Jessa, Ben and Their Brood: Making a (Diaper) Mountain out of a Mold House

[Happyfatchick]

It wouldn't have been an open Q&A at all. The questions were vetted.

[Churchhoney]

Even before the scandal, the Duggars only participated in Q&A's which were carefully controlled and screened.  They wouldn't have agreed to the appearance had the organizers not guaranteed 100% of all questions and comments would be in accordance with the Duggan family's approved script.  If the scandal is mentioned at all, it will be to praise the entire family for their Godliness in handling it and to condemn the evil liberal media.  Nobody who isn't known to the organizers and completely onboard with the agenda will be allowed to speak.  This event, while ostensibly open to the public, costs $45 a day to attend and no doubt attending the Duggar seminar will also require waiting in line for hours to get a place in the room where they appear.  They can and will ban cameras, recorders and the like except for those authorized by the organizers and approved by the family.  No unknown TMZ reporter is going to sneak in there with a camera and ask a loaded question.

 

Because Jesus was well known for answering only carefully vetted questions.

[JoanArc]

In Benessa's prior appearances, about 90% of questions came from young children. No tough questions there.

[Aja]

Gee, Jill and Jessa seem to be hanging out together in photographable areas quite a bit. Just those two. I ever so wonder why. 

[msblossom]

They're in an airport going to an event that they've had scheduled in advance many months ago and they're the only siblings that have the freedom to travel without their parents because they're married. Remember, Josh & Anna were scheduled to be there too before their family secret got out.

Eh, I don't think there's anything unique about them being in "photographable areas" together. Are they supposed to travel and live their lives covertly?

I'm not excited about them getting a spin off, but if they do, they do. It doesn't really matter that much to me.

[Aja]

I'm just pointing out the cynical lust for fame and money that I'm perceiving. Jill and Jessa are the two 'best' ones now, the two who are the most favourable with both their own camp and the public, married and birthing and Gotharding like good girls. If the Duggars wanted the faces of any of their other children turning up on Instagram or speaking engagements or whatever else, they'd be there. If parental permission needed to be granted to let Jana or Jinger travel to an event (albeit with a chaperone or seven), that permission would be granted if they thought it would reinforce their wishes with TLC. Of course they don't need to Iive their lives covertly. They don't have to do anything they don't want to do. It seems pretty obvious to me that what they want is everyone to shut up and keep giving them more money and exposure and stop doubting that they're shining examples of clean American values that everyone should try to emulate. Which, I guess, is pretty much the interpretation of American values that lots of people seem to have understood. It just winds me up. It's so bloody cold, calculated, cynical and obvious and makes their incessant Bible quotes even harder to stomach.

Edited June 21, 2015 by Aja

[GEML]

I don't see TLC offering the children who live at home their own spin off. What would be the point? And a lot of people would jump at the chance to earn reality TV show money and exposure, but I don't see that as "lusting for fame."

But of course, living in DC as long as I did, my idea of people who lust after fame and fortune is a lot higher than anything the two Dugger daughters are likely to accomplish on a show that I expect will last one season.

[msblossom]

I get it Aja, it used to wind me up too. I refuse to give this family too much of my time or attention to what they're doing or what their motives may be. That's why I can't be bothered with a spin off if they manage to get one or spend too much on here posting about the family because it gets me worked up. I understand and get your postion.

[Happyfatchick]

Maybe...MAYBE... Since there is conjecture they are aware of blog posts, they'll do some things differently from here on out. Seems like J/J don't WANT to live their lives covertly, so maybe they won't. And if they choose to keep moving forward, I'm thing maybe...MAYBE... they will start to include Jana and Jinger on their forays into the big bad ugly world. That's an opportunity they shouldn't really pass up I think. To improve their image but expand at the same time. Built in chaperones. Girls have to share a room, guys share a room, no defrauding. Day trips...even BETTER! So they don't even have to think of who's sleeping where. I like it!

[Aja]

 I refuse to give this family too much of my time or attention to what they're doing or what their motives may be. 

You are wise and I must learn from you. :)

[BitterApple]

Aja, I agree. The Duggars are way more calculating than their wide-eyed, "aw shucks" veneer lets on. They like attention, they like being celebrities and they sure as hell like the money and perks that come with being on tv. They'll do whatever it takes to keep the gravy train flowing.

[Happyfatchick]

Someone (media thread) brought up Jess and Ben pursuing adoption. I wonder why that's such a strong point for them? Before the stuff hit the fan, I remember hearing Jessa say they'd already started the classes, etc. but why? Is she going to continue to pop out babies as her mom did and add adopted kids to that as well? Is she going to live in a shoe one day?

I told this once a long time ago, but am dropping it again. I was part of Gothardism (with my mom) from high school all the way to my second child. I remember specifically that Gothard wasn't all "pro" adoption back then. The bio mother tried to regain custody when my parents had her as a foster. The STATE fought her and won, and left her with my parents. Then the state granted adoption, although you couldn't DO that at the time, fosters remained in the foster system until adopted. Anyway, the bio mother dogged us throughout our childhood and threatened to take them back to court (she never did). My mom went to Bill G during a break and told him tearfully (but briefly) the battles they'd fought thru the years to protect my sister. Gothards advice: give her to the bio mother. I was too young to know the reasons my parents fought - what did they learn during the trial that made them dig in like they did? They weren't that kind of people; totally out of character. We left and finished out the seminar but never returned. She felt like he'd given her advice that went against her every instinct without knowing the whole story. It wasn't what she wanted to hear.

And I remember he did NOT advocate adoption during the seminars. So when I came back all these years later, I've discovered at one time he had adoption agencies or some such set up to facilitate Russian adoptions (maybe others as well). Why? Does anyone know this, why he changed his stance (or if he changed it only regarding individual cases?)

I'm just so curious why J/B seem so set on adoption I guess, and what Gothard says about it now. Anybody? If he's relaxed his position, why don't they ALL adopt instead of insisting on the wives become baby making machines???

Edited June 21, 2015 by Happyfatchick

[CofCinci]

If they foster children, they can make money off the deal.

[parisprincess]

I know there is a ton of paperwork to fill out before you can adopt a child.  Don’t you wonder what an adoption agency would think of Jessa and Ben’s answers to the financial question,  “What debt do you have?”  Mortgage?  No, Daddy Duggar owns the house.  Car payments?  No, our vehicles are part of Daddy Duggar’s fleet.  Credit card debt?  No, Daddy Duggar furnished our home and we get gifts from fans who buy from our 500 item wish list on our registries when we marry and when we have babies.  Insurance: Home/Car/Health?  Daddy Duggar has that all covered.

 
Now, what about income?  Well, Ben cleans toilets for Daddy Duggar, we get paid to speak at Christian events and, as I mentioned before, we are given things by many of our leg humper fans.

 

Of course, this is only if TLC dumps all their sorry asses.  Either way, I can’t see any reputable adoption agency giving a child to a 20 and 22 year old couple who are just starting to play house.  There are so many hoops you have to jump through to be considered as adoptive parents, and these two kids couldn’t possibly qualify.

Edited June 21, 2015 by parisprincess

[kalamac]

Are church adoptions still a thing? I remember years ago, seeing Faith Hill talk about how her parents probably never would have been approved to adopt her through an agency, because they were poor, already had two kids, and her father was functionally illiterate, but because it was done through their church, none of that was an issue, because the church was only concerned with their religion and if they'd love her.

Could Ben & Jessa be thinking of something like that? - through Ben's family church of course, given Gothard's views on adoption.

[GEML]

They are still a thing, but again, any child who suddenly shows up at one of the Duggars' homes is going to be noticed after the Josh situation.

[Seashell Lover]

I would love to see Them foster and trying to take the child out of the country let alone out of the state. One thing I know the foster kids will be going to a real school none of the BULLSHIT SOTDR!!!!!!

[poopchute]

I'm confused by Jessa's latest Instagram post calling her dad "the best dad ever" and "an awesome example of what a man should be." What?! I don't really think that doing nothing while your daughters are repeatedly sexually assaulted is an "awesome example" but good for her if she thinks that's awesome.

Edited June 22, 2015 by poopchute

[BitterApple]

I don't think Ben and Jessa would go the foster route because that would mean constant oversight by social workers and government agencies. The homefoolin that passes for education in the Duggar household likely wouldn't fly with the State.

They'll probably sweet talk some hapless teen mom into signing over her kid in a private adoption.

[Sew Sumi]

I'm confused by Jessa's latest Instagram post calling her dad "the best dad ever" and "an awesome example of what a man should be." What?! I don't really think that doing nothing while your daughters are repeatedly sexually assaulted is an "awesome example" but good for her if she thinks that's awesome.

The part that grossed me out was when she called JB "her mother's lover." What daughter EVER says that about her parents? I don't squick out easily, but kudos to Blessa. She succeeded where so many others have failed. :D

[bluebonnet]

I have serious concerns about Jessa's intent when she talks about her desire to adopt. It's one thing for a public figure to advocate adoption and quite another for a public figure to tell the world they are looking to adopt.  Advertising for babies is already a controversial topic in the adoption world and doing it from such a public platform is a bit nauseating.  My major concern isn't so much that Jessa and Ben would be approved because it's almost laughingly easy to meet all the standards in the home study and since adoptive parents can choose a home study...well, they can basically buy approval no matter what sort of people they are.  It would be easy for the Seewalds to adopt a child, unfortunately.  

 

But really, I'm more concerned that this is for publicity sake and they aren't even going to try and will end up just lying and saying they weren't approved in order to claim some sort of persecution status.  I've seen normal people do this as some sort of attention seeking issue.  Jessa and Ben are the type who really really really need to feel persecuted and it's just too easy for me to imagine a scenario where they pull this gimmick and, since they are so self-involved, won't even realize or care that the adoption world comes under fire.  

[Fuzzysox]

Can they go through a private adoption and avoid the approval process? I'm thinking some poor teenage single mother (Christain) to be would think they are the "right" people to raise her child so it would be a privarte adoption?

[bluebonnet]

I think a home study is required regardless of what sort of adoption process they choose.  Each state will have their own regulations about this.  I'm not familiar with Arkansas laws on this.  My partner and I are in the very early stages of navigating the adoption process and we've just been really shocked over how easy all of this approval process is.  It's intense, with many steps, but each step is easy.  I was most surprised over the fact that we could choose our own homestudy agency, which essentially means we can buy our homestudy simply buy choosing one that would be most sympathetic to our household.  We've met some really shady adoptive parents at some of the classes and it's so disturbing to hear them talk about ways they 'beat the system'.  And I'm not talking about same sex couples managing to get passed archaic anti-gay laws.  I mean people with very questionable backgrounds and lifestyles who are adopting for nefarious reasons.  

 

ETA: Should also add that the adoption agency matters a lot, if the parents are using one.  There is no way that the Seewalds can foster-to-adopt.  So I'm assuming private adoption, lawyer adoption, or agency adoption.  There is always an option for any sort of person. 

Edited June 22, 2015 by bluebonnet

[Darknight]

Can they go through a private adoption and avoid the approval process? I'm thinking some poor teenage single mother (Christain) to be would think they are the "right" people to raise her child so it would be a privarte adoption?

Ha. Yeah right. There are already thousands of upper middle class couples lined up for a healthy infant. What mother would want to give her child to two children playing house when they can give their child to grown ups with a career and self earned money

I would love to see Them foster and trying to take the child out of the country let alone out of the state. One thing I know the foster kids will be going to a real school none of the BULLSHIT SOTDR!!!!!!

And depending on the age real therapy with a licensed therapist. No blanket training. On top of that Benessa has to follow what the foster care agency wants them to do. Not what they want to do. In addition to that foster kids privacy has to be protected. No pimping out a foster kid on public tv.

Didn't JimChelle talk about adoption? Now Benessa. It's all talk. Unless a thumper whose pregnant decided to secretly give the Duggars her child. Private adoption already has a ton of couples with college degrees, careers, and huge homes willing to compete for a baby. Foster care have rules that must be followed. International adoption have different requirements for each country. I doubt one would give two people with no education or income a child The only thing Benessa might be able to adopt is a pet.

[Sew Sumi]

These two do not strike me as animal lovers or even animal likers. Keep the animals far, far away from them! 

[skatelady]

I dunno. I think maybe they were serious (although misguided and naïve). Bin's platform is anti-abortion, and if he and Jessa could convince a young woman on her way to an abortion to continue the pregnancy and give up her baby to them, that would bolster Bin's "resume". Just imagine how he would play that up, and use it to seek the attention he craves. The adoption plans "already underway" were likely plans to establish themselves in an even more public anti-abortion ministry.

 

Of course, this is unlikely to happen now. I can't imagine any woman on her way to an abortion would change her mind so That Family could have another arrow in its quiver.

[Wellfleet]

Ha. Yeah right. There are already thousands of upper middle class couples lined up for a healthy infant. What mother would want to give her child to two children playing house when they can give their child to grown ups with a career and self earned money

And depending on the age real therapy with a licensed therapist. No blanket training. On top of that Benessa has to follow what the foster care agency wants them to do. Not what they want to do. In addition to that foster kids privacy has to be protected. No pimping out a foster kid on public tv.

Didn't JimChelle talk about adoption? Now Benessa. It's all talk. Unless a thumper whose pregnant decided to secretly give the Duggars her child. Private adoption already has a ton of couples with college degrees, careers, and huge homes willing to compete for a baby. Foster care have rules that must be followed. International adoption have different requirements for each country. I doubt one would give two people with no education or income a child The only thing Benessa might be able to adopt is a pet.

 

If Ben and Jessa do actually adopt a baby, my guess is that it will be "Joan Crawford-style' - a 100% under-the-table backroom adoption. The child of some poor wayward Gothardite daughter who wasn't able to remain pure and tempted a hapless male by showing her elbows at church one day.

[Albanyguy]

I'm confused by Jessa's latest Instagram post calling her dad "the best dad ever" and "an awesome example of what a man should be." What?! I don't really think that doing nothing while your daughters are repeatedly sexually assaulted is an "awesome example" but good for her if she thinks that's awesome.

 

The part that grossed me out was when she called JB "her mother's lover." What daughter EVER says that about her parents? I don't squick out easily, but kudos to Blessa. She succeeded where so many others have failed. :D

 

 

Most of the older kids posted "Happy Father's Day" IG or YouTube messages to Jim Bob. They were all very scripted and rehearsed, obviously written by Jim Bob and Michelle, and clearly intended as a coordinated PR move. Josh and Anna's YouTube video was particularly repulsive (there's a link to it in the Josh and Anna thread). They're so badly done that I doubt they'll win the Duggars any new support, but the leghumpers will love them.

[BitterApple]

Lol, when Jessa called JimBob "lover of your wife" I don't think she meant it in a sexual way. I think she just meant it as a guy who cares for/loves his wife.

You kids get your dirty minds out of the gutter!!!

[Churchhoney]

Lol, when Jessa called JimBob "lover of your wife" I don't think she meant it in a sexual way. I think she just meant it as a guy who cares for/loves his wife.

You kids get your dirty minds out of the gutter!!!

 

 

Well, she has been treated to the mini-golf humping demonstration.

 

I think you're right about this. Meanwhile, though, Jessa should probably read a book or two so she can get up to speed on basic word usage.

[Aja]

I'm confused by Jessa's latest Instagram post calling her dad "the best dad ever" and "an awesome example of what a man should be." What?! I don't really think that doing nothing while your daughters are repeatedly sexually assaulted is an "awesome example" but good for her if she thinks that's awesome.

Of course she thinks he's an awesome example. That's what he told her to think.

[Fuzzysox]

Of course she thinks he's an awesome example. That's what he told her to think.

PR spin to get America to love them again.

[GEML]

Hmmm...my sister recently adopted privately and it was NOT an easy process. Believe me, if it was a matter of being able to pay for something to go more smoothly, she would have. These sorts of things do vary by state, and I think the Duggars would be risking getting someone who is against them in the state as easily as they could get someone for them. They obviously inspire cold/hot feelings close to home.

[Albanyguy]

Bin's platform is anti-abortion, and if he and Jessa could convince a young woman on her way to an abortion to continue the pregnancy and give up her baby to them, that would bolster Bin's "resume". Just imagine how he would play that up, and use it to seek the attention he craves

 

Skatelady, this is the first explanation of Jessa and Ben's interest in adoption that makes any sense. Not sense to a normal person, of course, but sense in an "I can totally see them doing that" kind of way.

[GEML]

I still hold that if someone "gave" a baby to the Seewalds, it would be a huge media storm. You can push the anti-abortion thing so far, but I unless the baby was interracial or special needs, I think a LOT of people would have a huge issue with an otherwise healthy and fertile couple getting to adopt a white baby and raise it on TV. They might be fine sending $20K in wedding gifts, but adopting a white infant when you can churn one out after another (assuming they do) will just look greedy to a lot of people who would desperately love to have one child.

[Seashell Lover]

I have a bet with my daughter I told her that Bennessa is going to have a sistermom. If I am right she will be doing all the cooking for Easter.

[Sew Sumi]

I think their fans would cheer them for adopting a healthy, bouncing, white-skinned baby. Most of them wouldn't have thought this issue through as has been done in this forum. They would continue to have plenty of sunshine blown up their asses to make them think there is nothing wrong with what they're doing. Does anyone think they would take a brown child, unless it came from the SOS orphanage. I imagine that would be an easy adoption process for them; they're white fundies, and the head of the organization married them. Check, check, and check. 

 

That said, that's the ONLY exception I could see with them in terms of adopting outside of their race. 

Edited June 23, 2015 by Sew Sumi

[bluebonnet]

Frankly, I don't even want to think about them adopting a child of color.  I'm terrified at the idea of how they would treat it.  These people don't strike me as the sort to have any knowledge, understanding or sensitivity for different races and ethnicities.  The way they treated locals in the places they've visited has been horrid.  I don't think even a desperate poc would ever consider the Seewalds, even if that poc comes from some similar fundie background. 

 

One thing that just really pisses me off is that these people are so blind, stupid and self-involved that they aren't interested in actually doing anything about abortion beyond getting up on their bully pulpit and preaching hellfire and Hitler's dopplegangers.  If they spent even ten minutes reading, they'd see that education and access to health care are the two main things that prevent abortions.  Of course, these sorts of things go against ridiculously dumb system of beliefs, but I guess that just goes to show that it's all about feeling superior and having some ridiculous cause to preach about.  It's not about zygotes and embryos to this idiots.  Don't even get me started on their hypocrisy with regards to supposedly being 'pro-family'.  I'd eat my boot if either of them ever so much as spoke up about matenity/paternity benefits, aid for poor parents, etc.  Obsessed with zygotes, couldn't care less what happens to them when they turn into real live human beings.  

[HundFan]

Maybe I'm too Freudian, but I was pretty close to being totally icked out over the most recent photo of Jessa and Ben, where she's wearing a shirt that says "Touch Down." Of course I get the football meaning (and I know Ben is in Razorbacks gear). But I just can't ignore the gross double entendre that could also allude to what Josh did to her. Which is that he literally "touched" Jessa "down there"  -- i.e., a "touch down." I doubt - I hope - Jessa wasn't making some conscious, misguided "take that" ref to Josh. That would only refocus attention on the horrible abuse she now claims is old news and long-settled. So maybe the shirt's message was a subliminal fumble. Or maybe it's just a football play. Whatever it means, I wish Josh's molestation of his sisters - and the sloppy post-mortem of Duggar explanations re same - didn't make repulsive connections like this creep into my mind.

[Sew Sumi]

The shirt has baby feet down around her bump, so it's meant to be a reference to Ben's sperm hitting the spot. aka: Touchdown! He was a football player during his homeschool high school years. This is as close to humor as we can ever expect Jessa to get, and in the footsteps of her father, it's all about the sex. 

Edited June 23, 2015 by Sew Sumi

[JoanArc]

The shirt has baby feet down around her bump, so it's meant to be a reference to Ben's sperm hitting the spot. aka; Touchdown! He was a football player during his homeschool high school years. This is as close to humor as we can ever expect Jessa to get, and in the footsteps of her father, it's all about the sex. 

Really? *Braces for Duggar tight-end jokes*

[HundFan]

Actually, those are little hands at the bottom of Jessa's TOUCH DOWN shirt. Creepier still. (See my comment re double entendre above.)

[Sew Sumi]

Haha! I haven't looked at the thing since she first posted it. At any rate, they're little baby metacarpals, not full-size hands meant to be Ben's. LOL

[CofCinci]

Those little baby hands on that ugly shirt remind me of that scene in the Blair Witch Project with all the bloody children's handprints on the wall.

[kokapetl]

Maybe I'm too Freudian, but I was pretty close to being totally icked out over the most recent photo of Jessa and Ben, where she's wearing a shirt that says "Touch Down." Of course I get the football meaning (and I know Ben is in Razorbacks gear). But I just can't ignore the gross double entendre that could also allude to what Josh did to her. Which is that he literally "touched" Jessa "down there" -- i.e., a "touch down." I doubt - I hope - Jessa wasn't making some conscious, misguided "take that" ref to Josh. That would only refocus attention on the horrible abuse she now claims is old news and long-settled. So maybe the shirt's message was a subliminal fumble. Or maybe it's just a football play. Whatever it means, I wish Josh's molestation of his sisters - and the sloppy post-mortem of Duggar explanations re same - didn't make repulsive connections like this creep into my mind.

Perhaps, like college athletes, they are also compensated mostly with room and board.

[GEML]

As Freud himself might have said, "Sometimes a shirt is just a shirt."

[Flowers]

I'm an awful person because, while I do feel terrible for the girls and that they were invaded, I see their actions now as just part of the damage-control machine. Pics of Izzy? Damage control. Benessa kissing? Damage control. Tea parties with the littles? Same. It's manipulative and disingenuous and I don't like it.

When Jill cried during the interview "They can't do this to us! We're victims!" I felt bad for her, but now I just think how they never needed to do the KF interview at all. It was all for sympathy and manipulation. So save your tears.

I have no sympathy for Anna. If she'd kept off social media all this time, maybe. But to get back on after what happened, AND to have posted the "forgiveness" thing right before it broke...just no.

I think I need some coffee.

Edited June 23, 2015 by Flowers

[GEML]

Short of slinking away into oblivion, I don't think anything they did was going to matter much to a lot of people. And if these were people who had really liked them beforehand, that might mean something, but at least in place like my FB feed, the people who want them to "show some decency" generally mean "go away" and never liked them in the first place.

Whereas I can't honestly say Id do things differently. If I had a half million people that were backing me, why shouldn't they fight for their show?

I think it fails in the next season, sort of like the first round of the Kate Gosslein show did. But I don't blame anyone for fighting for their livelihood - even if it's reality TV.

[Julia]

When Jill cried during the interview "They can't do this to us! We're victims!" I felt bad for her, but now I just think how they never needed to do the KF interview at all. It was all for sympathy and manipulation. So save your tears.

 

I don't know. I felt really squicky about that, but mostly because the two of them made a very fervent case that they didn't think what happened was all that serious, and they clearly meant to give the impression when discussing what happened that they didn't think of what happened back then as victimization.

 

But they were also (it appeared to me) coached to say that they were victims (I find it very difficult to believe that two young women as removed from outside influences as the Duggar sisters just stumbled across the language of the recovery movement by happenstance and internalized it) in order to make this story coming out more of a violation (er, sorry, "revictimization"). And that's kind of gross. Nobody should be telling them how to react to this - goodness knows they've had enough of that - and they don't need additional bona fides to feel as if their privacy was violated. 

 

I think it's on balance a good thing that this came out, because apparently this is an ongoing problem this community is specifically structured not to address. But I also think dragging these young women onto Fox and giving them a sympathetic victim script to play out if they want to get back to being the primary wage earners of their households (no irony there) is kind of grotesque.

Edited June 23, 2015 by Julia

[GEML]

I don't think there was ever a scenario where the daughters responded the way many people wanted them to - by renouncing their parents and upbringing and saying that "now the truth is out there" and they can "finally live a real life."

Because I'm not convinced that is even true for them. Maybe someday it will be, but in some ways, you can argue that's just replacing one script for another - if it's coming with a TV show or tell all book. (If you are going to be cynical...)