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Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events


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12 hours ago, Namaste said:

What does a hung jury actually mean?  Can they retry him for the same crimes? TIA

It means that the jury, after deliberations, can't agree unanimously on a verdict. Usually there's some back and forth communications between the judge and jury, with the jury reporting we seem to be deadlocked and the judge encouraging them to keep deliberating. There's appellate case law on what's an appropriate instruction for the court to give a jury that reports being deadlocked. The judge is not supposed to give an instruction to the jury that is coercive, i.e., pushes jurors to surrender their "conscientious opinions" (go against their conscience) in order to reach agreement on a verdict. 

If the jury reports back that they are still deadlocked after further deliberations, at some point the judge will accept that they can't reach a unanimous decision on the verdict, and declare a mistrial.

That means the case can be tried again.

By the way, during its deliberations and dialogue with the judge, the jury never discloses how their votes are leaning. For all the judge knows, they could be 11 to 1 for guilty, 8 to 4 for not guilty, etc. After a mistrial is declared because of a hung jury, the prosecution and defense will (after court adjourns) ask the jurors about how the votes went. They are allowed to ask, but also each juror has the right to not speak to them if they don't want to. 

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8 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

It means that the jury, after deliberations, can't agree unanimously on a verdict. Usually there's some back and forth communications between the judge and jury, with the jury reporting we seem to be deadlocked and the judge encouraging them to keep deliberating. There's appellate case law on what's an appropriate instruction for the court to give a jury that reports being deadlocked. The judge is not supposed to give an instruction to the jury that is coercive, i.e., pushes jurors to surrender their "conscientious opinions" (go against their conscience) in order to reach agreement on a verdict. 

If the jury reports back that they are still deadlocked after further deliberations, at some point the judge will accept that they can't reach a unanimous decision on the verdict, and declare a mistrial.

That means the case can be tried again.

By the way, during its deliberations and dialogue with the judge, the jury never discloses how their votes are leaning. For all the judge knows, they could be 11 to 1 for guilty, 8 to 4 for not guilty, etc. After a mistrial is declared because of a hung jury, the prosecution and defense will (after court adjourns) ask the jurors about how the votes went. They are allowed to ask, but also each juror has the right to not speak to them if they don't want to. 

Thank you!

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2 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

I’m a bit behind but since we are waiting I thought I’d ask. 

For some reason I thought those interested in porn would either be into adult porn OR child porn. 

Was Josh into both?

I think he is tends to go with the CP. Maybe he tried AP to see if that would work. It didn't. I also think he gets off on domination and violence. 

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On 12/7/2021 at 10:08 PM, mittsigirl said:

That's huge for a mobile home! They won't be cheap, that's for sure! I will have to take a peek at their interiors, very interesting to go so big.

I could see the Smuggars in one of those. They are nice inside.  Plenty of bedrooms, a fireplace, and I saw one with a master closet that looked like a bedroom it was so large. Once inside, they look like any other house. 
 
Their best bet will probably be to put something comparable or site build on the family homestead. 

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8 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

I’m a bit behind but since we are waiting I thought I’d ask. 

For some reason I thought those interested in porn would either be into adult porn OR child porn. 

Was Josh into both?

I don't think Josh is into anything in particular. I think his need for deviant sexual experiences has escalated over the years.

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15 hours ago, Tuxcat said:

Agreed. But they might be hung up on that one question. Why set up a partition, do all of that for three days and then not access the partition until June. No activity again on the partion side of the computer. Only activity was in October on his MacBook looking at adult porn.  I wonder if the calendar request was to see what three days - was there a trigger - idk something like mothers day?

This is what I was reading that gave me pause and asked the question if those into pornography stuck with one or the other. 
 

 

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From the Sun: Josh and Anna Duggar arrived hand-in-hand at the courthouse within the last few minutes, according to the Sun reporter at the trial on Thursday.They were accompanied by Josh's legal team.

Why are they there today? I thought they'd wait in a nearby office until a verdict was ready to be announced?

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1 minute ago, absnow54 said:

Maybe they don't have an office nearby? Or they're expecting the verdict early today? When did the jury reconvene? It's only 8:30 there.

My guess is that the office isn't close, and given the notoriety, hanging out at a nearby Starbucks or something isn't a great alternative.

My other guess is that if we do get a verdict today, it will either come by around 10 AM CST, or mid/late afternoon. If they need to go until 11 or 11:30 they might as well get a free lunch out of the deal, especially since it will take some time to get everyone back in the courtroom to get the verdict read, even with Josh and his attorneys in a not very big courthouse. 

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8 minutes ago, Ijustwantsomechips said:

It won’t be that scrumptious. He’ll get the lunch loaf which is all the prison foods mixed and ground together. 

7 minutes ago, SMama said:

Except Volderjosh will be eating with a spork during his stay at Club Fed.

That's a picture of an actual prison meal.

 

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38 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

I’m a bit behind but since we are waiting I thought I’d ask. 

For some reason I thought those interested in porn would either be into adult porn OR child porn. 

Was Josh into both?

As far as I've read, there's very little real understanding of the complications of sexual feelings, period. Clearly it's possible for some people to feel aroused by both men and women, for example. And often people are aroused not so much by a particular kind of person as by some kind of event -- like domination (in either direction) or violence or being seen by others in a sexual act (etc etc etc). It seems that rape tends to be motivated not by any kind of sexual attraction but by anger or just pleasure in using force against somebody. Some people seem to get aroused by just doing any sexual thing that's off limits or that's disgusting. Some people may only feel sexual arousal when they also feel romantic feelings toward a person or a kind of person. But for other people romantic feelings may even kill sexual arousal. It's way more complicated than would be convenient.

Josh has obviously been aroused by interfering with children or seeing children harmed and interfered with.  But he was also apparently aroused by knocking around that woman from the sex-entertainment industry that he paid for an encounter back in his DC days. She wasn't young looking or dressed like a schoolgirl or anything. So that wasn't a pretend-child encounter. It was him being aroused by something going on with an adult.

It's not clear that all someone's sexual motivations can be known, even by them. 

But when it comes to things that are crimes, it ultimately doesn't matter what your motivations are, of course. Some things have to be deemed criminal because of their effects on other people (or animals). 

 

 

Edited by Churchhoney
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Between following along here and on Reddit, I am not getting anything done today. I only have a half hour meeting on the calendar, and I’m not going to lie, I have contemplated canceling it. I did find time to go to Target to stock up on snacks and celebratory (or consolation) chocolates. 

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2 minutes ago, MargeGunderson said:

Between following along here and on Reddit, I am not getting anything done today. I only have a half hour meeting on the calendar, and I’m not going to lie, I have contemplated canceling it. I did find time to go to Target to stock up on snacks and celebratory (or consolation) chocolates. 

What's the climate like on Reddit? I only read/participate here. Is it all over the place and hard to read or relatively orderly? 

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5 minutes ago, RedDelicious said:

What's the climate like on Reddit? I only read/participate here. Is it all over the place and hard to read or relatively orderly? 

It's a mix - some useful posts, some wildly speculative posts, and a number of memes which I'm just scrolling past. 

It's mostly hard to read because of the sheer speed of main posts and comments. I have no idea how the moderators there are handling it. 

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13 minutes ago, RedDelicious said:

What's the climate like on Reddit? I only read/participate here. Is it all over the place and hard to read or relatively orderly? 

It moves even faster than this thread, and there are a lot of very short comments. Also a lot of jokes, most of which are funny (many of them are a take off of “mother is bleeding” from one of Jessa’s birthing episodes). It’s a good complement to this thread, I think. We have a lot more back and forth conversation here.

ETA - there is a local reporter in the courtroom who is posting there; see the thread “Good morning from Fayetteville.”

Edited by MargeGunderson
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IIRC when a jury is deliberating and is returning to the court for the next day's deliberation, the judge will assemble everyone in the courtroom for a brief on-the-record proceeding to establish that all jury members are present and will retire to the jury room to continue deliberations. The prosecution, defense lawyers, and defendant will be present for that. Where they go after the judge dismisses them is up to them as long as the court can contact them in case of a verdict or a jury question. 

ETA: that was my experience in our state courts and I'd think the federal courts would do the same.

Edited by Jeeves
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10 hours ago, hathorlive said:

Agreed.  It's okay to have questions.  I respect a jury that says "we want to review this".  We have to trust the system. I know there have been major disappointments with OJ and Casey but those were different trials.  The evidence is overwhelming in this case.  JB paid for a defense and he got one.  It will be interesting to see if this case can be appealed, because St. Louis lawyer pulled every freaking rabbit out of the hat he was given.  He did so many motions that I'm surprised he didn't get in trouble with the judge.  

I agree. Questions are understandable and we have to trust it doesn't mean the result will be wrong. With the overwhelming evidence the only thing I worry about with this trial is that there is a lot of technical stuff.  I always worry in trials with a lot of technical information. It can be boring, confusing, and overwhelming. And frankly a lot of people watch TV and assume it's as easy to mess with and hack technical stuff in real life as on TV so they can give credence to absurd arguments that play into that pre-conceived notion. 

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12 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

IIRC when a jury is deliberating and is returning to the court for the next day's deliberation, the judge will assemble everyone in the courtroom for a brief on-the-record proceeding to establish that all jury members are present and will retire to the jury room to continue deliberations. The prosecution, defense lawyers, and defendant will be present for that. Where they go after the judge dismisses them is up to them as long as the court can contact them in case of a verdict or a jury question. 

ETA: that was my experience in our state courts and I'd think the federal courts would do the same.

but JB is there.    I seriously wonder if the jury signalled in some way they were close to a verdict and the judge let everyone know to be there in the morning.  Because sure Josh has to stick close and Anna is glued to his side.   But JB wouldn't be there just to hang around for hours waiting just in case.   

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Just remember: for every Casey Anthony and OJ Simpson, there's a Scott Peterson and Jeffrey Dahmer.  

And I actually like her brown shoes.  They definitely don't go with the dress, but it's hard to find closed toe & closed heel shoes with a tiny bit of style. 

Edited by SnapHappy
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