S08.E03: Indianapolis Qualifier

[OnceSane]

Contestants take on six obstacles, including the Floating Steps, Fly Wheels and Disk Runner.  From Indianapolis.

[slf]

They seem like nice guys but I have no idea why you'd think "I'm a 225-275 pound [former] football player, I can totally do this!" Has one ever made it through a course?

Aw, poor Michaela. She was doing so well. Going out by your foot hitting the water always seems to upset them the most and I totally get it. It's one thing to not have the wingspan or whatever, but to actually make it onto the mat but to have your toes hit the water? Ouch.

I forget the name of the woman who called herself The Machine but she did really well.

Knapp had a great run and I loved the handstand at the end. What a great inspiration for his little brothers.

[Lantern7]

Looks like the Wolf Pack isn't going to do well in the weeks to come, given how little time Ian Dory and Brian Arnold got. And Brian was the captain of the team that won Team Ninja Warrior, Party Time. Jake Murray was also on that team, but they didn't bring it up.

Sucks to see Michael Stanger go out early. Sucks harder that his daughters have the same disease their mother does. And damn, Zach the One-Legged Warrior was impressive. He was so lucky his  leg didn't hit the water on Log Roll.

Meagan Martin continues to rock, even though she posted the slowest time amongst the finishers. You think Kacy's innards get frozen, seeing other women complete the course, and feeling that and the hype she generated two years ago suffocate her?

[candall]

My tv cut off the very end of the very last person.  Did Meagan (I think) make it?  She was almost done with the hanging spike things when I lost the show.

 

I've never seen any of this competition before.  Wow, some amazing people in there.  (And since I have a lot of MN rescue connections, I was thrilled to see the MN dog guy with the rescued Vick pittie promoting animal adoption.  Yay!)

[slf]

7 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Looks like the Wolf Pack isn't going to do well in the weeks to come, given how little time Ian Dory and Brian Arnold got. And Brian was the captain of the team that won Team Ninja Warrior, Party Time. Jake Murray was also on that team, but they didn't bring it up.

Sucks to see Michael Stanger go out early. Sucks harder that his daughters have the same disease their mother does. And damn, Zach the One-Legged Warrior was impressive. He was so lucky his  leg didn't hit the water on Log Roll.

Meagan Martin continues to rock, even though she posted the slowest time amongst the finishers. You think Kacy's innards get frozen, seeing other women complete the course, and feeling that and the hype she generated two years ago suffocate her?

Does a competitor getting less screen time mean they wipe out later? I've only watched one previous season and I wasn't paying attention to that then.

My heart broke for the Stanger family. Especially for the mom (not that it wouldn't affect Michael); she knows the disease intimately and knows exactly how her daughters are going to suffer. What a blow. But I was glad to see that Michael competing is something they can all bond around.

Meagan Martin is a champ. I did wonder if she'd be able to make it up the new taller wall but of course she got it on her second try!

Catanzaro probably puts a lot of pressure on herself and it's not pretty to watch, especially given that the show itself heaps a lot of attention on her more to promote themselves than anything else. She kind of carried that weight of representing women, being the only woman to have made it up the warped wall. And rather than alleviate that burden, other women making it through just put more pressure on her. "Why isn't #MightyKacy succeeding, lol?" She's far from the only hyped competitor but it does seem like she has more obligation to keep succeeding.

Edited June 14, 2016 by slf

[Lantern7]

Meagan made it, as did speed-burner Loren Ball, who clocked the fastest time. Did he run last year?

[VartanFan]

Still love Meagan. 

Can't stand headband guy or Loren.  I guess I just hate the cheeseball showoffs.  

The logroll seems a lot harder to get through than the 2nd obstacles in other cities.  I sort of feel like it should be on all courses or none.

 

PS - took just 50 minutes to get through tonight's episode after ffwd through all the filler.  

 

ETA - I think we should nominate phrases for extinction.  I'd like to nominate "getting a little hung up on...".  I.e. nearly everyone on the rope at the end of the floating steps.  "Well, Akbar, he's getting little hung up here...".

Edited June 14, 2016 by VartanFan

[slf]

Yeah, it seems like some qualifying courses are harder than others (and I hate seeing the veterans running the easier courses). The log roll can be pretty brutal. It's left some people bleeding from the head. 

I hope Michaela comes back next season, she has a lot of potential. Female rock climbers and pole vaulters have such a good track record on this show. 

[simplyme]

53 minutes ago, slf said:

Catanzaro probably puts a lot of pressure on herself and it's not pretty to watch, especially given that the show itself heaps a lot of attention on her more to promote themselves than anything else. She kind of carried that weight of representing women, being the only woman to have made it up the warped wall. And rather than alleviate that burden, other women making it through just put more pressure on her. "Why isn't #MightyKacy succeeding, lol?" She's from the only hyped competitor but it does seem like she has more obligation to keep succeeding.

Just wanted to note that Meagan Martin made it up the warped wall the same year Kacy did, but Kacy did it first since her qualifier came first.  That seems like a technicality to me since it was the same round, but hey, I'm not the one who decides these things.

I thought Meagan asking her mom to be in the audience this time was sweet.  I imagine all the attention is a lot of pressure.

[Aliconehead]

While that's true, Kacy is still the only female to finish the city finals course. To me that gives her some credibility. I do think Jessie Graff and Meghan are more well rounded competitors. 

[slf]

6 hours ago, simplyme said:

Just wanted to note that Meagan Martin made it up the warped wall the same year Kacy did, but Kacy did it first since her qualifier came first.  That seems like a technicality to me since it was the same round, but hey, I'm not the one who decides these things.

True, it would've been more accurate to say she was the first woman to make it up the wall. But once you've trail-blazed people keep expecting you to and that can be a lot of pressure.

[butterbean1]

10 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Looks like the Wolf Pack isn't going to do well in the weeks to come, given how little time Ian Dory and Brian Arnold got. And Brian was the captain of the team that won Team Ninja Warrior, Party Time. Jake Murray was also on that team, but they didn't bring it up.

Sucks to see Michael Stanger go out early. Sucks harder that his daughters have the same disease their mother does. And damn, Zach the One-Legged Warrior was impressive. He was so lucky his  leg didn't hit the water on Log Roll.

Meagan Martin continues to rock, even though she posted the slowest time amongst the finishers. You think Kacy's innards get frozen, seeing other women complete the course, and feeling that and the hype she generated two years ago suffocate her?

I read somewhere that Isaac Caldiero (who won the $million last year) wouldn't come back unless NBC paid him.  I also read that Noah Kaufmann (the Dr that is also part of the Wolf Pack) wasn't invited back this year.  The Wolf Pack looks like it took on new members.

[Morgan of Hed]

Loved Michaela! She has great energy, hope we see her again. 

[slf]

3 hours ago, butterbean1 said:

I read somewhere that Isaac Caldiero (who won the $million last year) wouldn't come back unless NBC paid him.  I also read that Noah Kaufmann (the Dr that is also part of the Wolf Pack) wasn't invited back this year.  The Wolf Pack looks like it took on new members.

If that is true then we have confirmation that Caldiero is a douche. I like this show but it's not a sport, it's basically a game show, and I've never seen anything that so much as suggests that Caldiero is a draw. (Hell, even while applauding Caldiero's win last season a lot of people said they wished Britten had won. The guy isn't very popular.) If he were coming back as an announcer or something then I'd get it. But pay him to come back?

I'm not surprised that Kaufmann wasn't invited back, he's the one member of the "Wolf Pack" that doesn't make sense. I mean, he seems like a nice enough guy but he rarely does as well as the others, if memory serves. 

Edited June 14, 2016 by slf

[ClareWalks]

That kickboxing woman is a disaster. To fall on the easy quintuple steps last year, and then AGAIN this year, for the same reason: she DIDN'T BOTHER TO ACTUALLY JUMP. Good lord.

[AuntieDiane6]

Quote

I read somewhere that Isaac Caldiero (who won the $million last year) wouldn't come back unless NBC paid him.  I also read that Noah Kaufmann (the Dr that is also part of the Wolf Pack) wasn't invited back this year.  The Wolf Pack looks like it took on new members.

If that is true then we have confirmation that Caldiero is a douche. I like this show but it's not a sport, it's basically a game show, and I've never seen anything that so much as suggests that Caldiero is a draw. (Hell, even while applauding Caldiero's win last season a lot of people said they wished Britten had won. The guy isn't very popular.) If he were coming back as an announcer or something then I'd get it. But pay him to come back?

I bet Kacy gets an appearance fee and expenses ... Otherwise, I seriously doubt she would show up at EVERY city qualifier. And if NBC is making money (it must since it now repeats the segments on both NBC and Esquire), there's no reason why Caldiero shouldn't get an athlete's share too. This isn't college football. 

Good for him.

[Morgan of Hed]

There's a bunch of them that appear on the sidelines every show.  I can't imagine they are doing it on their own nickel.  NBC is trying to build branded athletes here, I expect they are paying them something.  They refer to them as "pros".

[Chaos Theory]

Calling thus a sport is debatable.  I get why people don't want to.  Before it can become a legitamite sport it needs to get out of NBC's hands which has a real incentive to make the courses so hard no one wins.   The courses need to be tough but stable before this can be a legitamite sport which NBC doesn't really want.

As for who gets paid and who doesn't.  I don't think any of them get paid perse.  I think a lot of them have built their lives around this competition so they show up whenever and wherever.  Kacy was there to check out the competition for herself and her boyfriend.  Plus there is just something about being there.  It looked like she enjoyed herself.

[questionfear]

Also, IIRC Kacy and her BF opened a gym I think. So they may consider it good marketing to have their faces and names in every episode. 

[simplyme]

Do we have confirmation that Caldiero was paid to appear, though?  I agree he isn't the most likeable guy, but I don't want to assume something is true without a good source.

I admit to a completely instinctive knee jerk dislike of Lance Pekus.  I realize it's not rational and he did nothing to deserve it, but something about him annoys me.  I try to keep that in mind when he's running.  (It might be genetic.  We saw a preview for the next qualifier during this one, which Lance is in, and SimplyDad made some comment about "That guy again?")

[ClareWalks]

6 minutes ago, simplyme said:

I admit to a completely instinctive knee jerk dislike of Lance Pekus.  I realize it's not rational and he did nothing to deserve it, but something about him annoys me.  I try to keep that in mind when he's running.  (It might be genetic.  We saw a preview for the next qualifier during this one, which Lance is in, and SimplyDad made some comment about "That guy again?")

I concur. I think it's the omnipresent cowboy hat, it's too gimmicky. 

[VartanFan]

I was reading an article about this exact topic of paid appearances for ANW.  Basically, similar to American Idol, NBC owns them...their likeness, all their interviews, everything.  They do not get paid to appear but they're able to parlay their appearance into paid appearances, their own line of ____, and (as questionfear said) marketing opportunities.  I have no doubt that NBC would pay to truck in some of the faces for every qualifier but I doubt they're getting any kind of cash.  

I'm a little saddened by the number of people who return and previously had a job/career and are now 'obstacle course trainers', 'gym owners', etc.  I mean, good for them for turning it into money but I really like the guys who have a job and are able to fit this into their lives...instead of making it their lives.  

I was thinking...if I ever got off my butt and tried to get on ANW...what would my "name" be?  I've decided that I'd be Gero Ninja (I'm a gerontologist).  

Even though it's a silly game show, I still think it will be one of those shows that I'd be up for having as a family show when my kids get bigger.  I'd be happy to have my daughter and son see Meagan and Jessie Graff...or the Weatherman, etc.

[butterbean1]

1 hour ago, simplyme said:

Do we have confirmation that Caldiero was paid to appear, though?  I agree he isn't the most likeable guy, but I don't want to assume something is true without a good source.

I admit to a completely instinctive knee jerk dislike of Lance Pekus.  I realize it's not rational and he did nothing to deserve it, but something about him annoys me.  I try to keep that in mind when he's running.  (It might be genetic.  We saw a preview for the next qualifier during this one, which Lance is in, and SimplyDad made some comment about "That guy again?")

I like Lance, but think they "cowboy" thing has been beat to death.  He competed on the All Stars show and they had him do the rope climb, which was just stupid.  Dude was sloooooow and lost by a mile.

I understand your knee jerk reaction to Lance because I had the same reaction to Isaac last year.  The guy just rubbed me the wrong way and seemed like a total douchebag.  To find out (from what I have read thus far about him) that my suspicions were correct.  Apparently, he hates Geoff Britten (according to Geoff) and thinks that Britten stole his spotlight. He told Geoff that he ruined his life.  Not sure what that is all about.  He also dumped his group, the Wolfpack, that he was a part of once he won his money.  So it turns out he is an asshole in real life.  I'm glad he's not participating this year.  Let him take his million and be on with his life.  I apparently am not the only one that didn't like the guy.  I wish Geoff had won.  He wouldn't have been such a sore winner and seems to have better sportsmanship than Isaac.

The other guy that rubs me the wrong way is that "Adonis" guy Rob Murosky (the "weatherman's" cousin).  Another guy that you just know is a total douche in real life.

[ClareWalks]

10 minutes ago, butterbean1 said:

 

The other guy that rubs me the wrong way is that "Adonis" guy Rob Murosky (the "weatherman's" cousin).  Another guy that you just know is a total douche in real life.

I tweeted a season or two ago that Rob had skinny calves, and holy shit. His supporters (several of them said they were cousins of his) ripped my ass apart. I wonder how they reacted to people who were way meaner than what I said.

[Chaos Theory]

I was hoping Geoff would win too but I don't get nice things so I am not surprised he didn't.  He actually seems like a nice guy while Calderio came off like a douche.  Oh well.

I enjoyed this one better then the last one but still not as good as LA.  Glad at least one woman made it.  I was impressed with the guy with one leg.  Not impressed by any of the race car drivers.

I think my favorite was that guy who was getting instructions from his wife.  I thought that was hilarious.   

If anyone gets a wild card during this one I would want it to be the woman who calls herself the beast....so close.

[simplyme]

1 hour ago, Chaos Theory said:

I was impressed with the guy with one leg.  Not impressed by any of the race car drivers.

I was seriously impressed by the man with one leg, though it was a bit hard to watch.  I was tense for him.  

I just laughed when I realized the race car drivers were there.  Some of them seem to have a good sense of humor (and I knew who 3 out of 4 were!), but I knew they'd be going out fast.  I liked how the female commentator tried to get Danica Patrick to say she'd do this next year and Danica laughed and pretty much politely said hell no.  (Although she does have a gymnastics background, so depending on the obstacles, she might do better than some of the other drivers if she practiced.  In theory, because I don't think she has any interest in becoming a ninja.)

[ClareWalks]

Is it terrible that I thought "there's no way a guy with one leg is getting up the warped wall?" He did amazing, of course.

[slf]

11 hours ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

I bet Kacy gets an appearance fee and expenses ... Otherwise, I seriously doubt she would show up at EVERY city qualifier. And if NBC is making money (it must since it now repeats the segments on both NBC and Esquire), there's no reason why Caldiero shouldn't get an athlete's share too. This isn't college football. 

Good for him.

Well, appearing is good for business; she and Brent Steffenson run a ninja gym. Also she's considered an actual draw for the show, regardless of some of the online backlash against her. Several female contestants have said they tried out for this show because of her (and ANW is trying to recruit more women), and I read that hashtags for her like #MightyKacy have repeatedly trended globally.

But this isn't professional football either. It's a game show* like Jeopardy which also doesn't pay it's contestants to compete. Is it realistic to expect ANW to pay contestants for competing in, for example, the qualifiers? The majority of contestants wipe out within three obstacles (the men were most likely to go down on the quintuplets!). How much should they pay someone who was chosen based on a video, takes two steps and flops into the water? 

*As a game show it's closer to a reality show than a sport. So much more goes into something being a sport than just people competing physically. This show recruits people they know can't win because they think it will make for great tv. Contestants are chosen as much for personality and looks (and, I suspect, personal stories) as they are for their physical capabilities. On this game show you can fail and still advance so long as you have a good enough time. If this were football Caldiero wouldn't be the winner and wouldn't have a million dollars. He fell on at least one of the courses, IIRC. I'm pretty sure Britten didn't fall on any of them.

9 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

Calling thus a sport is debatable.  I get why people don't want to.  Before it can become a legitamite sport it needs to get out of NBC's hands which has a real incentive to make the courses so hard no one wins.   The courses need to be tough but stable before this can be a legitamite sport which NBC doesn't really want.

This and then some. There's no regulation whatsoever, really. 

It just seems weird to me. I was reading a post online about the contestants getting paid, someone was saying they thought it was sad Britten got nothing for finishing the course (especially since he didn't get the rest time Caldiero got). Anyway, in the comments section [someone claiming to be] Drew Dreschel showed up and said he wished they got paid just to compete, regardless of winning, because he wants to be able to do it full-time. Now I don't know if that was really him or not but other ANW contestants have said something similar and it just strikes me as...weird. "I want to do obstacle courses all the time so someone should pay me, even if I lose!" They like parkouring off floating blocks and stuff and think someone should pay them to do that, even if they lose (and badly). I think travel expenses should be covered, and I think a small payout for completing a course, or whatever, makes sense. But that's not what a lot of these competitors wants.

Edited June 15, 2016 by slf

[butterbean1]

3 hours ago, ClareWalks said:

I tweeted a season or two ago that Rob had skinny calves, and holy shit. His supporters (several of them said they were cousins of his) ripped my ass apart. I wonder how they reacted to people who were way meaner than what I said.

have you ever noticed that Matt Isman makes subtle jabs at him.  Like you can tell Matt thinks he's a douche, too.  I mean he has to talk the guy up as he does all the contestants, but he always manages to flow a jab or two in there. 

Also, it annoys me how "intense" he gets when he's competing.  It's like he's trying too hard.

He cut his hair last season and I actually think he looked better with the longer hair, even though he was obnoxious about it.

[kitticup]

I have no issue with ANW paying Kacy to make appearances at all city finals.  Kacy wasn't just the first woman up the warp wall.  If that was all she did, then I think she would get the same level of attention as Megan.  Kacy completed a hard city finals that most men failed at and that I thought was physically impossible for someone her size to complete.  I was so angry when I saw the course because it did not seem possible, yet she did it.  And, that is what made her a SuperStar.  She rocked and no other woman has completed a final course yet.

Megan was the first woman to complete the spider jump because she was given a wild card, unlike Kacy who earned her spot in Vegas.  Kacy had perfect form but it was physically impossible for her to nail that jump.  If the course was adjustable so that distance and heights were portioned based on a person's height.  I think only a handful of the contestants - the Weatherman, Kevin Bull, Flip and maybe a few others-- would be able to go as far.  A 5'8" person would have to face a 15.8 ft warped wall.  ANW favors taller athletes.

Kacy inspired women to become ninjas.  She also inspired kids who could see someone small do the impossible; so maybe they could too.  She has been good for ANW.  

As for the Wolfpack, I am glad Isaac is not competing whatever the reason. I don't  like Wolfpack.  They take themselves too seriously and are not fun to watch.  

About this episode: It is much improved over last week's.  I felt so bad for the Strager family.  You can tell the illness is taking a heavy toll on the family.  His run was not the joyous affirmation of life like last year.  The wife seems to be in a lot more pain and struggling.  It's so sad about the kids.  I hope they only found the markers and the disease  has not been triggered yet so there might be time to find a cure.  

I don't like the rolling log.  It's too dangerous.

Edited June 15, 2016 by kitticup
Typos

[slf]

1 hour ago, ClareWalks said:

Is it terrible that I thought "there's no way a guy with one leg is getting up the warped wall?" He did amazing, of course.

No, not terrible. Realistic. And he basically said as much, you know? He made it very clear in his segment and post-run interview that he didn't come to win, he came to compete, to show that he could. Which he did and like you said, he was amazing, a true competitor.

[Quilt Fairy]

1 hour ago, kitticup said:

I don't like the rolling log.  It's too dangerous

It also adds an element of dizziness that none of the other 2nd obstacles do. It seems fundamentally unfair even given that each city has a totally different course.

[SanLynn]

Yeah I felt bad for several of the competitors including Megan who had to do that little spin the other way thing after getting off the rolling log. For an obstacle that doesn't necessarily look all that dangerous I feel like it really could be.

I love Megan and am so glad she made it up the warped wall again. I like how supportive everyone is of each other, especially the women competitors. When they did the all star and skills competition you could see Kacy and Megan holding hands during the warped wall skills contest. Maybe it's all for show but it really does seem like they enjoy each other's company and I love that.

I'm sad that Noah Kaufman wasn't asked back as he's the one member of the Wolfpack I actually like (aside from Megan of course). Ian Dory's okay I guess but Brian Arnold pisses me off. I was happy not to have watch his run tonight.

I certainly won't miss Isaac Caldiero. Never liked him either and based on some of the things I'm reading it sounds like I wasn't far off base in my opinion of him.

[Fukui San]

2 hours ago, slf said:

It just seems weird to me. I was reading a post online about the contestants getting paid, someone was saying they thought it was sad Britten got nothing for finishing the course (especially since he didn't get the rest time Caldiero got). Anyway, in the comments section [someone claiming to be] Drew Dreschel showed up and said he wished they got paid just to compete, regardless of winning, because he wants to be able to do it full-time. Now I don't know if that was really him or not but other ANW contestants have said something similar and it just strikes me as...weird. "I want to do obstacle courses all the time so someone should pay me, even if I lose!" They like parkouring off floating blocks and stuff and think someone should pay them to do that, even if they lose (and badly). I think travel expenses should be covered, and I think a small payout for completing a course, or whatever, makes sense. But that's not what a lot of these competitors wants.

 

I mean, why wouldn't someone doing this NOT want to get paid for their efforts?  This is entertainment for NBC, a business vehicle in which they get hours of programming revenue for a relative pittance of a budget. The competitors are the product. If you fail on the third stage of the finals you've provided NBC with hours of usable footage and have gotten paid either nothing or very little.They have to train a ridiculous amount to be able to have a chance to win.  Why wouldn't they want to be paid for it?  The 500th best baseball player in the world gets a very comfortable salary, even if he's terrible for a major leaguer.  Why shouldn't the top 10 or 20 or 50 or so Ninja Warriors?  I'm sure that scrub baseball player loves the game a lot too, but would rather be paid than not paid, all things being equal.

The course is arbitrarily difficult.  It could be made so difficult that no one could pass it in 100 years, or so easy that multiple people would win every year.  Why should clearing this arbitrary hurdle be the basis for getting paid when the show makes money, presumably, whether someone wins it all or not? 

Let's imagine this scenario. Some other TV network comes up with a Ninja Warrior knockoff show in which people clear obstacle courses. Instead of one winner it's more of a league-like structure, and all the competitors are paid a living, but unspectacular, wage of $40,000 a year with bonuses for performance but without the one huge jackpot. If that became a viable option for current and future competitors, you'd see this show would have to consider paying at least the most popular competitors some guaranteed money so that they don't jump ship at the first opportunity.

As it is, if I were in charge of the franchise and given no direct competitors on the horizon, I'd still set up a system in which competitors are rewarded for advancing in a transparent way. City finalists get this much.  Stage 1 of the finals gets this much. Stage 2 gets this much, etc.  "Last Man Standing" gets this much. I don't think they'll be able to keep up the "Beat the entire course or be paid nothing" thing forever.

A note about the actual course. The Rolling Log is a venerable obstacle, but I've never seen the competitors with the legs whipping around like I have in this iteration.  I think the handholds were deeper and there were no footholds. Usually they fall off completely if they lose the feet.

[slf]

3 hours ago, kitticup said:

I have no issue with ANW paying Kacy to make appearances at all city finals.  Kacy wasn't just the first woman up the warp wall.  If that was all she did, then I think she would get the same level of attention as Megan.  Kacy completed a hard city finals that most men failed at and that I thought was physically impossible for someone her size to complete.  I was so angry when I saw the course because it did not seem possible, yet she did it.  And, that is what made her a SuperStar.  She rocked and no other woman has completed a final course yet.

Megan was the first woman to complete the spider jump because she was given a wild card, unlike Kacy who earned her spot in Vegas.  Kacy had perfect form but it was physically impossible for her to nail that jump.  If the course was adjustable so that distance and heights were portioned based on a person's height.  I think only a handful of the contestants - the Weatherman, Kevin Bull, Flip and maybe a few others-- would be able to go as far.  A 5'8" person would have to face a 15.8 ft warped wall.  ANW favors taller athletes.

See, when people ask me on other boards if I ever feel embarrassed that the women "don't do as well" this always come to mind. The answer is: no. I'm not supportive of the women just because I am a woman too (which isn't invalid). I support them because many of them do not have the height, weight, or wingspan for many of these obstacles. Someone at least 5'8 with a good physique (most of the men who've made it into the finals have been about 5'8 to 5'11) is going to make it up the wall much easier than someone 5'4 or under (on the show they always say Kacy is 5'0 but virtually every other source lists her as 4'11, which I believe). And Kacy would have to buff the eff up to have the kind of upper body strength of Kevin Bull or even Brent. Just realistically the strongest woman on this show will never be as a strong as the strongest man, and with the majority of obstacles relying on upper body strength means those obstacles are easier for the men. I mean, if we can say honestly that it is harder for the women to do these courses then we can admit it's easier for the men. They could make the courses adjustable to some degree and that would be fairer. They could also have more diverse obstacles (one of the theories as to why so many men wiped out on the quintuplets is because their center of gravity is higher; ours is lower so more women cleared that obstacle despite many of them barely being taller than the boards they were jumping onto, lol, and the space between the boards being more difficult for the women. While the floating steps are different, and like with the quintuplets some women have wiped out on them, it's still mostly men who struggle with them).

Edited June 15, 2016 by slf

[simplyme]

2 hours ago, Fukui San said:

I mean, why wouldn't someone doing this NOT want to get paid for their efforts

Well, sure.  There are lots of things I'd love for someone to pay me to do. :)

But realistically they're only going to get paid by NBC if one of two scenarios occurs.

1. They successfully make it up Mt. M the fastest.

2. The amount of free, good talent drops to the point that NBC can't get enough people of sufficient caliber to do the course.

Right now there's a surfeit of would-be ninjas.  NBC has plenty of people who want to be on the show and are willing to for free.  They aren't going to pay anyone until that pool dries up or it becomes apparent that the pool that's available has insufficient talent to be interesting.  Then they might offer to pay to encourage applicants of a higher caliber.

But right now?  They don't need to, so it's a show producer's market.  Until that changes, if ninjas want to make money off ANW, they'll have to figure out how to parlay the publicity into money--which a number have done, I suspect.

I guess a third reason NBC could pay would be if someone managed to sue them over something, but I imagine the waivers for this are god awful.

Edited June 15, 2016 by simplyme
Typo and clarity

[mlp]

Add me to the group that thinks Isaac Caldiero is a douche.  I always thought he was a little strange and thought he always looked like he needed to bathe and wash his hair a lot more often.  Based upon the comments above, he's a bigger jerk than I thought and I'm glad he's gone.

In contrast, Geoff Britten (who was truly the first person up Mt. M.) seems to be a very nice guy.  It must have been hard for him to stand there watching Isaac climb knowing a million dollars was on the line.  When he lost, he behaved like a gentleman.  Then he came back for Team Ninja Warrior and had a good time.  I do think he should have been awarded something for his accomplishment even though Isaac did it a tiny bit faster.

I wonder why Noah Kaufman wasn't asked back.  I wasn't crazy about him but he seemed to do fairly well most of the time and he'd been participating for years. 

I was on the edge of my seat watching Meagan run the course.  I just love her so I was thrilled when she made it up the wall, especially since she's short and the wall is now higher.  I'd love to see Meagan and Jesse and Michelle Warnky all complete the city finals.

[slf]

7 hours ago, Fukui San said:

I mean, why wouldn't someone doing this NOT want to get paid for their efforts?  This is entertainment for NBC, a business vehicle in which they get hours of programming revenue for a relative pittance of a budget. The competitors are the product. If you fail on the third stage of the finals you've provided NBC with hours of usable footage and have gotten paid either nothing or very little.They have to train a ridiculous amount to be able to have a chance to win.  Why wouldn't they want to be paid for it?  The 500th best baseball player in the world gets a very comfortable salary, even if he's terrible for a major leaguer.  Why shouldn't the top 10 or 20 or 50 or so Ninja Warriors?  I'm sure that scrub baseball player loves the game a lot too, but would rather be paid than not paid, all things being equal.

What is the budget for this show, anyway?

I don't know that the competitors are the product, per se. I mean, this isn't baseball, basketball, or football. If players for a football team tried hard, played hard, but couldn't put a single point on the board and ultimately lost the game - every game for six years - would people watch? I think the answer is no. But people watched for seven years before anyone actually won this show. Why? For the same reason people watch Survivor, Jeopardy, etc., the experience, the concept. If Caldiero couldn't compete on the show anymore I don't think it would affect ratings at all. Ditto the other veteran contestants, even draws like Kacy.

I appreciate that many of them train hard, even give up their jobs, but they don't have to. Quitting your job, which is extreme and ill-advised, isn't going to improve your odds. And if they want to get paid regardless of whether or not they win, what does it matter how hard they train? This is a game show. It wasn't meant to be a Serious Athletic Thing. A lot of the guys want it to be that because they'd rather do the rolling log and get paid a lot of money for it than work a 9 to 5. I'd rather get paid to make gifs for Tumblr then to have to actually work but I'm not going to and I don't see why I should.

7 hours ago, Fukui San said:

The course is arbitrarily difficult.  It could be made so difficult that no one could pass it in 100 years, or so easy that multiple people would win every year.  Why should clearing this arbitrary hurdle be the basis for getting paid when the show makes money, presumably, whether someone wins it all or not? 

If the show makes money regardless of someone winning then why should the contestants get paid just to compete? The obstacles, the narratives, are the stars, ultimately. If the contestants skill level doesn't actually contribute to the success of the show, if you could replace any of them with someone else, then why should they get paid just to show up? Top sports players are paid big bucks because they have an actual affect on their team's performance; they can help a team win and make an ungodly amount of money in the process (and for the city they're based in). 
 

7 hours ago, Fukui San said:

As it is, if I were in charge of the franchise and given no direct competitors on the horizon, I'd still set up a system in which competitors are rewarded for advancing in a transparent way. City finalists get this much.  Stage 1 of the finals gets this much. Stage 2 gets this much, etc.  "Last Man Standing" gets this much. I don't think they'll be able to keep up the "Beat the entire course or be paid nothing" thing forever.

Whoever wins a course gets a payment, it's two grand I think. But you have to win it, you can't just complete it, which is why so many of these guys are running at breakneck speed. It's just not as much money as they want. As I said in my post, I don't oppose them receiving payment or having their travel expenses covered. But Caldiero wanted to get paid just to compete and it sounds from what I've read that he isn't the only one. So if I live near where they're filming and I send in a convincing tape and get invited on (or miraculously get chosen from the line), but I fall halfway through the floating steps, I get to take a $2000 bath? Don't over 500 people end up competing in the qualifiers? 

Edited June 15, 2016 by slf

[SophiaD]

Count me on team anti-Caldiero.  I was so disgusted when he won last year, I haven't been able to watch the finals since.  Too bad the first guy to become an "American Ninja Warrior" is so unlikable.  I was really rooting for Geoff Britten, who seems like a complete sweetie.  Imagine being the first person to complete the course and getting *nothing*.

I'm pretty sure that either Jessie or Meagan will complete a city final one of these years, if not this year.  Michelle Warnkey almost did it last year, too.  So far, anyway, the courses seem a lot more balanced.  Of course, the really dreadful, unbalanced courses didn't really appear until the city finals last year.  

I hope a whole bunch of women make it to finals this year, including Jessie, Meagan, Michelle *and* Kacy, and some others we haven't seen yet.  I love watching the little girls' faces when they run.  It's great to see.

[Quilt Fairy]

3 hours ago, mlp said:

I wonder why Noah Kaufman wasn't asked back.  I wasn't crazy about him but he seemed to do fairly well most of the time and he'd been participating for years.

I never cared for him or the Wolf Pack very much ( too much testosterone for me), but I will say I gave him high marks for the time one guy dislocated his shoulder and he came forward and popped it back in.

[slf]

On 6/15/2016 at 1:58 AM, Quilt Fairy said:

I never cared for him or the Wolf Pack very much ( too much testosterone for me), but I will say I gave him high marks for the time one guy dislocated his shoulder and he came forward and popped it back in.

Whoa, I'm gonna have to find that on Youtube. He and Ian Dory seem like the least douchey members of the 'Wolf Pack' but at the end of the day these grown men call themselves a wolf pack and howl at each other in public*. (Like Douche King Leonardo DiCaprio and his equally douchey friends do now, they were actually howling at the Oscars. They used to call themselves the Pussy Posse.)

*Though the times I've seem Kaufman do it he honestly just seemed to be having fun and looked like a dork.

On 6/14/2016 at 3:42 PM, butterbean1 said:

I like Lance, but think they "cowboy" thing has been beat to death.  He competed on the All Stars show and they had him do the rope climb, which was just stupid.  Dude was sloooooow and lost by a mile.

Yeah, the schtick has gotten old though he does seem nice. I feel like if he wore a shirt and lost the hat during his segments it might be less annoying to me (and I'm from Texas so I'm used to cowboy hats). 

Edited June 16, 2016 by slf

[Lantern7]

I imagine the walk-on line to be a breeding ground for gimmicks. A grown man would probably wear a "BEASTIALITY NINJA" t-shirt if it could shave a few weeks from the wait time.

Didn't know Isaac would be a no-show this season. Maybe the Pack is being marginalized as a result?

Just checking . . . tonight's episode is a repeat of this one, right?

[butterbean1]

I think Kacy makes it through the first round.  they seem to be promoting her and I don't think they would do that if she failed.

[Aliconehead]

Count me as another member of Caldiero is a douche nozzle.  I wanted Britton to win, because my goodness he is a cutie and those forearms, those things are impressive.  Noah never bothered me because at least he has a JOB that is not obstacle course runner.  Those people bug. because you know they are being supported by those in his life. 

[slf]

2 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Just checking . . . tonight's episode is a repeat of this one, right?

Yep, a repeat, though my guide says it's of the season premiere.

[innocuouspuff]

16 hours ago, slf said:

No, not terrible. Realistic. And he basically said as much, you know? He made it very clear in his segment and post-run interview that he didn't come to win, he came to compete, to show that he could. Which he did and like you said, he was amazing, a true competitor.

It occurred to me when Zach was facing down the springboard on the third obstacle that he hadn't necessarily planned for getting that far. Amazing to watch him do so though.

The "should amateur athletes get compensated" discussion is an old one and idk if I think there's a definite answer. One thing that comes up every Olympics is the difficulty of training to stay competitive when you also have to work full time. It's not strictly a matter of wah, I don't like my job. Halfway through the Summer Games when we have fallen down the medal count the Canadian pundits start handwringing about how it's cause we don't support our athletes enough. And by support, they mean money. The argument could be made that if NBC wants to keep the performers doing ever harder course stunts for our entertainment and ad dollars, it's in their interests to keep training for those abilities feasible.

But as long as lots of people are willing to spend their own money chasing the reality competition dragon, of course they don't have to.

[AuntieDiane6]

Quote

The argument could be made that if NBC wants to keep the performers doing ever harder course stunts for our entertainment and ad dollars, it's in their interests to keep training for those abilities feasible.

But as long as lots of people are willing to spend their own money chasing the reality competition dragon, of course they don't have to.

Of course we don't REALLY know that they don't get any money ... Dancing with the Stars winners are always "competing for the Mirror Ball Trophy" but the reality of the cash payments has come out in recent years.  Every competitor gets $5,000 a week for the pre-show practice weeks, $10,000 a week for each week they last after week 4 (or something like that) and $25,000 after they reach Top 5.... The winner gets $250,000.  

And I find it difficult to believe that any Indy 500 winner shows up just for the fun of competing. 

[Kromm]

You know, I've decided I REALLY dislike how the announcers keep creating "historical" moments out of totally arbitrary things.  Who decided, for example. that it's "history" to get up the Warped Wall 3 times?  

On 6/15/2016 at 9:36 AM, Lantern7 said:

Didn't know Isaac would be a no-show this season. Maybe the Pack is being marginalized as a result?

I hope so. Megan Martin, who they won't even allow the formality of being part of the "Pack" even though she trains with them (shades of sexism Batman!) is the only one of them I can stand.

[Kromm]

On 6/15/2016 at 11:47 AM, butterbean1 said:

I think Kacy makes it through the first round.  they seem to be promoting her and I don't think they would do that if she failed.

I suppose. Eventually you think they phase out showing her and talking about her if she just kept tanking.

My guess is that a little bird whispered in her ear which qualifier course might be best suited to her skillset. I mean notice the way the top women are so nicely distributed among the different qualifiers? You know someone is basically telling them when and where to show up... Heck, and don't doubt for a minute that NBC is paying for the extra airfare and hotels to have certain Ninjas in the crowd on weeks when they AREN'T competing.

[ClareWalks]

14 hours ago, Kromm said:

You know, I've decided I REALLY dislike how the announcers keep creating "historical" moments out of totally arbitrary things.  Who decided, for example. that it's "history" to get up the Warped Wall 3 times?  

Probably the Guinness Records people. They would make a record out of ANYTHING. "He's the first person to skip one of the Quintuple Steps on four separate non-consecutive occasions on calendar years beginning with 201-!"