All Episodes Talk: Lorelai and Rory and the People They Love

[Hera]

On 8/24/2022 at 12:44 AM, scarynikki12 said:

What do we think Rory's plan was in the season 3 premiere? She dressed up for Jess, clearly expecting him to have waited for her all summer, so she would look nice for their reunion. But she was still with Dean. Even if her expectations for Jess and their reunion had been accurate what was her next move? Was Jess going to break up with Dean for her? Was Lorelai? Was she going to avoid Dean hoping he would eventually assume they were over? Do we think her excitement at reuniting with Jess would have given her a spine and for once she'd be the dumper in the relationship? She had the whole summer to think about her relationships with both boys, so she couldn't pretend to be confused about her feelings, and did nothing either way.

I think probably the fourth option: get together with Jess and then dump Dean. It's shitty, but the type of shitty that is believable (and pretty typical) of a 17 year old. Then she saw that Jess had someone else, so she changed her plan and stuck with Dean awhile longer and pretended that was what she wanted all along. Again, shitty, but believable.

[Keywestclubkid]

“Honestly Lorelei it’s not your looks that keep men away …. You should keep that in mind”

ok that was an ouch read 

[Kiki777]

Ha! Ones of the times I rather enjoy Emily’s mean streak.

[peacheslatour]

On 9/1/2022 at 10:43 AM, Keywestclubkid said:

“Honestly Lorelei it’s not your looks that keep men away …. You should keep that in mind”

ok that was an ouch read 

I hated how Emily was all about Lorelai "getting a man".

[Keywestclubkid]

36 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I hated how Emily was all about Lorelai "getting a man".

but it is realistic for some women tho ... I mean just look at the housewives esp Atlanta  to prove this point .. they throw around things about not having a man so much they should get royalties for the term by now LOL 

[Kiki777]

It’s funny how over time you see more and more of where the GG cultural references come from.  I’m in the middle of of watching Sophie’s Choice and Sophie is frolicking drunkenly in the street with her boyfriend and their friend Stingo.  The boyfriend jumps up on a lamppost and toasts his friend “To Stingo!” Like Colin-or-Finn does in the Balaikas episode 💡 I’d always thought ‘tostingo’ was just some weird version of ‘cheers’

[SJC]

2 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

I hated how Emily was all about Lorelai "getting a man".

For many years that was all that she knew. She had to have a man to provide for her. She knew nothing about working because you have to. She admitted this to Lorelai in S7. (the kayak conversation)
I will say that in AYITL she certainly began creating her own life as Emily Gilmore, not Mrs. Richard Gilmore.

[peacheslatour]

3 minutes ago, SJC said:

For many years that was all that she knew. She had to have a man to provide for her. She knew nothing about working because you have to. She admitted this to Lorelai in S7. (the kayak conversation)
I will say that in AYITL she certainly began creating her own life as Emily Gilmore, not Mrs. Richard Gilmore.

Yes, I know. I remember the kayak conversation. It just gets my hackles up. I was raised completely differently. My mother was a career woman and even my grandmother said "Learn to take care of yourself. Don't depend on some man to take care of you."

[SJC]

4 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

It just gets my hackles up. I was raised completely differently.

Same here. 😃
I was never pressured to get married/have kids. Thankfully !!

[scarynikki12]

So I watched Say Something the other day and I have to admit that Lauren played Lorelai as 100% in love with Luke. When the show was on the argument for why Luke and Lorelai never verbalized their feelings was that they showed them all the time. Now, we can and will disagree on how well that came across but there is evidence to support. Scott demonstrated Luke's feelings more than Lauren did with Lorelai's but it was there. When Lorelai was desperate to find Luke after the vow renewal and their interactions when she found him show a woman who is completely in love with her boyfriend and terrified to lose him. She even verbalized Luke was the man she wanted to be with. 

She also demonstrates a glorious level of hate for Christopher which further supports my theory that Rory was the only thing tying them together and they'd have lost contact as soon as high school was over if it weren't for the pregnancy. Lorelai was far more forgiving than she should have been but when she was angry her true feelings came out and I love it. 

Anyway, back to the show. I speculated a while back that Luke and Lorelai started saying 'I love you' after their season 5 reconciliation and the way Lauren portrayed Lorelai in SS has me completely certain. Now, this also makes it total bullshit they only let us witness them verbalizing their feelings during two shit episodes but what's done is done. 

Now let's talk season 6. The two halves should have been mirrors. The first half we see Lorelai not wanting to start planning the wedding until things are right with Rory and Luke agreed to follow her lead even though he disagrees with some of the details. The first half ends with their reunion and Lorelai is ready to start moving forward with wedding plans. The second half brings up the April reveal and what should have happened is Luke, feeling overwhelmed by her existence, Anna's lies, and adjusting to this new reality, asks Lorelai to pause planning the wedding until things are right with April (them forming a relationship). Lorelai agrees to follow his lead even though she disagrees with his specific approach. The season ends with April calling Luke 'Dad' and Luke telling Lorelai he's ready to start planning their wedding (maybe a little joint custody thrown in because fuck Anna). Then my season 7 dream of Lorelai and Emily arguing over wedding plans could have been fulfilled.

I do think the mirror approach was the initial plan before the Ps had their tantrum. The two halves have a ton of structural similarities that support this theory. But they had their tantrum and we had all of that nonsense.

Back in the TWOP days we all came to agree that Anna's big issue with the birthday party was likely that she correctly assumed Luke would fuck it up and lose some of the Dad Shine for April. When Lorelai made the party a success and helped boost Luke in April's eyes Anna was PISSED. On the surface Anna does a good job of sounding reasonable when she talks to Lorelai at the store, and many of her concerns were valid, but her motivations were anything but. We've debated over the years as to whether Lorelai chose not to pursue financial help or hold Chris accountable for his neglect of Rory due to wanting her all to herself. Now, I've never bought that but I do think that can be applied to Anna. Anna clearly had no intention of Luke ever finding out about April, showed no remorse for keeping them apart, and tried to act like he was neglectful like Christopher in the custody hearing with Mrs. Teasley. During the talk with Lorelai Anna makes a reference to getting married again and concern that April will get attached only for Lorelai to disappear one day. This tells us that at some point April had a stepfather and this exact scenario played out. Depending on when the divorce occurred it may have been the real catalyst for April deciding to discover her birth father (and would have been an interesting subplot). We know Lorelai had these same concerns for Rory back in season 1 but I firmly believe Max would have stayed in Rory's life (had she wanted of course) if he and Lorelai had gone through with the wedding and later divorced. Poor April was abandoned by her unnamed stepfather but the Max we met would never have abandoned stepdaughter Rory. Anna also makes a point that she keeps her boyfriends from April unless they've been together for a long time as part of her argument for why Lorelai shouldn't be around April but Luke and Lorelai's relationship was a decade old at that point and they'd been dating just under two years. Also, Anna had no issue with April meeting everyone in Stars Hollow which means that she'd have been fine with Lorelai getting to know April and becoming a regular part of her life if she was still just Luke's friend who stops by for coffee multiple times per day. Somehow that's more reliable and stable than them being a couple planning to get married? Yes, engaged isn't married but married isn't a guarantee of forever which Anna herself knows since she's divorced. I wish Luke and Lorelai had been a united front against Anna's unreasonableness because you know those goalposts would have kept moving. Anna could have decided they needed to be married for a period of time before April should be around Lorelai, or that any kids they had would take up all their time and attention so April should stay away until they're older, or hell let's circle back around to Lorelai's teenage pregnancy and use that against her. Anna was never going to be satisfied and we should have seen them stand up to her before season 7.

[scarynikki12]

Another thing I don't understand is the episode when all the street names in Stars Hollow changed. Specifically I don't understand why TAYLOR would be on board with any part of town being named Sores And Boils. It's completely in character for Taylor to choose some town businesses, pretend to change their streets to awful things, and then get them to donate to the Historical Society in exchange for nicer street names. What I don't understand is why he would push Lorelai so far that she'd decide to keep the awful street name and then just let it go. Taylor, first and foremost, would be horrified at any street being called Sores And Boils Alley. He was always getting on Luke to decorate the diner and arranged for constant town festivals to make Stars Hollow look good for the tourists. It would have made way more sense for Taylor to scam the money from Lorelai, rename the street Dragonfly Lane, and then she realize she got scammed as she told the story to Sookie and Michel. 

[Taryn74]

2 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

It would have made way more sense for Taylor to scam the money from Lorelai, rename the street Dragonfly Lane, and then she realize she got scammed as she told the story to Sookie and Michel. 

This will heretofore be my headcanon. *chef's kiss*

[chitowngirl]

I would think the USPS would have something to say about changing street names like that!

[chessiegal]

Changing street names is up to local jurisdictions, not the USPS.

[Keywestclubkid]

He patted me on the head, Michel, like a dog...

[Keywestclubkid]

Mia saying her MASSIVE house was small ... yes compared to Emilys house im sure it would be considered small but the interior looked twice as large has Lorelai's with curtained French doors everywhere 

[chessiegal]

UPtv is back to Season 1. Whoot! Love these early episodes.

[andromeda331]

9 hours ago, chessiegal said:

UPtv is back to Season 1. Whoot! Love these early episodes.

Those are the best.

[Kiki777]

I caught the finale and for the first time noticed Liz (Luke’s sister and Jess’s mom) was at the going away party shouting ‘we love you Rory!’  Has she ever actually met her, let alone shared a scene with her?

[andromeda331]

9 hours ago, Kiki777 said:

I caught the finale and for the first time noticed Liz (Luke’s sister and Jess’s mom) was at the going away party shouting ‘we love you Rory!’  Has she ever actually met her, let alone shared a scene with her?

I don't think she ever did. 

[peacheslatour]

I was watching SVU today and thinking what a lucrative second career David Sutcliffe could have had playing rapey scumbags in the Law and Order universe.

[scarynikki12]

Theory time! I don't think Jess started blowing off school for shifts at Walmart until after the hockey episode. That episode he picked up another shift after the one he was already working on Friday night. We know because he mentioned it when Lorelai told him about Rory being mad about him not calling. The next night he shows up at the Crap Shack looking for Rory only for Lorelai to give her speech about how Rory likes structure, making plans, and how he should get his act together. Fast forward two episodes and Luke learns Jess has been working forty hours at Walmart. He theorizes Jess has been picking up shifts on weekends only for Lorelai to mention "he's been duding it with Rory on the weekends" and this leads to her suggesting he's skipping school in favor of work. Two months separate the hockey and Poe episodes and the episodes tended to be set during the time they aired so Jess had been increasingly skipping school for two months. Jess learns he won't graduate only a couple of episodes/weeks after that which tracks for  how far he'd fallen behind. 

So, if my theory is right, Jess did take Lorelai's words to heart in the hockey episode and was trying to be a better boyfriend for Rory. Now, he could have sat down with her to figure out when they should have Date Night each week based on his work schedule. But he's Jess so he just blew it off. I'm sure in his mind it made sense because he was working when Rory was in school and made himself more available when she wasn't. He also considered Stars Hollow High beneath him so it probably never occurred to him they wouldn't let him graduate for not attending or doing schoolwork.

[Taryn74]

I am loving this theory @scarynikki12! I'm the resident Jess apologist, so take this as you will, but one thing I've always noticed about Jess is that he does try to learn from his mistakes, even if the way he goes about it isn't always "right" or even gets noticed. One example is how he stopped doing the pranks once Rory clued him in that Luke was taking flack from the townies over it, to the point that there was a special town meeting to discuss The Jess Issue. He didn't become some model Stars Hollow Citizen or anything, but he cut out the stupid pranks. Another one is how he stepped up and arranged the wake for Uncle Louie after Rory chewed him out for not helping enough in the diner while Luke was trying to arrange the funeral. And how he stopped wearing the t-shirts that were scaring the customers (but not without first dressing in a flannel and backwards baseball cap to get a dig in at Luke....LOLOL.....).

Anyway, my point is, once he was told how his actions were hurting others, he usually stepped up and tried to do better. Not always successfully, but he did try.

1 hour ago, scarynikki12 said:

He also considered Stars Hollow High beneath him so it probably never occurred to him they wouldn't let him graduate for not attending or doing schoolwork.

Yeah, and quite frankly coming from big city schools, he was probably used to students passing and graduating whether they were keeping up and/or attending classes or not. He probably really did think that as long as he was smart enough (and he was) it didn't really matter that much if he was following the school's rules or not. Small town life was truly that foreign to him.

[scarynikki12]

I agree Jess unlocking the diner so Miss Patty could come in and set up the wake for Louie was him taking Rory's admonishments to heart but I don't give him any more credit than that. He didn't help her set up, or call people, or anything. The wake wasn't even his idea. He unlocked the door, ate some food, and maybe helped clean up if Luke told him to. To be fair, there's nothing wrong with him only unlocking the door and participating by eating the food. It was Miss Patty's idea, based on her own love for Luke, to set this up so she was in charge of everything that mattered. I can see revival Jess planning a wake to make Luke happy but season 2 Jess would never have considered it.

[Taryn74]

4 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

He didn't help her set up, or call people, or anything. The wake wasn't even his idea.

You're right, I forgot he told Rory the wake was Miss Patty's doing. It's been a while since I watched DUAV.

[andromeda331]

On 11/16/2022 at 9:08 PM, scarynikki12 said:

Theory time! I don't think Jess started blowing off school for shifts at Walmart until after the hockey episode. That episode he picked up another shift after the one he was already working on Friday night. We know because he mentioned it when Lorelai told him about Rory being mad about him not calling. The next night he shows up at the Crap Shack looking for Rory only for Lorelai to give her speech about how Rory likes structure, making plans, and how he should get his act together. Fast forward two episodes and Luke learns Jess has been working forty hours at Walmart. He theorizes Jess has been picking up shifts on weekends only for Lorelai to mention "he's been duding it with Rory on the weekends" and this leads to her suggesting he's skipping school in favor of work. Two months separate the hockey and Poe episodes and the episodes tended to be set during the time they aired so Jess had been increasingly skipping school for two months. Jess learns he won't graduate only a couple of episodes/weeks after that which tracks for  how far he'd fallen behind. 

So, if my theory is right, Jess did take Lorelai's words to heart in the hockey episode and was trying to be a better boyfriend for Rory. Now, he could have sat down with her to figure out when they should have Date Night each week based on his work schedule. But he's Jess so he just blew it off. I'm sure in his mind it made sense because he was working when Rory was in school and made himself more available when she wasn't. He also considered Stars Hollow High beneath him so it probably never occurred to him they wouldn't let him graduate for not attending or doing schoolwork.

That's an interesting idea. I always wondered how Jess and Rory's relationship would have gone if she hadn't told him to erase the message she left for him. Rory wasn't happy not having a plan but wouldn't talk to him about it. Maybe he did listen to the message and realized what Lorelai said was right and decide to do better.

[chessiegal]

UPtv has started their Thanksgiving marathon. Watching the second episode, the elder Gilmore's dining room table is much smaller than in later episodes and Richard speaks of his mother in the past tense as if she's dead. ☺️

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, chessiegal said:

UPtv has started their Thanksgiving marathon. Watching the second episode, the elder Gilmore's dining room table is much smaller than in later episodes and Richard speaks of his mother in the past tense as if she's dead. ☺️

If it was Emily talking about her mother-in-law it would make more sense and be kind of funny. 

[Taryn74]

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

If it was Emily talking about her mother-in-law it would make more sense and be kind of funny. 

Oh now that's FUNNY. 😅 This change will be my headcanon from now on.

[chessiegal]

I was watching the episode where Lorelai and Rory go to the 4 Thanksgiving dinners. When they arrive at Richard and Emily's, there's a guy playing their grand piano. Emily says "That's Brad. I found him at Nordstroms." I burst out laughing. I'd forgotten that line.

[Kiki777]

Why would Rory ask Colin and Finn to move her stuff when she moved out of her grandparents’ house?  They were Logan’s friends, and she’d just had a huge fight with him.  And then again why did Logan ask them to move her stuff from Paris’ apartment to his?  He could have easily afforded professional movers and Colin and Finn don’t seem like fans of manual (or any kind of) labor.

[chessiegal]

Bouncing in and out of the marathon on UPtv. Kelly Bishop is sooo thin in AYITL.

[BlancheDevoreaux]

13 hours ago, chessiegal said:

Bouncing in and out of the marathon on UPtv. Kelly Bishop is sooo thin in AYITL.

And yet, still the star of every scene she's in! 

AYITL has such a different feel than Gilmore Girls. I do think, though, that between seasons 4, 5, 6, and AYITL, it's clear ASP never planned for Rory to be successful in journalism which somehow I find refreshing.

[chessiegal]

3 minutes ago, BlancheDevoreaux said:

And yet, still the star of every scene she's in! 

So true! I thought with the marathon that ended, UPtv would go back to the pilot today, but they're not. They are starting with my 2 favorite episodes - Scene in a Mall and The Reigning Lorelai. Kelly Bishop knocks it out of the park in both episodes.

[peacheslatour]

22 minutes ago, chessiegal said:

So true! I thought with the marathon that ended, UPtv would go back to the pilot today, but they're not. They are starting with my 2 favorite episodes - Scene in a Mall and The Reigning Lorelai. Kelly Bishop knocks it out of the park in both episodes.

I love how open minded she is in the food court. Not what I would expect from Queen Emily.

[SJC]

7 hours ago, BlancheDevoreaux said:

it's clear ASP never planned for Rory to be successful in journalism which somehow I find refreshing.

💯

7 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

I love how open minded she is in the food court. Not what I would expect from Queen Emily.

And so willing to be vulnerable to Lorelai.

[SJC]

On 11/28/2022 at 11:55 AM, BlancheDevoreaux said:

it's clear ASP never planned for Rory to be successful in journalism

Huge agree.

[andromeda331]

On 11/28/2022 at 6:46 PM, SJC said:

💯

And so willing to be vulnerable to Lorelai.

I love both of those moments so much. I thought at the time it was a step forward in their relationship. I wish it had been.

[SJC]

Same here.
Sad to say ASP hates happy relationships. 

[Keywestclubkid]

just Randomly rewatching the first episode of season 2 and it strikes me that Emily and Richard treat Dean the exact same way that Logans family treated Rory at that dinner right down to the hes not good enough and this family has responsibilities and certain people can hold you back as he sits at the table .... they were no better .. the only difference was Rory actually takes up for dean ...

Edited April 17, 2023 by Keywestclubkid

[peacheslatour]

21 hours ago, Keywestclubkid said:

just Randomly rewatching the first episode of season 2 and it strikes me that Emily and Richard treat Dean the exact same way that Logans family treated Rory at that dinner right down to the hes not good enough and this family has responsibilities and certain people can hold you back as he sits at the table .... they were no better .. the only difference was Rory actually takes up for dean ...

My mom came from old money, she would be appalled at the lack of good manners these supposed "upper crust" people display on this show.

[Eeksquire]

Multiple gripes about Teach Me Tonight, but the primary one is: Lorelei is SOOOOO worried about Rory that she has to sleep in a chair in her bedroom, but left her alone in the HOSPITAL? A minor, who cannot consent to her own medical treatment, but sure. A+ parenting, Lor.

[voiceover]

On 11/28/2022 at 11:04 AM, chessiegal said:

The Reigning Lorelai. Kelly Bishop knocks it out of the park 

If you didn’t already appreciate Emily, this ep should’ve nudged you right over the line.  I laughed all the way through her “day-drinking” scene, esp at the line about shoving toothpicks for the canapés into her late mother-in-law’s mouth.  Brav-O, Em!  And Kelly was note-perfect.

That’s why one of the things the series blew — big-time! was *not having Emily commiserate with Luke over the “suitability” question.  She could’ve at least been of two minds over L&L, based solely on what Lorelai Sr wrote in that letter.

[SJC]

On 4/18/2023 at 12:19 PM, peacheslatour said:

My mom came from old money, she would be appalled at the lack of good manners these supposed "upper crust" people display on this show.

I think Emily has dreadful manners.
I have heard people say that they learned from her...that just baffles me..unless they really mean they learned how not to act.

[qtpye]

4 hours ago, SJC said:

I think Emily has dreadful manners.
I have heard people say that they learned from her...that just baffles me..unless they really mean they learned how not to act.

The parents have to be kind of insufferable because that would make Lorelai a selfish idiot for running away at 16.

I love the actors that played Richard and Emily but they were insufferable dolts a lot of the time.

[chitowngirl]

Good manners are supposed to put people at ease, not point out all the ways one is doing something wrong, especially in the condescending manner Emily and Richard did, especially towards Luke.

And why did Emily’s manner toward Luke change? In early seasons, she tells him they are idiots for not dating and is convinced that they are because Lorelei talks about him a lot. She didn’t seem upset about this possibility.

Edited July 9, 2023 by chitowngirl

[scarynikki12]

Can you imagine how awesome it would have been for Emily to take to Luke the entire series? She didn't have to be Team Luke when it came to Lorelai's love life but she didn't have to be so openly antagonistic and superior to him either. Richard would always have to warm to him since he thought owning a diner was a lowly profession but Emily turning to be like Lorelai and appreciative of Luke's straightforward personality would have been a nice twist.

[Chaser]

I started a Gilmore Girls rewatch and was pleasantly surprised to find this forum still semi active. Decided to post a few random thoughts.

Dean is really a special duck. Few characters get worse with every viewing. I remember watching the show when it was airing and liking Dean initially. That waned as the show went on but I didn’t remember him as being that bad. Later rewatches made me realize he was basically a tampon commercial with all those red flags. That scene were he blew up at Lindsay? First watch, that’s guilt and fear. Now? That felt like he was angry she even existed.

Also Dean related, Lorelai was really weird about him. She felt more Team Dean than Team Rory. I would be so concerned about a boyfriend who constantly needed to call her, know where she was at and she was genuinely afraid to upset.  I wish she would have sat down Rory in S2 and said, you aren’t sure if you want to be with Jess and you don’t seem to really want to be with Dean (also he’s getting creepy), let’s try being single and focus on school and friends instead.

Speaking of Jess, I was really disappointed in Lorelai’s lack of empathy of his situation and Luke’s. Jess was a punk absolutely. He was teenager who got abandoned by one parent and dumped by the another. Forced to uproot to a place he didn’t know, with an Uncle he hardly knew. I understand him being a punk. Lorelai I don’t understand though. She tried the bare minimum and had her back up seemingly from the get go. I hated how she went off on Luke after the accident. 

 

 

[Taryn74]

1 hour ago, Chaser said:

I started a Gilmore Girls rewatch and was pleasantly surprised to find this forum still semi active. Decided to post a few random thoughts.

Agree with everything! Especially about Dean. For someone who was supposed to be such a supportive parent, Lorelai really bent over backwards to ignore all the red flags with regards to his relationship with Rory.

[andromeda331]

I don't think Dean is a bad guy. I don't hate him until he cheats on his wife. But I agree about how weird Lorelai was Team Dean. I really don't get why. He's Rory's first boyfriend and those rarely last. Rory and Dean really didn't have anything in common. Even Jess hadn't shown up Rory and Dean would have broken up. Lorelai knows that so why was she so invested?