S04.E06: For Richer Or Poorer

[seasick]

   Lily went to college. She said she went to the U of Texas in Houston IIRC.  She also went to school in Nicaragua I believe but I don't know what the cost would be there,  of if typical school loans are available.

I don't know if Heather went to college.  It's not a requirement for flight attendant although I'm sure it's a plus.  Heather did say that she was not motivated by money however if she won the lottery she would pay off her debts and her parents debts.    It made we wonder what those debts were about.   Generally if it is debt due to school loans or  a mortgage, people usually will usually say that as they are common, good-cause debts.  It sounded as though they were substantial--needing a huge windfall-- to pay them.  If my thoughts are true then don't understand the act of living above your means but then claiming you are not motivated by money.  

Sonia's credit card debt is a concern to me.   I get it for emergency car repairs,  a major appliance needing replacement--  (but she rents I think--so no home repairs.)   But that is substantial for what I would think are discretionary purchases.  

I don't think Sonia is 'chubby' so much as very out of shape with no muscle tone. 

[Empress1]

8 minutes ago, seasick said:

   Lily went to college. She said she went to the U of Texas in Houston IIRC.  She also went to school in Nicaragua I believe but I don't know what the cost would be there,  of if typical school loans are available.

I don't know if Heather went to college.  It's not a requirement for flight attendant although I'm sure it's a plus.  Heather did say that she was not motivated by money however if she won the lottery she would pay off her debts and her parents debts.    It made we wonder what those debts were about.   Generally if it is debt due to school loans or  a mortgage, people usually will usually say that as they are common, good-cause debts.  It sounded as though they were substantial--needing a huge windfall-- to pay them.  If my thoughts are true then don't understand the act of living above your means but then claiming you are not motivated by money.  

Sonia's credit card debt is a concern to me.   I get it for emergency car repairs,  a major appliance needing replacement--  (but she rents I think--so no home repairs.)   But that is substantial for what I would think are discretionary purchases.  

I don't think Sonia is 'chubby' so much as very out of shape with no muscle tone. 

It may be that Sonia doesn't make enough to fully live on and has to supplement her income with credit cards. I would guess that her income would put her in the category where getting hit with the unexpected expense stick (which happens to everyone) would mean charging that unexpected expense.

I didn't read much into "pay my debts" from Heather. Could be car loans, could be mortgages, both, whatever. I like to play the "what would I do if I won the mega million" game and I always say I'd "take care of my parents," which would include wiping out any debt they have (and ensuring they have the best care as they age).

I stand corrected re: Lily and college.

[Neurochick]

19 hours ago, psychoticstate said:

PC should have asked her what kind of marriage she wanted.  Does she even know?  Does she have a realistic expectation to begin with?

I agree with this.  What exactly does she want in a marriage?  Maybe her expectations are based on stuff she's seen on romantic comedies.

 

18 hours ago, jmonkey said:

I think she would've been upset if Tom was poor. It turns out he's not poor. He's just a cheap bastard like I am. I thought Tom asking for a "post-nup" was one of the most sensible things I've ever seen on this often nonsensical show. It didn't surprise me because minimalists, by nature, always have their mind on their money and frugality.

Yes to this.  My feeling is, why spend money on shit you don't need?  Better to spend money on experiences, like going somewhere.  Some people spend money on stuff just because they want others to be impressed, in reality most people don't give a shit.

 

18 hours ago, jmonkey said:

 The dog issue is a lifestyle choice like the smoking issue Derek and Heather are dealing with. It's not negotiable and not something a person should be expected to work on and get past. Sonia has been a good sport, and I think she's one of those people who could get along with anybody. She seems to be more interested in making this marriage work than Nick is. Unfortunately Nick is one of those dog owners who thinks that everyone will love his dogs. I think he could've been a little more sensitive towards Sonia's fear instead of letting the dogs jump her when she walked through the door. I think Nick is kind of self-absorbed and inconsiderate, but he gets away with it because he's shy. I still think they'll consummate, but there's no way these two will stay together.

That's an interesting point.  I think the show is using marriage as therapy.  There are some people who believe that you unconsciously choose people because you need to work on certain things in your life.  The difference is that you are the ones doing the choosing and it's up to the person to decide if they need to work on their stuff.

I must be watching a different show because to me PC doesn't come off as a bully, or is shouting.  Maybe people here are used to folks who only whisper. 

I also don't understand why emotions are bad.  I didn't think Derek attacked Heather.  If that's what Heather thinks is an attack then she's got some issues.  Just because someone confronts you, doesn't mean they are yelling/abusive/bullying. 

[seasick]

11 minutes ago, okerry said:

 

And to keep this on topic, Derek might have this very same attitude and that's what really happened between him and Heather. I'm convinced it wasn't his smoking, whether weed or not.

I saw enough of Heather's judgement on little things to think it was about the weed and other small things that turned her off.  (and it could have been his tattoos, hat on backwards, his clothing, his voice, etc. etc.  as mentioned on the boards here as apparent total deal-killers)   Maybe the weed was the most respectable excuse to use and she was just turned off by many of the things mentioned above.  

And-- the way he reacted to her ( you can tell alot about a person by how they argue or fight) was a turn-off as well.        

I will say too--that if Heather has had any creeping concerns about how much she drinks he may have hit a big nerve when he called her an alcoholic.  (low blow)  But I've worked in hotels that house airline workers and it's kinda what they do.  They want to get out of their hotel rooms.. not much time to explore, they usually have a turn-around the next day -- so they tend to  get together and hang out at the bar with the other pilots, attendants etc.  Doesn't make you an alcoholic but it's  commonly a very drinking lifestyle.   Time at home can be lonely-- a couple of glasses of wine every night--  he may have hit a nerve.

[Nowhere]

My dad was an airline captain for US Airways. Drinking isn't a smart idea the night before a flight. Possibly the flight attendants are more likely to get together and drink during layovers but the pilots can't show up to work hung over so it's avoided while working for the most part. They pretty much have to be on point. the pilot's purpose is not to explore but to get passengers safely from point A to point B. There's not really time to do much but get to the hotel room and get ready for the next flight. In my experience, being a pilot or flight attendant is not a drinking lifestyle. Pilots usually have a route that they take every time they work, and stop in the same few cities for the most part. It's not a new and fun experience every time. Definitely not a party lifestyle. Geez I'd hate to think my pilot is hungover on my next flight. The flight attendants can go for it though. As long as they aren't so hungover that they can't pour my Coke and give me a tiny bag of pretzels, I'm ok.

[Lily247]

3 hours ago, Enero said:

Sonya said that she has about $25K in student loans and about $10K in credit card debt. So she's about  $40K in debt. Nick stated that he has about $18k-$20k in student loan debt. Also, he makes about $80k-$90k a year, but his income can also be hit or miss. He probably has the highest income out of  all the participants when business is booming for him. 

 

This is likely due to her not going to college. 

I agree with this statement. Nowadays college rates (grad school especially) are through the roof and unless your parents are rich, then student loans are the way of life. To get a profession that requires an education, you will probably end up going into student loan debt. I have 80K in debt (fresh out of grad school), but I earn 68K a year for my first job. I also have 2 young kids in daycare, so it will take me longer to pay it off, but I have 20 years so I am not worried. I heard Lily say she went to University of Houston to study Anthropology but she never said that she graduated, so maybe thats why she doesnt have debt, so what I am saying is there is nothing to be ashamed of for having student loan debt, it means you are educated ;)

[Jack Sampson]

20 hours ago, psychoticstate said:

PC should have asked her what kind of marriage she wanted.  Does she even know?  Does she have a realistic expectation to begin with?

 

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

I agree with this.  What exactly does she want in a marriage?  Maybe her expectations are based on stuff she's seen on romantic comedies. 

I'm guessing she'd come up with another vague answer.  "I just want things to 'click'."

It'd be funny if she gave an answer, then PC pulled out her original questionnaire wherein she gives a completely different one.

[Nowhere]

Remember outside the cave when Derek was throwing a fit, he said something about him cheering her on when they were surfing and she said she was cheering him on as well so why can't he focus on the good instead of the bad. It's like the producers want Heather to be the villain this season, so they don't show her having fun with Derek. Then they encourage him to complain about something and hope that she doesn't spill it that she was having fun and cheering him on. Why is everybody acting like he's some fucking prize and she's the bottom of the barrel? I don't see him doing anything better than her. I don't see that she has any worse habits then he has. Just because he throws fits and she's stoic doesn't mean that he cares more. To me it means that he's seriously immature, not that he's any more invested in the relationship.

[Lily247]

16 hours ago, Passthepopcorn said:

It wasn't for me and my husband of ten years :) But everybody is different... If there's chemistry and core values anything is possible.u

The guys are white but live in FL, so I guess Latin culture is not completely foreign to them. And the girls have lived more years in America than in their countries of origin, so the American culture is second nature to them.

Unless they have always lived within their cultural group, but even then I don't see a major problem. Again it depends on their open mindedness and will to commit to each other. 

True - there tends to be more chemistry when the couple comes from different cultures, countries, languages, etc. 

However the only concern is the families of the couples. They may or may not be comfortable with having a son/daughter in law from a different culture and it can be very hard to change that. Also, some culutres are very very family oriented and like getting the family together all the time, and I think American culture is not so much like that. These differences can explode 100x bigger when kids come into the picture. 

[Jack Sampson]

3 minutes ago, Nowhere said:

Why is everybody acting like he's some fucking prize and she's the bottom of the barrel? I don't see him doing anything better than her.

I don't know of anyone who's saying Derek is a prize, but he's definitely trying harder. 

[Evil Queen]

14 hours ago, Adeejay said:

I can't with Lili.  I think she is disingenuous as hell.  I noticed that her face fell when Tom asked for a post nup.  What I find interesting is that while she keeps professing her love and saying how great they are together, he isn't making any such declaration.  Say what you want about Nick, but at least he isn't leading Sonia on. 

I saw that face too. She was so not ok with that talk. Tom keeps saying in his THs that he is falling in love with her or how he could. I though I heard her use the word love for the first time in a TH in this episode. I just rolled my eyes at it all when they are like this. They aren't really saying these things to each other yet but that is not a bad thing. At this point its all about the groping and bedroom romps with them. LOL With Nick, while he isn't leading her on, he also isn't leading her in any direction at all on what is going on. He is leaving her to wonder where she stands. 

12 hours ago, Blissfool said:

I found this hilarious because my teenage son totally called it out. He compared it to a flotation device around her neck. 

ETA: Lily seems to believe she's hotter than what she actually is. She walks around dressed to the nines (i think she's a great dresser), carefully planning each step in her 5 inch heels, sticking her butt out with each step, holding on to serial killer's arm with one hand and her precious pet's leash with the other hand. I bet she holds her pinkie out when she drinks champagne, too. 

She reminds me of some of the older real estate agents in my area. There are ones like that that dress to the nines all the time and run around in their 5 in heels. Like they are always on the clock so to speak. LOL I have seen others that dress more comfy when off the clock. 

9 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

ITA, once again "Pastor" (and I use quote marks purposely) strikes me as yet another reality show BS artist and not a professional counselor.  They might as well have gotten Dr. Phil as him for the show.  His brand of "pablum schlock psychology" helps no one but makes audiences go "wow".  It's all about him, not about the people he helps.  His is a simplistic, uneducated look at marriage IMO.  He may have several degrees for all I know but he's not impressing me, none of them have on this show except for Dr. Pepper and even she is out there at times.  And ITA about marriage and the alone time.  If not for that I would never have lasted 36 years in one.  Constant togetherness is not a solution for anything, especially when you've been fighting and have reached an impasse.  Besides, Heather was asking for maybe ONE FREAKING NIGHT to recuperate and get her thoughts and emotions together.  She even said she needed to "sleep on it".  But instead she gets a ration of crap about it as if Pastor Shouty thought she was looking for an excuse to bail completely.  I don't believe that was the case at all and she deserved better.

I refuse to call Pepper a Dr. at all in anything. The lady left her marriage to run off and slut it up. IMO she is the last person I would want advice on marriage as well. I didn't understand why the others were of to their places for the first night back but they had to just be rushed off to Pastor Shouty like that instead of being able to go back to their places and then go see him the next day in the morning once they are rest. 

7 hours ago, Enero said:

Am I the only who thinks none of these folks are doing significantly well financially? As I understand it's very expensive to live in Florida, especially south Florida where they're located. $60k I'm guessing is about the average salary you'll need to make to do okay if you don't have kids etc.

I am in the same line of thinking as you. When you here 3 of them saying depending on how things are that year the amount could go up or down...well that doesn't sit well if you want someone stable. I think with Lily she is probably just starting out in real estate and needs to build herself up. If she can and does well she will make more as time goes on. Tom though is another story. Like I have said before, I think he is more in the line of like construction is. Where if you aren't working under a stable company that has jobs all the time but are more contract to contact that money is going to bounce around to the point that one would wonder how stable of an income does he have. When my husband worked construction he worked for someone and had work 5 days a week. They mostly were doing jobs on people's homes though so that is a bit more steady of a job than some construction can be. With Tom doing yachts though you have to wonder about the flow of work coming his way. Then there is Nick with his rentals. Sure it is FL but the fact is that things do happen too. How many rentals does he have? Is it one or does he have more? That will vary on the income as well as what he charges for the rentals. I will take that FL is probably more AirBnB/vacation rental friendly than my part of Cali is. More and more cities here and making it illegal to do rentals in their cities. Anaheim just voted to make it illegal because it was disrupting neighborhoods around the Disneyland area. I live in a beach city that doesn't allow it and I know many other ones don't either. So as long as the city/cities) he has rentals in are friendly to that and if he adds on to the rental(s) he has down the line he probably could make a decent living out of it for sure. 

22 minutes ago, Nowhere said:

My dad was an airline captain for US Airways. Drinking isn't a smart idea the night before a flight. Possibly the flight attendants are more likely to get together and drink during layovers but the pilots can't show up to work hung over so it's avoided while working for the most part. They pretty much have to be on point. the pilot's purpose is not to explore but to get passengers safely from point A to point B. There's not really time to do much but get to the hotel room and get ready for the next flight. In my experience, being a pilot or flight attendant is not a drinking lifestyle. Pilots usually have a route that they take every time they work, and stop in the same few cities for the most part. It's not a new and fun experience every time. Definitely not a party lifestyle. Geez I'd hate to think my pilot is hungover on my next flight. The flight attendants can go for it though. As long as they aren't so hungover that they can't pour my Coke and give me a tiny bag of pretzels, I'm ok.

I took what was said as they just are unwinding and not getting plastered. I could be wrong in what was said but I can imagine some may have a drink or 2 and then go up to the room to rest for the next flight out. As long as they aren't getting plastered and hung over or showing up to fly drunk there is nothing wrong with that 1-2 with dinner or whatever. 

[cardigirl]

4 minutes ago, Evil Queen said:

I don't watch it so I am curious if he was saying he would buy lots of houses and cars though or what? If it was lots than I can see why she would. It would be kind of silly to have lots of houses and cars. Even I think that but in the end whatever since its whoever's choice. I think everyone would pay off any kind of debt they might have before anything else. I think no matter what everyone has different ways they would spend money like that though but it doesn't make it right or wrong...unless you blow through it like an idiot. I have kids but I would rather travel if I could afford it. The thing is I would would be taking them along. Doesn't mean to me someone has a carefree attitude towards money one way or the other though. Since she doesn't have kids that is doesn't matter and more so if she doesn't want them. Not everyone does. Just like not everyone wants to travel. Heck its just like sharing the money with other family if you won a lottery. It might come off in bad light to some but those that know what I have gone through with my parents and sister would know exactly why I wouldn't give them one cent and would go into hiding if I won.

I don't remember them asking Derek, specifically, but they asked Heather what she thought Derek would do if he won the lottery.  

[Nowhere]

They said the job comes with a drinking lifestyle. A glass of wine at dinner is not what I consider a drinking lifestyle. It's probably pretty annoying to be called an alcoholic no matter how much you drink so I don't think it hit a nerve. I was just saying the job is not like that because it would be very hard to work and have a drinking lifestyle but that doesn't mean some don't get together at the hotel bar. Saying something is a lifestyle holds certain connotations. Ive met tons of pilots and flight attendants my whole life. Drinking lifestyle hasn't been what I've seen. If she worked on a cruise ship I'd think differently maybe.

[Neurochick]

I am not surprised at the jobs people on this show have.  The matchmaking special was very interesting because they explained how many people had to drop out because of job responsibilities.  Some people aren't able to take the amount of time off, to do this show; some people's jobs might not look to kindly on their employees, if they do a show like this.  I think a great many people are weeded out of the process, just because of that.  

So it's not that "these are the best people they could find."  It's more like, "these are the best people we can find who are, camera ready, not insane, don't have any felony convictions, are able to commit to the show, and aren't afraid of their families and/or jobs finding out about their participation.  

I wonder how large the "dating pool" for this show actually is.  

Quote

I refuse to call Pepper a Dr. at all in anything. The lady left her marriage to run off and slut it up. IMO she is the last person I would want advice on marriage as well. 

I don't get this.  The fact that she left her husband doesn't negate her degree (if she had one).  

Regarding Heather, I think as some people age, the list of deal breakers gets longer and longer, maybe that's her issue with Derek.  He's probably not a bad guy, but just not for her.

Edited September 1, 2016 by Neurochick

[Magoo]

46 minutes ago, Nowhere said:

Remember outside the cave when Derek was throwing a fit,

The way he acted there was so...yuck.  He threw a public temper tantrum and wanted everyone to watch.  He aired their personal business loudly and blocked other tourists from entering the cave. When Heather tried to move to a more private area (like most normal people would do), he waved his arms around and snotted about her caring more about some stranger's feelings than his and how HE should be more important.  Call me uptight, but I'd sooner have sharp sticks poked in my eye than have a giant, stupid fight anywhere but behind closed doors.  I would have been mortified and I don't blame Heather at all for taking a separate car home that day. 

[Neurochick]

I still don't get what's wrong with Pastor Calvin.  I don't find him a bully; I didn't think he was shouting at Heather.  Maybe I'm watching a different show that most of the people here.  

[Empress1]

The lottery question is OK, but a more important one for compatibility is if you're a spender or saver. I'm a saver (my emergency fund saved me when I was unemployed) and budgeter, so it's essential that I am with someone who respects that. The first thing I'd do if I won the for-real, never work again mega-million money is see a financial adviser and an attorney to make sure I stayed wealthy. Talking about income and debt is essential, but the couples also need a sense of how the other views money. IMO money talk requires a much more in-depth conversation than the ones the couples appeared to have. (I do remember the couples last season talking about saving.) E.g. for those with debt, how do they plan to pay it off? In how long? On what was it incurred? If they did get a windfall, what would they do with it? (My answer to that would vary depending on the size of the windfall.) Money is the number one reason couples fight, so IMO you want to be very clear about how you and your spouse see it. Something tells me Heather and Derek see it differently. I can't even picture them talking about money - there's no way they get out of that conversation without fighting.

Just now, Magoo said:

The way he acted there was so...yuck.  He threw a public temper tantrum and wanted everyone to watch.  He aired their personal business loudly and blocked other tourists from entering the cave. When Heather tried to move to a more private area (like most normal people would do), he waved his arms around and snotted about her caring more about some stranger's feelings than his and how HE should be more important.  Call me uptight, but I'd sooner have sharp sticks poked in my eye than have a giant, stupid fight anywhere but behind closed doors.  I would have been mortified and I don't blame Heather at all for taking a separate car home that day. 

Can you imagine being on vacation at that cave, minding your own business trying to have a nice time, and seeing a couple fighting while being filmed? I hate seeing couples fighting in public - I'm always like "This is none of my business!" and want to run away.

[Magoo]

2 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

Can you imagine being on vacation at that cave, minding your own business trying to have a nice time, and seeing a couple fighting while being filmed? I hate seeing couples fighting in public - I'm always like "This is none of my business!" and want to run away.

Hah - exactly!  Run fast.

[henrysmom]

Quote

So it's not that "these are the best people they could find."  It's more like, "these are the best people we can find who are, camera ready, not insane, don't have any felony convictions, are able to commit to the show, and aren't afraid of their families and/or jobs finding out about their participation.  

I wonder how large the "dating pool" for this show actually is. 

This is why I think this show is never going to have a high success rate.  Sure, they get 30,000 applicants.  From the way they seem to have to actively recruit men, I'd guess 25,000 of the applicants are women.  

Once they weed out the people who aren't actually from Miami, and are too young, too old, too not-camera ready, insaner than some of the ones they've ended up with (scary thought), have convictions that aren't <too> bad, then they are left with maybe 100 people (mainly women).  

And then the majority of those 100 panic and realize that there is no way a nurse/teacher/CPA/doctor/person with a position of authority can go on this show without repercussions, so those women drop out.   And of the 50 or so who remain, probably half watch the show and realize what a trainwreck it can be so they drop off.  So the show is left with 25 women to match up with whatever men the producers can snag from Tinder or Match.com or Facebook.

I think they are lucky they have the tiny success rate they do, considering.

[ethalfrida]

Now that someone has mentioned being an older prospect I don't see why older participants are not recruited.

[Jack Sampson]

7 minutes ago, ethalfrida said:

Now that someone has mentioned being an older prospect I don't see why older participants are not recruited.

Probably because it's more likely kids are involved.  I wouldn't want to put a kid through this.

[Empress1]

2 minutes ago, ethalfrida said:

Now that someone has mentioned being an older prospect I don't see why older participants are not recruited.

I'd guess because the likelihood is greater that an older person (say, over 40) has been married before and has kids. You can't drag kids into this foolishness. I would shut this down hard as the other parent if my hypothetical ex-husband/father of my hypothetical kids wanted to do this. 

[ZaldamoWilder]

On 8/30/2016 at 11:33 PM, Enero said:

Regarding men kissing their dogs, that is NOT universal, nor is every man owning a dog. I know plenty of guys who don't own dogs and those that do who don't allow them anywhere near their face. 

I think this is highly individual to each fur-parent.  I've had two dogs in my life, whom I get choked up just thinking about.   Our tongues never touched.   It's so odd to me that people who don't welcome doggie kisses in their mouths are branded anti-animal.   I'm anti-drool.   I love my only child with my whole core but I've never french kissed her either.

On 8/30/2016 at 11:52 PM, BunnySlippers said:

I'm not a fan of this pastor. Why was he trying to force Heather to make a decision right that minute? She kept saying that she was tired, she was exhausted, she needed time, and he still kept pushing and pushing and pushing.  I really wish they could talk about the real issues instead of skirting around them, especially if it was really weed that Derek was smoking. I think it was.

Nodding.   Upon rewatch, I heard Heather say something I missed originally:   I don't mind occasional use, but smoking every day....   most people just don't refer to cigarettes as "usage".    

On 8/31/2016 at 9:34 AM, Magoo said:

There was a LOT of dirt coming off Tom's feet when he was rinsing them off before bed. It was swirling around in the tub.  I'm not a clean freak, but that was gross and I don't blame Lilly at all for insisting he wash that crap off before climbing into clean sheets and rubbing that nastiness on her. 

I don't think she's a clean freak either.   He's expecting or at least hoping for sex, but doesn't wash his whole body before coming to bed?  Bruh.  If you have to be asked to wash anything, you're {{picksuppompoms}} n-a-s-t-y, you're nasty.

On 8/31/2016 at 1:43 PM, Nowhere said:

Y'all, maybe he smells like ass or has terrible breath. I don't care how good looking a guy is, if he doesn't have good hygiene, I won't touch him. Some people just stink. I'm not saying that's the problem with Derek. I'm just saying that there could be a thousand things that are deal breakers that Heather may not want to admit to on camera. Saying, "Derek smells like tuna fish", for example, may seem a little too mean even for Heather. I know there are some things I wouldn't want to tell somebody for fear of hurting feelings and getting serious backlash from fans saying how dare she call him out on tv. There could be a number of reasons why we don't know the problem and may never know.

Lol!!!  speaking of nasty.  There is a ton of stuff we don't know and she ain't saying about Derek.   Sometimes I wish Heather were black.   Wed've found out exactly what was wrong with him by the time of the cave snapout. 

22 hours ago, Snewtsie said:

I am no fan of Heather, but I wished Derek would have stopped flying off the handle like he did in the counseling session.  These two people are polar opposites when under stress ...Heather becomes robotic, showing no emotion whatsoever.  Derek becomes reactive, letting his temper take over.  I think the editors focused on showing Heather more because Pastor Calvin's frustration with her mirrored Derek's frustration.  You can't argue, debate, or reason with a tree stump (yes, Heather is the tree stump).  I get that she needed sleep - fair enough - but SAY SOMETHING to reveal what she thinks the issues are.  Smoking? Snoring? Smelly feet?  Comic strip tattoos?  Her silence is the issue.  I think that's why Pastor Calvin wasn't letting her off the hook- she wasn't articulating anything at all.  It would have been a great opportunity for Derek to keep calm and let her look like the bigger asshole.

And ironically both Derek and a trained counselor and pastor have failed to see that continuing to try and harass a response out of her isn't effective.   She seems to open up more easily when not addressed confrontationally.   Whod've thunk?  See I don't think anything's wrong with Heather.  I think she got her expectations busted in and despite trying to make the best of it, has had a really hard time rolling with the punches because they aren't her kind of punches.   He lights up blunts for breakfast, cannot respond to a conversation without becoming abrasive and defensive and thinks he's demonstrating the actions that he's only verbalized and on top of that, his emotional maturity topped out at around 17.   As evidenced by this exchange:  

On 8/30/2016 at 10:50 PM, Paddywagon said:

What a fail counseling session.  Did Derek ever once ask what he can do to help the situation?  Nope.  He told her to just leave.  (Oh, good way to promote communication asshole.). He told her she quit after 2 days.  (Of course he played no part in that.) He just kept on and on and I'm glad he was asked to leave the counseling session so there could be an adult conversation.  She was actually opening up once Derek was out of the room.  I wish she would've gotten her bitch on and told him to STFU.

He 

doesn't

Ever 

Stop!

And then he says he's committed to the marriage.  He's got all the right lines but his actions are childish.  Dude, walk the talk and quit your whining.

No wonder Heather feels she's not with a grown man.  She should take her mean self and run like hell.

Peace sign.   I'd just have to pay off my credit debt with a second job or something.

21 hours ago, jmonkey said:

Tom and Lilly: As predicted by me and many in this forum, the bus was a non-issue. Shoot, Lilly probably just spent 10 minutes there-just enough time to complain about the bed and the shower on camera. They got a place together so fast that it's not like she had to live there. Besides Tom is pulling $60-$70 K a year as a yacht detailer, so it's not like he had to live in a bus down by the river. He chose to and that's acceptable. Because Lilly requested a financially secure guy in the application process, I think she would've been upset if Tom was poor. It turns out he's not poor. He's just a cheap bastard like I am. I thought Tom asking for a "post-nup" was one of the most sensible things I've ever seen on this often nonsensical show. It didn't surprise me because minimalists, by nature, always have their mind on their money and frugality. I don't think Lilly sees this as a red flag (and she shouldn't) because getting a "post-nup" means Tom has actual assets he wants to protect. He wants to make sure that Lilly doesn't get his plush bus. This is way better than the alternative of Tom trying to live off Lilly's realtor earnings and that should be comforting to her should things go awry down the road. And they will eventually. However, I think these two will make it long enough for the experts to pat themselves on the back. They'll probably stay married a month or 2 after the season ends. Good on Lilly for making Tom wash his nasty feet. Put some shoes on, Nature Boy!

Nick and Sonia: I'm a guy, and I think Sonia is muy caliente and a sweetheart. I get so frustrated watching Nick and Sonia. Sonia's clock is ticking and she couldn't be any more hot to trot while Nick is more interested in making out with his dogs (so gross!). I yell at my screen, "What's wrong you? BANG HER!" to Nick like 20 times an episode. I would've consummated the crap out of that marriage already if I was him. I thought, at first, maybe he's just shy and it takes him a while to warm up, but now I believe he's just not that into her. I really don't understand why, and I also don't get why the experts matched these two. Sonia wanted a manly man and is terrified of dogs, so, of course, they pair her with meterosexual Nick who has two dogs. WTF? I am also scared of dogs and anytime I'm around them I get a "flight-or-fight" feeling inside my body. That's no way to live, and I can't believe the experts disregarded her fear of dogs when matching them. That's not cool. It would be a dealbreaker for me, and it seems like it's an issue for Sonia too. Why didn't the experts pick someone who loves dogs for Nick instead? It seems like the experts have put unnecessary obstacles in the way of couples for television purposes and that just sucks. This isn't just opposites attract, different personality type of stuff that the experts seemed to be going for with this pairing. The dog issue is a lifestyle choice like the smoking issue Derek and Heather are dealing with. It's not negotiable and not something a person should be expected to work on and get past. Sonia has been a good sport, and I think she's one of those people who could get along with anybody. She seems to be more interested in making this marriage work than Nick is. Unfortunately Nick is one of those dog owners who thinks that everyone will love his dogs. I think he could've been a little more sensitive towards Sonia's fear instead of letting the dogs jump her when she walked through the door. I think Nick is kind of self-absorbed and inconsiderate, but he gets away with it because he's shy. I still think they'll consummate, but there's no way these two will stay together.

Derek and Heather: I really hope these two quit the show because they both really annoy me. However, I'm pretty sure they'll stick it out for their fifteen minutes of fame. There's probably a financial incentive for staying the whole 6 weeks even if this relationship is irreparable. Who knows? Maybe they could be friends if they just agree to not pursue this marriage. Obviously this marriage is over. If a couple spends most of their honeymoon fighting, that's a pretty good sign that it is a bad match. I like Pastor Calvin, but I was getting mad at him telling Heather that she has to put the work in. I'm thinking why bother if they've already determined that they're not right for each other. I know this is an experiment and the couples are supposed to be good soldiers and do whatever it takes to save the marriage. I just wish there was more accountability on the expert's part to better match the couples so that they don't have to extend themselves so much. That's where the extreme exhaustion has come in for Derek and Heather. It seemed like Pastor Calvin was kind of shaming Heather for not putting the work in. I can't say that I blame her considering what a bitch baby Derek was the entire honeymoon. In real life, Derek and Heather would go on a date and find out they're incompatible and go on with their lives. On this show, they're forced and/or coerced into trying to make something work that shouldn't exist in the first place. I agree that marriage takes hard work, but that's assuming that you like and respect the person you're married to. Heather and Derek don't like each other, so they don't deem each other as worthy enough to put in the time and effort. Doing so is trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. This coupling was a epic failure by the experts, and I look forward to hearing them try to polish this turd.

ROTFLMAO!!!!   Ahhhh shit, I'm still laughing at this.   Bitch made was the phrase I was thinking of.  Maybe we can play Match Game sometime lol!  On the last night of the honeymoon, in his TH he goes - I was trying to open up to her and all she could do was get drunk.    You were trying to open up to her?  Dude when? what did you say that we missed?  Look, if you can ruin a damn chugging contest, the problem is you. 

20 hours ago, Jack Sampson said:

Does a barely remembered, booze filled one night stand count?

I wonder if they should include an expert with some experience in arranged marriages.  And have them pre-rate (1-10) the potential matches beforehand like the AU version does.  

Is it too early for this year's ratings?  Ladies, how would you rate the men?  1-10 for face, body and personality.

It'll sound like some hokey nonsense but they could look like Idris Elba, Bradley Cooper and Jesse Williams, a man's personality is always gonna supersede the rest (for me).   Which means they're solid 3s across the board.   Nick on a surfboard was delicious to look at until I remembered that he's got all the enthusiasm of Michael Bloomberg speaking spanish at a press conference, about everything except his dogs.

I'm mildly offended on her behalf that for the last five pages we've been discussing the propensity of the woman in this clip at 0:10 to become fat in a few years.   ON. TELEVISION, she might be a size 8, maybe.    So what?  You can lose fat.   Aversion to a temporary condition, not so much. 

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/married-first-sight-couple-fight-over-cars-soon-after-consummating-their-marriage-1576325

[cecig75]

54 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

I still don't get what's wrong with Pastor Calvin.  I don't find him a bully; I didn't think he was shouting at Heather.  Maybe I'm watching a different show that most of the people here.  

I actually like him. I don't see how people think he was yelling at Heather...he seemed just as frustrated as she was. The editing made it seem he was out to call Heather out. If you go back, you can tell where they made some cuts.

I hate to hear how people talk about the participants' looks and point out their imperfections. I don't think any of the women are fat and disgusting...the men this season are not bad looking to me. 

[Nowhere]

"This is my first time cooking for someone and he's a stranger. He's someone I just met under two weeks ago," said Lily who clearly doesn't know what a stranger is.

[zxy556575]

4 minutes ago, Nowhere said:

"This is my first time cooking for someone and he's a stranger. He's someone I just met under two weeks ago," said Lily who clearly doesn't know what a stranger is.

That was funny. They've been sexing it up on vacation and now it's awkward for her to cook with him?

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

So it's not that "these are the best people they could find."  It's more like, "these are the best people we can find who are, camera ready, not insane, don't have any felony convictions, are able to commit to the show, and aren't afraid of their families and/or jobs finding out about their participation.  

Can you imagine the non-camera-ready applicants who were immediately discarded? All participants from all seasons (even OMG doughy David!) have been within a healthy weight range and, objectively, average or above-average in looks. The swimsuit models of either sex aren't going to need this show and I think casting has done a good job in the looks department, all things considered. The participants who've been palpably disappointed with their spouse's appearance went into it with unrealistic expectations, and that's on them.

[Evil Queen]

3 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I don't get this.  The fact that she left her husband doesn't negate her degree (if she had one).  

Maybe not but it doesn't qualify her to give marriage advice IMO. She left him to go have sex with many different men. At least this is how she had put it in an interview she did at one point. Of course no matter what I wouldn't trust any of these "experts" to give good advice out ever....more so since its a tv show. 

53 minutes ago, lordonia said:

That was funny. They've been sexing it up on vacation and now it's awkward for her to cook with him?

LMAO Maybe she doesn't normally ever cook at all for even herself so she had no clue how it would turn out. 

[love2lovebadtv]

On 8/31/2016 at 6:21 PM, Evil Queen said:

 I must had missed him saying he had a lot of debt. I heard him say the part about making around 60K last year and the year before almost 70K or something like that. I get the feeling that his job is pretty similar to construction and how the jobs come so the pay will vary for those not under a steady company.  And agree its not a lot that he makes but yet my friend's husband is a mailman and makes less. He has had that job for over 20 yrs now too. I wouldn't be surprised if he had some sort of little old truck or car that would do ok with holding his boards to get to the beach. If its not in walking distance. I know I really like having certain places within walking distance myself (have 2 grocery stores, big lots, a couple fast food places, gas stations, post office, Home Depot, etc) all within 5 mins walking. I live in a beach city on the west coast so you see many ride bikes or walk depending on where they are from things. As for the debt though, why do they pick those with so much debt? I don't remember the past seasons the couple discussing their debt like this or the exact amount of money they earned in their jobs. You could tell Sonia wasn't comfortable with it. Heck most people aren't. Its not just something you just start talking about like that. Especially debt. 

Whose car were Tom and Lilly riding in? I assumed it was his. 

[nlkm9]

3 hours ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

 

 

I'm mildly offended on her behalf that for the last five pages we've been discussing the propensity of the woman in this clip at 0:10 to become fat in a few years.   ON. TELEVISION, she might be a size 8, maybe.    So what?  You can lose fat.   Aversion to a temporary condition, not so much. 

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/married-first-sight-couple-fight-over-cars-soon-after-consummating-their-marriage-1576325

I respectfully disagree--she is WAYYY bigger than a size 8, she is a big girl, and Nick is in excellent shape--its very possible that he is not attracted to a larger woman. I can wear a size 8 and she is a good 30-40 lbs bigger than me-I know its very fashionable to be accepting of all body types, but I really think he is just completely unattracted to her(and there is nothing wrong with that--everyone has a physical type)....I sort of hope they can fall for each other, but to me the dog issue is the biggest issue here--he didnt seem to care at all that she is uncomfortable around dogs and that made me like him a lot less.

[Jack Sampson]

7 minutes ago, nlkm9 said:

I respectfully disagree--she is WAYYY bigger than a size 8, she is a big girl, and Nick is in excellent shape--its very possible that he is not attracted to a larger woman. I can wear a size 8 and she is a good 30-40 lbs bigger than me-I know its very fashionable to be accepting of all body types, but I really think he is just completely unattracted to her(and there is nothing wrong with that--everyone has a physical type)....I sort of hope they can fall for each other, but to me the dog issue is the biggest issue here--he didnt seem to care at all that she is uncomfortable around dogs and that made me like him a lot less.

Nick's using the dogs to cock block the same way Trashley did...or is that vag block?     

[Vinyasa]

Quote

This is my first time cooking for someone and he's a stranger. He's someone I just met under two weeks ago," said Lily who clearly doesn't know what a stranger is.

Ha! I wonder if this "stranger" description  is coming from the producers. They said it ad nauseam last season.

Now Lily is acting as if she is cooking dinner for someone she met an hour earlier on the street.

[love2lovebadtv]

18 minutes ago, love2lovebadtv said:

The mail carrier  has benefits like health insurance and vacation days,  possible overtime. But then again,  Tom is only 28 so who knows where he'll end up in terms of his career. 

Edited September 1, 2016 by love2lovebadtv

[ethalfrida]

3 hours ago, Nowhere said:

"This is my first time cooking for someone and he's a stranger. He's someone I just met under two weeks ago," said Lily who clearly doesn't know what a stranger is.

Nowhere, you crazy!

[love2lovebadtv]

Lol ok.  I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt.  He does seem to love the beach bum lifestyle. 

[KateHearts]

10 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

Sonya- she said she earns $46,000 and has $85,000 in debt? Holy shit. Unless that includes college loans and she went to Harvard, that would be a huge red flag for me. 

I heard her say she had $40k in debt.  25k in student loans and the rest credit cards.

[nlkm9]

42 minutes ago, Jack Sampson said:

Nick's using the dogs to cock block the same way Trashley did...or is that vag block?     

perhaps you are correct. And Im sure he is very annoyed to be matched with someone who dislikes dogs--I know I would be!!

[KateHearts]

6 hours ago, Evil Queen said:

I refuse to call Pepper a Dr. at all in anything. The lady left her marriage to run off and slut it up. IMO she is the last person I would want advice on marriage as well.

whoa, whoa... what?!

[KateHearts]

1 hour ago, nlkm9 said:

I respectfully disagree--she is WAYYY bigger than a size 8, she is a big girl, and Nick is in excellent shape--its very possible that he is not attracted to a larger woman. I can wear a size 8 and she is a good 30-40 lbs bigger than me-

Are we talking about Sonya? Good lord, you (and others) describe her as if she's massively obese!  She's petite and curvy; she is in no way a "big girl"!  Nick is not a big guy and she's shorter than him; no way would I call her "big".  At all.

58 minutes ago, Vinyasa said:

wonder if this "stranger" description  is coming from the producers. They said it ad nauseam last season.

that's because the phrase "the experiment" was completely burned out in the last two seasons.

5 hours ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

I think this is highly individual to each fur-parent.

Zalda, your post was excellent. I must, however, take issue with those who refer to themselves as a "fur parent" and their animals as "fur-babies."  Ack.

[Neurochick]

1 hour ago, nlkm9 said:

I respectfully disagree--she is WAYYY bigger than a size 8, she is a big girl, and Nick is in excellent shape--its very possible that he is not attracted to a larger woman. I can wear a size 8 and she is a good 30-40 lbs bigger than me-I know its very fashionable to be accepting of all body types, but I really think he is just completely unattracted to her(and there is nothing wrong with that--everyone has a physical type)....I sort of hope they can fall for each other, but to me the dog issue is the biggest issue here--he didnt seem to care at all that she is uncomfortable around dogs and that made me like him a lot less.

WTF?  Excuse me but Sonia does NOT look like a "big girl" to me.  I think that people today have been conditioned to think that a size 00 is normal and anything larger than a size 5 is OBESE.  No wonder women have eating disorders in this country; this policing of women's bodies has got to stop.  

But if we're going to talk about women's bodies, then we have to talk about the men and IMO, Nick is nothing to write home about; he's as bland as mayonnaise on Wonder bread as for his body?   What body?  IMO he's just "there," he's certainly no Dwayne Johnson.

Edited September 2, 2016 by Neurochick

[kira28]

I would not call Sonia fat.  She looks fine.  She's not a bikini model but she's definitely not fat.  She has, a, bigger booty but appears to have a, flat stomach and she's gorgeous.  Of the three women she definitely has, the most beautiful face.   And the nicest hair.  I could understand nick not being attracted though.  Sometimes when ppl are very into fitness and eating healthy as nick appears to be they seek out thise same traits in a partner.  I used to love nick but I do not like the dog drama.  I get that those are his babies but even if he just has, a friendship with Sonia he should be more attentive to her fear of his dogs.  I totally got what she was saying about how the dogs bark alot and she's used to quiet.  I do like dogs and grew up with several of them but since I've lived on my own I've never had a dog of my own and when I visit friends or family that have dogs the barking and rough housing and yapping annoys me. 

[Nowhere]

16 minutes ago, KateHearts said:

 

Zalda, your post was excellent. I must, however, take issue with those who refer to themselves as a "fur parent" and their animals as "fur-babies."  Ack.

Thank you. Maybe it's because I've watched Harold and Kumar Go to White Castle one time too many, but it really reminds me of when NPH said he wanted fur burgers. 

[Empress1]

20 minutes ago, nlkm9 said:

perhaps you are correct. And Im sure he is very annoyed to be matched with someone who dislikes dogs--I know I would be!!

That really is a no-win. I don't like cats. I briefly dated a man with two cats. I didn't know he had them when I met him. He adored them, which is great, but I just don't like cats and never have, and I would get irked when he'd try to get me to play with them. Us seeing each other was destined to be short (he wasn't ready to date post-divorce and I learned quickly that I didn't actually like him that much; we weren't compatible) but had we become serious, I would have had to decide if I was cool with living and caring for two cats, and the answer is very, very likely no. It doesn't make either of us bad people; it just makes us bad for each other.

And it's not just that Sonia dislikes dogs - she's afraid of them! She saw her grandmother's dog maul a kid and it scared her, and rightfully so. It's asking too much for her to just "get over" her fear of dogs and it's asking too much for him to give them up (not that she asked, but it could come to that), although I do think he should have kept them from jumping on her.

3 minutes ago, KateHearts said:

Are we talking about Sonya? Good lord, you (and others) describe her as if she's massively obese!  She's petite and curvy; she is in no way a "big girl"!  Nick is not a big guy and she's shorter than him; no way would I call her "big".  At all.

I feel like I'm watching something totally different when I see Sonia described as fat, chubby, weight out of control, etc., like there's a version of this show with a super morbidly obese woman on it that I don't get in my cable package. It kind of reminds me of this guy I went to high school with who said that there were no women over 130 pounds - like, he did not believe such a thing existed, regardless of height - and we were all like "Boy, what? Do you think breasts are weightless?"

[Gem 10]

Did I miss something here?  What's the 411 on Dr. Pepper?   Something about her leaving her husband and doing what?

[gingerandcloves]

6 hours ago, ethalfrida said:

Now that someone has mentioned being an older prospect I don't see why older participants are not recruited.

I remember a while back there was an interview with one of the Bachelor producers, who was asked why most of the people appearing on the show were so young. The one exception was when they had Byron as the Bachelor - he said that they had a terrible time casting women for Byron's season because the majority had STDs. You can take what he said with a grain of salt, but I tend to believe him.

Anyway, if MAFS tests their applicants too (I hope they do!) that could definitely be weeding out a lot of folks, especially "older" ones.

[ethalfrida]

1 minute ago, gingerandcloves said:

I remember a while back there was an interview with one of the Bachelor producers, who was asked why most of the people appearing on the show were so young. The one exception was when they had Byron as the Bachelor - he said that they had a terrible time casting women for Byron's season because the majority had STDs. You can take what he said with a grain of salt, but I tend to believe him.

Anyway, if MAFS tests their applicants too (I hope they do!) that could definitely be weeding out a lot of folks, especially "older" ones.

Jesus God!!! That is an incredible fact to unearth! But thank you for posting because it is something I am sure most of us are totally unaware of.

[BunnySlippers]

1 hour ago, KateHearts said:

Are we talking about Sonya? Good lord, you (and others) describe her as if she's massively obese!  She's petite and curvy; she is in no way a "big girl"!  Nick is not a big guy and she's shorter than him; no way would I call her "big".  At all.

 

 

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

WTF?  Excuse me but Sonia does NOT look like a "big girl" to me.  I think that people today have been conditioned to think that a size 00 is normal and anything larger than a size 5 is OBESE.  No wonder women have eating disorders in this country; this policing of women's bodies has got to stop.  

I agree with these. Sonia is not a "big girl." She's busty, but she's not fat. Definitely not obese. Not everybody can be tall and thin, and there's no reason to make people feel bad if they are not. I totally agree with Neurochick that this kind of attitude and social pressure is extremely harmful to women and it has to stop.

Also, a woman's worth is not tied to her looks and how well she can cater to her man. Just because someone is not a swimsuit model doesn't mean that a man cannot appreciate her and fall in love with her.

[LennieBriscoe]

We HAVE been talking about the men's bodies. (We've also been told to discuss this elsewhere.) FTR, I said that the women are normal, not skinny-Minnies, but look prone to weight-gain. IMO.

Long before "He's Just Not That Into You," I learned that, in relationships,  men will do what they want to do, and they won't do what they don't want to do. Nick isn't going slow; he's stopped.  He'd rather kiss the canines than smooch Sonia.  Derek is all defensive talk to save face (and maybe money). And Tom is in for the six weeks of freebies, IYKWIMAITYD.  If divorce seems imminent, none is going to start singing "Ain't Too Proud to Beg"!

Edited September 2, 2016 by LennieBriscoe

[love2lovebadtv]

On 8/17/2016 at 0:27 PM, walnutqueen said:

Before smoking was even a glint in her evil eye, she was all about the gambling (casino remark in the taxi) and "tidiness" (unpacking clothes in the hotel).  She's a Judgey McJudgerson right out of the gate, and will find anything to nitpick.

 

3 hours ago, nlkm9 said:

I respectfully disagree--she is WAYYY bigger than a size 8, she is a big girl, and Nick is in excellent shape--its very possible that he is not attracted to a larger woman. I can wear a size 8 and she is a good 30-40 lbs bigger than me-I know its very fashionable to be accepting of all body types, but I really think he is just completely unattracted to her(and there is nothing wrong with that--everyone has a physical type)....I sort of hope they can fall for each other, but to me the dog issue is the biggest issue here--he didnt seem to care at all that she is uncomfortable around dogs and that made me like him a lot less.

If Nick isn't attracted to Sonia,  I wouldn't assume it's because she's bigger than a size 8.  Just because YOU think she's big and that being a big girl is something undesirable to you doesn't mean he feels the same way. I don't know what you mean about it being fashionable to be accepting of all body types. You mentioned that Nick is in excellent shape.  Have you seen something to indicate that Sonia isn't? They have been doing the same physical activities. People are built differently even with exercise. And he looks like he does some weight training.  Not something I'd expect Sonia to do but that doesn't mean she's not also in great shape. 

My brother- in-law was visiting last time I was watching and remarked that it's too bad there are no full-figured women on the show. 

1 hour ago, Gem 10 said:

Did I miss something here?  What's the 411 on Dr. Pepper?   Something about her leaving her husband and doing what?

I've been wondering if she's happily married. I guess not.  Are any of the experts? 

Edited September 2, 2016 by love2lovebadtv

[Kiss my mutt]

I can't imagine Nick is gay and just going on this show to promote his business. When it comes out that he is gay I think he'd lose a lot of business for being dishonest. No one will want to work with an asshole like that. But, who knows?

I can't stand that pastor!  He kept badgering heather and I think she was very wise in saying she needs to sleep on it and that now when she is at her most frazzled is not the time to make a big decision like that. Most counsellors know that. 

When Pastor said everyone has the same kinds of problems that Derrick and Hearher have I had to scoff.  Not all couples have the type of problems they have because presumably there is some initial attraction that brings them together. Even if it wanes you have history to build on. Not everyone goes through contempt and juvenile behavior and possible drug use or major value differences from the get go. Admittedly, some do but to make it sound like their problems are typical of married couples is bs. 

[Snarklepuss]

3 hours ago, Neurochick said:

WTF?  Excuse me but Sonia does NOT look like a "big girl" to me.  I think that people today have been conditioned to think that a size 00 is normal and anything larger than a size 5 is OBESE.  No wonder women have eating disorders in this country; this policing of women's bodies has got to stop. 

ITA, BTW I thought Sonia looked especially petite and slim in this episode.  No way would she be able to wear those outfits and look so cute in them if she were larger than size 8.  I know very well what a size 8 looks like and trust me, she's it.  Plus let's not forget that the camera adds a good 10-20 lbs.  I posted a photo of myself on another show's board about a month or so ago that was taken when I was a size 8, and I think I look heavier than Sonia in them!   Some people just do not have the bone structure like the long lanky women who become models and actresses but cute, sexy and petite women like Sonia are IMO more feminine and more attractive than a lot of those models.  In my opinion of course!   Petite women are proportioned differently than taller women.  That has an affect on their appearance.  Not every man loves a petite woman but I notice that a lot of them on TV get branded as "overweight" when they are just shapely, not heavy.  Rachael Ray was a size 6 and people were calling her "fat".  Well, she is heavier now but even 10 years ago people were calling her fat when she was really just curvy and petite.

Not to get too far OT, but I really don't think it's just women anymore that suffer from female body dysmorphia.  All the emaciated models and TV/movie stars have distorted men's perceptions too, IMHO.  BTW, when I was a petite and curvy size 8 (and even a 10 or 12) I had absolutely NO trouble attracting men, and I'm not saying that to boast but make a point that thankfully a lot of men are not affected by this change in perception.  Before menopause I had to peel the men off of me - I think I had that certain "waist-hip ratio" that worked on their subconscious, LOL.  Of course I'm 58 now and it's not like that anymore!

That said, Nick is one of those long/lanky men but he may actually prefer an "opposite" type.  Mr. Snarkle has light hair and that kind of athletic physique but has always been attracted to short, curvy brunettes.  Hopefully Nick is like that.  He has yet to show us his cards.  I can't help but think he's hiding something because he seems to be playing it too close to the vest.  I think it was in this episode when he said he wanted to have sex with Sonia but when the time was right.  I can't really buy that completely when he says it in such a monotone.  I would expect there to be some enthusiasm behind the statement.  So I don't know what's wrong there, but it seems strange and my jury is still out on how honest he's being with the camera when his body language doesn't add up.

Edited September 2, 2016 by Snarklepuss