All Episodes Talk: Lorelai and Rory and the People They Love

[Guest]

Irrational me is sad that I don’t get Up to watch the marathon. Rational me knows that I own the DVDs and have Netflix and can stream all the episodes anytime.

[voiceover]

12 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

On screen, Luke's first time was that horrible Martha's Vineyard episode while Lorelai's was in the season 6 finale while she was giving him an ultimatum.  In both cases it was implied that they'd both said it to the other prior to those moments.  My guess is that they started saying it after their first reconciliation in season 5 but it's possible that they started after they got engaged. 

Thanks.  Watching the Martha ep now.  

I’m sad that there wasn’t a 1st time significant “I love you” moment.  Wonder if ASP ever addressed that.

Now it’s making me doubt the “I love you”s from all those years of TV couples.  Off the top of my head = Monica & Chandler “TOW Everybody Finds Out” on Friends.  Which was a wonderful moment surrounded by one of their best episodes ever.

11 minutes ago, deaja said:

Irrational me is sad that I don’t get Up to watch the marathon. Rational me knows that I own the DVDs and have Netflix and can stream all the episodes anytime.

Oh please.  It’s just...different! on TV.  I totally get this.  

[andromeda331]

Watching the horrible Martha's Vineyard episode, its not easy. Its horrible. The end when Luke and Lorelai finally talk is nice. If only they were allowed to keep talking about the rest of the season.  Maybe even the rest of show and in the revival. They'd be able to work out all their issues. What would happen to their storylines? I mean Lorelai wouldn't end up in bed with Christopher, and marry Christopher on a rebound. Instead we could have had a wedding. The new family of four adjusting to each other, seeing them all going to FND together. But that's just madness. Madness. 

[Kohola3]

3 hours ago, voiceover said:

I’m sad that there wasn’t a 1st time significant “I love you” moment.  Wonder if ASP ever addressed that.

 

I have always believed that ASP and DP never say it which is why it was never written in the series.  No displays of affection, no "I love you's" and the answer to any stressful situation is jumping into bed with Christoper.

And it's always been clear that ASP doesn't give a damn what the viewers might prefer.  Her show, her way.  Thus the truly horrendous YITL with no thought toward continuity from the season "I never watched".

[shron17]

5 hours ago, voiceover said:

I’m sad that there wasn’t a 1st time significant “I love you” moment.  Wonder if ASP ever addressed that.

This is from an interview ASP did during season 5 or 6:

Quote

MA: Why haven't Luke and Lorelai said "I love you" to each other?

AS-P: To me, they say "I love you" to each other every single day. Everything that they do, the way they care for each other, the way they take care of each other.… "I love you," for me, is a tricky phrase on television because I think it's way overused, as it is in life. I think they constantly button scenes with, "I love you." "I love you, too." "I love you, Mom." "I love you, Butchy." "I love you, Johnny." "I love you, Fluffy." There's just nothing but I love yous and so little goes behind it. And part of what I love about Luke and Lorelai is they don't do that. They just love each other. They just take care of each other. They just support each other. They do everything that you're supposed to do and they don't have to say "I love you" 100,000 times. And when the words finally come out and when we feel like we actually need to write them down, it's probably going to come at a very odd time.

[voiceover]

Sure.  I get that. I certainly agree — especially in Luke’s case — it was actions, speaking louder. 

On the other hand: nice that Amy had the opportunity to get the word out to the proles; to the flyovers; to the Great Unwashed.  No sappy statement of true affection would dare to stain her show.

I feel about this the same way I do about all writers/showrunners who think “I love you” and marriage and babies are showkillers.  Sure, there are more examples of this, than the successful kind.  But shouldn’t that be the challenge, not the surrender? Like, if you think it’s cliche, find a way, Clever Ones, to set it on its head (see my earlier example of Monica & Chandler).  Put the words of the interview into the mouths of your characters, prior to “But I want to tell you anyway!”

I was enchanted every time Luke said, “Lorelai” in their conversations.  Because it rarely happened.  I would have melted through the fuckin’ floor  to hear his, “I love you.”

Because it’s not so much about the words than it is about the one who says them.

Edited November 26, 2017 by voiceover

[shron17]

2 hours ago, voiceover said:

I feel about this the same way I do about all writers/showrunners who think “I love you” and marriage and babies are showkillers.  Sure, there are more examples of this, than the successful kind.  But shouldn’t that be the challenge, not the surrender? Like, if you think it’s cliche, find a way,

I guess I'd rather see any writer write what feels true to them and to their characters and to their story and not even think about cliches.  And I think Amy tries to do that despite all of the criticisms viewers have.  Good thing she doesn't read anything written about her shows online.

2 hours ago, voiceover said:

Because it’s not so much about the words than it is about the one who says them.

I got much more out of Luke's "No one will ever be more here for you than I am.  I will never leave, I will never think about leaving, I will do whatever it takes to fix what's wrong."  I'd take that over all the I love you's in the world.  Also, Lorelai's I love you during the ultimatum sounded to me much more like a demand than an expression of love.  I'd have much rather seen her show her love for Luke in that scene by being honest with him about what was upsetting her and being open to working with him to find a way to move forward that worked for both of them.

[Frelling Tralk]

On 24/11/2017 at 4:43 AM, Taryn74 said:

Everybody hates on Sookie for that scene, but honestly?  I sympathize.  I've had a baby not sleep at all, many a time, and it's hard to remember your own name when you get woken up after a night like that.  I fell asleep sitting straight up while nursing one of my babies one night, and when hubby got home the next morning and rang the doorbell and woke me up (he worked nights and I would set the alarm) I didn't even realize I left the baby laying asleep on a stack of pillows next to me until I stood up felt cold air hitting me where my nightgown was still open LOL.

Plus, the way Tom says "They won't even leave [the sink] without your approval" it sounds like he's being sarcastic.  I always forget he's being serious until they literally don't leave the sink and Lorelai goes off on Sookie about it.

I'm not saying Sookie was right and Lorelai was wrong for being upset, but I do sympathize.

I could sympathise with Sookie being tired and screwing up, it just made me mad how unapologetic she was when Lorelai called her out, and how she casually tried to blame Michel for it. In Sookie’s position I would have been truly mortified and falling all over myself to apologise, especially as it was her idea in the first place to insist that she needed to personally approve the sink, but instead she actually seemed taken-aback that Lorelai dared to get mad at her for not showing her and honouring her commitment?!

 

Sookie seemed completely oblivious as well to how much they were struggling, and how little they could afford to just waste money like that by having to have the sink shipped back a second time, and then she tried to say that she assumed that their business partnership consisted of Lorelai doing all of the start-up work by herself and all Sookie needed to do was prepare the meals once they were up and running. No wonder Lorelai ended up in tears and feeling like she was doing it all alone

Edited November 26, 2017 by Frelling Tralk

[Kohola3]

4 hours ago, voiceover said:

I was enchanted every time Luke said, “Lorelai” in their conversations.  Because it rarely happened.  I would have melted through the fuckin’ floor  to hear his, “I love you.”

Then scant seconds that are tolerable in that horrible Martha's Vineyard debacle were when Luke said "I love you, I am gonna marry you, and at our wedding we are having lobster".  It was a lovely quiet moment with their intertwined hands.  I would have liked more of that. 

What was true to ASP was not necessarily what the viewers wanted.  It's a harsh world and if you are going to invest in spending the time to watch a program, it would be nice if she had been more responsive and not determined ignore her fans.  In her zeal to "do it my way" she totally ruined a much anticipated remake.  Personally I hope she read the reviews of it, maybe she'd learn something.
"

[shron17]

10 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

What was true to ASP was not necessarily what the viewers wanted. 

Maybe it would be more accurate to say some viewers didn't completely agree with Amy's vision for the show.  Which is okay, but doesn't change the fact that she more or less created it and that the show and the characters couldn't be as they are without her.  With all of the different opinions offered here, would you really rather watch a show created by group think than one created by someone with a strong vision and the talent to bring it to the screen?  I know I wouldn't.

31 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

In her zeal to "do it my way" she totally ruined a much anticipated remake. 

I know I'm only one person, but I enjoyed the revival very much and am very grateful it was made.  It pretty much gave me everything I needed to see for a much more satisfying ending to the series than season 7.

[Frelling Tralk]

I enjoyed the revival as well. I was really impressed at what a realistic note they struck with Rory’s future not paning out the way that everybody had predicted, and I loved Emily’s journey as well, and getting to see Paris again and laughing at Michel. Most of the reviews I read have seemed pretty positive about the revival, so I’m not sure how scathing the critical response actually was? At any rate, I’m always coming across articles with the critics hopefully speculating on when we might get more, and it’s clearly something that Amy has been asked about constantly since moving to Amazon for her new show, so I’ve never seen it as the complete flop that it can sometimes be dismissed as

Edited November 26, 2017 by Frelling Tralk

[voiceover]

Yes. Yay Amy for giving us Lorelai and Matt for giving us Don Draper and David for giving us Tony Soprano and Joss for giving us Spike.  All characters I love, and series I enjoyed.  Mostly.

Fans of a character or show, appreciate that character and that show in all different ways.  And sometimes the appreciation leads to: But wow! this sucks.  

If a character can only say I love you in such a way that it comes off as a “demand [rather] than an expression of love”, here are two possible ways to react: 1)I guess ASP showed us what she meant by that whole “declaration” thing/I sure have learned my lesson about that!/Sorry I ever questioned her genius Or 2)Damn girl, get someone else on your writing team who doesn’t have your Ish to write it. 

I appreciate Amy the most for never giving me Megan Draper, blackout endings, bathroom rape attempts.  So there is that.

[Frelling Tralk]

I guess I just don’t understand why it’s considered poor writing to create a character who isn’t particularly comfortable with openly sharing his feelings, with a clear tendency to hide said feelings behind a gruff and bad-tempered demeanor, and then not have that character saying ‘ love you’ all the time? Is that not just staying accurate to how that character really would be in a relationship? I saw moments like, ‘I am in. I am all in’, or ‘I just like to see you happy’, or "No one will ever be more here for you than I am.  I will never leave’ as being far more true to the character that Amy created then Luke getting sappy and straight out telling Lorelai that he loves her so much, and there are certainly many shippy moments for the fans with Luke showing Lorelai how he feels without actually saying the words 

I think Amy believed too that she *was* giving the fans what they wanted in the revival, that in her eyes the shippers would be estastic with having Luke passionately declare his feelings, and then ending the revival on them getting married at last with a dream wedding for Lorelai. I just don’t see the spite and withholding that other fans have picked up on, and her ignoring what fans wanted? She didn’t write Luke and Lorelai as perfect and all lovey-dovey all the time in the revival granted, but that was completely accurate to the pairing that the viewers fell in love with, it’s Luke that we’re talking about after all

[shron17]

9 minutes ago, voiceover said:

If a character can only say I love you in such a way that it comes off as a “demand [rather] than an expression of love”, here are two possible ways to react: 1)I guess ASP showed us what she meant by that whole “declaration” thing/I sure have learned my lesson about that!/Sorry I ever questioned her genius Or 2)Damn girl, get someone else on your writing team who doesn’t have your Ish to write it. 

Yes, fans appreciate shows in many varied ways.  Some may have those reactions.  Some might add 3, that Lorelai in this situation is using the words I love you as away of convincing Luke to elope immediately and not assume that Amy's trying to "show" us something.  A lot of others might have completely different reactions. 

The fact that I don't love every single thing that Amy did with the show doesn't mean I can't appreciate the dialog, the characters, the relationships, the town of Stars Hollow, etc. etc.  Fans don't all have the same opinions.  I don't love Tony Soprano and thought the blackout ending was fitting.  It seemed completely believable to me that Don Draper would marry Megan and I didn't mind her all that much.  I'd much rather focus on the things I do like about shows rather than what I don't and would much rather see shows written as those who created them intended rather than catering to fans.

[tarotx]

The problem with Spike's attempted rape is the same as Jess's sexual misconduct. The girls don't matter. It's to send the guy off to spin off/redemption. Plus it's just not a nice look for the guy you want the lead character to find happiness with to be the one who wouldn't care enough about their girl to get that they didn't want sex. The girl had to push the guy off. 

I don't have an issue with limited I love yous. It fits Luke. He's a silent prove it type. Lorelai isn't one to easily express her emotions. She's a doer without even thinking about the emotion behind it.

And I don't think creators need to cater to fans. But know your medium. Tv fans spend hours with the characters before the show is close to ending or wanting to end. There is room for movement. To understand the audience. Things change all the time with actors leaving or real life events affecting what can and can not happen. Fans staying around is important to the studio&station making and/or airing the show. Books and movies are written before their audience has time with them.

Amy has ship baited Lit and it's the worst thing about tv. There is nothing real in show saying they have a real chance. Just a small dangle of carrots that are eaten up. 

Edited November 27, 2017 by tarotx

[tennisgurl]

I have been off and on watching some of season three, and I had honestly forgotten how much I disliked the whole Jess/Rory/Dean love triangle, especially after Rory got with Jess. Rory actually comes off pretty well (which is a nice change compared to later seasons) but Jess and Dean were both such huge assholes! Granted, they're both still teenagers, and teenagers gonna teenager, but they were both so petty and jealous, constantly trying to threaten and outdo each other whenever Rory had her back turned, even after Dean hooked up with Lindsay (and we all know where THAT lead) and it was just super unpleasant. And they did all this whenever Rory wasn't around, it made me really angry on her behalf. Dean continues the small town bumpkin act with an extra splash of aggressive possession that the writers forced on him when they decided to pair Rory with Jess, and Jess was just an prick who treated Rory like crap all of the time and got all jealous whenever Dean was around. It was just so obnoxious watching these two guys competing over a girl like shes some kind of carnival toy they both think they can win. They both sucked, and I just wanted Rory to be rid of both of them. 

[Anela]

On November 25, 2017 at 1:21 PM, voiceover said:

 

Oh please.  It’s just...different! on TV.  I totally get this.  

It is, although I love Netflix. I like the idea of tuning into something like that, with a lot of people (on this forum). :)

I remember the marathons of My So-Called Life, on MTV, on thanksgiving or Christmas. 

Going back to the "Never what you THINK it's going to be!" I like her, "Why don't I ever bring a tape recorder?" And having put a post-it on something, so keep it nice. Also, Emily trying to take care of her, when her back was out (the night of the dance). Until they argued. It makes me miss my mum. 

Edited November 29, 2017 by Anela

[strongercoffee]

Hi! I asked this in the unpopular opinions thread, but it got lost amid other discussion topics, so I figured it might be okay to try asking it here:

If you had to pick just one, who do you personally like less (and/or find yourself more frequently wanting to throttle): Rory or Lorelai? I'm excited to see everyone's answers and hear how you made this difficult choice!

[Katy M]

15 minutes ago, strongercoffee said:

Hi! I asked this in the unpopular opinions thread, but it got lost amid other discussion topics, so I figured it might be okay to try asking it here:

If you had to pick just one, who do you personally like less (and/or find yourself more frequently wanting to throttle): Rory or Lorelai? I'm excited to see everyone's answers and hear how you made this difficult choice!

Post high school, Rory.  Definitely.  I'm fine with her in high school.  No, she's not perfect, but nobody is, and it's not her fault if her family and the town treat her like she's a princess.  But, because of that she apparently never learned how to take responsibility for her actions, accept criticism, or deal constructively with setbacks. 

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

I feel like every single post in this forum includes criticism of one or both of the girls. In that sense, the answer to that question has been answered ad nauseam.

On 12/1/2017 at 11:07 AM, Katy M said:

But, because of that she apparently never learned how to take responsibility for her actions, accept criticism, or deal constructively with setbacks. 

 This probably belongs in the Unpopular thread but I want to briefly respond to the bold.

After Mitchum's feedback, she accepted his criticism without question and was upset. Meaning, she didn't see herself was above criticism. 

Having had her meltdown, she turned to her mother to deal with her accepted reality.  What did Lorelai do? Totally poo hoo her concerns and request to take a moment to take stock. Lorelai acted as if Rory was above reproach when Rory herself knew and had accepted that she wasn't and was trying to fix herself.

That break from Yale was Rory trying to correct the ship, albeit unsuccessfully. She heeded Mitchum's criticism but she had zero support system in doing something useful with it. Had Lorelai not chosen to shut her out and left her to flounder at what is possibly the worst time in her coming unto adulthood, maybe Rory would've taken on a different path back then. There is nothing wrong with redirecting one's career at any age but for Rory the opportunity to do so presented itself much earlier on. Had the person she admired above all and with whom she had shared her future dreams allowed it, Rory might have taken  ore suitable path. 

Edited December 5, 2017 by Deputy Deputy CoS
I proof only after I hit send

[Katy M]

24 minutes ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

After Mitchum's feedback, she accepted his criticism without question and was upset. Meaning, she didn't see herself was above criticism.

To me, not accepting criticism means not being able to take it maturely and make adult decisions and adaptations from it.  So, when her professor told her she needed to drop a class, instead of calm, she went and laid the groundwork for sleeping with a married man. Oh, and by the way, let's not forget that when the professor told her she should drop his class, her original intent was to go to his office on a flimsy excuse so he could tell her how great her paper was. When Mitchum told her she couldn't hack life as a reporter, or whatever, she stole a yacht.  When told she wasn't good enough for the Huntzbergers, instead of disdaining their snobbish ways, her response was that she was a Gilmore.  IIRC, and I honestly think I might not be, but when she lost Headmaster Charlston's niece, she shifted blame to Logan.  When someone stole her "study tree" instead of finding another place to study she whined and eventually paid him for the tree.  Not sustainable.  Especially if he goes and tells all his buddies about the crazy girl who will pay for the tree.

And, even though this wasn't shown on screen, I'm convinced that since she took a semester off, she must have had her grandparents bribe the administration to allow her to graduate with fewer credits than needed.

[WhoaWhoKnew]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

So, when her professor told her she needed to drop a class, instead of calm, she went and laid the groundwork for sleeping with a married man. Oh, and by the way, let's not forget that when the professor told her she should drop his class, her original intent was to go to his office on a flimsy excuse so he could tell her how great her paper was. When Mitchum told her she couldn't hack life as a reporter, or whatever, she stole a yacht.  When told she wasn't good enough for the Huntzbergers, instead of disdaining their snobbish ways, her response was that she was a Gilmore.  IIRC, and I honestly think I might not be, but when she lost Headmaster Charlston's niece, she shifted blame to Logan.  When someone stole her "study tree" instead of finding another place to study she whined and eventually paid him for the tree.  Not sustainable.  Especially if he goes and tells all his buddies about the crazy girl who will pay for the tree.

All of this. Her arrogance and entitlement exploded in college. 

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

To me, not accepting criticism means not being able to take it maturely and make adult decisions and adaptations from it.  So, when her professor told her she needed to drop a class, instead of calm, she went and laid the groundwork for sleeping with a married man. Oh, and by the way, let's not forget that when the professor told her she should drop his class, her original intent was to go to his office on a flimsy excuse so he could tell her how great her paper was. When Mitchum told her she couldn't hack life as a reporter, or whatever, she stole a yacht.  When told she wasn't good enough for the Huntzbergers, instead of disdaining their snobbish ways, her response was that she was a Gilmore.  IIRC, and I honestly think I might not be, but when she lost Headmaster Charlston's niece, she shifted blame to Logan.  When someone stole her "study tree" instead of finding another place to study she whined and eventually paid him for the tree.  Not sustainable.  Especially if he goes and tells all his buddies about the crazy girl who will pay for the tree.

And, even though this wasn't shown on screen, I'm convinced that since she took a semester off, she must have had her grandparents bribe the administration to allow her to graduate with fewer credits than needed.

The affair with Dean is a result of a commutation of events, one of which was her inability to smooth sail in college. 

I know Rory is hated but there is enough of her actions shown on screen to criticize her for, without these types of speculations IMO

[WhoaWhoKnew]

5 minutes ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

I know Rory is hated but there is enough of her actions shown on screen to criticize her for, without these types of speculations IMO

The one about the paper is not speculation. She is on the phone with Lorelai and states that the prof will tell her, "how about an A Miss Gilmore!" or something similar.

Edited December 1, 2017 by WhoaWhoKnew

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

The affair with Dean is a result of a commutation of events, one of which was her inability to smooth sail in college. 

I know Rory is hated but there is enough of her actions shown on screen to criticize her for, without these types of speculations IMO

I was obviously joking about the bribe  That was more of a huge plot hole.  But, what else was speculation.? Especially the bolded parts. WE know she stole a yacht.  She got community service for it.  It was obviously as a direct result of Mitchum's criticism because it's the very next thing she did and it'snot like she made a habit of it.

And, she was talking on the phone about how she was going to come home after she stopped by her prof's office saying that she was going to pretend she couldn't read her own notes so that he could bring up her paper and say how awesome it was. Yes, I'm paraphrasing a bit, but that was very much the git.

[Kohola3]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

...it'snot...

Hee!  Good way to describe Rory at that time......a snot.

[shron17]

4 hours ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

There is nothing wrong with redirecting one's career at any age but for Rory the opportunity to do so presented itself much earlier on. Had the person she admired above all and with whom she had shared her future dreams allowed it, Rory might have taken  ore suitable path. 

There isn't anything at all wrong with redirecting one's career and many college students do so.  But they don't drop out--they talk to their advisors, they explore other majors and possibly transfer to another school.  Most who do drop out do so for financial reasons and have a full-time job lined up to save more money.  Lorelai wanted Rory to have a plan and not just sit at home in Stars Hollow with a part-time job at the bookstore.  Instead of running sobbing to Richard and moving into the poolhouse Rory could have come up with a better plan to pitch to Lorelai.

[Kohola3]

1 hour ago, shron17 said:

There isn't anything at all wrong with redirecting one's career and many college students do so.  But they don't drop out--they talk to their advisors, they explore other majors and possibly transfer to another school. 

Rory quite in a fit of pique with no plans just as a petulant toddler throws down toys and stomps away when crossed.  She had no plan other than to quit and run to Grampy to back her up. And the grandparents played right into it by cosseting her and essentially rewarding the childish behavior by giving her a redecorated private space and no responsibilities at all.  Brat.   She wasn't redirecting her career.  She was throwing a temper tantrum.

[FictionLover]

10 hours ago, strongercoffee said:

Hi! I asked this in the unpopular opinions thread, but it got lost amid other discussion topics, so I figured it might be okay to try asking it here:

If you had to pick just one, who do you personally like less (and/or find yourself more frequently wanting to throttle): Rory or Lorelai? I'm excited to see everyone's answers and hear how you made this difficult choice!

As you can see in previous posts... it’s Rory and I concur 100%!

[andromeda331]

4 hours ago, shron17 said:

There isn't anything at all wrong with redirecting one's career and many college students do so.  But they don't drop out--they talk to their advisors, they explore other majors and possibly transfer to another school.  Most who do drop out do so for financial reasons and have a full-time job lined up to save more money.  Lorelai wanted Rory to have a plan and not just sit at home in Stars Hollow with a part-time job at the bookstore.  Instead of running sobbing to Richard and moving into the poolhouse Rory could have come up with a better plan to pitch to Lorelai.

 

3 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

Rory quite in a fit of pique with no plans just as a petulant toddler throws down toys and stomps away when crossed.  She had no plan other than to quit and run to Grampy to back her up. And the grandparents played right into it by cosseting her and essentially rewarding the childish behavior by giving her a redecorated private space and no responsibilities at all.  Brat.   She wasn't redirecting her career.  She was throwing a temper tantrum.

Exactly. She threw a tantrum, she quit. Then did nothing for months but party, drink and hang out with Logan. Not exactly rethinking things, deciding what she really wants to do, exploring different careers or jobs, or anything. She only moved out of her grandparents when they started laying down rules and she decided she didn't like rules. Later she's complaining to Lorelai about how awful it was at her grandparents. Rory actually thinks she's suffered staying with them and happy to cut them out of her life by having Christopher pay for Yale. She can't even bother to call and thank them for all their help. 

[WhosThatGirl]

14 hours ago, Katy M said:

Post high school, Rory.  Definitely.  I'm fine with her in high school.  No, she's not perfect, but nobody is, and it's not her fault if her family and the town treat her like she's a princess.  But, because of that she apparently never learned how to take responsibility for her actions, accept criticism, or deal constructively with setbacks. 

This.  I hated Rory in college. And the reason I disliked her was that she had never failed previously in her life really. It really bothered me.

Also the internship with Mitchum is something interesting, I think we are supposed to feel he’s the bad guy for telling Rory that she “didn’t have it” but she didn’t.. from what we saw. A part of me thinks he may have been right, she didn’t do anything really. But once again.. having never heard any sort of criticism before she didn’t know how to respond. Her response was to drop out of school.

I’m also mad that even after it all, it’s always someone else’s fault. Especially that half of the year when she bailed on college, everyone but Rory herself is to blame for it. 

And that probably explains her adult life in the revival. And say what you want about Lorelei, but I do feel like she at least owns her behavior. There are times when she doesn’t of course but at least by the series and revival end, I see some growth in her.

Also in the first couple scenes of the revival, I had hope with Rory. I was like “her career is fleeing but also it’s a different media day and she.. makes sense” then we find out she really isn’t doing much to further it. She’s sleeping with an ex boyfriend who has a fiancé, and she does get a job interview and bombs it by not researching the company beforehand and acting all entitled at the interview like she’s above them. And at the end of revival, she’s writing a book about her and her moms  life because  someone will find that super fascinating because of course they will. I mean.. I guess that’s something? Most of the revival was a lot of her failing around and doing nothing really. Restarting up the dead stars hallow newspaper for nostalgia feels wasn’t really anything. 

[Frelling Tralk]

4 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Also the internship with Mitchum is something interesting, I think we are supposed to feel he’s the bad guy for telling Rory that she “didn’t have it” but she didn’t.. from what we saw. A part of me thinks he may have been right, she didn’t do anything really. But once again.. having never heard any sort of criticism before she didn’t know how to respond 

 I don’t think that Mitchum was as much as the bad guy as Rory’s mother and grandparents made out, but I do think that he handled it all badly, perhaps a sign that he wasn’t really used to mentoring interns as obviously he only took on Rory as a personal favour. I can sympathise with Rory being unsure of whether she should speak up in the meeting when she’s not an official employee, she’s mostly there to fetch the coffee frankly and to learn from others, a lot of people would have been sure about how much they should be putting themselves forward in that position. Young women especially are not really raised to confidently speak out over others in the belief that your voice is one that needs to be heard, not like how an entitled man like Mitchum would have been raised  

The correct way to handle it would have been to give Rory feedback on what was expected of her, and then see if she takes onboard what you’re saying and starts speaking up more and contributing ideas. Instead Mitchum observed Rory in a single meeting, and then afterwards tells her that she doesn’t have it and he’s rarely wrong about those things. IMO that really wasn’t fair, it would be hard for anyone to know how to respond when you’re being told something as blunt as that with no leeway to make improvements, instead he had clearly made his snap judgment that ‘you don’t got it’ and that was that 

Edited December 2, 2017 by Frelling Tralk

[Katy M]

2 hours ago, Frelling Tralk said:

I don’t think that Mitchum was as much as the bad guy as Rory’s mother and grandparents made out, but I do think that he handled it all badly, perhaps a sign that he wasn’t really used to mentoring interns as obviously he only took on Rory as a personal favour. I can sympathise with Rory being unsure of whether she should speak up in the meeting when she’s not an official employee, she’s mostly there to fetch the coffee frankly and to learn from others, a lot of people would have been sure about how much they should be putting themselves forward in that position. Young women especially are not really raised to confidently speak out over others in the belief that your voice is one that needs to be heard, not like how an entitled man like Mitchum would have been raised  

I don't really mind that she was unsure of what to do either.  But, she should have just taken the criticism and said to herself, "OK, if I get another opportunity like this again, I'm going to voice my opinion, and I'm going to learn to ask questions to find out exactly what is expected of me."  Failing at something is how we all learn.  She should have also took a breath and realized that since Mitchum's main (only?) criticism of her was that she did nothing but observe, he really had no way to evaluate her journalism skills.

[Guest]

He had been observing her for more than a meeting. It was an ongoing internship. But an experienced/good mentor would have been telling her throughout what areas she needed to improve on.

[Katy M]

13 minutes ago, deaja said:

He had been observing her for more than a meeting. It was an ongoing internship. But an experienced/good mentor would have been telling her throughout what areas she needed to improve on.

I remember at that final meeting, I think he paused and looked at her and she just smiled or something.  Maybe we're supposed to assume he was trying to subtly tell her she needed to do more and she just wasn't picking up on it.  Either way, the outcome of this internship shouldn't have been a big deal for the reasons I stated above. She should have just taken it as a learning experience.  I realize that the fact that it was Logan's father somewhat complicated the issue, and I'm in no way suggesting that her feelings shouldn't be hurt, or that she wasn't allowed to feel downtrodden by the whole event. In fact, I think blowing off her plans that night and going home and crying would have been quite justified under the circumstances.  I just think she lacked a little perspective on the matter.  This would have been a good thing to discuss with one of her professors, or her advisor, or Doyle if he was still the Yale  Daily editor,  (not Lorelei or her grandparents).  And, had she not acted so rashly that night, she probably would have.

[Guest]

She reacted terribly, but so did Lorelai. Rory had some definite passive traits, and rather than saying “he’s doing this because he doesn’t want you dating his son,” Lorelai could have steered her to evaluating herself. What are ways she could have stepped up? How can she apply herself going forward? What will she do differently next time? In work, I’ve coached many interns, and the key to a bad review is helping them see what they can change to have a better next one. 

But Rory responds by felony theft and Lorelai by blaming everyone but Rory, so we got what we got.

[shron17]

Lorelai was always more than willing to blame anyone but Rory, but Rory never gave her details either.  I think all she told Lorelai was that Mitchum said she didn't have it.  Kind of similar to when she neglected to tell her mother Dean broke up with her because she didn't respond when he told he loved her.  That said, Rory probably omitted details that made her look bad because of the pressure of being up on that pedestal. 

But also, parenting is very different than coaching and the two don't mix well.  Most of us take much more offense to something our mother says than anyone else.

[andromeda331]

44 minutes ago, deaja said:

She reacted terribly, but so did Lorelai. Rory had some definite passive traits, and rather than saying “he’s doing this because he doesn’t want you dating his son,” Lorelai could have steered her to evaluating herself. What are ways she could have stepped up? How can she apply herself going forward? What will she do differently next time? In work, I’ve coached many interns, and the key to a bad review is helping them see what they can change to have a better next one. 

But Rory responds by felony theft and Lorelai by blaming everyone but Rory, so we got what we got.

 

4 minutes ago, shron17 said:

Lorelai was always more than willing to blame anyone but Rory, but Rory never gave her details either.  I think all she told Lorelai was that Mitchum said she didn't have it.  Kind of similar to when she neglected to tell her mother Dean broke up with her because she didn't respond when he told he loved her.  That said, Rory probably omitted details that made her look bad because of the pressure of being up on that pedestal. 

But also, parenting is very different than coaching and the two don't mix well.  Most of us take much more offense to something our mother says than anyone else.

Rory really doesn't give her too many details just telling her he said she doesn't have it. Both end up blaming Mitchum. So does Richard and Emily later. It stinks in the beginning Lorelai was asking Rory good questions like what was he basing that on? At the time Rory probably wouldn't have thought to ask that question. It is hard to think of asking questions when your getting criticized especially by someone you admire in your field. But why not have Rory go back and ask Mitchum what he was basing that on? Was it on her writing ability, what he saw during the internship? Maybe have him point out all of her work during the intern she came off like a good assistant or he points to the meeting where he looked at her waiting for her to respond and she said nothing. Rory's really good at getting assignments. But she has zero investigating skills. She's really good at research but where's her drive to find a story? He could have told her what being a journalist is really like. Rory could have learned areas where she needed to improve on. But that didn't happen. Everyone in Rory's world including her acts like Mitchum is evil.    

[tarotx]

Rory started off her sophomore year already feeling behind at the Yale paper. Over the summer her co-workers (classmates?) were doing internships at hometown papers, getting articles reprinted in the New York Times. Then her choice of story for her first feature beat was a boring nothing there choice. Paris called her out and Rory finally followed her gut on doing the LDB piece. She went up to Logan and piqued his interest. Got in on the inside. She mostly observed though she did talk to a few different groups. We really know what Rory's story arc will be when she & Logan talk about her being an observer instead of jumping in to find the story-experiencing it first hand. She gets a great piece out if it. Logan compares it to Joseph Mitchell.

When we return to Rory the journalist later in the season she is beyond excited. She's researching Mitchum and reading books on his interest. Then when she gets to the internship  paper she's a bundle of nerves and she even forgot the pencil Mitchum asked her to bring. She kind of recovers but by observing and being a people pleaser. But she never goes in and engages Mitchum. He's the story. She should have been thinking how to get him to talk. Find out first hand how he felt about his accomplishments. She asked Logan but never really went in to learn what Mitchum could teach her beyond what observing would. In fact I think the best thing she did was get people to like her and be able to help smoothe the work place for everybody.

Paris and Lorelai would do more than observe. They would perpare or naturally just know how to get to the meat.

Mitchum judged Rory accurately but was being an a$$ when telling her she'd make a good assistant. I think he was probably trying to push her buttons. She responded like a hurt child.

Rory should have talked to someone but talking is not something The Gilmores do easily. And Lorelai and Rory both have impulse control issues because of it.

Rory didn't just drink and party during her time off. She did her community service and worked at the DAR. It wasn't figuring things out but it was living her life. She wasn't ready to figure things out. Sometimes you just need a break. 

When Rory goes back to Yale, it's the skills that she displayed at the Gazette that gives her success. Although I don't think Rory ever really evaluated herself on the situation to find out just what she's good at within her choosen field. 

As far adult Rory, I think she's just burned out. Too many years in a job not quite right for her.

In the revival, Rory and Logan talk about Naomi but Rory doesn't heed his warnings that the woman can be strange and difficult. Rory doesn't prepare herself so doesn't know how to deal when Logan's warnings turn true. 

Also when Rory and Logan are talking about Sandy Says, he tells her that the online mag is chatty and gossipy but that them wanting her might mean they are looking to class up the joint. Rory doesn't heed that advice either and comes in with nothing that would do that. Nothing that would bring Rory Gilmore to the magazine. 

When Rory is doing her lines piece, there are interesting takes persented to her. The people waiting in line for whatever which turns out to be waiting for nothing. Rory doesn't interview those people. When Lorelai can get anything without waiting inline, Rory doesn't see that as an interesting angle. She doesn't try to find out what the people inline think about that. Or how telling Lorelai's way to the masses to compare abd contrast. There is an easy story there.

When Jess tells her to write a book about her mom, it's kind of assignment like and Rory drives in but when things get hard because of Lorelai, she sits on it.

I'm not exactly sure what we are supposed to get about Rory from her career in the revival. Just that she's burnt out. I think writing about her mom and herself will help her see how she is both similar to her mom but also how different. 

Edited December 2, 2017 by tarotx
I totally needed to edit before posting. I'm always afraid I'll lose everything. Rereading I always find errors. I'm sure there are still more but I'm on my phone then and now...

[Katy M]

I don't really care that Lorelei told Rory it was because Mitchum didn't want her dating Tristan. That may actually have been part of it, subconsciously, or unconsciously.  At the end of the day that doesn't matter.  I had a boss that I am still convinced hated me from the get go for a petty reason. It didn't change the fact that I sucked at the job (which I totally did) and that I needed to learn from that experience going forward.  Not blame him for my not being good at that particular job.  I now work at something completely different and am at least competent at it.  I did cry once, but not in front of the boss.  I did vent to my roommate.  But, I didn't steal a yacht.  OK, we were in the Midwest, that was not an option.  I just kept trying to get better at my job until I realized that wasn't going to happen and I quit and moved on.

I think I list my original point somewhere.  At this point, Rory is an adult.  It's her job to navigate through her life.  And as someone else said, she wouldn't take criticism from Lorelei very well, because Lorelei wasn't there to see what, if anything, she was doing wrong.  If my mom had said something like "from what you're telling me it sounds like you are just bad at X and you should do y to correct that," I probably would have just said "what do you know?" and hung up on her:)  

[WhosThatGirl]

Also Rory is rude to Lorelei when she’s like “so I’m going to drop out of college and not return” speech. And Lorelei asked questions about why and Rory said “because I don’t want to be a journalist anymore!” And Lorelei is like “okay fine change your major be undecided” and Rory shouted that she didn’t want to be wandering around aimlessly wasting money. Which again, Lorelei gets points for telling Rory she’s not paying it, nor is she taking out loans that probably her fellow classmates are. Rory had it made.

If she was paying for it herself, I would understand. Or if she was taking loans out for school, because essentially it is her who is paying it just later on. But she wasn’t. And that always bugged me about the whole thing. And I hated that Rory tried to make Lorelei sound stupid by saying things like “lots of people do this-you just don’t understand”. 

[andromeda331]

2 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Also Rory is rude to Lorelei when she’s like “so I’m going to drop out of college and not return” speech. And Lorelei asked questions about why and Rory said “because I don’t want to be a journalist anymore!” And Lorelei is like “okay fine change your major be undecided” and Rory shouted that she didn’t want to be wandering around aimlessly wasting money. Which again, Lorelei gets points for telling Rory she’s not paying it, nor is she taking out loans that probably her fellow classmates are. Rory had it made.

If she was paying for it herself, I would understand. Or if she was taking loans out for school, because essentially it is her who is paying it just later on. But she wasn’t. And that always bugged me about the whole thing. And I hated that Rory tried to make Lorelei sound stupid by saying things like “lots of people do this-you just don’t understand”. 

She's very rude during that talk. She refuses to answer questions as to why she's quitting Yale or listen to reason about trying a different major. Telling her mother that's not what Yale is for. Lorelai points out that's what college is for. Lorelai suggests trying different majors or going to Harvard when Rory points out she was working towards Harvard. Plus how is that not what college is for? Even Yale? No one at Yale changes their majors? Students change their majors all the time. Sometimes more then once. The last part just annoys me 'the you don't understand' always sounds like a swipe to me about Lorelai not going to college. Which drives me crazy because no Lorelai didn't go to college then she spent those years working hard to raise Rory. Its not like Lorelai blew off college. She was working and raising her daughter. Plus Lorelai eventually went to college for a degree.

[WhosThatGirl]

2 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

She's very rude during that talk. She refuses to answer questions as to why she's quitting Yale or listen to reason about trying a different major. Telling her mother that's not what Yale is for. Lorelai points out that's what college is for. Lorelai suggests trying different majors or going to Harvard when Rory points out she was working towards Harvard. Plus how is that not what college is for? Even Yale? No one at Yale changes their majors? Students change their majors all the time. Sometimes more then once. The last part just annoys me 'the you don't understand' always sounds like a swipe to me about Lorelai not going to college. Which drives me crazy because no Lorelai didn't go to college then she spent those years working hard to raise Rory. Its not like Lorelai blew off college. She was working and raising her daughter. Plus Lorelai eventually went to college for a degree.

Yup. That’s how I feel. It really always feels like a swipe at the mom. And Rory sure does love to swipe at her mom when she can. I still can’t get over how rude she is when Lorelei finds her after sleeping with Dean and she brings up Lorelei and Christopher and sherry being pregnant which no one knew about that until after but I digress. 

[andromeda331]

12 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Yup. That’s how I feel. It really always feels like a swipe at the mom. And Rory sure does love to swipe at her mom when she can. I still can’t get over how rude she is when Lorelei finds her after sleeping with Dean and she brings up Lorelei and Christopher and sherry being pregnant which no one knew about that until after but I digress. 

I still can't believe Rory expected Lorelai to be happy about sleeping with a married Dean. Then gets mad at Lorelai for ruining everything. Ah, Rory, you slept with a married man. He's not your Dean, he's Lindsay's Dean. I love everything Lorelai says to Rory in that scene but I still can't believe how Rory acted in that scene. I really expected it to start dawning on Rory during that talk. But nope, not at all. She just blamed her mother for ruining it.

Edited December 3, 2017 by andromeda331

[Kohola3]

14 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

I really expected it to start dawning on Rory during that talk.

I think that somewhere in the recesses of her mind, it did start to dawn.  But it's hard to say you were wrong when you wanted something so important to be right.  The easiest thing is just to fight back and blame someone else even when you know you screwed up.

[elang4]

28 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

I think that somewhere in the recesses of her mind, it did start to dawn.  But it's hard to say you were wrong when you wanted something so important to be right.  The easiest thing is just to fight back and blame someone else even when you know you screwed up.

I agree. You can see it dawning on Rory when Lorelai was asking if Dean said he was getting divorced or if he was definitely leaving Lindsey. But I think she was too in the moment and so wrapped up in her returning feelings for Dean that she lashed out at Lorelai. And then later when she saw Lindsey trying to organise the best meal for Dean after Rory had just slept with him again, she realised her mom was right and Lindsey obviously didn't know that their marriage was on the rocks and then that led to her decision in going to Europe.

[Katy M]

On ‎12‎/‎2‎/‎2017 at 7:17 PM, WhosThatGirl said:

Also Rory is rude to Lorelei when she’s like “so I’m going to drop out of college and not return” speech. And Lorelei asked questions about why and Rory said “because I don’t want to be a journalist anymore!” And Lorelei is like “okay fine change your major be undecided” and Rory shouted that she didn’t want to be wandering around aimlessly wasting money. Which again, Lorelei gets points for telling Rory she’s not paying it, nor is she taking out loans that probably her fellow classmates are. Rory had it made.

Rory was paying for it, eventually. She had made a payback arrangement with her grandparents.  Granted, she wasn't paying the interest that the others were, and wouldn't really have to worry about being sued or legal action being taken against her, but, until Christopher offered to pay, which was after this point, she wasn't getting free ride.

[WhosThatGirl]

37 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Rory was paying for it, eventually. She had made a payback arrangement with her grandparents.  Granted, she wasn't paying the interest that the others were, and wouldn't really have to worry about being sued or legal action being taken against her, but, until Christopher offered to pay, which was after this point, she wasn't getting free ride.

Okay. I forgot about that even so she was being a really big brat. And the way she was talking to her mother was the rudest thing ever. Because Lorelei didn’t know how “college worked” because she didn’t go, as she was raising Rory.

[andromeda331]

Another storyline I wish they would have done something with was in season seven when Rory writes that article about rich kids and Logan points out that Rory's too. She seemed surprised by it. Why is Rory surprised? What about her life screams she's still the same kid who grew up in Stars Hollow? Did she really still see herself that way? Yes, she ends up moving out of the apartment and in with Paris (although did they ever explain where Rory's getting money for rent? Lorelai? Christopher?). But that could have been a great time for Rory to explore how much she's changed since being exposed to her grandparents world and how she felt about that. Did she want to remain her mother's world, her grandparent's world, merge the two or find her own path? Does Logan know how Rory actually grew up? That she lived in a potting shed until she was eleven? That she didn't actually grow up with money and things? She wasn't exposed to it until she was sixteen and around her grandparents more? 

[WhoaWhoKnew]

Logan was right though. Rory always had money and influence, even in the shed. All Lorelai had to do was go to her parents if it got too hard, which it eventually did.