S04.E05: Honeymoons, Part 2

[psychoticstate]

Despite Derek's comment, I'm not ready to crucify him yet.  I won't jump on board the train that he feels this way about all women because I'm not in a position to say that the comment was an accurate reflection of how he feels about all women. 

I'll be the first to admit that I haven't cared much for Heather since the wedding episodes.  I think she may have found Derek reasonably attractive at the wedding and was relieved about that but she put those walls up almost immediately.  If pot smoking was/is indeed the issue, maybe Derek lit up during the reception and she got pissed.  

I think Heather's biggest problem, besides putting the walls up, is that she gets angry or resentful and doesn't communicate to Derek why.  At least not quickly enough.  

I understand Derek's frustration - - based on his THs he wasn't necessarily expecting a sex filled romp with Heather on the honeymoon but I think he was at least expecting to have fun with her and get to know her.  She didn't even friend zone him, she just shut him out.  It's very telling that he said that he could have come to Puerto Rico with his buddies; she didn't need to be there.  The same could be said that she could have traveled to PR without him.  Saying that he didn't ride bikes as often as she did as an "excuse" for why she was riding out ahead of him just doesn't cut it.  Same as saying that she was concerned about people waiting behind them to go in the cave.  It's clear that she doesn't want to spend time with him or be around him unless she's drunk.  She's said once or twice that the attraction isn't there for her and I think because of that, she's written him off. 

For those reasons I feel sorry for him.  It does seem like he was attracted to her and excited about the prospect but her attitude has really kind of diminished him.  Maybe his reaction to the surf instructor was blown out of proportion but I think it was more the contradiction of what he perceived she said to him and watching her seem more comfortable with some man she just met versus the man she is married to.  

Again, I feel sorry for Derek.  He probably would have had more fun spending those days with an absolute stranger he met at the airport versus with Heather.  Crap, even David and Ashley seemed more relaxed and comfortable with each other by the end of their honeymoon than these two and we know what happened there.

I feel good for Sonia and Nick.  These two are a good example of how Heather and Derek should have progressed.  They are getting to know each other; they have had a disagreement but after taking some time out to think and cool down, addressed it and moved forward.  They are competitive in a fun, friendly way and are more focused on enjoying the time than "making memories."  I guess it would be safe to say that although they are married, they are dating.

Lily and Tom continue their cuteness.  They are cleared thrilled with each other and I hope it lasts. 

Next week it appears that Heather may jettison the entire thing - - although I suspect if she does she won't get paid so that may be incentive enough to hang in for another 5 weeks.  Lily doesn't seem to be too upset about the bus so that was likely producer manipulation.  Sonia appears a bit freaked by Nick's dogs.

Also want to say that I really like and appreciate the new counselor, or whatever he is.  He really didn't pull punches.

[Vinyasa]

Quote

Yes! Couldn't the production company have sprung for three damned suites? Or at least rooms with two beds and a table. Having to eat on an ironing board? Come on.

Oh, I noticed that also. Nothing against the Courtyard Marriott, but is that the best they could get for the honeymoon?

Jason and Courtney got the trip to Hawaii and the presidential suite with 7, (count 'em 7) balconies.  It wasn't their honeymoon but can't they get some nicer accommodations for the hotel promos??

[Neurochick]

1 hour ago, henrysmom said:

Nick and Sonia.  I don't know, I like them.  I like him, I like her, I like them together.  Maybe it is because I'm older but I don't necessarily read gay or friend zone into the fact that a man doesn't want to sleep with somebody he almost literally just met.  There are men like that out there and they tend to make really great husbands so I'm still seeing potential here.

Thank you.  I mean just because a man doesn't want to fuck you at first sight, doesn't mean he's gay or not into you.  Maybe he's waiting to make sure you're not a crazy stalker type.  

I attribute Nick's demeanor, especially when dancing, to nerves.  The guy probably can't dance and doesn't want to look like an uncoordinated white boy on camera, and I thought it was embarrassing when the dance instructors put Nick's hands on Sonia's body; not cool IMO.  Just because a man is uncomfortable on camera doesn't make him gay.  I don't know when it happened that people have become put into tiny boxes, today it seems like.  "If a man is ____ then they're abusive," even though you've only known someone for five minutes, or "If a man doesn't want to fuck you on sight, he's gay," even if you just met,  WTF?  You know, that used to be what a lot of men used to say about women who didn't want to sleep with them when they wanted sex.  "You must be a lesbian if you don't want me."  Huh?   I think Nick is VERY conscious of the cameras, to the point it seems, to me like he's scared of them. 

People can get angry without being abusive, people can not want to touch at first sight without being gay. 
 

Edited August 24, 2016 by Neurochick

[numbnut]

14 hours ago, Gem 10 said:

Tom & Lily are just adorable together.  They are at ease and playful and had a great honeymoon .. Good for them.  I actually don't think the bus will be a problem.  If they care for each other, they will work it out.  I don't think the bus will be a deal breaker.  Love comes first.

I can see the bus being a roadblock because of Lily's comment about sharing and building trust. She may feel betrayed and wonder what else he's hiding.

[SillyOldClothCat]

Someone noticed the "me and Tom" thing last week, so that this week, I could've counted them.  It's like a speech impediment - once you've heard it, it gets stuck and it's ALL you hear.  And whoever mentioned that Derrek does the same: Thanks.  Now I'll hear that next week.  Here's what I noticed (all by myself!): Derek refers to Heather constantly as "THIS girl".  Like he doesn't even feel comfortable enough with her to use her name.

ETA: I want to add that, as a mother of a U.S. Marine, don't put too much stock in that whole neatness thing.  They are well trained to be neat and tidy on base, and on duty.  They are all about rules, and they know how to follow them ("Are we clear?  Are we clear???"  Crystal). And I'll admit his appearance is forever and always clipped and tidy.  He looks like a Marine in civilian clothes.  His demeanor is not exactly aggressive, but self confident and assured.  Decisive.  Almost commanding.  But he's still a slob in his own house.  Just saying.

As the wife of a Marine, I thoroughly agree with you statement. I asked my husband once what happened to all that hard work and training to keep everything around him straight?? He said it was a lot of hard work, and he isn't at work now. He did, however, maintain the self-confidence and commanding attitude he gained from serving with the USMC.

[WichitaStateShock]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Nick is just like my husband. My husband waited until I made the moves on him to have sex which was 3 months into dating. He said to me that he doesn't ever want me or the women he was with prior to our marriage to feel pressured to do things we didn't want to do so he waited for the woman to make the move. He also is extremely thoughtful about how moving too fast etc can harm a relationship so he wanted to build a friendship first. Trust me my husband is not gay or bi nor was I ever in the friend zone with him. He treats me with respect which is what I believe Nick is doing. 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Do Derek And Heather Really Hate Each Other, Or Are They Just Playing To Married At First Sight's Cameras?

And more questions sparked by 'Honeymoons, Part 2'!

[Evil Queen]

This has been mentioned a couple times now but where is it that these people only get paid if they make it until the end? I know amounts have been thrown around in the past as well but no one has proved what it is at this point or if they only get paid if they make it to the end or anything else. I think its more the contract they sign that makes them have to stay and not be able to just walk out. Otherwise if that wasn't the case I think Ashley would have been out the door asap if she could have. 

4 minutes ago, WichitaStateShock said:

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Nick is just like my husband. My husband waited until I made the moves on him to have sex which was 3 months into dating. He said to me that he doesn't ever want me or the women he was with prior to our marriage to feel pressured to do things we didn't want to do so he waited for the woman to make the move. He also is extremely thoughtful about how moving too fast etc can harm a relationship so he wanted to build a friendship first. Trust me my husband is not gay or bi nor was I ever in the friend zone with him. He treats me with respect which is what I believe Nick is doing. 

With this was their chemistry there though beforehand? I am just not seeing anything between Nick and Sonia at all. There isn't even a glimmer of a spark showing. I do think he is gay or maybe bi but I just see nothing there relationship ways between them on his side of things. With this show I think taking the sex part slow is best since they just meet at the alter but there is no reason they couldn't hold hands, hug, kiss (not like the awkward forced ones), etc. There really isn't any of that there with them. There are moments that even a new couple would kiss during and they are not at all. There are many forced upon them ones because of others egging them on to. Those are just awkward like. 

[bichonblitz]

I just can't believe that out of 30,000 applicants, (yes, they did say 30,000) the best they could do was Nick, who is scared to death of everything and Heather who is, well, a bitch. And yea, something tells me Heather is very familiar with beer bongs. 

As for Lily and Tom, I think she is going to be more pissed that he didn't tell her flat out where he lived and how he lived, than the actual living on the bus. The guy needs to man up and tell her instead of beating around the bush , then driving up to his castle and wham! Surprise! Honey,  we're home! Right now she is probably thinking that if he lives 5 minutes from the beach as he said, he must have a killer home in a very upscale area of Miami.  Not good, Tom. Not good. 

[WichitaStateShock]

2 minutes ago, Evil Queen said:

 

With this was their chemistry there though beforehand? I am just not seeing anything between Nick and Sonia at all. There isn't even a glimmer of a spark showing. I do think he is gay or maybe bi but I just see nothing there relationship ways between them on his side of things. With this show I think taking the sex part slow is best since they just meet at the alter but there is no reason they couldn't hold hands, hug, kiss (not like the awkward forced ones), etc. There really isn't any of that there with them. There are moments that even a new couple would kiss during and they are not at all. There are many forced upon them ones because of others egging them on to. Those are just awkward like. 

Was there chemistry? Yes but it was definitely a mental connection first. My husband was never one to display his affection. I really took control and was assertive. Now he holds hands all the time, probably more than most couples. Kiss probably 40 times a day and always cuddle. We had to adapt to each other even though mentally we were definitely the right fit. Adapting took a while which they don't have the time in this situation. 

[Nowhere]

For all the grammar nazi's, another thing that bothers me is when they say for example,

"Heather and I's wedding"

"Nick and I's honeymoon"

I'm hearing it more and more often on reality shows and it physically pains me. It's incorrect, right? It should be, "Heather's and my wedding", or simply, "Our wedding". 

[numbnut]

9 minutes ago, Nowhere said:

For all the grammar nazi's, another thing that bothers me is when they say for example,

"Heather and I's wedding"

"Nick and I's honeymoon"

I'm hearing it more and more often on reality shows and it physically pains me. It's incorrect, right? It should be, "Heather's and my wedding", or simply, "Our wedding". 

Yeah, just use the pronoun alone in the sentence to find the correct match. My honeymoon + His honeymoon = His and my honeymoon. Though most would use "our." It's the "me and him like to..." sentences that bug me the most.

[Jack Sampson]

3 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

Did some Googling about medical school in Nicaragua and came up with this link  for you to read if you wish.

Sit back because the font is big and bold and may will bump against your eyeballs.

http://www.vidavolunteer.org/blog/inside-perspective-medical-school-in-nicaragua

Lily applied and entered med school from high school eliminating the 4 years needed to get a BS before you apply to med school which is the process in the US.

From the link:

Quote

I think Medicine in Nicaragua differs from the United States and Canada in many ways.

You're not kidding there, sweetheart.

I'd consider this more of a medical technical college or a nursing program.  And remind me to never use a "doctor" from Nicaragua! 

[Enero]

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

I attribute Nick's demeanor, especially when dancing, to nerves.  The guy probably can't dance and doesn't want to look like an uncoordinated white boy on camera, and I thought it was embarrassing when the dance instructors put Nick's hands on Sonia's body; not cool IMO.  Just because a man is uncomfortable on camera doesn't make him gay.  I don't know when it happened that people have become put into tiny boxes, today it seems like.  "If a man is ____ then they're abusive," even though you've only known someone for five minutes, or "If a man doesn't want to fuck you on sight, he's gay," even if you just met,  WTF?  You know, that used to be what a lot of men used to say about women who didn't want to sleep with them when they wanted sex.  "You must be a lesbian if you don't want me."  Huh?   I think Nick is VERY conscious of the cameras, to the point it seems, to me like he's scared of them. 

People can get angry without being abusive, people can not want to touch at first sight without being gay. 
 

For me it's not the lack of sex or his desire to have it, it's as Evil Queen said he's not showing ANY affection which would IMO indicate that he doesn't have romantic feelings for her. They started off well enough at the wedding, holding hands even a few kisses that weren't forced on them by observers. They kissed twice in their hotel room after the wedding. They get to the honeymoon and hold hands the first day/night after that what little affection he was showing has fallen by the way.

Maybe he backed off because Sonia felt uncomfortable and cried during their talk with Rachel and is now afraid to make a move? But it's just kind of strange now. Even when they "woke up" at the start of last night's episode Sonia's body language was leaning away from him and of course throughout the episode he was just awkward. Sooo...I don't know. I think they like each other but I don't know if there's an attraction there from him. 

Edited August 24, 2016 by Enero

[Lily247]

13 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

If Derek were half the man he wishes he was his ego would never have been so bruised that he would ever make a comment like that.  Being rejected doesn't give him license to insult all women and if he had any sense at all he would never utter crap like that on camera. 

Contrast him with Neil from last season -  Despite all the ridiculous crap Neil took from Sam, never ONCE did he lower himself to make such a classless comment about women in general or I'm sure it would have ended up on TV.  And I don't even put Heather in the same category with Sam by a long shot. 

I'm beginning to see what Heather saw about Derek from the start that she revealed in her argument with him about what he does being "low class".  He just IS low class and she had his number from day one.  Her comment about being mentally and physically exhausted said it all. She risked a LOT to find love and THIS is what they thought she should be matched with?  I'd be insulted if I were her.  And Pastor Calvin seems to be putting it all on her.  What a cop out - once again the "experts" don't want to take responsibility for having made bad matches and instead blame the participants.

From what we are seeing, I disagree. I don't think Heather is any classier than Derek, a superiority complex can't hide that. Derek seems like the type of person who smiles easily and is friendly, to a point. From the way she was chanting "chug it" I get the feeling that she is an experienced boozer. Neil from last season was so soooo passive, even Sam told him she is used to guys who act more aggressively. I think Derek's age comment was coming from a place of hurt - and yes, many men do have fragile egos and I don't think it's okay to exhibit such rudeness like Heather has. 

[kira28]

15 hours ago, Magoo said:

My middle finger shot straight up at the TV when Derek went on his fragile ego-crushed rant about heather's age. What. An. Asshole. "She's not attracted to me, wah!   I never liked her anyway. Did not! No really!  And..and...and she's old! Like icky spoiled milk! and she's not even my type, no matter how many times I said the opposite" ::foot stomp::  At the end he seemed to catch himself and realize what a shit he was being and he was lashing out because his feelings were hurt that she wasn't into him. But the damage is done. He said those things. No more sympathy from me. Jerk. 

Yes yes yes! Totally agree.  Derrick is very immature.  Heather was spot on when she said it was like arguing with a teenage boy.. Derrick has constantly talked about how attractive he thinks Heather is.  He was so immature and ridiculous about her "flirting" with the surf instructor. Now I hated Ashley with a passion but I feel bad for Heather and totally understand why she's so angry.  I think Derrick is used to one night stands and just assumed they would have sex on their honeymoon and that was part of his frustration. After his angry outburst and insulting comments I'd be done. 

Love love nick and Sonia.  If Sonia doesn't want him IL take him lol.  He's quiet and introverted but I get him and his sense of humor.  I think he takes things slow but of all the guys I think he's the most thoughtful.  He's always keeping an eye out when they do activities to make sure Sonia is OK.  He admitted his love language is gift giving so that's probably why he's not giving her verbal compliments.  I don't blame him for not having sex in a week. I'm scared that they are going to go down in flames though because they are so cute together.  I think Sonia is the most attractive woman there.  She's gorgeous.  Though Heather has the nicest body.

Not much to say about Tom and lily except I want to go riding on the beach.  I hope she's not too disillusioned by the bus.  

[StayingAfterSunday]

37 minutes ago, kat12379 said:

From what we are seeing, I disagree. I don't think Heather is any classier than Derek, a superiority complex can't hide that. Derek seems like the type of person who smiles easily and is friendly, to a point. From the way she was chanting "chug it" I get the feeling that she is an experienced boozer. Neil from last season was so soooo passive, even Sam told him she is used to guys who act more aggressively. I think Derek's age comment was coming from a place of hurt - and yes, many men do have fragile egos and I don't think it's okay to exhibit such rudeness like Heather has. 

I agree with you that Heather is not classier than Derek.  A classy person makes an effort not to offend others, demonstrating "The Golden Rule" even when he or she doesn't feel like doing so.  Heather doesn't care whether she offends. She does what she wants and caves in to her own moods,  as depicted in the "cave" scene with Derek on last night's episode.  The only times she expends any true effort are the times when she is trying to construct plausible reasons (excuses)  for her rudeness towards Derek.  Heather will always direct her energies at dismissing her own faults and highlighting the other person's shortcomings.  Case in point: The now infamous "weed" issue. Heather sat there pompously pointing out Derek's aggregious breach of good behavior while she freely imbibed alcohol. I think she did this to divert the attention from her own failing.  Once again, the scapegoating method is in play. Surely not a "class act." 

Derek, on the other hand, is very articulate and expresses his thoughts (and feelings) extremely well; better yet, he's speaking truthfully - from his heart.  So far, just about everything he's said about Heather's attitudes and behavior towards him have made perfect sense and have not been twisted or manipulated. I can't believe anyone could listen to him and not feel empathy.  I feel as you do, Kat12379, i.e. that Derek feels hurt by Heather's actions.  I sincerely feel sorry for him, as he got the short end of the straw in this "experiment" (I hate that word ). 

Edited August 24, 2016 by StayingAfterSunday

[rudy10]

I am not understanding all the hate for Heather.  Its a real step backwards for feminism if she is being criticized for "not being feminine enough" or "not looking her best (no makeup and baggy pants) for her husband".  I don't understand why she's labeled a bitch either.  I thought she was being direct and honest when she described her uncomfortableness and apprehension toward Derek's pot smoking.  So just because a woman doesn't sugar coat or go above and beyond to protect a man's very fragile feelings, she's a bitch? It's not her fault Derek gets super defensive about criticisms and that he has barely noticed any of Heather's nonverbal cues relating to it.  Heather seems very thoughtful and rational in her talking heads and shes most likely a very friendly person or very good a faking it to have a career as a flight attendant.  As shown in the chugging scene it also seems like she has a sharp wit and a sense of humor.  To me it seems like Heather and Derek are not intellectually compatible and I know if that were me I would also check out.  Derek seems to focus too much on the physical ("its been 5 days and she won't hold my hand") instead of working on the emotional connection.  Also, seems pretty lame to go on a vacation with someone and choose an activity (smoke weed) only one partner wants to do regardless of your opinion of it.

[Magoo]

4 hours ago, Happyfatchick said:

Here's what I noticed (all by myself!): Derek refers to Heather constantly as "THIS girl".  Like he doesn't even feel comfortable enough with her to use her name.

I noticed that, too.  It's like she's not even a person to him, just THIS girl (this dog, this table, this coffee pot).  I was giving him a pass for the first few episodes, but he's now showing his true colors.  He sounded sad when he said every relationship he's ever had has ended (badly?), but to me there's no longer a question as to why. 

[Lily247]

4 minutes ago, rudy10 said:

Yes, I agree about the feminist thing to a point but for one's husband/partner on their honeymoon I think it doesn't make sense to not try to look cute. I'm not talking about judt dolling yourself up, u the manner in which she walks, talks, acts seems fairly brusque.  I think in order to attract a typical guy (such as Derek) it is more attractive to act feminine-ly (?). While it is obivous Derek is wrong for Heather, I think she is wrong for him as well. ALso, I do not believe he is smoking weed in PR and saying he is is just a presumption. How could he even get on the flight with a bag of drugs ? Lol. I still belive it is ciggs.  Lots of cigarette smokers smoke first thing in the morning so thats what it appears to be to me. The only thing wrong with Derek IMO besides that are the ugly tats. 

[Vinyasa]

Quote

The only thing wrong with Derek IMO besides that are the ugly tats

I'm sure there is a question about tattoo preferences from all these "experts".  Since Heather has one, I'm sure she said tattoos are ok. Maybe she did expect so many?? or so many weird ones??

Edited August 24, 2016 by Vinyasa

[Magoo]

19 minutes ago, kat12379 said:

I think in order to attract a typical guy (such as Derek) it is more attractive to act feminine-ly (?).

I agree basic grooming habits like showering, clean clothes/fingernails and brushing teeth are important (and deal breakers).  I'd also include good table manner and manners in general.  But how feminine one "should" act is purely subjective.  I'd much rather be myself and alone than have to conform to someone's idea of femininity in order for them to be attracted to me. 

[roguery]

What is wrong with "me and Tom?"  You insist on "Tom and me?"  Aren't you nitpicking a little?  Guess putting oneself first is maybe self-centered...but not grammatically incorrect.  On the other hand, if one (and I am using 'one' in order to be grammatically accurate) uses the "I" or "me" first, one is more likely to select the correct personal pronoun.  My personal peeve is the use of "I" when "me" would have been the correct choice.  

Excuse me if now I am nitpicking!  

When using Tom and me as the subject of the sentence, it is not correct to say "Me and Tom had fun" ; it is also not correct to say Tom and me had fun."You wouldn't say "Me had fun." You WOULD say, "He gave it to Tom and me." You shouldn't say, "He gave it to Tom and I," although many people do say this to try to sound erudite. Test the construct by saying, "He gave it to I."

[Evil Queen]

Just now, Magoo said:

I agree basic grooming habits like showering, clean clothes/fingernails and brushing teeth are important (and deal breakers).  I'd also include good table manner and manners in general.  But how feminine one "should" act is purely subjective.  I'd much rather be myself and alone than have to conform to someone's idea of femininity in order for them to be attracted to me. 

Agree!! I am not a makeup girl at all. So it bugs me when I see people say how we should be putting it on to look good or impress whoever. Why when its not who I am? Maybe Heather gets tired of it if she is wearing it during her job. I don't get putting it on every day and all day. I have a friend that puts it on even if she is at home and I just don't see the point to it at all. My husband meet me with how I looked everyday in life. Yet here we are 15 1/2 yrs later and 17 yrs together total. I think when people say we should do this or that it ends up not being true to who you are if its not your normal self. We can "be cute" without the make up and nice clothes and just slap on some comfy clothes instead. Which I know that being a non makeup person and having waited on my friend to put all her layers on over the years was a pain for me, I can't imagine what a pain it is for her husband or any man that deals with that. Its very high maintenance in the end. Which if Heather had dolled herself up people still would have called her a bitch I am sure and in turn probably made comments on her makeup/outfits. I don't think she would win either way she did things though with those that don't like her. I know, for myself, I am so glad my husband doesn't have the attitude that I should doll myself up every time we leave the house or are even just sitting around the house and that I am able to just be comfy. As is he.

  Which btw, if people are going to give her crap why not Derek's clothes than too? He isn't exactly running around in clothes to make an impression. Those tank tops are horrible IMO and ugly. Plus he seems to be wearing swim trunks all the time in the scenes. While I doubt the tattoos are what turned Heather off, they are just some ugly and badly done ones. I doubt since she has one that she would care if her husband did but damn he should have put thought into them before doing just whatever mishmash. 

48 minutes ago, Magoo said:

I noticed that, too.  It's like she's not even a person to him, just THIS girl (this dog, this table, this coffee pot).  I was giving him a pass for the first few episodes, but he's now showing his true colors.  He sounded sad when he said every relationship he's ever had has ended (badly?), but to me there's no longer a question as to why. 

This right here...Its pretty dismissive doing that. I agree there are many things we have seen so far that I think explain why he wasn't married yet. He is very man child like IMO. 

[bichonblitz]

1 hour ago, rudy10 said:

Also, seems pretty lame to go on a vacation with someone and choose an activity (smoke weed) only one partner wants to do regardless of your opinion of it.

We don't know if he was smoking weed so don't assume. 

 

1 hour ago, rudy10 said:

So just because a woman doesn't sugar coat or go above and beyond to protect a man's very fragile feelings, she's a bitch? 

I can't speak for any one else, my problem with Heather is her attitude. No, she doesn't have to sugar coat or protect his fragile feelings but she should treat him with some respect just the way any human being would want to be treated. I mean, really, what the hell did Derek do to her ? If smoking is all it takes to set her off and turn her off, then, yes, in my eyes she's a bitch. 

Edited August 24, 2016 by bichonblitz

[ioniancat21]

Derek and Heather will clearly implode first so let's get started!!! Heather is not as great as she thinks she is and she deserves the bad press she's getting from the viewers. Derek does have some immature qualities but he speaks about his emotional state very well and I appreciate that. He needed a much more easy going gal, not what he got. Heather is a stewardess and many that I've known are similar to Heather, looks oriented. Her job values her similarly on her looks.

Sonia and Nick are also going to have some trouble down the road as well. Nick isn't the most aggressive male and Sonia is overly emotional so you know that will be a trouble source.

Tom and Lillian seem to have the healthiest of the marriages but I'm unsure if their physical connection can carry them to long lasting love.

This show overall will end in disaster in most cases, part of the fun in watching. Most of these people are far too young in my opinion to have to go this far to secure a partner that is husband material so their desperation for marriage is their undoing in the end. I personally would never entertain this personally regardless of money. Successful relationships in most cases can't be built like this. More time is needed and part of the cycle of marriage is dating and engagement and they miss these two important phases and it makes success here very difficult, but the calamity is what brings us here!!

[Empress1]

2 minutes ago, Evil Queen said:

Agree!! I am not a makeup girl at all. So it bugs me when I see people say how we should be putting it on to look good or impress whoever. Why when its not who I am? Maybe Heather gets tired of it if she is wearing it during her job. I don't get putting it on every day and all day. I have a friend that puts it on even if she is at home and I just don't see the point to it at all. My husband meet me with how I looked everyday in life. Yet here we are 15 1/2 yrs later and 17 yrs together total. I think when people say we should do this or that it ends up not being true to who you are if its not your normal self. We can "be cute" without the make up and nice clothes and just slap on some comfy clothes instead. Which I know that being a non makeup person and having waited on my friend to put all her layers on over the years was a pain for me, I can't imagine what a pain it is for her husband or any man that deals with that. Its very high maintenance in the end. Which if Heather had dolled herself up people still would have called her a bitch I am sure and in turn probably made comments on her makeup/outfits. I don't think she would win either way she did things though with those that don't like her. I know, for myself, I am so glad my husband doesn't have the attitude that I should doll myself up every time we leave the house or are even just sitting around the house and that I am able to just be comfy. As is he.

  Which btw, if people are going to give her crap why not Derek's clothes than too? He isn't exactly running around in clothes to make an impression. Those tank tops are horrible IMO and ugly. Plus he seems to be wearing swim trunks all the time in the scenes. While I doubt the tattoos are what turned Heather off, they are just some ugly and badly done ones. I doubt since she has one that she would care if her husband did but damn he should have put thought into them before doing just whatever mishmash. 

They're on a beach vacation. Heather's had on a bathing suit under her clothes in a bunch of the scenes - I'm pretty sure she had one on under her blue halter dress (I thought the dress was cute) when she and Derek were Skyping with the pastor. Their hotel apparently has a pool and hot tub in addition to the beach. When I'm at the beach, I'm in a bathing suit most of the time because if there's water, I'm in it. My beach vacation attire is bathing suit under casual clothes or a coverup during the day (and very, very little makeup - either none at all or a swipe or two of waterproof mascara), and dresses (and makeup) at night. I wouldn't wear one to dinner or to do an activity where there is no water in sight, like riding ATVs (I'd need a real bra for that!), but it's not weird to me that he's in swim trunks at the beach.

[Evil Queen]

4 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

They're on a beach vacation. Heather's had on a bathing suit under her clothes in a bunch of the scenes - I'm pretty sure she had one on under her blue halter dress (I thought the dress was cute) when she and Derek were Skyping with the pastor. Their hotel apparently has a pool and hot tub in addition to the beach. When I'm at the beach, I'm in a bathing suit most of the time because if there's water, I'm in it. My beach vacation attire is bathing suit under casual clothes or a coverup during the day (and very, very little makeup - either none at all or a swipe or two of waterproof mascara), and dresses (and makeup) at night. I wouldn't wear one to dinner or to do an activity where there is no water in sight, like riding ATVs (I'd need a real bra for that!), but it's not weird to me that he's in swim trunks at the beach.

Sure its fine if they are going to spend all the time in the water or on the beach and the same with the swimsuits for her but some keep saying she needs to do doll it up or dress nicer or whatever else on her looks/clothes that has been said but my point was the same should go for him. Nice shorts instead when not going to the beach/water and no ugly tanks and no hat indoors (more so backwards).  Why is it she has to do all this stuff but its ok for him to slack off? 

[Vinyasa]

Quote

Maybe they need to not have legal marriages and save the license for when the experiment ends and they truly feel ready.

The legal marriage is what makes this show interesting.

Otherwise, it might as well be Bachelor in Paradise.

[Jack Sampson]

1 minute ago, Vinyasa said:

The legal marriage is what makes this show interesting.

Otherwise, it might as well be Bachelor in Paradise.

MAFS - The Bachelor Edition.

If you brought in Ashley I. - the one who always cries - I'd watch that show religiously. 

[ctbabe]

4 minutes ago, Vinyasa said:

The legal marriage is what makes this show interesting.

Otherwise, it might as well be Bachelor in Paradise.

The legal marriage is forcing the couples to TRY. I am sure Derek and Heather would have moved on if they were not married. 

[Lily247]

24 minutes ago, Evil Queen said:

Sure its fine if they are going to spend all the time in the water or on the beach and the same with the swimsuits for her but some keep saying she needs to do doll it up or dress nicer or whatever else on her looks/clothes that has been said but my point was the same should go for him. Nice shorts instead when not going to the beach/water and no ugly tanks and no hat indoors (more so backwards).  Why is it she has to do all this stuff but its ok for him to slack off? 

I didnt mean that she needs to dress nicer or wear makeup. I meant that in general, the way she carries herself and behaves is not "soft and feminine". There is more to feminity than  wearing makeup. A lot of men would prefer a woman who carries herself like.... a woman

[Stillhoping]

I guess watching awkward mismatches is more entertaining than a couple who seem to be hitting it off and are attracted to each other and following through in a natural way?                           I liked that Tom has tried to know Lilly...i loved when he pointed out the purple in the restaurant cause she likes purple.                                                           -------Nick and Sonia seem nicer than some other past couples but yes awkward. I think he may be very conservative...remember his bachelor party he didnt want strippers etc. Either super shy or super conservative or religious.....or...gay. I hope he isnt doing a Rock Hudson here...haha.       -------Heather seemed to try in the beginning...maybe he stinks? Smoker breath....clothes with the smell of smoke ...? Pot would be even worse...ugh. Added to that Dereck has a smarmy attitude as if he expected instant attraction. His nasty cracks about age jusr show a real vindictive side.   While I hope to see people try on this show I dont feel miffed if the woman doesnt want to Ummm...consumate things. I cant fault Nick but it does make ya wonder?  My faves atr Tom and Lilly and I think they are young enough and will have a real bond that will make the bus a non factor. They are giving a Jason Courtney vibe and I am rootong for them. 

[Passthepopcorn]

Derek and Heather: If the bike ride was hard to watch, this was hell on earth. They bring the worst of each other. His age comment was awful but she is impossible to be around. She is not old, but she is acting old, well not old, dead. I'm surprised it took him this long to give up trying and get hit by her coldness.. She is also acting like a teen would act if her mother makes her go places with her 10 year old brother. Annoyed no end, rolling eyes, huffing and puffing (He ruins everything!), I doubt she'll ever see him as a man.  She flat doesn't like him in any way and the walls are high up and reinforced. Not a hint of hope or chance for romance. She sleeps miles away, walks in different directions, wears buggy clothes and sun glasses even indoors, has no problem being physically close to another guy (I think it was on purpose) all signs of "don't get close to me, don't dare think about it". She's decided to do her own thing, since they are in PR and might as well enjoy it, but doesn't tell him she is done, which I find quite cynical. The last night was pathetic and sad. The only time we've seen her light up a bit and it was because she was drowning in wine and misery. Bad, bad energy. They are wasting their time.

[StayingAfterSunday]

1 hour ago, roguery said:

When using Tom and me as the subject of the sentence, it is not correct to say "Me and Tom had fun" ; it is also not correct to say Tom and me had fun."You wouldn't say "Me had fun." You WOULD say, "He gave it to Tom and me." You shouldn't say, "He gave it to Tom and I," although many people do say this to try to sound erudite. Test the construct by saying, "He gave it to I."

It really drives me crazy to hear that last one (a preposition followed by first person pronoun or whatever it is!).  You're right, also, about people thinking that it makes them sound more educated/erudite to say "between him and I," instead of the correct, "between him and me."  

I know.  The topic is OFF-topic, I guess, and I'm guilty.  I also need to get a life.

[Racj82]

I'll be honest, I've reached the line where I just don't get offended by what people write, say or whatever in the world. Maybe if it's something really toxic but even then it doesn't upset me much.

It's always easy for me to watch from afar and say what I would do or what someone else should do. But, I'm not them so I can only judge so much. If I judged everyone I know by the worst things they've said in the heat of the moment I would very few people around me. Everyone's knows what you should be doing in terms of right and what's wrong but we don't always practice the right way  (talking in general terms)

Thinking about it even more, I feel like Derrick is feeling so rejected and low at this time in the show that he wants her to feel that same feeling but he can't do it in any other way but words because she's doesn't really give a damn about him. It's low. It's petty. It's uncalled for. Yes, of course it is. But, most people have been there. You lash back. You speak besides your general character. Not to say that Derrick is surely this great guy. He's went to low blow route one too many times for my liking. Maybe Heather would drive me to that as well. But, I'm just saying I don't support it but I get it. 

But, this matchup is toxic and bringing out the worst in both of them. Being on tv doesn't just make someone do and say all the right things. They are still human beings. 

Man, this dumb reality show generates a odd amount of interesting discussions. 

[IvySpice]

I am a total grammar/punctuation Nazi, but non-native speakers of English get a pass from me. Lillian grew up speaking Spanish, right?

[Lily247]

2 hours ago, Magoo said:

I agree basic grooming habits like showering, clean clothes/fingernails and brushing teeth are important (and deal breakers).  I'd also include good table manner and manners in general.  But how feminine one "should" act is purely subjective.  I'd much rather be myself and alone than have to conform to someone's idea of femininity in order for them to be attracted to me. 

I would say not getting excessively drunk and chanting "chug it chug it" like a frat boy ... again, it IS subjective, you are right. But I stronly feel that if Heathe toned herself down a little, smiled more, she would be in a relationship at this age. 

[Evil Queen]

46 minutes ago, kat12379 said:

I didnt mean that she needs to dress nicer or wear makeup. I meant that in general, the way she carries herself and behaves is not "soft and feminine". There is more to feminity than  wearing makeup. A lot of men would prefer a woman who carries herself like.... a woman

I am curious what is "soft and feminine" to you? 

 

31 minutes ago, Passthepopcorn said:

 wears buggy clothes and sun glasses even indoors,

Yet he is running around in crappy tanks and his hat on not only indoors but backwards....For the most part I don't see her clothes looking baggy (assuming it was suppose to be that and not buggy..lol). I had thought she had the sunglasses on trying to hid her eyes for some reason. We have no clue why they were on. Heck all the lights from being filmed in a small space and I would put mine on actually. So it could have been the lights. 

[Lily247]

Just now, Evil Queen said:

I am curious what is "soft and feminine" to you?

To me, it is the way a woman carries herself, the way she speaks, including the language she uses. To not appear overly aggressive also. Compare with Sonia and Lilly - they are more girlish/womanly from their natural demeanor

[psychoticstate]

I don't think there is anything wrong with what Heather has been wearing or her appearance.  In fact, I think she comes across much prettier in her THs where she has little to no makeup on.  It's her attitude - - which sucks -- that makes her unattractive.  

I just don't get that she's trying.  To me, trying isn't just suggesting an activity but actually to do something WITH Derek and include him.  It would also benefit her to talk with him and not at him and/or say nothing and let the resentment build up.  I could be wrong and I could be biased based on watching her for a few episodes but I feel like at this point she's coming off as though she's too good for Derek; she married down and he married up. 

I do agree that at this point, they should just throw in the towel.

[Passthepopcorn]

19 hours ago, BunnySlippers said:

 

And also, his jealousy and controlling nature was sort of a red flag to me.

I doubt he is jealous, that seems a bit of a long stretch. They are not in love or close at all. He was just hurt, it was the last straw making it clear she is not even trying. She won't let the person she just married hold hands to go to breakfast or kiss her good morning but she's ok touching a hot guy's bare chest. Was that necessary?? I can understand holding hands with your instructor to go past the waves, but you can also choose to hold hands with your husband. That is what it's all about, trying to make a connection. I think she was either pretty aware of what she was doing or subconsciously making sure he got it, that she is not into him. At least tell him on his face instead of dragging this misery along, giving false hope.

I wonder why she doesn't face things. Is wine another way of going away? Is being a flight attendant and always on the go and unavailable a way of avoiding people and problems? Hmm

19 hours ago, BunnySlippers said:

 

[Evil Queen]

6 minutes ago, kat12379 said:

To me, it is the way a woman carries herself, the way she speaks, including the language she uses. To not appear overly aggressive also. Compare with Sonia and Lilly - they are more girlish/womanly from their natural demeanor

So if a woman is to aggressive its not feminine? If she speaks certain ways or use certain language she isn't either? I will respectfully agree to disagree on this. Every person is different in how they carry themselves, speak and so on. Not all women are going to be feminine and I don't think there is anything wrong with that or even being feminine or following in between it all. I would probably consider myself someone in the middle though. I am not a makeup, dress up and be cutesy kind of girl. I like to watch sports and can hang with boys with no issues. Yet at the same time I will throw on a skirt or dress once in a while if I feel like it and I always smell pretty (thanks Bath and Body works). LOL Yet I don't see being aggressive if need be a bad thing. Sometimes if a woman isn't they will get nowhere in life in work or a relationship. 

[Passthepopcorn]

1 hour ago, Evil Queen said:

 

Yet he is running around in crappy tanks and his hat on not only indoors but backwards....For the most part I don't see her clothes looking baggy (assuming it was suppose to be that and not buggy..lol). I had thought she had the sunglasses on trying to hid her eyes for some reason. We have no clue why they were on. Heck all the lights from being filmed in a small space and I would put mine on actually. So it could have been the lights. 

No, I didn't mean it as a fashion contest. And it is not about who is on his side or her side. I saw it as body language, as a way of blocking him with everything she's got. Apart from the main thing which is her attitude.

Maybe I shouldn't have said baggy (baggy yes! lol). But I found it odd to go to the ocean wearing a big t shirt when she looks so good, or having breakfast wearing sunglasses, or sunglasses while they were "talking" on the couch... It's clear she doesn't want any contact with him, not visual, not physical. Crappy situation for both of them.

Edited August 24, 2016 by Passthepopcorn

[Jack Sampson]

1 minute ago, Evil Queen said:

So if a woman is to aggressive its not feminine? If she speaks certain ways or use certain language she isn't either? I will respectfully agree to disagree on this. Every person is different in how they carry themselves, speak and so on. Not all women are going to be feminine and I don't think there is anything wrong with that or even being feminine or following in between it all. I would probably consider myself someone in the middle though. I am not a makeup, dress up and be cutesy kind of girl. I like to watch sports and can hang with boys with no issues. Yet at the same time I will throw on a skirt or dress once in a while if I feel like it and I always smell pretty (thanks Bath and Body works). LOL Yet I don't see being aggressive if need be a bad thing. Sometimes if a woman isn't they will get nowhere in life in work or a relationship. 

A. Correct.

B. Nothing wrong with it per se - but, if heather wants a man to stick around, she'll learn how to be.

[moonxyz]

Heather is Ashley without the bullshit. She doesn't like Derek and is making it very clear. She was probably expecting a Mr Big from Sex and the City, but instead got a mellow pot head.

Derek is David without the bullshit. he knows that he wife is not felling him and confronts her directly about it. He's a bummy pot head but I can tell he has a god heart.

Lilly is actually quite mature for her age. I feel sorry that she got matched with Tom.  I get strong phony vibes from him.

Nick does nothing for me, his meek personality is annoying. I don't think he is pushing as much as he should. It's ok to go at one's pace but its kind of inconsiderate to be that slow in moving forward in the relationship. 

[Chief Queef]

The "feminine" argument is a bit silly. Plenty of women are not stereotypically feminine in their self-presentation and have no problem finding boyfriends or husbands. I think what people mean to say is just that Heather's demeanor is harsh and cold, not warm and nurturing like you'd expect a wife to be. And although I don't care for either of their personalities, I'm not willing to write them off as terrible people yet since this show has a history of making bad matches and then passing blame on the participants. Personally I think Heather just doesn't want to be on the show. I noticed regret dawning on her face as the wedding approached in the first episode, before she even met Derek. It's a stupid decision and a waste of time to come on this trainwreck show and actually expect to get a decent match out of it, and I think she probably realized that early on in the process but couldn't back out since she signed a contract and is now just gritting her teeth through it.

I don't blame her for hating it, but at the same time I don't feel sorry for her either (or anyone else on this show) since they knew exactly what they were signing up for.

[Koda1969]

6 hours ago, SillyOldClothCat said:

As the wife of a Marine, I thoroughly agree with you statement. I asked my husband once what happened to all that hard work and training to keep everything around him straight?? He said it was a lot of hard work, and he isn't at work now. He did, however, maintain the self-confidence and commanding attitude he gained from serving with the USMC.

Have to agree as well. My husband is former Navy. I'm not allowed to fold his t-shirts out of the laundry because "I don't do it right" (hey, I'm fine with him doing it, less for me to do!) My husband also has a very confident demeanor (he was military police to boot). But...I can tell you that my husband definitely lived up (and continues) to the old cliches about rowdy Navy men. My husband is very outgoing (nice way of putting it). To some, he may appear childish, but when you need him, he immediately turns into the responsible man I've grown to count on.

[zxy556575]

1 hour ago, psychoticstate said:

I do agree that at this point, they should just throw in the towel.

Definitely but I doubt they do. The fact that the show teased Pastor Calvin offering it means to me that they stick it out. Although I'd be curious from a production standpoint to see how the show could carry on if a third of the participants quit. 

It's interesting to see the dynamic from last season play out again, wrt Ashley refusing to give David the time of day. David just smiled and tried harder but Derek is not having that. Lashing out with petty and cruel comments isn't a good look on anyone, but while I think he's being small and childish, I also sympathize with his predicament.

There are now five women -- I include Heather -- who were Repulsed At First Sight. That's 42%! Jaclyn and Jamie left their emotional doors a bit ajar and gradually grew closer to their grooms (lasting or not). Samantha eventually relented but it was too late for Neil, and Ashley never did.

[Vinyasa]

Quote

I am a total grammar/punctuation Nazi, but non-native speakers of English get a pass from me. Lillian grew up speaking Spanish, right?

She doesn't get a pass from me after all she was in "medical school".

We're not talking about 3rd graders here. She is a realtor and deals with legally binding contracts and should use correct grammar.