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The Star Wars Saga

Joe

By Joe
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Anduin

Anduin

1 hour ago, Browncoat said:

Most of them don't bother me, like the random addition of creatures and people, but there are two in the original that almost make me angry.  One, obviously, is Han shooting Greedo, but the other is the ridiculous bit of CGI Jabba chatting with Han -- was it in the hangar with the Millennium Falcon?  I've only seen it once or twice (despite having seen the original movie about a hundred times), and I've tried to erase it from my brain.  It detracts from the effect puppet Jabba has later -- puppet Jabba is menacing and disgusting.  CGI Jabba is flat and idiotic.

And I will always have a soft spot in my heart for "Yub Nub".

I meant, his right to make changes. The changes themselves, no. I'm not a fan of anything but a cleaned-up print and Cloud City exteriors. And 100% about Yub Nub. Celebrate the love, people! Celebrate the love!

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Kel Varnsen

Kel Varnsen

I am surprised there hasn't been any real discussion from Disney about releasing the theatrical versions of the original movies (either on BluRay or Disney+). I mean Disney loves money and with their theatre business being pretty much nothing this year (along with the theme parks) it would be an easy way to make some quick cash with very little risk.

Plus with how poorly the sequel trilogy was received among the most hardcore and vocal fans, putting the original movies out might get them to stop complaining about Star Wars on the internet for about 5 minutes.

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Bill1978

Bill1978

7 hours ago, Browncoat said:

but the other is the ridiculous bit of CGI Jabba chatting with Han -- was it in the hangar with the Millennium Falcon?

I agree. Out of all his changes that's the one I wish would be removed. And look I admit that back in 1997 when the Special Edition was released, I was excited to see the scene and in fact I think I actually thought it was cool. But the effect has not held up well over the years and I now cringe when I watch it, especially when Han has to walk on top of Jabba's 'tail'. 

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Danny Franks

Danny Franks

4 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

putting the original movies out might get them to stop complaining about Star Wars on the internet for about 5 minutes.

Nah, they'd just start bitching about Disney pulling off a cheap cash grab instead. Some Star Wars "fans" are so toxic that they will find absolutely anything to attack, on the flimsiest pretext.

Oh, and the worst bit about the special editions is that interminable musical number in Return of the Jedi, with the bad CGI aliens singing a terrible song. Greedo shooting first is lame, and a good early indicator of George Lucas' terrible storytelling instincts, but it's just awkward and over in an instant. Reinserting Jabba makes no sense, CGI quality or not, because the point of the earlier scene is to establish that Han has a gangster after him who is tired of his excuses. Why kill Greedo to then have a civil conversation with that very gangster?

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

4 hours ago, Browncoat said:

I would go see the true originals in the theater.  Not so much the tinkered-with versions.

I've been in waiting for the original theatrical release for years. At one point the hold up was FOX Owning a New Hope. Now that Disney bought FOX I really really want them to release the original theatrical movies. I hate the special editions. Although, post Clone Wars S7 i might be OK with Hayden showing up as Force Ghost Anakin.

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andromeda331

andromeda331

18 hours ago, Anduin said:

I don't know, but I doubt it'll happen while he's alive to complain. The maclunkey versions are apparently the ones he wants people to see. Yeah, even if he has no official power, he still casts a long shadow.

Frankly, I go back and forth on his changes. I write myself, and I keep going back to my old stuff and changing bits here and there. I think I'm making them better, but I can't be objective on the matter. Of course, I'm not actually properly published. Less than a dozen people have read my work, and only then the original versions. If I was published, it might be a different matter.

OTOH, JRR Tolkien, Terry Pratchett, and Raymond Feist have released rewrites of their published books. From what I've seen of the original version of the Hobbit, I the second edition changes were for the better. I haven't read Pratchett's original Carpet People or Feist's new edition of Magician.

Short version, I prefer the original cinematic Star Wars. But I can't be sure they're actually better. It'd be nice to have the official legal versions as good as could be made, rather than having to rely on old DVD rips and the Despecialised versions.

I do find it interesting. I remember in elementary school one of my teachers saying when it comes to writing one of the hardest things to do is when its finish to stop and walk away. At the time I though that didn't make any sense. But I've heard it growing up from various authors, TV show and filmmakers. And through my own stories its really easy to see why. Its so easy to keep going back. You may think your done but then later start thinking about a scene or something else, or get an idea or think of something better. And a lot of times it does improve the story, it does make it better. But just as often it can end up making it a big mess or worse. I've ended up ruining too many stories by doing just that. Seeing authors and filmmakers doing the same thing its nice to see its not just me. I think it exists in pretty much every place in arts. When I took a cake decorating class my teacher said the same thing, when she finished a cake for a client she had to learn to stop and walk away or she'd start seeing places she thought needing improvement and end up look like a mess. I don't mind the changes in the special editions although the originals were perfect. Not so much about the changes in the Blu ray.  The only one I really loved was seeing the different planets celebrating the death of Emperor and Empire it was a good way to see how happy everyone was not just the rebels. 

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Chyromaniac

Chyromaniac

I don’t think Prowse gets enough credit for his contribution to Vader.  Sure the voice is a big part of the character* - but the way Prowse moves and carries himself goes a long way to creating the sense of intimidation Vader projects.  Any time I read some novel or comic that describes him as moving quickly it feels wrong-because David Prowse made him precise and methodical.  And he does. not. run.

*If you are able to find it, it’s fun to check out the raw footage of Prowse delivering the Vader lines on set in his natural lilting Bristol accent.  Imagine Star Wars biggest villain talking like Hagrid- “you are part o’ the rebel alloyance, an’ a tray-or!”

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Kel Varnsen

Kel Varnsen

On 11/28/2020 at 4:16 PM, Danny Franks said:

Nah, they'd just start bitching about Disney pulling off a cheap cash grab instead. Some Star Wars "fans" are so toxic that they will find absolutely anything to attack, on the flimsiest pretext.

You are probably right about that. But at least with the whole global pandemic thing and Disney probably losing millions every day, they would at least have an excuse for a cash grab. Plus it is not like they would have to do it cheap, make it nice and a ton of people would buy it, even those complaining nerds.

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VCRTracking

VCRTracking

(edited)
12 hours ago, Perfect Xero said:

The whole Jabba scene in ANH: SE is absurd. It makes Jabba look like a pretty reasonable chap (for a crimelord) who just wants payment for the shipment Han lost and he literally allows Han to walk all over him without getting angry.

That's how most loan sharks operate. I think Han not paying him back for 3 years was what made him angry. Shows Han was risking a lot by staying with the Rebels for so long.

18 hours ago, Chyromaniac said:

I don’t think Prowse gets enough credit for his contribution to Vader.  Sure the voice is a big part of the character* - but the way Prowse moves and carries himself goes a long way to creating the sense of intimidation Vader projects.  Any time I read some novel or comic that describes him as moving quickly it feels wrong-because David Prowse made him precise and methodical.  And he does. not. run.

*If you are able to find it, it’s fun to check out the raw footage of Prowse delivering the Vader lines on set in his natural lilting Bristol accent.  Imagine Star Wars biggest villain talking like Hagrid- “you are part o’ the rebel alloyance, an’ a tray-or!”

I love in the Death Star meeting the way he turns and walks toward the Imperial officer(Admiral Motti) insulting him. Vader's like *sigh* "Some people have to learn the hard way..."

Edited by VCRTracking
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Kel Varnsen

Kel Varnsen

12 minutes ago, benteen said:

Jenkins is a great director but Rogue Squadron just seems a lot of same old, same old.  They need to move the story beyond this same sixty year times timespan they are absolutely clinging to.  High Republic would be a better start.

I am starting to feel the same way. I am probably just a casual Star Wars fan but I really liked Season 1 of the Mandolorian. Part of what really drew me to it was how it was an all new story of a guy basically on the opposite end of the Galaxy to everyone else we have seen. Season 2 has had so many more connections to previous Star Wars properties that, even though the stories are still good, it is starting to bug me. And now it seems that the Ashoka episode was basically a damn backdoor pilot.

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benteen

benteen

(edited)
11 hours ago, Dani said:

The Acolyte is a series set at the end of the High Republic. 

Yeah but that's a TV series.  Disney had all this time after Solo and The Rise of Skywalker to think of something new and they give us another spinoff, once again set in the time of the Rebellion.  Been there, done that.  It's a complete waste of Patty Jenkins (whom I'm sure the somehow still employed Kathleen Kennedy will end up firing because that's her thing).  The future of Star Wars cinema (not television which they have done great with) needs to be a bold and complete break from the previous movies.  Set in the far past, like the High Republic or the far future of the Star Wars saga.  Instead, we get another tale featuring Imperial cannon fodder.

Edited by benteen
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Danny Franks

Danny Franks

(edited)

Hopefully these new series have better writing than The Mandalorian. That show looks great, and uses iconography really well, but just feels disjointed and each episode somehow underwhelms. It's like video game writing - go and do this task for these people, then move on.

It looks like they're planning a lot of Jedi-free stuff, which I like. It's going to take a Knights of the Old Republic series to make me really interested in seeing more stuff focusing on Jedi.

Edited by Danny Franks
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VCRTracking

VCRTracking

(edited)
14 minutes ago, AimingforYoko said:

Patty Jenkins' Rogue Squadron is a movie and Taika Waititi's unnamed project is a movie. The rest are all on Disney+.

My mistake. Rogue Squadron has recognition because of the video games and a fighter pilot movie which even people who aren't Star Wars fans would recognize. It's very safe but I don't blame them after the fan  reactions to the last few movies.

Edited by VCRTracking
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Anduin

Anduin

Here's something interesting. Ezia Gonzalez nearly got the role of Rey. While I certainly like Daisy Ridley, there'd probably be less speculation of her being a Skywalker from the start if it was someone who looked less like Carrie Fisher or Natalie Portman.

And in frustrating news, Netflix have picked up the rights to the Knives Out sequels. I want more Rian Johnson Star Wars, not this other nonsense. I didn't finish Brick or Looper, and hated even the trailer for KO. But TLJ is probably the best of the new movies.

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Danny Franks

Danny Franks

14 hours ago, Anduin said:

And in frustrating news, Netflix have picked up the rights to the Knives Out sequels. I want more Rian Johnson Star Wars, not this other nonsense. I didn't finish Brick or Looper, and hated even the trailer for KO. But TLJ is probably the best of the new movies.

Knives Out is really good. So is Looper. Rian Johnson is a very talented filmmaker, he just missed the target with some elements of his Star Wars movie, but the bits he nailed were mostly the bits Disney decided to ignore for the third film.

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Perfect Xero

Perfect Xero

(edited)

Hopefully Netflix will bring in someone else to direct Knives Out 2 so they can subvert expectations by blatantly ignoring the character development from the first film, have Marta fall in love with Ransom, and reveal Benoit to have tried to murder Ransom as a child and then have him drop dead for no reason.

I'm given to understand that this is the proper way to write the second film in a trilogy, anything less is boring and too similar to a video game.

Edited by Perfect Xero
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Danny Franks

Danny Franks

6 hours ago, Perfect Xero said:

Hopefully Netflix will bring in someone else to direct Knives Out 2 so they can subvert expectations by blatantly ignoring the character development from the first film, have Marta fall in love with Ransom, and reveal Benoit to have tried to murder Ransom as a child and then have him drop dead for no reason.

I'm given to understand that this is the proper way to write the second film in a trilogy, anything less is boring and too similar to a video game.

I still remain confused that Disney chose the approach of different filmmakers making their own creative decisions, without even seeing what the others are doing.

Especially considering Disney had a staggeringly successful tentpole franchise that was built on a single, coherent vision and had a track record of movies successfully leading into one another, with the MCU.

But I definitely think that letting Rian Johnson write and direct The Rise of Skywalker would have produced a more satisfying ending than the 'movie by committee and social media fan engagement' that we got.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

15 hours ago, Perfect Xero said:

Hopefully Netflix will bring in someone else to direct Knives Out 2 so they can subvert expectations by blatantly ignoring the character development from the first film, have Marta fall in love with Ransom, and reveal Benoit to have tried to murder Ransom as a child and then have him drop dead for no reason.

I'm given to understand that this is the proper way to write the second film in a trilogy, anything less is boring and too similar to a video game.

I ❤ U 😄😃🤣

 

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Danny Franks

Danny Franks

"It probably would have been better if we'd approached this with a plan." - the reflection of every person who just got their arse kicked at something.

It just doesn't make sense to me that they didn't do that. A three movie arc for Rey, Finn and Kylo Ren. Follow the Hero's Journey outline, end with a new dynamic in the galaxy.

I enjoyed all three movies, to differing degrees, but it's so frustrating that Rey, a protagonist who I thought was really great, ends up being branded a failure by so many because the writers and directors didn't have an overall plan.

Kylo Ren should have been the big bad in the third movie, after the second movie set it up well.

Rey should not have been a Palpatine or crushing on the bad guy who abducted, tortured and gaslighted her in an attempt to get her to turn to the Dark Side.

Finn shouldn't have been an afterthought whose role is usurped by Kylo 'hey, I'm good now!' Ren.

Poe probably should have died heroically.

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VCRTracking

VCRTracking

Interesting to see original Lucas handwritten  outline for 12 episode saga:

https://www.starwars.com/news/the-long-winding-and-shapeshifting-trail-to-episodes-vii-viii-ix

It was all very vague, the original was going to be "Episode VI"

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"On December 29, 1975, in conversation with Alan Dean Foster per the novelization of Star Wars, Lucas mentioned the prequel trilogy along with what would become Episodes V and VI: “I want to have Luke kiss the Princess in the second book. In the third book, I want the story just about the soap opera of the Skywalker family, which ends with the destruction of the Empire. Then someday I want to do the back story of Kenobi as a young man – a story of the Jedi and how the Emperor eventually takes over and turns the whole thing from a Republic into an Empire, and tricks all the Jedi and kills them. The whole battle where Luke’s father gets killed. That would be impossible to do, but it’s great to dream about.”'

So originally Obi Wan wasn't lying, Vader was not Luke's father. If you read the Leigh Bracket script she wrote after story conferences with Lucas, Luke was going to have a twin sister but it wasn't going to be Leia. So the plan changed a lot but there's was still a plan. 

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