S23.E01: Week 1: Premiere

[enthus-pro]

Thoughts on contestants for week 1 (in alphabetical order):

 

Calvin & Lindsay – they look like a charming couple and thought he had a nice time on the floor. Agree he hit some nice lines and that he looked good when dancing eye level to Lindsay. Think a facelift of his posture could create an even more statuesque/admirable chest and that he should be a bit careful of his heel. Should they reach a creative impasse in training, think Calvin will respond well to a male role model. Nonetheless, think this is a start and hope Calvin continues to improve and progress.

James & Sharna - thought the couple opened up the floor with their foxtrot and that James showed nice control in hold. Liked his free arm as he did a nice job feeling the space around him. Maybe refine the slight hunch and the effort in the shoulders during the spins, but thought there was a smoothness to the routine nonetheless. Its good to know that he's in charge when racing competitively, and hope James will continue to allow that same freedom to Sharna in the dance studio as they move down the road.

Jana & Gleb – nice to see Jana start on her own and thought the beveled pose felt convincing at the top. A bit unusual to see someone produce nice lines, but it was good to catch glimpses of her latin in the Viennese Waltz. Thought the routine should've had much more rotations and a sweeping feeling throughout the studio, but that it stopped halfway and lost the original flavor. Hoping Gleb can be flexible to accommodate and to work with all the judges as the weeks move by.

Laurie & Val – thought it was a playful, energetic routine and it was nice to see the fun interplay. If Laurie could settle into the ground and apply a bit more foot pressure think it would be even better. Think her good memory, strict upbringing and strong-will should serve as an asset, and that she'll probably enjoy the romantic dances/themes if the opportunity arises. Nice to see how she's leaning on Val and hope she'll be kind to herself, set realistic goals/parameters and move forward from there.

Marilu & Derek – think it was nice that Derek kept Marilu in hold as much as possible. Liked the toe heel swivel and agree that there was plenty of jive content and that Marilu coped well with it. At times she felt a bit stiff and would've like to see her loosen up (esp her upper half) and have a bit more freedom in her glide. Like how Marilu has a natural affinity for the cameras in interviews and engages the viewers on the other side; hoping this quality translates well into her dances as she progresses.

 

Best of luck to all the celebs and looking forward to their dances.

[howmanywords]

11 hours ago, Vinyasa said:

I get it that everyone likes Laurie Hernandez and wants her to win, which may very likely happen. And I know the show needs a "front runner" each season has one.

But she has such an advantage over the others, I just hate when anyone seems like the winner on the first night.

I want to watch someone learn and get better each week. I hate it more when a contestant is as good as a pro dancer.

So much yes to this. I hate when a winner is declared week 1. Yes she's great and adorable but im hoping like we've seen in other seasons an underdog comes from behind and wins.

[Uke]

41 minutes ago, McManda said:

Say what you will about Derek, but I admire that he was one of the first to want to do something. (Val did, too, but he's in the back of the videos.) Cheryl, Val, and Maks have mentioned in the post-incident interviews and in various ways that want to make the ballroom a safe, supportive place and any criticism that the celebrity gets outside of dance critique isn't welcome. It's a stupid dance show, but I like that.

But yeah, they must stay clear of the internet. We can be brutal.

On the one hand, I thought it was good of Derek to run out of the Red Room when he saw the ruckus. BTW Lindsay was right on his heels and Val ran out the other side of the Red Room.  Of course Derek was the only one to get all the press for his LEAVE! This is a positive place! (yeah, I kinda laughed too.)  The sentiment is good. 

On the other hand, what were they thinking they were going to do?  All they really did was add to the security guys' efforts to get control of the situation.  Now, not only do they need to control the 2 guys and the girls in the audience (and in the moment they couldn't be certain it was only the 2 guys who posed a threat) and protect Cheryl, Ryan, Tom and the judges.  Now they've got 3 pros running into the mix.   I wouldn't be surprised if Derek, Lindsay and Val got a little "speakin' to" about thanks but don't do that again.

[bantering]

Not that I really understand the protesters' reasoning or think it is worth spending time in jail over Ryan Lochte, but protesting his appearance at a swimming meet might seem....less embarrassing... since that's his home territory? Although I guess you'd have to jump into the pool and be tackled by security in the water for anyone to notice the protest? I don't know what I'm trying to say. But protesting at a dance show where the Mirrorball is the centre of everyone's ambition makes the protest seem even more comical than it already is. 

Edited September 14, 2016 by bantering

[OnceSane]

The details of Ryan's Rio Olympics incident, the positives and negatives of the Rio Olympics and airport/theater/sports arena safety protocols are all off-topic.  Keep it to the show (ie: What transpired WITHIN the episode).  Thanks.

[Padma]

One of the strongest beginnings, dance-wise, of recent seasons. Laurie is obviously a natural but there are a couple of others who could improve and win it. Nice to see two women in their 60s looking so great and doing so well, plus with such wonderful attitudes about the work and the show.  Marilu was surprisingly clunky in the kicks (they edited a lot to show upper body) and Maureen was obviously extremely nervous and won't get as far as she will, but I'm glad they will both be around for a while.  All in all, a good show. (Had to watch On Demand, due to football. I guess they edited out a lot of the "protest" because it just went from Carrie Ann talking...to a commercial...to Ryan and Cheryl looking slightly shaken but calm and not much explanation about anything. It would have been nice to see Derek, Val and Lindsay coming to help--as apparently the whole thing was unpleasant but not really dangerous. If one didn't see the Internet, it would have been completely confusing, just looking at the tape.) 

Edited September 14, 2016 by Padma

[Princt1]

Lol

[MsJamieDornan]

Some of you have mentioned Vanilla Ice was a last minute addition, does anyone know why?

[kitcloudkicker]

13 minutes ago, MsJamieDornan said:

Some of you have mentioned Vanilla Ice was a last minute addition, does anyone know why?

Why they might have been scrambling to fill the cast? It seems like it's just standard operating procedure, they always seem to go down to the wire. Alek Skarlotos was allegedly signed with less than 24 hours to the GMA cast announcement, Nastia was pulled in last minute as well on her season when another NYC based contestant dropped out last minute. 

Why I think it's especially obvious with Mr. Ice? They announced all of the pros except for Witney, and then finally pulled out Vanilla Ice within a few days of GMA. He's got a track record of reality shows. (Here he is on "Dancing on Ice" in the UK, doing, you guessed it.) And then in the package from last night where Witney mentioned she had half the time with him she was used to, and he showed himself to know nothing about the show and how it worked. It makes it seem like he's on some casting director's list of, "If you've exhausted your options for who you really want, call one of these guys, they'll probably do it." (Like how certain comedians will be on call to "fill in" on talk shows if guests drop out at the last minute.)

[MsJamieDornan]

Thanks kitcloudkicker, I thought another person might have dropped out.

[kitcloudkicker]

Talks might have fallen through behind the scenes (probably likely?) but none of that got out into the rumor mill, to my knowledge. 

[Glaadrial]

2 hours ago, enthus-pro said:

Laurie & Val – thought it was a playful, energetic routine and it was nice to see the fun interplay. If Laurie could settle into the ground and apply a bit more foot pressure think it would be even better. Think her good memory, strict upbringing and strong-will should serve as an asset, and that she'll probably enjoy the romantic dances/themes if the opportunity arises. Nice to see how she's leaning on Val and hope she'll be kind to herself, set realistic goals/parameters and move forward from there.

I got the impression from Val pleading with CAI to go easy on the hip-movement criticism because Laurie is "America's Treasure," read: She's 16/17? and dancing with adult man (twice?) her age, so can we agree not to over-sexualize her hip movement? (Not at all a direct quote, merely my interpretation of what looked to be a plea for support traversing this minefield.) 

I loved Val's collaboration with Zendaya and how he was able to side-step some of the pitfalls that could have come from a teenager being asked to dance sexy while partnered with an adult man who oozes maturity (Mark/Derek are more playful in their routines and both seem to be more ambivalent about choreographing routines within the lines, so they don't come with the same baggage as Val when guiding younger partners through the competition.

Laurie is in a completely different mindset than Zendaya. I get the impression that she would be upset if Val didn't allow her to learn and execute the requirements of the dance (including the feel and the intent). If it comes to this, Val could manage to cast himself in either a subordinate role (like Zendaya's Bodyguard routine), or at least be more passive in how he responds to aggressiveness from Laurie, in say, an Argentine Tango or Rumba.  These routines might be able to bypass the skeevieness factor if Val casts himself as a Master teacher of sorts who can withstand and redirect a full-on romantic assault by a very talented protegee.

Val's a very creative and, I think, under-rated/respected choreographer, so I know he'll rise to the challenge. I can't wait!

[RescueMom]

4 hours ago, Glaadrial said:

I got the impression from Val pleading with CAI to go easy on the hip-movement criticism because Laurie is "America's Treasure," read: She's 16/17? and dancing with adult man (twice?) her age, so can we agree not to over-sexualize her hip movement? (Not at all a direct quote, merely my interpretation of what looked to be a plea for support traversing this minefield.) 

That was my read as well.

Unrelated to the quote: last minute addition or not, the crowd sure liked Vanilla Ice. He seemed to get the loudest cheers both during the intro and after his dance. 

[RemoteControlFreak]

8 hours ago, bantering said:

Not that I really understand the protesters' reasoning or think it is worth spending time in jail over Ryan Lochte, but protesting his appearance at a swimming meet might seem....less embarrassing... since that's his home territory? Although I guess you'd have to jump into the pool and be tackled by security in the water for anyone to notice the protest? I don't know what I'm trying to say. But protesting at a dance show where the Mirrorball is the centre of everyone's ambition makes the protest seem even more comical than it already is. 

Well, he's not going to be in any swimming meet for at least 10 months because he's been suspended from competitive swimming for that long for being a lying liar.

Second, one of the biggest goals of protesting is to have the protest message seen by a large number of people. The goal of a protest is to disrupt. So what better place than a popular live television show?  It's a tried and true protest venue and has been since the medium was invented.

Also, as noted above and stated by the protestors very clearly in the TMZ video, the reasoning for their protests were very clear. The objected to Ryan's lying about what happened in Rio and claimed that his lying endangered other Americans in Brazil.  By all accounts, they did not spend time in jail, and they probably never will for such a minor charge. They spent the night at an LAPD station waiting to be charged, were then charged with misdemeanor trespassing and were free to go. 

Edited September 14, 2016 by RemoteControlFreak

[RedFiat]

I am laughing at this show, it has officially moved from silly to skeevy.  It used to be that the top dance of the night got the press, now it's a fat security guard tackling a protestor

 

of a douchebag who disgraced his country. 

Shame the show doesn't respect its premise. 

Trying to to compete with the election campaign is tough.  Problem is there is no competition for crazy. 

[bantering]

1 hour ago, RemoteControlFreak said:

Well, he's not going to be in any swimming meet for at least 10 months because he's been suspended from competitive swimming for that long for being a lying liar.

Second, one of the biggest goals of protesting is to have the protest message seen by a large number of people. The goal of a protest is to disrupt. So what better place than a popular live television show?  It's a tried and true protest venue and has been since the medium was invented.

Also, as noted above and stated by the protestors very clearly in the TMZ video, the reasoning for their protests were very clear. The objected to Ryan's lying about what happened in Rio and claimed that his lying endangered other Americans in Brazil.  By all accounts, they did not spend time in jail, and they probably never will for such a minor charge. They spent the night at an LAPD station waiting to be charged, were then charged with misdemeanor trespassing and were free to go. 

Their reasoning is clear but is also stupid imo.  I can understand a Brazilian protesting because some perception he may have drawn on or created about their country, but I don't think Ryan Loche is endangering Americans.  Considering everything else going on in the media and politics, I'm pretty sure Ryan Lochte is the least of the problems for Americans right now. 

I realize he won't be swimming for 10 months. Even if they protested at a swimming pool, I'd still find their logic utterly stupid . And the swimming pool mention was more of a joke.   I still think their reason for protesting and disrupting was dumb. tThis reason is clearly stated but doesn't necessarily make sense to me and makes the protesters look foolish, imo.  A protest in theory is supposed to accomplish something. This protest accomplished nothing except to make almost everyone laugh at them and ask "Why would you be willing to get tackled by security for Ryan Lochte?" They may have also unwittingly created a ratings spike for Ryan Lochte's appearance on Dancing with the Stars in the coming weeks.

Edited September 14, 2016 by bantering

[boyznkatz]

12 hours ago, 90PercentGravity said:

I hate adorable people and even I like Laurie Hernandez.

She isn't nearly as annoying as Shawn Johnson or Bindi Irwin, that's for sure.

[RemoteControlFreak]

Just now, bantering said:

Their reasoning still sounds  stupid to me.

I can understand a Brazilian protesting because some perception he may have drawn on or created about their country, but I don't think Ryan Loche is endangering Americans.

I realize he won't be swimming for 10 months. I still think their reason for protesting and disrupting was dumb. tThis reason doesn't make sense to me and makes the protesters look foolish, imo.  A protests is supposed to accomplish something. This protest accomplished anything except to make everyone laugh.

Protestors often look foolish, especially to those who disagree with them. It's the intent of a protest to be disruptive and disruption often looks foolish.

Obviously the protest did accomplish something.  We've just spent four pages talking about it in an online forum that usually debates the merits of the quick step vs. the cha cha.   It also was reported by all the mainstream media organizations, thus continuing to raise awareness of Lochte's actions and the fact that not everyone thinks it's a good idea for DWTS to reward bad behavior in their contestant selection process.

[bantering]

14 minutes ago, RemoteControlFreak said:

Protestors often look foolish, especially to those who disagree with them. It's the intent of a protest to be disruptive and disruption often looks foolish.

Obviously the protest did accomplish something.  We've just spent four pages talking about it in an online forum that usually debates the merits of the quick step vs. the cha cha.   It also was reported by all the mainstream media organizations, thus continuing to raise awareness of Lochte's actions and the fact that not everyone thinks it's a good idea for DWTS to reward bad behavior in their contestant selection process.

No, not all protesters look stupid. The protesters trying to accomplish systemic change are often admired.

There is no systemic or institutional change to be accomplished from this particular protest.  Yes, we've spend four pages talking about Ryan Lochte -- thus giving him more attention and less attention to everyone else. Even Laurie Hernandez, who did the best job at dancing and his highly charismatic, is getting less attention.

Mainstream media organizations were already talking about Ryan Lochte's actions in Rio way before these protesters showed up. That's part of the reason he's being sanctioned by the USOC in the first place -- they said he distracted from the achievements from Team USA. The media coverage in and of itself was annoying to the USOC, not just what might have been violated in their code of conduct handbook  Who outside of North America isn't aware of what Ryan Lochte did? You'd have to be living under not rock to know. So what the protesters did isn't continuing to raise awareness. People were already aware. Lochte's story was the biggest story at the Olympics and thereafter.  

 

They have given him more attention to Loche though, which means that people might be reading the USA Today story which also points out flaws in the Rio police's account of events as well.  If I were Brazilian, I might be  upset with the protesters for calling attention to how the Rio police may have fabricated their stories as much as  Lochte did.

Edited September 14, 2016 by bantering

[RemoteControlFreak]

1 minute ago, bantering said:

No, not all protesters look stupid. The protesters trying to accomplish systemic change are often admired.

There is no systemic change to be accomplished from this particular protest.  Yes, we've spend four pages talking about Ryan Lochte -- thus giving him more attention and less attention to everyone else. Even Laurie Hernandez, who did the best job at dancing and his highly charismatic, is getting less attention.

I never said that all protestors look foolish. I said "Protestors often look foolish, especially to those who disagree with them." I, for one, and I'm sure I'm not alone, give these protestors an A for effort in trying to get their message out and for speaking very articulately about their intent in the TMZ interview. 

Anyway, we won't agree and you get the last word on this.

I agree that Laurie Hernandez did an amazing job.  It wasn't just her dancing ability.  She had a maturity and presence that we didn't really see in Rio when NBC was hell-bent on portraying the US women gymnasts as giggling teenagers with interests no deeper than shopping and make-up, and for the most part, the athletes went along with this.  

[deltaburkefan]

Did anyone else think CAI especially (if I'm remember correctly) was shading Nastia during her praise of Laurie? She said something along the lines of, you didn't come out and do a bunch of gymnastics tricks, you danced.

Edited September 14, 2016 by deltaburkefan

[RemoteControlFreak]

53 minutes ago, deltaburkefan said:

Did anyone else think CAI especially (if I'm remember correctly) was shading Nastia during her praise of Laurie? She said something along the lines of, you didn't come out and do a bunch of gymnastics tricks, you danced.

Yes, as well as Raisman and Shawn Johnson. It was an obvious allusion to the fact that previous gymnasts on DWTS came out, at least in Week 1, flipping and jumping more than dancing.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Dancing With The Stars Rose Above Controversy

The actual dancing on the premiere is overshadowed when protests against Ryan Lochte interrupt the live broadcast.

[Victura]

54 minutes ago, RemoteControlFreak said:

Yes, as well as Raisman and Shawn Johnson. It was an obvious allusion to the fact that previous gymnasts on DWTS came out, at least in Week 1, flipping and jumping more than dancing.

Well, with the exception of Nastia who Derek assisted with a flip before their ending pose, none of them did any flips or tricks in the first week. Shawn did waltz with Mark and foxtrot with Derek in week one, and Aly did cha cha with Mark in week one. 

I actually feel like it's a bit of a misconception that gymnasts are doing more flips than dancing. Derek perhaps incorporated more of that in a few dances with Shawn the second time around, but Mark didn't allow much of it unless besides in freestyle or lindy hop, which are dances that generally have tricks anyway. 

[LotusFlower]

4 hours ago, bantering said:

 A protest in theory is supposed to accomplish something. This protest accomplished nothing except to make almost everyone laugh.

This protest accomplished nothing?  It's all anybody's talking about!  Mission accomplished.  You can certainly disagree with what they did and how they did it, and of course you're free to say they looked foolish, but you can't say they didn't make their point.  No one is talking about Ryan's foxtrot, or his personality from the video package or his partnership with Cheryl.  Instead the talk and media coverage has all been about what he did in Rio.  They accomplished their goal.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Ok, I'm admittedly not a Derek fan, but when I first heard that he was the first to jump into action, I thought it meant that he helped security pounce on the guys...something of that nature.  When I saw the video and saw that what he did was to yell "Get out of here!  This is a good show!" at the protesting ladies, I kinda laughed.  

Yeah, I kind of chuckled at that too, but the fact of the matter is that he wouldn't have been able to help security tackle the protesters or help escort them out of the studio because there are probably all kinds of laws/rules against that which would make him ripe for a lawsuit or breach of contract, or what have you. Standing up to the female protesters was about as much as he could do without getting into trouble himself. And, as opposed to keeping his mouth shut and doing nothing, I'll give him credit where credit is due.

[Archery]

Even though Laurie is far and away the best at the moment, I'm okay with that.  I like to watch the one or two who actually give good performances.  It feels good not to be wincing and worried for 90 seconds.  (It's what draws me to SYTYCD, too; good dancing makes me smile because I can't do it.)  But I'm also interested in seeing the middle of the pack people grow over the season:  the athletes and non-performers who find their inner Liza Minnelli (Sadie and any number of football players); the folks with some disability or setback who have a breakthrough  (I'll never not be impressed by Nyle dancing to silence); the random real person who makes you go, Hey, that was really good! in the 4th or 5th week; or the contestant who just surprises him-or-herself and the audience with a connected performance (like Jewel's rodeo husband).  I change the channel during the bottom third cannon fodder, as I can't stand feeling so embarrassed for them.   

[LotusFlower]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Yeah, I kind of chuckled at that too, but the fact of the matter is that he wouldn't have been able to help security tackle the protesters or help escort them out of the studio because there are probably all kinds of laws/rules against that which would make him ripe for a lawsuit or breach of contract, or what have you. Standing up to the female protesters was about as much as he could do without getting into trouble himself. And, as opposed to keeping his mouth shut and doing nothing, I'll give him credit where credit is due.

Oh don't get me wrong - I wasn't laughing at him because he didn't help security tackle the guys in any way.  It's just that the immediate press coverage of the incident made him out to be some kind of hero.  I found what he said to be kind of dorky (I already admitted to not liking him!), but even if you like what he said, I don't think anyone would call it heroic.  

[MsJamieDornan]

20 hours ago, Uke said:

Of course Derek was the only one to get all the press for his LEAVE!

No, Maks sucked up all the credit for giving a backstage interview while Derek and the others actually tried to help.

Tom handled it all very well.

[bantering]

8 hours ago, LotusFlower said:

This protest accomplished nothing?  It's all anybody's talking about!  Mission accomplished.  You can certainly disagree with what they did and how they did it, and of course you're free to say they looked foolish, but you can't say they didn't make their point.  No one is talking about Ryan's foxtrot, or his personality from the video package or his partnership with Cheryl.  Instead the talk and media coverage has all been about what he did in Rio.  They accomplished their goal.

I don't know if anybody would have talked about Ryan Lochte's foxtrot anyway. Compared to Laurie Hernandez, he wasn't that good. 

And I think people would have talked about what he did in Rio anyway. It's not like anybody could have forgotten what he did within a month.

Although everyone is talking, the mainstream articles  just kind of matter-factly state what the protesters did, but doesn't offer any opinions on whether Ryan Lochte should  be on the show.  All I see is play-by-play reporting of what happened on the stage. In fact, I see more reporting about that than what Lochte did himself.

Edited September 15, 2016 by bantering

[LotusFlower]

20 minutes ago, bantering said:

Although everyone is talking, the mainstream articles  just kind of matter-factly state what the protesters did, but doesn't offer any opinions on whether Ryan Lochte should  be on the show.  All I see is play-by-play reporting of what happened on the stage. In fact, I see more reporting about that than what Lochte did himself.

The protesters' objective was not to sway everyone over to their side, but rather to call attention to their anger at Lochte for his tale of lies, as well as at DWTS for casting him.  That's what they set out to do, that's what happened, and that's what the "play-by-play reporting" covered.

It reminds me of PETA's protests - celebs and fashion people often want to stop the protest and try to defend themselves by saying they didn't know it was real fur, it was a gift, etc., etc...  But the protesters don't care - they disrupt the fashion show, the red carpet, the book signing, whatever, and then they're out.  Their point is never to engage in dialogue - it's simply to promote their anti-fur message.  Period.  Same thing here.  How the media covered the story is less important than IF the media covered the story, which of course they did, almost exclusively.  

[bantering]

10 hours ago, LotusFlower said:

The protesters' objective was not to sway everyone over to their side, but rather to call attention to their anger at Lochte for his tale of lies, as well as at DWTS for casting him.  That's what they set out to do, that's what happened, and that's what the "play-by-play reporting" covered.

 

Yes, they called attention to their  individual, rather than any sort of collective,  anger.  Because of that, there protest came off somewhat solipsistic and narcissistic in a way that other protests don't. If they don't care, that's fine -- but that narcissism does dilute their message. 

 

Edited to add: According to this article, they might have also inadvertently called attention to a relative who was part of some Olympic ticket scam : http://www.tmz.com/2016/09/15/ryan-lochte-dwts-protesters-rio-olympics-arrest/

Edited September 15, 2016 by bantering

[RemoteControl88]

Overall thoughts on the night:

Finally got around to seeing all the dances.  Some did not do as well as I thought they would (Amber, Marilu, Jake for example). Probably just week 1 jitters...but week 2 always goes downhill for me because each team now has fewer days to get the dances down.  Amber's actual foxtrot (minus the silhouette dancing) was kind of dull and not just because it was a foxtrot.  Marilu upper body was stiff and I couldn't see her feet for parts of the dance. Jake just had sloppy footwork throughout the entire dance.  Also, comparing the energy level between Jake (non-existent) and Jenna (100 mph) it was a jarring comparison and not in a good way.

I was pleasantly surprised by Tarra and Ryan. Both were not nearly as bad as I thought they were going to be. 

Maureen did much better than the judges gave her credit for.  I will note that if she gets the fragile/emotional edit all season then it will quickly wear on my nerves. 

I thought the celeb that I would least be interested in would be Rick Perry.  He came across as a sweet.  The celeb I have no interest in at all is Jake. I can't pin point what it is about him.  My gut tells me that unless he gets a personality transplant he and Jenna are not going to make it very far in the competition.

[howmanywords]

The last 3-4 seasons I started tracking video views on the DWTS FB page and their You Tube channel because the amount of views often give an idea how the voting goes or at least an indicator of interest (especially when there are the ones who are extremely higher than the rest.  Last season it was usually Nyle/Peta who garnered the most views except for a couple of weeks..this past week the amount of views Val/Laurie and Witney/Vanilla Ice has compared to the others is staggering. On YT Val and Laurie have 478,000 views, Vanilla Ice and Witney have 309,000. The next highest is Gleb and Jen with 180,000. Oddly enough Derek/Marilu are 2nd to last with 40,000 (Maureen and Artem are last with 31,000).  Vanilla Ice/ Witney lead the FB views with 3.5 million. Gotta love that nostalgia!

[Lewis]

I think Marilu benefitted from being first of the night, got some sympathy scores from the judges. There's no was her dance was better than Maureen&Artem's. Hinch is super funny in interviews, great personality to have on the show!! 

Predictions for upcoming elimination: Jake. Too dead behind the eyes, plus in combination with a bad outting and new pro, I think his odds are slim at continuing. I feel bad for Jenna because she's such a good professional and she deserves more. 

[truthaboutluv]

Watching the dances again, I actually do agree with the judges that Marilu was better than Maureen. Yes, I hated the distraction of that tiny stage and people all around but the cameras were close up enough at many points in the dance for me to see most of what Marilu was doing and her legs were actually pretty good, in my opinion. They were pointed really well, she was hitting her kicks fairly strong and keeping up very well with Derek. Her weakness was definitely that her upper body was too stiff. She needs to relax a little more into the movements, at least from her upper half. I also would have liked a bit more flicks but that's on Derek, not Marilu. 

Maureen was uncomfortable to watch. She looked terrified and it came across in her dancing, to the point that she was stiff all over and at times it felt like Artem was dragging a stiff, trembling mannequin across the floor. At other points she seemed like she was rushing to keep up with him or rushing to get the whole thing over with and it just seemed manic and strained. Dance is your whole body, in my opinion and when someone has that deer caught in the headlights look on their face the whole time, like Maureen did, it takes me out of the dance. I was more stressed for her and uncomfortable watching, so much so that I could not appreciate whatever good steps she did do.

Edited September 15, 2016 by truthaboutluv

[LotusFlower]

4 hours ago, bantering said:

Yes, they called attention to their  individual, rather than any sort of collective,  anger.  Because of that, there protest came off somewhat solipsistic and narcissistic in a way that other protests don't. If they don't care, that's fine -- but that narcissism does dilute their message. 

But that's who/what they were protesting - an individual, not a cause or movement.  (Or put differently - their "cause" was the anti-Lochte movement).  

[bantering]

16 minutes ago, LotusFlower said:

But that's who/what they were protesting - an individual, not a cause or movement.  (Or put differently - their "cause" was the anti-Lochte movement).  

I didn't say they were protesting an individual (though yes that's what they were doing). I am saying that their protest showcased their OWN individual anger, not the collective anger felt by a certain segment of society.

Although an anti-Lochte (those who love to hate Lochte) movement exists on some level, I doubt most of them feel marginalized or disenfranchised by systemic policy failures. I suspect most of them just enjoy hating him or loving to hate him privately (most likely mocking him with friends while watching Dancing with the Stars) or on message boards.

Edited September 15, 2016 by bantering

[St. Claire]

I think I expected more of Marilu than she delivered because I remember her having had good dance skills back in her Taxi days. That being said, I am a big honking hypocrite to expect much of anything, since I am living proof of how previous dance training/skill doesn't stay with you when you stop dancing regularly and hit middle age. Going back to my first ballet class in 20+ years made me use muscles I'd forgotten I have, and my flexibility is completely shot. 

[LotusFlower]

1 hour ago, bantering said:

I didn't say they were protesting an individual (though yes that's what they were doing). I am saying that their protest showcased their OWN individual anger, not the collective anger felt by a certain segment of society.

I'm not sure how you can miss the large number of people who dislike the guy after what he did.  And the number of people who are opposed to his casting on DWTS.  That's who the protesters were representing.  And you don't have to sign a petition or be part of a union or movement or even be in favor of what they did to be part of this collective anger.  

[truthaboutluv]

1 hour ago, St. Claire said:

I think I expected more of Marilu than she delivered because I remember her having had good dance skills back in her Taxi days. That being said, I am a big honking hypocrite to expect much of anything, since I am living proof of how previous dance training/skill doesn't stay with you when you stop dancing regularly and hit middle age. Going back to my first ballet class in 20+ years made me use muscles I'd forgotten I have, and my flexibility is completely shot. 

Well and you were probably expecting more since you'd read how massive a ringer she was. The ringeriest ringer ever apparently - at 64. It's why I was actually a little amused watching her first dance. Because what I saw was a lady who yes, is in great shape at her age and isn't hopeless. But I sure didn't see a ringer.

[bantering]

46 minutes ago, LotusFlower said:

I'm not sure how you can miss the large number of people who dislike the guy after what he did.  And the number of people who are opposed to his casting on DWTS.  That's who the protesters were representing.  And you don't have to sign a petition or be part of a union or movement or even be in favor of what they did to be part of this collective anger.  

I did admit that people dislike Lochte. I mentioned that in my post However, whether most of them in very large numbers care enough to actually  go to the lengths of protesting is what I doubt. Even people in this thread who dislike him have admitted they don't care for the protesters' action and actually oppose it. 

It's now been revealed that the protesters were protesting on behalf of their relative being caught for a fake ID in Brazil and for some kind of ticket scam. Apparently they blame Lochte for putting a target on their relative's back.  I doubt most anti-Lochte people sitting at home mocking him  really want to be associated with these protesters'  reasoning if that's indeed what prompted their individual anger. I doubt any collective anger on the part of anti-Lochte people stems from being worried that they'll have a target on their American backs because Lochte has made it easier for Brazilian police to find their fake IDs and inflated-price Olympic tickets. 

Edited September 15, 2016 by bantering

[LotusFlower]

44 minutes ago, bantering said:

I did admit that people dislike Lochte. I mentioned that in my post However, whether most of them in very large numbers care enough to actually  go to the lengths of protesting is what I doubt. Even people in this thread who dislike him have admitted they don't care for the protesters' action and actually oppose it. 

One doesn't have to participate in an actual protest to share the protesters' POV.  And whether or not people approve of the protesters' tactics is besides the point (well, my point, at least) - that their protest had a goal, and they achieved it.  

[bantering]

3 hours ago, LotusFlower said:

One doesn't have to participate in an actual protest to share the protesters' POV.  And whether or not people approve of the protesters' tactics is besides the point (well, my point, at least) - that their protest had a goal, and they achieved it.  

In general, yes. But in this case, it turned out that the protesters were protesting because their cousin was part of some fake Olympic ticket scam and they blamed Lochte for their cousin getting caught. So, in this particular case, the originating point of the protest, which was more about self-interest rather than any principled stand on America or Dancing with the Stars, does have influence over how people, both for and against Lochte, perceive whether the protest made sense or not. That's a point that also needs to be taken into consideration.  

This  protest was undermined when it was revealed that the protesters have no moral high ground to stand on themselves.

Edited September 16, 2016 by bantering

[LotusFlower]

12 minutes ago, bantering said:

In general, yes. But in this case, it turned out that the protesters were protesting because their cousin was part of some fake Olympic scam and they blamed Lochte for their cousin getting caught. So, in this particular case, the originating point of the protest, which was more about self-interest rather than any principled stand on America or Dancing with the Stars, does have influence over how people, both for and against Lochte, perceive whether the protest made sense or not.

But that's not how the media covered it.  And even if more of the story is trickling out, it doesn't really matter if they protested Lochte for personal reasons or for political reasons - what matters is they protested Lochte and his gig on DWTS, and the media covered it.  

Edited September 16, 2016 by LotusFlower

[bantering]

3 minutes ago, LotusFlower said:

But that's not how the media covered it.  And even if more of the story is trickling out, it doesn't really matter if they protested Lochte for personal reasons or for political reasons - what matters is they protested Lochte and his gig on DWTS, and that's how the media covered it.  

The media didn't cover the protest as being effective or that any end goals were accomplished either.   

Edited September 16, 2016 by bantering

[LotusFlower]

1 minute ago, bantering said:

The media didn't cover the protest as being effective either. 

I don't know if I necessarily agree, but that's besides the point.  They covered it.  Exclusively and exhaustively.  That was their point (at least one of them), and they accomplished it.  I'll use my PETA example again: a lot of people don't like their tactics, but they don't care.  Their mission is to disrupt and call attention to their cause, even if it's negative (it gets people talking).  A version of any press is good press.  

[bantering]

17 minutes ago, LotusFlower said:

I don't know if I necessarily agree, but that's besides the point.  They covered it.  Exclusively and exhaustively.  That was their point (at least one of them), and they accomplished it.  I'll use my PETA example again: a lot of people don't like their tactics, but they don't care.  Their mission is to disrupt and call attention to their cause, even if it's negative (it gets people talking).  A version of any press is good press.  

Right now I see a lot of coverage on how Tom Bergeron and Carrie Ann Inaba felt during the "unnerving attack." I'm not saying that's what they intended as one of the protesters looked hilariously lost on the dance floor, but  the fact that the word "attack" is used in headlines re-focuses attention towards people on Dancing with the Stars and how they felt, rather than the protesters' stand.  I'm seeing more focus on how the security team at Dancing with the Stars handled the incident rather than on the protesters' cause (which is now mentioned less and less).

Edited September 16, 2016 by bantering

[LotusFlower]

8 minutes ago, bantering said:

Right now I see a lot of coverage on how Tom Bergeron and Carrie Ann Inaba felt during the "unnerving attack." The fact that the word "attack" is used in headlines re-focuses attention towards people on Dancing with the Stars and how they felt, rather than the protesters' stand.  I'm seeing more focus on how the security team at Dancing with the Stars handled the incident rather than on the protesters' cause (which is now mentioned less and less).

But it's days later, so it doesn't really matter, or it's certainly less important.  (Ex: it's really just you and me going back and forth on this over here, whereas it involved a lot more people on Mon. night and the next day, which is indicative of the outside-PTV world, too!). And again, even if the coverage has changed or is less sympathetic, it means people are still talking, and any press is good press.  

[bantering]

5 minutes ago, LotusFlower said:

But it's days later, so it doesn't really matter, or it's certainly less important.  (Ex: it's really just you and me going back and forth on this over here, whereas it involved a lot more people on Mon. night and the next day, which is indicative of the outside-PTV world, too!). And again, even if the coverage has changed or is less sympathetic, it means people are still talking, and any press is good press.  

The press is certainly good for Dancing with the Stars. More people will probably tune in.

Basically, I agree with this columnist who has a line in his column that made me laugh:

"Protesting a reality show because it cast a controversial figure is like freaking out because a passport office has long waits: that’s just the way the system works."

https://www.thestar.com/entertainment/2016/09/14/dancing-with-the-stars-protest-had-two-left-feet-menon.html

Well, at least the protesters liked the LAPD well enough. So there's that.

Edited September 16, 2016 by bantering