Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[RowdyCam]

It's interesting how little we are seeing or hearing from Jana & JD, the adult kids closest in age to Josh. Maybe JD is deliberately trying to distance himself from this circus. I have to wonder what Jana watched/knew about in regard to her sisters' abuse throughout her childhood.

[Trillium]

2 minutes ago, Tuxcat said:

Surprising since Jed was supposedly on the witness list. He shouldn't be there. Maybe they are mixed up or maybe he was told he wouldn't be called?

 

lets hope she's making a YouTube video. Did she bring all 4 kids?

I mean all the J boys look the same so it’s possible it’s one of the others. 
 

I hope they are there today because they want to support Jill if she’s testifying today.

[lascuba]

They have to wear masks in the courtroom, how can they report who looks upset and who's smiling?

[Zella]

Someone who knew Josh from fundie circles and works in technical cyber security is testifying about Josh's above average computer knowledge.

[CountryGirl]

I like Derek's shorter haircut.

Anna, wearing power red is an interesting choice. As are the shoes. Definitely calling attention to her legs/ankles. NIKE!

I like Austin's navy peacoat. Very classic (not that he would know that) and no trucker hat. 

[galaxygirl76]

4 minutes ago, Zella said:

Yeah sounds like he's testifying then. Wonder if Jill is squirreled away in another room after sneaking in the back way or if she's still not been called. 

If he's testifying today that means he's testifying for the prosecution, right? That's unexpected.

[Tuxcat]

 

CARRIE JERNIGAN on TIK TOK is a lawyer in attendance. She said they've had 4 witnesses. Apparnently in 2010 Josh and his friend. Josh has had covenant eyes since 2010 and they were talking about bypassing using linux OS and partition. Josh wasn't interested in the the network filtration idea which would block the ability to bypasss.
 

[Zella]

Just now, galaxygirl76 said:

If he's testifying today that means he's testifying for the prosecution, right? That's unexpected.

He might be there as unwillingly as his dad was for the pretrial hearing, though. 

[CountryGirl]

9 minutes ago, Trillium said:

I mean all the J boys look the same so it’s possible it’s one of the others. 
 

I hope they are there today because they want to support Jill if she’s testifying today.

I would really like to believe this, but part of me wonders if they are there to psych Jill out. ETA: Perhaps officially told by JB to be there to show support for SexPest, but it could also have that additional effect on Jill.

[Tuxcat]

Jim Holt was called to testify too and recalled the discussion about Linux OS. and quoted Josh as saying "well how would I set that up" 11 years ago

Edited December 6, 2021 by Tuxcat

[absnow54]

Just now, CountryGirl said:

I would really like to believe this, but part of me wonders if they are there to psych Jill out. 

I don't think James would do that to her. They still appear to be pretty close

[hathorlive]

21 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

My opinion -- I think Josh WANTS to testify.   Remember, he thinks he is so charming and everyone loves him.   He thinks if he can just turn on the charm, the jury will love him and buy every explanation he throws out there.   And like his Dad, he can just refuse to answer certain questions because he's special.   

Of course his attorneys after dealing with his arrogant entitled ass for MONTHS is practically throwing themselves in front of him to keep him from going up on the stand.   They KNOW how his 'charm" really comes across.   They also know he can't just refuse to answer certain questions (SOL has run on the previous acts, so he is not facing the possibility of self-incrimination on THOSE acts).   They also know he will LIE through his teeth and they can't suborn perjury.   Daddy Duggar ain't paying them enough to risk their law licenses for these idiots.

I agree. He's dying to get up there tell everyone "the truth".  Remember, he's the smartest guy in the world.  I think he's seen a few good men too many times and thinks he can do better.  Of course, every time I say he'll never do it, he goes and proves me wrong.  He's done just about every stupid thing presented to him so far.  If this was a "Chose your own adventure book" Josh would be dead on page 1.

[CountryGirl]

Just now, absnow54 said:

I don't think James would do that to her. They still appear to be pretty close

I don't like to think that but JB's pull/influence on them is very, very strong. 

[absnow54]

From The Sun:

Quote

Story asked if Branham thought Josh knew how to write code lines or command code, and Branham said he wouldn't be surprised, but Josh hadn't told him that.

This annoys me. Linux has a user friendly GUI similar to Windows. You don't have to use a terminal for it.

[CountryGirl]

Let that smug sonofabitch testify. 

The prosecution will tear him apart. 

[hathorlive]

2 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

From The Sun:

This annoys me. Linux has a user friendly GUI similar to Windows. You don't have to use a terminal for it.

Very true.  And a casual person, glancing at the desktop, might not even realize he was running Linux gui.

[Lindsay Loo Hoo]

Prosecutor William Clayman called Jim Holt to testify.

Jim and Bobye Holt have 11 children and are longtime friends of the Duggar family.

Jim has known Jim Bob Duggar since he was 11 years old.

Josh volunteered on his political campaigns in 2000, 2004, and 2006, and helped less in 2010.

 

Jim Holt testified that he and Josh Duggar talked about Linux in 2010.

He said Josh asked how to set up a Linux partition.

Defense lawyer Justin Gelfand then cross-examined Holt and Holt said Clint Branham brought up the Linux conversation and was more tech savvy than he was, but that he wasn't sure about Josh.

[Tuxcat]

Bobye Holt testified too. Am sure the Sun will post soon.

[Lindsay Loo Hoo]

Clayman then got up and spoke with Holt again, who explained that Josh Duggar would help with graphics on the computer and helped put together and edit a commercial when he was a teenager.

Justin Gelfand noted all of that work was done on a Mac, not an HP like the office computer.

[Lindsay Loo Hoo]

Next, the prosecution's Carly Marshall called Bobye Holt.

She testified that she and her husband had been friends with the Duggars for over thirty years and that their kids had been best friends.

She said their oldest daughter was Josh Duggar's girlfriend in November 2002.

She said it was formal and they were only 14.

Bobye Holt then testified that Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar called herself and her husband to their home in 2003.

The judge then warned the jury of the upcoming child molestation testimony, and reminded them that Josh Duggar was not charged.

 

[Tuxcat]

Govt rested their case after Bobye Holt. Defense called computer expert Bush - "she seems very knowledgable so far" according to the lawyer from tik Tok

so no Jill testimony?

Jed for defense?

what happened to the cell mate?

Edited December 6, 2021 by Tuxcat

[lascuba]

I've been using Linux for years and I'm no one's tech genius. There are several prepackaged Linux distributions out there with detailed instructions on how to install with or without a dual boot option. I'll occasionally need to use the terminal, but I use google or the linux forums to instruct me...no need to have many if any commands memorized.

18 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

I would really like to believe this, but part of me wonders if they are there to psych Jill out. ETA: Perhaps officially told by JB to be there to show support for SexPest, but it could also have that additional effect on Jill.

I don't think any of them or giving it that much thought. They're all there as a family unit, and whatever Jill testifies (and I don't think it's going to be as explosive as many others are hoping), it likely won't change the the relationships she has with individual relatives.

[absnow54]

2 minutes ago, Tuxcat said:

so no Jill testimony?

Either they decided Bobye's testimony was good enough, or Jill will be called for the defense to parrot the "it was no big deal" and "it never happened again" claims circa the 2015 media fest. 

[Tuxcat]

1 minute ago, absnow54 said:

Either they decided Bobye's testimony was good enough, or Jill will be called for the defense to parrot the "it was no big deal" and "it never happened again" claims circa the 2015 media fest. 

I assume Jill was just a back up for the prosecution. Why put her through that if its not necessary.

But Jed will be for the defense I am guessing. 

Still wonder about the cell mate and Caleb Williams?

[zoomama]

so to be clear, the prosecution is now finished and the defense starts?

[CouchTater]

This trial is really zipping along.  

[Tuxcat]

1 minute ago, zoomama said:

so to be clear, the prosecution is now finished and the defense starts?

yes, currently the defense is on their first witness - their credible tech expert "very bright"  according to reports.

Edited December 6, 2021 by Tuxcat

[Lindsay Loo Hoo]

Bobye Holt testified that she and her husband, Jim Holt, went over to the Duggar's house on March 30, 2003 for an "important matter."

She said Josh was present for the conversation, and was 15 at the time.

She said Josh explained he had had Jane Doe 4 in his lap during Bible time and inappropriately touched her chest and genital area.

He confessed that he had touched Jane Does 1, 2, and 3 on their chests and bottom areas, both on top of and under their clothes, when they were sleeping from when he was 12 to 15.

The unnamed Jane Doe 4 was 5 years old.

Bobye Holt explained that the plan had been for their oldest daughter and Josh Duggar to get married.

She said Jim Bob Duggar told them so the daughter would know why the relationship had to end.

She said Josh went to a facility for troubled youth and that she still loves Josh.

 

Bobye Holt continued, explaining that in 2005, Josh Duggar came to her in Little Rock and spoke more of what happened in 2003.

She explained that he confessed to the abuse of Jane Doe 4 being worse than previously revealed, that the inappropriate touching was under her dress and that he took off her pantaloons.

The graphic details of Mrs Holt's testimony will not be shared here, but the Sun reporter shared that she seemed "pained" during her testimony.

Mrs Holt explained that being on the stand was "miserable" and that she still loved Josh and that she didn't want to talk about it.

[FizzyPuff]

40 minutes ago, CouchTater said:

https://www.the-sun.com/entertainment/4174486/josh-duggar-trial-live-updates-child-pornography-arrest-verdict/

This is the link to The Sun's live coverage, if anyone wants to follow.

Latest is that Joy seems upset and Jessa seems in high spirits, talking to Anna and smiling.

I’m hoping Jessa is in high spirits because she can’t wait for Josh to be behind bars. 

[Tuxcat]

Shocked not shocked that Jessa and James show up to hear the defense and not the prosecution? I guess to support Jed.

Edited December 6, 2021 by Tuxcat

[FizzyPuff]

I just want to thank you @Lindsay Loo Hoo for all the updates you post here, I really don’t want to look at the The Sun news. 

[Lindsay Loo Hoo]

Defense attorney Justin Gelfand then cross-examined Bobye Holt.

Holt said an investigator for the defense came to her home but that she chose to pass on speaking.

However, Gelfand noted, Holt did speak to the prosecution.

He then noted that Josh and the Holt daughter were always around chaperones during courting.

Gelfand brought up the 2003 conversation and said it was 20 years ago, before asking about 2005.

Holt said it was two years after the relationship with her daughter was called off and Gelfand asked why Josh would confess to his ex's parents, to which Holy replied that just would.

[absnow54]

1 minute ago, Tuxcat said:

Shocked not shocked that Jessa and James show up to hear the defense and not the prosecution? I guess to support Jed.

I kind of assumed that more Duggars would be in the courtroom when it was the defense's turn, since they'd be more in charge of the narrative, but they sat through Bobye Holt's testimony, so it's not like they have their heads completely in the sand.  

[Lindsay Loo Hoo]

Bobye Holt confirmed she had no knowledge of Josh Duggar's alleged child pornography activities in 2019.

[LilJen]

4 minutes ago, Lindsay Loo Hoo said:

Bobye Holt testified that she and her husband, Jim Holt, went over to the Duggar's house on March 30, 2003 for an "important matter."

She said Josh was present for the conversation, and was 15 at the time.

She said Josh explained he had had Jane Doe 4 in his lap during Bible time and inappropriately touched her chest and genital area.

He confessed that he had touched Jane Does 1, 2, and 3 on their chests and bottom areas, both on top of and under their clothes, when they were sleeping from when he was 12 to 15.

The unnamed Jane Doe 4 was 5 years old.

Bobye Holt explained that the plan had been for their oldest daughter and Josh Duggar to get married.

She said Jim Bob Duggar told them so the daughter would know why the relationship had to end.

She said Josh went to a facility for troubled youth and that she still loves Josh.

 

Bobye Holt continued, explaining that in 2005, Josh Duggar came to her in Little Rock and spoke more of what happened in 2003.

She explained that he confessed to the abuse of Jane Doe 4 being worse than previously revealed, that the inappropriate touching was under her dress and that he took off her pantaloons.

The graphic details of Mrs Holt's testimony will not be shared here, but the Sun reporter shared that she seemed "pained" during her testimony.

Mrs Holt explained that being on the stand was "miserable" and that she still loved Josh and that she didn't want to talk about it.

“Pantaloons”? More evidence that this cult is stuck in the 1850s.

1 hour ago, Tuxcat said:

Looks like they both went shopping. Defense team probably not happy with Friday's look. Red seems intentional.

 

It *is* a nice dress. . .  But I also see the red dress and think “handmaiden.”

[absnow54]

From the Sun:

Quote

Holt claimed she didn't speak with the defense because she wasn't given permission to.

She claimed she was allegedly offered money to speak, which gave her concern, but did not clarify if she meant from the defense.

I really want to know who tried to pay her off.

[Trillium]

1 minute ago, absnow54 said:

I kind of assumed that more Duggars would be in the courtroom when it was the defense's turn, since they'd be more in charge of the narrative, but they sat through Bobye Holt's testimony, so it's not like they have their heads completely in the sand.  

Yep it’s their sides turn. 🤢I don’t give them credit for being there for Boybe’s testimony, they probably had to if they wanted to be there for Jed!

[Zella]

1 minute ago, absnow54 said:

From the Sun:

I really want to know who tried to pay her off.

I strongly suspect it was the defense. Or someone acting on their behalf. 

Edited December 6, 2021 by Zella

[Lindsay Loo Hoo]

Carly Marshall for the prosecution then got back up and questioned Bobye Holt.

Holt claimed she didn't speak with the defense because she wasn't given permission to.

She claimed she was allegedly offered money to speak, which gave her concern, but did not clarify if she meant from the defense.

Marshall asked if Holt remembered the conversations with Josh Duggar and Holt said you don't forget something like that, and that it completely impacted their families.

According to the Sun reporter at the trial, in a short break after that testimony, Josh Duggar spoke to his sister, Joy-Anna (Duggar) Forsyth, for a very brief period.

Joy's husband, Austin Forsyth, was seen rubbing her shoulder and had his arm around her.

PROSECUTION RESTS

At that point, the prosecution rested their case.

The defense then began their argument, with Justin Gelfand calling Michelle Bush, a digital forensics expert to the stand.

[Lindsay Loo Hoo]

Michelle Bush claimed 50 percent of her cases involve child sexual abuse material.

She said she examined the Macbook, 5 thumb drives and SD cards, an iPhone, and an HP desktop for this case.

Bush explained she went to a Homeland Security office to examine the HP for five days.

She said she had to travel there because of the CSAM.

[Rootbeer]

It is pretty common for both the prosecution and defense to name more possible witnesses than they actually plan to call.  I presume Jill and Jed were meant to be used only if needed and, at this point, the prosecution doesn't feel their testimony is necessary because they've gotten enough to prove the case without them.  The fact that neither one seems to be in the courtroom, though, means that the prosecution hasn't released them completely and they may be used as rebuttal witnesses after the defense case.

There is no way on earth that Jill is a defense witness.  There is nothing she can say that will mitigate what Josh did to her when she was a kid.  Even if there was something else Jill knew that might help Josh' defense; there is no way Josh' lawyers would put her on the stand.  Bobye Holt's testimony has entered the assaults into the record.  No matter what Jill says in Josh' defense, the prosecution can cross-examine her and identify her as one of his victims which is going to be far worse for Josh' case than anything she could say in his defense.

10 minutes ago, Zella said:

I strongly suspect it was the defense. Or someone acting on their behalf. 

It had to be.  Where would the prosecution come up with money to compensate her legally?  I suspect that the defense offered her some sort of compensation 'for her time' or whatever in hopes that they could plant some key phrases into her testimony or tell her how helpful it would be if her memory failed before the trial.

Good for Bobye Holt.  She sounds like an honest woman.  A cult member, but honest.

[CalicoKitty]

13 hours ago, lascuba said:

It might have been Ben who mentioned changing diapers so a new mom can rest, but it was definitely Anna who said that bit about north and south ends. 

And she said this in one of the last episodes filmed, when she knew that In Touch had the police report and was going to break the story.

Not only Anna, but I remember Josh being in on that conversation.  I think they both mentioned it in more than one instance.  I thought it was creepy to hear him say that at the time.

[Lindsay Loo Hoo]

The forensics expert, Michelle Bush, further explained that she had to sign a contract to review the child sexual abuse materials with her devices.

She was not permitted to connect to the internet and had to delete her hard drive in order to not spread the materials.

She said she found no evidence of CSAM, also known as child pornography, on Josh Duggar's personal Mac devices.

Bush said if it was there at some point and was deleted, she would see evidence and that she did not.

Duggar had the Macbook from 2014 to 2019.

Bush said there were several partitions on the HP desktop, and said it was normal.

She said there was no trace of child sexual abuse material on the Windows side of the partition.

[merylinkid]

Is Michelle Bush the one who claims a "virus did it?"

Bobbye Holt's testimony is damning as hell.   The guy ADMITTED it was worse than his parents let on.   Just UGH.   She doesn't have to talk to the defense if she doesn't want to.  Lawyers can't prevent a witness from speaking to the other side, but the witness themselves can just say no to talking to the lawyers, outside of court.   I get hung up on when I call the other side's witnesses ALL THE TIME.   

I wonder if one of the tabloids offered her money for dirt on the Duggars, rather than the defense.   I HIGHLY doubt the Defense lawyers would sanction payment to a witness because they KNOW it will come out and it will look REALLY BAD (not sure of the ethics rules in Arkansas.  My jurisdiction, no witnesses get paid.   Pisses them off to miss a day of work so I only call those who are willing).

[Rootbeer]

1 minute ago, merylinkid said:

Is Michelle Bush the one who claims a "virus did it?"

Bobbye Holt's testimony is damning as hell.   The guy ADMITTED it was worse than his parents let on.   Just UGH.   She doesn't have to talk to the defense if she doesn't want to.  Lawyers can't prevent a witness from speaking to the other side, but the witness themselves can just say no to talking to the lawyers, outside of court.   I get hung up on when I call the other side's witnesses ALL THE TIME.   

I wonder if one of the tabloids offered her money for dirt on the Duggars, rather than the defense.   I HIGHLY doubt the Defense lawyers would sanction payment to a witness because they KNOW it will come out and it will look REALLY BAD (not sure of the ethics rules in Arkansas.  My jurisdiction, no witnesses get paid.   Pisses them off to miss a day of work so I only call those who are willing).

We know JimBoob is not above a little bribery when it suits his purposes.  I wouldn't be at all surprised if he offered Bobye some sort of compensation for her time if she'd be willing to listen to some 'suggestions' as to how she might testify.

I doubt Gelfand knew anything about it, but Travis Story doesn't seem like he's completely on the up and up.

[Zella]

Just now, Rootbeer said:

Travis Story doesn't seem like he's completely on the up and up.

I think if you asked Story to sell out his own grandma and priced it right, he'd be down for it. 

[Snow Fairy]

Josh Duggar was then seen talking to his wife, Anna Duggar, for about 20 seconds and she was seen holding his hand the whole time by the Sun reporter.

 

Stupid brainwashed Anna

Or this is the order from the defense

[Tuxcat]

Since it's public record we know who Jane Doe 1-4 were. Does the jury?

[Rootbeer]

1 minute ago, Snow Fairy said:

Josh Duggar was then seen talking to his wife, Anna Duggar, for about 20 seconds and she was seen holding his hand the whole time by the Sun reporter.

 

Stupid brainwashed Anna

Or this is the order from the defense

The defense certainly advised that Anna appear at trial daily and that she appear to be supportive of her husband.  Of, course she is also brainwashed into believing he is her headship.  So, it could be either one.  Or both.

[Tuxcat]

2 minutes ago, Snow Fairy said:

Josh Duggar was then seen talking to his wife, Anna Duggar, for about 20 seconds and she was seen holding his hand the whole time by the Sun reporter.

 

Stupid brainwashed Anna

Or this is the order from the defense

Josh talked to Joy briefly too after the testimony according to the Sun. Austin was rubbing her shoulder.