kept the company afloat and given it the ability to expand and grow.  Cameron's genius coding has been a bust.  She was unable to come up with any good games for Mutiny and fought hard against community.

I hate the way Donna coddles her.  I loved that Boz finally said enough was enough.  Cameron is really becoming useless and now I am all for leading a coup and taking over the company. 

YES!  I would LOVE a takeover of Mutiny!   

There is a difference between being a genius and being a visionary.  Cameron, Gordon and apparently Ryan are geniuses that need visionaries like Donna and Joe for them to realize their potential.  Just as Cameron could not recognize the potential of chat or the urgency of a streamlined payment system, Gordon could not recognize the potential of the anti-virus disk that he handed over to Joe.  Cameron needs Donna and she need to stop taking her for granted.

[ganesh]

On 9/14/2016 at 6:47 AM, mjc570 said:

I thought Joe's visitor was a former lover who told Joe he (the guy) was HIV +, leading Joe to get himself tested.  On the other hand - it seems they did have some kind of sex, so who knows. 

I thought so too. The former bf was brought up in the comments from last week. 

On 9/14/2016 at 8:17 AM, dubbel zout said:

I know. That was so awesome. Boz as grandpa was adorable, even if his son is kind of a dick

I don't get why though. I thought Boz got along with the son. 

Boz and Cameron in the car might have been the best scene in the show to date.

On 9/14/2016 at 8:17 AM, dubbel zout said:

The immaturity on this show is exhausting to watch, especially given that it's season 3 for the main characters.

I agree. Cameron has taken a huge step back and is in a holding pattern in terms of characterization. The good thing is this season Donna isn't taking Cameron's bs anymore. Donna is right. "You should have called." That's all you have to do. It's one thing if Cameron doesn't realize this by now, but she does, and then doesn't. So it's deliberate. Gordon and Donna should just buy her out. 

On 9/15/2016 at 6:23 AM, dubbel zout said:

Is it really obsolete? It's her own thing and she's incredibly obnoxious about it, but Cameron has been successful as far as that goes.

From what I got out of the last episode, Cameron was hanging on to her code because it was hercode. The new guys said that it wasn't compatible to the whole swap meet system. Not that she can't code, but that she didn't want to give up on this one piece of code. 

[orza]

It seems that Cameron's story line for this season is heading toward her eventually losing her company. This was and still is pretty common with IT start-ups. The founder may be a great programmer with big ideas but without business savvy and the maturity to let go of the details and be a real leader, and for that matter, to just behave like an adult and a professional, the chances of keeping the company are pretty slim. At some point the investors and business people brought into fund and run the company will have enough of the childish nonsense and force the founder out. Cameron is certainly on that trajectory.

Edited September 18, 2016 by orza

[renatae]

On 9/14/2016 at 11:32 AM, minamurray78 said:

Did she actually go ahead and married Tom? I remember they had a somewhat passionate thing, what were they really that in love? I might have believed Cameron was still hung up on him if they had mentioned him earlier than episode 4.

I think that was supposed to be an engagement ring, although the camera never got close enough to tell. They did bring Tom back into the story a couple of episodes ago, when Donna was telling her husband that they couldn't just "go get the other coder" who helped write the code, since there was something personal between him and Cam. (Said while Cam is mooning in the background.)

[renatae]

On 9/15/2016 at 10:15 AM, attica said:

I'm with Donna: I want vacation to be less work than real life, ergo: ixnay on the ampincay. Did my time in tents as a kid. As a grown-ass woman, I now demand (and deserve!) room service and spa treatments. I apologize to no one for my affection for comfortable shelter and modern plumbing.

Me, too! However, I think the reason he was so bummed was that he's thinking he doesn't know Donna at all. Apparently, the camping was a big thing with them in their early years and he has great fond memories of it. Now, because she is high, he learns that Donna was not into it. I had the feeling that when he was looking at her, he was thinking, "Who is this person? Not who I thought she was!" As if he thought their entire past had been invalidated. Way too over-dramatic there, Gordon. It's only camping.

Edited September 18, 2016 by renatae

[ganesh]

Typical Gordon though. 

[qtpye]

I know a woman who faked her interest in Star Wars to bond with her then boyfriend and now husband.  She likes science fiction, but was never into the Star Wars universe.  She said the worst thing about it was having to sit through those awful never ending Hayden Christensen movies.  I still do not think her husband knows to this day.

[ganesh]

To be fair, even Star Wars fans admit they are awful too. 

[thuganomics85]

Finally got around to it, and I'm just so over Cameron now.  I really don't give a shit that Donna lied to her; if anything, I'm more pissed at Donna for not covering her bases and letting Diane know what was up, so she could cover for her.  Because Cameron is really just an immature, self-centered brat, and I can just see why Donna is so over this, and not wanting to let her know, in order to prevent another Cameron spat.  I don't care how brilliant she is: if you disappear for a week, you don't have the right to get pissy when come back and find out the company is moving on without you.  Phones did exist in the 80s, Cameron.  No excuses.  Sheesh, what an obnoxious character.

So, now Joe is possibly sick with HIV or AIDS.  He was smiling at the end, but it was one of those smiles where I can almost still seem them somehow throwing a twist and making it not be a happy he was negative smile.  I don't know.  Still can't figure out half of the stuff he and Ryan are doing.

Even Bos is finally having enough of Cameron.  Too bad it was a generally rough episode for him, between her and his son treating him like shit.

Oh, hi, Tom!  I guess that was his ring that Cameron was playing with at the end?

Gordon and Donna actually act like they are in love with each other again, only for Gordon to act all sad once she finds out that Donna actually never liked camping.  Alrighty, then!

[Kel Varnsen]

What the hell is Gordon's problem? So his wife, who is totally out of his league in looks, personality and every possible way (who stays with him even after he cheated on her) tells him that back when they were dating she still went camping with him even though she didn't like it and he gets all whiney about it? That is what people do in every relationship stop being a baby and be happy with what you have.

[ketose]

On 9/21/2016 at 9:21 PM, Kel Varnsen said:

What the hell is Gordon's problem? So his wife, who is totally out of his league in looks, personality and every possible way (who stays with him even after he cheated on her) tells him that back when they were dating she still went camping with him even though she didn't like it and he gets all whiney about it? That is what people do in every relationship stop being a baby and be happy with what you have.

Gordon has problems, but I don't think Donna is totally out of his league. Gordon did sleep with that woman, but Donna probably would have slept with her TI co-worker if he wasn't just trying to seduce her for the plans to the Giant. Plus, she made the deal where Gordon would use his Cardiff money to buy the mainframe.

Gordon got overly sad-sacky about the camping thing, but I think it's because he saw it as one more thing that separated them. At this point, the kids and computers are the only thing they seem to have in common. I think that and the fact that Donna is somewhat out of his league are what troubled him.

[ganesh]

I don't think she's out of his league either. They built a computer together. I think it's more that Gordon doesn't really have a professional direction or role. He doesn't need to be at Mutiny. He could be running coding boot camps at this point. 

[dubbel zout]

I agree. Gordon is at loose ends, and that's why he's feeling frustrated and is getting angry at stuff that probably wouldn't be as irksome otherwise.

[Dowel Jones]

I remember news articles from the 80s, I think, of a young couple, Sandra and Arne (?) Kurtzig (yes, I had to look it up), who started ASK, a software and program company.  The only reason I remember them, aside from the possible inspiration for Donna and Gordon, is that they eventually divorced, with the stated reason that one was interested in programming and the other in retail sales.  Even then, it was a WTF moment for me.  Unfortunately, their company failed in the turbulent computer world and no longer exists.

[stillshimpy]

On 9/21/2016 at 6:21 PM, Kel Varnsen said:

That is what people do in every relationship stop being a baby and be happy with what you have.

 

On 9/18/2016 at 3:58 AM, renatae said:

Me, too! However, I think the reason he was so bummed was that he's thinking he doesn't know Donna at all. Apparently, the camping was a big thing with them in their early years and he has great fond memories of it. Now, because she is high, he learns that Donna was not into it. I had the feeling that when he was looking at her, he was thinking, "Who is this person? Not who I thought she was!" As if he thought their entire past had been invalidated. Way too over-dramatic there, Gordon. It's only camping.

I think that Gordon is dealing with something bigger than "Zounds, I was lied to about camping!" instead he's sick.  He knows it.  He knows the manner of his death is likely to be ever diminishing abilities to move his own body and the thing he's pursuing as his hands shake and ability to think abandons him is fixing his marriage.  

 

That's what Gordon has been pouring his energies into and turning down possibilities with Joe to try and mend: his marriage.   It would sting to find out that perhaps he has no idea what makes his wife happy, that he knows her so little that he thought that she also thought of camping as their touchstone, rather than the thing she was being a good sport about.  Gordon seemed to realize that there was a possibility that Donna was just being a good sport about their entire life together.  It would smart to know that you're facing the closing chapters of life and your primary emotional relationship is geared more towards, "I patiently tolerate the things you love and quite possibly, I'm just tolerating you and making the best out of a situation, kind of like camping." 

I doubt anyone will end up reading this because I am just watching the series now, after it concluded but I loved this episode because they earned every emotional moment in it.  

 

Donna lying about the coders is stupid but she's also part of a world that has forced her to play all kinds of games just to be allowed to work in the field that she's in.  Cameron only knows how much she, Cameron, loves the refuge and private world that she built out of her emotionally bereft childhood.  Her childish panic is actually something that's earned in that she has no detachment from what her work means.  She also can't necessarily understand that Donna being that little bit older than she is means that she was a smart, techy savvy woman in a field where they were outwardly and actively rejected.  Cameron doesn't understand that placating and lying came with Donna's territory or that Donna is desperate to hold on to a role in Mutiny also because all the things that Gordon just figure out about his marriage?  Donna already knew.  

 

Similarly, Bos's son lashing out was fully earned when I consider it from his perspective.  He's tried to be forgiving and open towards his dad, Bos left the job he helped Bos get and who knows how that impact his son at the company?  I like that the groundwork was laid for this throughout the seasons.  

 

I thought the entire episode really addressed emotional issues that they'd been building for a long time and I enjoyed watching the results.  I love Cameron and Donna's characterizations because they are both in a field that is stacked against them.   For contrast, skyscraper-tall Joe with his flash but little substance gets to build success largely on affectations whereas Donna and Cameron have to weather everything short of being treated like prostitutes to get funding.  

 

The only character not working for me is Ryan but that's largely down to the actor's fairly inscrutable choices.   His entire season thus far has been a series of reaction shots that are murky in terms of what they may or may not mean.  The guy exists to be baffled by Joe and occasionally blink rather owlishly in the face of Joe's community theater rendering of Jobs.  If Ryan doesn't shoot the place up by season's end I'll have no idea what they hell they've been trying to convey with almost every scene he's in. 

 

Sad to have the return of Tom, who I adored, hinted at since Cameron will just put his heart through a meat grinder because of her own terror of being hurt.  The only time I ever teared up at a break up was when Cameron cut Tom dead because the actor was the anti-Ryan in terms of wearing his heart on his sleeve and he just looked so crushed by how tersely Cameron dismissed the fact that he loved her.  Now, whatever they've got going will doubtless eventually be ruined by either Cameron or that one time Tom spoke to Joe and then opted not to tell Cameron about it.   So she'll likely set his house on fire while calling him a traitor or something equally sane and measured.  I love Cameron's characterization but she'd be impossible to have an actual relationship of any kind with in reality. 

Edited November 24, 2017 by stillshimpy

[paramitch]

On 11/24/2017 at 9:41 AM, stillshimpy said:

I think that Gordon is dealing with something bigger than "Zounds, I was lied to about camping!" instead he's sick.  He knows it.  He knows the manner of his death is likely to be ever diminishing abilities to move his own body and the thing he's pursuing as his hands shake and ability to think abandons him is fixing his marriage.  

That's what Gordon has been pouring his energies into and turning down possibilities with Joe to try and mend: his marriage.   It would sting to find out that perhaps he has no idea what makes his wife happy, that he knows her so little that he thought that she also thought of camping as their touchstone, rather than the thing she was being a good sport about.  Gordon seemed to realize that there was a possibility that Donna was just being a good sport about their entire life together.  It would smart to know that you're facing the closing chapters of life and your primary emotional relationship is geared more towards, "I patiently tolerate the things you love and quite possibly, I'm just tolerating you and making the best out of a situation, kind of like camping."  

I have had a tough time liking or empathizing with Gordon at times, but I've really enjoyed him this season, and it's been nice to see him return to being more the quiet, brilliant nice guy he was more in season 1. This season, I can see why he and Donna are together, and what each brings to the marriage, and that's fun for me. The marriage feels more balanced to me this season.

So I was surprised at how affected I was by Gordon's quiet fear and devastation when Donna admitted she'd never liked camping. I actually thought it was subtly beautiful writing (and acting) -- it's just this one thing, but he -- as you note -- is married to a pleaser. Someone who goes along because it's easier to smile and agree (and: note -- she may not even be aware of how much she does this). How many more things has Donna smiled and agreed to? How horrible and scary to realize your entire marriage might be built on your wife "being a good sport?" 

And the morning-after scene was another master class, I thought, with Gordon subtly paying her back in that way that people do since time immemorial, all because she placated him and now he's scared to death and uncertain. So he'll make her off-balance too. Nothing mean, nothing she could pinpoint, just him getting those tiny little knife twists in... no morning decadent breakfast at the cafe, no more lazing around together, the curt kiss on the cheek... I thought it was breathtakingly done. This is the way people hurt each other who love each other. It was utterly real and perfectly done.

Quote

I thought the entire episode really addressed emotional issues that they'd been building for a long time and I enjoyed watching the results.  I love Cameron and Donna's characterizations because they are both in a field that is stacked against them. 

Yeah, and it's sort of heartbreaking to me to watch Cameron skate right over all that thin ice without acknowledging the dangers while Donna's entire life has been trying to cross those frozen ponds and being knocked down every time. Cameron is fragile but in other ways emotionally brutal and I'm really not sure Cameron is aware of what Donna has gone through as a woman in tech; it oddly seems to pass Cam right by.

Quote

For contrast, skyscraper-tall Joe with his flash but little substance gets to build success largely on affectations whereas Donna and Cameron have to weather everything short of being treated like prostitutes to get funding.  

I admit it, I weirdly love Joe. There is something riveting and fascinating about Lee Pace in this role for me. I adore him as an actor, but have felt he was wasted in the role until this season. It's the first season where I actually do feel something for Joe beyond "WTF, dude?" But the little cracks in the facade are fascinating to me, and I love the fact that Pace is one of the few actors I've ever seen who seems able to turn his charisma on and off like a light switch.

I'm always floored when Pace does this with Joe. l think it's fascinating and much harder than it looks. Joe is the quark, the wild element that sparks everything (and everyone) around it. Sometimes it's destructive, sometimes it's magical, you never know what you're gonna get. And as a writer, I love that, and I love his fluidity across all spectrums -- sexuality, tech, creativity, vision (and I love that the show has been utterly willing to go there with an openly bisexual man). For me, Joe is almost mythical, one of those Greek or Norse gods that went around fucking things up for everyone with their wit, charm, and ego, and inadvertently ended up raising continents or creating humans or bringing fire to the masses, etc. Joe's just really fun that way.

Quote

The only character not working for me is Ryan but that's largely down to the actor's fairly inscrutable choices.   His entire season thus far has been a series of reaction shots that are murky in terms of what they may or may not mean.

 This made me laugh because I agree -- I don't think the actor's bad, exactly, but all of his scenes are of him watching Joe and then reacting in these mysterious micro-expressions in ways I don't understand. Is it admiration? Desire? Concern? Obsession? I have no idea either. 

Quote

Sad to have the return of Tom, who I adored, hinted at since Cameron will just put his heart through a meat grinder because of her own terror of being hurt.  The only time I ever teared up at a break up was when Cameron cut Tom dead because the actor was the anti-Ryan in terms of wearing his heart on his sleeve and he just looked so crushed by how tersely Cameron dismissed the fact that he loved her.

Tom is one of my favorite characters ever on this show, and the actor is just terrific. My favorite thing about him with Cameron is that they sparked with each other intellectually as well as physically, and he had a strong enough ego and self-image to resist Steamroller Cameron doing its usual "I will now flatten you" thing.

I'm torn because I love seeing him again on the show, but yeah... Cameron will destroy him. I love Cam when I don't want to throw things at her, but as a romantic partner (or anything partner), Cameron needs a world of therapy before anyone should be allowed in her orbit. And only then after she encases them in bubble-wrap.