S04.E06: For Richer Or Poorer

[Nowhere]

^^ Well they sure as hell don't care to hide it anymore. Isn't that the beginning of its downfall? More and more "reality" shows are completely scripted. When the THs are nothing but terrible acting, you know it's a problem. It's evident on shows like Little Women, Bring it!, Love and Hip Hop, Gypsy Wedding, etc. I try to avoid the ones with terrible acting but I still get sucked in occasionally. 

Married at First Sight still appears genuine. How much longer can they keep it genuine though if they outwardly allow the cast to advertise? Every Tom, Dick, and Harry who owns a business will want to participate. I guess that's one way to get more applicants but next they'll have to do scripted interviews because the cast won't even know how to pretend they're interested. 

[jmonkey]

For me this season is resembling Season 2 in which the women (Jaclyn, Jessica, and Davina) got royally screwed by the "experts." Maybe the guys aren't as bad as Ryan "Restraining Order" De Nino, Ryan "Momma's Boy" R., and Smarmy Sean, but I think Sonia, Heather, and Lilly are getting the shaft this season. I think Sonia is gorgeous and sweet. She is like my dream girl, and it frustrates me to see her with someone like Nick who has shown much more interest in making out with his dogs than he has into getting to know Sonia. He clearly is on the show to promote his business and may not even be into women at all if my gaydar is correct. 

I think Sonia deserves somebody who will be more into her or, at least, be able to express his appreciation for her. Hopefully Nick comes around because I think, other than the massive debt, she's quite a catch. I think it sucks the experts paired her with an emotionally unavailable person who will only magnify her insecurities by not communicating his feelings effectively. It seems that whenever he does open up that he offends Sonia to the point of tears, so maybe it's better if he doesn't talk. But, still, Sonia needs some freaking validation and Nick isn't giving her much of anything other than a front row seat for his doggy makeout sessions. Maybe he is trying in his own way, but it's not in the way that Sonia needs.

Obviously Derek was a major mismatch for Heather. It has to be a mind trip for her that the experts picked Derek as her ideal match. What does that say about her that she would be paired with a whiny bitch baby like Derek? Heather is such an ice queen, BUT there's definitely something that went down during the honeymoon that has been widely speculated on this forum (i.e. smoking weed, inappropriate sexual advances). Nobody knows for sure what went down, but something happened that made Heather shut down and it's something she's too uncomfortable to talk about on camera. She was cautious from the beginning, but not as frigid as she became during the honeymoon. We did see how Derek behaved when he felt slighted by Heather and that was even uglier than his tattoos. No woman wants to be with a guy like that. If someone acts like that during the honeymoon phase, imagine what real life is going to be like with him. Things will only get worse.

Pastor Calvin seemed to be putting a lot of the blame on Heather, but I think she has taken the high road so far and shouldn't have to feel coerced to try and make something work with someone she clearly doesn't like. Yes, Heather is judgmental, but I think Derek has been 10 times worse so far with his drama king overactions, and he crossed the line somewhere in Heather's book. Their marriage is irreparable and it's all about making it through the 6 weeks at this point. I seriously can't see how the experts can justify this match, but they will spend the rest of the season trying. I wish an apology or an admission of a mismatch from the experts would occur.

Tom and Lillian are a good match so far, but I believe Tom will eventually retreat to the simple life of his bus and it will blindside Lilly and hit her like a ton of bricks. Their relationship is hot and passionate right now, but I think it will burn out like what happened to Jaclyn in Season 2 and to Vanessa in Season 3. There's something off-putting about Tom that I can't put my finger on just yet that will be revealed later. I do hope I'm wrong though. This show could use some more success stories.

Last season I thought the guys (Neil, David, and Tres) were getting a raw deal with the partners selected for them, but this year it seems to be the women's turn to get saddled with crappy husbands. BTW, as a male, I'd just like to say I find the women this season to be very attractive. They're not as hot as the women on Season 2, but they're beautiful women.

Edited September 4, 2016 by jmonkey

[Nowhere]

Last season I did feel bad for Neal when he had to put up with Sam at first but she did change and started to fall in love with him. I think he led her on and by the end I thought he was the asshole. I wasn't sure why he thought he was such a prize when Sam had worked hard to make it up to him, and he's probably the only cast member who was way below average looks wise. She tried really hard at the end and he acted like it was going well and then blindsided her. Maybe he just wanted to grow his creepy long disgusting beard back.

So yeah it started off not so good between Sam and Neal but it got better just like it was supposed to do.

David got fucked over.

Tres though? Seriously he had a good wife but he was in love with that female "friend" of his. Vanessa was a good woman and wife to him. I don't see how Tre got a raw deal by any stretch of the imagination.

I agree about the women this season. I think the experts consulted magic 8 ball when making their decisions this time. They got lazy.

[Drogo]

This season... this episode.  Let's bring it back. 

[humbleopinion]

Santa and the Easter Bunny are real.

Beginning to have my doubts about M@FS...

Maybe next week's episode will convince me otherwise.

[Evil Queen]

6 hours ago, Vinyasa said:

This show doesn't need to turn into a giant infomercial.   Nick should not be allowed to wear those Section 8 shirts endlessly.

6 hours ago, Nowhere said:

I don't think it's wrong in general either but I think it makes it seem like he signed up for the wrong reasons. Even though the network is making money off of him and he's getting a salary, there still should be that illusion that all of these people really just want to be married and find love. When I see constant advertisement for his businesses, it makes me question that. I don't think that's the kind of impression we're supposed to be getting. The whole point is that the audience thinks this is a real experiment with real experts and real people looking for the love of their lives. IMO anybody who goes on a reality show of any kind is looking for money, fame, or promotion of some kind of business. You're not going to find real love on a reality show. Or I should say it's extremely rare. But don't shove in our faces the fact that you signed up to get rich. It takes away the believability of this being the real thing. 

For example, I just thought of this, we all know Lily is a real estate agent in Miami. She said it. We all heard. If I want to buy a house in Miami I'd remember and I can look her up. But if in every fucking episode she was wearing a t-shirt about it, I'd know what her real motivation was. And guess what, I probably won't call her to sell me a house because I'd find her disingenuous. I don't see anyone else doing as much advertising as Nick. Matter of fact, I haven't seen any advertising by any of the other participants.

This is the thing. It starts to feel more like he is there to push the businesses he has and nothing more. Which in turn it starts to feel like an infomercial. I don't want to see that. The mentioning of how we never hear where Lily works reminds me of when I was watching the last season of Arrange. There was the pathetic couple from Newport Beach, CA and all they did was mention businesses they both had and the names. That was all they gave a crap about and were pushing it. They both worked real estate and she had some clothing store as well. I ended up FF when they were on because it just became to much with their BS and everything being about their jobs and name dropping the company/store. Its what Nick has done with the shirts and every time he reminds us he has rentals. IF they were "living" in one of his rentals for the show it would be wrong. It would be another way to push his businesses. Its not what to see when watching the show. Its bad enough sitting through his blah self but when you throw that into the mix. UGH While sure the show makes money by having them on it, he is making something from them as well money wise for being on it too. The free advertising is not something that should be happening at all. I know the others don't seem to be doing this. Of course most don't seem to have the business to push usually though. Didn't they blur out the labels of Jacklyn's stuff? Which I felt she tried to push but it wasn't as bad as Nick has been though. 

[Snarklepuss]

Someone said upthread that they felt Tom and Lillian were being disingenuous with each other and I agree with that.  At first I thought Lilly was being used but now I'm wondering if they aren't being that way with each other in some way and to some degree.  Lily has been very accommodating with Tom (except for the dirty feet) but I wonder if she's holding back on some things just because the sex is good.  I don't believe they are SO on the same page about everything other than sex.  I interpret some of Lilly's going on about that as somewhat disingenuous because she's really seeing him through rose colored glasses at this point.  She's really not that into Tom except for the sex and is just having fun in the moment but she goes on about how "wonderful" everything is because the sex is blinding her  to Tom's faults because she's young and over-optimistic and mistakenly thinks that everything can be worked out.  She's making a lot of assumptions if so.  I just worry that one day when the bloom is off the rose these two won't be so happy anymore and it will devolve into nothing but arguments.  I think the foot washing thing will multiply itself 20 fold eventually and it will eventually annoy Tom, who won't be as accommodating after a while.  I think Lilly will think she can change Tom to suit her and he won't be so accommodating with her about it.  Right now he thinks she is on board with everything about him and he's happy but just wait until she "wakes up" and starts nit picking and disagreeing with him.

[Liberty]

3 hours ago, Evil Queen said:

 IF they were "living" in one of his rentals for the show it would be wrong.....The free advertising is not something that should be happening at all. I know the others don't seem to be doing this. Of course most don't seem to have the business to push usually though. Didn't they blur out the labels of Jacklyn's stuff? Which I felt she tried to push but it wasn't as bad as Nick has been though. 

The way they block and blur some product logos and names offers up the concept that unblocked items have paid a fee for the promotion.  They did blur the Tito's bottles that were left around Jaclyn & Basement Ryan's Queens rental.  Was it season 3 that a link between poser Pepper and the realtor representing the apartment David & Stashley rented for 6 weeks had some sort of connection?  Was the realtor recognized from some other home improvement reality show?

So Derek wears a trucker cap and the logo is covered with tape, and Nick/Sonia promote his "philosophy of life".  Some restaurants get their name blurred, others get promoted.  No airline names get mentioned.  An enterprise must pay to play on FYI.

[Snarklepuss]

I know this is really from nowhere and not of any real consequence, but the shower curtain Nick has in his bathroom is the same one I have in both of mine.  It's from Target, LOL. 

[okerry]

22 hours ago, watch2much said:

I remember Heather's reply to Derek saying he didn't have a passport.  She said "well you're going to have to get one" referring to her travel perks, I assume.  So she, at that point, was trying.  His saying they "didn't even cuddle" the first night might be a clue.  Cuddling in bed with someone you only met a few hours ago seems weird.  I wouldn't want to do it. Leads me to believe advances were made and words were said, on top of the weed issue, and maybe why he felt the need to smoke the next morning.  Derek never considered she needed time to become affectionate.  He seemed to think the marriage vow meant it was full speed ahead physically and he took her reticence as rejection.

Yup. I think something like that happened, too. This is about way more than smoking *anything.* He's probably used to hookups and now he's married to one, so probably honestly thought, "why not?"

Would love to know the truth!

[okerry]

21 hours ago, jamblastx said:

On more than a few occasions he acted as if because they were now married that somehow got him a FastPass* to her vag.

*FastPass is a trademark of the Disney Corporation and can only be used on certain popular Disney attractions and not for coitus with your 'wife'

LOLOL I think you're right about Derek think he now had a FastPass!

I wish the "experts" would give these couples some sex advice before the wedding. As in, "Just because you're legally married does *not* mean you should have sex right away. That's fine for one-night stands where you don't even expect to see that person again, but if you want a long-time relationship with them and are, like *married* to them, you'd better wait at least a few days and set it up properly first."

Jack Sampson not withstanding, women do want some courtship. Why do you think the vast majority are drunk during one-night stands? That's because alcohol takes the place of courtship. Women absolutely want and need courtship in a marriage. The only real success in this show, Jason & Cortney, did wait at least a little while and got to know each other first. From what we saw, he seemed to let her know he was very attracted to her but was still a gentleman.

That's courtship. That's how it's done, guys. Don't be like Derek (if that's really what happened) unless you want to wake to nothing more than a cig (of any kind.)

[Nowhere]

I still don't know why Heather has been called a party girl who's had frequent one night stands. Was something said or done on the show that gave that impression? 

Edited September 4, 2016 by Nowhere

[watch2much]

do we know what Tom's debt is from?  I also agree that there's no way he should have any debt.  I guess it could be college loans he keeps deferring payment on.  A truly non-materialistic person would want to be debt free as soon as possible.

[Neurochick]

10 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

Someone said upthread that they felt Tom and Lillian were being disingenuous with each other and I agree with that.  At first I thought Lilly was being used but now I'm wondering if they aren't being that way with each other in some way and to some degree.  Lily has been very accommodating with Tom (except for the dirty feet) but I wonder if she's holding back on some things just because the sex is good.  I don't believe they are SO on the same page about everything other than sex.  I interpret some of Lilly's going on about that as somewhat disingenuous because she's really seeing him through rose colored glasses at this point.  She's really not that into Tom except for the sex and is just having fun in the moment but she goes on about how "wonderful" everything is because the sex is blinding her  to Tom's faults because she's young and over-optimistic and mistakenly thinks that everything can be worked out.  She's making a lot of assumptions if so.  I just worry that one day when the bloom is off the rose these two won't be so happy anymore and it will devolve into nothing but arguments.  I think the foot washing thing will multiply itself 20 fold eventually and it will eventually annoy Tom, who won't be as accommodating after a while.  I think Lilly will think she can change Tom to suit her and he won't be so accommodating with her about it.  Right now he thinks she is on board with everything about him and he's happy but just wait until she "wakes up" and starts nit picking and disagreeing with him.

I think this is true of Tom and Lilly, it's what happens in real life.  People meet, are sexually attracted to each other, and go on like that for months maybe, until real life catches up with them; I mean you can't spend your whole life in bed.  

Everybody has faults, there is no such thing as the perfect person.  The idea is, that when two people have sex, they know that the other person isn't perfect, that way sex doesn't cloud your judgement.  I think I read somewhere when women have sex, we bond with the other person, maybe that happens to some men to.  So maybe when Lilly slept with Tom, she bonded with him, she's into him, she may be blind to his flaws, but you can only be blind for so long.  

[Paddywagon]

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

I think this is true of Tom and Lilly, it's what happens in real life.  People meet, are sexually attracted to each other, and go on like that for months maybe, until real life catches up with them; I mean you can't spend your whole life in bed.  

Everybody has faults, there is no such thing as the perfect person.  The idea is, that when two people have sex, they know that the other person isn't perfect, that way sex doesn't cloud your judgement.  I think I read somewhere when women have sex, we bond with the other person, maybe that happens to some men to.  So maybe when Lilly slept with Tom, she bonded with him, she's into him, she may be blind to his flaws, but you can only be blind for so long.  

It would be pretty awesome to have Tom and Lily do the MAFS First Year show. I'd sit back with my popcorn and watch for the day Lily takes off those rose colored glasses, haha!

[Evil Queen]

8 hours ago, Liberty said:

The way they block and blur some product logos and names offers up the concept that unblocked items have paid a fee for the promotion.  They did blur the Tito's bottles that were left around Jaclyn & Basement Ryan's Queens rental.  Was it season 3 that a link between poser Pepper and the realtor representing the apartment David & Stashley rented for 6 weeks had some sort of connection?  Was the realtor recognized from some other home improvement reality show?

So Derek wears a trucker cap and the logo is covered with tape, and Nick/Sonia promote his "philosophy of life".  Some restaurants get their name blurred, others get promoted.  No airline names get mentioned.  An enterprise must pay to play on FYI.

That is right...throw in Pepper and her buddy there too. Which was wrong as well. 

1 hour ago, Nowhere said:

I still don't know why Heather has been called a party girl who's had frequent one night stands. Was something said or done on the show that gave that impression? 

Its what some are just assuming. There is no proof that is what she was ever. 

[1992austenlover]

On 8/31/2016 at 1:15 AM, krbr51 said:

Hi, I'm new here, but my take is a little different at the moment... 

I see Heather/Derek as more similar to Crazy Pants/Long Beard from last season (what were their names again?).  During Heather and Derek's argument, I thought he fought really dirty.  He kept attacking her as a person and storming off.  It reminded me of Sam (!!) attacking Neil last season on their honeymoom.  Maybe Heather is giving up, but Neil didn't give up.   But at the end, Neil realized Sam did too much damage to overcome.  Heather may just be realizing that a bit sooner.   Heather is not particularly warm, or overly friendly,  but I still think she is miles ahead of Ashley.  

I agree with this. :)

On 8/31/2016 at 1:15 AM, krbr51 said:

Also, I love Sonia.  I really hope they make it.

And I kinda hope that Lily and Tom "get real" soon.  It can't really be that perfect.  He isn't going to wash his feet before bed forever....  

In regards to Sonia and Nick, I'm so conflicted about these two. I mean, I can understand and respect the fact that he wants to take things slow but I'm failing to see any sort of real romantic chemistry between them at the moment despite the fact that they are allegedly attracted to each other and the more I see of them, the more I'm concerned that they are simply going to stay in the friend zone or won't be able to connect on a deep enough level by the end of the experiment. They are cute and friendly and quirky at times but they also seem a little disconnected and awkward, which may or may not have to do with their reactions to the unorthodox position that they are in. Obviously, it's early days and I could be happily eating my words in a couple of weeks but right now I'm pretty skeptical about this couple. Nick, especially, worries me...I mean, he seems like a nice guy but if I were Sonia, I would be a little insecure about my position in the relationship too and I would be little annoyed by the insensitive things that he occasionally says from time to time (I mean, watching the preview and seeing Nick say that he's not in love with Sonia to her face--yeah, I could not stop cringing). But I do hope that they work it out. 

And yeah, I'm also worried for Lily and Tom for the same reason as you are. Though I would like to believe that they are the second coming of Jason and Courtney, I do think that Tom's very rigid view on people/the world (such as the materialistic thing) might grate on Lily once the honeymoon period is over. I hope not as I actually enjoy watching them; so far they are genuinely adorable. 

[Jack Sampson]

3 hours ago, okerry said:

Jack Sampson not withstanding, women do want some courtship. Why do you think the vast majority are drunk during one-night stands? That's because alcohol takes the place of courtship. Women absolutely want and need courtship in a marriage. The only real success in this show, Jason & Cortney, did wait at least a little while and got to know each other first. From what we saw, he seemed to let her know he was very attracted to her but was still a gentleman.

That's courtship. That's how it's done, guys. Don't be like Derek (if that's really what happened) unless you want to wake to nothing more than a cig (of any kind.)

They had sex on day 3 or 4 (depending on how the editing worked).  I'm all for following the 3 date rule.  But I wouldn't tolerate a sexless honeymoon, I'd file the day I got home.  Or I'd at least explain that, if she wanted to take things slowly, we won't be living together and I'll be seeing other women until she makes up her mind.

I'd (jokingly so I got a real answer) ask her about one night stands and the quickest she's gone from meeting a man to having sex.  Then I wouldn't wait longer than that answer.

[silverspoons]

It seems like all couples should not have any big financial problems. Tom and Lily making $120-130k a year combined and neither seemed want a grand lifestyle right away. Lily might not really love the bus but her apartment was not some high end or even nicely decorated unit. She obviously lived within her means as far as housing cost went. She did say she leased a nice car to drive clients in but that is a tax write off and I'm sure it isn't going to break the bank.

Sonia and Nick making again about 120k a year should be fine. He owns property and has long term goals. I'm confused about social working salaries. They are not all low. She chooses to work for a non profit, which is admirable. She seems to enjoy her work. A supportive spouse would be happy that she had a job she was passionate about. I live where the wages are some of the lowest in the country but LCSW or MSW make high wages here if you work for the hospitals , recovery clinics, youth centers or private practice. Insurance almost always pushes for a LCSW over a PHd these days. My son was recently dx with a serious illness and I took him to a LCSW and it was $215 an hr (and I live in the rural desert not a big city). My husband helped a friend who is a social worker put up a playset for his kids. He works at a youth treatment center and makes 6 figures. Social working degree can be used in many ways. Again I admire those that do the tough work for lower wages, I hope that Nick can accept this and is not about the bottom line and his long term early retirement. I have 2 graduate degrees and after an illness I have just done volunteer work because I saw a huge need in our community. I used to make more money then my husband and now I make nothing but my husband fully supports my work with those that are in need and have nothing.

 

I really think the dogs and smoking are more deal breakers then money or jobs or housing.

Were those rents like temporary rental rates? or places that allow filming?  Is that all you really get for $3200 a month? I would sure decide quick if I was going to stay married or not if the rents are that high and look into buying. I know several people that live in Miami but they own homes that are much nicer and have much lower payments.

[Drogo]

I don't think Nick's issues with Sonia have anything to do with her appearance.  I agree @Snarklepuss that he doesn't know how he feels about her yet, which is causing his reticence and lack of affection.  

Nick's got two dogs who have been his companions for years.  When he's come home from work, they've been the welcoming committee.  When he's had a bad day, they're the ones who have encouraged him to kick back and relax.  As someone who has kids and dogs, I don't subscribe to the dogs=kids belief some have, but I sure did before I had kids.  

Somebody wasn't giving 100% honesty on their "thousand question interview" - and I doubt Nick "forgot" to mention his two dogs.  I imagine dislikes/phobias get a piece of real estate in the questionnaire.  

[BunnySlippers]

8 hours ago, Nowhere said:

I still don't know why Heather has been called a party girl who's had frequent one night stands. Was something said or done on the show that gave that impression? 

The one night stand thing was one person's speculation without any proof or anybody on the show mentioning anything like that, just because she has some history with drinking.

[answerphone]

If Tom is in debt while living in that bus, I'd guess he was forced to switch to a more minimal type of life.

Quite possibly, he's made foolish choices financially and now he's in a hole.

[zxy556575]

I wonder if we'll ever get to see Derek and Heather have their discussion about finances? My purely speculative guess is that Heather makes more and that the talk would end in an argument. ;)

4 hours ago, silverspoons said:

Were those rents like temporary rental rates? or places that allow filming?  Is that all you really get for $3200 a month?

The houses were apparently turnkey furnished, so they seem like vacation rentals at those prices. Those are pretty common here in Florida because of seasonal residents. Or Airbnb places, as has been mentioned.

[holly4755]

60K is not a lot in NJ but I know people who live on that money and trailer park spaces can be costly near the water, well mine was almost 10K a year and that was several years ago.  

Running businesses there are two kinds of expenses - training for your self and purchasing and keeping tools, inventory, buildings, etc.  Either or both could cause someone to go into debt if they were running their own businesses. 

[Jack Sampson]

22 minutes ago, holly4755 said:

60K is not a lot in NJ but I know people who live on that money and trailer park spaces can be costly near the water, well mine was almost 10K a year and that was several years ago.  

Running businesses there are two kinds of expenses - training for your self and purchasing and keeping tools, inventory, buildings, etc.  Either or both could cause someone to go into debt if they were running their own businesses. 

Plus, that bus wasn't cheap.  10-15 year old used coaches can go for $200-300k.  Does anyone know the specs on his?

Edited September 5, 2016 by Jack Sampson

[Evil Queen]

5 hours ago, silverspoons said:

Were those rents like temporary rental rates? or places that allow filming?  Is that all you really get for $3200 a month? I would sure decide quick if I was going to stay married or not if the rents are that high and look into buying. I know several people that live in Miami but they own homes that are much nicer and have much lower payments.

Where I am in California houses can rent for that, more and a bit under. Depends on location and then size. Those houses are not furnished either btw. Being in a beach city, the closer to the beach the more it will be for that rental...even if its small size. So doesn't surprise me on cost considering location and being furnished. Here you are not allowed to do vacation rentals so the ones are for living in for longer periods of time. 

[Snarklepuss]

56 minutes ago, Jack Sampson said:

Plus, that bus wasn't cheap.  10-15 year old used coaches can go for $200-300k.  Does anyone know the specs on his?

That old POS he has was probably in dire need of repair and renovation when he got it and it still doesn't look that great.  I doubt it was worth anywhere near $100,000 when he bought it.  I see beautiful 15-20 year old newly renovated motor home coaches for sale online for $100,000 -200,000.

Edited September 5, 2016 by Snarklepuss
redundant word.

[Paddywagon]

I was thinking about how similar Lily and Heather are.  No, really, stay with me here. They're both rather rigid in how they do things.   Heather with her unpacking, Lily with her color-sorted closet; Lily with the feet washing, Heather with her neatness.  And yet the reaction from their partners couldn't be more different. I wonder if their guys were switched if Lily would come across as bitchy and Heather as having cute habits.  Tom is more cooperative with Lily's habits and Derek fights Heather over everything.  Like would Derek whine if Lily asked him to wash his feet? It would be interesting to see how the dynamic might change, if at all.

Edited September 5, 2016 by Paddywagon

[love2lovebadtv]

On 8/30/2016 at 2:34 PM, andromeda331 said:

I really don't either. And I know I'm repeating myself but Maura's changes make sense. Writing, going to Paris for a month that makes sense for Maura. Jane quitting the force to and moving to DC to be an FBI instructor? Makes zero sense. Again Jan Nash, why would Jane want to do that? All she wants to do is be a cop in Boston. Realizing that's all she wants to do and is happy with would make sense. Jane and Maura remaining in Boston doing their jobs as best friends make sense. Realizing their in love with each other makes sense. FBI instructor in DC doesn't. Also, I never really got the idea Korsk wanted to retire too. He always seemed ike he wanted to be cop out doing his job as long as he could too.

I do have to commend Frankie for not laughing after Angela said she didn't like to pry. 

 

On 9/2/2016 at 1:13 AM, Matias130 said:

Thank you for clarifying, however I should have specifically referred to grad/professional programs school. I come form an economically disadvantaged home and went through community college then a 4 year uni and didnt pay a dime due to a scholarship. I took loans for pharmacy school. For grad school I do not think anyone qualifies for federal financial aid from the FAFSA, they can only get federal/private loans, or sometimes a small grant from the school. Its been a couple years though so who knows

I understand. In your case,  the student loans were a means to a career that will pay for itself. 

I don't think anyone on this show (except maybe Sonia) has a career that would warrant student loans.  I know Sonia doesn't earn a whole lot but if she holds the MSW degree,  then she has some options that are available to he,  some of which can be done in addition to her day job like counseling, early intervention, bilingual school social worker,  etc.  Nick actually has quite a bit of student debt. I'm not surprised that lilly doesn't have.  She sounds like she's been supporting herself and I also don't think she finished college.  She's only 24. How many things can she have done by that age? On another note, does anyone else think maybe she's older than 24? It's not just one thing that leads me to suspect that,  but rather a combination of things I'm noticing about her. 

[Lily247]

1 hour ago, love2lovebadtv said:

 

I understand. In your case,  the student loans were a means to a career that will pay for itself. 

I don't think anyone on this show (except maybe Sonia) has a career that would warrant student loans.  I know Sonia doesn't earn a whole lot but if she holds the MSW degree,  then she has some options that are available to he,  some of which can be done in addition to her day job like counseling, early intervention, bilingual school social worker,  etc.  Nick actually has quite a bit of student debt. I'm not surprised that lilly doesn't have.  She sounds like she's been supporting herself and I also don't think she finished college.  She's only 24. How many things can she have done by that age? On another note, does anyone else think maybe she's older than 24? It's not just one thing that leads me to suspect that,  but rather a combination of things I'm noticing about her. 

Thanks, love2lovebadtv. I dont know much about other education options out there so thanks for explaining how it works with PhD. I also suspected that Lily is older than 24, mainly bc she looks older. But she definitely dresses much older than 24, even for professional attire. Did you notice other things ?

[Lily247]

2 hours ago, Paddywagon said:

I was thinking about how similar Lily and Heather are.  No, really, stay with me here. They're both rather rigid in how they do things.   Heather with her unpacking, Lily with her color-sorted closet; Lily with the feet washing, Heather with her neatness.  And yet the reaction from their partners couldn't be more different. I wonder if their guys were switched if Lily would come across as bitchy and Heather as having cute habits.  Tom is more cooperative with Lily's habits and Derek fights Heather over everything.  Like would Derek whine if Lily asked him to wash his feet? It would be interesting to see how the dynamic might change, if at all.

I think the main difference is, Lily is affectionate physically and emotionally and Heather is not. Plus I think any guy would wash their feet to be able to jump into bed with a woman they are sexually attracted to. 

[Drogo]

7 hours ago, Paddywagon said:

I was thinking about how similar Lily and Heather are.  No, really, stay with me here. They're both rather rigid in how they do things.   Heather with her unpacking, Lily with her color-sorted closet; Lily with the feet washing, Heather with her neatness.  And yet the reaction from their partners couldn't be more different. I wonder if their guys were switched if Lily would come across as bitchy and Heather as having cute habits.  Tom is more cooperative with Lily's habits and Derek fights Heather over everything.  Like would Derek whine if Lily asked him to wash his feet? It would be interesting to see how the dynamic might change, if at all.

I agree. I think the major differencebetween the two is that Lilly understands a basic truth about humanity:

People don't change, but their behaviors can. 

Lilly has faith that the person she was matched with is a good person, and that she's free to ask him to modify any behavior she doesn't like. Behavior modification being most effective when paired with a reward, she's basically a genius by saying "Wash your feet if you want to get laid." 

[LennieBriscoe]

The feet, the bus (moving out notwithstanding), the day-labor jobs, the surfing passion: NOTHING about Tom makes him a suitable spouse for an up-and-coming career woman, in Miami no less. A boyfriend, sure, what the heck.

Nick's dogs. I don't care if Sonia became phobic just from seeing the Met-Life Snoopy blimp; it is her fear, and she is entitled to it. Similarly, Nick is entitled to his dogs. Now, is Nick thus suitable for Sonia, if he places his dogs above her fear? I don't think so. He needs a dog-lover. That is not to say one type of person is superior.

Heather might want a sophisticated man (or even a grown-up one), but she might need then to up her own game in that regard and forget about "Chug! Chug!"

[humbleopinion]

If Derek knew he was gonna get laid then he would wash his stanky feet.

Derek would have done ANYTHING to get some lovin' on his honeymoon.

[Empress1]

9 hours ago, love2lovebadtv said:

I understand. In your case,  the student loans were a means to a career that will pay for itself. 

I don't think anyone on this show (except maybe Sonia) has a career that would warrant student loans.  I know Sonia doesn't earn a whole lot but if she holds the MSW degree,  then she has some options that are available to he,  some of which can be done in addition to her day job like counseling, early intervention, bilingual school social worker,  etc.  Nick actually has quite a bit of student debt. I'm not surprised that lilly doesn't have.  She sounds like she's been supporting herself and I also don't think she finished college.  She's only 24. How many things can she have done by that age? On another note, does anyone else think maybe she's older than 24? It's not just one thing that leads me to suspect that,  but rather a combination of things I'm noticing about her. 

I'm guessing Sonia has an MSW (it's my understanding that you need one to advance in social work), but honestly, a lot of people incur student loan debt getting a bachelor's, which is a requirement for many entry-level white collar jobs. I've worked places that won't hire a receptionist without a degree (which is bullshit, IMO). Nick can't have been doing Airbnb for his whole career; he's 32 and it hasn't been around long. I assume he has a BA/BS in whatever and his loans are from that. When I hear that people in a certain age bracket DON'T have student loans, I'm surprised. College is expensive as fuck. The national student loan debt is over a trillion dollars and growing all the time. Somebody's borrowing that money. (No shade; as I said I and nearly everyone I know borrowed money for their education. I know more people on the higher outlier side of things. I think I've mentioned my best friend and her husband, who owe over a quarter mil from two law degrees and his undergrad and while she does well financially, he does not - he was laid off in the recession and things never quite recovered.)

$18-$20K in student debt doesn't sound like a lot to me at all. If Nick has $20K in student loans and is making $80K a year, he's doing fine. Sonia's $25K doesn't strike me as a lot but when you look at her total financial package, it's a bit more problematic: not a high income in a high COL area, higher-interest credit card debt (that would worry me way more than the student loans), etc. 

[Madame Crabanda]

10 hours ago, Paddywagon said:

I was thinking about how similar Lily and Heather are.  No, really, stay with me here. They're both rather rigid in how they do things.   Heather with her unpacking, Lily with her color-sorted closet; Lily with the feet washing, Heather with her neatness.  And yet the reaction from their partners couldn't be more different. I wonder if their guys were switched if Lily would come across as bitchy and Heather as having cute habits.  Tom is more cooperative with Lily's habits and Derek fights Heather over everything.  Like would Derek whine if Lily asked him to wash his feet? It would be interesting to see how the dynamic might change, if at all.

I am with the others who really don't feel that asking someone to wash their nasty feet that have been walking around all day (and who knows what kind of crap, literally or figuratively, is on the floors, sidewalks, and ground where he has walked?) is somehow diagnostic of OCD. Unlike observing someone else's lack of unpacking skills, waking up with someone else's foot grit on you is gross, and affects you personally.

I am of the "start as you mean to continue" school that says that if it bugs you, talk about it now instead of bringing it up in an argument six months from now.

Edited September 5, 2016 by Madame Crabanda

[kira28]

While smoking weed would be a deal breaker for me so would having to coach a guy on good hygiene.  Tom's feet were disgusting and now he just seems dirty and unwashed to me like he'd smell like ball sweat and Bo when u laid next to him.. Usually people are on their best behavior at the beginning of a relationship and want to impress their partner.. Hence lily's upbeat positive attitude about everything and sexy dressing up.  So ifso if Tom is already slacking on hygiene  and doing so in front of the cameras he's either not a fan of showering and kind of disgusting in real life or he's actively trying to turn lily off so he can get out of this arrangement because he's not really into her.  

'Derek is a petty little man child and was pissed off that Heather would not put out.  Compared to Ashley Heather did try and didn't have a bad attitude until Derek did something to turn her off.  The childish  you were flirting with the instructor because u swatted a bug off his chest.. The we'll we had a good talk but u walked out of the cave before I was ready to go wah wah wah Bullshit would get on my last nerve too.  I think Heather getting  drunk a d trying to reach Derrick on a frat boy level was why she was chanting chug it chug it.. Just all my oppinion

[nlkm9]

6 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

If Derek knew he was gonna get laid then he would wash his stanky feet.

Derek would have done ANYTHING to get some lovin' on his honeymoon.

hahaha, so true. my theory is in order to get Heather to have sex with him, he agreed to stop smoking...which made him super crabby, irritable, paranoid and confrontational so he probably should have sneaked a hit and he may have had half a chance. but he got all nasty and whiny. ugh. they are just a very bad match and shes no princess charming either.

[Drogo]

There's a spoiler thread, and an episode thread.  This is an episode thread.  

Do not post spoilers or talk about spoilers in the episode thread.  

[BunnySlippers]

1 minute ago, Drogo said:

There's a spoiler thread, and an episode thread.  This is an episode thread.  

Do not post spoilers or talk about spoilers in the episode thread.  

My apologies.

[LennieBriscoe]

There's no reason other than flirting for a woman to touch a strange man's bare chest (swatting away a bug? Please.) Jeez, body-language experts say even a woman's fussing with her own hair in front of a guy is being flirtatious. Derek was on the money.

[nlkm9]

fussing with your hair in front of a guy is flirting? for arguments sake, lets say she was flirting with the instructor.......the whiny and nasty way he confronted her was ridiculous....only married/know each other a few days and thats how you speak to someone?? Sorry but to me it was obvious that he was so frustrated that he couldnt smoke (and was having mild withdrawal)and seems to just expect that they would sleep together without even trying to be nice to her. 

I dont care for her affect either, she comes off as very rigid.....

[Jack Sampson]

15 hours ago, Empress1 said:

$18-$20K in student debt doesn't sound like a lot to me at all. If Nick has $20K in student loans and is making $80K a year, he's doing fine. Sonia's $25K doesn't strike me as a lot but when you look at her total financial package, it's a bit more problematic: not a high income in a high COL area, higher-interest credit card debt (that would worry me way more than the student loans), etc. 

$25k sounds like next to nothing.  Maybe it feels like more with her limited income.  I have college friends who graduated $80-100k in debt.

I'm confused about Nick, does he have an equity stake in any properties or does he just rep them?

[nlkm9]

I thought he was a rep and had also invested in a few....

[love2lovebadtv]

20 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I'm guessing Sonia has an MSW (it's my understanding that you need one to advance in social work), but honestly, a lot of people incur student loan debt getting a bachelor's, which is a requirement for many entry-level white collar jobs. I've worked places that won't hire a receptionist without a degree (which is bullshit, IMO). Nick can't have been doing Airbnb for his whole career; he's 32 and it hasn't been around long. I assume he has a BA/BS in whatever and his loans are from that. When I hear that people in a certain age bracket DON'T have student loans, I'm surprised. College is expensive as fuck. The national student loan debt is over a trillion dollars and growing all the time. Somebody's borrowing that money. (No shade; as I said I and nearly everyone I know borrowed money for their education. I know more people on the higher outlier side of things. I think I've mentioned my best friend and her husband, who owe over a quarter mil from two law degrees and his undergrad and while she does well financially, he does not - he was laid off in the recession and things never quite recovered.)

$18-$20K in student debt doesn't sound like a lot to me at all. If Nick has $20K in student loans and is making $80K a year, he's doing fine. Sonia's $25K doesn't strike me as a lot but when you look at her total financial package, it's a bit more problematic: not a high income in a high COL area, higher-interest credit card debt (that would worry me way more than the student loans), etc. 

I understand that people have student loans. College is expensive and some people are entering fields where the college you attend matters a great deal or perhaps have to live on campus because that major is not offered locally.  However, not everyone goes to an expensive school, lives on campus, etc.  I come from a lower-income background, attended a city university, and worked the whole time I was in school. I was a note-taker for students with disabilities so sometimes I was able to get paid by the college while in my own class in addition to other classes. I tutored also. I never took out any loans for my undergraduate degree.  I advise my DDs to hold off on student loans for as long as possible because both are interested in professions that require grad school. They have AP credits, CLEP credits and one was awarded 16 credits (a full semester of college) for the NYU language proficiency exam. 

I don't know if Sonia has an MSW or not. It's true you need one to advance in social work but it doesn't sound like she is advancing. Even if she chose to work in a non-profit she could pursue other sources of income that are available to someone with an MSW. I have a friend who only has a BSW, works for the government and makes very little. Another friend has an MSW plus postgraduate credits. She has a part-time counseling practice and works with foster families. Her sister also has an MSW and works in early intervention with kids who have autism.  I like Sonia a lot and I'd like to see her get rid of some of that debt while still doing work that is aligned with who she is. I'm guessing the credit card debt is because of her low income. 

BTW, debt was a very good topic for this show to get into. Income isn't the only indicator of financial fitness. 

[love2lovebadtv]

On 9/5/2016 at 4:24 AM, Matias130 said:

Thanks, love2lovebadtv. I dont know much about other education options out there so thanks for explaining how it works with PhD. I also suspected that Lily is older than 24, mainly bc she looks older. But she definitely dresses much older than 24, even for professional attire. Did you notice other things ?

It's quite possible that she just has an older looking face. I can see by looking at her sister that her the thinning hair is genetic, but Lily's thinning seems advanced for her age.  Also, she just talks about having done so many things. I can't figure out when she had the time to do all of them. Establishing yourself as a realtor takes some time. I'm not sure about the medical school thing. Someone here mentioned that she possibly entered medical school without a college degree. Then she attended the University of Houston (although no mention of having finished). Somewhere in between medical school and University of Houston she emigrated to the United States and obtained a realtor's license. And while all this was going on, she exhausted traditional means of finding a mate. 

FWIW, I like Lilly. I just have a feeling she's older than 24.

[love2lovebadtv]

22 hours ago, Madame Crabanda said:

I am with the others who really don't feel that asking someone to wash their nasty feet that have been walking around all day (and who knows what kind of crap, literally or figuratively, is on the floors, sidewalks, and ground where he has walked?) is somehow diagnostic of OCD. Unlike observing someone else's lack of unpacking skills, waking up with someone else's foot grit on you is gross, and affects you personally.

I am of the "start as you mean to continue" school that says that if it bugs you, talk about it now instead of bringing it up in an argument six months from now.

Well said! 

No sense in waiting till you're a year in and saying remember that time you came to bed with your nasty feet lol. 

We need to stop loosely using the OCD term. I can't remember if that was specifically used in this thread but it's not an accurate description of what has happened here, regardless of whether or not you agree with Lilly asking Tom to wash his feet or Heather griping about packing/unpacking. If you have ever met anyone with OCD or even read about it, you understand what I mean. 

[love2lovebadtv]

On 9/5/2016 at 9:16 AM, LennieBriscoe said:

The feet, the bus (moving out notwithstanding), the day-labor jobs, the surfing passion: NOTHING about Tom makes him a suitable spouse for an up-and-coming career woman, in Miami no less. A boyfriend, sure, what the heck.

Nick's dogs. I don't care if Sonia became phobic just from seeing the Met-Life Snoopy blimp; it is her fear, and she is entitled to it. Similarly, Nick is entitled to his dogs. Now, is Nick thus suitable for Sonia, if he places his dogs above her fear? I don't think so. He needs a dog-lover. That is not to say one type of person is superior.

Heather might want a sophisticated man (or even a grown-up one), but she might need then to up her own game in that regard and forget about "Chug! Chug!"

I agree. Both Nick and Sonia deserve someone who feels the same way about dogs. Nick needs not just a dog lover, but someone who's OK with face licking, sleeping with dogs, etc. Not everyone who has and loves dogs does all these things. 

Agreed re: Tom. The bus is the tip of the iceberg. I admire Lilly's open-mindedness. 

Nothing to say re: Heather & Derek. They are too sad too watch. 

[izabella]

I can't believe no one has mentioned the composting toilet on the bus, least of all, Lily! 

If Tom was expecting nookie, he should have taken a quick shower before bed.  Why were his feet so dirty?  Was he walking barefoot outside?  What else was he doing?  Shower please!

[love2lovebadtv]

On 9/5/2016 at 1:45 AM, Paddywagon said:

I was thinking about how similar Lily and Heather are.  No, really, stay with me here. They're both rather rigid in how they do things.   Heather with her unpacking, Lily with her color-sorted closet; Lily with the feet washing, Heather with her neatness.  And yet the reaction from their partners couldn't be more different. I wonder if their guys were switched if Lily would come across as bitchy and Heather as having cute habits.  Tom is more cooperative with Lily's habits and Derek fights Heather over everything.  Like would Derek whine if Lily asked him to wash his feet? It would be interesting to see how the dynamic might change, if at all.

I think they're similar in that they both are organized. But I think there is more a difference between them than their partners' reactions. Heather is a flight attendant and has been traveling often for a long time. She's bound to have a systematic way of doing things when it comes to traveling. I didn't get that she was rigid in a whole lot of other areas. People adopt systems to help them save time, do their jobs better, etc.  Same with Lily. Having an organized closet for someone whose job requires a particular look is a no-brainer. However, Lily doesn't expect Tom's closet to look at hers. She's not saying her closet is better. Heather, on the other hand, seemed annoyed that Derek didn't unpack the way she did.  Lily asked Tom to do something that affected her directly. If you want to kiss me, brush your teeth. If you want to snuggle next to me in a bed with nice white sheets, wash your feet. Or better yet, take a shower so you're not getting dirt all over me. Heather's attitude is more like I unpack; therefore, I'm superior. Not exactly but you get the point LOL.