S02.E06: She's Too Young for Breast Surgery

[radishcake]

Quote

Jazz's parents are divided when she starts exploring breast surgery. Meanwhile, Sander and Griffen think Jazz is getting too much attention from their mom; and Jazz decides to keep flirtatious texts from a boy a secret.

[amber335]

Aww I feel bad for Sander and Griffen. I definitely know how it feels to not be the favorite and to get less attention. It isn't Jazz's fault that she needs extra attention but their mom needs to realize she has 3 other children that also need attention.

[Caracoa1]

I think Ari, Griffin and Sander are such good devoted kids to their family.  I know they love and support Jazz but can't  help but wonder if deep down there is some hidden resentment that Jazz has always gotten the best emotionally from their parents.  It must be such a mentally draining journey.  The truth is..no matter what those 3 kids accomplish in their lives it will never begin to compare to Jazz and her struggles. It would not surprise  me if one day one of those kids just ups and leaves the family  to begin a life apart from all this drama .. I don't in any way blame Jazz but it had to be so hard .

[KBrownie]

Full disclosure, I haven't watched every episode of the show, but I would be interested in seeing or knowing how much empathy Jazz has towards her siblings' understandable feelings of being, unintentionally I'm sure, emotionally neglected by their parents due to the support that Jazz's situation requires.   I know she's still very young and still developing mentally, but she has to be aware that she gets the lion's share of the attention in that household and that it isn't really the most ideal situation for her siblings.  It's not her fault or anything, but I just wonder if she has acknowledged this fact and how her journey has impacted her siblings.  Of course she isn't responsible for their emotional well-being, that's all on their parents, but I would just like to see some awareness.  I mean, her sister and brothers have all been shown to be extremely supportive of her, as they should be, and I would just like to see if that is reciprocated by Jazz.  They've been on this journey with her from a  very young age themselves and I have no doubt that they've had it drilled into them by the parents how they need to support their sister, I just wonder if Jazz has had the same instruction to be sensitive to their needs as well.  Even if their struggles aren't on the same level as being born in the wrong body, they matter too.  I'll see how it plays out and hopefully I'm wrong, but the preview showing one of the brothers talking about his injury while Jazz and the mom are climbing a tree didn't seem to be a very good look for either.  It's just such a tricky situation all around.

[woodscommaelle]

Awww Griffin. What a cool kid. I really like him.

[MegD]

Maybe it's just my personal filter coming out, but I think Jazz is very enabled by her mother and has learned to manipulate things to get her way. Her father made it clear that at 15, she's entirely too young for top surgery in his opinion. The look she gave him and stating that she's going to do what the doctor says made it clear that she has little respect for her father's decisions (and let's face it, it's going to be parental money paying for this, not Jazz at this point). Even Grandma called it "I would suppose that Jazz gets her way most of the time... I have a feeling the word no does not come up too often." It bothers me that the plastic surgeon kept referring to Jazz's breast as "deformed." I suspect Jazz and her mom are going to use that as justification to get what Jazz wants. She's also skilled at pulling attention to herself (the whole "I feel weird" after the focus was on her mother).

Meanwhile, Mom needs to take it down several notches when it comes to Jazz versus her siblings. The need to follow Jazz up a tree while she had a son with an injury was pretty clear about her priorities. Even when she took him to the specialist, she looked checked out. When she was getting her feet done with Griffen, she couldn't just focus on him. Instead she's desperately trying to find out about Jazz. For the same reason, I feel like she was probably doing the same while Sander was being examined. It just wasn't shown. I get that Jazz has a special set of circumstances, but she has 3 other kids. (Disclosure: my baby brother almost died at 3 weeks from meningitis. He got the lion's share of our mom's attention because he had been so sick. Being the non-special kids in the family sucks.)

[KBrownie]

34 minutes ago, MegD said:

Maybe it's just my personal filter coming out, but I think Jazz is very enabled by her mother and has learned to manipulate things to get her way. Her father made it clear that at 15, she's entirely too young for top surgery in his opinion. The look she gave him and stating that she's going to do what the doctor says made it clear that she has little respect for her father's decisions (and let's face it, it's going to be parental money paying for this, not Jazz at this point). Even Grandma called it "I would suppose that Jazz gets her way most of the time... I have a feeling the word no does not come up too often." It bothers me that the plastic surgeon kept referring to Jazz's breast as "deformed." I suspect Jazz and her mom are going to use that as justification to get what Jazz wants. She's also skilled at pulling attention to herself (the whole "I feel weird" after the focus was on her mother).

Meanwhile, Mom needs to take it down several notches when it comes to Jazz versus her siblings. The need to follow Jazz up a tree while she had a son with an injury was pretty clear about her priorities. Even when she took him to the specialist, she looked checked out. When she was getting her feet done with Griffen, she couldn't just focus on him. Instead she's desperately trying to find out about Jazz. For the same reason, I feel like she was probably doing the same while Sander was being examined. It just wasn't shown. I get that Jazz has a special set of circumstances, but she has 3 other kids. (Disclosure: my baby brother almost died at 3 weeks from meningitis. He got the lion's share of our mom's attention because he had been so sick. Being the non-special kids in the family sucks.)

Yeah, it's pretty clear that it's Jazz's world in that family and the rest of them are just along for the ride.  And Jazz knows it.   So does the rest of the family.  They're lucky the other kids seem to be relatively easy-going.  Other kids would not be so quiet and willing to put aside the blatant favoritism.  Or maybe they know it's a lost cause.  Jazz knows she has her mother in her back pocket, willing to go along with whatever Jazz wants.  Of course, Jazz's situation requires a lot of focus on her, but only to a certain point.  I'm so glad the grandmother, so I didn't feel bad saying it, so directly and succinctly spelled out how spoiled Jazz is.  She was somewhat snotty, especially with her dad, about how she was doing to do what she wanted when she wanted.  But, with Jeanette okaying and giving in to her all the time, it's not surprising.  Jazz also did not mention the financial implications of her surgeries either.  With all her talk of what she was going to do, I was thinking to myself who was going to be paying for all this?  Jeanette doesn't work does she?  Ari is at UF, and Sander and Griffen are headed there as well, so that's three sets of tuition along with expenses.  As a UF alumna and fellow Floridian, that isn't cheap.  Is insurance going to cover it all?  As mature and knowledgeable Jazz is about some things, she seems to be severely lacking in other areas, like how much things costs and empathy for her siblings.  Hopefully, she'll gain these things as she continues to grow.  She still needs to learn how to be a good and decent person regardless of her transgender status.  

Jeanette is really something else.  She says all the right things about loving all her kids equally, but I'm not really seeing it.  Jazz is far and away her favorite and main concern.  And Jazz takes her cues from her mother.  Why should Jazz show much concern or empathy for anyone or their opinions other than herself if her mother doesn't?  Jeannette makes it seem like her other kids annoy her.  She loves them, but they are background noise when she needs to be zeroed in on Jazz.  She acted like the twins were picking on her when they tried to tell her how she focuses so much on Jazz and not them.  She mentioned "Ari's drama," but Ari probably just wanted some attention from her as well.  The dad gets it, but doesn't seem like he's willing or able to do anything.  Jeanette made the comment about Jazz "having all my attention" when the boys leave, but I was like "She already does!"  All things considered, they all seem like good kids who don't resent Jazz personally and have a good relationship with her.  They're better than me, because with the way she just ignores anything that's not about her (climbing the tree when Sander said he was in pain) and having their whole lives focus on Jazz's journey, I would probably be a little more openly resentful or acting out in some way.  Jazz is a good kid too of course, but there are some red flags there for sure.  I think the boys are my favorites.  And the grandparents.

Edited July 14, 2016 by KBrownie
Punctuation

[CousinAmy]

If they show the Hospital or Medical Center - and you can read the sign - the surgery is probably being paid for by the show. I think they count on the salacious nature of the surgeries to draw viewers' eyes in. Since Jazz is so young, I would rather they focus on social, emotional, even legal issues, but just not top and bottom issues.

[Scarlett45]

6 hours ago, KBrownie said:

Yeah, it's pretty clear that it's Jazz's world in that family and the rest of them are just along for the ride.  And Jazz knows it.   So does the rest of the family.  They're lucky the other kids seem to be relatively easy-going.  Other kids would not be so quiet and willing to put aside the blatant favoritism.  Or maybe they know it's a lost cause.  Jazz knows she has her mother in her back pocket, willing to go along with whatever Jazz wants.  Of course, Jazz's situation requires a lot of focus on her, but only to a certain point.  I'm so glad the grandmother, so I didn't feel bad saying it, so directly and succinctly spelled out how spoiled Jazz is.  She was somewhat snotty, especially with her dad, about how she was doing to do what she wanted when she wanted.  But, with Jeanette okaying and giving in to her all the time, it's not surprising.  Jazz also did not mention the financial implications of her surgeries either.  With all her talk of what she was going to do, I was thinking to myself who was going to be paying for all this?  Jeanette doesn't work does she?  Ari is at UF, and Sander and Griffen are headed there as well, so that's three sets of tuition along with expenses.  As a UF alumna and fellow Floridian, that isn't cheap.  Is insurance going to cover it all?  As mature and knowledgeable Jazz is about some things, she seems to be severely lacking in other areas, like how much things costs and empathy for her siblings.  Hopefully, she'll gain these things as she continues to grow.  She still needs to learn how to be a good and decent person regardless of her transgender status.  

Jeanette is really something else.  She says all the right things about loving all her kids equally, but I'm not really seeing it.  Jazz is far and away her favorite and main concern.  And Jazz takes her cues from her mother.  Why should Jazz show much concern or empathy for anyone or their opinions other than herself if her mother doesn't?  Jeannette makes it seem like her other kids annoy her.  She loves them, but they are background noise when she needs to be zeroed in on Jazz.  She acted like the twins were picking on her when they tried to tell her how she focuses so much on Jazz and not them.  She mentioned "Ari's drama," but Ari probably just wanted some attention from her as well.  The dad gets it, but doesn't seem like he's willing or able to do anything.  Jeanette made the comment about Jazz "having all my attention" when the boys leave, but I was like "She already does!"  All things considered, they all seem like good kids who don't resent Jazz personally and have a good relationship with her.  They're better than me, because with the way she just ignores anything that's not about her (climbing the tree when Sander said he was in pain) and having their whole lives focus on Jazz's journey, I would probably be a little more openly resentful or acting out in some way.  Jazz is a good kid too of course, but there are some red flags there for sure.  I think the boys are my favorites.  And the grandparents.

I belong to a group of adult siblings to those have disablities (SibNet), and a lot of things we talk about were relevant in this episode. Of course the parallels aren't the same as Jazz isn't disabled, but the notion of "the squeaky wheel gets the oil", parental attention etc. it's amazing how different people react to the situation. Some thrive being the "easy one", others act out, others have simmering resentment, and otters don't have an issue and think they get plenty of attention. 

Something else we say on SibNet is "there is nothing stronger in the world than a mother's guilt." I know Jazz's Mom has a lot of fear for her that she just doesn't have for the kids (rightly so) and I would bet dollars to donuts that she has some unfounded guilt too- Moms can be like that. 

[mythoughtis]

I have to agree Jazz is spoiled, and Jeanette is living vicariously thru her.   Neither of them treat the father with any respect.   When  your father tells you that you are too young for breast surgery, you don't tell him you are going to get Mom to say yes, unless you are Jazz.

 

This is the 2nd episode I have seen Sander's football ending injury discussed.  Why do the parents seem clueless about the extent and prognosis for it?  There should be no reason for Sanders to have to be having this discussion over dinner (this episode),, and with Jeannette for dinner (the other episode),... because an injury like this should have had the parents fully involved from the beginning.  heck, the entire family had to fly to California for Jazz's minor surgery.   

[Pepper Mostly]

9 hours ago, KBrownie said:

Jeanette is really something else.  She says all the right things about loving all her kids equally, but I'm not really seeing it.  Jazz is far and away her favorite and main concern.  And Jazz takes her cues from her mother.  Why should Jazz show much concern or empathy for anyone or their opinions other than herself if her mother doesn't?  Jeannette makes it seem like her other kids annoy her.  She loves them, but they are background noise when she needs to be zeroed in on Jazz.  She acted like the twins were picking on her when they tried to tell her how she focuses so much on Jazz and not them.  She mentioned "Ari's drama," but Ari probably just wanted some attention from her as well.  The dad gets it, but doesn't seem like he's willing or able to do anything.  Jeanette made the comment about Jazz "having all my attention" when the boys leave, but I was like "She already does!"  All things considered, they all seem like good kids who don't resent Jazz personally and have a good relationship with her.  They're better than me, because with the way she just ignores anything that's not about her (climbing the tree when Sander said he was in pain) and having their whole lives focus on Jazz's journey, I would probably be a little more openly resentful or acting out in some way.  Jazz is a good kid too of course, but there are some red flags there for sure.  I think the boys are my favorites.  And the grandparents.

I am beyond over Jeanette. Yes, Jazz needs all the love and protection her family can shower on her, but not at the expense of her brothers and sister. And when called on it, (in the nicest possible way, too!) by Sander, Jeanette pouts and whimpers and makes it all about her. Not, "oh my god, he's right! I need to spend some time examining this and find a solution", but "my feelings are hurt! they make me feel like a terrible mother!". Just shut up already and make it right with your kids.

So-a "special treat" is in order, which just happens to be something that Jeanette will enjoy also! Why, its something she could have done with Jazz, which makes me think she had the appointment already and just switched out kids. Yes, bless him he was a good sport but really? A pedicure is a treat for an 18 year old boy? Don't even get me started on the doctor visit. WTF? What is wrong with this picture? Isn't football this kids' life? Hasn't he been worried and depressed about his injury? and his parents haven't made sure he got the best medical attention available? But when he asks for some of his mother's attention she thinks "oh, well, maybe we'll get that ACL looked at....". sheesh.

Same with Jazz's visit to the plastic surgeon, though. Well, looky here, mama wants some botox! Everything is about Jeanette. Those kids all have to dance attendance on her and constantly shore her up emotionally. Its really getting exhausting just watching, I can't imagine what its like to live with her.

Jazz was a little bratty but she's 15, most 15 year olds can be pretty bratty.

And oh my god the scene at the dinner table when Jazz was telling about her visit to the plastic surgeon! Who does that? What teenage girl talks about her breasts in front of her brothers, and her dad??

Edited July 14, 2016 by Pepper Mostly

[ClareWalks]

This is the first time I've been annoyed with Jazz. I just want to sit her down and tell her, "sweetie, EVERY teenage girl thinks her body sucks. EVERY teenage girl wants better boobs. Almost every teenage girl has uneven boobs, or 'weird nipples,' or something weird that they hate. Running to a surgeon is not always the best option." I think Jazz really thinks that cisgender girls have all perfect bodies and amazing body confidence, and that is so false.

[Pepper Mostly]

LOL, right? Considering how much time Jazz spends thinking about, talking about, and examining her boobs, you'd think she'd have had a conversation or two with her girlfriends about that subject. I'm sure they aren't all perfectly happy and secure with their bodies. What girl that age is?

[Madding crowd]

I don't know any teenager who is happy with their body overall. If Jazz has a 36 B/C bra size, she is doing better than most girls. I understand she is concerned over the shape, but she needs to wait until she is older and perhaps stop obsessing. I can't imagine talking to my parents about my nipples, or discussing breasts in front of teenage relatives. Of course, it seems like Jazz's family is pretty open minded about speaking your business.

I didn't like the so called dates Jeanette took the boys on. Why not let them pick out something they want to do? I seriously doubt if having a pedicure is top on the list of the average teen boy and I think they made up the story about his gross feet just to excuse it.

[VioletNevermind]

58 minutes ago, ClareWalks said:

This is the first time I've been annoyed with Jazz. I just want to sit her down and tell her, "sweetie, EVERY teenage girl thinks her body sucks. EVERY teenage girl wants better boobs. Almost every teenage girl has uneven boobs, or 'weird nipples,' or something weird that they hate. Running to a surgeon is not always the best option." I think Jazz really thinks that cisgender girls have all perfect bodies and amazing body confidence, and that is so false.

Exactly.  My own 15-year-old daughter is about two weeks older than Jazz, so I see a lot of Jazz's self-centered, thoroughly teenage attitude in my house.  Despite the fact that my daughter is absolutely beautiful (if I do say so myself!), she hates her body, particular those parts that make her physically female.  Everything is either too big, too small, misshapen, or otherwise odd.  You can tell her over and over again how gorgeous she is, but she only sees what her brain tells her to see.  Now, being an adult who went through a lot of the same things (along with every other teenage girl), I know that those feelings will probably work themselves out over time.  That's why I disagree wholeheartedly with Jazz's parents allowing her to even entertain the notion of top surgery.  Also, I agree 100% with Jazz's father re: Jeannette getting Botox or fillers, especially with Jazz being present during the procedure.  Not the best ideas to put into her head.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I don't think this show is good for Jazz at all.  So many privacy boundaries have been crossed at this point that I've lost count.  I'm sitting here trying to remember discussing my nipples at the dinner table with my dad and teenage brothers present (didn't happen).  But, whatever puts money in the bank account, right?  /sarcasm

Edited July 14, 2016 by SuzyLee

[blatantlyobvious]

1 hour ago, ClareWalks said:

This is the first time I've been annoyed with Jazz. I just want to sit her down and tell her, "sweetie, EVERY teenage girl thinks her body sucks. EVERY teenage girl wants better boobs. Almost every teenage girl has uneven boobs, or 'weird nipples,' or something weird that they hate. Running to a surgeon is not always the best option." I think Jazz really thinks that cisgender girls have all perfect bodies and amazing body confidence, and that is so false.

This. 1000% this. When she said something about her boobs not looking like those boobs you see on TV or in magazines, her mom casually mentioned that no one has those perfect boobs- that's the truth. Even those women pictured in the magazines don't have THOSE boobs, it's called retouching! Certainly no 15-year old who is NOT finished developing has "those" boobs. 

I'm SO GLAD that doctor told Jazz to wait until she's at least 18, but I have a feeling Jazz will nit-pick any and all perceived "deformity" in her breasts (and the rest of her body, for that matter) until the day of her 18th birthday- and I'll bet Jeanette will schedule her surgery as a "birthday present." Girl- Jazz has you wrapped around her pinkie finger! 

[Galloway Cave]

Transgender or cis, I can't believe a doctor used the word deformity to describe a 15 year old girl's developing breasts. Of course she picked up on that and used it when talking about her breasts. All he did was point out all the problems and she will hang on every negative word until the second she turns 18. The first doctor did a much better job at describing the situation but both Jazz and Jeanette chose to ignore him.

The show is now showing the turmoil behind Jazz's personal journey. The family isn't the perfect, all-for-one family they tried to make themselves out to be. And I agree with everyone else, Janette really needs to find her place in this journey. She is at the point where is is starting to cause damage.

[okerry]

2 hours ago, ClareWalks said:

This is the first time I've been annoyed with Jazz. I just want to sit her down and tell her, "sweetie, EVERY teenage girl thinks her body sucks. EVERY teenage girl wants better boobs. Almost every teenage girl has uneven boobs, or 'weird nipples,' or something weird that they hate. Running to a surgeon is not always the best option." I think Jazz really thinks that cisgender girls have all perfect bodies and amazing body confidence, and that is so false.

It reminded me of the scenes on "I Am Cait" where several transgender women are sitting around a table and talking about their bad experiences with dating men. They sounded exactly like straight women having the same conversation. I wanted to tell them, too, that hey, ALL women have the same kind of experiences.

Dealing with body asymmetry and having problems dating and getting along with men - now, those are things that are truly part of being a woman. But Jazz seems to be falling into the same trap as Cait, where being a woman is all about big perky boobs and fabulous clothes and great makeup. That's what *men* think being a woman is about. And it isn't.

[RealityCowgirl]

"I take my lead from Jazz." 

Um, dear. You're the mother. She's the child. In some cases, that may be appropriate. The rest of the time, she needs for you to do your damn job. 

Seriously hoping dad's not easily run over in real life.

[maraleia]

I really think the family should've said NO when TLC approached them to do this series because the network's grubby hands are all over the way they are depicted. If I were Greg I would put my foot down and say NO to a third season no matter how much money TLC throws at them.

Jazz's brand is getting tarnished with each episode and the haters are coming out in full force in online comments whenever an article is written about her or the show. Also, Jazz's YouTube videos comment sections.

FYI Griffen and Sander are already at college because they do something early for the Freshman there.

[operalover]

All women have one breast larger than the other and asymmetry. First I heard that I didnt think it was true but looked at mine (which are perfect BTW) and sure enough one is quite a bit bigger than the other. The one on the right side because I am right handed, probably has better muscle formation due to using that side of my body more or something like that. 

 

But the dad just keeps getting his wishes railroaded over by the mother, no? Has he EVER got his way? Whatever the mom wants to do they do. He didn't want Jazz on the radio show, she went anyway. He didn't want her at the conference, she went anyway. He didn't want the surgeon, she went anyway. I mean why do you even ask his opinion on things? Poor guy his wife is so damn pushy- she wears the pants and has his balls in a vice grip.

[KBrownie]

46 minutes ago, maraleia said:

I really think the family should've said NO when TLC approached them to do this series because the network's grubby hands are all over the way they are depicted. If I were Greg I would put my foot down and say NO to a third season no matter how much money TLC throws at them.

Jazz's brand is getting tarnished with each episode and the haters are coming out in full force in online comments whenever an article is written about her or the show. Also, Jazz's YouTube videos comment sections.

FYI Griffen and Sander are already at college because they do something early for the Freshman there.

While TLC of course has some influence in what is shown, they aren't responsible for every negative thing that comes up with Jazz and her family.  None of them are perfect.  TLC isn't putting words or actions in their mouths.  None of them would be able to pull off the acting job that would take.  You can see the hurt and frustration from those boys about how they feel slighted by their mother.  You can see the frustration from Greg as well when Jeanette just brushes him aside when he's trying to protect his daughter.  

I also don't buy into the idea that any legit criticism should be dismissed as just "haters."  Putting her journey out there for the world is an admirable and brave thing, but that doesn't automatically exempt them from criticism.  It comes with the territory.  I, and don't think anyone else here, was being a "hater" in the concerns voiced about the episode.  They were just observations.  Jazz's story has done a lot for bringing awareness of the struggles and realities of being transgender, but there are cracks in what they are trying to present.  I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing to show those cracks, it makes them real people.  But Jazz only being 15 is something that definitely needs to be considered.  Maybe they need to take a step back until she's older and more mature.

 

Good for Griffen and Sander getting away to college.  UF has what they call "Preview" every summer for incoming freshman to get acquainted with the campus and learn about the school.  I'm sure Jeanette is thrilled.  Jazz might be pretty happy as well.  No other kids to take attention away from Jazz.

[maraleia]

2 hours ago, KBrownie said:

While TLC of course has some influence in what is shown, they aren't responsible for every negative thing that comes up with Jazz and her family.  None of them are perfect.  TLC isn't putting words or actions in their mouths.  None of them would be able to pull off the acting job that would take.  You can see the hurt and frustration from those boys about how they feel slighted by their mother.  You can see the frustration from Greg as well when Jeanette just brushes him aside when he's trying to protect his daughter.  

I also don't buy into the idea that any legit criticism should be dismissed as just "haters."  Putting her journey out there for the world is an admirable and brave thing, but that doesn't automatically exempt them from criticism.  It comes with the territory.  I, and don't think anyone else here, was being a "hater" in the concerns voiced about the episode.  They were just observations.  Jazz's story has done a lot for bringing awareness of the struggles and realities of being transgender, but there are cracks in what they are trying to present.  I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing to show those cracks, it makes them real people.  But Jazz only being 15 is something that definitely needs to be considered.  Maybe they need to take a step back until she's older and more mature.

 

Good for Griffen and Sander getting away to college.  UF has what they call "Preview" every summer for incoming freshman to get acquainted with the campus and learn about the school.  I'm sure Jeanette is thrilled.  Jazz might be pretty happy as well.  No other kids to take attention away from Jazz.

By haters I mean people saying anti-trans stuff to her and about her like calling her he or "tranny freak" It's disgusting and needs to stop regardless of how she is acting i.e. somewhat spoiled.

[Dobian]

I thought the scenes with Sander and then Griffen whining about mom not giving them enough attention felt staged in that TLC way.  I've seen the same kind of conflict drama played out in the same way on other TLC shows.

Favorite part of the episode was grandma saying how Jazz always gets what Jazz wants because her parents never say 'no' to her.  Jazz does come off a bit like an entitled brat sometime, and the whole breast augmentation thing is an example of that.  That isn't a transgender thing, it's a female thing, and something that she can address when she's a legal adult.  At fifteen she needs to focus on school and other things, not cosmetic surgery.  And that doctor came off as a little bit creepy and kind of shady to me.  A legit doctor would have said, you're only fifteen and you're pretty normal compared to other girls.  Come back in your twenties if it's still a big deal.  Instead I felt like he played up to her insecurities.

Edited July 14, 2016 by Dobian

[MegD]

2 hours ago, Dobian said:

Instead I felt like he played up to her insecurities.

He definitely gave off the creepy "I'm going to pad my wallet" plastic surgeon vibe. Not the respectable plastic surgeon vibes. I also think he knew exactly what he was doing by calling it a "deformity." It's just going to fester in Jazz's mind that something's wrong with her rather than "Hey, you're 15 and your boobs are still developing."

 

I do wonder if a reputable plastic surgeon would ever operate on her at 18. She doesn't seem to have an understanding of the limitations and expectations of what breast augmentation will be. It appears that her perception is that it is the cure-all to her problems. I know some of this is her age, but it also seems that Mom is the same way.

[woodscommaelle]

2 hours ago, Dobian said:

And that doctor came off as a little bit creepy and kind of shady to me.  A legit doctor would have said, you're only fifteen and you're pretty normal compared to other girls.  Come back in your twenties if it's still a big deal.  Instead I felt like he played up to her insecurities.

Yes! That doctor.  There was something about him I did not like.  His bedside manner, for starters. And then whatever else it was. Not sure but nope.

[possibilities]

Grandma for the win.

Also, maybe Jazz could consider that the doctor has profit to make on calling every single breast he sees "deformed"-- God forbid women should love themselves without looking like airbrushed magazine centerfolds.

I wonder if TLC hates Jeannette. If she really is as bad as they showed her to be this week, ye Gods that's bad.

[biakbiak]

1 hour ago, MegD said:

He definitely gave off the creepy "I'm going to pad my wallet" plastic surgeon vibe. Not the respectable plastic surgeon vibes. I also think he knew exactly what he was doing by calling it a "deformity." It's just going to fester in Jazz's mind that something's wrong with her rather than "Hey, you're 15 and your boobs are still developing."

 

I do wonder if a reputable plastic surgeon would ever operate on her at 18. She doesn't seem to have an understanding of the limitations and expectations of what breast augmentation will be. It appears that her perception is that it is the cure-all to her problems. I know some of this is her age, but it also seems that Mom is the same way.

Reputable surgeons operate on people 18 years of age with more issues than Jazz. She seemed to grasp that it wasn't a cure all just that it was something that she could have control over. It seemed to me that the entire thing was for the show, I mean not necessarily her feelings but actually doing the consult when she even said during it she did want her breasts to develop more with time not surgery.

[possibilities]

I didn't like the so called dates Jeanette took the boys on. Why not let them pick out something they want to do?

Moreover, the ACL consult should have been done as regular parenting, not a special treat. Medical care is not a treat!

[MegD]

1 hour ago, biakbiak said:

Reputable surgeons operate on people 18 years of age with more issues than Jazz. She seemed to grasp that it wasn't a cure all just that it was something that she could have control over.

I know that reputable surgeons operate on 18 year old individuals all the time. I just don't see the same understanding you see in her. I think she's already made up her mind that surgery will cure everything. The doctor seemed to give little attention to the possible risks and was more concerned with selling her on the idea of surgery, which she clearly has already decided she needs. Again, it goes back to the language he used. Rather than say that she had relatively normal development for a 15 year old girl, he stated that she had a deformity. I think he fed into her desires for surgery as soon as possible.

[mourning sybil]

Quote

I have to agree Jazz is spoiled, and Jeanette is living vicariously thru her.   Neither of them treat the father with any respect.   When  your father tells you that you are too young for breast surgery, you don't tell him you are going to get Mom to say yes, unless you are Jazz.

Really?  Kids play parents off against each other all the time.  Of course the parents should talk privately and then present a united front.  That's what seems to be missing here.

I don't see Jazz as anymore of a brat than most 15 year olds.  She is spoiled, but far less than many teen-aged girls I know who come from families like hers.  And she's the baby of the family, which often adds to spoiling.  (just ask my 55-year old "baby" brother . . . still spoiled!) 

And she has always had special needs.  I do feel for the other children, but I have a feeling their "resentment" is being played up for the show.  Overall, they all seem to have good relationships with each other and their parents.

[Bajovane]

The plastic surgeon definitely made me feel that he was looking at dollar signs as he was looking at her.  Of course he's going to say what he said, he wants her to think she has to have plastic surgery.  He was really creepy the way he was looking at her. 

I do understand how the older kids can feel shortchanged due to their parent's focus on Jazz due to her issues.  I was the youngest child, with a severe hearing loss - I know my sisters (three older) often resented me as they felt I got the lion's share of attention.  To this day (we're in our 50s) they sometimes come out with jibes against me because I was such a "spoiled brat".  That really isn't fair to me - I have asked them if they'd like to trade lives and problems.  Of course, they just don't get it.

[Lady Lucy]

^^^

I have a cousin who had polio as a kid and still has severe problems.  Needless to say, her parents were very focused on her.  Her sister, to this day, is jealous of her.  Like you, she's asked if the sister would like to trade lives.  (I think her warped sister would trade if she could . . . she's that much of an attention whore.)

[ItsHelloPattiagain]

Quote

I do wonder if a reputable plastic surgeon would ever operate on her at 18. She doesn't seem to have an understanding of the limitations and expectations of what breast augmentation will be.

I live in a town which borders where Jazz and her family live. My kids have been out of HS for several years but there were several girls that they knew who got breast augmentations at age 16 as Sweet Sixteen presents. It's not uncommon here.   In this particular area there is a lot of pressure for females to look perfect - a good portion of the moms in the area engage in multiple plastic surgeries, nose jobs, Botox, collagen, you name it. 

IMHO if the plastic surgeon considers it a "deformity" perhaps he's trying to justify it so that insurance will cover it (instead of saying "she wants bigger boobs", it's "her boobs are deformed, let's fix them" - again something I've known several people to engage in, although not specifically teens). 

[jacksgirl]

I love Greg. He is smart, loving and has Jazz' best interests at heart. As the older kids continue to grow and move away from home, I think all 3 will slowly but steadily move emotionally away from Jeanette. The love will be there, but Jeanette favors Jazz and there will be some consequences IMO.

[rck]

A "deformity" is actually what it's called: tuberous breast deformity. It wasn't just the doctor calling it that. Here are a couple stories of women who had breasts like that and it seems like it really affected their self-esteem. With Jazz I thought at first that she just didn't have perfectly symmetrical breasts, which is totally normal, but I was a little more sympathetic when I found out what the actual issue is. From the pictures I've seen of tuberous breasts, I don't blame someone with it for wanting plastic surgery. Depending on the severity, some women with tuberous breasts can't even breast feed. (I was going to say that wouldn't be an issue with Jazz, but it is possible to induce lactation in AMAB people and I actually have heard of transwomen breastfeeding, so who knows.)

All that said, I'm pretty uncomfortable with the fact that there's a storyline about a 15-year-old's breasts, especially since it's not even directly related to her being transgender. I'm glad she won't be able to get surgery until 18.

I wonder too if her parents would be as willing to consider plastic surgery if their other kids wanted it, or if because surgery is expected if someone is trans they're more willing than they would have been otherwise to let Jazz get even non-transgender-related surgery.

I do like both parents, and the family in general, but I also question any parents who let their kids be featured on a reality show. It rarely seems to go well for families. I understand that they feel like people need to hear Jazz's story, but that doesn't necessarily mean they have to do a reality show--they could have continued doing occasional interviews and appearances like they were doing before the show.

[Fostersmom]

Mama Famewhore is just ridiculous. How many times are her sons going to have to point out they are feeling neglected for her to give either of them 10 minutes of her undivided time? When they flat out refuse to be around her? And I'm also over hearing her refer to Ari's "drama" or "issues". I'm going to just assume those are there's another kid feeling completely ignored. It's probably even harder on Ari, imagine growing up watching your little "brother" becoming your little "sister" when you are barely more than a child yourself and with a mom like this one. Somehow I doubt Mom ever took the time to make sure Ari fully understood everything that was going on and didn't feel like she wasn't "enough" as a daughter. I don't think Ari does now, but she was so young even when Jazz was born and was the new shiny baby, let alone the new shiny transgender sibling, and it's not hard to imagine it being harder on Ari than the twins. Let's be honest, mom's probably been all about Jazz for at least 10 years now and well… sucks to be the other kids. 

The plastic surgeon was kinda creepy, but not as bad as I thought when I was flipping channels the other night and only saw like 10 seconds of him. He just looks creepy and that totally colored my 10 second perception, but what he told her did seem medically sound, if not stated exactly appropriately for a 15 year old. I have one boob that's a lot bigger than the other, and I'm sure a plastic surgeon would call it a deformity, but I'm almost 40, not 15, and I'm okay with them. Had I heard deformity, even in the most medical sense, at 15, it would have been rough on the psyche. I did like he told Famewhore she didn't need botox. Jazz almost passing out was kinda funny, I'll give mom that. Jazz is all about getting herself some major surgery, but mom gets a couple shots of fillers and she's close to hitting the floor. 

[Caracoa1]

Is it possible the deformity is due to Jazz bring on artificial hormones?..... She's  a sweet kid..but the truth is she is genetically male

[biakbiak]

1 hour ago, Caracoa1 said:

Is it possible the deformity is due to Jazz bring on artificial hormones?..... She's  a sweet kid..but the truth is she is genetically male

As the doctor stated and the above link illustrates it's just as prevelant in cis females. 

[Caracoa1]

10 hours ago, biakbiak said:

As the doctor stated and the above link illustrates it's just as prevelant in cis females. 

He stated it was not very common.

[jnymph]

Greg should have put his foot down in regards to Jazz even getting a consult. I disagree though with him on Jeanette getting Botox sets a precsident. She's a 50 year old making a grown ass decision.  Jazz is only FIFTEEN. Actually I think it would have set a GOOD example  to take Jazz with her to get her procedure, and then refuse to let her have a consult.  I am shaking my head in disbelief that she says she takes Jazz's lead.  That about says it all. Sad! Wish Greg would take more charge but methinks Jeanette never hears NO either. Ugh 

I felt the same sensation as Jazz after watching Jeanette getting the fillers, if I was there I'd have fainted. That answers my question of getting any face work done for myself ( I'm Jeanette's age)  ... No thanks.  I'll keep my wrinkles.

Poor Sander & Griffin.  They are such great guys that deserve their Mom to be more present.

 

Still love the grandparents

[TwirlyGirly]

21 hours ago, rck said:

A "deformity" is actually what it's called: tuberous breast deformity. It wasn't just the doctor calling it that. Here are a couple stories of women who had breasts like that and it seems like it really affected their self-esteem. With Jazz I thought at first that she just didn't have perfectly symmetrical breasts, which is totally normal, but I was a little more sympathetic when I found out what the actual issue is. From the pictures I've seen of tuberous breasts, I don't blame someone with it for wanting plastic surgery. Depending on the severity, some women with tuberous breasts can't even breast feed. (I was going to say that wouldn't be an issue with Jazz, but it is possible to induce lactation in AMAB people and I actually have heard of transwomen breastfeeding, so who knows.)

<snip>

I actually have this deformity, and my breasts look almost identical to the before picture in the article in Cosmopolitan. I wasn't able to breast-feed, but it wasn't until my daughter was several years old that I learned my deformity has a name and that it could cause problems with breast-feeding. I tried to breast feed my daughter, but she steadily lost weight over the first three weeks after she was born and I had to switch to formula. When trying to breast feed, my breasts never felt "full," I never experienced the "let down" I had heard about, nor did my breasts ever "leak." I was devastated, because I really wanted to breast feed.

Because my right breast is so small and has no breast tissue below the nipple, I can't get any kind any type of bra cup to stay ON that breast. Talk about embarrassing; how would you like to glance down and see your bra cup is no longer covering your breast and is now lying halfway between your breast and your shoulder? But I have to wear a bra with some things, so I'm constantly looking down to check the right cup and pull it back down when it begins to creep up..

I wish more than anything I could get this corrected, but I can't afford it and it sucks. I'll take donations, though <wink>

[biakbiak]

6 hours ago, Caracoa1 said:

He stated it was not very common.

No he didn't he stated that it also occurred in cis females.

[maraleia]

I understand why everyone wants to comment on the subject of last week's episode but lets remember that we're talking about a sensitive 15 year old young woman who holds a unique space in our society. We may not like her mom's behavior but that's not Jazz's fault. Also, if you watched any of the specials about their family prior to this show you'd see that Ari really loves her sister and so do her brothers.

Her siblings beef is with their mom who clearly needs to get a job and life outside of that home. I get why she didn't work when they were younger especially because of Jazz's issues at school battling bathroom and sports access issues but she doesn't need to hover any more. If she continues to do what she's done in the past few episodes things can only end badly. Greg needs to put his foot down more.

[mamapajama]

On 7/14/2016 at 7:53 PM, woodscommaelle said:

Yes! That doctor.  There was something about him I did not like.  His bedside manner, for starters. And then whatever else it was. Not sure but nope.

Watch the episode again.  He is a dead ringer for Austin Powers!  Hairstyle, glasses--everything!

[abbey]

That is the first thing I thought of when I finally watched the episode last night.  He is the spitting image of Austin Powers!  All he needed was a British accent. 

Edited July 18, 2016 by abbey
typo

[nutella fitzgerald]

On July 14, 2016 at 9:40 PM, possibilities said:

 

Moreover, the ACL consult should have been done as regular parenting, not a special treat. Medical care is not a treat!

Are we sure that was his treat? I honestly thought he didn't get one and was just changing the subject when asked what his treat was. Either interpretation is pretty sad :(