S01.E04: The Art of War

[Drogo]

Stone works to uncover information about the crime.

[Primetimer]

And other not-quite-burning questions from the most recent not-nearly-fast-moving-enough episode.

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[Drogo]

Freddy comin', Charlene's Uncle.

[The Hound Lives]

I am SO thankful we finally got to hear the story from Naz. We know it but he hasn't been able to really speak it out loud. There isn't a "Primal Fear" twist in there, he really has no idea what happened. 
Another episode I adored. I loved that we saw movement in the investigation and love that John is still in the thick. Totally bummed me out that everyone championed him taking the deal, though I get it. 
Interesting that John caught an argument between Step-Dad and mystery man. Will be interested to see if this is actually something or if it will be a red herring. I think Step-Dad is kind of an easy target for doubt, so if it does play into anything, I assume it will be something he doesn't have knowledge of. 

I still don't get what Freddy wants? A tutor? The whole casting in the prison is so good. 
I know some people mentioned wanting more of the actual crime investigation and less prison stuff but I am loving the balance. The change in Naz is becoming more blatant. It breaks my heart and also kind of thrills me from a character perspective. 

A bit OT but as much as I love Glenna Headly, I can't help but fan-cast Kim Cattrall in the role of Allison Crowe. Obviously too late for that but something about the character just feels Cattrall would've been so good. 

[Dogberry]

15 minutes ago, Drogo said:

Freddy comin', Charlene's Uncle.

Maybe yes, and maybe no?  I'm thinking Charlene's Uncle could be the hounds driving the prey to Freddy the hunter.  Maybe Freddy will slip him some veal if Naz asks for protection.

[Drogo]

"Let me do all the talking... unless the Judge asks how you plead."

"Don't look anyone in the eye... unless the Judge is speaking to you. "

For a high profile attorney, Allison forgot some important (bolded) courtroom advice.

[AuntiePam]

Charlene's Uncle isn't what he seems to be.  Trying to convince Naz to take the plea deal -- he's doing it on behalf of someone from the prosecutor's office.  When Naz asked for his niece's name and he said he couldn't bring himself to say it -- that was so phony.  And the picture he showed?  Why would he have a crime scene photo?  He may have been given some kind of deal -- time off his sentence.  Why else would he be angry enough at Naz to throw that hot oil on him?  It's no skin off his ass if Naz gets life.

So dishonest of Crowe not to tell Naz that Man 1 would be hard to get, after she had already gotten it. 

Is this the first time she's heard Naz's version of what happened?  Do we know? 

Did Chandra give Crowe the file on Andrea? 

[The Hound Lives]

12 minutes ago, AuntiePam said:

Charlene's Uncle isn't what he seems to be.  Trying to convince Naz to take the plea deal -- he's doing it on behalf of someone from the prosecutor's office.  When Naz asked for his niece's name and he said he couldn't bring himself to say it -- that was so phony.  And the picture he showed?  Why would he have a crime scene photo?  He may have been given some kind of deal -- time off his sentence.  Why else would he be angry enough at Naz to throw that hot oil on him?  It's no skin off his ass if Naz gets life.

So dishonest of Crowe not to tell Naz that Man 1 would be hard to get, after she had already gotten it. 

Is this the first time she's heard Naz's version of what happened?  Do we know? 

Did Chandra give Crowe the file on Andrea? 

I don't think the Uncle got a prompt from the Prosecutor, though I guess anything is possible. 
I agree with what Dogberry said, maybe it was another prod from Freddy. Or maybe it was just a solo action considering what he is in for (trying to kill the man who raped/killed his niece). But it's still not clear to me, at all really, what Freddy wants? 
Seriously...what could Naz possibly do for him? He doesn't come from money or connections? He isn't a "known" in the community (well, now he is). What on the outside, could he possibly do for Freddy's benefit? He could do even less on the inside...so I am trying to wrap my brain around what this "protection" could cost. 

I don't think Chandra gave Allison the file but I think she will do some independent digging, along with Stone. I expect them to "team up" in a sense. 

[Princess Sparkle]

11 hours ago, The Hound Lives said:

Another episode I adored. I loved that we saw movement in the investigation and love that John is still in the thick. Totally bummed me out that everyone championed him taking the deal, though I get it. 

 

 

What I thought was interesting (and quite telling) was that one of Allison's major selling points to Naz's parents last week was that she was going to fight for him, and told them that Stone would only want to take a deal. And then one of the first things she does this week is negotiate a deal.  I haven't seen the actress in anything else, but quite frankly, I was thrilled when Naz told her to quit.

For those with better legal knowledge than me - can Naz's statement at the aborted plea hearing be used against him at trial?  While I know he told A LOT to the detective, he basically gave up his account of the entire night in court, which he normally wouldn't have to do unless he was testifying.  I feel like that's going to come back to bite him.  

So, was Charlene's uncle buddying up to Naz the whole time just to throw the baby oil/boiling water combo at him to "avenge" his niece in his own mind, or did something in him finally snap after he heard Naz say he didn't kill Andrea?  I didn't quite follow if that was a long con on his part, or if it was a spur of the moment thing.  I briefly considered that it was all a setup orchestrated by Freddy in order to get Naz to come to him for a favor, since Charlene's uncle did a pretty good job of telegraphing his throw so that Naz had enough time to stick his arm in front of his face, but then I decided to take off my tin foil hat.

I'm currently rewatching The Sopranos, so I liked the brief shots we got of Aida Tuturro and Benny Fazio (I cannot think of his name in real life).  Benny Fazio looked ROUGH though, and so did Fisher Stevens for that matter. 

Edited August 1, 2016 by Princess Sparkle
typo & missing words make for one confusing sentence

[Mackey]

Maybe Uncle Charlene has anger management issues. Too not-twisty?

[sjohnson]

Having the Criminal Justice series this is based on makes this unwatchable for me. Partly it is HBO pomposity, partly it is mystifying choices about changing what doesn't need changed while leaving flaws in the original. Number one mystifying change for me was making the lead five years older and smarter but just plain passive. Ben Whishaw's character was a weepy ninny, which made his self incriminating actions believable. Number one mystifying non-change was the all powerful Michael William's (David Harewood in the English series,) fixation on Riz Ahmed.

[AuntiePam]

From what we've seen so far, I don't think Freddy wants anything from Naz except what he said -- a friend who has read a book, a relief from the boredom, and -- this he didn't say but I choose to believe it -- the "human" feeling Freddy can get from protecting Naz.  There's not much that happens in prison to make someone feel that they're still human.

That said, I think Naz should have re-read Call of the Wild.  He'll have a different viewpoint now.

Charlene's Uncle?  Everybody in prison lies about their crimes.  He may have killed and raped Charlene and has that crime scene photo because he took it with his own damn camera.  (Yeah, okay, that's way too twisty for Richard Price.)

[Knuckles]

The whole Charlene's uncle thing threw me...exactly why should a con take Naz under his wing and walk him thru the rules of jailhouse survival?  His previous neighbor threw him a few tips, but walked when he found out what Naz had been accused of...and the other prisoners already burned his mattress, so the guy is marked. At some point, Naz should wise up and realize that "Trust No One" should now be his motto. Agree that Charlene's uncle is driving Naz to Freddy, and that the photo of Charlene is from Freddy as well. Throwing the boiling oil/water at Naz was the uncle proving to the other cons that he is no friend to Naz, I guess.

So Crowe dumped the Khans when Naz wouldn't take the deal...who didn't see that coming. I was just surprised that she didn't milk it a little longer for PR exposure, but I guess she got enough of what she wanted. Nice look on their faces when they realized they had been used. Even Stone seems to think that the case is a loser...Naz may not have done it, but defending him on a non-existent budget is going to take a miracle. 

Everybody wants him to take the deal...and if he had, I'm guessing that Freddy would now own him for the next 12-15 years.

[bagatelle]

Charlene's uncle having the crime scene photo made me think he wasn't an uncle at all, but the real killer and that he took the photo himself.

His whole story didn't make sense about doing what he did for the assumed  niece.

Naz is even walking differently now. The guy is learning quickly.

[Superpole2000]

Another good but not great episode. I still like it enough, but I feel it is meandering through an interesting story with too many tedious and predictable scenes. Every Freddie scene is about twice as long as it needs to be, and the eczema scenes are becoming as annoying as eczema itself. Scenes like that are fine if there are also some wow moments, but there really haven't been many of those on display. Even Naz's injuries weren't so much surprising as they were predictable plot devices to push him toward Freddie. And the not-guilty plea was telegraphed from a mile away.

[Noirprncess]

Well Naz is clearly not the sheltered naive boy that entered the prison system.

I think Charlene's uncle served essentially the same purpose as Sticky Fingerz (the actor playing his first bunk mate), the "this is how you do it guy".    Guys will try to befriend you and feel you out to see what they can get out of you, especially someone that seems super green like Naz.  But I think Uncle got offended when he realized that Naz wasn't trying to justify his actions or use the "I got railroaded" excuse.  Naz sincerely believes in his innocence and Uncle, who'd already said he had flash anger, got mad and did exactly what he warned Naz about.

I still screamed though.

Was I the only one cracking up at the Stone sex scene?. Especially when SHE went to the bathroom and found the tube of Itch-X.  The look of disgust on her face had me rolling.  

I still think Freddy sees himself in Naz and befriends him on that basis.  Unfortunately, I think Naz gets that he will incur a debt to be determined later.  I haven't read "The Other Side of Midnight" in years so I had to look up the synopsis.  So the popular choices are "Art of War" - mentally preparing yourself against all enemies or foe vs "The Other Side of Midnight" - a love novel? Hmmm

Allison turned into an even bigger snake than I gave her credit for. Like taking credit for "negotiating" a lighter sentence.  Papa realized the gravity of his error in selecting her when she bluntly spoke to him about not interrupting her.  It's clear everyone is a prop in her world.  I just don't understand why Chandra agreed to act like an intern around her when she is at least a junior associate.  

[lucindabelle]

1 hour ago, bagatelle said:

Charlene's uncle having the crime scene photo made me think he wasn't an uncle at all, but the real killer and that he took the photo himself.

His whole story didn't make sense about doing what he did for the assumed  niece.

Naz is even walking differently now. The guy is learning quickly.

My theory too. Calvin is the killer.

unpopular opinion but I don't mind tshe eczema stuff at all. I have a chronic condition and on TV or movies you never see someone DEALING with an ongoing issue. You'd think one appointment and its handled. Well in real life not so much,

 

if if that cat doesn't get saved im going to throw down. Save the cat.

[numbnut]

3 hours ago, AuntiePam said:

Charlene's Uncle isn't what he seems to be.  Trying to convince Naz to take the plea deal -- he's doing it on behalf of someone from the prosecutor's office.  When Naz asked for his niece's name and he said he couldn't bring himself to say it -- that was so phony.  And the picture he showed?  Why would he have a crime scene photo?  He may have been given some kind of deal -- time off his sentence.  Why else would he be angry enough at Naz to throw that hot oil on him?  It's no skin off his ass if Naz gets life.

I could buy this, especially after seeing his face drop when Naz decides to tell Freddy, but I'm not sure if Box is that underhanded.

3 hours ago, Princess Sparkle said:

I haven't seen the actress in anything else, but quite frankly, I was thrilled when Naz told her to quit.

She was big in the 80s, and so good in Mortal Thoughts with Demi Moore.

A few questions: What did Stone do in the courtroom to get chided by the DA? (I think she said "That was uncalled for.") Why would Crowe quit then take the case using her associate? What type of place was that where Stone copied the victim's files? Was it a rehab?

Edited August 1, 2016 by numbnut

[scrb]

Does it count as a win to get a plea deal?  Crowe is a camera whore so what is she going to do, write a book and do a book tour and go on TV talk shows to say she saved Khan's life because the odds were against acquittal?

Doesn't make sense.

Then again, it never made sense that a big time law firm would try a big case pro bono.

[loki567]

29 minutes ago, scrb said:

Does it count as a win to get a plea deal?  Crowe is a camera whore so what is she going to do, write a book and do a book tour and go on TV talk shows to say she saved Khan's life because the odds were against acquittal?

Doesn't make sense.

Then again, it never made sense that a big time law firm would try a big case pro bono.

Seems like it was a pretty good deal. Less than fifteen years for what looks like an open-and-shut murder case. Everybody from the random guy in the bar to Detective Box thought it was too good for Naz. 

I assume Crowe would have gotten exactly what she wanted if Naz had taken the plea. Some camera time and almost zero effort to muscle the DA's office into a friendly deal for her client. Once she realized she had to go to trial, suddenly it wasn't pro bono anymore. 

[Mackey]

Wasn't the DA  just telling Stone that what Crowe did was stinky? (Making fun of the previous legal help that Naz had) DA was expressing empathy?

I've been googling and googling and I can't find any description of the baby oil/hot water torture.  That seems odd. Or I'm a bad googler.

Edited August 1, 2016 by Mackey

[Noirprncess]

2 hours ago, numbnut said:

I could buy this, especially after seeing his face drop when Naz decides to tell Freddy, but I'm not sure if Box is that underhanded.

She was big in the 80s, and so good in Mortal Thoughts with Demi Moore.

A few questions: What did Stone do in the courtroom to get chided by the DA? (I think she said "That was uncalled for.") Why would Crowe quit then take the case using her associate? What type of place was that where Stone copied the victim's files? Was it a rehab?

Crowe said sarcastically to the judge, "Well, he (Naz) was represented by John Stone"..  implying that John was incompetent as a lawyer.  The judge told her to not do that in his court and the DA said to John in response, "That was uncalled for (what Allison Crowe said)"

I think Allison took the case as a way to build her profile in front of the news cameras thinking that she was just going to "work" out a plea deal.   Remember she hasn't spoken to Naz until just before going to court.  But, death penalty and murder one cases are notoriously expensive to prosecute.  As a pro bono, she would have to foot the costs of ALL research, time spent in preparation, monies spent for investigators, etc.  She wasn't about to spent money on a case that she was surely going to lose.   Notice how quickly she not only dumped the case in Chandra's lap but said you will need to pay too.

 

The files came from a rehab place that was just in walking distance of the stores behind the victim's face in the selfie.  

[Noirprncess]

2 hours ago, Mackey said:

Wasn't the DA  just telling Stone that what Crowe did was stinky? (Making fun of the previous legal help that Naz had) DA was expressing empathy?

I've been googling and googling and I can't find any description of the baby oil/hot water torture.  That seems odd. Or I'm a bad googler.

 Lol that's not real.  Otherwise, just think how many of us have taken baths containing hot water and baby oil unscathed.

Ironically, I read that melting down chocolate bars is one tactic prisoners take to throw on others which does stick to the skin like napalm.  You will never look at chocolate bars the same again now, right?

[Jodithgrace]

http://sanilaccountynews.mihomepaper.com/news/2015-09-16/Court_News/Prisoners_assaulted_with_boiling_water_baby_oil.html

I did a google search on "boiling water and baby oil used as a weapon," and got the above article. So it is a thing.

Interesting episode. It is slow moving, but involving. Even the eczema has it place. I wonder if the prostitute Stone brought home didn't know about his eczema, since he was keeping himself pretty well covered and was wearing socks, but thought the the itch cream in his medicine cabinet was for some kind of STD? But she did see him in court, I guess, and those feet are hard to miss. 

[teddysmom]

The cat looks just like my cat and I am quite offended at them referring to it as ugly. I'm just thankful she was outside doing her thing and didn't have to hear those remarks.

[Drogo]

"The Art of War" is one of the greatest books you can read, but I was surprised that the two most popular books weren't the Bible and the Quran. 

FWIW, "The Other Side of Midnight"

Spoiler

ends with a supposed "good deal" guilty-plea... that ends up being a trick because the prosecution's case was weak, and results in the main characters' execution... so it

 was an interesting choice for Freddy to gift to Naz with the Post-it advice to "Take the deal." Maybe it was a test to see if Naz would read it and realize what Freddy was really advising?

[guilfoyleatpp]

I loved seeing Aida Turturro in this episode. Loved it.

I'm a little confused about why Allison Crowe would make such a big show of her abilities to defend him and then cut and run at the first opportunity. Is she supposed to be impetuous? Is this just a plot device to push Naz into the "arms" of Chandra and/or Stone? Did she just give up after she couldn't get bail for him? None of her actions read to me like someone who plots their actions very well.

What did Naz's father want to say to the press when Crowe was talking to them?

Questions, questions, questions.

On a side note, I love the actress who plays Naz's mother. She looks like how I wish I looked. She's so elegant, even in her grief.

[bagatelle]

Is Stone going to keep calling the shelter until he finds out the cat is not there any more. I wish he'd just find a home for it.

So Stone goes to different doctors, who are all disapproving of the previous medical advise and very confident in their own advise, which probably won't work either.

[izabella]

12 hours ago, AuntiePam said:

Did Chandra give Crowe the file on Andrea? 

12 hours ago, The Hound Lives said:

I don't think Chandra gave Allison the file but I think she will do some independent digging, along with Stone. I expect them to "team up" in a sense. 

 

5 hours ago, Noirprncess said:

The files came from a rehab place that was just in walking distance of the stores behind the victim's face in the selfie.  

If someone could help explain the files Stone gave to Chandra, I would be most grateful.  I understand they are of people who were in that rehab, but how does it connect to the case?  And now that Allison quit and Naz's parents don't have money to pay for Chandra to handle the trial, doesn't that mean that nothing will happen with the files since they weren't obtained legally, so can't be used?  And, even if they could, how could they be used to help Naz?

[The Hound Lives]

7 minutes ago, izabella said:

 

If someone could help explain the files Stone gave to Chandra, I would be most grateful.  I understand they are of people who were in that rehab, but how does it connect to the case?  And now that Allison quit and Naz's parents don't have money to pay for Chandra to handle the trial, doesn't that mean that nothing will happen with the files since they weren't obtained legally, so can't be used?  And, even if they could, how could they be used to help Naz?

The files where of Andrea's stay at the rehab specifically. I am not sure if the contents of the files will help Naz but I think Stone did some digging because the police/prosecutor are so focused on one suspect, they aren't looking into any other possibilities. 
He is trying to dig into her background, like the police SHOULD be doing to eliminate suspects. 
They might not have been obtained legally but any information from them, Chandra/Stone can pursue without revealing their sources. 

[Noirprncess]

3 minutes ago, izabella said:

 

If someone could help explain the files Stone gave to Chandra, I would be most grateful.  I understand they are of people who were in that rehab, but how does it connect to the case?  And now that Allison quit and Naz's parents don't have money to pay for Chandra to handle the trial, doesn't that mean that nothing will happen with the files since they weren't obtained legally, so can't be used?  And, even if they could, how could they be used to help Naz?

Stone obtained the file by investigating the victim simply because the police have only focused on Naz without considering how or why his bizarre story has a few plausible questions over whether he committed the crimes or not.

But the file is her intake file and other information on her multiple visits to that particular rehab.  I don't think they can legally use a pilfered record in court BUT they use it to develop another potential suspect from the victim circle of friends or previous habits.  It also offers insight into the victim's personality.

I'm sure Chandra's billable hourly price is significantly smaller than Allison Crowe.  But, the family will likely find her pay scale via monthly payments will eventually cost significantly more than John Stone's flat fee.

[clb1016]

51 minutes ago, izabella said:

If someone could help explain the files Stone gave to Chandra, I would be most grateful.  I understand they are of people who were in that rehab, but how does it connect to the case?  And now that Allison quit and Naz's parents don't have money to pay for Chandra to handle the trial, doesn't that mean that nothing will happen with the files since they weren't obtained legally, so can't be used?  And, even if they could, how could they be used to help Naz?

They were Andrea's file from rehab and even though they can't be used at trial because they were obtained without a warrant, they can be useful to whoever (presumably Stone, possibly assisted by Chandra) is representing Naz.  If Andrea was honest during rehab, there might be info re: her relationships with friends, lovers, dealers, etc., as well as her habits like bringing home strangers or handing out her housekeys.

Edited August 1, 2016 by clb1016

[Drogo]

4 minutes ago, izabella said:

And now that Allison quit and Naz's parents don't have money to pay for Chandra to handle the trial, doesn't that mean that nothing will happen with the files since they weren't obtained legally, so can't be used?  And, even if they could, how could they be used to help Naz?

These were photos of the files, so the original files are still at the Invictus House.  Chandra (or Stone, or whoever Naz's attorney will be going forward) might be able to use that selfie location (and a "These were dropped at my office!" fib?) to get a subpeona for the files and obtain copies legally. 

The goal here is to paint Andrea as a troubled girl with a troubled past who affiliated with a lot of troubled people, and introduce a reasonable doubt that Naz was the only person who could have been in the house that night. 

[teddysmom]

Quote

 I was surprised that the two most popular books weren't the Bible and the Quran. 

I said those two books when Freddy asked the question.

I have an Art of War quote printed out and hanging on the board about my desk "If you wait by the river long enough, the bodies of your enemies will float by". 

[izabella]

Thank you, everyone, for explaining the files to me! 

Last note on the files, I laughed when Stone added an upcharge to the fee for getting the files - that guy charged him $350 and he told Chandra it would be $500 for him to hand them over.

[Noirprncess]

I thought about WHY they showed Allison's other case before she pursued Naz.  She needed to keep her name in the press for BOTH cases but mainly for her first case.  A quick way to do that is to latch onto a media driven case like Naz's.  Her plan was always to railroad Naz into taking a plea deal, which was quick work for her and piggyback media attention to her other case at the same time.  Every time they mention her being Naz's lawyer, they would likely mention or discuss her other big cases.

[Mackey]

I am a bad googler, Jodithgrace. 

[iMonrey]

I'm starting to lose interest. The pilot was so compelling but I'm not really interested in prison life. Been there, done that (via TV, not personal experience). 

I really don't understand why this high-powered attorney would take the case just to plead out, and I see I'm not alone in that. What was the significance of the tabloid paper with the Sheik on the cover? I thought maybe Crowe lost interest in Naz because a more high-profile case came along.

This thing with the cat is about as subtle as an anvil. Even though he's no longer Naz's attorney, Stone cares enough to keep checking up on him. Just like the cat - get it? Get it?? Get it?

I also feel like this eczema thing is a character "quirk" they're beating us over the head with. Enough of that. I agreed with the recapper on this one. There are only four more episodes left, and at this point I can't foresee any kind of satisfying resolution. Surely they won't have time to take this to trial unless they skip over several months or a year. 

[Princess Sparkle]

22 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I really don't understand why this high-powered attorney would take the case just to plead out, and I see I'm not alone in that. What was the significance of the tabloid paper with the Sheik on the cover? I thought maybe Crowe lost interest in Naz because a more high-profile case came along.

 

The headline said the sheikh man was a cabbie murdered in retaliation, so I thought that was why the DA quickly acquiesced to manslaughter with Crowe - she wanted the case to settle so that there wouldn't be any more "retaliation killings" and the violence wouldn't continue to escalate. 

[clb1016]

And thank you HBO for reminding us that women--free-spirited, shameless souls--remain unclad from head to toe during and post sexual activity, while men--modest, decorous, easily embarrassed creatures--are always at least partially clad, the better to hide their precious genitalia.  

[meep.meep]

Wait!  I thought HBO was responsible for reminding us that the free-spirited shameless women of NYC always wore a bra while having sex.  

The wonder was that Turturro didn't keep his trenchcoat on.

At least *someone* is investigating the crime.  The scene was filled with drugs.  The police who have trashed the Khan's home, know that there was no drug paraphernalia there.  They also know from talking with the step-father, that the victim was no angel.  

[Gobi]

45 minutes ago, clb1016 said:

And thank you HBO for reminding us that women--free-spirited, shameless souls--remain unclad from head to toe during and post sexual activity, while men--modest, decorous, easily embarrassed creatures--are always at least partially clad, the better to hide their precious genitalia.  

I think HBO gets a pass in this instance, as Stone was trying to hide his eczema from his partner.

[clb1016]

His eczema is on his feet, and it seems everyone who knows him knows this.  That's why the woman's consternation at seeing his anti-itch cream struck me as a false note.

[Gobi]

When his shirt was lifted, you could see eczema on his back, also. Plus  it was on his legs, too.

[dirtydi]

I saw a woman at Kohls with eczema on her feet, the other day.  I immediately thought of Stone.  Amazing how television gets under your skin.

I thought it was horrible what Alison said in the courtroom and was glad the DA and the judge defended him.  They seem to have, at least, a little respect for him.

I also think, like others here, that the prisoner killed his own niece.  Or at least, she was 4 months pregnant with his baby. The jails scenes have me glued to the tv, but I also scared about what will happen next.  That beat down was brutal.

[Gobi]

By the way, a lawyer having sex with a client is highly unethical, and could get the  lawyer disbarred. And if, as was implied here, the sex was payment for legal services, would definitely get Stone disbarred if anyone found out about  it.

[The Hound Lives]

2 hours ago, meep.meep said:

Wait!  I thought HBO was responsible for reminding us that the free-spirited shameless women of NYC always wore a bra while having sex.  

Carrie Bradshaw! I don't know why but it always bugged the hell out of me during a sex scene to see her bra on. I don't need to see the tits. I don't care about the tits but you can easily cover them with a sheet if the actress doesn't want to show them. The sex is just so hot that she can't be bothered to get naked? It is just strange. 

As for John's eczema, you can see it on his neck also during the courtroom scene. I think it's spreading from stress. I know it's annoying to some, the focus on it, but I am kind of invested in its treatment, as much as the treatment of Naz. lol

Someone up thread mentioned the way Naz carries himself has changed. Totally got that vibe after he got treatment for the burn and was walking back to his bed and looked at Charlene's Uncle (CU...I guess we can call him now?). His stance was defiant. He knows he is screwed unless he does something. Maybe he made a deal with the devil but it could be an instance of better the devil you know?

[clb1016]

2 minutes ago, The Hound Lives said:

Carrie Bradshaw! I don't know why but it always bugged the hell out of me during a sex scene to see her bra on. I don't need to see the tits. I don't care about the tits but you can easily cover them with a sheet if the actress doesn't want to show them. The sex is just so hot that she can't be bothered to get naked? It is just strange. 

Just to be clear, I have no desire to see John Turturro naked (with or without fake eczema).  It's the double standard that bothers me.  On network and basic cable, everyone is covered up.

[Negritude]

8 hours ago, guilfoyleatpp said:

I loved seeing Aida Turturro in this episode. Loved it.

I'm a little confused about why Allison Crowe would make such a big show of her abilities to defend him and then cut and run at the first opportunity. Is she supposed to be impetuous? Is this just a plot device to push Naz into the "arms" of Chandra and/or Stone? Did she just give up after she couldn't get bail for him? None of her actions read to me like someone who plots their actions very well.

 

She's the cousin of John and Nicholas (who also appears in the show) and I always get a kick out of seeing people within acting families turn up in the same projects. If I was in the industry and had relatives who were also, I would totally hook them up with gigs (and want to be hooked up) if it was in my power to do so.

John Turturro is a pretty prominent actor, so yeah when Naz dropped Stone for Alison Crowe, I didn't expect that to last, but then again in this day and age with name actors being killed off in shows left and right, there's no telling.

[Ellaria]

1 hour ago, The Hound Lives said:

Someone up thread mentioned the way Naz carries himself has changed. Totally got that vibe after he got treatment for the burn and was walking back to his bed and looked at Charlene's Uncle (CU...I guess we can call him now?). His stance was defiant. He knows he is screwed unless he does something. Maybe he made a deal with the devil but it could be an instance of better the devil you know?

Certainly possible that this is a "devil you know" situation...

I'm glad to see that Naz is finally taking control of his destiny, as best he can. Of course, the argument can be made that accepting Freddy's help and rejecting the plea deal may not have been the smartest choices but they were his choices and that's a step forward.

Crowe showed her true intentions a bit quicker than I expected. And I loved Chandra's advice to Naz. Whatever the outcome, someone is listening to him. I'm interested to see if - and how - Chandra remains involved in this case. I'd love to see her and Stone working to clear Naz but I don't see a practical way to make that happen. One way or another, his parents have to face legal fees.

I'm impatient to get some closure on the identification of the murder weapon (I'm nearly positive that it wasn't the lime knife), answers to the question about the lack of blood on Naz's body and further investigation of the shady characters that Naz/Andrea encountered that night. Yes, I know that this show isn't a "murder mystery" but I would like less time spent on eczema and more time spent on the actual murder. And I don't know exactly how they will get there: will it happen in the trial? will something/someone cause Box to actually continue the investigation?

8 hours ago, guilfoyleatpp said:

On a side note, I love the actress who plays Naz's mother... She's so elegant, even in her grief.

I agree. Elegant is a perfect way to describe her.