The Other Duggars: The Lost Girls and Amy

[satrunrose]

13 hours ago, Kokapetl said:

Would learning disabilities still be a problem when the whole "class" is several years behind where they should be?

I've always thought that as long as Josie could walk, feed herself, dress herself and talk with some coherence the Duggars would never notice if there is something wrong. Most learning issues really get diagnosed when kids are seen to struggle with academic tasks. Since there are no academic tasks in the TTC, I honestly think no one will ever know what's going on with Josie. 

[GeeGolly]

3 hours ago, satrunrose said:

I've always thought that as long as Josie could walk, feed herself, dress herself and talk with some coherence the Duggars would never notice if there is something wrong. Most learning issues really get diagnosed when kids are seen to struggle with academic tasks. Since there are no academic tasks in the TTC, I honestly think no one will ever know what's going on with Josie. 

I agree, however she has some pre school-age differences too. Not diagnosing, but guessing maybe mild cerebral palsy. You'd think that even a checked-out mom would notice some differences from the previous 18 kids. And I would think there would be required medical follow-ups, with the care for a preemie. Maybe they know and are just praying it away.

[Arwen Evenstar]

It's ok to pray about a medical or developmental condition; what's not ok is not to seek other help that's readily available when you know such a condition exists.  When Josie was born, they used every means available to make sure she made it; why not help her now?

[lookeyloo]

I am in no was defending them, but since we know a lot goes on behind the scenes - is it at all possible that there is some sort of help that we don't know about?   We just see a random picture here and there lately.  It would have to be stealth since they wouldn't want to be seen going into any kind of physical/occupational therapy office.

[Absolom]

26 minutes ago, lookeyloo said:

is it at all possible that there is some sort of help that we don't know about?  

I think that's quite likely.  Josie was taken to the children's hospital in Little Rock for check ups for quite some time after her discharge due to her extreme prematurity.  Michelle said in an interview that Josie was getting therapy.  IIRC it was speech therapy.  I think in this instance it might be a good thing that they aren't televising any therapy that Josie is getting or publicizing andy problems she may have. 

[cmr2014]

2 minutes ago, Absolom said:

I think that's quite likely.  Josie was taken to the children's hospital in Little Rock for check ups for quite some time after her discharge due to her extreme prematurity.  Michelle said in an interview that Josie was getting therapy.  IIRC it was speech therapy.  I think in this instance it might be a good thing that they aren't televising any therapy that Josie is getting or publicizing andy problems she may have. 

It's possible, but I don't think it's likely.

That type of therapy requires consistentcy. The Duggars aren't capable of consistently putting dinner on the table, bathing their kids, or anything else. They are down 2 J'Slaves, so who would take her to her appointments and provide the one-on-one time with her that therapy would require? Plus, they are off in the stink bus about half of every year.

Josie may be their special snowflake and they may pay more attention to her than they do the other Lost Girls, but that's a pretty low bar. Providing her with therapy would imply that they believed that it had some value -- and there is no sign that they believe that at all. There was a scene, or article, some time in the past where J'chelle explains that some of the kids have learning disabilities but because they homeschool, she is able to give them all of the special attention that they need.

Remember, too, that there is already a life plan in place for Josie: she will loll around the TTH for the next 10-12 years and then get married  and start pushing out babies. There is nothing in that life plan the requires her to read, or to function at an adult level (see Jill or Priscilla Waller).

[Arwen Evenstar]

It would be regarded as a sin by most people if they didn't provide her with proper therapy.

So Michelle says her other kids have learning disabilities...doesn't one actually have to  have enough learning material to assess that?  Dyslexia, ADHD, are all learning disabilities which require some patience and consistency to allow the child to overcome his/ her challenges.  I don't see consistency in the Duggar home for anything other than brainwashing.

Even if Josie won't seek higher education, she deserves to be on the same level as kids her age, be able to read and write at that level and elocute properly.

[kokapetl]

Josie's tense ditch photoshoot where she could t unclench was a little odd

This video from 2014 has her less tightly wound.

[kokapetl]

Her real father is an interocitor salesman

[GeeGolly]

And if you look at most other pictures with Josie, someone is almost always holding her, or holding her hands/arms. This is not to snark on her, but early intervention, whether physical or cognitive is the key to achieving the greatest potential in overcoming any obstacles.

[ChiCricket]

When I watched that video, the grammie in me was thinking :

"she shouldn't be standing on that chair! She's going to fall off !"

[Arwen Evenstar]

Poor Josie.  As much relieved as we would be to be able to confirm she was really getting help, I had no wish to watch this little struggle in front of the cameras. Maybe the Duggars have some decency after all.

[BitterApple]

I remember when Will from the Little Couple was going to speech therapy and his parents were given lessons to do with him at home. Even if by some miracle Josie was seeing a specialist, I can't envision Boob, Michelle or the J'slaves following through and working with her outside her appointments. Their version of Homefooling was a joke back when they still had four daughters doing the heavy lifting. I can't imagine how pathetic it is right now.

[cmr2014]

9 hours ago, Kokapetl said:

Josie's tense ditch photoshoot where she could t unclench was a little odd

This video from 2014 has her less tightly wound.

I am not re-posting this here to encourage anyone to watch it.

This is simply awful. I made this point on another thread about another awful video, but I just watched this and was appalled. 

First of all, it's really a problem to produce entertaining videos when you don't watch television or movies, or even have any exposure to the fine arts or quality photography. If they howlers want to get into video production, they need some actual training. Being able to operate a camera isn't the extent of the criteria for producing good videos. They're no little kids any more, and simply holding the camera doesn't make them videographers.

Josie is just a mess. She may be the favorite, but she looks like hell. She's never clean; her hair is never combed; and she is never shown not behaving like a feral animal. I realize that she's playing for laughs in this video, but it's just not really funny when we never see her behaving any other way.

[jilliannatalia]

On 5/6/2016 at 3:23 PM, Henri205 said:

 

I'm obviously not in any better position to diagnose Josie than is anyone else here, but she reminds me a great deal of a preemie student I taught in kindergarten in Utah who received a mild Intellectual Disability diagnosis. My student also had a mild cerebral palsy diagnosis. All we can really do is hope that whatever Josie's diagnosis may be if there is one, she's receiving some sort of therapy. I agree that it isn't working for the family to say that Josie is advanced for her age (i recall one of the older girls saying this when "19 Kids and Counting"  was still on) but then not to expect her to perform the chores that are demanded of the other girls in the family who are her age..

[jilliannatalia]

Quote

So Michelle says her other kids have learning disabilities...doesn't one actually have to  have enough learning material to assess that?  Dyslexia, ADHD, are all learning disabilities which require some patience and consistency to allow the child to overcome his/ her challenges.  I don't see consistency in the Duggar home for anything other than brainwashing.

In order for a public school to diagnose a learning disability, a special education teacher and a psychologist have to sign off on a discrepancy between intellectual ability and academic achievement in at least one area that is NOT the result of insufficient or nonexistent instruction. I don't know how anyone could possibly make that judgment in the case of the Duggars. It's sometimes presumed when a single child in a family of home-schoolers displays academic difficulties that because all the other children seem to be doing fine academically, most likely the parent WAS educating the child and that lack of education or insufficient education is not the root of the problem. In any event, it would be far from the first time a special ed. teacher and psychologist perjured themselves on IEP forms in order to provide the help a student needs regardless of the reason. In the case of the Duggars, though, Michelle apparently said she was able to provide all the special help her children needed. 

Children should be able to sue their parents for failing to educate them if such turns out to be the case.

[sometimesy]

Josie is full of piss and vinegar. Her parents attention and affection may have ignited and maintained that spark in her. I'm not an expert, so I'm not seeing the signs of delays that other posters see. The one video of 'her' favourite verse compared to Calli Bates history lesson at the same age gave me pause, but I don't think it's because Josie is stupid, I think it's her teachers who have minimal expectations set for Josie. We've all met those kids that 'cute' on demand to win attention, but come off to people outside the family as whiny and inappropriate. I hope that's what Josie is doing. I hope she remains a little bit independent and manipulative because those qualities will serve her well in that environment. 

[satrunrose]

On June 13, 2016 at 0:39 PM, sometimesy said:

... I don't think it's because Josie is stupid, I think it's her teachers who have minimal expectations set for Josie. We've all met those kids that 'cute' on demand to win attention... 

This. I don't know if Josie does have any issues but I am pretty sure that the only expectation placed on the Howlers and Lost Girls is to 1. Be able to use the Gothard lingo 2. Play nice for the cameras 3. Be obedient and 4. Be able to fend for yourself without bothering the sister moms or especially the queen bee, J'chelle. Josie can do all that so no one is ever going to push her hard enough to see if there's any other, oh, I don't know, vital life-skills she may be missing. 

Edited June 16, 2016 by satrunrose

[louannems]

There is a new video up on the Duggar Facebook.  It is wishing Michael a happy 5th birthday.  The littles are gathered around JB in their modesty swimsuits.  What really jumps out at me about this video is Jackson.  He just seems so very, very young!  He is acting like a 6 year old, instead of what, 14?

[kokapetl]

1 hour ago, louannems said:

There is a new video up on the Duggar Facebook.  It is wishing Michael a happy 5th birthday.  The littles are gathered around JB in their modesty swimsuits.  What really jumps out at me about this video is Jackson.  He just seems so very, very young!  He is acting like a 6 year old, instead of what, 14?

Here we go. Jackson is 12, next oldest is Jordyn, she's 7.

Edited June 16, 2016 by Kokapetl

[ChocolateAddict]

Just goes to show how stunted those kids are.  In the real world, Jackson would be one year away from high school (at least in our system) yet he is acting much, much younger and hanging out with kids half his age.  I find it really quite sad. 

Clearly Boob hasn't given up on a big reality TV comeback, could those kids have been any more coached?  They all stand still while Michael stares at the camera and Boob awkwardly holds his shoulders and completes the monologue until they are given the cue to run off again. Yeah, completely normal behaviour...

[birkenstock]

Want to shout out McKynzie (or however you spell her name) in pink.  She still has some spirit and showed her muscles after Michael did. Hope she can keep that childlike energy as long as possible.... It's so sad to hope a 7 year old can still be a kid.

That video would have been 1000% better if Anna or Jana was in it rather than Jim Bob. We know he's only involved with the kids when he needs props. 

Edited June 16, 2016 by birkenstock

[sometimesy]

9 hours ago, birkenstock said:

Want to shout out McKynzie (or however you spell her name) in pink.  She still has some spirit and showed her muscles after Michael did. Hope she can keep that childlike energy as long as possible.... It's so sad to hope a 7 year old can still be a kid.

That video would have been 1000% better if Anna or Jana was in it rather than Jim Bob. We know he's only involved with the kids when he needs props. 

This is an example of the boob inventory video system.  (Michael is a really cute birthday boy)

Oh Jackson. Well at least he is having fun and 12-year-olds come in a real variety of maturity levels, so there is hope for the kid. 

Edited June 16, 2016 by sometimesy

[Arwen Evenstar]

Jackson looks rather small for a 12 year old.  He may just be a late bloomer. I'm more worried about him being stunted emotionally and intellectually than him being smaller in stature. Maybe he's fasting...being sarcastic as this is what other Fundy families have claimed when the wraith like appearance of their teen male children gets noticed.

[kokapetl]

Johannah is an age appropriate friend for Jackson, but I guess BFF Johannah was busy making lunch for 25. 

[louannems]

11 minutes ago, Kokapetl said:

Johannah is an age appropriate friend for Jackson, but I guess BFF Johannah was busy making lunch for 25. 

Opening ALL those cans for soupy, sloppy casseroles!

[Arwen Evenstar]

No doubt more cooking from cans is going to be a necessity given 30 people to feed and not much income.

[lulu69]

12 hours ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

No doubt more cooking from cans is going to be a necessity given 30 people to feed and not much income.

Oh no. They'll be fine with or without teevee money (dripping w/sarcasm)

[JoanArc]

14 hours ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

No doubt more cooking from cans is going to be a necessity given 30 people to feed and not much income.

As long as Michelle has and endless latte supply, they could care less what the kids eat.

[MunichNark]

Those Duggar boys seem very late bloomers. Of course, not having anything stimulating them mentally is a big minus, plus they don't mingle with all sorts where they could actually learn something.

The cooking continues to baffle me. I've just made red lentil orange soup, and it's not even 9am here - took me all of 10 minutes to make. Granted, they'd have to use bigger quantities, but fresh decent food is not difficult.

[Churchhoney]

4 hours ago, MunichNark said:

Those Duggar boys seem very late bloomers. Of course, not having anything stimulating them mentally is a big minus, plus they don't mingle with all sorts where they could actually learn something.

The cooking continues to baffle me. I've just made red lentil orange soup, and it's not even 9am here - took me all of 10 minutes to make. Granted, they'd have to use bigger quantities, but fresh decent food is not difficult.

The thing is, though, the "adults" here were brought up in mid-America, big-time redneck country in an era when "convenience foods" were the be-all and end-all of American living, perhaps especially among the people who were only first or second generation in moving away from the farm-and/or-huge-garden-to-feed-us way of life. So that's not only what they're used to cooking it's what they're used to eating. I don't doubt a bit that those foods are the things that taste far and away the best to them, besides feeling more familiar as kitchen items. That's just the way it is. Those were the foods of their childhoods and they taste like home and hearth to them, I'm sure. Plus, in the days of their childhoods and in small towns and suburbs (as opposed to cities), the cans-and-convenience-foods route was generally looked on as the upwardly mobile way to live -- differentiating you from the rural poor who still had to grub in their gardens for eats.

These are not educated people or thoughtful people or, really, rich people (despite TLC) or health enthusiasts or adventurous livers or any of the other kinds of people who grow up with cans 'n' convenience but then have a natural bent to look another way for food. I expect they're eating pretty much the way everyone around them and everyone they know eats, too. It mainly looks different and outrageous to many of us, I expect, because they have the million children. With that volume of children to feed and nourish, the absurdity of doing it with frozen lasagna, tater tots and green-bean casserole becomes obvious (at least to food snobs like a lot of us). But I would bet that the Duggars' cooking and eating habits are pretty standard among their own crowd and neighbors. Americans don't have a centuries old tradition of daily shopping in fresh-food markets and more than we'd imagine don't know what broccoli or lentils are. (and many of those who know what they are definitely won't eat them)

Edited June 18, 2016 by Churchhoney

[MunichNark]

That's a very thoughtful post. Thanks hun:-)

It's true that I don't really understand american culture of course. I am but a bystander there.  Convenience food is not a huge thing in Germany yet, there's a bgger market in the UK/Ireland, but the selections here are very small indeed.

Edit, I didn't grow up with all those fancy foods either. The 70s were different after all. But I expanded my horizons......

I suppose you are right, the Duggars aren't exactly known for the profound thinking skills. And I believe you lot do have a huge selection of ready made meals.

Such a shame - I'd love to take on some of those kids and show them how easy and quick good food could be.

Edited June 18, 2016 by MunichNark

[Barb23]

7 hours ago, MunichNark said:

Those Duggar boys seem very late bloomers. Of course, not having anything stimulating them mentally is a big minus, plus they don't mingle with all sorts where they could actually learn something.

The cooking continues to baffle me. I've just made red lentil orange soup, and it's not even 9am here - took me all of 10 minutes to make. Granted, they'd have to use bigger quantities, but fresh decent food is not difficult.

I think the same thing when I'm cooking for my family - why can't the Duggars cook this?  Churchhoney - your post was great & i can see in these large type families, not too healthy  recipes being handed down to the next generation cuz that's what they are used to.  Even recently we saw how Benessa thought their Couscous Chicken Salad recipe was the bomb when the rest of us have been eating variations of it for years. Or when Anna had to have the nutritionist lady show her how to bake fish & veggies when they were in DC.  Anna was all nervous if JoshUa would like it  since he's used to her overly processed cheesy Chicken-etti.  (Almost gagged just typing that.)

On a side note, I saw an interview this week of a cookbook author who grew up on a farm in Africa.  She  was shocked when she came to America to see we had canned vegetables & fruit.  Of course her first question was why get your things out of  a can when fresh is available?   She was used to going out & picking what she needed from their own farm.  

[BitterApple]

Keep it klassy, 'Murica.

I can actually picture that being Amy and DUI Dill's life in about two or three years.

Edited June 18, 2016 by BitterApple

[Sew Sumi]

Famy can't live off her People cover and z-list Couples Therapy show money forever. I doubt Shop Maude and her other Insta sponsors are paying her that much to " model" their wares. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

Smaller towns often don't offer the variety of foods that us city slickers enjoy.  Many of these folks just are well used to the staple canned corn, green beans, mixed veg, baked beans, and fruit cocktail served with meat and potatoes or Mac and cheese in a box.  These represent the most banal of the American culinary experience, but at least 3 generations have been raised on them. Mr. Evenstar now in his late 50's recalls the first time he was served beans from a can. He was horrified and thought his mom didn't love him anymore.

At one time, breastfeeding was out because giving the baby formula was seen as a sign of affluence and only impoverished mothers nursed, After rating several generations of sickly children with all types of allergies, now "breast is best", just like eating things from cans is now seen as not as good for you as fresh.

[kokapetl]

I think this is why the Duggar women don't show leg:

[Sew Sumi]

I saw a horrible one with Famy in a too-short romper today. Despite what Dillon says, girlfriend needs to cut back on the beer and cheetos. She is pear shaped, and it's almost inevitable (unless she starves herself) that her butt and thighs are going to start...expressing themselves as she enters her 30's and beyond. 

[Joe Jitsu913]

1 hour ago, Kokapetl said:

I think this is why the Duggar women don't show leg:

She has what I refer to as tree trunk legs. I have them too and the only skirts I will wear are maxi skirts that are floor length. 

[Sew Sumi]

I only criticize Famy's shape because I have (or had at her age) the exact same body. I don't think I wore a mini dress after age 25. Well, I had one that I wore when I was probably considered underweight within a year or two of my wedding. But other than that, if I wear dresses at all, you ain't seeing my knees. 

IOW, IF I wore dresses/skirts (which is seriously a two or three times a year thing), I'd fit right in with Duggar Dressing Rules. And I have no rules, other than to not scare people! LOL

[GeeGolly]

How does one get into a car like that? And how does one get out? And how does one get out while wearing a dress?

[BitterApple]

Wow, Amy has packed on a lot of weight. All those Cracker Barrel breakfasts are finally catching up with her.

[Arwen Evenstar]

A lot of women gain weight after being on the pill.  I know I did, but it really didn't start to be a problem until my 30s. I usually wear a 14, but I have been known to buy a 16 or 1X for comfort.

My modesty rules are similar to Sew's...I cover is because I don't want to scare anyone...because of my heavy legs, I wear pants or Maxis because panty hose hurts my legs. Last time I wore a mini was 2005.

[GeeGolly]

I don't think the boots help in flattering Amy's legs. Unless she has cankles, she may be hiding the most shapely part of her legs.

I have the opposite problem, I have toothpicks for legs. Finding stylish boots are near impossible because I look like I'm playing dress-up with someone else's boots. 

[JoanArc]

2 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Wow, Amy has packed on a lot of weight. All those Cracker Barrel breakfasts are finally catching up with her.

Meh, pregnant, then divorced by the time the Kid's 2.

[Arwen Evenstar]

She might be preggers but she's waiting to announce? I don't think Famy can keep her mouth shut that long, tho.

[JoanArc]

32 minutes ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

She might be preggers but she's waiting to announce? I don't think Famy can keep her mouth shut that long, tho.

She will if it gets her back on the show. She wasnt on this last season, right?

[Sew Sumi]

Nope. I am still waiting for confirmation that they taped Couples Therapy as fucking newlyweds. Don't they drink like fish in those sequestered reality show houses? If so, I doubt she's knocked up, and Dill would have been right at home.

Edited June 19, 2016 by Sew Sumi
details, details...

[Arwen Evenstar]

King Dill Pickle is going to pickle his own inside if he doesn't stop drinking like a fish.

[lulu69]

15 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

How does one get into a car like that? And how does one get out? And how does one get out while wearing a dress?

Dear lord, please let her be wearing panties!! She is the rebel Duggar after all.