S22.E07: Week 7

[simplyme]

I remember two kids doing a triple cartwheel in my brother's elementary school talent show in the early 80s.  They should totally be credited! ;)

(For those of us that remember the 80s, before children were banned from moving in any way in school for fear they might get injured and the school would get sued...)

[skyways]

I don't know why people keep mentioning Nyle - in terms of what exactly???? His posture is not good; Wanya who has not a typical dancer's body has better posture than him. I agree he's more like the William Levy - an unknown who comes in and skates by with good looks and passable dancing. Anyone with eyes would have seen that from the very first dance, Paige is head and shoulders above everybody in terms of good technique and has a good choreographer in Mark. Wanya is tough competition though.

Agreed with what everybody said about Jodie. I can't believe it's the same person I saw in that clip dancing with Val on that show - it's like night and day.

Ginger is ok and I think her strength is ballroom not Latin but she will get to the final 4? 5? she will last a while simply because she's an employee!

As for the 'mishap' with Bruno, I think it's the producers that are fudging the numbers against Nyle. His dance was over scored anyway and deserved another point off. Nevertheless, he will last a while as well.

[SophiaPehawkins]

Quote

Paige is head and shoulders above everybody in terms of good technique and has a good choreographer in Mark. Wanya is tough competition though.

I would hope so considering her dance background. It gets tricky comparing dancers on this show, because everyone has a different starting point. I think Nyle has a natural talent for dance and moves quite well. Wanya has that too, but brings a different energy. Looking at the list of past winners its a mix of experienced dancers, large fanbases (athletes), and those with a combination of improvement and energy (Alfonso and JR come to mind). When talking about Nyle, of course his deafness is a factor to consider. He's not always technically sound, but I think he dances well and avoids that awkward/stilted dancing that can plague a lot of celebrities. I am impressed that despite his deafness, he's improving every week. Mileage varies, of course.

[crowceilidh]

The irony of Len not hearing Bruno correctly only on the deaf guy's scores is just odd.

[simplyme]

I can't believe it's taken this long for Len to go deaf on that side given Bruno's extremely hyper style.

[truthaboutluv]

Quote

I don't know why people keep mentioning Nyle - in terms of what exactly????

In terms of the fact that this show has never been based/won on the best technique, which in fairness is kind of subjective anyway. This show, like any other one that involves viewer votes, is essentially a popularity contest. And the fact is, combine Nyle's story of being deaf, yes the good looks, a really nice partnership with Peta and decent dance ability (yes, maybe not the best of everyone but very good IMO, for an untrained dancer who cannot hear the music) and that makes him very hard to beat. Noah Galloway made it to the Final 3 essentially walking, because of his story. Fair or not, there are casual viewers who vote, who will think everything Nyle does is way more impressive and amazing than anyone else because he's doing it while deaf. And that alone may very well get him the win.

Edited May 4, 2016 by truthaboutluv

[Quickbeam]

The real winner for me is Ramon. He's an astonishingly good interpreter. I've been one myself for 30 years and the work he is doing is extremely difficult. Terp for the win! 

I can see the flaws in Nyles' frame but I love watching him; his movement is so good and he really connects with Peta. Plus that smile. 

Edited May 4, 2016 by Quickbeam
Misspelled name

[enthus-pro]

Thoughts on contestants for week 7.

 

3a. Jodie & Keo – like Carrie Ann, thought the couple illuminated a bright and effervescent aura from beginning to end. Jodie looked light on her feet and it was nice to see her travelling well across the floor with Keo for the first time. Think she could've had a bit more drive, and was a bit of a letdown to see the consistent gapping, but think this was her best dance so far nonetheless. Its nice to see this new side of Jodie, and hope she can create the same mood in the upcoming ballrooms as well.

2b. Ginger & Val - enjoyed how her fingers brushed across her arms at the beginning, and how they melted as they moved around Val's shoulders, setting a emotional, believable scene. Thought her left hand felt more comfortable and that Ginger danced more outwards towards the audience. Liked her move during the lyric “nothing” as she did a nice job conveying the pain and conviction. Wished she could've extended/stretched her neck a bit more (and maybe watch the toning of the neck in the spins) but a great performance nonetheless.

2b. Wanya & Lindsay – thought Wanya did a nice job carrying out a sophisticated look and feel to the number. The concept was interesting and thought there was a good story line from beginning to end. Thought his upper body and topline was a bit soft and could've been more refined; his free arm extensions could've shown a bit more reach as well. Think sometimes he gets a little too excited with his hip hop shoulders and that they unintentionally creep into the performance, but nonetheless thought this was a nice performance.

2a. Peta & Nyle - thought Nyle improved his posture and that he showed nice long arm lines that extended well to his fingertips. The performance had a smooth, graceful look to it and thought Peta did a nice job trying to reconcile the music with the foxtrot. Thinking maybe the rise/fall was a bit emphasized as it should come about a bit more naturally, and that there were small moments where his frame did buckle. Hoping Peta will find a healthy balance between Nyle's technique and the signature flair in her choreography for the upcoming routines.

2a. Paige & Mark – thought Paige looked in great shape and not winded after carrying out an ambitious routine. Liked the American spin-like moves at the beginning and thought she felt comfortable in all the spins afterwards. Since there were lots of content, thought maybe her upper half was getting a bit too excited and that she could've shown a bit more freedom in her body when performing some jive moves. Nonetheless, thought she portrayed the artist well and that they did a nice job with the routine.

 

Best of luck to all the celebs and looking forward to their dances.

[crowceilidh]

Thanks for sharing that perspective, Quickbeam.

[RedFiat]

What I am enjoying the most this season is noticing improvement in the celebrities who are really paying attention to Ballroom and Latin dance style. I like everyone in the final 6 and I think they deserve to be there. Nyle, Ginger and Antonio who have never been in the bottom 2 must feel pretty solid about their chances moving to the finals. 

Nyle who is obviously taking all the notes given to him about improving his posture is doing it. He continues to astound me in that when he moves it is with purpose, and true emotion, it is not just filling space with something he was taught. If he wins I will be very happy for him and his accomplishment.   

Antonio, who would be a serious threat if he put the time in, is now pushing himself, and it is highly likely we will see  at least in the final 4. It would have been more entertaining if he was more committed earlier on like Hines Ward. Hines demonstrated his true joy at dancing, while all the while understanding the work required, especially for someone who is not a natural ballroom dancer and not taking his formidable fanbase for granted.

Ginger, who is rather self conscious on contemporary movement like the Janet Jackson piece, is for me really gorgeous on the dance style of ballroom in which she really has to give herself over to her partner.  She remarked that all the work is beginning to pay off. That is a nice dividend when you think you know what is required but quickly realize it is not what you thought. 

And as for the three with a less easy road to the finale:

Wanye could have been comfortable just doing his groove, because he's that good in understanding music, but instead is stretching himself in dance styles that dont normally compliment his body type or movement. Even if they dont always work, like when the Tango went south, you could feel the commitment to incorporate everything about the style into his dance. That is what makes Wanye so likable. 

Paige is continuing to step it up. She is demonstrating week after week that the hard work she puts in to everything is working in her favor. She had some timing issues earlier on but has seemed to overcome that nervousness. She is not solely relying on her background in dance, she is working to embody a soul in her dance style, something that Nyle has naturally. Paige has come this far because of good scores and her pro is popular and innovative. It remains to be seen if she can stay in this or if her fanbase is weaker than expected.  

Jodie has had to struggle this season, we have been expecting the end,  and yet with being in the bottom 2 twice she has thus far been able to avoid the axe. She's been paired with a pro who has not done particularly well and many see that as her greatest liability.  True or not, Jodie has been able to demonstrate a real determination to do better after some disappointments, and remain in the hunt. That is the tenacity that a lot of viewers like in a contestant.  

For entertainment alone I would like to see a Nyle, Paige, Wanye finale.

But fanbases will have a lot more to say about it .  I think Nyle is a lock  but the other two spots are anyone's guess.   

Edited May 4, 2016 by RedFiat

[jhlipton]

On 5/3/2016 at 7:12 PM, Callaphera said:

Team Beyonce sucked balls.. The dancing was bad enough. 

The team dance just falls apart without Derek there, doesn't it? (Just kidding!)

 

I think the problem was two-fold: There are no obvious "Beyonce moves" (like there are James Brown or Tina Turner moves) that they could work in; and the Beyonce songs they chose were lower energy than the Brown songs.

I'm glad Derek isn't in this season (could be one of the major reasons I'm enjoying it so much) -- it meant the winner of the Team Dance wasn't predetermined.

 

13 hours ago, Thadeeeyus said:

Why were so many dances on fast speed last night?  Jodie and Keo's dance looked like a cartoon version of a quickstep with them trying to make the steps fit the music.  Very distracting.

I'm glad someone else thought this.  I thought it was far too hectic for a Foxtrot.

12 hours ago, DancingD said:

Also watched Paige and Mark again. She has that habit that trained dancers do, dancing with her knees apart. Ballroom dancers have a very feminine style and keep their knees close. I'm sure they're working on it. Could be a Tina Turner thing, but pretty sure Paige does it in other dances.

I loved Paige and Mark;s jive -- the way they worked in Tina's classic moves (the "knees apart" are a major part of that) with a lot of serious jive content, at such speed was astounding.  Definitely got all 10s in our house.

[iMonrey]

The judges are really running out of things to say to the also-rans they know have no shot at winning. "What I like about you is . . . you come out and give it your all!" How many iterations of that have we heard over the past 22 seasons?

[heartsaperkin]

A thousand amens, Quickbeam! I've been saying the same thing since Day One! Ramon is absolutely fantastic--as I'm sure you are!! What a talent you folks have!! I'm waayyy jealous this season--of a dancer and an interpreter!!

[crowceilidh]

I'm hoping that Nyle tries to describe more about how he experiences dancing to us sometime towards the end of this season.  

[boyznkatz]

On 5/4/2016 at 9:41 PM, Quickbeam said:

The real winner for me is Ramon. He's an astonishingly good interpreter. I've been one myself for 30 years and the work he is doing is extremely difficult. Terp for the win! 

I can see the flaws in Nyles' frame but I love watching him; his movement is so good and he really connects with Peta. Plus that smile. 

That is awesome that you are an interpreter! I agree, Nyle's interpreter is so good that sometimes I forget Nyle is deaf and I think that is really him talking. It must be a very difficult job to do. 

[SophiaPehawkins]

On May 3, 2016 at 2:11 AM, Kerri Johnson said:

I never cared much for Peta but I have really enjoyed her fierce devotion to Nyle this whole season.

I've been a big fan of Peta since she was paired with Donald. Her partnership with Tommy was great, too. I see a similarity with Nyle and it's this protective factor that feels so genuine. They're probably my favorite partnership along with Wanya and Lindsay.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

I have never seen a pro have as poor an ep as Keo did in this one.  The best part was watching him in the creative session for the team dance.  He was forever off in a corner, literally, as the other fellas were plotting out the choreo.  it was astonishing to me.  He may as well have been  a BBCW cameraman.  

In the partner dance with Jodie itself, to my decidedly not formally-trained eyes, he seemed to be running to catch up with his faster partner.  He looked like the old guy contestant struggling to keep up with a dervish Cheryl or Sharna.  

ABC or BBCW could show us the video anytime they wished of the jidges writing down the scores for any contestant.  There is a static camera above and to the right of CAI.  Every once in awhile, you can see them doing this LIVE.  With total certainty, I can say that Bruno used to scribble his score down by himself, before CAI whisked the sheet away to a production assistant crouched behind her.  That may have changed with Len writing down two scores, but I haven't seen that yet.

I agree that the "9" with the line under it in the box for Len and for Bruno looked to be identical - as if they were written by the same person.  Occam's Razor, and BBCW's refusal to release the video, lead me to believe Len screwed it up.  It's better for us to think Bruno screwed up again than to blame the sensitive Len, who has already stayed home for an entire season.  

While I dearly love Tom's wit and charm, he was completely an ass for stopping EVERYthing and then drawing it out and telling us that Sharna had a costume issue.  All he needed to do was to quickly whisper in her ear there was a problem and move on.  But no, he totally went for the crass and craven, adding to her embarrassment.  I believe it's the first time he was this gratuitous with a female pro.  Very disappointing.  He's better than that.

[MsJamieDornan]

I hope this is Keo's last season as a pro. Enough is enough.

[Dots And Stripes]

On 5/6/2016 at 1:25 AM, Lonesome Rhodes said:

ABC or BBCW could show us the video anytime they wished of the jidges writing down the scores for any contestant.  There is a static camera above and to the right of CAI.  Every once in awhile, you can see them doing this LIVE.  With total certainty, I can say that Bruno used to scribble his score down by himself, before CAI whisked the sheet away to a production assistant crouched behind her.  That may have changed with Len writing down two scores, but I haven't seen that yet.

I agree that the "9" with the line under it in the box for Len and for Bruno looked to be identical - as if they were written by the same person.  Occam's Razor, and BBCW's refusal to release the video, lead me to believe Len screwed it up.  It's better for us to think Bruno screwed up again than to blame the sensitive Len, who has already stayed home for an entire season.  

DWTS has a live stream of multiple cameras on the abc website during the show. There is always a live stream of the judges. The video this week showed Len writing his score and Bruno's score for Nyle. I don't think it's about sensitivity to Len so much as "we look at what's written" is always the shows response when this sort of thing happens. 

[WhosThatGirl]

On 5/6/2016 at 1:38 AM, MsJamieDornan said:

I hope this is Keo's last season as a pro. Enough is enough.

I do too. This is the first time he has been around for a long time and I just don't think he's a good choreographer. Some people may think he is good but I just don't. Also, when they did the switch up, Jodie to me worked better with Val than she did with Keo. Before this season, Keo didn't last long, I don't remember his 1 partner but I remember his  partner  the model who I believe got kicked off the 2nd week. And she was rude to him and went to her phone during her rehearsal and said something like, "this is my work and it's more important I answer it than this" and Bruno insinuated that she wasn't that bright. I don't remember if that was his first season as a pro, but they got kicked off fairly early. But this is the longest I've seen him and I am not a fan. He's a good dancer. I liked him in the big numbers he did, but on his own, I don't like his style. The only dance I've really liked from Jodie and Keo this season was the "Try" Pink dance and Keo barley choreographed that as the theme was recreation of famous dances.  

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Thank you, @Dots And Stripes for the 411.

Isn't it interesting that Bruno did not protest that he had told Len "10"?  Instead, he went with general confusion as a response.  It is also of great interest to me, perhaps nobody else (and that is perfectly OK), that BBCW/ABC, facing yet another potential scoring "scandal," identical to an earlier one, chooses not to place the correction of the error and the integrity of the show above the potential embarrassment to Len.  Not too long ago, Standards and Practices would have taken over the response and it would have been thorough and transparent.  Anything hinting at a scoring irregularity in a game or competitive show (Recall the "21" ordeal) would have been thoroughly squashed by the highest levels of the network(s). There's a modicum of avoiding the question of Len's fitness to serve as a jidge in this.

I'm fine with the screw-up as it won't have any real bearing on anything.  I'm also intensely curious, having worked at two networks, at how handling things like this has evolved over time.

[Dots And Stripes]

7 minutes ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

Thank you, @Dots And Stripes for the 411.

Isn't it interesting that Bruno did not protest that he had told Len "10"?  Instead, he went with general confusion as a response.  It is also of great interest to me, perhaps nobody else (and that is perfectly OK), that BBCW/ABC, facing yet another potential scoring "scandal," identical to an earlier one, chooses not to place the correction of the error and the integrity of the show above the potential embarrassment to Len.  Not too long ago, Standards and Practices would have taken over the response and it would have been thorough and transparent.  Anything hinting at a scoring irregularity in a game or competitive show (Recall the "21" ordeal) would have been thoroughly squashed by the highest levels of the network(s). There's a modicum of avoiding the question of Len's fitness to serve as a jidge in this.

I'm fine with the screw-up as it won't have any real bearing on anything.  I'm also intensely curious, having worked at two networks, at how handling things like this has evolved over time.

I could have sworn this thing happened a few times over the years and I don't think it every turned into the sort of thing Standards and Practices got involved with. They counted what is written on the paper, as they always do. Maks flat out said Len wrote the scores when it happened a few weeks ago and the show didn't seem to react or care. IMO, it's not a big deal to the show for 2 reasons: 1) Nyle will not be eliminated and so it won't matter if he got 9's or 10's and 2) this is not a game show and the show apparently has very expansively written contracts. If they did have a mistake that eliminated the wrong person, they could survive it.

[McManda]

Quote

Not too long ago, Standards and Practices would have taken over the response and it would have been thorough and transparent.  Anything hinting at a scoring irregularity in a game or competitive show (Recall the "21" ordeal) would have been thoroughly squashed by the highest levels of the network(s).

IANAL but doesn't the legislation that resulted from the 1950s quiz show scandals just regulate game shows with prizes? It's been awhile since I've read about it, but I remember the language including "contests" of "intellectual knowledge" and "intellectual skill" and them having defined "contest" as being a competition where something of value is awarded by the program or sponsors as announced during the course of the contest.

That said, simply because the celebs are contracted and there is no cash or prize winnings means that Standards and Practices doesn't care if a show like DWTS is at all rigged. I don't think it is, but I do think there is a narrative that TPTB intend to tell. DWTS isn't a game show; it's a reality show and we all know how truthful reality shows can be.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Anything that smacks of producer interference in a contest of any type was deeply scrutinized.  It was one of the very, very, few things broadcasters genuinely feared.  1)  They could ill afford the image of being a "cheater" or fraud, and 2)  The FCC was hyper-zealous about this area of TV.

This certainly has significantly abated in the past 15 years or so.  With the rise of cable and the decline of broadcast, regulation/scrutiny, generally, of broadcast has lessened significantly.  This is one example.  Although, even Idol was sensitive to not running afoul of these regulations.   At least once, they totally rejected a week's voting, saving everyone.  Seacrest often gave excruciatingly detailed explanations of how a given change-up in the process would occur.  

My memory of DWTS when this first happened some seasons ago is that TPTB went to some lengths to show us exactly  the process, re-enacting how the jidges quickly scribble a score, with CAI handing off the paper to a PA.  Subsequently, they changed the method by having Len write down Bruno's score and his own.

[crossover]

On 5/3/2016 at 6:44 PM, simplyme said:

I remember two kids doing a triple cartwheel in my brother's elementary school talent show in the early 80s.  They should totally be credited! ;)

 

A lot of dance moves started from observing regular people, things, animals, nature etc.  They get inspiration from a wide variety.  I think people were just going by its use in choreography.  The reality dance shows were the first time for a lot of people to see the dance moves. And the poster was merely pointing out that this particular move was used on SYTYCD from early on.  I was surprised to see the move in a ballroom routine.  Swing, jitterbug etc, I could see because a lot of the choreography is based on the "wow" factor.  I just think of the jive in terms of stamina and precision.  But I liked the inclusion.  It perked me up.

[simplyme]

33 minutes ago, movement said:

And the poster was merely pointing out that this particular move was used on SYTYCD from early on. 

Gotcha.  I went back and reread the OP.  I see now that they were responding to an earlier post about how awesome Mark's choreography was, particularly that triple cartwheel, by pointing out that he wasn't the first to do it in dance.  They specifically mentioned that they didn't know if Benji Schwimmer had invented it.  By the time I read through more posts about Schwimmers and cartwheels, I'd forgotten what the OP said and got a bit sarcastic.  Oops.  That was my definitely my bad, and thank you for catching it and correcting my mistake.  Cheers!  :)

[dwtsgueststars]

Speaking of paddlegate - a contestant's staying or leaving depends on that score. Scores are very important, especially, in a competition this close. I guess it's safe to assume that Nyle  is running away with viewers' vote...

Edited May 9, 2016 by dwtsgueststars

[St. Claire]

On 5/3/2016 at 2:52 PM, Alapaki said:

Agreed.  That made no sense.  I know the theme was iconic performers, but I still think you have to have a song that's strongly identified with the performer.  Until last night I had no idea Aretha Franklin had covered that song.  

If you'd said to me before the show "For icon night, they are dancing to 'Say a A Little Prayer'," I totally would have pegged Dionne Warwick as the icon in question. Aretha is an undeniable icon, but the songs that spring to mind are "Respect," "Natural Woman," "Think," "Chain of Fools"...there are plenty to choose from. I remember that Aretha did it, but I still think of it as a Dionne song.

On 5/4/2016 at 10:41 PM, Quickbeam said:

The real winner for me is Ramon. He's an astonishingly good interpreter. I've been one myself for 30 years and the work he is doing is extremely difficult. Terp for the win! 

I can see the flaws in Nyles' frame but I love watching him; his movement is so good and he really connects with Peta. Plus that smile. 

My biggest regret if we see Nyle booted is that we lose Ramon. He's amazing.

[Alapaki]

3 hours ago, dwtsgueststars said:

Speaking of paddlegate - a contestant's staying or leaving depends on that score. Scores are very important, especially, in a competition this close. I guess it's safe to assume that Nyle  is running away with viewers' vote...

Actually, having run the numbers for several seasons, I can say that once you convert the Judges' raw scores to "percentage of total points awarded", the spread between all of the teams gets much narrower.  So much so that I'm sure those scores make much difference at all. (this is why, IMO, they introduce gimmick dances, groups dances, etc. as a way to boost the impact of their scores).  

For example, once you convert the scores to % of points awarded, the spread between the first and last place teams can be less than 3 points.  Of course TPTB and the Judges know the spread in viewer votes that each contestant is getting, and to the extent that they can project from that history how the votes will go in the current week, they theoretically could award scores that they had a degree of confidence would get a particular team eliminated.  But if a Judge-Point difference of 3 points or less (adjusted) is enough to make the difference, they have very little margin of error to actually make that work.

Point being, I think it's unlikely that 9's vs.10's would make a difference in whether Nyle stays or goes.  That's what makes the screw-up (twice) so bizarre.

[dwtsgueststars]

i found the scores and percentages for this week

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChiKnxbU8AEYnwD.jpg:large

 

Exactly, What if that happened to someone who's scores matter. What if Len had heard 4 instead of 9?

[simplyme]

1 hour ago, dwtsgueststars said:

Exactly, What if that happened to someone who's scores matter. What if Len had heard 4 instead of 9?

I'm pretty sure Len would have quadruple checked with Bruno had he heard a 4 for that dance.  A 9 versus a 10 is certainly within the realm of possibility.  A 4 versus a 9 from Bruno the mad gusher is not.

And, as someone pointed out above, it's generally not the judge's scores that send people home.  It's viewer votes.  I wouldn't be surprised if the end result was some people taking the time to vote for Nyle because he was a victim of Paddlegate and thus giving him an actual higher total combination than if he'd just gotten the 10 in the first place.

I'm sure conspiracy theorists are all excited.  Frankly, it's a show for entertainment, not the dancing/judging/voting equivalent of the Hunger Games.  No one dies.  I'm not going to get too worked up about any "manipulation" and how terrible it is. :)  I mean, Bristol Palin once was third.  I think most folks realize DWTS is not really all about dancing and work ethic.  So Paddlegate didn't really cost me any sleep.