Lethal Weapon in the Media: "Well, I got news for you, Rog: I'm not crazy."

[bethster2000]

I look at this as Wayans' show.  He is the main star of the show and his family stories are infinitely more interesting to me than Riggs and the little boy playing baseball.  I like Clayne and I think Riggs can be hilarious, but I have to wonder if the show would be just fine without him.

Replacing him with another actor: BIG mistake.  Replacing him with a female: BIGGER mistake.

However, they could make Tom Lennon a series regular and I would do a jig of glee.

[WendyCR72]

27 minutes ago, bethster2000 said:

I look at this as Wayans' show.  He is the main star of the show and his family stories are infinitely more interesting to me than Riggs and the little boy playing baseball.  I like Clayne and I think Riggs can be hilarious, but I have to wonder if the show would be just fine without him.

Replacing him with another actor: BIG mistake.  Replacing him with a female: BIGGER mistake.

However, they could make Tom Lennon a series regular and I would do a jig of glee.

I respect your POV here, but for me (and me alone, to be clear!), the movies and series were, for me, the buddy relationship first, Riggs second, and then Murtaugh and his family stuff. No slight to Damon Wayans or Danny Glover, as they were/are vital for said buddy relationship. But Martin Riggs was definitely more interesting to me as a whole.

But if Clayne Crawford wants to ruin his reputation/big role, I think there are many actors who can be Martin Riggs. Crawford ironically did just that filling Mel Gibson's shoes. It's just too bad his offscreen behavior seems to mimic that of his movie counterpart (attitude wise, not the other unsavory stuff).

But no to a female. Lethal Weapon is/was about two guys. Not everything needs to be PC. Leave it at two guys, however this shakes out. Which I hope doesn't include cancellation.

If both Bewitched and the original Roseanne could recast roles back in the day, so can this one.

[Happy Harpy]

7 hours ago, Anela said:

http://deadline.com/2018/04/lethal-weapon-clayne-crawford-damon-wayans-turmoil-bad-blood-1202375855/

The cynic in me tells me the producers convinced the studio to renew the show with Clayne Crawford, after the idea of a recast was massively rejected.

[MissLucas]

Well, this gets better and better. The cynic in me comes to a different conclusion - the story was leaked in order to test the waters for a possible recast. But they also need a firmer hand to steer the ship in general, sounds as if there's more than one problem on set. (Somewhere the team behind Rush Hour is silently having a laugh.)

[JackONeill]

4 hours ago, Happy Harpy said:

The cynic in me tells me the producers convinced the studio to renew the show with Clayne Crawford, after the idea of a recast was massively rejected.

Sounds like there’s fault to be flung in every direction, from the top all the way down. It sounds like the network sent the kids out to play with little to no supervision!

Problem is, things are so tainted now it’s going to be near-impossible to carry forward with everyone still in place. Something willl have to be done, I’m afraid.

Without knowing any details, I’m now of the opinion (for whatever it’s worth)(and this is substantially different from where I was yesterday on this) that this isn’t (solely) Clayne’s fault. (Not to say some of the things alleged — his screaming — didn’t happen. Anybody who’s worked on shows—especially night-shoots and with firearms—knows tensions run high.)

Oh, and one other thing, I’ve been noticing that something’s been “off” on this show. To me, and this is just my opinion, there has seemed to be tension between the two leads all season long.

Edited April 25, 2018 by JackONeill

[Dixie Sugarbaker]

The lawyer in me wonders if the stunt conditions are as dangerous as Crawford claims that there are potential lawsuits that they need to shut down. Scare everyone from testifying to make it go away.. This has to be more than just a temper tantrum on set and so far that is all that we know.

Edited April 25, 2018 by Dixie Sugarbaker
Edited because my spell check is apparently foul-mouthed.

[JackONeill]

19 minutes ago, Dixie Sugarbaker said:

The lawyer in me wonders if the stunt conditions are as dangerous as Crawford claims that there are potential lawsuits that they need to shit down. Scare everyone from testifying to make it go away.. This has to be more than just a temper tantrum on set and so far that is all that we know.

Either Clayne said this or I picked it up from somewhere else (I cannot remember), but it sounds as though management (in whatever form that is) was absent from set a lot. Sets have gotten a lot more "particular" and careful about management of dangerous stunts (guns, explosions, etc). Remember the recent death of the stunt man on The Walking Dead set. (No, I'm not suggesting someone died on the Lethal Weapon set.)

Personally, from what I'm reading it sounds like the parents let the kids run free AND a couple of the kids aren't playing well. 

I do sense a bit of a smoke screen here. There is something more going on, but I think it's more of a personality thing. This is more than the Charles Gibson-Criminal Minds thing. (I think.)

But speaking of Criminal Minds—they have a large cast and can afford to lose someone, even a lead. Lethal Weapon has, when you get right down to it, two leads. If you lose one of them I don't see how the show can recover. Oopsy-doodle!!!!

[jewel21]

Both in the movies, and on this show, Riggs is my favourite character. I would not watch the show without him in it. And Riggs was the main reason I watched the movies.  I also don't think I could do a replacement, unless they found someone really amazing and Mel Gibson- like. 

[kassygreene]

This nasty state of affairs is explaining a lot about what has been so freaking off with season 2.  A change of writers explains how we went from the awesome pokes at / tributes to the original movies (there was at least one movie callback in every episode) to this rather wooden season 2.  Riggs & Murtaugh are not the friends / brothers that they were before.  And if Wayons is the more important (as in higher paid) "star", then that explains why Murtaugh continues to be a gomer - Wayans must think it works well.

For me, a large part of what made season 1 great was the character interaction, both in the named characters and the backgrounders, especially the precinct cops, who were scripted and staged like the precinct cops in the movies - familiar faces and characters (the scene where Trish comes storming in, and the cops, who were interacting around a piece of business that was Murtaugh-driven, spotted her and immediately went back to work, not quite hands-in-pockets and innocent whistling, but that sort of thing - I really loved that).

And beyond absentee management, I read somewhere neither lead currently has an agent - so no one to step in and take over the personnel problem management.

It's a shame.  I've reached the point where I don't care if it is renewed or not, because the show I came for ended at the end of season 1.

Edited April 25, 2018 by kassygreene

[ohjoy]

Pretty much the only two changes for Season 2 that I've enjoyed are Riggs getting closure on his wife's murder and the greater inclusion of Avery in the activities. Nothing else has been really great or even fun about this season, but I had assumed it was just a sophomore slump, and was just hoping that the show made it to Season 3 so there would be a chance to course-correct. I didn't realize just how badly the course-correct was needed.

[kaygeeret]

I also really enjoyed season one, but thought this season was 'sophomore slump'.

I do agree that the Murtagh story line is more interesting than the Riggs story.  I was getting sick of his angst at the end of last season and I am over all the traumatic flashbacks.  Te show this season is more about each separate story and not enough about the  partnership.

Sorry the actors took control, there needed to be an adult in the room.

It does sound to me as if the flashpoint was Crawford's direction/reaction to events in two episodes he directed.  Things apparently went bonkers from that point.

It was one of my favorite shows, but now it is "...nothing else is on so..."

[gibasi]

I agree with others that the best part of the show was the partnership and this season has had less of our two stars together.  I thought it was the writers and had no clue it's because Wayons and Crawford don't want to act together.  That is a shame.  I am a couple of episodes behind and wonder if I even want to catch up.  I don't know much about the business end of things but common sense tells me that a lot of you are right in that a firm hand to get everyone in line would have helped.  

[WendyCR72]

I did say recast in a post above, but then there is really no guarantee a Recast Riggs would get along with Wayans, etc., either. What this show needs is someone who doesn't take the usual actor-driven egomaniac shit and put both Wayans and Crawford on blast and tell them to get over themselves and do their jobs. Which, in this case, is a cop-buddy show at the root.

I don't care if Crawford and Wayans hate each other. Their jobs are to act like they do like each other That was the core of the whole movie franchise and this series. Not Riggs and/or Murtaugh on their own.

If neither one cares about that and won't do the roles justice, cancel this show.

[ParadoxLost]

11 hours ago, JackONeill said:

Either Clayne said this or I picked it up from somewhere else (I cannot remember), but it sounds as though management (in whatever form that is) was absent from set a lot. Sets have gotten a lot more "particular" and careful about management of dangerous stunts (guns, explosions, etc). Remember the recent death of the stunt man on The Walking Dead set. (No, I'm not suggesting someone died on the Lethal Weapon set.)

Personally, from what I'm reading it sounds like the parents let the kids run free AND a couple of the kids aren't playing well. 

I do sense a bit of a smoke screen here. There is something more going on, but I think it's more of a personality thing.

It does sound like a personality clash.  Crawford seems to be getting into everything.  He directs.  He wants more input into scripts.  I can see him getting overly, inappropriately passionate about the work to the point of ending up being reprimanded for his outbursts.  Wayans on the other hand doesn't even want to have table reads. 

Personalities clash and they no longer speak.  And production is inexperienced / loose enough that no one is managing the conflict.

I see a possibility that the 'actors' that came forward about being uncomfortable with Crawford being on set is actually Wayans and he basically said its him or me. 

In that scenario, Wayans is the bigger star and I could see the showrunners, if its beyond repairing, letting Crawford hang out to dry to keep Wayans on board in case renewal is possible with just Wayans.  Wayans may be at the point with the situation where he doesn't care whether its cancelled or Crawford is fired.  He's just done with it.

[DearEvette]

Basically it sounds like the guy who created the show, Miller, and is the showrunner, doesn't really know how to run a tv show.  They have the control of their set and environment.  Directors of tv shows are not like directors on a movie set.  Sure they are the 'boss' of that episode, but they come and go and many times they only have a couple of actual directing gigs under their belt.  Episodic tv directing sometimes works as a resume builder.  The showrunner and other high level EPs are the authority.

Reading between the lines, it sounds like Crawford had some anger issues even before the episode in question.  Having a director quit because of his outbursts sound somewhat like the early rumblings of what went down with Thomas Gibson on NCIS.  The stakes were much higher with that show because the it and he was massively more popular.  I am not saying he is totally to blame for the chaos behind the scenes, because obviously he isn't, but you don't get network mandated therapy for being 'passionate about safety.'

Also it sounds like that particular episode was particularly hazardous and possibly Crawford as a director, backed by an inept showrunner, didn't have as much control over the set as he should have.  Also, reading between the lines, it sounds like he does not have the disposition to be in charge if his go to emotion is anger.

Edited April 26, 2018 by DearEvette

[MissLucas]

I checked with IMDB and the episode in question is this week's 'Jesse's Girl'. So if there's on-screen fallout from that one we haven't seen it yet (unless of course the order of production is not similar to the order of airing).

[Dixie Sugarbaker]

They don’t need to cancel the show; they just need a good, mature show runner to run the show. This is a mess because there are no grownups in charge. 

 

And more Harper; always more Harper.

[nitrofishblue]

I have liked this show from the beginning. However, the change in the Murtaugh character started to turn me off to him. The writers turned him into a really silly overacted character. His relationship with his wife became over the top dumb.

[SnoGirl]

Well, after reading and seeing how its all being handled, I’m definitely being turned off by it all and have no desire to actually watch it anymore. I sometimes really hate when real life stuff leaks out about productions or actors/actresses bc its so hard to unsee or unhear. I want to watch a show to be entertained. 

And I’m an avid rewatcher. So when stuff comes out like this, I dont even want to go back and watch stuff before the fallout. Ugh. This show had such fun potential. 

[weathered1]

Wow. I had been wondering why on earth this show went so rapidly downhill this season, and why the lightness, charm, chemistry/rapport, and progress in all things that we saw last season were thrown out the window. I guess this explains it. 

I don't know what it is about actors on television the past few years, but it seems like actors' disputes with one another have been allowed to derail - or at least noticeably (and negatively) impact - numerous shows. I'm sure things of this nature have gone on since the birth of television, but between The Good Wife, Castle, NCIS, and now Lethal Weapon (to name just a few), this has gotten out of hand. It is the actors' jobs to, oh I don't know, act. If they don't like a scene partner, they are paid to act as though they do. All of this stuff leading to actors not filming together, wanting one another fired, not speaking, and the list goes on, is absolute garbage, imho. That this particular situation has gotten to the point where cancellation seems to be a very real possibility - and this comes after they have (in my view) thoroughly tanked this entire season - is ridiculous and inexcusable. 

That said, as others have mentioned, the fault doesn't just lie with an overly passionate, prone to outbursts actor, or with another actor whose head seems to be firmly implanted up his own posterior and whose ego basically sucks all of the oxygen out of the room - the powers that be, with the show, the network, etc. - are all to blame for this; none of them has done his or her job since things have deteriorated on that set to this extent. 

For what it's worth, I think there needs to be a sit down with all parties involved, authority from the higher ups needs to be asserted, and the showrunner, et. al., have to be held accountable and have to take control of things. If that won't or can't happen, then I say the show is done. Yes, a recast is possible (and it's happened on other shows), but this one was so utterly dependent upon the Riggs/Murtaugh dynamic last season, and with everything that's happened since.... I'm not sure a new partnership (between lead actors) could capture the necessary chemistry to not only keep people watching but also perhaps woo back those who have given up on the show. 

Either way, what a mess. What a shameful, utterly unnecessary mess. 

[MissLucas]

7 hours ago, weathered1 said:

I'm sure things of this nature have gone on since the birth of television, but between The Good Wife, Castle, NCIS, and now Lethal Weapon (to name just a few), this has gotten out of hand.

Yes, it's a noticeable trend and not a good one. I wonder if the increasing prestige of tv has anything to do with it. While not unheard of in tv history off-screen animosities were normally not allowed to take over a show - i.e. the people involved managed to keep their egos under control (Sex and the City comes to mind) or were told to do so. The great behind the scenes dramas were reserved for movie sets. 

I would like to know who leaked this thing. Nobody comes off looking particularly good - the show's future and plenty of jobs are in jeopardy now. 

(Of course this is not going to happen but I would enjoy watching a show featuring the B-team, Avery and Scorsese - those are all great characters. Unfortunately I can't figure out a way to keep Trish around without Roger.)

Edited April 28, 2018 by MissLucas

[JackONeill]

What’s interesting is that the Facebook ads in these few days for Lethal Weapon (I’m assuming sponsored/paid for by Fox) have featured Riggs NOT Murtugh. I’ve seen three different ads just in the last few days, which is odd in itself because I might only see one ad per week, and that’s episode specific. These “new” ads are character specific.  It’s like they’re supporting Riggs, and trying to get people to watch because of Riggs (again, these are character specific. They don’t mention the actor’s name, though they show a photo.)

[AnnaRose]

On 4/26/2018 at 5:51 PM, SweetTooth said:

You have to wonder who's leaking this stuff, because nobody in a position to be the grownup is reining it in and at least remotely trying to spin it.

Yes.  It's interesting that whoever leaked it seems to want to put all the blame on Clayne. 

I thought it was funny when I read the deadline article that the first comments were all about Wayans being a Diva, because that is exactly the feeling I got when reading the article:

Quote

I hear the incident happened on the second day of filming the episode, and production already had been behind because Wayans had called in sick the first day. Following the shrapnel incident, Wayans was sent home for the day and when he returned to work, he set limitations to what he was willing to do in the episode, even if it was in the script, including not holding a gun or running down stairs, citing safety concerns.

Lethal Weapon does not do table reads, allegedly upon star Wayans’ request. While that is not unheard of for drama series, it puts extra pressure on production and rehearsing scenes on the spot.

Really?  Yeesh!  That's ridiculous.

The set definitely needs to have some grown-ups in charge and to make sure safety issues are resolved.

I'm not a regular viewer, but I have watched some of it, and Riggs is the main reason.  I think the actor is great in the role.  He seems to be the major draw for the show, and maybe somebody else on set is butt-hurt over it.

Edited April 28, 2018 by AnnaRose

[DearEvette]

Honestly, that stuff about Wayans sounds small potatoes.  If that is the most that he has demanded he is the most low grade diva I've ever heard about.  He called in sick one day?  I could understand if he calls in chronically, but one day?  He had already been hurt during a shoot, enough that he had to be sent home by the production, so he had concerns about his own safety on the set.  The only account of whatever incident that resulted in him getting hit by shrapnel was from Crawford who took pains to downplay it.  But who knows how out of control that particular set was or the nature of how he got hurt.  Except for the table reads, it sounds like all the Wayans stuff in that articles is centered around that one particular shoot.  And if the table reads were an issue now wouldn't they have been an issue all throughout season one as well?  Even that sounds benign.  He requested, not demanded.  If they were such a big deal production would have insisted on them.  In contrast the Crawford stuff sounds more long term and habitual -- multiple reprimands, mandated therapy, causing a director to quit? 

Outside of what feels like a real lack of leadership, it just seems like the stuff reported of Wayans just sounds rather penny ante compared to what is being said of Crawford.

[Happy Harpy]

3 hours ago, DearEvette said:

In contrast the Crawford stuff sounds more long term and habitual -- multiple reprimands, mandated therapy, causing a director to quit?

Yeah, once you see past the spin, you're left with two contradictions.

1. Crawford had to relinquish part of his salary, follow therary etc. for a couple of benign incidents due to his passion for his craft.

2. Warner Bros and FOX were reached for comments before the story got public in its "blown out of proportion" version and didn't rectify the allegations with the "truth", didn't associate with or support Crawford's statement, whereas it goes against their financial interest.

My reaction: Sure, Jan.

Not saying that Wayans isn't a diva, and I have very little sympathy for him as a human being. But he didn't abuse anyone, so if there's a smear campaign I'd say it's directed at him.

[MissLucas]

Yeah, the general lack of comment is odd. You'd expect some sort of statement even if it's just diplomatic smoke-screens. Maybe the strategy is just to weather the storm?

[Happy Harpy]

1 hour ago, SweetTooth said:

But have they come out in support of anyone? Both actors are being smeared, the show is looking like a disorganized mess, and everyone is fearing for their jobs, yet nobody has  even come out and said, "These incidents happen on every set...we're all adults..." These would be generic statements not aimed particularly at "rescuing" either actor, but more the show as a whole.

I don't see how they could officially support Wayans, since he didn't commit any offense that would make their intervention relevant. They didn't have to reprimand him, order him to therapy nor had to  ask him to give up part of his salary. He's dragged in the mud for a rumored diva behavior, but it's and he's irrelevant to the actual and factual allegations: He was a victim of the lack of security onset, and had nothing to do with the abuse of a director and an AD, which are the two incidents that Crawford admitted to.

Indeed, the studio and network's interest would be to put down the fire in order to save the show. They know what happened: There were reprimands, a fine, so everything was documented. It would have been so easy, when they were reached for comments at first, to answer: "There were two incidents, they were dealt with and the idea that they endanger the show's survival is ludicrous". Crawford's statement was no rumor, so it would have been so easy to answer with same. Yet, they're keeping mum instead.

I do think that the studio (the show isn't owned and FOX doesn't particularly need it) would love to deal with the problem the way NBC and Wolf productions dealt with the anger management issues of Chicago PD's star; especially with the icy reception to the idea of a recast. They might be letting rumors fly now because they hope the whole thing will be swept under the rug.

Edited April 29, 2018 by Happy Harpy

[weathered1]

1 hour ago, Happy Harpy said:

I do think that the studio (the show isn't owned and FOX doesn't particularly need it) would love to deal with the problem the way NBC and Wolf productions dealt with the anger management issues of Chicago PD's star; especially with the icy reception to the idea of a recast. They might be letting rumors fly now because they hope the whole thing will be swept under the rug.

 

I can really see that being true. It's fascinating to me how all of this played out - it was all hush-hush, then all of a sudden a blind item, within a couple days it was confirmed, then Crawford's statement and the tidbits about Wayans. Why keep everything quiet only for it all to come out in very short order? Are they trying to avoid fan campaigns and the hue and cry to renew the show if they cancel it by throwing all of this out there as justification for ending it? Did they make it known that renewal will only happen if one of the leads is fired, so the influx of info was dueling smear campaigns (to a certain [arguable] extent) and/or a way to gauge which actor is more popular and how fans react to the notion of a recast?  Either way, it's both interesting and deeply stupid that the situation is what it is. 

Then, too, we have some cast members very, very recently saying nice things to/about Crawford - granted, it was for his birthday, but if he's so horrible, would they acknowledge him at all? As others have mentioned, Hilarie Burton seems pretty fond of him, and even if she didn't directly witness his behavior, she certainly would've heard about it. Given her experience with a hostile work environment in the past, one would think she wouldn't look too kindly on someone who was is currently fomenting just that kind of situation. 

That said, he's clearly screwed up big time and more than once, and I'm guessing far more has gone on than has been publicly acknowledged. In comparison, Wayans' behavior is egocentric (again, the degree is arguable), and I could see some cast and crew members not being overly fond it, especially when it comes to things like nixing their ability to do table reads. Is it possible that he's not a fan of the fact that Riggs is seen (by some) as the most popular character and that Crawford has gotten more and more involved behind the scenes? I can see that being true, too. 

The thing is, of the two, it would be far easier to recast Murtaugh, since with Riggs, they'd have to find someone who can juggle the edge, charm, rakishness, and emotionality, all while having that all-important rapport/chemistry with his costar. When they first cast these two, it was lightning in a bottle - I'm not at all sure they can do that again when it comes to recasting. It would actually probably be easier to recast both, and start the first episode of next season with two guys looking at a script, saying they can't believe that's how Scorsese sees them, and that he needs to pay better attention to them and start over. 

Anyway, I'm actually kind of bitter that this has happened. They gave us such a great first season, got us excited for the potential of things to come, and then all of this bad behavior just ruined it. Unbelievable.

[emma675]

1 hour ago, weathered1 said:

Anyway, I'm actually kind of bitter that this has happened. They gave us such a great first season, got us excited for the potential of things to come, and then all of this bad behavior just ruined it. Unbelievable.

Well said. I adored the first season and was really surprised at how disconnected and disjointed the second season was. All of this coming out is making sense of a lot of it for me. I'm disappointed in both men and the studio/producers for not reigning it all in before it blew up. I'll be curious to see if Hilarie Burton addresses any of it, she has prior experience with awful set situations and I don't see her being quiet about this if it's true.

Edited April 30, 2018 by emma675d

[dargosmydaddy]

1 hour ago, weathered1 said:

Then, too, we have some cast members very, very recently saying nice things to/about Crawford - granted, it was for his birthday, but if he's so horrible, would they acknowledge him at all?

In addition to the birthday Tweets, a bunch of cast-mates (including Keesha Sharp, Chandler Kinney, Jordana Brewster, and Kevin Rahm) had complimentary tweets for him when the episode he directed aired, which was after the story about his behavior broke.

[Happy Harpy]

7 hours ago, weathered1 said:

I can really see that being true. It's fascinating to me how all of this played out - it was all hush-hush, then all of a sudden a blind item, within a couple days it was confirmed, then Crawford's statement and the tidbits about Wayans. Why keep everything quiet only for it all to come out in very short order? Are they trying to avoid fan campaigns and the hue and cry to renew the show if they cancel it by throwing all of this out there as justification for ending it? Did they make it known that renewal will only happen if one of the leads is fired, so the influx of info was dueling smear campaigns (to a certain [arguable] extent) and/or a way to gauge which actor is more popular and how fans react to the notion of a recast?  Either way, it's both interesting and deeply stupid that the situation is what it is. 

Then, too, we have some cast members very, very recently saying nice things to/about Crawford - granted, it was for his birthday, but if he's so horrible, would they acknowledge him at all? As others have mentioned, Hilarie Burton seems pretty fond of him, and even if she didn't directly witness his behavior, she certainly would've heard about it. Given her experience with a hostile work environment in the past, one would think she wouldn't look too kindly on someone who was is currently fomenting just that kind of situation. 

That said, he's clearly screwed up big time and more than once, and I'm guessing far more has gone on than has been publicly acknowledged. In comparison, Wayans' behavior is egocentric (again, the degree is arguable), and I could see some cast and crew members not being overly fond it, especially when it comes to things like nixing their ability to do table reads. Is it possible that he's not a fan of the fact that Riggs is seen (by some) as the most popular character and that Crawford has gotten more and more involved behind the scenes? I can see that being true, too.

Hilarie Burton last filmed for the show last summer, whereas Crawford's behavior turned seriously volatile "in the recent months" according to Deadline. It can be, also, that Crawford is abusive towards those he sees as "little people", some crew members, while being all sugar and honey with actors. He wouldn't be the first one. The cast is afraid to lose their jobs, which is understandable, but it wouldn't be the first time either that it makes people willing to look the other way. They seem to be under gag order.

I agree, what was admitted might very well be the tip of this iceberg, which would explain the producers' silence. This is why, again, there is no smear campaign against Crawford. Facts pertaining to his behavior on set came to light.

My personal speculation. As I said above, FOX doesn't particularly need LW. It isn't owned so it won't bring them syndication money, they're going to air more football next year = less space for scripted shows, and creatively as well as ratings-wise, LW  is hitting a sophomore slump. If one lead becomes a liability (as in "lawsuits galore") they could cut their losses and drop the show. On the other hand, it's a big franchise so WB (owner, with syndication money in sight) managed to convince them to at least test the waters for a recast. That's why they both allowed the story to come out, but both with second thoughts. FOX meant to warn beforehand of a possible cancelation whereas WB hoped to use it as a warning for Crawford. The public wasn't receptive to the idea of a recast, and rumors deflecting his responsibility on the other lead and TPTB spread. So imo, FOX wants to cancel, and WB is trying to convince them to keep LW, probably with Crawford. I guess it will come down to $$$$. Upfronts for FOX are on May14th so the outcome should be known soon. 

Edited April 30, 2018 by Happy Harpy

[MissLucas]

Well, the chronology of events certainly seems to indicate that someone was having 'second thoughts'. The first Deadline article (23 April) put the blame on Crawford, it was followed by Crawford's apology (24 April)  and then by a second article painting a 'more nuanced' picture (24 April) indicating additional problems on set. If the first story was a warning shot for Crawford there was no need for the second one. Unless they wanted to soften blow - by throwing shade on his co-star and the show runner. Not exactly the best way to ease tensions.

I don't think recasting is an option. It's always a risky undertaking especially when it happens so late (recasting after a pilot or the first couple of episodes is a different story). In addition it's not just one member of an ensemble cast but one of the leads in a classical buddy cop set-up. They could try to write out Riggs (have him ride into the sunset with Molly) and bring in a completely new partner for Murtaugh but that strikes me just as another high-risk solution - and the show's not big enough to warrant the amount of gambling involved in both scenarios. 

Edited April 30, 2018 by MissLucas

[Happy Harpy]

2 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Well, the chronology of events certainly seems to indicate that someone was having 'second thoughts'. The first Deadline article (23 April) put the blame on Crawford, it was followed by Crawford's apology (24 April)  and then by a second article painting a 'more nuanced' picture (24 April) indicating additional problems on set. If the first story was a warning shot for Crawford there was no need for the second one. Unless they wanted soften blow - by throwing shade on his co-star and the show runner. Not exactly the best way to ease tensions.

You bet there was no use for the second story. I don't think this one comes from the same source at all.

I categorized it as "rumors", as opposed to the first allegations which were supported by facts like a fine, mandatory therapy etc. "Nuanced picture", it said...LOL. It was throwing about everyone under the bus (Wayans, Crawford's ex-agent -who, if I believe the article, parted ways with him after the last incident, the showrunner, the production in general) in order to minimize Crawford's role.  He's the only one who benefits from this second article. I can't imagine for a second that a network and a studio, in their right minds, would agree to sacrifice their public image and their business credit in order to spare one actor's reputation. There's no way it comes from them and something tells me they must be pretty pissed off to be made look incompetent and unable to master their own production.

Thing is, there was nothing WB could do at this point -in case they couldn't support Crawford because the allegations against him are true. They could deny the rumors of mismanagement on set when reached for comments a second time, to protect the production. But it would have made Crawford look like an ass/drawn attention on his "antics" again, impossible if they're trying to save the show with him on board. So they had to stay silent anyway.

Imo, they can't recast Murtaugh more than they can recast Riggs. I'm not sure who's the more popular, or if there's one since for me, they're two sides of the same coin, but it doesn't matter anyway. Wayans was hurt on set, allegedly because of Crawford's carelessness, and he'd be the one fired? His grandkids would be set for life with the lawsuit he'd win.

Edited April 30, 2018 by Happy Harpy

[MissLucas]

Formulating a long-winded apology accepting all the blame while at the same time leaking a story that will diffuse said blame? That's quite a Machiavellian move ;) I rather go with Hanlon's razor: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity - i.e. someone deciding to go for damage control without thinking too much or checking in with TPTB first.

 

I haven't seen any discussions to recast Murtaugh - that would be odd since Wayans is the bigger name and rumors notwithstanding not the main cause for all the problems.

[Happy Harpy]

3 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Formulating a long-winded apology accepting all the blame while at the same time leaking a story that will diffuse said blame? That's quite a Machiavellian move ;) I rather go with Hanlon's razor: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity - i.e. someone deciding to go for damage control without thinking too much or checking in with TPTB first.

Imo, his apology was half-assed, first and foremost. Examples: "I reacted with anger over working conditions that did not feel safe"= "I acted out of selfless care/I had to protect my safety". Justifies/excuses his behavior. "I take responsibility because I was in charge of the set"= "I'm not directly responsible for the incident". Self-explanatory.  He invoked his "passion for doing good work" as the root of his problem. Justifies/excuses his behavior.

"I behaved badly. I have no excuse. I hope I can prove that I learned my lesson." = Accepting full responsibility. No need to be long-winded.

I want to stress that I don't have anything against C.Crawford. It's just that the story as he tells it doesn't add up with the facts. I have a very hard time believing that, were a guest director and AD responsible for unsafe work conditions, WB would have reprimanded their star who stood up for his own or everyone's safety instead. And no way in hell, or seven, they'd have financially settled with one of them.

I don't know who's the source of the second article. I'm certain it isn't the studio or network, and I obviously agree that the studio wasn't consulted beforehand ("they couldn't deny"). I see that it tries to minimize Crawford's responsibility by throwing the blame at other people. If I had to guess, I'd say it's someone of the cast and crew who is/are afraid of losing their jobs and thought that diluting responsibilities would help keeping Crawford on board. Could it be Crawford himself? Well, it would be pretty stupid to try to salvage his own reputation without thinking of the consequences for the whole production. Hanlon's razor, is it? ;)

The possibility of a Murtaugh recast was mentioned in this very thread. Indeed, it would be ludicrous because even if those rumors about him being a diva are true, he has nothing to do with the problems that jeorpardize the show's future, except as a victim in one instance.

Edited April 30, 2018 by Happy Harpy

[weathered1]

In fairness, the notion of recasting Murtaugh was mentioned less as a real possibility and more as simply a comparison of what each of the two roles entails. For what it's worth, given the premise of the show (and movies) and how everything depends upon the Riggs/Murtaugh dynamic and each character being strong in his own right, I don't think recasting either one is an actual, realistic option. I think the show moves forward with both Crawford and Wayans or it ends, and that's as it should be, imho. 

Though the rumors about Wayans are, by comparison, nowhere near as serious, I do think that he could play a role in jeopardizing the show's future if his relationship with Crawford deteriorated to the extent that they weren't any longer on speaking terms as a result of dueling egos or something of that sort. If Wayans' part in that is a direct result of those safety concerns, etc., then that's certainly more justifiable. 

I think what it all boils down to is that quite a lot has transpired to which we are simply not privy. One doesn't have to pay damages and be forced to deal with anger management issues solely due to one isolated incident (unless it was even more serious than we know). If it were that serious, one wonders why Crawford wasn't fired at the time, or at any time since then before this point, especially if the issues are on-going, people on that set don't want to work with him, he has put others' safety into question, and the list goes on. (Though that may be at least partly due to the union looking into everything.)

If all of that is true, that makes the support cast members have shown him even more interesting - sure, they don't want to lose their jobs, but they could also rally around the idea of a recast or some other solution to the problem that doesn't involve them having to seek another source of gainful employment. One likely scenario is that they, too, realize recasting won't work, so they've decided they'll deal with the behind the scenes issues and put on a happy face for the public in an attempt to ameliorate all of this ugliness and the idea that that set has become toxic. In other words, they could be trying to show that they can all get along so that tptb will perhaps not be so inclined to cut their losses and end the show. 

Even if it were to continue, one wonders if the damage has already been done, so the odds that it will return to even a fraction of its season one glory aren't great. I have to go back to my original thought: unless they can all sit down and hash everything out, and the people in positions of power actually start to do their jobs and rein in all of this inexcusably unprofessional behavior, then they might as well put the show out of its misery.

[kaygeeret]

IMO, the show is dead.....sadly as I really enjoyed it last year.

Too much drama, too many leaks not "approved" by TPTB.

RIP

[DearEvette]

11 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Well, the chronology of events certainly seems to indicate that someone was having 'second thoughts'. The first Deadline article (23 April) put the blame on Crawford, it was followed by Crawford's apology (24 April)  and then by a second article painting a 'more nuanced' picture (24 April) indicating additional problems on set. If the first story was a warning shot for Crawford there was no need for the second one. Unless they wanted to soften blow - by throwing shade on his co-star and the show runner. Not exactly the best way to ease tensions.

The first inkling was a blind item on TVline (the more gossipy tv focused sister site to Deadline) that appeared several days before the first Deadline article.  The first Deadline ( 23 April) article read way more damaging to Crawford.  It made reference to 'long time' problems and made a point to say that it was Wayans' involvement that got the show greenlit in the first place. 

Interestingly all of this appears to be a 100% Deadline scoop.  From a quick look at other entertainment industry outlets, they seem to have reported on it only after Crawford's apology statement.  I did see somewhere, I think maybe it was The Hollywood reporter(?) cited 'sources' but it almost read like Deadline was their source.  None of the other outlets I looked at seem to have picked up on the 'it's a mess behind the scenes' spin that the second Deadline article pushed.

Whatever the case, I tend to agree that the second season just didn't have the fun of the first season.  I mean it could be as simple as sophomore slump.  And really my most hated part of S2 was Riggs daddy issues with their inability to actually do anything interesting with Roger's family a close second.  If there was really some personality problems between Wayans and Crawford, or even if it was just Crawford, they already had the tools in place to move the show into a more ensemble vehicle and less a two man lead.  The supporting cast, to a person, is really great.  I mean, I loved the episodes with The B Team and am low key bummed that they seemed to have abandoned that as a concept.  It would have been nice to see Bailey and Bowman getting better cases.  They have an easy chemistry and charm that could have taken some of the pressure off the main pair. And they are wasting Keesha Sharp and Kevin Rahm cruelly.

[nitrofishblue]

I enjoy this show for its entertainment value. However in recent shows the writers are making Murtaugh look and act like a silly first grader. How can a professional person succeed in his field when acting like a fool over EVERYTHING? I pity the character of his wife. She is supposed to be a professional lawyer yet goes all stupid over the dumbest things. I blame the writers for this change.  They need to go back to the first shows and review them. That maybe could rest the writing team.

[MostlyC]

According to Variety, Lethal Weapon might be coming back after all.

http://variety.com/2018/tv/news/broadcast-bubble-shows-renewals-cancellations-2018-2019-1202792138/

[Happy Harpy]

On 5/3/2018 at 3:39 AM, MostlyC said:

According to Variety, Lethal Weapon might be coming back after all.

http://variety.com/2018/tv/news/broadcast-bubble-shows-renewals-cancellations-2018-2019-1202792138/

It's called "a stretch" by the Hollywood Reporter.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/10-tv-pilots-score-series-pickups-2018-1108582

The next two weeks are going to be worse than a TV romantic will they-won't they.

[Happy Harpy]

They're trying to recast, in the end. C.Crawford seems definitely out.

http://tvline.com/2018/05/08/clayne-crawford-leaving-lethal-weapon-season-3-controversy-recast/

[JackONeill]

Bye, bye, Clayne.

Personally, they ran out of Lethal Weapon material in the first season. It then became just another cop show.

[MissLucas]

Well, that's really unfortunate all around. It will be really hard to recast him but a cancellation would mean lots of people will lose their jobs. During season one I told people that this show was much better than it had any right to be and despite some problems this season it still holds true. Which makes the whole mess so infuriating. 

[Chaos Theory]

Wow looks like they actually did it.    Not the first time a scripted show has had enough with an actor,  It is unfortunate all around because I am not sure the show can survive without Clayne Crawford.  That being said if everything being said is true he definitely deserved to be fired.  

[AstaCharles]

I think they should "reboot" instead of recast. Roger is Captain and Avery is promoted. Have Roger supervise a young team that gets him in the crazy situations, and Riggs gets a happy ending ( written out of the show). I was never a huge fan of the franchise, I barely remember Part 2. I recall bits of Part 4 on tv, with Joe Pesci and Chris Rock. Riggs in part 4 was going to be a family man. So to me, the "Lethal Weapon " world can evolve. Crawford was great , I'm fine with ending his story.

[Chaos Theory]

They could always go with the tried and true soap opera method shoot Riggs in the face and have him wake up a few episodes later "a changed man"  

[Happy Harpy]

1 hour ago, MissLucas said:

Which makes the whole mess so infuriating. 

It's infuriating, but the issue isn't only having to recast per se. LW's ratings haven't been good lately, around 0.7 except when there's no competition (NCIS reruns, for example). I don't think the show has big enough a "cushion" to afford such a big change, and if they can read numbers, FOX is aware of it.

WB is trying to recast, but is FOX truly behind it? LW is an international franchise that works well overseas, that's the big element in its favor, but it doesn't matter to the network because they don't get syndication or distribution money. Ads revenue, therefore ratings and especially Live+SD, is where FOX gets profits. So unless WB manages a truly exceptional casting coup, able to bring those ratings in...

[MostlyC]

Tonight's the season finale....I wonder if they will address this.  Certainly, an injury, however contrived, could at least offer a hand-wave to a new face.

And speaking of faces, what a slap in the face to Clayne.

I wish the show luck because this is going to be tough to get a third season, given the ratings and the bad press. Oh, to have been a fly on the wall this pas season to truly know how things played out.

[nitrofishblue]

Don't recast the role. Bring in a new character that is completely different than the Riggs character