S04.E08: To Have and To Hold

[Jellybeans]

Why have we decided he is gay based on a one hour show with editing monkeys...?  He seems very shy and reticent with his feelings.  Does that make him gay?

[izabella]

19 minutes ago, RocketGirl said:

So Nick is not into Sonia...is that a crime?  Maybe he wants someone who loves dogs, is slimmer and more athletic, is perhaps more intellectually challenging to him, less in need of constant validation, and less in debt.  Maybe it's a little too awkward for him to come right out with that on national TV.  He may have initially been open to possibilities with her, but has found the constant drum beat of her expectations a turn off.  I can understand his desire to see things develop organically and not because they are forced.  At least he isn't totally leading her on with his actions.  If he was, then he'd be tarred and feathered as another Basement Ryan.

On her part, why is she so anxious to have sex with a guy who so obviously isn't into her?  While nice, she strikes me as being a bit shallow and immature, and seems to just want to be married and have kids...with any guy.  Nick may find her boring.

I agree and think he's "just not that into her." 

She doesn't like his dogs, they have ZERO conversations about anything interesting going on in their lives or in the world, seemingly have little in common, they don't really share a sense of humor, and she's a nervous kitten all the time about everything, there doesn't seem to be much of an intellectual connection, nothing. 

I would not be at all surprised if Sonia just isn't his physical type and personality type and that's that.  One of my college roommates dated a guy (and then lived with him, and then married him) who is metro, and gave off far more gay vibes than Nick does.  Still, he wasn't gay or bi, just metro.  HIS type of girl (my roommate) appreciated the type of metro guy he is (which Sonia does NOT appreciate about Nick), and they shared an intellectual connection as well as sense of humor and shared activities (dancing, music, movies, books, fine clothes, offbeat and eclectic tastes, plus an obsession with potato chips, lol) that formed the basis of their emotional connection.  He and Sonia never would have worked and he wouldn't have been attracted to her, though, because his type is the opposite of Sonia.

Edited September 14, 2016 by izabella

[numbnut]

OMG, this show is so s...l...o..w. So much repetitive info. If I skip to the new content, the show only lasts 15 minutes. Is there anyone on Earth who didn't think Heather wanted a divorce ASAP?

[henrysmom]

Quote

an obsession with potato chips

Darn it.  My perfect man and he's taken.

[RocketGirl]

18 minutes ago, Jellybeans said:

Why have we decided he is gay based on a one hour show with editing monkeys...?  He seems very shy and reticent with his feelings.  Does that make him gay?

Well, we decided that Derek is a pothead too.  It's a way to try to make sense out of some of the nonsense on this show, which leaves out so much factual information.  It is what makes the forums so interesting though.

[Jack Sampson]

26 minutes ago, RocketGirl said:

So Nick is not into Sonia...is that a crime?  Maybe he wants someone who loves dogs, is slimmer and more athletic, is perhaps more intellectually challenging to him, less in need of constant validation, and less in debt.  

No, no, no...he must be gay.  It makes far more sense that a gay man slipped through the screening process and fooled everyone to promote an airbnb and a t-shirt.

I don't get why Nick has to be gay because he isn't into a clingy, girl-voiced, "un-slim" (other words to that effect get me banned) girl who wants someone to pay for her bad career decisions.

[Evil Queen]

4 hours ago, Vinyasa said:

Why on earth was Derek still wearing the wedding ring after they called it quits?  He had it on when we was going to work the next day and when he went to his friend's condo.

Why do I think we are going to see Heather and Derek to end of this show? I don't need to see them telling everyone the "marriage of two weeks" is over.

From what I understand they signed contracts to be on the show for the certain time frame so they have to do scenes still for it. So the reasoning is now to be supportive for them during the time as the excuse to keep showing them on the show. I wouldn't be surprised if he is keeping it on to make it more of an "oh poor Derek and how he wanted to make it work and is wearing the ring still"...when really it isn't poor Derek at all. 

2 hours ago, Liberty said:

The producers are learning from their previous failures to let Heather out early.  The producers also play with the timelines in each marriage, so just because Tom & Lily were on day X, does not mean any of the other couples were on the same day.  It is entirely possible that Heather divorce declaration was filmed a day or two after returning from Puerto Rico, even though the episode showed the other couples a different number of days after their weddings.

The timelines is just nuts in this. I don't remember it ever being so all over the place in the past either. One minute its they just got married and its 5 days in and day 1-2 of the honeymoon and now its 2 weeks later. Its not always the couples saying it. Its usually the "experts" saying it over scenes so its hard to know where it is they are at in the marriage at times. LOL

1 hour ago, Lesia said:

ok, so I had the tv on after the show ended.  I went to do laundry, or something.  I came back upstairs, and there's Nick yelling:

"I can't talk about my feelings!  I don't know how to open up! I don't like her!  I'm not attracted to her! OK, there's my feelings!!" then

*MARRIED AT FIRST SIGHT NEXT TUESDAY 8:45"

or something like that.  did anybody else catch that???????

Yep. Looked like he was yelling the I'm not attracted part in more a TH type scene than in the room with her but he was yelling at her in other scenes. 

1 hour ago, psychoticstate said:

Well, that was no surprise.  However, I did feel sad for Derek.  Heather saying that Derek would have married anyone they set him up with while she wanted the right person pretty much sums up what is wrong with Heather.  This is MAFS, for God's sake.  The whole point of the show/experiment is to marry whoever they choose for you.  IMO this definitely shows that Heather was not invested and did this on a lark or whatever.  Very unfair to Derek or whoever she may have been matched with.  I understand that if there is some major lifestyle conflict (drugs; alcohol; wants children/doesn't want children, etc.) you would know immediately that this person will never work with you.  So if that was the case, they should simply say it.  If not, Heather didn't give things a fair shake.

I may stand alone but I didn't mind the scenes of them afterward.  Their parting was mucho awkward but I think seeing Derek after the fact, still wearing his wedding ring and saying that he felt humiliated and dreading having to tell his family, friends and co-workers that his wife wanted out after 2 weeks (and basically 2 days in) was important.  Regardless of what his lifestyle choices are or are not, I think he was committed to doing it and making it work.  I did feel terrible for him wondering if it was him and if he was destined to be alone.  I think we've all been there.

Nick and Sonia . . . oh boy.  I so want for them to work out.  I do think that Nick is basically introverted. 

I wonder if the show will continue to give us little bits of Derek and/or Heather on their own or if they are out now.  I know we see Derek telling his mom (?) about what happened.  Wonder if Heather will do the same?  Are they still contractually obligated to appear on the show?   

I don't feel bad for Derek at all. I think her saying he would have married anyone they set him up with was not what some are making it seem but more of a he was so desperate he would have taken anyone. I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case. The comments he makes and some of the things he has said on past relationships not working, I think he would have to. Most women are not going to put up with a guy that feels its ok to wake up first thing and get high or that only his opinion on things matter. Not once was it asked of him (that we saw) on what he could have done to make things work. It was all on her. I still believe we are missing big parts of their story but all we got was smoking and they wouldn't even be honest on what it was. It seems we will be stuck hearing him whine until this show is over and more pitty me from him. SMH

Sorry I am so not buying Nick is an introvert at all. He is far from it. People thought Heather was the Ashley of the season but sorry that honor goes to Nick. He is just a cold mean person. 

33 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

Question:  If it turns out that Nick is gay, could Sonia sue the producers?  Could the producers sue Nick for fraud? 

I'm asking because I assume that the participants present themselves as heterosexual and this is a show about heterosexual marriage.  Would that be fraud if you said you presented as heterosexual, knowing you weren't?

Good question and I guess it will come down to how they have written contracts for them. Yet it would be considered fraud I would think. 

28 minutes ago, Vinyasa said:

I don't know if I'd call it "classy" but it was short and to the point.

We need a producer to spill the beans to find out what really did happen between them (like someone did in Season 2). If we don't get Kevin Frazier at the reunion show, all bets are off for the getting the good stuff.

It was the word I could think of at the time but it was basically to point out that she was being more mature about how she handled it compared to what she probably could have been, kwim? Yet he is whiny over it all. I can imagine both being embarrassed about it not working and being so short but oh well. It would still be embarrassing at the 6 week mark as well. I wonder if we will ever get the real story. 

9 minutes ago, lh25 said:

OK, I get that pink eye isn't the same as a failing liver, but when it's your deal it matters.

I have cancer and am getting treatment right now, and I'm here to say chemo s*cks.  I've had friends say things like "I feel bad complaining about my problems when you are facing what you are".  I tell them that their problems are important as well, since they are what my friends are facing.  If that makes any sense?

There is some perspective involved of course, and Lily is pretty young and perhaps hasn't had to deal with health issues before.  Add to that her new and unusual marriage, and I can see being concerned.  Esp since their relationship seems to be slanted towards the physical still.

Sorry you are going through that LH25. Positive thoughts sent your way!!! I get what you are saying. Everyone goes through different ways of dealing with things. If you have never been put under for surgery it can be scary or it could be as you get older compared to a younger age. I wasn't scared of it when I had wisdom teeth removed in my late teens but was a bit more scared of it when I had to deal with gallstones (which was at Lily's age) but I had a 4 month old son I was taking care of on my own at the time so it freaked me out. Now if I had to go under I would freak out even more. I figured she may not have ever been through something like that and is in this new marriage that she has no clue how he will be about it all. As it is some have a spouse/partner that many years down the line they didn't handle these kind of things and left them to deal on their own and they would never have guessed it would be that way. I wouldn't be surprised either if the way it was edited was to make it look like she had up and left but he knew she had an appt with the doctor and was just trying to see how it went. 

4 minutes ago, SaucyMommy said:

When they were doing the Tantra touching she looked really relaxed and he looked petrified. I wondered if he just didn't like her or was scared of the cameras. I really don't think he likes her at all. I mean she is nice, but it is coming off desperate if you want someone to touch you when they clearly don't - pushing them will only make them defensive. He just seems like he is shutting down more and more every episode that goes on.

I thought he was goofing off at one point when they were doing the breathing and the oddball lady was in front of him. Its how he looked to me. Which I still am not understanding why they had them do this. It was not going to do any good for them IMO and was just coming off so weird thanks to that lady. The thing with Sonia coming off desperate, the thing is she doesn't know he doesn't want to touch her or not in her mind since he has not said one way or another what is going on in his head. He doesn't tell her anything so she is left to wonder what is up and tries in ways to get him to say things but she seems to have to tip toe around it all and how she words things. The second she asked him to open up he blurts out coldly he doesn't love her but yet he could have instead asked what she wants to know about him. The only reason I can see he didn't was because he doesn't want her to get to know him even on a friends level. I had though that maybe they would have been able to be good friends but lately I can't even see that coming out of this. IMO he was never open to be able to shut down. He has been shut down from the get go. I feel for Sonia. 

[okerry]

11 minutes ago, Jack Sampson said:

No, no, no...he must be gay.  It makes far more sense that a gay man slipped through the screening process and fooled everyone to promote an airbnb and a t-shirt.

I don't get why Nick has to be gay because he isn't into a clingy, girl-voiced, "un-slim" (other words to that effect get me banned) girl who wants someone to pay for her bad career decisions.

This show is so desperate for camera-ready men to sign up that yes, they may well have let him through hoping the two of them would agree to fake it for the show - at least long enough to get through the season and collect their money. That would not surprise me at all.

[Minney]

Maybe it's just me but I'm finding the "professionals" tactics this season coming across as straight up bullying and manipulation.  Thank goodness Heather stuck to her guns and called for the divorce.  It's not even anything against Derek as much as she saw the farce that the match-makers were pulling and wasn't going to play their game.  The other couples are a bit more trusting and seem to be allowing themselves to buy into the "process" or they are just willing to play along for a few more weeks.  Over all the seasons this is the most obvious that they just threw darts at the board and called them "matches".  I'm having a difficult time finding anything remotely close to having things in common between these couples that would constitute a good match.  Beyond that, none of their personalities are lending themselves to make good tv either.  Thought maybe Miami would bring the fire needed to refuel this show but no...

[Evil Queen]

36 minutes ago, Jellybeans said:

Why have we decided he is gay based on a one hour show with editing monkeys...?  He seems very shy and reticent with his feelings.  Does that make him gay?

Dude is not shy at all. That is not why I have said he is gay either. There is so much more there that led to it. The scene with him and one of his friends really spoke volumes to me. 

12 minutes ago, Jack Sampson said:

No, no, no...he must be gay.  It makes far more sense that a gay man slipped through the screening process and fooled everyone to promote an airbnb and a t-shirt.

I don't get why Nick has to be gay because he isn't into a clingy, girl-voiced, "un-slim" (other words to that effect get me banned) girl who wants someone to pay for her bad career decisions.

Why is it a bad career decision to be a social worker? Just because she isn't making a ton doesn't mean she wants a rich man (which IMO Nick is not). He has his own debt and wasn't it more than what she had? All he does is push his clothing line on the show. Wouldn't be surprised either if they are in his rental too so he can advertise it as seen on MAFS to drum up more business. He wouldn't be the first person to go along with a show to push their businesses no matter what the show was. They have a guy smoking pot that slipped through and "experts" that are oblivious to the fact that there is no "fire" between these too but the one seems to thing there is and pushing Sonia to believe it. I don't see her as "clingy" or "un-slim" either. I think anyone in this situation would want to know where they stand with the person they were matched with. Which instead of yelling later on he doesn't like her he should have been upfront with her. This is the totally another Ashley/David situation. The one comes off looking desperate because the other one won't admit they aren't attracted. Yet here we now have it as Nick/Sonia. 

 

5 minutes ago, Minney said:

Maybe it's just me but I'm finding the "professionals" tactics this season coming across as straight up bullying and manipulation.  Thank goodness Heather stuck to her guns and called for the divorce.  It's not even anything against Derek as much as she saw the farce that the match-makers were pulling and wasn't going to play their game.  The other couples are a bit more trusting and seem to be allowing themselves to buy into the "process" or they are just willing to play along for a few more weeks.  Over all the seasons this is the most obvious that they just threw darts at the board and called them "matches".  I'm having a difficult time finding anything remotely close to having things in common between these couples that would constitute a good match.  Beyond that, none of their personalities are lending themselves to make good tv either.  Thought maybe Miami would bring the fire needed to refuel this show but no...

Agree but they did it in the past as well at times too. I think its just a bit more noticeable now as the seasons go on and more on the side of bullying or manipulating.... such as Rachel telling Sonia there was a fire there or whatever word she used. But no one seems to be matched for any reason at all. In the past we hear all these reasons why and the one time they say something about why it was the lame reason that they are good and authentic. Which is not a reason for matching them if there is nothing else. I wouldn't be surprised if it was dart board style matching or let's mix the names in a hat and pull ones out. I am glad someone finally stood up like this and said its not going to work out at all and was done instead of being bullied into showing misery for the rest of the 6 weeks because it won't work no mater what. Its to bad this didn't happen in past seasons when it should have. 

[Vinyasa]

After last night, I am kinda, sorta, maybe thinking Sonia would have been good matched with David.

Seems like she would appreciate a guy like him and he would be attracted to her in time.

Thoughts??

[Evil Queen]

Just now, Vinyasa said:

After last night, I am kinda, sorta, maybe thinking Sonia would have been good matched with David.

Seems like she would appreciate a guy like him and he would be attracted to her in time.

Thoughts??

While I don't like matching ones from different seasons but I think that she needed to be matched with a man similar to how David was. 

[Jack Sampson]

1 minute ago, Evil Queen said:

Why is it a bad career decision to be a social worker? Just because she isn't making a ton doesn't mean she wants a rich man (which IMO Nick is not).

Going back to the matchmaking special, they specifically picked Nick to finance Sonia's lifestyle.  I'm guessing it's because her career can't support that lifestyle, otherwise she wouldn't need financing. 

[ciaoformeow]

4 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

Well, until last night I wasn't sure. Now I'm in the "he's gay" camp.  What woman is going to have sex in a public pool bathroom? As shy as Nick is supposedly, does anybody really see him as a willing participant in having quickie sex with any female in a pool bathroom? If he's not willing to do it with Sonia (anywhere), who is pretty and nice, why in hell would he do it with some skank like that? Nope, that was some random man sex right there.  That wasn't the only red flag, though.  When the therapist asked what has attracted him in the past to women, he kept referring to a women as "them", not she or her, or girl or woman.  He was totally non specific with gender which was glaringly obvious. 

RAISING MY HAND

 

I would and have had adventourous sex in the path and you don't know any of the details around that story.

 

I was with 1 man who was a wild lover, 10 years later and he still is.

I wouldn't do that NOW at my current age etc (mostly for fear of losing my balance and breaking something) but 10 years ago we even went for it in a building under construction, a roof top of an apartment complex, a dark alley not far from a bar and I can probably name off more. 

 

We had and have an amazing connection -- and who is to say Nick wasn't in a relationship with a perfectly nice woman (or man) who was just sexually more adventurous than you're used to  No big deal. Doesn't mean anyone is a "skank" as you put it.  And if it does then I'm happy to wear the label because my sex life (again, with 1 person) is bomb! 

[Jack Sampson]

3 minutes ago, Vinyasa said:

After last night, I am kinda, sorta, maybe thinking Sonia would have been good matched with David.

Seems like she would appreciate a guy like him and he would be attracted to her in time.

Thoughts??

Anything would have been better than Trashley.

[Empress1]

11 minutes ago, Evil Queen said:

Why is it a bad career decision to be a social worker? Just because she isn't making a ton doesn't mean she wants a rich man (which IMO Nick is not). He has his own debt and wasn't it more than what she had? All he does is push his clothing line on the show. Wouldn't be surprised either if they are in his rental too so he can advertise it as seen on MAFS to drum up more business. He wouldn't be the first person to go along with a show to push their businesses no matter what the show was. They have a guy smoking pot that slipped through and "experts" that are oblivious to the fact that there is no "fire" between these too but the one seems to thing there is and pushing Sonia to believe it. I don't see her as "clingy" or "un-slim" either. I think anyone in this situation would want to know where they stand with the person they were matched with. Which instead of yelling later on he doesn't like her he should have been upfront with her. This is the totally another Ashley/David situation. The one comes off looking desperate because the other one won't admit they aren't attracted. Yet here we now have it as Nick/Sonia. 

No. Sonia's debt is double Nick's, $40K in student loans and credit cards to Nick's $20K in student loans. Nick also makes about twice what Sonia does annually, $80-$90K to her $43K. Nick isn't rich but he's doing much better than she is - I think they all are. (But I staunchly disagree that becoming a social worker is a bad career decision.) 

9 minutes ago, Evil Queen said:

While I don't like matching ones from different seasons but I think that she needed to be matched with a man similar to how David was. 

I think someone as emotive as David is would be good for Sonia; her biggest gripe with Nick seems to be that she doesn't know what he's thinking. I think she needs someone a little more mature than David is though. I think an older guy would be good for Sonia, someone with more of a caretaker vibe.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Empress1

[SaucyMommy]

I immediately thought he was gay when he said sex in a public bathroom at a pool. The city I live in is very gay friendly - and many of the YMCA's are known for sex in the steam rooms and showers. I have had friends go there specifically for that reason. There is just too much about him and his affect that screams gay to me than him just not being in to her. But that's for another thread.

It amazes me that they say they know things about each other - but in the scenes it never shows them actually talking about anything. Are they both that introverted that even chit-chat is hard?

[Evil Queen]

15 minutes ago, Jack Sampson said:

Going back to the matchmaking special, they specifically picked Nick to finance Sonia's lifestyle.  I'm guessing it's because her career can't support that lifestyle, otherwise she wouldn't need financing. 

That is the idiot "experts" saying that not Sonia. We know how that goes with them saying anything about matching these people. I haven't seen anything that screams she needs a certain lifestyle financed by someone or even her act like or say it. So I don't buy it. 

[RocketGirl]

44 minutes ago, Evil Queen said:

The thing with Sonia coming off desperate, the thing is she doesn't know he doesn't want to touch her or not in her mind since he has not said one way or another what is going on in his head. He doesn't tell her anything so she is left to wonder what is up... 

As a guy once explained to me, if a guy is into you, you'll know it.  He will make sure you know it.  If he's not doing that, then he's not that into you.  That being said, it might take any guy a little while to decide whether he's into a stranger he just met at the altar.

[zxy556575]

23 hours ago, psychoticstate said:

Well, that was no surprise. However, I did feel sad for Derek.

Heather was d-o-n-e. I guess props to her for not pretending and a continued mental mooning to Ashley who couldn't even extend David that courtesy.

Whatever Nick's problems are, he is completely unsuited for this experiment, as were half the other gits who have been chosen. Did the casting announcement specifically ask for aimless Peter Pan men who are overly attached to their mothers/grandmothers? Because Doug, Vaughn, Ryan R., Ryan D., Derek, and Tom sure don't seem to want to let go of their bachelor lives and fucking grow up.

Edited September 15, 2016 by lordonia

[okerry]

40 minutes ago, lilsadone said:

-- and who is to say Nick wasn't in a relationship with a perfectly nice woman (or man) who was just sexually more adventurous than you're used to  No big deal. Doesn't mean anyone is a "skank" as you put it.  And if it does then I'm happy to wear the label because my sex life (again, with 1 person) is bomb! 

But Nick didn't say anything about that being part of a "relationship." Has he ever talked about an actual "relationship" with a woman? Dating, engaged, long-term, short-term, anything? That's what set off the small alarm bells that maybe this guy should not have been matched with a straight female. He sounded exactly like a guy who had hooked up with another guy in a public restroom.

You can tell a lot from what people don't say. Sometimes, more than from what they do say.

[psychoticstate]

1 hour ago, Evil Queen said:

I don't feel bad for Derek at all. I think her saying he would have married anyone they set him up with was not what some are making it seem but more of a he was so desperate he would have taken anyone. I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case. The comments he makes and some of the things he has said on past relationships not working, I think he would have to. Most women are not going to put up with a guy that feels its ok to wake up first thing and get high or that only his opinion on things matter. Not once was it asked of him (that we saw) on what he could have done to make things work. It was all on her. I still believe we are missing big parts of their story but all we got was smoking and they wouldn't even be honest on what it was. It seems we will be stuck hearing him whine until this show is over and more pitty me from him. SMH

Sorry I am so not buying Nick is an introvert at all. He is far from it. People thought Heather was the Ashley of the season but sorry that honor goes to Nick. He is just a cold mean person. 

Tomato, ta-mahto, I guess.  I don't agree with Heather's remark on Derek marrying anyone to show that he simply wants to be married because isn't that the sole purpose and intent of this show?  

Much as others, myself included, don't want to immediately go to "Nick's gay," I also don't want to immediately say that Derek is a pothead who gets baked first thing in the morning because we don't know that for certain.  Yes, it does appear that he was/is a pot smoker but since they have not shown us nor addressed it absolutely, I'm not going to say it's so.  

Do I think Derek and Heather were a good match?  No.  Maybe it's the experts' fault.  Maybe it's Heather's fault because she didn't specify exactly what she was looking for.  Maybe it was Derek's fault because he wasn't honest.  Who knows?   I'm going based on what is being shown on the program and what we've been shown on the program is that Heather checked out and shut down almost immediately and didn't appear to give Derek a chance.  If it was a lifestyle choice that simply could not be overcome, I understand and that's on the experts (provided both Heather and Derek were honest) for matching them to begin with.

I think a lot of stuff must have been cut because Derek did say that he stopped smoking as soon as Heather brought it up.  And again, from what we saw, he did try to get to know her, have fun with activities in PR and again, from what we saw, she was dour and no fun.  So based on what MAFS showed to us, Heather appeared to have done nothing to try and make the situation work or at least make it more comfortable for both of them.  

This season may very well kill the show.  The six weeks basically means nothing if Heather or anyone else can check out two weeks in.  What's the point? Other than getting a paid for party (wedding) and a honeymoon trip . . . and your 15 minutes on tv. 

[Jellybeans]

33 minutes ago, SaucyMommy said:

It amazes me that they say they know things about each other - but in the scenes it never shows them actually talking about anything. Are they both that introverted that even chit-chat is hard?

I seem to remember Nick saying something about it being easier to talk off camera to Sonia. 

[StayingAfterSunday]

16 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

Yeah, when I heard Nick say "The rest room at a public pool" I finished the sentence with "At the YMCA".

I, too, think Nick is gay, and it just makes me so angry to think of the time wasted during the process of  matching him with a woman, watching him implode on t.v., listening to his stilted explanations of why he hasn't touched her (heaven forbid he should use her name), and waiting for the inevitable outcome. Maybe he doesn't want to disappoint his mother by "coming out," although she seems very accepting of him on all fronts.   When he blew a gasket upon being asked by Sonia to "open up," the worst was yet to come, as evidenced by his follow-up announcement in a separate clip, "I'm not attracted to her," "I don't like her," etc. The prior episode has him revealing, with the gentleness of an AK-47, that he doesn't love Sonia.  Well, no one expects him to "love" a stranger after two weeks - and Sonia, from what I can tell, has not asked him if to profess his love for her.  Yet, it seems each week Nick's declarations get more ballsy, excoriating and, well, HONEST.  If he really is gay, it's just too damned bad he wasn't honest from the beginning, before he filled out an application to be on the show, presenting himself as a straight man.  

[Snewtsie]

2 hours ago, Neurochick said:

Question:  If it turns out that Nick is gay, could Sonia sue the producers?  Could the producers sue Nick for fraud? 

I'm asking because I assume that the participants present themselves as heterosexual and this is a show about heterosexual marriage.  Would that be fraud if you said you presented as heterosexual, knowing you weren't?

I am guessing the participants must sign a gazillion contracts, and cannot sue the producers if a fellow participant misrepresents himself/herself.  To get around that, I think they would have to show criminal activity or financial damages as a result of it.  Even then, I think they would have to prove the producers were negligent in conducting a sufficient background check that would have revealed the blatant deceit.  However, I do think it would be a valid reason to have the marriage annulled.  The experts keep saying the couples must divorce, but I think this would be a case where an actual annulment would be granted.

[ciaoformeow]

19 minutes ago, okerry said:

But Nick didn't say anything about that being part of a "relationship." Has he ever talked about an actual "relationship" with a woman? Dating, engaged, long-term, short-term, anything? That's what set off the small alarm bells that maybe this guy should not have been matched with a straight female. He sounded exactly like a guy who had hooked up with another guy in a public restroom.

You can tell a lot from what people don't say. Sometimes, more than from what they do say.

That's the point - he didn't say it was in one, or outside of one or with a man or woman - at all. Or, they didn't show it. So who are we to assume he was having some random fling with some person he met 5 seconds prior.  Even if it were with a man - doesn't mean it's  a "skank" thing to do, which is what I was talking about. You can have a fun sex life (with men or women or both) and not be a skank.

Edited September 14, 2016 by lilsadone

[zxy556575]

3 hours ago, psychoticstate said:

Much as others, myself included, don't want to immediately go to "Nick's gay," I also don't want to immediately say that Derek is a pothead who gets baked first thing in the morning because we don't know that for certain.

Aw, c'mon. There would be zero discussion without snap judgments, baseless speculation, armchair diagnosing, and extrapolating our own singular experiences onto others. ;)

Edited September 14, 2016 by lordonia

[SaucyMommy]

I really wanted Derek and Heather to at least try to make it work, and clearly Derek was committed to the experiment. It makes me sad that for him he was set up with someone that made her judgements initially and stuck with them. She reminds me of someone that LOOKS for issues in her partners. She is looking for the red flags - much like Davina. She didn't want it to work and kept harping on one comment he made about a casino. I was not surprised she wanted a divorce at all. I was surprised that Tara's summary she was surprised though. Generally I agree with almost all of her summaries :)

[gonecrackers]

First post here after much reading & enjoying!

I didn't think I'd like Heather much, at first, but I think she made a wise decision to leave that 'marriage' fiasco. Derrick isn't suited for anyone right now; he still has growing up to do. I'm probably in the minority, but I think Derrick was the one who checked out first, right from the get go. Heather had said after the wedding that when she saw Derrick she was 'relieved', that Derrick had a 'kind face', & that she 'felt safe'. Derrick said when he heard she was a flight attendant his 'heart sank a little'. Maybe she really wasn't what *he* was looking for, so he didn't care much what impression he was giving off to her. Maybe that's why he wanted to smoke & didn't worry about how much (or what it was, perhaps). I also wonder if he made advances, since his tantrum about the surfer dude, when he said 'your husband can't touch you' but you can touch that guy, or something like that.  I think she needed to take a step back & evaluate this guy, which I wouldn't blame her for at all. Maybe he wanted sex & when that wasn't going to happen he really got nasty. Those remarks on her age & how women in general age were uncalled for & immature. He was also raising his voice & lecturing to her. I give her kudos for getting out of that one because she's have a lousy life with someone like that.

Why they're milking it is beyond me. She took off for work, so now we have to watch him feel sorry for himself with family & friends; ugh.  Honestly his friend, with the nude woman on his wall, seems quite immature as well. If that's what his crowd is like I couldn't see Heather feeling comfortable with them. Maybe he said he's not ready to date yet but (in pure speculation) I could see Derrick & his bud hitting the clubs for some action that night, 'just' to blow off some steam. Heather is better off now, probably regretting signing up for that which she should.

One thing though, I wonder how she was going to even grow any relationship with a stranger is she'd be traveling. In the long run it's better for both of them it's over.

Sonia & Nick are painful; I wonder if there's some 'playing along' with story lines going on there. If I were 'deathly afraid' of dogs I probably wouldn't be able to stay in the same house with them. It's more likely she's just uncomfortable/nervous around them, or it's being played up for affect & Nick is loving playing along with all the (gross to me) doggie smooches.

I think Nick checked out from the first moment. His face never lit up; he never looked excited, or even relieved, when she walked out in her gown. He was so stiff from the get go. Then he mentioned his dogs, she replied she is afraid of them & he looked like 'oh crap'. He was done from the get go but is just trying to play along, badly. Maybe in the beginning he thought he could get past it, but now it seems he can't bring himself to anything physical because he does not see anything happening with them.

I haven't liked Tom much with his postnup (but he's the one with debt, so?? - well maybe it's good for Lilly then!), the bus thing that he actually expects someone to live on, & the nasty remark about small children (they can't help it - adults on the other hand... hmmmm, Tom). Anyway, he seems supportive of Lilly with her surgery so I'm still watching him. However I'm not so sure Lilly is too into him, yet, so I am curious how it plays out between them.

Edited September 14, 2016 by gonecrackers

[DocTerv]

I'd love to know what in the world they're asking these people during the "scientific matchmaking" portion of this process. Shouldn't the couples have more in common than "They are both nice people."? How MAFStestants feel about partners who use drugs or drink, love or fear common pets, want kids or don't, live fugally or with loads of debt, seems like basic life choices that would be taken into consideration during the matching.

You don't think they'd match people based on increased probability of drama do you? Perish the very thought.

Best wishes to LH25 for an excellent recovery!

[Snarklepuss]

6 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

Well, until last night I wasn't sure. Now I'm in the "he's gay" camp.  What woman is going to have sex in a public pool bathroom? As shy as Nick is supposedly, does anybody really see him as a willing participant in having quickie sex with any female in a pool bathroom? If he's not willing to do it with Sonia (anywhere), who is pretty and nice, why in hell would he do it with some skank like that? Nope, that was some random man sex right there.  That wasn't the only red flag, though.  When the therapist asked what has attracted him in the past to women, he kept referring to a women as "them", not she or her, or girl or woman.  He was totally non specific with gender which was glaringly obvious.

ITA and pretty much said the same thing in my first post to this thread.   Nick referred to the people he had relationships/sex with as "someone", which to me was a bright waving red flag when added up with every other bright waving red flag about him.  Why didn't he just say "a woman" or "a girlfriend" or whatever?  I would NEVER have used that terminology in that context.  I would have said, "When I have had sex with guys before, I've chosen them myself" or whatever.  I would never just say, "someone" or "the person".  I have been around people who were trying to conceal stuff like that before and his doing that was CLASSIC for someone not wanting to "out" themselves as far as sexual orientation.  This is not to say that Nick has never had a relationship with a woman before.  He may be bisexual, but I'm willing to BET that most of his recent sexual relationships/encounters have been with men.  I am WAY too old and have known WAY too many men not to pick that out right away, LOL.  You can't tell me that a guy that was basically in a girl sandwich in that tantric session wouldn't be at least a little turned on by it?  Even sweet lilttle Sonia was, that was obvious!  Meanwhile, he looked like he was about to PUKE after that was over!

[Lola16]

1 hour ago, Vinyasa said:

After last night, I am kinda, sorta, maybe thinking Sonia would have been good matched with David.

Seems like she would appreciate a guy like him and he would be attracted to her in time.

Thoughts??

Nope. David was doughy, clingy, and all sound bytes.  He was this season's Derek without the pot and cartoon sharpy tattoos. He was a "nice guy" in quotes only.

Sonia would have done better with Tres who at least seemed genuine. Don't think that would have been a match that lasted either since Tres likes to date white girls.

Hopefully Sonia gains confidence and moves on.

Hopefully Nick stops being such a closed off arsehole.

[Neurochick]

48 minutes ago, Snewtsie said:

I am guessing the participants must sign a gazillion contracts, and cannot sue the producers if a fellow participant misrepresents himself/herself.  To get around that, I think they would have to show criminal activity or financial damages as a result of it.  Even then, I think they would have to prove the producers were negligent in conducting a sufficient background check that would have revealed the blatant deceit.  However, I do think it would be a valid reason to have the marriage annulled.  The experts keep saying the couples must divorce, but I think this would be a case where an actual annulment would be granted.

Well that's a good point.  If it turns out that Nick is gay, why should he and Sonia have to get a divorce?  If Nick is gay then he misrepresented himself as a straight male, which means that Sonia got duped on national TV.   I feel she's entitled to some kind of compensation. 

However, if it turns out that Nick just isn't attracted to her, at all then there's no compensation for that.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Neurochick

[RocketGirl]

36 minutes ago, DocTerv said:

I'd love to know what in the world they're asking these people during the "scientific matchmaking" portion of this process.

Cilona is gone so we don't know whether they're still using his "instruments".  I don't know whether that means this season should be better or worse.

[Evil Queen]

1 hour ago, RocketGirl said:

As a guy once explained to me, if a guy is into you, you'll know it.  He will make sure you know it.  If he's not doing that, then he's not that into you.  That being said, it might take any guy a little while to decide whether he's into a stranger he just met at the altar.

While I think that goes for the way we would meet in everyday life and date but obviously in this kind of situation it could be different depending on the people. I wouldn't fault them for being scared and nervous at first since its going in to something without seeing the person and knowing one thing about them. BUT most would start up talking and finding out about each other the second they could. Seeing what they had in common, likes, dislikes, and so on. That could help in building a possible attraction as well but with this we see them keep claiming he is shy/introverted and so it takes time and blah blah blah. So with that she is left wondering what is up. I wouldn't be surprised if she gets the feeling he isn't into her but she wants to be told one way or the other to know for sure. Makes sense in this kind of situation. Where as if this was just dating some random guy and they acted this way she could dump him and move on for not showing signs either way. The thing that starts to blur it all though is the act he puts on for the "experts" as they come by and he claims the marriage is an 8 or its all fine or whatever he wants to say to act like its all good. Plus you have Rachel there telling Sonia she sees that fire between them. Which I think many of us are probably seeing that and asking where because its not between those 2. LOL

1 hour ago, okerry said:

But Nick didn't say anything about that being part of a "relationship." Has he ever talked about an actual "relationship" with a woman? Dating, engaged, long-term, short-term, anything? That's what set off the small alarm bells that maybe this guy should not have been matched with a straight female. He sounded exactly like a guy who had hooked up with another guy in a public restroom.

You can tell a lot from what people don't say. Sometimes, more than from what they do say.

Completely agree with this. With all his talk around things and never actually mentioning a relationship or if he has had one with a woman or even a man or both, its pretty easy to see things for what they are. I don't know a single person that says things in the manner he does when referring to someone he was dating or sleeping with or whatever. Usually you hear them say him or her.

17 minutes ago, Lola16 said:

Nope. David was doughy, clingy, and all sound bytes.  He was this season's Derek without the pot and cartoon sharpy tattoos. He was a "nice guy" in quotes only.

Sonia would have done better with Tres who at least seemed genuine. Don't think that would have been a match that lasted either since Tres likes to date white girls.

Hopefully Sonia gains confidence and moves on.

Hopefully Nick stops being such a closed off arsehole.

I didn't think David was dough but if that was the case then the same could have been said for Tres. They seemed similar in body shapes. As well as I do not see Derek and him being anything alike either. I wouldn't put someone like Sonia with a person like Tres. Tres wasn't into the show or genuine at all. He was a player that got talked into doing the show somehow and wasn't looking for marriage at all. He got what he wanted out of things and moved on. Sonia needs a guy with a more kind and caring personality that is similar to her's. Someone that will show he cares and likes to be touchy/feely like. 

4 minutes ago, RocketGirl said:

Cilona is gone so we don't know whether they're still using his "instruments".  I don't know whether that means this season should be better or worse.

To me its seems they are using the same scripts from the past seasons with all that ends up said most the time. No matter how they are doing this, it doesn't work and I doubt they care because its tv drama they are after sadly. 

[RocketGirl]

9 minutes ago, Evil Queen said:

The thing that starts to blur it all though is the act he puts on for the "experts" as they come by and he claims the marriage is an 8 or its all fine or whatever he wants to say to act like its all good.

Maybe he's hoping the "experts" will leave him alone!  If he gave the marriage a lower rating, they'd ask him for a reason why, and for whatever reason, he doesn't want to give one.  

[Passthepopcorn]

3 hours ago, Neurochick said:

Question:  If it turns out that Nick is gay, could Sonia sue the producers?  Could the producers sue Nick for fraud? 

I'm asking because I assume that the participants present themselves as heterosexual and this is a show about heterosexual marriage.  Would that be fraud if you said you presented as heterosexual, knowing you weren't?

I think that could be grounds for annulment.

[Adeejay]

3 hours ago, izabella said:

I would not be at all surprised if Sonia just isn't his physical type and personality type and that's that. 

I mentioned to my husband that perhaps Nick is gay; he responded that maybe he just isn't into Latinas and is too polite to come right out and say it.  I hadn't thought of that. 

[lazylou]

3 hours ago, izabella said:

I agree and think he's "just not that into her." 

 

The experts maybe do not have a large enough pool of applicants to consider such details as common interests; ethnic, religious, political leanings; career synchronicity, geographic needs (think Jaclyn and Ryan here,) ambition, love of animals and/or children, education, and so on.  In short, absolutely nothing that might actually be important in arranging a marriage seems to be considered.  What is, I wonder? 

[SaucyMommy]

5 minutes ago, lazylou said:

The experts maybe do not have a large enough pool of applicants to consider such details as common interests; ethnic, religious, political leanings; career synchronicity, geographic needs (think Jaclyn and Ryan here,) ambition, love of animals and/or children, education, and so on.  In short, absolutely nothing that might actually be important in arranging a marriage seems to be considered.  What is, I wonder? 

Whether they look sexy together. IE Ryan and Jessica lol

[Passthepopcorn]

2 hours ago, Vinyasa said:

After last night, I am kinda, sorta, maybe thinking Sonia would have been good matched with David.

Seems like she would appreciate a guy like him and he would be attracted to her in time.

Thoughts??

Agree. I said that before. It would have been perfect, except for location. Location is a biggie.

[psychoticstate]

42 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

Well that's a good point.  If it turns out that Nick is gay, why should he and Sonia have to get a divorce?  If Nick is gay then he misrepresented himself as a straight male, which means that Sonia got duped on national TV.   I feel she's entitled to some kind of compensation. 

However, if it turns out that Nick just isn't attracted to her, at all then there's no compensation for that.

I would think any of these couples could get their marriages annulled if they were never consummated and didn't live together as husband and wife.  That said, I would certainly think if it did turn out that Nick was gay that would constitute fraud.  And an annulment. 

 

I wish that Heather would have asked PC exactly why she was matched with Derek.  I would want to know if I was in her shoes.  Maybe it could have changed her outlook, maybe not.  Unless the scene was cut and/or heavily edited, it doesn't appear that PC told her WHY they believed she and Derek would be a good match.

[Empress1]

16 minutes ago, Evil Queen said:

I didn't think David was dough but if that was the case then the same could have been said for Tres. They seemed similar in body shapes. As well as I do not see Derek and him being anything alike either. I wouldn't put someone like Sonia with a person like Tres. Tres wasn't into the show or genuine at all. He was a player that got talked into doing the show somehow and wasn't looking for marriage at all. He got what he wanted out of things and moved on. Sonia needs a guy with a more kind and caring personality that is similar to her's. Someone that will show he cares and likes to be touchy/feely like. 

Definitely wouldn't put Sonia with Tres. He's too young for her - not just in actual age but in maturity. Tres was a good five years away from being husband material.

4 minutes ago, Adeejay said:

I mentioned to my husband that perhaps Nick is gay; he responded that maybe he just isn't into Latinas and is too polite to come right out and say it.  I hadn't thought of that. 

Of course we have no idea what he said on the background info (I would love to see what questions they're asked), but if I recall correctly, OKCupid did one of their studies and found that while most people say they're open to dating other races in order to sound open-minded, the number that actually practices what they preach is small. It doesn't look great to be like "I don't date people of x race" (although in my experience online dating, people don't shy away from saying they don't date black women. My gay male friends say it's worse in that community). Nick does seem pretty appreciative of Sonia's culture though - she was teaching him Spanish, and I watched a few minutes of the episode before and there was a cute scene where they were talking about how you'd go about creating a Latin-inspired meatball that I thought was funny. 

I don't really think there's any big nefarious reason behind Nick's actions. I just think Sonia doesn't do it for him. Which just goes to show, everything ain't for everybody. I'm thinking of the straight men I know and most of them would think Sonia is attractive. My brother would be drooling over her. 

[Passthepopcorn]

Thumbs up for Tom in this episode. He didn't hesitate or panic and went straight into comforting nurturing mode. It was nice to see. Awesome.

[candall]

5 hours ago, cakes1975 said:

What woman is going to have sex in a public pool bathroom? . . .*raises hand*  and I know that I'm not the only one.

Right here, sister.  University library, third stack.  High five.

And here's my "dating a gay guy" story:  So handsome and charming, but strangely detached, considering how passionate he was about getting me cross-country to meet the fams.  FAIL!  Mom was not okay with dating outside the faith.  His next girlfriend was different faith, different race.  Finally, the big reveal.  No word on whether Mom survived the shock and I never knew whether I was part of a long-con or just part of the internal process.

5 hours ago, Neurochick said:

Question, if Nick is gay then why do this show?

 I have no idea whether Nick's gay, but if he is, he'd only be about the ten billionth man to decide marrying a woman would settle everything once and for all.

[Passthepopcorn]

I don't know with Nick... I also still consider him straight. He is not shy, but very very introverted. Introverts get incredibly misjudged and misunderstood. Have you read the book "Quiet"? I'm not trying to justify his lack of communication. He can't expect people to guess what's going on with him. It is not fair. But for some people it really takes time to open up. If the case is really lack of physical attraction, then introverted or extroverted, there isn't much you can do. Unless he falls for her personality and then the rest starts blooming. Is that what he is hoping for?

[Empress1]

12 minutes ago, candall said:

Right here, sister.  University library, third stack.  High five.

Get it! My friend lost his virginity (to a girl - not sure if she was a virgin, but he definitely was) in the stacks.

[candall]

9 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

Get it! My friend lost his virginity (to a girl - not sure if she was a virgin, but he definitely was) in the stacks.

You know Dave??

 

[j/k]

[watch2much]

I, too, thought Lilly must have received horrible news (unable to have child, cancer) and gave a huge "big deal" to shoulder surgery.  And for all who say being afraid of surgery can happen I would remind you she had  supposedly been in MEDICAL SCHOOL, so surely should know on the scale of surgeries this is not life threatening.  I live in a retirement community--everyone here has shoulder, knee, hip surgeries with less drama than a healthy, young woman.

I still support Heather all the way.  I think she saw some really frightening aspects to Derek that made it impossible for her to continue.  She recognized he might be a nice guy, but not someone for her not matter how much they worked on it.  And, after seeing his apartment--good grief.  As others have said, I think that at 32 she had hoped to meet another person her age who was mature and wanted similar things in life.  Instead she got comic book arms, weed smoking, and backward ball caps.  I do give Derek points for the dog.  

Speaking of dogs, where did all the dogs come from at Tom and Lilly's ?  We were only introduced to Zeus.  There was a cute peke dog and another that looked like a beagle.  

[humbleopinion]

You remember incorrectly, it was Dan that was deflowered in the undergrad stacks.

If I had a dollar for every time he retells us that story...

Edited September 14, 2016 by humbleopinion