S05.E17: Her Handsome Hero

[formerlyfreedom]

Belle turns to Rumplestiltskin with hope of finding a way to protect their child from Hades. However, they disagree over whether to use dark magic, as Belle forbids Rumplestiltskin from using his powers for evil. Meanwhile, Hades secretly meets with Gaston in the Underworld and encourages him to seek revenge on Rumplestiltskin. As the heroes try to find a way to defeat Hades, Emma has a terrifying nightmare that she realizes is beginning to come true. And in flashbacks, Belle and Gaston meet for the first time, but their blossoming romance comes to a halt on the eve of the Ogre wars

 

[InsertWordHere]

Did the show really edit the new Gaston actor into the previously ons? Or does the recast really look that much like the original actor?Dumping Rumple in the River of Lost Souls would be a fitting punishment for what he did to Milah. Gaston (who is a prince now!? The EF has yet another kingdom?) wasn't a great person, but he didn't deserve that fate. Boo to you show for making Rumple right. I knew they would do this.

 

This week on "Once Upon a Time in Offscreenville," Hook told Belle about Liam. It was a nice moment. Probably.

 

I love everything about the scene between Hook, Emma, Regina, and SNOW WHITE (she really is back!) in the crypt. Please, may I have some more? "I'm glad your reflexes are better than your sense of style." Now that's the kind of Regina snark I like.

 

Yay! Ruby is reunited with Snow, who accidentally shot her. Please wake up now.

[Last Time Lord]

You know, if you want to get technical, Rumple only turned Gaston into a rose. Belle was the one who killed him when she cut the rose to put in a vase. (Not that she was aware of that)

 

So... yeah. Belle doomed Gaston twice, and I think I love that.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Last Time Lord

[KingOfHearts]

What the heck did I just watch?

I don't even know what this episode was trying to say. Gaston was evil and you should show mercy? Sometimes darkness is okay for right reasons? It made me hate Belle. She's too stupid to live and she's very twisted. Half the time it was about doing things the heroic way, then others it was the end justifying the means. I just don't get it. My hope for Belle just died in a hole.

Edited April 11, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Watt]

100% over Belle.

[AmeliaBedelia]

Well...that was a thing that happened.

 

My fave show has been boring me lately (this whole half season really). Glad I went into the ep with low expectations. I did like the Snow/Emma/Hook scenes; I wanted more focus there (I've wanted more focus on Emma in the Underworld in general).

 

Best part? Killian brushing his bangs back with his hook.

 

Don't care enough about Belle/Rumple/Zelena to get worked up about any of their scenes.

 

Next week looks dull too.

[ParadoxLost]

I had this whole post in mind about Belle holding on too tight to her fairy tale of turning a beast into a good man through true love. But that is out the window.

 

I've moved beyond Belle is a moron.  She is just too awful to live.  Of the three, Gaston was the most sympathetic (despite Ogre torture, and yes I know that is awful of me but TS, TW).  I was actually dumbfounded that Belle tossed Gaston into the river of eternal torment, then turned to Rumple for a hug/comfort, and then had the audacity to argue that her child should be free now because Gaston was in the river.

 

I want her dead.

Edited April 11, 2016 by ParadoxLost

[Delphi]

All I know, they keep fucking up Rumple and Belle's character, so I'm looking forward to next week with a character they haven't had a chance to screw up so bad.

[Mari]

Well, that was . . . an episode.

 

I now have Gaston's Beauty and the Beast song stuck in my head.  (It's my favorite, so I don't mind as much as if it were "Be Our Guest," but, still.

 

 

Oh, and obligatory Regina suck-up comment due to actual Snow White appearance:  Regina is an amazing, joyous, redemptive character who sparkles rainbows everywhere she goes.

[KingOfHearts]

 

I want her dead.

I do too. Someone magically transplant the baby. Then kill her off along with her husband.

 

 

Gaston (who is a prince now!? The EF has yet another kingdom?) wasn't a great person, but he didn't deserve that fate. Boo to you show for making Rumple right. I knew they would do this.

 

Rumple isn't right as much as he's just being real. Belle just confirmed it. Those two deserve each other. I used to think Belle deserved better, but nope she truly doesn't.

 

 

I'm already bored of next weeks episode.

I didn't care for The Bear King and I'm not going to care for Ruby Slippers either. I don't care about Red, Mulan, or Dorothy.

Edited April 11, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[mjgchick]

So the show would rather throw Belle under than actually give Rumple character growth. Got it.

Mean while I'm shocked its Emma who is feeling guilty about being in the Underworld and not Hook. I guess he's back to encouraging. Snow dis as well. This Underworld arc has made not only Regina likable but Snow remembers who she use to be.

[Jul 68]

Well that was dull as hell. I'll be honest; for the first time EVER, I baled out before it was over. It's DVRed, so I can always watch the ending later, if something posted here piques my interest.

[Watt]

I could never dislike Regina even close to how much I dislike Belle. Regina was never as stupid as Belle is and no one can ever convince me differently.

I'm already bored of next weeks episode.

[InsertWordHere]

I now have Gaston's Beauty and the Beast song stuck in my head.  (It's my favorite, so I don't mind as much as if it were "Be Our Guest," but, still.

I was singing "Kill the Beast" during the ogre hunt scene. 

[kili]

Maybe these guys should leave the Underworld. Rumbelle helps to destroy almost as many souls as the other guys save.  The denizens of the Underworld are probably safer trying to resolve their own issues.

[ParadoxLost]

So show...In Underbrooke nothing grows except a bunch of trees and ferns in the forest.

Edited April 11, 2016 by ParadoxLost

[Mari]

So . . . are Rumple and Belle back together, now?

 

And, early fairyback Belle, suck it up.  Quit whining because your palace and unlimited authority comes with the drawback of having to meet someone you've heard unfortunate rumors about.   You have a crown; you have duties.  

[Rumsy4]

The 1000th iteration of Rumple betraying Belle, and her forgiving him for it. Gaston's fate was messed up. I guess "what a fun surprise" is the reaction A&E expect from the audience every time they bring off a "clever" twist like this. We can add this phrase to "your questions are pointless" and "my reasons are my own". lol What's with this Show and false equivalencies? Belle pushed Gasston into the River to save Rumple. Therefore, Rumple was right, and she was unreasonable in wanting him to refrain from using Dark Magic. In every Rumple/Belle centric someone gets pushed into the River of Lost Souls. Made for each other. Belle deserves everything and more.  

 

On to the good stuff--loved the B plot of the Nevengers working together. Captain Swan being supportive and Snow acting like Snow. Wow! I loved the fact that the writing actually clarified that Emma didn't force anyone to come ot the UW with her.

 

Sending dead flowers to Zelena--how romantic, Hades!

 

I loled that the EF has its own bodice ripper novels.

 

Ruby!! 

[sharky]

If this is the way things are going, please don't ever make me watch another Rumbelle scene ever again. Holy crap! In one scene, she comes to save Gaston, commands Rumple with the dagger, kills Gaston, and then gives the dagger back to Rumple. THERE IS NO LOGIC IN THAT SCENE! Her only smarts are from reading books because she has no damn common sense to save her life. I give Milah even more credit now. At least she was smart enough to leave before she became a complete moron. She even made a proper plan with a pirate to get her son back, which is obviously more than Belle could ever manage.

Another vote for InsertWordHere about Offscreenville. A Captain Book scene would've made me hate Belle a little less. But really, I don't think she can be redeemed for me after this.

Loved seeing the interaction with Hook and the Warrior Women. That's the show I love. There was friendly banter between Hook and Regina, Snow supported love for her daughter, Hook backed up Snow. It was the only healthy human interaction this episode.

[shipperx]

OMG, Belle is too stupid to live. Seriously. What part of her being tricked into killing the same guy twice results in her hugging Rumple? No sense whatsoever, either in the plot or in Belle's head. At this point I can't even pity her for being with an irredeemable monster. She's codependent with him. Bleh. (And OMG, how did she not manage any shock at his arranging to murder her ex? Bet she wouldn't care that he murdered HIS ex a second time either!)

Edited April 11, 2016 by shipperx

[Last Time Lord]

I want her dead.

 

I want her evil!

 

This is no lie, the most interest I've had in Belle in years.

[Mari]

Maybe these guys should leave the Underworld. Rumbelle helps to destroy almost as many souls as the other guys save.  

That actually crossed my mind, too. If you're in Underbrooke and see Mr. or Mrs Stiltskin comingg, you should run the other way.

[Worsel]

I'm pretty sure I will be in the minority (or the only one) here, but I think a darker Belle would be interesting, as up to now she has been rather one note goody two shoes and thus a bit dull.  And making her darker will obviously make it easier for her to maintain a relationship with Rumple.  She didn't seem distressed about using the dagger to control Rumple as she had during the Frozen arc.  I predict she will become progressively darker.  

 

So Emma has precognition.  I wonder if this will ultimately help her defeat Hades.

 

Hades is still stalking Zelena, and if a dead flower isn’t creepy then I don’t know what is.  Although Zelena seemed to like it a lot.  Unfortunately Hades still has blue flaming hair.  Sadly, I believe the show is going to create that effect in every episode without fail.  Please show runners, save your CGI money and stop the flaming blue hair madness.

 

Favorite quotes are from Regina: “I’m glad your reflexes are better than your sense of style,” and Emma: “I don’t have any issues.”  I literally laughed out loud at that one.

 

Yay!  Red is back!  I can’t wait for next week just because of this.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Worsel

[mjgchick]

I saw it was Ruby during the dream because it not only looked like a giant dog but the giant dog looked like it was jumping on Ginny in a playful manner not killing Snow. Emma needs to chill. lol

[Sarcastica]

My initial thoughts on this episode: zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

Oh and Belle? Gurl bye. Stick with Rumple and be miserable together. 

[Mari]

I want her evil!

There's an argument to be made that she already is--she's just good at convincing herself she's not.

 

 

Am I the only one that had a brief, shining second where I thought it was Graham reference?  I know they couldn't afford the actor right now, but setting up basically a "Graham can move on" thing that would happen in Offscreenville?

[KingOfHearts]

 

Am I the only one that had a brief, shining second where I thought it was Graham reference?  I know they couldn't afford the actor right now, but setting up basically a "Graham can move on" thing that would happen in Offscreenville?

I wondered if it was Graham's wolf from S1.

 

 

I'm pretty sure I will be in the minority (or the only one) here, but I think a darker Belle would be interesting, as up to now she has been rather one note goody two shoes and thus a bit dull.  And making her darker will obviously make it easier for her to maintain a relationship with Rumple.

That is true and probably what this episode was attempting to accomplish. But Belle was so all over the place that it could have been handled far more elegantly. She would tell Rumple not to use dark magic, then say Merlin said it could be used for good or have Rumple use it to break into someone's locker. Then in the flashbacks, she relentlessly chose the non-violent approach for an idealism. She was so adamantly against arranged marriage, then she accepted Gaston's hand. (And later sold her future for her kingdom's a second time.) Her tune kept changing throughout the episode.

 

Dark Belle has been speculated for a while and it does work. It could be interesting if they dropped her whining about heroism. I'm so sick of her conflict, though.

 

 

Forcing Belle to acknowledge who Rumple really is, and what that means for who she is, has potential.

Part of me likes where Rumpbelle is going. Other parts of me find it disturbing. There will be plenty to talk about in the Relationships thread...

Edited April 11, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[tri4335]

Maybe Belle has been the Beast in the relationship and Rumple is the Beauty and that's been the shocking twist they've been planning all along???

[Rumsy4]

Oh, and obligatory Regina suck-up comment due to actual Snow White appearance:  Regina is an amazing, joyous, redemptive character who sparkles rainbows everywhere she goes.

 

Lol. Keep saying nice things about Regina, Mari. It's working like a charm!

 

I was actually dumbfounded that Belle tossed Gaston into the river of eternal torment, then turned to Rumple for a hug/comfort, and then had the audacity to argue that her child should be free now because Gaston was in the river.

 

I was literally disgusted. Who wrote this episode? 

[Mari]

I'm pretty sure I will be in the minority (or the only one) here, but I think a darker Belle would be interesting, as up to now she has been rather one note goody two shoes and thus a bit dull.  And making her darker will obviously make it easier for her to maintain a relationship with Rumple.  She didn't seem distressed about using the dagger to control Rumple as she had during the Frozen arc.  I predict she will become progressively darker.  

 

You're not alone.  The back and forth between Belle and Rumple had become tedious.  Forcing Belle to acknowledge who Rumple really is, and what that means for who she is, has potential.

 

I don't expect it to be fulfilled, but it's got potential.  (The story of so very many things about this show.  Sigh.)

Edited April 11, 2016 by Mari

[YaddaYadda]

I don't even know what to say about Belle. I know I'm done with her though. She and Rumple deserve each other. 

 

Nothing says I love you like a deader than dead flower because the hope has been sucked out of it. 

 

It's interesting that Belle's actions today actually set the would be undoing of the Underworld back.

Edited April 11, 2016 by YaddaYadda

[sharky]

I could never dislike Regina even close to how much I dislike Belle. Regina was never as stupid as Belle is and no one can ever convince me differently.

Regina may be a conniving witch with issues, but she created an entire evil curse with a whole damn town. I don't think Belle has the common sense to be that decisive about anything and properly execute a plan that won't go completely sideways. And seriously, if you're in danger do you want Regina or Belle on your side? If you are having trouble trying to figure the answer out, ask Gaston or even Neal who they would want on their side. At least two people have died because of her stupidity and all she does is shrug and says, "Oops."

[KateJones]

I honestly can't stand Belle. I don't know if it's that I have disliked EDR since Roswell. I kind of liked her on Lost but I just can't deal with Belle. She's insufferable and self righteous and dumb as rocks.

[Rumsy4]

I'm pretty sure I will be in the minority (or the only one) here, but I think a darker Belle would be interesting, as up to now she has been rather one note goody two shoes and thus a bit dull. 

 

I'll be totally down with this, as long as the Show owns it and doesn't try to convince me that Belle is a hero.

[Mabinogia]

I can't even. That was terrible!!!! Belle is the biggest fucking hypocrite to ever walk the earth. Gaston is evil! Hades is evil! Rumple is evil but it's okay because she loves him. WTF is that? I mean, she was stupid back when their story was "she knows he's bad but thinks there's a good man in there" but now their love story is "she knows he's an evil shit who will never ever change but that's okay because she loves him that way." That was a waste of most of the hour. It it weren't for the parts that weren't Rumbelle this episode would have made me give up on this show for good. I really can't take much more of them.

 

I'm actually looking forward to the next ep because it does not seem to be mostly about Rumbelle or Zades. Though, honestly, I'll even take Zades over Rumbelle any day.

 

I'd be fine with Dark Belle but that's not where they seem to be going. They seem to be going with Belle is so sweet she can even love a monster. Which...the fuck?

Edited April 11, 2016 by Mabinogia

[mjgchick]

Emma channeling her inner That's So Raven. If I knew any better I'd think the writers will have Emma become a very powerful wizard of some sort but meh.

[kili]

Gaston's soul drifts past Milah's

GASTON: Milah, what are you doing here? Last I saw you, you were helping kids across the street. What happened?

MILAH: Ran into my ex-husband, Rumple. How about you.

GASTON: Ran into his new wife.

 

Rumbelle - never content to murder you just once. 

[ABitOFluff]

No wonder no one has been interacting with Belle since she arrived in Underbrooke. Who would want to deal with her? Bye, girl. I really did want you to have some friends that weren't Rumple. That whole scene with the dagger and Gaston is going to bother me for awhile.

 

Does anyone find Killian's reaction to the squiggly lines rude now? Yeah, no hopefully or maybes with that plan.

 

I would have liked most of the show to be CS, Snow and Regina. That's the stuff is actually relevant to the plot. Sucks that they were the B plot.

[OnceUponAJen]

I want her evil!

This is no lie, the most interest I've had in Belle in years.

I actually wouldn't mind if they turned Belle into a more Lacey-like character. At least I wouldn't get whiplash watching her go back and forth with Rumple.

I loved the Nevengers working together. I really wish they would give us more of that rather than everyone breaking up and pursuing their own adventures. The hour went by fast and I didn't feel like much happened. I'm afraid they're going to run out of time at the end of the arc and end up rushing the resolution.

[Senna]

I wouldn't mind seeing a Belle who embraced the havoc she causes; that's what makes Rumple (... sometimes) fun.  It's obnoxious to see her continuing to abet evil while claiming that she's better than that.  She barely even cared that Rumple murdered her fiance!  But at this point Rumbelle just makes me roll my eyes, so whatever (to think, Skin Deep was my favorite season 1 episode).

 

I did like the other parts of the episode all right, little though they were.  I like Ruby/Red, so I look forward to wherever that's going.

 

EDIT:  I forgot to mention, per my closed captioning, Gaston's last name was ... LeGume?  Like ... a bean?  I was going to make a crack about this until I googled it, and apparently that's his official name in the Disney movie too!

Edited April 11, 2016 by Senna

[KingOfHearts]

 

Rumbelle - never content to murder you just once.

So Rumple and Belle both murdered their exes in the same week in a deal with Hades. Psychopaths.

 

 

(to think, Skin Deep was my favorite season 1 episode).

This episode changed my whole perspective of the Rumpbelle relationship. I can look back at Skin Deep and realize she was really just trying to get away from Gaston by running off with a bad boy.

Edited April 11, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[snarkastic]

Since the tornado was just bringing Ruby to the Underworld from Oz (so much for blood from someone who's been there and back) and therefore had nothing to do with Emma trying to wipe off the names from the tombstones, will anyone think to just go try that again next episode? I know, I'm hilarious.

[scenicbyway]

Is Robin still in the Underworld?

Here's what I found puzzling, Belle references a conversation with Hook about Liam passing on. So, at some point she and the Nevengers have hung out together, which probably means that they know about the baby, etc. Why then is Belle on her own adventure trying defeat Hades and Rumple? Shouldn't Charming and Robin atleast be her wingmen? This makes no sense that Emma, Snow and Killian would be off trying to destroy the stones if Belle's baby was in jeopardy! Why is no one hanging out with Belle?!

Gaston didn't deserve that fate. I guess this was meant to show that Rumple isn't the first monster she's chosen, I'm not sure what this is supposed to say about her character, knowingly choosing dangerous men and not because she thinks she can change them.

So the big ideas this week were to break open the elevator, which means they actually hit a brick wall, destroy some fake tombstones and hide from Red.

I hate this storyline so much.

[CheshireCat]

KingOfHearts, on 10 Apr 2016 - 9:41 PM, said:

So Rumple and Belle both murdered their exes in the same week in a deal with Hades. Psychopaths.

 

 

And Belle is the one still holding a grudge against Regina... Maybe she should take a long look into the mirror before passing any judgement on anyone. (And Regina didn't kill her, at least.)

[Mari]

And Belle is the one still holding a grudge against Regina...

Well, Belle has repeatedly valued how people treat her far more than how they treat others. 

 

Usually, when she leaves Rumple, it's not because he did something evilish, but because she didn't think he valued her enough.

 

 

 

Hey--does this mean Belle has a dark spot on her heart, now?  She did cause Gaston's death twice, now?  That should be worth one little dark spot.  After all, killing Cora so that she wouldn't kill everyone you love was worth a dark spot, albeit fleeting and temporary.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Mari

[scenicbyway]

So Henry writes in his sleep and Emma is having dreams that come true. There is our plan for getting out of the Underworld. Everyone take a nap.

Maybe the audience should too until 5.23?

[rainbowstickers]

Belle is all over the place in this episode. It's a bit of a train wreck. I do think flashback Belle was into something when she told her father that the war is their fault for how they've been treating the ogres. However, the way she was shoving this fact in his face didn't help the situation at all. What I see in Belle in this instance is she's being assertive and standing up for what she believes in, however, she's only one person and it can't be possible for just one person to settle the disputes with the ogres. Maybe it would have helped the situation as a whole if she tried to win her kingdom into having a different, more positive and non violent opinion of how to have peaceful relations with the ogres.

Rumple giving Belle a hard time about when she thinks it's ok to use dark magic vs when it's not ok is a fair point. Belle doesn't want him to use it to hurt people, yet she's fine with him using it to help her search through someone else's belongings. That's almost like telling someone not to lie but that it's ok to lie in some situations or for so and so reasons.

I was thoroughly shocked that Belle ended Gaston. In the aftermath, my interpretation of her reaction is that she was shocked she went that far for Rumple and their baby. She seemed resigned and horrified that she had it in her to do something like that when push comes to shove. The key emotion that led her to make that decision (killing Gaston), I think, was selfishness. She cared about Gaston and was insistent about helping him to move on, but I don't think she ever thought she'd be caught at the sidelines having to choose either Gaston or Rumple, and only being able to save one of them. In fact, I don't believe she fully thought about it. It was a heat of the moment decision where there was no time to carefully figure a calculated solution. I'm not in favor of Belle's actions, but I am definitely trying to understand where her mindset was when she did those things.

I hated Rumple hugging her after it though. I don't even know how to verbalize it right now, but the scene rubbed me the wrong way. And I knew from the minute Belle told him about the deal (the one she turned down from Hades) that Rumple was definitely NOT going to keep his promise about not hurting Gaston. Ugh.

I enjoyed Gaston and the anger he showed towards the book Belle took from his locker. I felt like there was still more to be explored with his unfinished business and what exactly could have helped him to move on. Belle only theorized that his unfinished business was her, and I honestly think it would have been interesting to have seen it. He hated the book because it represented the ideology of a compassionate and forgiving hero, which Belle looked up to, and I suppose that's something he once wanted to be in order to win Belle's affections, but trying to be a hero is what killed him in the first place. I do think he regretted what he did with the ogre, and perhaps that's why when he had another chance to face a monster (Rumplestiltskin after he took away Belle as a servant), he tried to be honorable about it by facing Rumple alone rather than with a whole army by his side. This is the part I don't get. How is facing Rumplestiltskin alone honorable? Did he seriously think facing the Dark One by himself was going to secure Belle's safe release?

[Shanna Marie]

I'd be fine with Dark Belle but that's not where they seem to be going. They seem to be going with Belle is so sweet she can even love a monster.

That's the problem. They'll never actually say that Belle is dark. I think we were supposed to see her as being in the right all along. It was Gaston's fault that the ogres attacked, since he tortured the ogre, and it was his fault that he fell in the River of Souls. If he hadn't kept trying to kill Rumple, she wouldn't have knocked him in while trying to defend Rumple. Mind you, she's defending the person who killed Gaston (well, sort of, but they didn't get into that part). So I think we were supposed to see that Belle was right all along and if people other than Rumple would just listen to her, it would be okay.

 

However, I think I'm pretty much done with her character.

 

I guess Hook forgot about meeting Red in her wolf form and knowing how to turn her human again from his time travel adventure. He was the one carrying the cloak and turning her back when they were getting into the castle, but he didn't seem to recognize it here.

 

Otherwise, I don't really have much to say.

[Writing Wrongs]

Belle and Rumple are starting to remind me of Cole and Phoebe from Charmed. Whom I hated.

 

I feel like this whole season hasn't really had much of a purpose. 

[tennisgurl]

So...what the hell lesson are we supposed to learn from this episode? Be merciful and compassionate...unless its against Gaston, because screw that guy? I mean, Belle did just knock him into a river of eternal torment, and she just kinda was...whatever about it. 

 

I had to roll my eyes at the "Gaston was an asshole the whole time" thing. So its totally ok that Rumple killed him! Between Rumple and Regina, half this show is parading random people who have been murdered, or watched their families get murdered, and explaing why they totally had it coming.

 

I hope Belle does go dark. Dark evil power couple Rumbelle sounds like a lot more fun than Belle being the dumbest person in the whole multiverse. 

 

And the Orgre Wars were started by mean, nasty humans, who probably cut the Orgre King off in traffic one day, and he started a 100 year long war against multiple kingdoms, and was totally justified! I really need some more details about this conflict. Is this one long ass conflict, or multiple smaller ones? How many kingdoms are fighting? Who are the Orgres, where do they come from? Are they smart? What do they want? This war keeps coming up, and we know nothing about it!

Edited April 11, 2016 by tennisgurl