S02.E06: eps2.4_m4ster-s1ave.aes

[formerlyfreedom]

Mr. Robot tries to prove to Elliot that he can be useful; Darlene and Angela's plan does not go as expected.

 

[riverheightsnancy]

Man, I am worried for Elliot. 

[benteen]

That was a particularly brutal beatdown.

Very good episode.  Very much enjoyed the off-beat opening...I still remember that old USA logo. 

Loved Angela's storyline.  Very exciting.

[SailorGirl]

Heathers shout-out in the car! 

 Elliot is in rough shape -- based on his breathing, the boy has a collapsed lung -- and the blood line going through his eye? Awesome SFX but eew! 

Who was in the trunk of the car? Was it Wellick or Ollie? I thought it was Wellick but then when he spoke there was no accent -- I couldn't catch/figure out who it was.

Not a huge fan of Angela -- could she have been more obvious she was "up to something" with her deer-in-headlights stares at Agent Momma's Boy and then at Dom? 

The kid they got to play young Elliot -- could totally be a young Rami -- great casting there! 

That said about Angela, this was a hell of an episode and I am still all in! This one definitely requires a re-watch . . . 

 

[AliShibaz]

I was disappointed with the first part of the episode.

The entire episode had a running time of 50 minutes and the first 20 minutes consisted of that - I don't know what to call it - maybe it was some kind of a preview or a commercial for the show?

I usually watch each episode several times and I usually learn several new things every time I re-watch. But I can't see re-watching the first 20 mins. of this show. I suppose I could just be missing the point.

It was interesting that when the man (I think it was Darlene's old bf)) was complaining to the fellow in the shop and he was grabbed by two thugs in masks, they were the same kind of masks that I asked about upthread. I get the feeling those masks are some kind of indicator - perhaps of the Dark Army?

I'm left scratching my head over this episode. I will need to watch the last 30 minutes again. It was satisfying however, to see that so many of the people who had posted in this thread about events in Beijing seemed to be correct.

ETA Note to hincandenza: Thanks very much for the good info you recently posted about the Dark Army's dragon masks. IMO, that was a most excellent post! It certainly proved to foreshadow the attack on Darlene's ex-bf (I think he was Darlene's ex-bf but I'm not sure - could it have been Ollie with a beard?)

Edited August 11, 2016 by AliShibaz

[green]

2 hours ago, SailorGirl said:

Who was in the trunk of the car? Was it Wellick or Ollie? I thought it was Wellick but then when he spoke there was no accent -- I couldn't catch/figure out who it was.

 

Tyrell Wellick.  He has no accent when speaking English per se.  He just speaks Swedish at home to his Danish wife.  And one of the best quotes of the whole show was him hopping around tied up and screaming "Help me!  I'm a businessman!" before he crashes into the backdrop.

Excellent first 20 minutes of the show.  Best segment of the season so far.  I loved it all.  Great way to make fun of those inane laugh tracks we all hate.  Great fake commercials.  Great everything.  Even ALF was bearable limited to a cameo as he was.

I binged watched the whole show up until this episode and am all caught up.  Got to say when I read the previous threads here on the old episodes I thought I wandered into a tinfoil hat conspiracy cell, heh.  Only Mr Robot and Eliot's obvious hallucinations and "Evil Corp" read of E Corp are unreal.  All the other characters are real.  Even the show runner said that I thought.  And even Mr Robot isn't entirely unreal in one sense since he is in essence a part of Elliot who is obviously real. 

Not trying to be critical of anyone.  After all I have hindsight on my side.  And binge watching makes things so much clearer.  Especially on a computer screen where you can stop and freeze the action.  And some of you guys definitely caught Mr Robot being unreal before I did.   But if you all re-read all the threads like I binged on the last few days some of the guesses in retrospect were pretty darn funny you have to admit.  It was not a critical thing more than it entertained me.  Overall I did get so much out of the other threads' posts and added lots of "likes".  So I just had to go OT here to thank all of you collectively for the binge reads of same over the last few days. 

Edited August 11, 2016 by green

[Ms Lark]

3 hours ago, green said:

Excellent first 20 minutes of the show.  Best segment of the season so far.  I loved it all.  Great way to make fun of those inane laugh tracks we all hate.  Great fake commercials.  Great everything.  Even ALF was bearable limited to a cameo as he was.

I agree, I thought it was hysterical. Carly Chaiken's Dahlia was my favorite character on Suburgatory. It was great to see her again (more or less) in the backseat tormenting Elliot. Have to watch it again! Such fun.

Gotta get back to hacking, though. Which is sorta fun.

[loki567]

Like everything this season, I felt the fake sitcom part ran  about 10 minutes too long. Could have gotten the same message across and been a lot more effective in a shorter time span. I wish they had gotten Shyla for the gas station attendant. 

Still, I'm glad the show's gotten a lot more suspenseful the last two weeks. I was shitting bricks during the "heist," scene, especially since I could easily see Angela getting arrested and being put in the situation if she'd have to throw fsociety under the bus. 

I like that they continue with the theme how the big hack as fucked over both the powerful (John Boehner and Price) and the weak (Dom's cashier friend). 

[benteen]

The beginning probably ran a little too long.  Sam Esmail has been very self-indulgent and to use a South Park line, he's falling in love with the smell of his own farts.  But the beginning was very entertaining so I didn't mind it too much.

Apparently Esmail consulted with the guys who did the themes songs for the old TGIF Thank God It's Friday line-up for shows like Perfect Strangers and Family Matters to do the theme song.

I think Mr. Robot is still taking place in 2015 because John Boehner (the guy Price was speaking with) is still Speaker of the House and he gave up that title last year.

Darlene's ex was very unwise to poke the bear like he did.  Cool bit where he and Angela see each other.  Angela keeps things very close to the vest.

[SailorGirl]

6 hours ago, green said:

Tyrell Wellick.  He has no accent when speaking English per se.  He just speaks Swedish at home to his Danish wife.  And one of the best quotes of the whole show was him hopping around tied up and screaming "Help me!  I'm a businessman!" before he crashes into the backdrop.

Excellent first 20 minutes of the show.  Best segment of the season so far.  I loved it all.  Great way to make fun of those inane laugh tracks we all hate.  Great fake commercials.  Great everything.  Even ALF was bearable limited to a cameo as he was.

I binged watched the whole show up until this episode and am all caught up.  Got to say when I read the previous threads here on the old episodes I thought I wandered into a tinfoil hat conspiracy cell, heh.  Only Mr Robot and Eliot's obvious hallucinations and "Evil Corp" read of E Corp are unreal.  All the other characters are real.  Even the show runner said that I thought.  And even Mr Robot isn't entirely unreal in one sense since he is in essence a part of Elliot who is obviously real. 

Not trying to be critical of anyone.  After all I have hindsight on my side.  And binge watching makes things so much clearer.  Especially on a computer screen where you can stop and freeze the action.  And some of you guys definitely caught Mr Robot being unreal before I did.   But if you all re-read all the threads like I binged on the last few days some of the guesses in retrospect were pretty darn funny you have to admit.  It was not a critical thing more than it entertained me.  Overall I did get so much out of the other threads' posts and added lots of "likes".  So I just had to go OT here to thank all of you collectively for the binge reads of same over the last few days. 

Ah, thanks. I didn't hear the actual words just the voice -- I did the binge-watch of Season 1 about a month ago, so its been a while since I've heard Wellick's voice. Since it was Wellick in the trunk then, that raises a question -- we saw Mr. Robot beating Wellick in the truck and a spurt of blood onto his pants, and we know Elliot is Mr. Robot, so does that mean that Elliot did try to kill Wellick and either failed or succeeded and is messing with the wife with the phone and the call to Elliot was another hallucination?

I loved the first 20 minutes -- it took me a minute to figure out WTH was going on but then I was all in. And if you go to the website they used in the "E Corp internet access" commercial, it takes you to a computer screen with files on the left and the commands screen -- it gives you the option to enter various commands and it gives you a few more tidbits of info, as do the file folders. If nothing else, the show is masterful at engaging its audience on multiple levels beyond the tv screen. Next generation media engagement in full effect! 

[green]

42 minutes ago, SailorGirl said:

Ah, thanks. I didn't hear the actual words just the voice -- I did the binge-watch of Season 1 about a month ago, so its been a while since I've heard Wellick's voice. Since it was Wellick in the trunk then, that raises a question -- we saw Mr. Robot beating Wellick in the truck and a spurt of blood onto his pants, and we know Elliot is Mr. Robot, so does that mean that Elliot did try to kill Wellick and either failed or succeeded and is messing with the wife with the phone and the call to Elliot was another hallucination?

I loved the first 20 minutes -- it took me a minute to figure out WTH was going on but then I was all in. And if you go to the website they used in the "E Corp internet access" commercial, it takes you to a computer screen with files on the left and the commands screen -- it gives you the option to enter various commands and it gives you a few more tidbits of info, as do the file folders. If nothing else, the show is masterful at engaging its audience on multiple levels beyond the tv screen. Next generation media engagement in full effect! 

Cool.  Do you have the link to that?

[SailorGirl]

they've actually changed it up a bit since last night -- the windows background is different now. Since I don't know how to turn the spoiler tag on, I'll leave it at that.

e-corp-online.com

Edited August 11, 2016 by SailorGirl

[xaxat]

1 hour ago, benteen said:

I think Mr. Robot is still taking place in 2015 because John Boehner (the guy Price was speaking with) is still Speaker of the House and he gave up that title last year.

I agree. When Angela met Ollie there was a TV in the background with news about the Supreme Court's decision on gay marriage.

Was that JK Simmon's voice as "John Boehner"?

Why did Gummer's FBI agent recognize Angela? I don't remember them having any connection.

It felt like this episode was treading water.

[Primetimer]

The show is perfectly capable of suspenseful plotting -- and one poorly cut scene isn't going to get Esmail & Co. out of trying it.

View the full article

[Cardie]

It's dramatic suicide to have the Elliot, Mr. Robot and Ray story so cordoned off from the global finance and hacking plot that the show supposedly revolves around. I know that Elliot's protracted suffering is going to result in him embracing Mr.Robot and the two of them defeating Ray and emerging as a cyber-warrior once more. But it already seems too late to knit our protagonist back within the fast-moving events in the outside world.

[yourmomiseasy]

5 hours ago, benteen said:

I think Mr. Robot is still taking place in 2015 because John Boehner (the guy Price was speaking with) is still Speaker of the House and he gave up that title last year.

Also, it was stated in the show that we picked up about a month after we left off last season and the dates on various things have almost all indicated that the episodes have been taking place in June and July of 2015.  When Darlene opens up her computer in the hotel room it says it is Thu, July 3rd, which would indicate it is 2014, but I think that is an error since 2015 has been used consistently on almost everything -- for instance the FBI memo that White Rose was concerned about was dated 6/24/15 and put the homicide investigation on 6/17/15 (6/17 and 6/24 are family birthdays, so I noticed) and Elliot's terminals last episode had dates sometime in June 2015 as last logins.  

[Cekrypton1]

Does Angela know that Darlene and Eliot are fSociety? Her inclusion w/the E-Corp caper seems to indicate that she knows E&D are fSociety, but her meeting Cisco and putting two and two together vis-a-vis the AllSafe hack of last year made it seem like she didn't.

Point of discussion: Would the opening have worked better if Too Many Cooks did not already exist?

[kat165]

We also saw a 2015 date on Angela's computer just before the FBI agent started speaking to her, when she was hemming & hawing over doing whatever the hell she was doing. I don't really like Angela. She's stiff & boring. But I did enjoy seeing some hacking even if she the was the hacker.

I have a question(s) about Darlene's old boyfriend, Angela's old bf, Ollie (is that Angela's ex?), the guy who sold the cd that Angela used in Ollie's (?? her old bf's?) pc in season 1, the guy who got held up back by the dark army masked guys (in this ep) & injected with a needle (or what? What the hell was that btw? A death shot? A pain inducer/killer, finger nail torture?) and the guy Angela pretended not to recognize who handed her some piece of equipment when she was with Darlene and bearded guy. I can't figure out how many different people, or not, these characters are. Can someone enlighten me? I think Ollie was Angela's old bf who's pc she sabotaged in s1 and also the guy who met with her last wk and recorded their convo and gave her his resume? Is he separate from cd selling/giving away guy from last season? Is that the same guy who handed Angela that machine in this ep? Who was that guy who got restrained by the dark army masked guys? They all look so similiar to me I can't differentiate them from each other.

While I kind of enjoyed the opening it was tired and not original and it did go on too long. In the past few months I've seen this done on Blackish, in a House rerun and elsewhere that I'm not remembering. I did like that I wasn't sure if/when they were breaking for a "real" commercial - it was that Bud light that threw me. And Wellick jumping around and saying "I'm a businessman" then crashing into the backdrop was hilarious.

I also live in the "real" Washington Twsp, NJ area (where Elliot, Angela & Darlene are from) and thought that highway they were driving on looked a lot like the Garden State Parkway. So that was kind of neat. It was nice to see Gideon again but didn't enjoy watching him die again.

Frankly, I'm not enjoy this season as much as last. I'm not really a fan of Darlene or Angela or FBI girl so I'm kind of bored when we're in their stories. And suprisingly (to me) I kind of miss Wellick. He was interesting. I also like(d) the fsociety hackers but most of them are gone now.

Darlene looked great in that blonde wig. She should consider going blonde.

Edited August 11, 2016 by kat165
I think faster than I type

[yourmomiseasy]

2 hours ago, kat165 said:

I have a question(s) about Darlene's old boyfriend, Angela's old bf, Ollie (is that Angela's ex?), the guy who sold the cd that Angela used in Ollie's (?? her old bf's?) pc in season 1, the guy who got held up back by the dark army masked guys (in this ep) & injected with a needle (or what? What the hell was that btw? A death shot? A pain inducer/killer, finger nail torture?) and the guy Angela pretended not to recognize who handed her some piece of equipment when she was with Darlene and bearded guy. I can't figure out how many different people, or not, these characters are. Can someone enlighten me? I think Ollie was Angela's old bf who's pc she sabotaged in s1 and also the guy who met with her last wk and recorded their convo and gave her his resume? Is he separate from cd selling/giving away guy from last season? Is that the same guy who handed Angela that machine in this ep? Who was that guy who got restrained by the dark army masked guys? They all look so similiar to me I can't differentiate them from each other.

 

There are 2 guys.  One is Angela's ex, Ollie, the other is Darlene's ex, Cisco.  Ollie is the stupid one that mainly interacts with Angela, used to work at Allsafe, and met with her last week.  Cisco is the hacker that is involved with The Dark Army and serves as f.society's liaison with them.  He distributes the CDs as a way to gain access to people's computers.  The CDs put malware on your computer when run, giving him access.  Angela is probably still pretty upset about being blackmailed by Cisco and didn't realize Elliot and Darlene were involved.  So she was taken aback when she saw that Cisco and Darlene knew each other, but decided not to say anything.  I'm interested in seeing what she uses this info for at a later date.  I'm also not sure if Elliot and/or Darlene know that it was Angela and Ollie that Cisco was blackmailing -- it might have been mentioned last season.

http://mrrobot.wikia.com/wiki/Cisco

http://mrrobot.wikia.com/wiki/Ollie_Parker

Edited August 11, 2016 by yourmomiseasy

[gibasi]

13 hours ago, benteen said:

Sam Esmail has been very self-indulgent and to use a South Park line, he's falling in love with the smell of his own farts. 

I really don't know why I am watching this any more.  Last week's episode was the first I've enjoyed this week but that did not include Elliot's beating.  I don't enjoy the physical torture.  Of Elliott or Cisco or anyone else.  And why save Elliott if they are just going to kidnap him and throw him in a room?  But the way he was lying in the hospital bed, completely dressed, not hooked up to any machines despite his collapsed lung?  I guess he was not ever in a hospital.  No matter though, he is out now.

The beginning was well done and cute (yes, it was too long) but it was not as clever as Sam Esmail seemed to think it was.

I am hoping the season is almost over because I don't really want to give up on it but I also don't see the point of watching something so dreary.  I cannot even imagine watching this episode or any of the others a second time.  I am of the philosophy that the writer has a duty to the audience to not be so opaque that you have to watch a second time to "get" it.  

[kat165]

Thank you, yourmom! Very clear explanation - I needed that. And thanks for the links.

Gibasi, yeah, I kind of feel the same way, about rewatching. I've stopped watching this "live" and have been watching it at the 2nd showing. Although if I'm too tired to stay up to 1am I'm not too disappointed to go to bed instead & catch it later On Demand. Which makes me sad. I was really looking forward to the 2nd season of this show.

[Anela]

The beginning was too long. The only part that really had my attention, was Angela's whole part in it. That sleazy FBI guy pushing her to go out, and then deciding that he was going to ask her why she was in an area she wasn't supposed to be, when he refused to go out with him. Ugh. When Dom (?) showed up, oops... I hope she gets out of it. 

[shapeshifter]

I thought the fibbie hitting on Angela was maybe just to throw her off while he continued to try to figure out what she was doing there, and then she turned it around by pretending she was naive enough to take his flirting at face value.

Assuming Ray's goal is to make Elliot afraid of crossing him, the beating alone would accomplish that, but likely Elliot would then leave town. So they lock him up to be able to continue to use him. Right?

[AliShibaz]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

I thought the fibbie hitting on Angela was maybe just to throw her off while he continued to try to figure out what she was doing there, and then she turned it around by pretending she was naive enough to take his flirting at face value.

Assuming Ray's goal is to make Elliot afraid of crossing him, the beating alone would accomplish that, but likely Elliot would then leave town. So they lock him up to be able to continue to use him. Right?

It's almost always a mistake to use force and violence against someone to make them do your will. Most people will understand that you are effectively stealing their life and in Elliot's case, they may well kill him after they are finished with him or just keep him imprisoned so they can continue to use him.

Many people (I'm thinking of  the victims of the Gestapo in WW2) would rather be dead than have their lives co-opted in this way and live with beatings and torture every day. So they will pretend to go along but do everything they can to find an opportunity to burn their tormenters or to kill themselves. There are many examples of this. The slave laborers who were building the V2 rockets in WW2 would often sabotage the rockets so they wouldn't work. Remember the movie Schindler's List? It was based in part on a true story. The slave laborers making munitions would sabotage them so they wouldn't work.

What would you do if someone imprisoned you and beat you regularly and forced you do to do what they wanted and never allowed you to have any of your own life back for yourself?

Edited August 12, 2016 by AliShibaz

[thuganomics85]

Like others, I do think the opening bit went on too long, but I did kind of enjoy the craziness of it, the look and feel was perfect one of those types of sitcoms, and I really enjoyed the acting.  Not just Rami Malek's baffled reactions, but I actually enjoyed how Carly Chaikin and Christian Slater played those versions of the characters.  They really did come off like the snarky, witty teenager, and easy-going and speechifying dad, that you see in a whole bunch of sitcoms.

Loved the brief return of Gideon in the sequence, only to get mowed down by ALF.  Fuck you, ALF!  Since dead people aren't off the table, I'm disappointed that they haven't seem to be able to work in a Shayla appearance yet.

All that said, no surprised that it was all in his head, and Elliot is truly fucked at the moment.  I still have no idea how he can get out of this.  By all accounts, Ray has him beat on every level, and I really don't see how Elliot will be able to get the upper hand on him.  I'm sure it will happen, since he's the lead, but I'm hoping I will end up buying it on some kind of level, but I'm worried I won't.

Besides all that, the episode was basically Darlene and Angela doing their heist, which they managed to somehow both pull off and not pull off, thanks to spotty Wi-Fi (figures), and now Dom suddenly showing up to question Angela.  Oh, and Angela had to get hit on by a creepy FBI agent, who I couldn't place until now, and it turns out it was Tom Degnan a.k.a. Ike/Jason from the better then it had any right to be, Limitless this past season.  Now, I know why that scene felt so strange (along with the creepiness), because I kept waiting for Mike to show up and tell Ike to knock it off.  And now I'm imaging what kind of damage half of these characters would do on NZT...

Who was playing the Speaker of the House?  Because, I swear, it really did sound like J.K. Simmons.

As much as I'm enjoying this show, I do think this season has struggled with his length.  I get that being on cable gives them more freedom, but it's perfectly fine to have your show actually end after an hour.  They really cut probably cut ten or so minutes each time, and it would flow a bit better.

[Anela]

I realized he was Ike, as well, thuganomics. :) I loved Limitless, and wish it was coming back. 

[SailorGirl]

15 hours ago, kat165 said:

Darlene looked great in that blonde wig. She should consider going blonde.

My thought was she was trying to be Angela, so that if questioned, Angela would have an alibi. But then we got the whole FBI creeper scene with her deer in headlights reaction, and Agent Streep's daughter seeing her in the office, so that killed that idea . . . but agree, she did look good! :-D

[benteen]

Gideon fit in well with a 1980s sitcom.  He looks a lot like Michael Gross from Family Ties.

FBI agent was Agent Ike from Limitless?  Cool.  I only saw a few episodes of that show but was sorry to hear that it got canceled. 

[Neurochick]

I like this season more than last season because of the interesting (at least to me)philosophical questions.  Are FSociety good guys or villains?  They saw ECorp as evil, but never realized that if you're going to break something down, you really need to replace it with something else.  The scene between Dom and the store manager showed how despite ECorp's "evilness" they were getting stuff done and people were able to make a living.  I watched the after show, and someone mentioned that even though, we, the audience, really can't directly see how the public has been affected by the hack, there have been scenes in the background of stores boarded up, and someone mentioned a woman going through trash cans.  

I also wonder about Elliot; in the first episode, the first scene he gets a man, dealing in child pornography arrested.  We, the audience are like, "that's a good thing."  Then, Elliot had Vera arrested but that only led to Shayla getting killed, Vera, meanwhile ended up free.  Now Elliot is in the shit because of Ray.  Sometimes I feel Elliot, because of his computer knowledge, thinks he's so much smarter than everybody else, and winds up getting fucked (by both Very and Ray) by people who have more "street smarts" than him.  

I don't think Ray will have Elliot killed, because of what he told Elliot about his dog, that she lost the will to live when she realized she was not in control.  I think Ray expects Elliot to kill himself.

[Rinaldo]

On August 11, 2016 at 2:12 AM, green said:

Excellent first 20 minutes of the show.  Best segment of the season so far.  I loved it all.  Great way to make fun of those inane laugh tracks we all hate.  Great fake commercials.  Great everything.

I felt the same way; I was just staring at my TV screen in happy disbelief, delighted that they would go there at such length (and that their network, USA, would have no problem with being mocked as a purveyor of brightly lit fluff). They even went through a whole fake commercial break, some related to E-Corp and an actual (wasn't it?) vintage Bud Light commercial, all remaining in the non-HD screen ratio. With the remainder of the episode taken up with the spy caper, this goes immediately on my short list of Best Episodes of Anything this year.

[possibilities]

8 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

FBI agent, who I couldn't place until now, and it turns out it was Tom Degnan a.k.a. Ike/Jason from the better then it had any right to be, Limitless this past season.  Now, I know why that scene felt so strange (along with the creepiness), because I kept waiting for Mike to show up and tell Ike to knock it off.  And now I'm imaging what kind of damage half of these characters would do on NZT...

Thank you!! That was driving me crazy, because I knew I knew that guy but I couldn't figure out who he was!! And the idea of adding NZT to this cast? Lots of fodder there-- I sure do miss Limitless....

[hnygrl]

Hmmm...Tyrell Wellick locked in the trunk of the car. He keepsTyrell close to him, but locked up out of the way.

And the parking lot dude telling Tyrell's wife "we doing all this to protect some skinny kid in a hoodie?"

And also last season when Elliot was in the parking garage, next to wellick's car and the dude said "you been in that car all this time? What you do, fall asleep for a week? (or something like that).

Oh, and last season, when Angela was in one of Elliot's "dreams" and told him he was only a MONTH OLD?

I still 100% embrace Tyrell and Elliot being the same person.

That CD guy is Darlene's ex. He was always "in touch" with the dark army. The man spoke perfect Mandarin for pity's sake! Since that shot didn't kill him, I'm thinking it may be some kind of tracer or tracker. I think Darlene's ex/the CD guy is going to feature significantly in future storylines.

Elliot's the "star of the show" so we know he's not gonna die or be seriously injured. He and his alter ego will get out of this somehow and it will be epic.

Can't wait.

[Cardie]

11 hours ago, benteen said:

Gideon fit in well with a 1980s sitcom.  He looks a lot like Michael Gross from Family Ties.

Same initials and everything. (The actor, Michel Gill, not his character.)

Edited August 13, 2016 by Cardie

[Neurochick]

Did anyone catch the "Say Cheese Danish" headline in the NY Post that someone was reading when Darlene walked into the hotel?  Under it, it said "Welleck's wife wanders in the night."

[shapeshifter]

13 hours ago, Neurochick said:

...Sometimes I feel Elliot, because of his computer knowledge, thinks he's so much smarter than everybody else, and winds up getting fucked (by both Very and Ray) by people who have more "street smarts" than him....

I see Elliot a little differently but couldn't put it into words. Then I read this in an IMDb post that explains my understanding of Elliot (emphasis mine):

Quote

...Ever since the Vera incident, I really saw just how over his head Elliot can get. He's a genius in one area, but has ZERO street smarts. He will always be taken advantage of. That's why he needs Mr. Robot....

Elliot reminds of a young man I knew who is developmentally disabled and could never read or write, but back in the 80s as a child he would call that phone number that gave the time repeatedly. He listened to it so much that he was able to internalize time intervals and could tell anyone what time it was to the minute though he neither owned nor could read a watch. In high school kids would tease him and treat him like a carny freak by constantly asking him what time it was. His mother told him to tell them, "Get a watch!" rather than giving them the time, which took care of the situation. As I see it, Elliot, on the other hand, is still giving them the time, so to speak.

[green]

21 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

...  I still have no idea how he can get out of this.  By all accounts, Ray has him beat on every level, and I really don't see how Elliot will be able to get the upper hand on him.  I'm sure it will happen, since he's the lead, but I'm hoping I will end up buying it on some kind of level, but I'm worried I won't.  ...

 

He won't be able to.  But I'm sure Mr Robot will. 

Until he learns to get along with Mr Robot and use that part of him to advantage instead of either fighting him off or being over-powered by him he won't get anywhere.  He has to come to terms with Mr Robot and obtain some balance.  Giving in didn't work.  Fighting against him didn't work.  Integrating him somehow may.

That's why I'd also bold the sentence after the one shapeshifter bolded right above this post.

Edited August 13, 2016 by green

[AliShibaz]

Green,

I think you may have hit the nail on the head. Maybe Elliot is a schizoid personality - like Captain Spock in that awful episode in which he was split into two beings - remember? A good guy and an evil guy.

Well, maybe Mr. Robot is one facet of Elliot's personality and the goal for Elliot is to find a way to reintegrate both parts of his personality into one so that he can live a fulfilling life? I'm probably wrong about that. But it might explain a little bit about what's been happening.

Edited August 13, 2016 by AliShibaz

[ruby24]

So I guess this episode really did confirm that Elliot is in love with Angela, based on all that talk in the sitcom dream. Funny, I was just wondering if we were supposed to interpret their interactions that way in the last episode- I think you kind of have to now.

Edited August 13, 2016 by ruby24

[shapeshifter]

I can't stop wondering if Elliot sustained a brain injury when he was "pushed" out of the window by Mr. Robot, perhaps a suicide attempt after his dad died—sort of a chicken/egg scenario with his already manifesting mental illness, but I'm probably wrong about the TBI part. If Elliot was a young adult at the time, he would have been the right age to have begun manifesting schizophrenia. But in the sitcom portion of the episode there was again mention of Dad pushing Elliot out the window—but then again, it was Elliot's hallucination we saw. We're probably just supposed to arrive at this conclusion (the part I bolded below):

1 hour ago, AliShibaz said:

Green,

I think you may have hit the nail on the head. Maybe Elliot is a schizoid personality - like Captain Spock in that awful episode in which he was split into two beings - remember? A good guy and an evil guy.

Well, maybe Mr. Robot is one facet of Elliot's personality and the goal for Elliot is to find a way to reintegrate both parts of his personality into one so that he can live a fulfilling life? I'm probably wrong about that. But it might explain a little bit about what's been happening.

In real life, the blows to Elliot's head that resulted in the eye injury we saw could have also caused brain damage. Ray needs to hire more careful thugs if he wants to continue to use Elliot's skills.

[AliShibaz]

13 hours ago, ruby24 said:

So I guess this episode really did confirm that Elliot is in love with Angela, based on all that talk in the sitcom dream. Funny, I was just wondering if we were supposed to interpret their interactions that way in the last episode- I think you kind of have to now.

I think it's very likely they killed off Shayla so early because they wanted to clear the field for Elliot and Angela to fall in love. I think they would be a great match. Elliot needs a lot of help with social relations and Angela could certainly help him build a rewarding life for the two of them (at least as rich and rewarding as Elliot could ever have). Angela has known him for a long time and they have several things in common (a big corp killed one of their parents for one) and they both have some "gaps" the other could fill. Elliot could help Angela with her technical career and Angela could help him find a good loving relationship (with her). Who wouldn't want to have a loving relationship with Angela? She's a wonderful lady.

I just rewatched this episode and I'd like to ask a question about Darlene's old bf. We see him go into a room that looks like a library and (presumably) some members of the Dark Army grab him and inject him with something that is supposed to help him remember to follow orders. But then, a few minutes later (the exact timing is difficult to be precise), he walks into a room with Angela, Darlene and the other two f-Society hackers and she seems to recognize him as the guy who gave her the CD that infected her PC (awa her bf's PC) and caused so much trouble for both of them at their workplace.

My question(s) are: Does anyone have any idea what it might have been the members of TDA injected him with? How was it supposed to punish him? Given we can't pin down the timing, it would still seem that it wasn't very long between the time he was injected and the time he met with Darlene & Angel et all.  Can anyone make a guess just what was going on there? What kind of instructions could he have disobeyed?

Presumably, the contents of the backpack was something that enabled Angela to hack the FBI. It was created by TDA and delivered by Angela. I have no idea what is going on with that subplot and I'd really appreciate if anyone would care to posit some guesses.

Edited August 13, 2016 by AliShibaz

[kat165]

Good question, Ali, I've been wondering the same thing.

[Cardie]

14 hours ago, AliShibaz said:

Maybe Elliot is a schizoid personality - like Captain Spock in that awful episode in which he was split into two beings - remember? A good guy and an evil guy.

Esmail has confirmed in interviews that Elliot suffers from dissociative identity disorder, what has colloquially been called "multiple" or "split personalities." The condition was made famous in the books and films Three Faces of Eve and Sybil. It is distinct from schizophrenia. Usually because of some emotional trauma, the sufferer's personality shatters into a number of "alters," who can be of different ages and genders. (His father pushing him out of the window would seem a likely originary trauma for Elliot.) Some are aware of the others, some are not and just lose time when another is dominant. Often one alter does indeed serve as the protector when a weaker personality is under threat. But there isn't a simple good-bad dimension to the various personalities like the transporter caused in Captain Kirk.

DID would make it very likely that Tyrell is another alter except that I can't see how those who know Elliot wouldn't notice that all the news media are calling him Tyrell Wellick or how Gideon, who knew them as holding very different jobs, wouldn't have said something. Still, that reveal wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

[queenanne]

My impression was that the Dark Army guy simply used the syringe as a way to torture Cisco, and that the end result of embedding the needle in his fingertip (ouch!), was in fact meant to be fakeout.  "I may inject you with this scary drug... or, I may just wind up giving you a painful but removable scare tactic reminder of what I meant to do, or could do to you, if I wanted to."

I join with those who loved the sitcom cold open and its commitment.

[green]

Just now, Cardie said:

Esmail has confirmed in interviews that Elliot suffers from dissociative identity disorder, what has colloquially been called "multiple" or "split personalities." The condition was made famous in the books and films Three Faces of Eve and Sybil. It is distinct from schizophrenia. Usually because of some emotional trauma, the sufferer's personality shatters into a number of "alters," who can be of different ages and genders. (His father pushing him out of the window would seem a likely originary trauma for Elliot.) Some are aware of the others, some are not and just lose time when another is dominant. Often one alter does indeed serve as the protector when a weaker personality is under threat. But there isn't a simple good-bad dimension to the various personalities like the transporter caused in Captain Kirk.

DID would make it very likely that Tyrell is another alter except that I can't see how those who know Elliot wouldn't notice that all the news media are calling him Tyrell Wellick or how Gideon, who knew them as holding very different jobs, wouldn't have said something. Still, that reveal wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

Cardie, thanks for the top paragraph.  I gave you a number of likes from past episode posts too.  But I have to totally disagree with you about not being surprised if Tryrell was also part of Elliot.  If that turned out true then the whole show goes in the crapper.  Period.  Because they would lose their total baseline of reality.

We know Tyrell is Swedish and married to a Danish woman.  They speak Swedish/Danish back and forth to each other at home.  They live in a comfortable, middle class home.  They had a baby together.  Every workday for some time (maybe years even) Tyrell had gone to work at E Corp and was known to countless people there and some people at Allsafe as well.  He also had worked his way up to the second behind the CTO of the corporation.  And for a short while held it temporarily.  Since the big hack his picture has been all over the newspapers of late meaning his body isn't any more imaginary this season than last.

We know Elliot is from New Jersey and have met his mother, sister and father (the non-Mr Robot version) in either flashbacks or real life.  Before returning to his Jersey home this season he lived alone and had (and still has apparently) a spartan apt in a run down area of the city where he has interacted with Shayla, her evil former boyfriend and his sister in the past.  He is or was on morphine and hacked his nights away there.  Every workday for some time (maybe years even) he had gone to work at Allsafe and was known to countless people there.  One of them is Angela who has known him and his sister since Elliot was young.

We have seen Eliot and Tyrell together and both looked at and responded to in that scene (unlike Eliot and Mr Robot scenes) with the team of E Corp lawyers.  Also at Allsafe when the old CTO and Tyrell met with Gideon, Angela and Elliot.  How much proof does anyone need that these are two separate characters?  There has been absolutely no hint that Tyrell and Eliot are one at all.  In my opinion it would be more likely Elliot could have been the drug dealer or Cisco or White Rose or Querty than he could be Tyrell.  And I ain't buying that Elliot = Querty any time soon.  :-)

Unless Elliot can split his body up into two parts as well as his mind it is totally 100% impossible he and Tyrell are the same person given their timelines etc.  We have two concrete people living concrete lives that can be verified by tons of people.  The only way they can be the same person is if the whole show takes place in Elliot's mind 100% which would break every rule of drama and reduce the show to something less than that "lost year" of Dallas years ago I hear about where that guy was dreaming it all or something like that.  No one would ever want their show to be compared to that major clunker.  And for a cable show with marginally ratings, it would kill it on the spot.  You can't mess with viewers by pulling stuff like that all of a sudden out of your hat.  It would invalidate the entire show.

Edited August 14, 2016 by green

[yourmomiseasy]

On 8/13/2016 at 2:16 AM, AliShibaz said:

I just rewatched this episode and I'd like to ask a question about Darlene's old bf. We see him go into a room that looks like a library and (presumably) some members of the Dark Army grab him and inject him with something that is supposed to help him remember to follow orders. But then, a few minutes later (the exact timing is difficult to be precise), he walks into a room with Angela, Darlene and the other two f-Society hackers and she seems to recognize him as the guy who gave her the CD that infected her PC (awa her bf's PC) and caused so much trouble for both of them at their workplace.

My question(s) are: Does anyone have any idea what it might have been the members of TDA injected him with? How was it supposed to punish him? Given we can't pin down the timing, it would still seem that it wasn't very long between the time he was injected and the time he met with Darlene & Angel et all.  Can anyone make a guess just what was going on there? What kind of instructions could he have disobeyed?

Presumably, the contents of the backpack was something that enabled Angela to hack the FBI. It was created by TDA and delivered by Angela. I have no idea what is going on with that subplot and I'd really appreciate if anyone would care to posit some guesses.

The backpack had the modded femtocell in it.  Cisco was showing more loyalty to Fsociety than the Dark Army when he was being slightly lippy to the Dark Army guy by bitching about how long it took and saying "these are my friends.  I don't want them to be in danger."  He was also asking questions when he should just be following orders because he's not high enough in rank.  So he needed a reminder to be loyal and know his place.  My take on the punishment is the same that was mentioned above -- they broke a hypodermic needle off under his fingernail.  You see him with his finger bandaged when he's giving Fsociety the femtocell.  I've had a splinter under my nail and it hurt a lot and I've had a hypodermic needle break off and get stuck and have to be dug out and it was really bad.  I imagine the combination of the two with the additional trauma of it being done violently, would hurt like a mofo.  It wouldn't cause permanent damage, but you'd remember not to f with the person that did it ever again.  Also of note, the syringe didn't actually have anything in it when it was taken out of the case, the plunger is all the way depressed, and the guy wasn't shown putting anything in it and didn't really have time to do so.  I don't know why you'd carry and empty syringe around in a case though, that seems lame.  The needles come with covers so they don't accidentally poke anything.  I just keep those on them until I use them and carry them in a small bag, but I guess I have a purse and am not carrying them around in my pocket like a guy might be.  (I have them for medical reasons, not recreational).

Edited August 14, 2016 by yourmomiseasy

[Cardie]

green, I have always been torn between the sheer illogic of it being possible for Elliot and Tyrell to be the same person in the show's real world, which you have detailed well, and the metaphoric ways that he is Elliot's doppelganger. So, although I agree it would be shark-jumping for that to be the case, all my English major vibes have prepared me from the beginning not to go into shock if Esmail pulls alter Tyrell out of his hat.

p.s. Thanks for all those likes.

Edited August 14, 2016 by Cardie

[AliShibaz]

yourmomiseasy,

Thanks very much for your excellent opinion. Not only is it likely true, but it made some of the background subplots more understandable. Well done.

[shapeshifter]

I needed @green's post to remind me why Tyrell cannot be an Elliot alter because we see Tyrell in the sitcom portion of the episode going through something that could really be happening to Elliot at that moment (being bound, beaten, and thrown into a trunk).

[Ailianna]

I just can't find any support for the idea that Elliott is in a mental hospital and hiding that fact from himself.  I know the theories are based on the issues last season, and people liking to think they're figuring out twists, but I just really don't see anything in the text that supports that, whereas with the Mr. Robot reveal, there are a lot of hints before the reveal.  GREEN has just added more support for the proposition that what we are seeing is what we are getting this season so far, and I think THAT may be the twist--that there isn't one.

[ganesh]

On 8/12/2016 at 6:32 AM, benteen said:

Gideon fit in well with a 1980s sitcom.  He looks a lot like Michael Gross from Family Ties.

It's the beard for sure. I thought Darlene stole the scenes in the sitcom part of the episode, and I was wondering if her getting punched was evidence of Eliot remembering her being abused as a kid. 

I loved the opening bit and the retro commercials because I remember when they were real. 

I was really rooting for Angela this episode. I thought the build up to her 'caper' was suspenseful and real. We were talking about 'rubber ducky' at work last week even.