Pool and Open Water Swimming: Do Not Swallow the Water

[selkie]

26 minutes ago, blackwing said:

 

I'm sorry to hear that he had depression and suicidal thoughts, but that doesn't give him a pass on his drunk driving.  I find it interesting that I haven't heard much in the media about his six-month suspension by USA Swimming for his drunk driving.  Drunk driving.  An act which could have seriously hurt or killed others.  Yet every time Sun Yang or Yulia Efimova step foot on the pool deck, there's Rowdy and Dan talking about secret suspensions and doping ad nauseum.

 

There were consequences to his actions (though not jail time) including rehab and getting kicked off the 2015 world championships team for violating the USAS code of conduct that national team members must sign, and IIRC a suspension from USAS for several months.

FINA was not happy about the team purge because they had apparently promised the Russian oil oligarchs bankrolling Kazan 2015 (and probably Putin himself) that they would be getting the big Phelps comeback on Russian soil, and bizarrely offered Phelps the chance to compete as an independent athlete at the world championships. Phelps, who does seem to want to help grow USA Swimming, laughed off the offer as a joke.

[KenyaJ]

10 minutes ago, selkie said:

There were consequences to his actions (though not jail time) including rehab and getting kicked off the 2015 world championships team for violating the USAS code of conduct that national team members must sign, and IIRC a suspension from USAS for several months.

I saw an interview with him the other day where he mentioned he was watching football with some of the other patients in rehab when the news crawl at the bottom of the screen announced his suspension and he turned to the others and sheepishly said, "Yeah, that's me." He said that was a turning point of sorts, after which he felt comfortable opening up to the other rehab patients and discussing the problems that led to his substance abuse. 

On another note, I'm so thrilled that with the 4x100 free victory last night, Anthony Ervin has another gold medal at age 35. That's incredible. He swam a fantastic anchor leg in the prelims.

[MyAimIsTrue]

44 minutes ago, KenyaJ said:

I can't help but love Rowdy and his enthusiasm. For me, he's like the Andres Cantor of swimming. They both crack me up.

Funny, over the weekend I was thinking he was like Gus Johnson with college basketball but Andres Cantor is a great comparison as well.

[KenyaJ]

Oh man, Gus Johnson is probably an even better comparison. LOL! 

[MyAimIsTrue]

I love me some Gus!

[galaxygirl76]

The Dutch swimming team continues to suck major ass. Wow.

[briochetwist]

57 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

From what I've read, there's been major concerns about Bob Bowman's training methods. Yes he produced Michael Phelps but other swimmers who trained with him burned out quick. From what I understand, Michael was basically isolated from peers, school, any semblance of "normal life" for most of his adolescence and going into adult life. After London he basically had no idea what to do. He has no life skills, barely any education, and making appearances isn't a life. Not a surprise he spiraled into depression and substance abuse. I don't agree that 19 gold medals is enough to justify an adult who has no other skills besides swimming.

Doesn't Michael Phelps also have ADHD? Depression and substance abuse unfortunately happen if your ADHD isn't managed well.

[Growsonwalls]

1 minute ago, briochetwist said:

Doesn't Michael Phelps also have ADHD? Depression and substance abuse unfortunately happen if your ADHD isn't managed well.

Yes ADHD and he had behavioral problems in school which is why they signed him up for swimming.

Debbie Phelps interview here:

http://www.everydayhealth.com/adhd/living-with-adhd/mylife/debbie_phelps/landing.aspx

[proserpina65]

1 hour ago, Athena said:

I am also not a Phelps fan and I know his achievements are great. He also does not necessarily sound like an asshole either all the time, but the drunk driving thing bothered me a lot. It is sad that his training or his career as a swimmer has caused him these issues. One of the reasons I was turned off by Phelps early on is that I remember how male swimming was before Phelps. It had its stars, but the media overhype both in the USA and internationally does leave much less time for others. I do not necessarily think it actually makes the sport better to have them hype this one athlete for dominating most of the male swimming events. There are different competitors with different styles in every competition such as swimming and since Phelps has been on the scene, those athletes have been overshadowed.

 

I do not think anyone is actually saying that Phelps is as bad as drug or steroid users for competing in the games. Phelps has his fans and he also has his non-fans. I agree than Sun and Elfimova are worse athletes. We can dislike them all for different reasons.

I'll confess that some of my anti-Phelps feeling (and I include his annoying mother in that) has to do with the media coverage.  I live in the Baltimore viewing area, and if you think the NBC deification of him is bad, you should watch the Baltimore coverage.

[Ohwell]

5 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

I'll confess that some of my anti-Phelps feeling (and I include his annoying mother in that) has to do with the media coverage.  I live in the Baltimore viewing area, and if you think the NBC deification of him is bad, you should watch the Baltimore coverage.

I live in the DC area, where I'm guessing the coverage is even more over the top.  Aaaannd he's on the screen right now.

I also agree about his annoying mother.  "Fiance" had better get used to her being around all the time. 

[briochetwist]

11 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

Yes ADHD and he had behavioral problems in school which is why they signed him up for swimming.

Debbie Phelps interview here:

http://www.everydayhealth.com/adhd/living-with-adhd/mylife/debbie_phelps/landing.aspx

Thanks for the link, interesting read. I can't help but wonder if maybe his ADHD was completely managed for him through what must have been an incredibly micromanaged, rigorous training schedule for most of his life. Without the endless training, and without medication, I can see how he might be lost on his own once he retires.

Edited August 8, 2016 by briochetwist

[proserpina65]

Just now, Ohwell said:

I live in the DC area, where I'm guessing the coverage is even more over the top.  Aaaannd he's on the screen right now.

I also agree about his annoying mother.  "Fiance" had better get used to her being around all the time. 

Yeah, Debbie Phelps makes Mrs. Wolowitz look like an absentee mother.

[Rinaldo]

That's an advantage of watching the live streams. The announcers definitely give Phelps his due (there's no denying his achievements), and and even show us in slo-mo replay what's good about his technique, but they talk about all the others too.

No doubt some will freak that he made only 3rd in his prelim heat just now, but there's still semifinals and the actual race to come.

[kittykat]

2 hours ago, galaxygirl76 said:

I feel the same way. Yeah it's amazing to win that many gold medals but does that make him a better Olympian than for example Steve Redgrave, who 'only' has 5 gold medals?

I don't dislike Michael.  I dislike NBC's MICHAEL MICHAEL MICHAEL ALL MICHAEL coverage.  I hope he can overcome his personal demons and that the Olympics will be good for his morale.

I agree upthread that decorated Olympians shouldn't be who has the most medals.  I mean, yes, Michael has 19 golds a couple of silvers and bronzes as well.  But is he any more decorated than say, Misty May-Treanor and Kerri Walsh-Jennings, who in three Olympics only dropped one match and won gold every time (Kerri is even back) but only have three medals because their sport doesn't award them for every match?  There are plenty of other examples too which is why medal count doesn't always define most successful (though I should probably take this to medals).

It's just the relays that bug me because they're all "Michael won, he won he won...and those guys over there did too."

Edited August 8, 2016 by kittykat
Brain meet keyboard. Keyboard, brain.

[Elsydeon]

13 hours ago, Dots And Stripes said:

Phelps gets special treatment (like an early exit from the Opening Ceremonies per Yahoo) and they give him a very marketable image.

To be fair, Phelps wasn't the only one that didn't stay for the entire Opening Ceremony. During the women's volleyball match between the US and Puerto Rico, the commentators mentioned that the US team marched in and marched right back out. They said they were in the stadium for about 10 minutes tops.

[emma675]

I'll be honest, if I were an athlete with an event a day or two or even three after the opening ceremony, I'd leave early, too. I'd want to have the experience of marching in with my country but I would not want to stand around for hours afterward on the hard ground, waiting for things to end. I don't blame any of the athletes who left early.

I'm fine with Phelps--the dude is a beast in the water and so much fun to watch (I literally sat up straight on my couch after his turn off the wall in the relay yesterday, that was incredible), but I'm really tired of NBC acting like he's the only person in the water.

[galaxygirl76]

The Dutch athletes who had to perform within 48 hours of the opening were not allowed to go at all with the exception of a tennis player who begged and begged to go and was allowed to.

[Ohwell]

7 minutes ago, galaxygirl76 said:

The Dutch athletes who had to perform within 48 hours of the opening were not allowed to go at all with the exception of a tennis player who begged and begged to go and was allowed to.

That's just awful for the athletes who've trained so hard and then they can't march in the Olympics.  Seems like they could have let them march in and just set a time limit--say one hour--then they'd have to leave.  

[galaxygirl76]

It's not just the marching, they are in the back for quite a while waiting and a lot of athletes just don't want to do that to themselves either.

[Cherpumple]

The BBC coverage has shielded me from most of the Phelps hype, and I think they even referred to him as only "one of the best swimmers at the moment," which made me chuckle.

I don't think it was shown in the US coverage, but I have to talk about the behaviour of the French silver medalist Florent Manaudou during the 4x100 relay medal ceremony. First, while they were waiting for the medals to come out he was crouching on the ground, rather than standing. Then when he was handed his sculpture/trinket he just smirked and tucked it under his arm and looked incredibly unimpressed. Then afterwards, while they were all going down the gauntlet of reporters (doing the godawful "kiss/bite your medal" pose) he was directly behind Phelps, shooting daggers out of his eyes and you could tell he was just dying to rip that silver medal off his neck by how much he kept fiddling with it. He even grabbed it and almost removed it right after the US anthem finished, while still on the podium, but I guess he caught himself and realized how bad that would look. In short, I could not stop laughing at how childish he was being, but since it wasn't shown in the US and it happened at 4:30am in the UK, I feel like I'm the only one who noticed. I can't find any clips, but here is a picture of him looking at his trinket (second from the right). It doesn't quite capture his disdain, but it's close:

 

Edited August 8, 2016 by Cherpumple

[MVFrostsMyPie]

Kind of like what a bunch of the French soccer players did at the EURO 2016 award ceremony? They looked so ungrateful and some just took the medal and didn't even look at it or put it around their neck. I get that they're competitive and disappointed and everything but geez, no need for the stinky attitude.

[Ohwell]

1 hour ago, galaxygirl76 said:

It's not just the marching, they are in the back for quite a while waiting and a lot of athletes just don't want to do that to themselves either.

I know they have to wait a while until they actually start marching, and if the athletes themselves don't want to wait around, that's fine.  My point is that they should be allowed to march if they want to, and impose a time limit, if necessary.

[blackwing]

Maybe there's something in the French water.  I remember the French figure skater Surya Bonaly famously taking off her silver medal at one of the world championships in the 90s as soon as it was put around her neck.  She was largely reviled for that.  There haven't been many similar displays of poor sportsmanship at that level in professional sports.  Although Horseface Nancy Kerrigan's televised comments at the delay in the Olympic medal ceremony where she won silver to Oksana Baiul's gold ("why do we have to wait for her to put on her makeup, she's just going to start crying and mess it up again") comes to mind.

[Cherpumple]

Yeah, that was pretty bitchy of Nancy. But wasn't the delay due to the fact that they didn't have a copy of the Ukrainian anthem on hand because it had never been used before?

I vaguely recall a Judo or Taekwando competitor either removing their medal or outright refusing it, and being blasted in the press. It's pretty rare, and that's why I think Florent stopped himself after remembering how many eyes were on him at the moment. I thought it was funny.

[kili]

Quote

Maybe there's something in the French water.

It happens a lot in team sports. The teams go into the gold/silver medal round, have a tough battle and then the loser is immediately handed their silver medal while still processing the loss (and are still exhausted from the game).  I know there always seems to be a lot of comments about sad-sack silver medalists after the Hockey medal rounds. In team games sports, it is sometimes better to win bronze because you finish on a winning note (and you have to wait for the gold/silver game to be played so you are rested by the time you get your medal).

Athletes are tough competitors and it is probably sometimes hard to put on your "I am so pleased to have not lived up to my potential" face.  I always cut them a little slack. It is nice to get a medal (most will not), but if you are a heavy favourite, why can you not be upset with yourself to have lost?  A little disappointment is fine - some athletes do take it too far.

And what are those do-hickies they are giving them anyway? I'd probably have a confused look on my face about them as well if I was handed one.

Edited August 8, 2016 by kili

[Rinaldo]

57 minutes ago, kili said:

And what are those do-hickies they are giving them anyway? I'd probably have a confused look on my face about them as well if I was handed one.

It's possible everyone was joking and I missed the tone, but after the relay medal ceremony last night, as they were shuffling around greeting each other, one of the US swimmers fitted his medal into the loop on the doohickey, and it fit. And the commentator said "Oh! it's a display stand for the medal! We've been wondering!"

[Cherpumple]

That makes more sense than anything else I could think of, which was paperweight. I guess it's better than getting flowers. I guess.

[tanyak]

2 hours ago, kili said:

It happens a lot in team sports. The teams go into the gold/silver medal round, have a tough battle and then the loser is immediately handed their silver medal while still processing the loss (and are still exhausted from the game).  I know there always seems to be a lot of comments about sad-sack silver medalists after the Hockey medal rounds. In team games sports, it is sometimes better to win bronze because you finish on a winning note (and you have to wait for the gold/silver game to be played so you are rested by the time you get your medal).

So true.  When Argentina lost to Germany in the World Cup a couple of years ago,  those silver or whatever color medals they received hung around their necks for exactly five hot seconds.  Just long enough for each player to shake the hand of the people presenting them, and then they came right off. It was kind of funny to watch. 

[galaxygirl76]

Welcome to tonight's episode of the Michael Phelps variety hour.

[Rinaldo]

I'm watching the swimming online at nbcolympics, so it'll be more even-handed than that.

[KenyaJ]

Man. It's so weird to see Missy Franklin come in last in a semifinal after her dominance in London. I hope she does better in the backstroke.

[superdeluxe]

27 minutes ago, galaxygirl76 said:

Welcome to tonight's episode of the Michael Phelps variety hour.

That's why I'm kind of skipping tonight's coverage.  If I turn to it and there's no Michael Phelps, I'll watch.   But other than that, no.

[galaxygirl76]

I'm just going to throw it out there, Heemskerk should have stayed with her old coach. She was doing great last year, national records and what not, 1:54 pr, left him for a coach in France and it's been downhill since.

 

I can't believe LeClos held on for a silver, I thought for sure he was going to die with that flying start!

Edited August 9, 2016 by galaxygirl76

[Crs97]

Speaking of dissing their silver medals, the 1972 men's basketball silver medals are still sitting in the vault, since the Americans didn't even show for the ceremony after they were robbed of the gold.

[KenyaJ]

Ugh. I just hate seeing Sun Yang win. 

ETA: The diver searching for Kathleen Baker's earring cracked my shit up.

Edited August 9, 2016 by KenyaJ

[Rinaldo]

9 minutes ago, galaxygirl76 said:

I can't believe LeClos held on for a silver, I thought for sure he was going to die with that flying start!

I know, right? He did seem to falter a tad around the last turn, but then he found an overdrive and got his silver.

[Minneapple]

Just now, Crs97 said:

Speaking of dissing their silver medals, the 1972 men's basketball silver medals are still sitting in the vault, since the Americans didn't even show for the ceremony after they were robbed of the gold.

Some of them have had it written into their wills that none of their heirs can claim the medals.

[Daisy]

Canada won another Bronze (that was one crazy race - 2-3 were seperated by 1 100th of a point). 

[KenyaJ]

Lenny Krayzelburg, Aaron Piersol, and Matt Grievers were three of my favorite swimmers ever. I'm so excited to see Ryan Murphy and David Plummer carry on the great tradition of American backstrokers.

[TobinAlbers]

Ryan Murphy's book dedicated to his mom about swimming was adorable. Talk about visualizing your goals!

[ExplainItAgain]

Lily King! WOW! You go girl. Back up that mouth with the talent!!

[KenyaJ]

LILLY KIIIIIING! I wanted her to win and defeat Efimova so badly. Cold War in the pool, LOL. And yay for Katie Meili too!

Edited August 9, 2016 by KenyaJ
Because, unlike my dog, Lilly's name is spelled with 2 Ls.

[Cherpumple]

28 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

Some of them have had it written into their wills that none of their heirs can claim the medals.

Was it actually a controversial loss, or were they just being big babies? I have no problem with people being devastated or angry if they don't perform up to their own standards, but that's no excuse for being rude or disrespectful to the other competitors and the organizers of the tournament.

Back to swimming: Sun Yang was really showboating around the pool after getting his medal. They practically had to shoo him away so they could continue with the events. 

Yay Lily and Katie!

[CarolinaPam]

So proud of Lily, Katie, and my hometown girl Kathleen!

[Rick Kitchen]

Just now, Cherpumple said:

Was it actually a controversial loss, or were they just being big babies?

It was a very controversial loss that to this day, most Americans think the loss was undeserved.

[Cherpumple]

Thanks! I don't know anything about that game. I'll go look it up now!

[Crs97]

Great swim!  Regarding the 1972 baskatball game, the short story is that it was the height of the Cold War and an eastern bloc official overrode the referees to add time back on the clock TWICE to give the USSR extra chances to inbound the ball for a final shot.

[catray]

LILY KING!! Amazing! That was a great race and I freaking love that she beat Efimova, hahaha! And congrats to Katie on her bronze. 

[Rinaldo]

Nicole repeated it just now, so I guess she meant it: the little tchotchke is a medal display stand. More lasting and useful than flowers, after all....

Edited August 9, 2016 by Rinaldo

[mojoween]

The 72 men's hoops team was screwed out of that medal and those silvers should be smelted down to nothing and never see the light of day.

Lilly's reaction to finding out Katie won the bronze is why I love the Olympics.

"Just in case you might not have heard, Michael [Phelps] became a father recently..."

Um, we know.  Kids who haven't been born yet know.  People who live in countries that don't have televisions know.  And I'm one of the people who LIKES Michael, but I understand how over the top the media is about him.