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S28.E14: Split Decision/S28.E15: Reunion


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Does anyone know if the reunion us available to watch online? I took my dog out in between the episode and the reunion and she thought it would be a good idea to chase a skunk. I missed the reunion because I was too busy washing the dog and gagging from the smell. 

Thanks in advance! 

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I think Devin is predominantly a fame whore.  On AYTO, being the Zach is what got him the screen time he needed to be chosen for The Challenge.  Now that he's on The Challenge, he is better off being the Wes.  He'll be whoever he needs to be to get camera time.  I do think that this is closer to his real personality than the one he had on AYTO.

I believe Camila about the Vince thing.  She freaked out because she is Camila.  They don't seem to have so many bathrooms that no one ever has to poop while someone of the opposite gender is in the shower.  They have so little privacy that it isn't a big deal.

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I think Wes and john's rivalry is real but that they do have a certain amount of respect for each other that neither has for most of the other contestants.

https://www.gofundme.com/2hxyepg

So far only $255 raised. I think the whole idea of a GoFundMe for this is absurd. She's an able-bodied, middle class adult in the US with plenty of means. There are kids starving and people without water... People can do whatever with their money but REALLY? Doesn't her husband own wineries? Seems she has more $ than many and possibly more than most of the people donating... If I were her I'd HAVE TO donate it to charity.

Edited by Rebecca
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19 minutes ago, Tatum said:

The impression I got from his interview with EW is he would do it to anyone in real life with whom he doesn't care about having a continued relationship. So, would he do it to someone he considered a close friend, that he would miss if said friend told him to fuck off for not sharing? Probably not. But he said in his interview he really doesn't care about Sarah.

He said he'd do it to his own mother!

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Sometimes I have to laugh at what people make gofundme pages for. Some make sense but I've also seen others that don't. And this borders on ridiculous. Look I sort of feel for her, I still don't like her. It's a crap thing John did. I would feel for anyone he did to but these people should have known he would have done it to anyone. Because that is his nature.  But I don't get why Wes's logic that every other team had to be spilt the money but not John. John should have but he never would have with anyone and I'd consider him a crap human being regardless of who his partner is. And also this explains who he is as a person. 

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2 minutes ago, Tatum said:

I take that as more tongue in cheek hyperbole, but you never know.

I get what you mean, but I agree with WhosThatGirl's analogy about the scorpion and the frog - it's just his nature.  What he did to Sarah he'd do to Nany, Camilla, Paula, Cara Maria, CT, Wes, Leroy, even Vince - everyone!  And everyone includes his mother.  But Johnny being Johnny, he'd find an excuse each time and towards each person to justify his action.  

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44 minutes ago, LotusFlower said:

That's a great point.  Nany said there's no question he'd do the same to her, and even Johnny himself said he'd throw his own mother under the bus.  So if you think about it, this admission negates his whole I-only-did-to-Sarah-what-she-did-to-me defense.  If he's going with this argument ("It's a game....I won....I'm a six-time champion....she did it to me first"), then Sarah has nothing to do with his decision.  I wish somebody had pointed this out.

WORD!  Foot-in-mouth.  Although I would love for John to be taken down many pegs by a cast of Challengers who don't fall for his nonsense after this stunt, I still just do NOT want to watch him on TV anymore.  Not to mention, there's always going to be Dario-esq idiots who would probably still try to align with him if he does return. 

I wholeheartedly believe that if John had announced his decision to keep all of the winnings prior to Vince, Vince would have followed suit.  Jenna should count her lucky stars they came in 2nd and not 1st. 

I hope that Sarah doesn't have anything to do with the GoFundMe page.  That makes her look even more pathetic than she already does.  The only way to come out of that not looking like an ass would be to donate it to charity. 

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1 hour ago, kat165 said:

The only entertaining moment in the last challenge for me was when John said, "I think Vince was a dumpster in a past life." Laughed out loud. Although Devin was entertaining for the most part as well. What a wasted hour of viewing.

I wonder if we will ever see Cousin again. I noticed that he wasn't at the reunion.

Question: the last Aftershow we saw had Sara and Johnny getting along pretty well, all smiles and camaraderie. At that point they already knew Johnny kept the money, so why was Sara so over the top upset at the reunion?

I noticed while watching that AfterShow that there were multiple times where Sara looked pissed.  She played along with whatever was going on at any given moment, but when she wasn't speaking, she had that same look you get when you're out with someone who you're mad at, but you know you can't say anything to them about how mad you are until you're alone - that kind of clenched jaw, angry eyes look.  And there was that part where she was urging Nany to just be done with John, because of how shitty he is to her.  If she was still friends with John, I wouldn't expect her to say that kind of thing, especially in front of an audience and with him sitting right next to her.  I think that they sent her out there and told her she had to pretend everything was fine, because this was being shown not only before we knew the outcome, but before we knew there was an option as to how the money was split.  

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Producers came up with the gimmick, probably egged Johnny on to screw Sarah over.

You can bet he'll be on the next Challenge.

and yeah Vince may have thrown it and Johnny will give him some money.

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41 minutes ago, KerleyQ said:

I noticed while watching that AfterShow that there were multiple times where Sara looked pissed.  She played along with whatever was going on at any given moment, but when she wasn't speaking, she had that same look you get when you're out with someone who you're mad at, but you know you can't say anything to them about how mad you are until you're alone - that kind of clenched jaw, angry eyes look.  And there was that part where she was urging Nany to just be done with John, because of how shitty he is to her.  If she was still friends with John, I wouldn't expect her to say that kind of thing, especially in front of an audience and with him sitting right next to her.  I think that they sent her out there and told her she had to pretend everything was fine, because this was being shown not only before we knew the outcome, but before we knew there was an option as to how the money was split.  

Yup.  I gotta say - you said this even before you knew the outcome, so kudos.  BUT.....didn't they have a segment on that Aftershow specifically devoted to Sarah and Johnny's renewed friendship?  How on earth was she able to talk about that, knowing what she knew - that it was all fake, that he's a friend to no one, etc...

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The twist was stupid and not original. As was discussed in last episode, it was an idea stolen from The Bachelor Pad- and it was AWESOME. This version? Not so much. 

Actually to give credit where credit is due, Paradise Hotel was the first to have this twist.  Charla kept the money, screwing Dave.  Now that was reality tv awesome.

Johnny's a douche but I have a hard time mustering any sympathy for Sarah.  She should've known better then invest emotionally in that asshat.  

I feel like MTV is on dangerous ground with pulling out this twist.  People are less likely to sign on if there's a chance they can win and walk away with nothing. I also feel like it wouldn't have been added without Johnny & Sarah in the final.

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Well, just because Wes said it doesn't make it true. The guy has a degree from Penn State in economics. He may be an asshole, but he's not dumb. He runs a website where he sells ad space and also sells his stupid logo merchandise. Even after taxes, the guy has amassed probably half a million dollars (specifically from Challenge winnings over the last 8 years), and I'm sure he didn't just leave it in a checking account somewhere.  John is, for all his faults, a pretty shrewd guy, who I bet has spent some time with a financial planner.

See, I view him as a shrewd child and seriously don't think he's making the moon and the stars  or even chicken scratch selling bobble heads and T-shirts on a website tied to an aging cable show. I know many people who graduated from top universities who are dumb as all hell. He wanted to be an actor and applied to be on The Real World. Not exactly hedge fund material/let's set Wall Street on fire.

And I'm not sure any person who could support themselves would take part in this shitshowfor so long on top of it. There's a reason nobody else has ever done this except him.

A net worth search values John at 200K, Wes at 500K. Granted, nobody really knows what one spends, but it does track what is earned.

  • Love 6
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I don't even feel bad for Sarah and it was such poetic justice with the way she was acting all season long. She kissed ass the entire time to make up for her obvious betrayal (though I didn't blame her for making a game move). Now that the shoe is on the other foot, she can't understand his game move and she's disgusted by it. Sarah can get out. Quick to play the victim and she was acting like such a whiny brat. You do realize that you showed up to a TV taping where they would be cameras right? You've worked with MTV long enough to know that the cameras aren't 'invading' your space just because you choose to run away from the stage. Nany called it - she understood why Sarah may have convinced herself that Johnny would split the money but Nany also knows that Johnny was going to play game first. If he was partners with Evan or Kenny...then maybe I doubt whether he would have taken the whole prize money but that's about the only potential exceptions I can think of. 

Johnny is right, what he did was no different. They may have needed each other to get to the final but they didn't know about the twist challenge until they got there (and besides that, if they knew from the start, they would have still needed to work together to get to the finale anyhow). Once they knew about the twist, they were all made aware that they still had to compete and work with their partner to finish. Sarah had the same opportunity that Johnny did to hold the power in her hands to make the decision for the both of them.

After that big spiel about not sure how much is left in the tank, I wonder if Johnny will in fact lay off with all of the challenges. 

Wes was really entertaining at the reunion. Devin was pretty hilarious as well - "commit to one and I'll do it with you", haha. 

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Had to go to bed early. Saw the finale on DVR. Got about five minutes into the Reunion, and I turned it off after Sarah stormed off. If I had a brain in my head, I'd delete the remaining 55 minutes. But I won't. I will watch the rest of it, because I hate myself.

Sarah went into the final mission in a no-win situation. If she got more points and kept the money, she'd be fucking over Johnny, and we can't have that. If she split it (which still counts as a heavy payout), people like me get to lambast her for being a doormat. Meanwhile, I am convinced that when Johnny comes back . . . and if y'all don't think he's coming back, I got a bridge in Brooklyn I want to sell ya . . . he will not be vilified for his choice. Even if you strip him of his idiot cousin and whatever other Banana-suckers that plague this show, it's still a guys' paradise. I'm convinced most of the money will go to Hannah Teter, who will claim that Johnny is his boyfriend for the next few years. Seriously, I doubt they're in an actual relationship. And if they are, he probably calls out his own name during climax. Or Leroy's. Or Kenny's.

I feel that a BMP flunky sidled up to him before the teams met TJ for the last time, told him he and Sarah won, then offered him an extra $25,000 to throw her under the bus. Three hundred thousand is a nice round number, isn't it?

Johnny broke Sarah. Even if she did come back to the stage, she is broken. And unlike a lot of the females on this show, she wasn't that fucked up to begin with. Wanna know the difference between what she did and what you did, Johnny? You and Nany had a chance to win and advance to the BOTE2 finale. You didn't. You failed, and you'd rather blame Sarah for that than yourself. Fuck you. Fuck you so hard. I really hope he gets his ass beat down someday, and that we can watch it happen. CT, Jenna, Nany, Wes, Budget Wes, Sarah, Sarah's husband, Svetlana . . . fuck, even if Vince blindsides him with a steel chair, I'd give him props and apologize for referring to him as "Wince" and "idiot cousin."

Worst season ever? I think that's still The Ruins, even before we heard about what happened to Tonya. But this has to be the worst finale ever.

I'll have more when I feel less nauseous. And seriously, Devin is not the voice of reason just because he hates Johnny so much. Basically, he's Ted Cruz at the RNC. "Yes, we know Johnny is a scumbag. What else ya got for us, Dev? To Serve Man is a cookbook? Soylent Green is made of people?" And Sarah chiding the audience applauding Johnny's choice . . . thank you! A Survivor reunion crowd would have thrown shit at him for being that big of a fuck.

ETA: If it turns out BMP gave Johnny the deciding two points, I would not be surprised. As much as I want Johnny rolled down a staircase, Jon Murray and his buddies shouldn't be far behind him.

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2 hours ago, snarts said:

Actually to give credit where credit is due, Paradise Hotel was the first to have this twist.  Charla kept the money, screwing Dave.  Now that was reality tv awesome.

Johnny's a douche but I have a hard time mustering any sympathy for Sarah.  She should've known better then invest emotionally in that asshat.  

I feel like MTV is on dangerous ground with pulling out this twist.  People are less likely to sign on if there's a chance they can win and walk away with nothing. I also feel like it wouldn't have been added without Johnny & Sarah in the final.

Ok I don't want to get off topic but Paradise Hotel was AWESOME. And I loved when Charla did that to Dave.

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Why was so much time devoted to whether Camila and Vince hooked up in the shower? Who cares?!

I don't really have anything to add to the Johnny/Sarah situation, you guys have pretty much said it all. I hope neither of them comes back.

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This whole thing just got a million times more dramatic.  John tweeted screen shots from text conversations he had with Susie (who is, supposedly, Sarah's BFF), where Susie is saying she agrees with his decision and is basically putting Sarah down for her reaction.  Susie's response was to say that she approved of good game play, but she has since changed her mind about his move, since she found out he took Adderall to stay up all night, and the show fined him $5,000 for using it.  

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6 hours ago, kat165 said:

Question: the last Aftershow we saw had Sara and Johnny getting along pretty well, all smiles and camaraderie. At that point they already knew Johnny kept the money, so why was Sara so over the top upset at the reunion?

From what I've read from people that get some of the spoilers throughout filming and stuff, is that the producers encourage them to try to act as closely to what their mentality/relationships are on the show currently. So Johnny/Sarah were back on friendly terms at that point in the aired show, so they wanted to them to seem like it on that episode of the Aftershow. I'm also sure that actually talking about it all worked Sarah up at the reunion.

6 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

Since the future of this show seems to be AYTO, I think they should do a season of half AYTO and newbie RW, and the other half veterans.   It could be called old school versus new school.  If there were some tie in incentive of sticking to your team, it could possibly neutralize the veterans manipulating everything.  Or maybe a third Fresh Meat.  Or maybe a season of "second chances" with the cast having never reached a final. 

They were really setting up an AYTO vs Challengers thing earlier in the season, though it kind of fizzled out by midseason. But I wouldn't be surprised to see a Cutthroat style theme at some point, maybe AYTO vs RW vs Challenge Originals (Fresh Meat or Bloodlines).

  • Love 2
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1 hour ago, KerleyQ said:

.....since she found out he took Adderall to stay up all night, and the show fined him $5,000 for using it.  

Wait - WHAT?!  He took Adderall?  And the producers found out, and fined him?  But still let him keep the money?  I don't care about the Susie or Sarah element in this, I care that he cheated.  Since it's the eve of the Olympics, I'm going to say I think he should have been disqualified.  For real.  

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21 minutes ago, LotusFlower said:

Wait - WHAT?!  He took Adderall?  And the producers found out, and fined him?  But still let him keep the money?  I don't care about the Susie or Sarah element in this, I care that he cheated.  Since it's the eve of the Olympics, I'm going to say I think he should have been disqualified.  For real.  

That is kind of unfair that he was able to essentially cheat. The Sarah and Susie stuff is not important but the fact that this is all coming to light and MTV is like, whatever, because they want John as they seem to think he's the star of these shows.

And look, I don't think I feel bad for Sarah. My hate for John is just growing because of this.  I do think Sarah is an idiot for buying into his game, though. There were many times throughout the show where I thought he was playing her and also.. Wes kind of called how this  rebuilt friendship was a sham. during her ' i don't like who Wes is in thia game'. 

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I kind of don't mind Sarah possibly suing the show.  I'm in agreement at the suspicion that the rule was made after it was clear Johnny was going to make it to the finals.  It's also suspicious how vague it was regarding who stayed on the log more versus in the tent.  

Also, Bachelor Pad rules were known from the start.  And one member of the team didn't have power over the other.  They each voted privately and it determined if money was shared or kept by one.  

The entire thing was bogus and the men had a much greater advantage - as evidenced by the fact that every male in each team won.

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Got two more minutes into the reunion before tapping out for the night. Did anybody get the vibe that Sarah was intentionally putting on a show? I mean, I wouldn't expect that from her, but I can't see why she'd be at the Reunion. Did MTV promise her that they'd clean the cameras long enough for her to sucker-punch Johnny? I'd ask for a taped segment explaining why Johnny is such a fucksuck.

Sarah might sue the show? I wish her the best. Once again, I would not be surprised if she spent more time on the stump, and BMP gave the points to Johnny to create a better ending. Can't have anybody getting one up on Johnny twice, right?

BMP should pack it in in 2017. It will be 25 years since the original season of The Real World. What better time to pull the plug? And it would explain why Johnny pulled his move . . . if he split the money and MTV cancelled the show, he'd have six months worth of money before he'd be put out on the streets.

Speaking of the dough . . . a split of $275K would still have been the biggest payout in Challenge, right? And to think I got mad over Eric Fucking Nies getting $60,000. Johnny is a greedy motherfucker.

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Do they receive some kind of stipend?  Because otherwise I don't know why Sarah wouldn't just tell MTV to fuck off and not show up for the after shows or the reunion, especially if she doesn't plan on coming back anyways.   Of course she would be in breach of contract, but I doubt she has a whole hell of a lot to sue for.  I don't imagine it would be enough to justify their own legal expenses.  They needed her at the reunion to have a huge reaction, and she gave them that, that's for sure.  She should have either told them to fuck off and not gone, or fuck off and gone and been silent.  

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15 hours ago, NoirDetective said:

I'm sort of unclear here. If you're talking about Wes, I think that likely is true. If you're talking about Johnny, I don't think that is remotely true. 

Wes has slammed John for having his mom pay his rent in a past season. And on this reunion Wes said Johnny would be working fast food and be dead broke at 40. Even if a joke, there's some truth behind every yada yada. Besides bar appearances, I'm not sure I've ever heard of John having any ambition beyond a failed acting dream in all of his seemingly infinite seasons. 

I think Johnny's main "job" is being on The Challenge/gym training when he's not on the show. 

If I were a producer who had to wrangle/sympathize with these loons, I would be very depressed. 

 

And what was that Vince/Camila thing? Was the implication she was waiting to have sex with John? Or that Vince had sex with her and was then offering John the opportunity as well? 

Either option is...distressing.

This is my first time posting so forgive me if I make a mistake!   The Vince/ Camilla thing was meant to be confusing & it pisses me off that no one on that cast will spill the beans on bananas. Especially after he screwed his partner out of her share of their winnings.

Camilla was in the shower waiting for bananas. They've hooked up many times which is why they were partners on Battle of the Ex's & also why Camilla freaked out one season & screamed "you're a cheater" at bananas. 

Vince was totally covering for Bananas because he has a serious girlfriend that he screws around on every challenge. Notice how Vince kept asking Johnny if he was going to get in the shower? Johnny said yeah & then pretended he was asleep. It was obvious. That's also why Vince yelled about the camera guy. Then Camilla walked out because she knew Johnny wasn't going in the shower.

Most of the cast know that Bananas screws around yet they say nothing at the reunion. They're cowards. Camilla was telling the truth when she denied anything happened with Vince. She wasn't waiting for Vince, she was there for Bananas. 

16 hours ago, NoirDetective said:

I'm sort of unclear here. If you're talking about Wes, I think that likely is true. If you're talking about Johnny, I don't think that is remotely true. 

Wes has slammed John for having his mom pay his rent in a past season. And on this reunion Wes said Johnny would be working fast food and be dead broke at 40. Even if a joke, there's some truth behind every yada yada. Besides bar appearances, I'm not sure I've ever heard of John having any ambition beyond a failed acting dream in all of his seemingly infinite seasons. 

I think Johnny's main "job" is being on The Challenge/gym training when he's not on the show. 

If I were a producer who had to wrangle/sympathize with these loons, I would be very depressed. 

 

And what was that Vince/Camila thing? Was the implication she was waiting to have sex with John? Or that Vince had sex with her and was then offering John the opportunity as well? 

Either option is...distressing.

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6 hours ago, colorbars said:

From what I've read from people that get some of the spoilers throughout filming and stuff, is that the producers encourage them to try to act as closely to what their mentality/relationships are on the show currently. So Johnny/Sarah were back on friendly terms at that point in the aired show, so they wanted to them to seem like it on that episode of the Aftershow. I'm also sure that actually talking about it all worked Sarah up at the reunion.

Yeah, but that doesn't explain why Sarah had Johnny on her personal podcast a few weeks ago. Is she that desperate that she would bring him on as a PR move even though she kind of hates his guts? My suspension of disbelief is at an all time low with this show. I keep thinking back to all the times Sarah got disqualified because her partner bailed and I think this is simply the last chapter in her long-suffering narrative. Meh, Paula is the OG queen of Bananas Betrayal. This is just a cheap imitation.

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I believe that MTV gave Sarah the money, but wanted to pull the biggest asshole move in challenge history so they had johnny do that to her. During the reunion show, she seemed believably mad, but during the actual challenge when he pulled that stunt, she barely seemed bothered by it. I would have pushed him off the mountain for sure. She was covering her face probably to hide from bad acting. I don't know if the suing MTV thing is true, but if Johnny indeed really did keep the money and in the contract it says first place winner gets a split of the share, then she definitely can win a lawsuit. 

Sarah annoyed me throughout the entire season. I think she has such an irritating personality. But when he did that, I felt so bad for her. As annoying as she is, she's a great competitor and for sure deserved that money. She was even helping Johnny when he couldn't figure out that the rivals puzzle was upside down. I would hope if MTV didn't give her the money, he gave her a check for some of it. But.... im gonna say that didn't happen

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I feel bad for Sarah that she feels she needs a slimeball like John to like her. She seems smart but she couldn't realize that John's over-the-top (and nauseating) displays of affection when they won missions were fake? He couldn't stop with the PDA after they won that last elimination. That overacting is what leads me to believe he was aware of the twist prior to the final. He was just so damned happy that she was going to win him lots of money and she didn't even see the knife coming at her back. If he didn't know about the twist, why bother playing up the "we're friends again" relationship the whole time? Let's face it, you know if Sarah and John had spent the entire challenge not getting along, they both still would've gone for the win because they're competitive, and they wanted the money. The result would've been the same, John would've kept the money and cited revenge as the reason. Sarah would still be pissed but she wouldn't feel so bad about being made to look a fool, and people wouldn't be saying she deserved what she got. But John went the extra mile to play her because he knew he'd be able to get at her both financially and emotionally. What makes me angrier than John's decision to keep the all money is the thought that production may have aided him to the win in any way, either by telling him about the twist ahead of time or fudging the results of the final which we, and apparently the players also, have no way of verifying. 

The fact that John and Sarah were friends at the time of BOTE2 was a surprise to me because I remember reading well before that challenge that Sarah wasn't liked by some for exposing the fact that John hooked up on challenges while he had a girlfriend, specifically Cutthroat I believe. I think I'm remembering that right.

John's affection on that last After Show was too much, I think he even touched Sarah's face, didn't he? She seemed visibly creeped out by it at times and he was probably loading it on because he knew she couldn't divulge what happened at the final.

If Susie thought John's decision to keep all of the money was good game playing, that tells me she would have been a greedy bitch as well.

No one even mentioned that Jenna managed to eat some of those plates of food in the final, and she wasn't even gagging or holding her nose. Vince, you need to take back your comments about the nuggets.  I was surprised that Vince was leading her throughout the final, she had such good endurance in the Bloodlines final.

I think Sarah's seemingly low key reaction to John's decision at the final was total disbelief and probably that feeling you get when you realize what a fool you've been to trust someone. She had months to think about it by the time of the reunion and would understandably be in an angrier place.  Why she's flip flopping back and forth about him as a friend, who knows?

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1 hour ago, dangwoodchucks said:

No one even mentioned that Jenna managed to eat some of those plates of food in the final, and she wasn't even gagging or holding her nose.

I noticed this as well, and was impressed.  She didn't even complain once.  Quite a difference from her past finals.  The past few challenges, she's kinda been flying under the radar because people think she's too dumb to figure shit out.  But, now that she's been to 3 (4?) finals in a row, they'll be gunning for her.  If she practices her puzzles and her politics game, she could be a real force to reckon with in future challenges. 

11 hours ago, Vicky8675309 said:

I wish the reunion had addressed the bullying of Cheyenne by Johnny and Vince!

I was waiting for that and just realized after seeing your post that it never happened.    Also, why were there only 6 teams at the reunion?  Where was everyone else??

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12 hours ago, scrb said:

I wouldn't be surprised if they take other things, like PEDs.

I'm absolutely sure some do.  (And I'd be willing to bet that John is one of them.) 

2 hours ago, Jaclyn88 said:

I believe that MTV gave Sarah the money, but wanted to pull the biggest asshole move in challenge history so they had johnny do that to her. During the reunion show, she seemed believably mad, but during the actual challenge when he pulled that stunt, she barely seemed bothered by it. I would have pushed him off the mountain for sure. She was covering her face probably to hide from bad acting. I don't know if the suing MTV thing is true, but if Johnny indeed really did keep the money and in the contract it says first place winner gets a split of the share, then she definitely can win a lawsuit. 

Sarah annoyed me throughout the entire season. I think she has such an irritating personality. But when he did that, I felt so bad for her. As annoying as she is, she's a great competitor and for sure deserved that money. She was even helping Johnny when he couldn't figure out that the rivals puzzle was upside down. I would hope if MTV didn't give her the money, he gave her a check for some of it. But.... im gonna say that didn't happen

I was totally saying "push him off the mountain" when John said he'd keep the money.   

As for Sarah suing, I bet she won't get far with it.  I'd be surprised if there wasn't a clause in the contracts they signed that says something along the lines of "prize money to be distributed at producer's discretion."  If the cast members are even reading every line of their contracts (and I wouldn't be surprised to learn that a lot of the regulars just sign it thinking "same old contract I sign every time"), when they get to that line, they probably assume it's referring to the announcement TJ does at the beginning of each season, telling them the total prize money and how it's allocated to each team that reaches the final.  And, honestly, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the same clause was in every season's contract, because that can cover their butts in a variety of circumstances that could potentially arise, like someone cheating at some point along the course of the final challenge, or someone breaking one of the overall rules during the final.  

From what I understand of contracts for The Challenge and similar shows, they are generally pretty protective of the show's interests, specifically so they can avoid things like Sarah suing them now.  For example, as Sarah can verify*, it's possible to be sent home early through no fault of your own - you can obey all the rules, you can avoid injury, etc, but if you're partnered up with someone who breaks the rules, you're just as done as they are.  (*Maybe Susie has a point, and Sarah should just stick to "civilian life."  This is obviously a more extreme example, but it all boils down to the idea that you can do everything "right," and it still doesn't guarantee you anything.  With all of the experience BMP and MTV have at doing these shows, I'd be shocked if there wasn't something in the contract Sarah signed that makes this twist totally legitimate.  Shitty, but legitimate.  

Reading TJ's tweets, he thinks the twist itself and John taking advantage of it were dirty moves.  Although he gives John more credit than I do, in saying that, he thinks that John wouldn't make the same choice again after having time to think about it.  Please.  He thought about nothing else for the two days they were competing in the final, and he's shown exactly zero remorse since then, even doubling down enough to try to throw dirt on Sarah and Susie's friendship.  (By the way, I think that him doing that really contrasts that whole "he's a great guy off screen" thing.  The season's over, he's done what he's done, and while he does have some people coming down on him on social media, he has about an equal number saying they loved the move and would have done the same, so he's not losing much fan support or anything.  The only reason to make private text messages public at this point was to be a petty ass and give the knife an extra twist.)  

Now that they've done this twist, I hope that, next time John's on, they do the twist the way Bachelor Pad does it.  Because there is just no way that whoever is partnered with him is going to trust him enough to go "split it."  Now that he's pulled this, and proudly said he'd do it to his own mother, your only choice, as his partner, is to say you'll keep it all.  That way, if you don't get any money, neither does he, and if actually attempts to do the right thing, you get it all, but there's no chance that you come out like Sarah - getting nothing while he walks away with it all.  I can see trusting other people, but no way should anyone trust him, even if he swears on his mother's life that he'll split the money.  I'd lay even odds that, if he and his partner both said "take it all," he'd still sit there at the reunion all indignant that his partner did this to him and cost him money, while conveniently ignoring that he was equally responsible for it since he also said "take it all." Because John is absolutely that far up his own ass.  I could totally see him sitting on that stage self-righteously ranting about how his latest "Judas cost me $275,000." 

  • Love 10
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1 hour ago, Sonoma said:

dangwoodchucks, it was Cara Maria who exposed Johnny's cheating, which is why none of the castmembers flinched when Vince/Johnny told Abram about CM cheating with Thomas. He and Sarah were friends going into BOTE2, and if I remember correctly, he (and Kenny?) helped her get into condition for the Challenge. They were also in an alliance going into the challenge. 

As to why she flip flops back and forth, as many of them do, because apparently he can be this good friend, great person, whomp whomp outside of the show. Another poster commented on how Nany is not able to reconcile Johnny Bananas with Johnny, which is why her emotions are in a constant state of flux about him, and I think Sarah was in that same situation. My thing is, if you KNOW that he has made his living, a good living at that, being the "Johnny Bananas, villain of The Challenge", why would you think he is going to allow his personal feelings get in the way of winning and setting the internet ablaze with the dirtiest move of all time unless your name is Vince or Leroy? (Out of current castmembers.) He has done nothing to prove otherwise.

Thanks, I wasn't sure I remembered everything right. Sonoma, are you involved in production?

I think if this twist had happened on Bloodlines when Vince was John's partner, he still would have kept all the money.

Regarding John being different outside of the show, I don't understand why someone would be friends with someone who will turn on you just because there are cameras, a reality show and money to be won. That's not a friend, or even a nice person, that's a narcissist, and an asshole. Unless you enjoy the emotional tug-of-war you can't reconcile those two parts. The best thing for Nany, or anyone, to do is distance yourself like Sarah said. She needs to take her own advice.

  • Love 4
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I agree that John is no different outside of this show then he was with cameras on him, on this show. This is who he who he is. What makes me shake my heads is that all these people-minus a few- will stomp and shake their heads when John hurts them but then by the next challenge, they will go back on their word because they think he's going to help them this time. I don't get it? I hope, if anything, this season at least provokes a revolt in future challengers as to not trust John and get him out as fast as possible. 

  • Love 7
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16 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

I agree that John is no different outside of this show then he was with cameras on him, on this show. This is who he who he is. What makes me shake my heads is that all these people-minus a few- will stomp and shake their heads when John hurts them but then by the next challenge, they will go back on their word because they think he's going to help them this time. I don't get it? I hope, if anything, this season at least provokes a revolt in future challengers as to not trust John and get him out as fast as possible. 

I came up with a theory and posted in on Johnny's thread. You can read it on my blog. It's a little gruesome, but I feel it makes a lot of sense.

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MTV (Bunim/Murray) certainly protects itself with iron-clad contracts, so they can add twists to the game and send people home at their discretion, but I'm pretty sure they're subjected to game show regulations mandated by the FCC (enacted after the Quiz Show scandal of the 1950's).  I'm as cynical as the next person, but giving Johnny the info. ahead of time, secretly paying Sarah, conspiracy stuff of this nature all runs afoul of the regulations, so I don't think any of this happened.  Did they play dirty by informing the teams of the twist at the last minute?  Yes, but that's permissible.  (Secretly) telling only one contestant is not.

As for Sarah suing the show, is that a rumor, a theory, or did someone read that somewhere?  If there's any validity to the rumor, she doesn't have any claim to the prize money for reasons discussed, but I think she has a good case if it's over the Adderall cheating, esp. since they fined him, which shows admission on their part that he cheated.  It's like PED-cheating in any sport - the contestants weren't playing on a level playing field, and this affected the outcome.  Johnny got 2 points for staying up all night and winning the stump challenge, which likely gave him the win over Sarah.  That means he won by cheating.  Go for it, Sarah.  You were robbed.

  • Love 7
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The contracts for these shows are ridiculous. I remember on Chelsea Lately a few years back on her roundtable she was talking about a headline being some things on the RW contract and my memory is fuzzy but I swear there were crazy things in there that made me shake my head. Anyways..

Look, like I said, it'snot like I feel bad for Sarah, per say but it's still a crap thing for someone to do and it does make me view John in a more awful way. He isn't different outside of this show. He can't be if as he says it multiple times, that this is her source of income and his job. Your job is very much a part of who you are as a person, and consider his job is this, then this is who he is.  So in the sense of I feel bad, it's just because it's a crap thing to do, but Sarah did lie down with a dog. I get that she probably didn't know that this was rivals, but once she found it, she didn't have to grovel for John's forgiveness with tears and also become BFFs with him again. She could have done her part in the missions and let that be that, she really groveled to him and to extent and went along with his game and whatever he wanted.  Wes called her out on this and warned her. 

  • Love 3
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Just as I predicted last week, I wasn't surprised that Johnny didn't split the money with Sarah. I said I wouldn't feel bad for her if he did that because she was kissing up to him the whole time this season, but I did end up feeling bad for her. On Exes 2, she pulled a power move and threw him into an elimination, but he had the chance to come back and win that money that he still cries about to this day. They were not on the same team like on this season where they were partners and depended on each other to win so what he did to her in my opinion, was way worse than what she did to him. Not only did his decision come from a desire to get back at her, but also from the fact that it's just his nature to screw over anyone for his own benefit as seen on previous Challenges. That being said, congratulations Johnny for having the honor of pulling the dirtiest move in all of Challenge history! Anyone who trusts him on any future Challenges is just a plain dummy.

So I'm assuming Nate and Nicole will be partnered up on the next season of Exes?

I didn't care too much for Devin and Cheyenne when they got eliminated and came back, but those two really grew on me. I was rooting for them to finish and I'm glad they did.

  • Love 7
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I've gotten past forty minutes on the Reunion. Sarah would have been within her rights to have choked Johnny out, and I don't think a jury would have blamed her. I still don't like Wes and Devin for being anti-Johnny because I find them to be elitist. Amazing that nobody brought up Devin & Cheyenne losing the first Jungle. On the bright side, Sarah articulated how her move in BOTE2 was nowhere near as ugly as Johnny's. I feel bad for her . . . the only way she can get over looking like an object of pity is to come back and steamroll the competition again, or retire and hope people have short memories.

I can believe that Wince and Camila didn't hook up. I can also see why they would deny it . . . Wince wouldn't want to "stick it in crazy," Camila probably doesn't want to be seen grinding on the same family tree and its small, gnarled branches. Is the Wince/Jenna rumor still in play, or is that squashed?

ETA: Nessa congratulating Johnny & Sarah on their win? Fuck you, Nessa. Sarah could have knocked her out, and I wouldn't have blamed her. This show brings out the worst in everybody, myself included.

ETA2: Wince got a full-ride scholarship to Penn State? Wow. Make your own Jerry Sandusky joke. I guess some people don't have standards.

  • Love 2
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Quote

 On the bright side, Sarah articulated how her move in BOTE2 was nowhere near as ugly as Johnny's. 

This is what I said a few posts back. I don't like Sarah and I stand by saying she lied down with a dog and got what was going to happen, but... Johnny saying and using the "I'm only doing what was done to me" doesn't make sense. Johnny was sent to an elimination round to fight to stay in a game. He also was sent there not having money that he had rightfully won possibly taking away. Sarah won money-rightfully so- and worked hard and it was all taken away from her, without a chance. I don't see how these things add up to being the same. 

  • Love 9
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11 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

This is what I said a few posts back. I don't like Sarah and I stand by saying she lied down with a dog and got what was going to happen, but... Johnny saying and using the "I'm only doing what was done to me" doesn't make sense. Johnny was sent to an elimination round to fight to stay in a game. He also was sent there not having money that he had rightfully won possibly taking away. Sarah won money-rightfully so- and worked hard and it was all taken away from her, without a chance. I don't see how these things add up to being the same. 

Not to mention that John lost an elimination twice that season.  He and Nany just weren't a strong enough team together to get it done.  That's not Sarah's fault.  And, for all of the bitching that he's done about how evil Sarah was to do that to him, he knows damn well that, if he was faced with that decision, and he was looking at two really strong teams who could potentially go into the final with him, leaving him facing a possible third place finish, vs. ensuring that the "layup" team made the final with a solid hold on third place, he would have sent the two strong teams in against each other so that he only had to worry about one of them in the final.  He likely wouldn't do it to Vince or to someone like Leroy, but he would have absolutely done the same to Sarah and Jordan if he was the one who won that time and had the option of sending in the two of them or Jenna and her dipshit ex.  He just hates that someone else dared to take a page out of his book.  And he used that to excuse being an ass and taking all of the money this time.  

And you notice he's talking out of both sides of his mouth on this one.  One moment, he'll be playing the poor victim of Sarah who was finally able to avenge the great wrong done to him.  The next, he'll be posturing and saying how he would have done it to his own mother.  Personally, I think the latter is the truth.  He would have stuck it to anyone to get that big payday.  And he knows it only works for him that he's now known as "the guy who pulled the dirtiest move in Challenge history."  As they say, any press is good press.  He knows that being a controversial cast member just ups his profile (and helps him sell more of those shitty t-shirts). He likely loved hearing Devin and Vince saying they'll split, because, that way, his move had a bigger impact.  

I just hope that, next time he shows up on a season, he finds himself with no allies (unless his cousin is along for the ride again, or Johnny R, since he seems like he's stupid enough to still latch onto John's coattails).  I want to see his ass get thrown in every single elimination until he's gone.  Maybe it can be one of those large team challenges, where the winning team splits the money among whoever is left at the end of the season, and his team can keep voting him in because none of them want to get to the final, win, and find out that he somehow gets to decide how the money is split among them.  

  • Love 5
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Caught the rest of the Reunion. "Challenged Awards"? Ugh. And Thomas was nominated for "Wants To Go Home"? Didn't he leave because his girlfriend was sick? MTV, man. Those people fucking suck.

Also sucking . . . nobody in the streets of New York pummeling Johnny out of general principle. Doesn't he look like the sort that would need a beating? I mean, Wince asks for it more, but still . . .

  • Love 3
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2 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

Caught the rest of the Reunion. "Challenged Awards"? Ugh. And Thomas was nominated for "Wants To Go Home"? Didn't he leave because his girlfriend was sick? MTV, man. Those people fucking suck.

Also sucking . . . nobody in the streets of New York pummeling Johnny out of general principle. Doesn't he look like the sort that would need a beating? I mean, Wince asks for it more, but still . . .

Yup Thomas left because his girlfriend  was in the hospital. 

  • Love 1
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These finals have become so formulaic and unimaginative. Run, do a task, stop, run some more, stop, stand around somewhere all night, eat something gross, stop, solve a puzzle, stop, run some more. But wait, the end isn't even the end, give us a moment to tally numbers no one can verify. 

This thing with Johnny using Adderall and only being fined for it is such BS. Sarah should've been awarded those 2 points since he cheated during that stage. Better yet, he should have been DQ'd and she would win by default. I would normally say the team should have been DQ'd altogether, but TPTB made the rule that partners were competing against each other so Sarah should have gotten those points which probably would've put her on top.  

  • Love 7
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