Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency (2016) - General Discussion

[Charlesman]

40 minutes ago, Adira said:

But haven't the Cardenas been dead/missing for 30-40 years or something?  Whereas the original Blackwing isn't THAT old, right?  Because Dirk is maybe 25-35 and was in Blackwing.  Or do we think Blackwing has been around long before they even had Dirk?  So I don't think the Cardenas' kid could've been in Blackwing?

I don't know, but the car wasn't really in that tree for 40 years though, and Dirk wasn't inside the trunk all that time... there must be some sort of time-effect connecting the past to today. 

[justmehere]

I can't wait to see a Bart/Ken reunion.

[ajsnaves]

I don't think "The Boy" is "The Mage".  I think the The Mage is the Cardenas Boy's father, or whoever is the evil force behind the destruction of the boy's world.  I think "The Boy" is the old man in the coma we saw in the first episode.  If this happened when the kid was 10 years old, 50 years ago, that would put him at 60 years old.  I went back, and he could conceivably be 60 years old if he had a rough life, and allowed his hair and beard to grow uncontrollably.

[Chyromaniac]

It’s probably a long shot at best - but I just can’t shake this feeling that somehow “the boy” will turn out to be Dirk himself.

[Coconuts]

On 11/8/2017 at 11:43 AM, ajsnaves said:

I don't think "The Boy" is "The Mage".  I think the The Mage is the Cardenas Boy's father, or whoever is the evil force behind the destruction of the boy's world.  I think "The Boy" is the old man in the coma we saw in the first episode.  If this happened when the kid was 10 years old, 50 years ago, that would put him at 60 years old.  I went back, and he could conceivably be 60 years old if he had a rough life, and allowed his hair and beard to grow uncontrollably.

I just assumed that was Odin, and a wink to the book readers.

[sjohnson]

The plot for this season, as we viewers see it, started when Dirk met the old man. I believe people who think he was the Cardenas boy are correct. He created the pocket universe and his goal is for Dirk to save him from Blackwing and take him to his spiritual home. We still have to see how the boat connects, or how the Cardenas family were murdered. But I do wonder if Bart was supposed to kill Susie and not doing so has created a mess?

Dirk asked how Todd (and implicitly Amanda) was connected. But I thought last season they mentioned that the Brotzman parents were experimental subjects, which was what gave them the pararibulities, but no powers. That's why Amanda, a Blackwing by heredity, can be fed on by the Rowdy Three without suffering ill effects. But does that mean if Todd was fed upon too, he also would see visions?

[ZoqFotPik]

I love that the third largest music festival in Southern Montana could fit in a single barn.

Bra'tac! Always good to see Tony Amendola. I hope he survives because he seems to be the key to what happened in the house. So, everything seems to have started because of something that came from the boat. 

Panto and Bart bonding was cute.

The Witch and Mona are played by the same actress, right? Their voices sounded similar and the Witch had the stress toy.

And the Rowdy Three are back together! Poor Sheriff Hobbs.

[MarkHB]

Interesting that both Dirk and Bart (Bartine?) are trying to be less holistic this season. Dirk's trying to be a "real detective" and Bart's trying to not kill so many people.

[talktalk]

I thought Panto is gay and has a boy friend? Why is he being so lovey dovey with Bart?

I hope Sheriff Hobbs was not turned into dust!!!

[theatremouse]

I really hope this isn't going in a 

Spoiler

Lego Movie

direction. That'd be really unsatisfying, like the opposite of how satisfying I found the previous season.

[possibilities]

40 minutes ago, talktalk said:

I thought Panto is gay and has a boy friend? Why is he being so lovey dovey with Bart?

I hope Sheriff Hobbs was not turned into dust!!!

Maybe Panto is bi. Or maybe he's just friendly. Or maybe he's manipulating Bart for some ulterior motive.

I also hope the Sheriff is OK.

[snowwhyte]

I think Panto is just a nice guy and a hero in the fairytale sense. Bart has a child-like vulnerability and she was the only one that was nice to him when he arrived. I think he feels protective of her.

I was grinning at the scenes of the gang getting high and admitting how much they all meant to each other and then Amanda reuniting the Rowdy Three. Naturally they had to have something possibly happen to the Sheriff to balance it out.

[AnimeMania]

2 hours ago, talktalk said:

I thought Panto is gay and has a boy friend? Why is he being so lovey dovey with Bart?

I though it might have something to do with the spell that Suzie uses on the crowd, I am not sure how far the area effected was. Pure plot contrivance that Suzie drops her wand and it takes an hour and a half for her to find it again or "is it all connected". 

[sjohnson]

Tyler Labine I don't think was ever credited as a regular. Worse, Dirk was moaning about lovely people dying at this point. I am not hopeful. 

Dirk saying "This is just stupid" was past lampshading, into shout out. 

Don't see how they're going to avoid time travel, but don't see how they'll do it either. But The 67 and the fall of the Infant Male Pollock Francis are essential to the plot. 

Panto and Bart I assume are to be a couple. I doubt Arnold Castaneda really imagined a same sex Montagu/Capulet plot for his fantasyland. And Ken isn't going to become a major character, even though I want him too.

Agam Darshi (who I remember from Sanctuary, of blessed memory,) didn't play Mona. IMDB says Alexia Fast.

[Adira]

Does anyone else think the Cardenas boy killed his own father to stop all the bizarre things from happening??  He reacted pretty strongly to Dirk's mention of the scissors!

[chitowngirl]

For any Orange is the New Black viewers-does the female police officer remind anyone of Pennsatucky?

Edited November 13, 2017 by chitowngirl

[snowwhyte]

Dirk: "This music sounds like robots being tortured by monkeys." Personally I think it sounded like monkeys being tortured by robots.

[ZoqFotPik]

Just rewatched the episode. For those of you wondering, it's 90 days. Bart's prisoner number is QT3.14.

[theatremouse]

I think Panto is just trying to get in good with Bart because he knows she seems to have some powers, since she let herself out of her cage, and she also appears to be dangerous, she constantly mentions how many people she killed. So I think he sees her as a potential weapon/tool.

[Loandbehold]

Watching Bart dance, I realized that, more than ever, she's Helena!

[MarkHB]

On 11/13/2017 at 0:45 PM, theatremouse said:

I think Panto is just trying to get in good with Bart because he knows she seems to have some powers, since she let herself out of her cage, and she also appears to be dangerous, she constantly mentions how many people she killed. So I think he sees her as a potential weapon/tool.

Remember that, along with The Boy, they're supposed to bring (or find) the Ultimate Weapon.  I am so hoping that's Bart.

[RedMal]

Damn, I had completely missed this season. But luckily I had five episodes to binge now.

I love how they can throw any random, stupid idea they come up with and manage it actually to make some kind of ridiculous sense. I adore the show and this second season hasn't been a let down compared to the first. At first I was sceptical since I don't really care about fantasy as a genre or otherly worlds, but it definitely works here.

I love, love, love Fiona Dourif so much. I think she has a nice chemistry with Panto, but I do hope she gets to reunite with Ken soon.

By the way, does anyone else get the feeling that Wendimoor actually exists in the wall painting?

Edited November 15, 2017 by RedMal

[Luckylyn]

I love this show and how the oddness just works.

Bart being such a remorseless killer one minute and the expressing childlike joy the next is so fascinating to watch.   

I loved the scene of them professing how much they mean to each other.   They've all come such a long way and are becoming a family.

For the first time in his life, Dirk has bonded with people and it's made him afraid in a way he has never felt before.  The thing is Dirk's let's do things like real detectives is doomed to fail because the universe will nudge him to where he's supposed to be even if he resists.  I wonder if he'll end up trying to do things alone in an effort to reduce the risk to the others.

I'm so happy over the Rowdy 3 reunion and am looking forward to Todd and Amanda finally being able to talk.  I wonder if Todd and Amanda having the same condition will allow them to communicate across worlds.

Btw, does anyone know the song that was playing when everyone was professing feelings and the Rowdy 3 got back together?

[ZoqFotPik]

Alive by Madden

[Luckylyn]

11 hours ago, ZoqFotPik said:

Alive by Madden

Thank you!

[RedMal]

My biggest complain for this season is that Ken and Bart are way too sidelined. I mean, yeah, Landis is doing his best to incorporate both of them into the story and more so could be forcing it. But as a fan of them and their chemistry, I'm slightly disappointed.

Although that last scene with Panto and Bart could implicate that there's more to come for Bart. Or maybe she's "the boy". Anyway, Arnold was definitely not it, I don't believe it for one second.

Who could've known that John Hannah and Alan Tyduk make such an effective bad guys. And if only we could now get Tyduk and Labine share scenes. Some kind of "Tucker & Dale" reunion.

[talktalk]

Wish Netflix would just release the whole thing outside of US already. Let Americans watch it once per week, we want to watch it on Netflix when we want it!

[Loandbehold]

5 hours ago, RedMal said:

Who could've known that John Hannah and Alan Tyduk make such an effective bad guys.

John Hannah played a good villain on Spartacus, and Alan Tudyk was fantastic as 

Spoiler

Alpha on Dollhouse.

 

5 hours ago, RedMal said:

My biggest complain for this season is that Ken and Bart are way too sidelined.

Don't forget the corgi. A few scenes just isn't enough of that dog.

[Mabinogia]

I'm just glad Ken and Rapunzel are finally out of that damn taxi. But what was up with Ken giving Priest the okay to kill the civilians. He had to know that's what Priest was asking. 

I do miss Bart and Ken's odd little friendship but her and Panto are actually pretty sweet. The Mage's identity crisis because he saw a child's drawing showing him as the always losing bad guy was pretty funny. I've always been a bit fascinated by the idea of Bad Guys in fictional worlds thinking they are the heroes of the story and how they react when they find out they are the bad guys. I mean, that's gotta sting. 

[ZoqFotPik]

4 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

ut what was up with Ken giving Priest the okay to kill the civilians. He had to know that's what Priest was asking. 

I think they are setting him up to be the new head of Blackwing. Depending on how the rest of the season plays out and if the show gets renewed, it could bring him into conflict with Bart in season 3.

I haven't seen Amanda Walsh in much, but man can she do crazy! I love Amanda's relationship with the Rowdys. Her conversation with Martin was my favorite part of the episode.

[Charlesman]

Did anyone else think Dirk was doing a John Oliver impression with the "The case is solved! I found the boy. Good enough for me, *clap clap* He is the boy! Guess what? *snap snap* I'm calling it. The case is over. Mystery solved. Done. Done! Did it!  That's my new thing: Did it!" routine? Seemed totally 'Last Week Tonight' to me.

[Adira]

Well let's hope Arnold Cardenas isn't the boy!!  I'm going back to one of my original speculations that the boy is Farson, who's currently with Amanda.

[ZoqFotPik]

So the symbol on the doors at the beginning of the episode was the one for Moloch. That's the Blackwing subject that was in a coma and that Dirk used to talk to from the first episode. I'm guessing he was the baby that was crying in the "The Infant, Male, Pollock, Francis" and the thing that Arnold said wasn't human. In the second episode, Farah notices height marks on a door frame. There are two sets with only one initialed 'AC', so I think Arnold and Moloch were raised as brothers. Also, in the first episode, they say Moloch was the most powerful subject that was ever brought in and that he suffered a stroke when they transported him back to Blackwing. I wonder if his stroke is what restarted everything.

Edited November 20, 2017 by ZoqFotPik

[talktalk]

On 11/20/2017 at 11:43 AM, ZoqFotPik said:

So the symbol on the doors at the beginning of the episode was the one for Moloch. That's the Blackwing subject that was in a coma and that Dirk used to talk to from the first episode. I'm guessing he was the baby that was crying in the "The Infant, Male, Pollock, Francis" and the thing that Arnold said wasn't human. In the second episode, Farah notices height marks on a door frame. There are two sets with only one initialed 'AC', so I think Arnold and Moloch were raised as brothers. Also, in the first episode, they say Moloch was the most powerful subject that was ever brought in and that he suffered a stroke when they transported him back to Blackwing. I wonder if his stroke is what restarted everything.

Good post. I actually went back and revisited Episode 1, I already forgot about Moloch, now it makes sense. So he is "the boy". 

[RedMal]

Well, this was probably my least favorite episode of the whole series. Other than the stuff with Dirk, it dragged and nothing interesting happened. Well, at least not before the bridge scene.

So ZoqFotPik was apparently right. Wendimoor doesn't exist in the wall painting (like I speculated), but instead it's all happening in Moloch's comatosed mind.

[sjohnson]

The deaths are taking a toll on the humor.  "Blessed are the peacemakers" is not a thing in the holistic universe.

Wakti Wapnasi told us she thinks the Boy (who I agree with above is Moloch, just as Dirk has deduced,) can bring the dead back to life. And Susie Boreton will lose her powers when Moloch goes to his dream retirement. 

I suppose Amanda forgot the last time Todd saw her she was in a cage pleading for help. I don't think she's even hinted at the witchikookoo.  What I don't get is why she doesn't even listen to Todd's claim Wendimoor isn't real. The Man in the Moon, the train?

[Mabinogia]

At this point Wendimoor better be imaginary because yeah, the deaths are not making for a light, fun show. I love the visuals of Wendimoor but the storyline is boring. 

Kudos to those of you who pegged Coma guy as the Boy. 

The chalk drawing in Wendimoor made me wonder for just a moment if our world is the made up one. Though I have no idea how they would pull that off. 

I was enjoying this season until about this episode. I don't hate it, but this was the first ep where I really felt this season wasn't nearly as good as the first. I think because of all the war stuff. That's just not what I watch this show for. I can watch masses of people being gunned down by turning on the news. As Amanda said, this is supposed to be a fairytale. It's supposed to be crazy and whimsical, not a bloodbath. 

I'm also sick of Susan. 

[mammaM]

20 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

 

I'm also sick of Susan. 

You and me both. 

[Cosmic Muffin]

I'm in this mainly for Bart, and for Bart and Ken together, and I'm not liking the fairy tale stuff or the feuding families led by stubborn jerks who will not listen.  Actually, no one is listening to anyone these last few episodes, I find impassioned speeches annoying. So, I'm not really enjoying this season that much. I hope they get a 3rd season and that it's an improvement over this. When Dirk said he's usually several steps ahead of whatever is going on, and he's felt like he's three steps behind I felt like that's a flaw this season. I do like the character that captured Dirk, and now I want to name something Bibbit.

[bara007]

I dont like this season how "disconnected" they all are (pun intended:))...

The scenes with Amanda (and her brother) this episode were absolutely awful. I was hoping that all the danger, meeting in a foreign land, Amanda seeing Todd in her vision and calling him for help - all of this will bring the siblings together for a short while. Forgetting about the previous their troubles - they would remember they are family after all.... Seems like that is not happening now!

And again the point throughout the whole season - Todd is looking for his sister - now fell flat. As if Todd was looking to make himself whole again (which makes sense)... and now nothing happened. And for this I also feel, Todd being so overwhelmed, his whole relationship with Dirk was sacrificied. There is no more camaradarie between them anymore, at least I dont feel it - like it had to move away to make room for "more important things".

And back to Amanda - why does she think she has to now "suddenly" save everyone, in land where she doesn't even know where she is, and how is she got there.... I don't know, in the sense of the storytelling that is just so....

And then how she dismissed that this is all a plain dream (which it is), that was just plain weird!

As was when she asked about Dirk at the bridge (and didnt care about seeing Todd at all), and then forgot about Dirk altogether.  Without even thinking about him in the next scene, where is he, and if he is safe - she just sends Todd away like that, never wants to see him again.... Now I as a viewer don't care if I will be seeing her again! :(

Edited November 27, 2017 by bara007

[sjohnson]

I think Todd running around is exactly how he found the Cardenas house. And how he did find Amanda. Strategies that work get repeated. Todd is a true believer in the holistic universe. The question is, why does the holistic universe seem to believe in him back? He's not Dirk Gently/Icarus. 

Amanda is so committed to Wendimoor because, superpowers! Earth is being sick with pararibulitis. 

That said, I can only attribute her hostility to Todd at the bridge to lingering resentment. When she was in a cage, she forgot, but she's hot shit now, so that resurfaces. Fortunately for me, I don't require characters to be perfect. 

I'm not sure how I feel about the prospect of everybody returning from the dead, except...Hobbs! Yay!

Edited November 27, 2017 by sjohnson

[Mabinogia]

7 hours ago, bara007 said:

I was hoping that all the danger, meeting in a foreign land, Amanda seeing Todd in her vision and calling him for help - all of this will bring the siblings together for a short while. Forgetting about the previous their troubles - they would remember they are family after all.... Seems like that is not happening now!

That was my hope as well. I was so excited they were finally reunited and it just...fizzled.

 

23 minutes ago, sjohnson said:

Amanda is so committed to Wendimoor because, superpowers! Earth is being sick with pararibulitis. 

Yep. Just like Susan she's being corrupted by power, only her corruption is focused on saving people.

5 hours ago, nosleepforme said:

Where were the Rowdy Three in this episode?

Last ep, or before, Amanda sent them off to deal with the cube headed soldiers. They giddily ran off and we haven't seen them since. We can assume they are still on that mission and will return when needed I guess.

[sjohnson]

Well, yes, I suppose you could call wanting to save people (and be a big hero instead of a victim of a mysterious malady) corruption. But I tend to think being kind of dismissive of Todd was a bit more in that line. Not that staying mad at him for lying wouldn't be kind of understandable, albeit regrettable. 

[TresGatos]

On 11/19/2017 at 4:02 PM, Loandbehold said:

Don't forget the corgi. A few scenes just isn't enough of that dog.

And the kitten shark! I still haven't gotten over them just leaving the kitten shark alone in the forest to fend for itself (and any unsuspecting hikers that may cross its path!)

[Chyromaniac]

I don’t know that the tone of this episode was out of place for the series overall - there have been plenty of “dark” moments, particularly last season. However, something did seem off about it.  It feels like there are so many loose storylines in the real world - Hobbs, Tina, Farrah, Ken, Priest, Friedkin, Panto, etc - that focusing an entire week in Wendimore felt like a mistake. Frankly, I just care more about the Bergsberg crew. Hopefully we can get back there next episode.

[sjohnson]

Bob before he had his mind blasted by Susie didn't seem to have much ability to help. It was one thing for Hobbs to not have been blasted but put into a quarry. But it's a different kind of far fetched to think Bob the Blob would know. Was he primed to mislead Farah and Tina into a trap? But why would the Mage care about them, rather than Panto?

Bart may be Chekhov's gun.

[RedMal]

"I don't understand anything that's happening... And I love it!"

Execution with a fucking scissors :D How did Dirk carry them holding the blade and not get hurt?

The episode surely was better than last week, it evens out nicely to have both worlds. Staying only in Wendimoor isn't working.

Has it been told how and why are the people in Wendimoor aware of Dirk? If it has, I've forgotten all about it.

[AnimeMania]

1 hour ago, RedMal said:

Has it been told how and why are the people in Wendimoor aware of Dirk? If it has, I've forgotten all about it.

Dirk is mentioned in an ancient prophecy regarding saving their land from the evil mage.

[RedMal]

2 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Dirk is mentioned in an ancient prophecy regarding saving their land from the evil mage.

Oh, okay. Thanks. But still, how? The boy has been in coma for decades. Or is he able to collect things happening around him and that's how he heard about Dirk and inserted him into Wendimoor?

[notcreative enough]

5 hours ago, RedMal said:

Oh, okay. Thanks. But still, how? The boy has been in coma for decades. Or is he able to collect things happening around him and that's how he heard about Dirk and inserted him into Wendimoor?

Didn't Dirk talk to Morloch while in the coma and said that for a long time he was Dirk's only friend. So maybe be added him into a prophecy some how. Maybe the people just believe that the prophecy is ancient because they don't know where it came for. But Morloch could have known about there someday being a Dirk out there. 

I'm loving "did it" and really hope it sticks.