All Episodes Talk: 48 Hours

[txhorns79]

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How does a convicted sex offender get a real estate license?  What genius thought it would be smart to give someone the ability to meet with persons in vacant homes who has been convicted of kidnap and rape? 

I'm pretty sure the show mentioned that even though he was arrested for sexual assault and kidnapping at 15, he only was convicted for the kidnapping charge.  I don't think he was on any sex offender list. 

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(Todd was born in 1971 so this would have been in 1980.  How the hell did a 9 year old in 1980 become preoccupied with sex?  This was before cable, before the internet.)  

My guess would be he saw pornographic magazines or had friends with access to pornographic magazines.       

[walnutqueen]

nevermind ...

Edited June 27, 2017 by walnutqueen

[ChristmasJones]

I would be interested to know if the reaction his mother was shown having in this interview is merely her initial response to learning about what her son has done, or if it is reflective of long-term patterns in how she responded to his behavior.

I would have very different opinions about her in each case.

[psychoticstate]

3 hours ago, ChristmasJones said:

I would be interested to know if the reaction his mother was shown having in this interview is merely her initial response to learning about what her son has done, or if it is reflective of long-term patterns in how she responded to his behavior.

I would have very different opinions about her in each case.

Good point, ChristmasJones.  I think she already knew; it was said that Todd told her something different than what he told the cops which was different from the actual reality.  It seems she decided to believe her son, who she knew had psychological, emotional and behavioral problems from a very young age and who had been convicted at fifteen as an adult for kidnap and rape.   I guess I'm amazed not only that she chose to believe his side (people with that many issues from that young of an age are typically liars - - which is oftentimes the least of their problems) but that she would defend his actions.  Yeah, he's her son but that doesn't mean she has to support and defend the horrible things he did. 

[txhorns79]

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It seems she decided to believe her son, who she knew had psychological, emotional and behavioral problems from a very young age and who had been convicted at fifteen as an adult for kidnap and rape.   I guess I'm amazed not only that she chose to believe his side (people with that many issues from that young of an age are typically liars - - which is oftentimes the least of their problems) but that she would defend his actions.  

He was only convicted for the kidnapping.  My impression from the episode was that she had been told a version of what had happened by him, and she was responding based on that version.  It wasn't clear to me that she knew the truth.  Now maybe you could say she didn't want to know the truth, and that's certainly possible.  However, it seems like this guy had fooled a lot of people with his façade of being a successful realtor, so perhaps his mother was taken in as well. 

[ChristmasJones]

I didn't view her as truly defending him. What I saw was a woman trying to mentally come to terms with the reality that her child was a violent serial killer.  That would be a huge thing to get your mind around and it would be normal for it to take time to really get to the point of accepting it was true. 

There are the well-known stages of grief - the first of which is denial. Grief does not progress in a linear fashion, people bounce back and forth through the stages over time, hopefully reaching a final point of resolution and acceptance, usually after much time when the loss is a big one. Learning that your own child is a serial killer is a huge loss. Its the loss of someone who she thought she knew. He is now a different, and very horrible, person. So as his mother she has to grieve that loss of the son she thought she knew.

Even if he did terrible things when he was younger, these new revelations would cause her to go through that grieving process again.

And then there is so much else for her to work through- feelings of guilt, wondering if she caused this, wondering if she could have prevented it, pain for the victims, feelings of shame and embarrassment for being his mother, etc.

The book by Dylan Klebold's mother is a great example of what a parent of someone who does such atrocious acts goes through.

All that being said, she might also be a horrible person herself. She might have a personality disorder, she might be a mean, nasty bitch. She also could have been a decent mother who didn't abuse or neglect him but just had a kid with bad genes and she didn't have the skills or resources to deal with him properly, and so she is a victim too. I don't know anything about her so I don't know.

But I can't feel confident making any assessment of her based on the few interview clips 48 Hours decided to show us.

I do think that most people put in her position would struggle to come to terms with it, and many would not be very eloquent when asked about it so early on.  Had she lived longer, it would be interesting to see a later interview with her and see what had changed.

I have always been very interested in the families of serious criminals. There was a great series on the ID Channel  a year or two ago which was hosted by a woman whose father was a serial killer. On the show, she traveled around the country interviewing the family members of serial killers and other criminals. I wish I could remember the name of it.

[ari333]

I'm backed up on the DVR, and catching up -  but that chick married to Dr Swartz (Strange Life of Dr Swartz) was a real piece of work.

[starri]

On 6/27/2017 at 8:39 PM, ChristmasJones said:

The book by Dylan Klebold's mother is a great example of what a parent of someone who does such atrocious acts goes through.

Sue Klebold did a few bone-headed things in the early days after Columbine, but she never went on TV and defended what he did.

I actually have a lot of sympathy for her.  She seemed like a well-intentioned, if clueless, mom.  I can't imagine her saying that Dylan was driven to slaughter people because someone made fun of him, which is what that vile woman said.

[txhorns79]

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I actually have a lot of sympathy for her.  She seemed like a well-intentioned, if clueless, mom.  I can't imagine her saying that Dylan was driven to slaughter people because someone made fun of him, which is what that vile woman said.

I don't know if that's entirely true.  In 2004, she and her husband said "their son was set off by the “toxic culture” of the school, where athletes were worshipped and bullying was tolerated."

[psychoticstate]

On 6/27/2017 at 5:39 PM, ChristmasJones said:

I didn't view her as truly defending him. What I saw was a woman trying to mentally come to terms with the reality that her child was a violent serial killer.  That would be a huge thing to get your mind around and it would be normal for it to take time to really get to the point of accepting it was true. 

There are the well-known stages of grief - the first of which is denial. Grief does not progress in a linear fashion, people bounce back and forth through the stages over time, hopefully reaching a final point of resolution and acceptance, usually after much time when the loss is a big one. Learning that your own child is a serial killer is a huge loss. Its the loss of someone who she thought she knew. He is now a different, and very horrible, person. So as his mother she has to grieve that loss of the son she thought she knew.

Respectfully disagree.  When you say that that a man abducted a woman and kept her chained in a storage container for 2 months because "he had to," because the woman had seen him murder her boyfriend it sounds an awful lot like defending an action.  Todd "didn't have to" abduct anyone and he certainly didn't have to murder anyone.  His mother also said that he, an adult, murdered 7 people because he was teased or made fun of by the victims.  Even if every one of these people made fun of Todd, which I highly doubt, that is no excuse to murder someone. 

 

22 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

In 2004, she and her husband said "their son was set off by the “toxic culture” of the school, where athletes were worshipped and bullying was tolerated."

Athletes being worshipped and bullying being tolerated was the norm when I was in high school.  I was actually bullied, although it was called "teasing" for me.  I was called names, had my hair and clothing pulled and was poked and prodded by one boy over the course of one semester.  I went to my guidance counselor who told me that he was just teasing me and he probably liked me.  The fact that I was in absolute tears and begging her to revise my schedule so I wouldn't share classes with him had no effect.  However, I did not kill or assault him or anyone else. 

While I do think that kids can be horrifically cruel (and there always have been mean kids) and the high school hierarchy is a thing in and of itself (it's easy to forget how devastating high school life can be) there was obviously something else going on with Dylan Klebold.  I do believe that without Eric Harris, he probably never would have become a murderer.  He might have harmed himself, since it seems he suffered from depression but I don't believe he would have harmed anyone else were it not for Harris' sociopathic influence.   Bottom line, though - - neither Klebold nor Harris had the right to kill and injure the many people they did.  Most of the victims, it seems, had no prior contact with either of them so it doesn't appear their violence was directed toward any one person in particular. 

[CaughtOnTape]

On 6/30/2017 at 5:49 PM, psychoticstate said:

While I do think that kids can be horrifically cruel (and there always have been mean kids) and the high school hierarchy is a thing in and of itself (it's easy to forget how devastating high school life can be) there was obviously something else going on with Dylan Klebold.  I do believe that without Eric Harris, he probably never would have become a murderer.  He might have harmed himself, since it seems he suffered from depression but I don't believe he would have harmed anyone else were it not for Harris' sociopathic influence.   Bottom line, though - - neither Klebold nor Harris had the right to kill and injure the many people they did.  Most of the victims, it seems, had no prior contact with either of them so it doesn't appear their violence was directed toward any one person in particular. 

Disagree.

Klebold is routinely painted as the follower who just did what Harris suggested.  He taunted and shot right along with Eric.  Looking at the video tape of them casing the cafeteria, his rifle pointed upwards, dressed in enough tactical gear to shock a Navy Seal and eyeing anything that moved....he was no follower.  He did what he did out of his own volition.  In fact any video that has come out of them he looks crazier than Harris does.

Susan Klebold may have been less insistent about it than this mother was, but she also slightly painted her son as not being at fault for his actions.  At least she was in the beginning.  She seems to have accepted now that he is a murderer.

[sskrill]

"Guilty until Proven Innocent" on ID channel (Hammond, Indiana case).  Jesus that cop was the worst.  "I'm not racist, I never called them niggers."  So I guess thats his criteria for determining someones bigotry?  

While describing the car full of men who bumped that womans car he kept calling them black men ... yeah we got that when you said "the car was occupied by three black men", you didn't need to say "one of the black men walked up to the car",  "the black man asked her if she was ok", "one of the black men came up behind her".   Yes, we got it, the car had 3 black men - you didn't need to keep using that qualifier every time you mentioned one of them.  

He still couldn't accept they were innocent even when DNA proved it wasn't them. 

[starri]

On 7/3/2017 at 2:57 PM, CaughtOnTape said:

Klebold is routinely painted as the follower who just did what Harris suggested.  He taunted and shot right along with Eric.  Looking at the video tape of them casing the cafeteria, his rifle pointed upwards, dressed in enough tactical gear to shock a Navy Seal and eyeing anything that moved....he was no follower.  He did what he did out of his own volition.  In fact any video that has come out of them he looks crazier than Harris does.

Harris designed the attack so that once they started, there was no backing out of it.  He obviously thought there was a chance Dylan would have second thoughts.

Had Harris not been in the picture, I don't think Dylan would have killed anyone other than himself.

This is not that I'm saying Dylan isn't culpable for his actions.  It is not me saying that he wasn't a messed up kid, just that I'm saying his issues would have probably been channeled toward self-harm but for Harris.

[psychoticstate]

22 hours ago, starri said:

Harris designed the attack so that once they started, there was no backing out of it.  He obviously thought there was a chance Dylan would have second thoughts.

Had Harris not been in the picture, I don't think Dylan would have killed anyone other than himself.

This is not that I'm saying Dylan isn't culpable for his actions.  It is not me saying that he wasn't a messed up kid, just that I'm saying his issues would have probably been channeled toward self-harm but for Harris.

Agree, @starri.  Exactly what I think and posted too.  Klebold was absolutely guilty but Harris was the driving force behind Columbine.  Harris was the leader, Klebold the follower.  

[CraftyHazel]

On 7/4/2017 at 0:08 AM, sskrill said:

"Guilty until Proven Innocent" on ID channel (Hammond, Indiana case).  Jesus that cop was the worst.  "I'm not racist, I never called them niggers."  So I guess thats his criteria for determining someones bigotry?  

While describing the car full of men who bumped that womans car he kept calling them black men ... yeah we got that when you said "the car was occupied by three black men", you didn't need to say "one of the black men walked up to the car",  "the black man asked her if she was ok", "one of the black men came up behind her".   Yes, we got it, the car had 3 black men - you didn't need to keep using that qualifier every time you mentioned one of them.  

He still couldn't accept they were innocent even when DNA proved it wasn't them. 

YES!!  Oh, that case bothered me so much!!  Those men were so clearly innocent, and yet they each spent 20-plus years in prison.  I cried when they were released AND exonerated.  Nothing can ever make up for what they were forced to endure, but I'd love to see them get a nice little chunk of change from the city/state where they live!

[walnutqueen]

On 7/3/2017 at 10:08 PM, sskrill said:

"Guilty until Proven Innocent" on ID channel (Hammond, Indiana case).  Jesus that cop was the worst.  "I'm not racist, I never called them niggers."  So I guess thats his criteria for determining someones bigotry?  

He even said "I haven't used that word in 20 years".  News flash, douchecanoe - it wasn't EVER OK, but certainly not in the late 1990s.

 

58 minutes ago, Marmiarmo said:

YES!!  Oh, that case bothered me so much!!  Those men were so clearly innocent, and yet they each spent 20-plus years in prison.  I cried when they were released AND exonerated.  Nothing can ever make up for what they were forced to endure, but I'd love to see them get a nice little chunk of change from the city/state where they live!

Maher gave a little blurb at the end about 2,000 prisoners having been exonerated by DNA evidence, and they had served a total of more than 20,000 years in prison (or something like that).  The point was that while it seems fairly easy to convict an innocent person, it is extremely difficult to reverse that conviction.

VICE had a segment on the underfunded and overworked Public Defender system, and how badly people who can't afford private representation fare within the justice system (often languishing in jail for many months before even getting a hearing or a 2 minute consult with their court appointed attorney).  It was shocking and truly disheartening,  Money really DOES buy you "justice".

Edited July 7, 2017 by walnutqueen

[ari333]

On ‎6‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 4:06 PM, psychoticstate said:

So I Googled Todd Kohlhepp because I wanted to be sure that I understood from the program that he was a realtor and I am floored. 

How does a convicted sex offender get a real estate license?  What genius thought it would be smart to give someone the ability to meet with persons in vacant homes who has been convicted of kidnap and rape? 

Beyond that . . . it appears that Todd was violent and troubled from jump.  In nursery school, he was violent toward other children and destroyed their property. He was in counseling at nine and was apparently "explosive" and "preoccupied with sexual content."  (Todd was born in 1971 so this would have been in 1980.  How the hell did a 9 year old in 1980 become preoccupied with sex?  This was before cable, before the internet.)   This was the same year that he began displaying cruelty, including killing, toward animals.  These are all earmarks to being a sexual predator.   

He was apparently sent to a mental hospital in Georgia for over 3 months, where he was an inpatient, because he couldn't get along with other children (not because he was killing, I guess.)  He then was packed up to Arizona to live with his father, where he was taught to collect weapons and how to make bombs and blow things up.  Marvy.  

All this was BEFORE he kidnapped a 14 year old girl (when he was fifteen) by threatening her with a gun, tying her up, taping her mouth and raping her. 

He should NEVER get out.

And no, his mother was not directly responsible for what he did.  But she sure as shit didn't need to participate in an interview in which she rationalized the disgusting things her son did.  It's one thing to say "he's my son, always will be my son" or even the old standby "he was always such a good boy," but quite another to suggest that murder victims had picked on her adult son (thereby forcing him to do what he did) or that her son had no choice but to chain a young woman in a storage container because he'd killed her boyfriend in her presence.  But hey, he treated her well!   

His mother seemed to have completely disassociated herself with the brutal reality of what her son did.  He murdered seven people for no reason.   No reason whatsoever, other than he's a violent, brutal POS.  I don't believe that the young couple from 2015 pulled a knife of him.  Nope.   I don't believe the motorbike placed laughed and made fun of him for not being able to ride the bike he purchased.  I know people that work in that industry.  It happens.  They wouldn't laugh at him; they would simply try to help him ride it or choose another bike. Dipshit couldn't come up with an explanation for why he killed Kala's boyfriend.  But he sure could laugh about it, couldn't he?   Nope.  He killed seven people.  He didn't cut them off in traffic.  He didn't curse at them or flick them off.  He executed them and made sure they would never take another breath.  And before he did that to Megan Leigh (can't remember her last name), he chained her in a storage container, raped her and kept her like that for a week.   How Todd's mother could EVER have come up with any kind of excuse for what he did is sickening.

Were his records sealed for the things he did when he was under 18? If so, that was clearly not good

The mother gave me the goosey chills. and that Todd was ... no words.

I agree with him. SOmeone should take him out back.

[ari333]

Quote

 

Cant get the quote box off sorry,

 

I'm watching the Skylar and Danielle one now, Hmmm.

[ari333]

So Skylar shot Danielle square in the back of the head by accident? Why aim a gun at your wife for any reason? GMAFB

[One Tough Cookie]

1 hour ago, ari333 said:

Cant get the quote box off sorry,

 

I'm watching the Skylar and Danielle one now, Hmmm.

I think he did it on purpose. He was so scripted and rehearsed, even to his outbursts in the police car which seemed fake to me.  I think he had a hair trigger temper and was annoyed about the liquor and maybe he wanted her to get off the computer faster than she did. I would have had no trouble convicting on 1st degree.

As to the murdering real estate agent.  I usually don't watch epis that include women being held captive, it's way too upsetting so I went back and just watched it. That POS deserved the death penalty HARD.  And his mother?  For all her crying I didn't see one single tear.

It is really scary that people with problems have access to guns. I am not trying to start a debate or anything, I'm just stunned at how many needless deaths there are, and all the carnage left behind.

Edited July 9, 2017 by One Tough Cookie

[LGGirl]

I've seen the Skylar episode before.  I could not stop looking at his eyebrows and how they were groomed.  Idk why it creeped me out. 

Skylar's mother was a piece of work.  Danielle was just a poor kid who desperately wanted a family and to be loved.  

I think the jury got it right on the one.  

[ButterQueen]

14 hours ago, One Tough Cookie said:

I think he did it on purpose. He was so scripted and rehearsed, even to his outbursts in the police car which seemed fake to me.  I think he had a hair trigger temper and was annoyed about the liquor and maybe he wanted her to get off the computer faster than she did. I would have had no trouble convicting on 1st degree.

 

Skylar is a piece of shit murderer.  The jury got it completely wrong.  His text messages showed his anger and control issues.  Ugh!!  Another killer will get a chance to kill again.

[Ohmo]

I do not believe a single thing that Shayna Hubers says.  That girl should be locked up and kept far away from civilized society.  She's dangerous and mentally ill.   Narcissism is a hallmark of mental illness, and so is exaggeration and outright lying.

I would be absolutely furious if I were a member of Ryan's family.  They have to go through this again because a felon ended up on the jury?!  How the heck did that happen?

Hopefully Shayna will be convicted again.  I'm glad she's not out on bond.  I had forgotten how nuts her mother also is since the last time 48 Hours aired this case.

[Ohmo]

Quote

The juror in question said he fell behind on child support payments more than 20 years ago, doesn’t remember pleading guilty in the case and didn’t realize he was a convicted felon.

Shayna Hubers Granted New Trial After Juror Who Helped Convict Her Revealed to Be Felon
 

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A Kentucky notary faces charges in connection with forged signatures on a petition to move a high-profile murder retrial.

News outlets report Brittany Young pleaded not guilty to 28 counts of felony forgery on Tuesday. Police documents show that Young confessed to collecting only three authentic signatures for the petition to move Shayna Hubers' retrial out of northern Kentucky.

Notary charged in Shayna Hubers retrial's forged petition

Edited July 16, 2017 by Ohmo

[CraftyHazel]

Well, Shayna was a real piece of work!  Not one expression of remorse at any point in time.  She's actually scary, and I sure hope she gets another conviction with a much stiffer sentence. She should never be out of prison again.  I've rarely felt such a visceral reaction to someone on one of these shows before, but I see nothing about her that is redeemable in any way.

Ryan and that whole family were great looking.  Wow.

[CelticBlackCat]

I hope the same prosecutor, Michelle Snodgrass, handles the second trial.  I don't see why she wouldn't as she did a great job and I really liked her.  Shayna Hubers and her mother are both psycho nuts.  Second trial:  I hope she gets an even longer sentence!

[Ohmo]

8 hours ago, CelticBlackCat said:

I hope the same prosecutor, Michelle Snodgrass, handles the second trial.

She reminded me of Kelly Siegler in terms of toughness and attitude (Kelly's positive qualities).  I also hope that Michelle handles the prosecution again.  She seems to see right through Shayna's bullshit.

It also bugs me that Ryan's ownership of guns is being used to paint him in a bad light.  I'm not a gun owner, nor do I want one, but it was Ryan's right to have one.  He was also a single guy with no children.  Bullets on a bookshelf would not have been MY decorating choice, but it was Ryan's condo.  He could decorate the way that he wanted.  I also don't believe that he threatened Shayna with a gun at any time.  I just don't.  If he were that type of person, I don't think he would have retreated to his bedroom and locked the door.   She also picked the lock, which points to her obsession with him.  One frighteningly unstable woman.

[txhorns79]

Quote

It also bugs me that Ryan's ownership of guns is being used to paint him in a bad light.  I'm not a gun owner, nor do I want one, but it was Ryan's right to have one. 

It's a mixed bag.  I did think he was somewhat careless in his gun ownership.  A responsible gun owner doesn't leave out ammo or their gun out on a table where anyone can grab it.  It doesn't mean he deserved to die or anything like that, but he certainly made it very easy for Shayna to get a weapon and go after him. 

[Ohmo]

2 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

It's a mixed bag.  I did think he was somewhat careless in his gun ownership.  A responsible gun owner doesn't leave out ammo or their gun out on a table where anyone can grab it.  It doesn't mean he deserved to die or anything like that, but he certainly made it very easy for Shayna to get a weapon and go after him. 

That's a different issue than the one I'm talking about.  I mean there seems to be the notion that just because Ryan had a gun that he MUST have been threatening or intimidating Shayna with guns.  In fact, the opposite seemed to be true.  He seemed to be showing tremendous restraint that ultimately led to his death.  He retreated on her.  He wasn't the aggressor.  If I had a gun, I would have been very tempted to fire on her the moment that she picked the lock and got in.  That, to me, is an indication of a serious threat---to continue to break in and not leave the condo.  Yet, he probably felt that he couldn't defend himself because he was the guy and no one would believe that she was the threat that she actually was.. I agree that Ryan was careless with having the guns lying around, but I don't like the notion that "the guy is the aggressor because he has a gun."  He clearly wasn't, and I think he tried so hard not to be the aggressor...too hard, in fact, and he lost his life because of it.

Edited July 16, 2017 by Ohmo

[seasons]

I found it disturbing how Shayna's mother kept referring to herself as "Mommy". As in, " Shayna needs her Mommy". I know some adults call their parents Mommy and Daddy, but in this case, it felt really unbalanced. And part of a much bigger picture.

Edited July 16, 2017 by seasons

[CelticBlackCat]

Let's face it, Shayna's mother is a whackadoodle in denial and such, and Shayna is a narcissistic obsessive nutjob.

[Madding crowd]

Shayna reminds me of Jodi Arias with the obsession and on again off again relationship.

[Guest]

On ‎7‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 5:54 PM, seasons said:

I found it disturbing how Shayna's mother kept referring to herself as "Mommy". As in, " Shayna needs her Mommy". I know some adults call their parents Mommy and Daddy, but in this case, it felt really unbalanced. And part of a much bigger picture.

Something else I picked up on - she sure scrunched her face to appear as if she was crying but there wasn't a tear in sight.

Mom also looked like a reject from a casting call of the Wizard of Oz. 

[biakbiak]

22 minutes ago, PsychoKlown said:

Mom also looked like a reject from a casting call of the Wizard of Oz. 

I thought if they ever made a movie Amy Sedaris should play her.

I am not blaming him but I hated how they said there was nothing he could do. While it sounds like they need to reform the laws surrounding restraining orders there were many things he could have done. From blocking her number, to changing the locks, to not opening the door, but most especially not invite her to his parents for dinner and then sleep with her!

Everyone needs to trust their instincts and do what they can to protect themselves.

[torqy]

16 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

Shayna reminds me of Jodi Arias with the obsession and on again off again relationship.

I turned to Mrs. Torqy and said "that girl's Jodi Arias all over again." The only difference is that Shayna lacked the dead, shark-like eyes of Jodi, with crazy-eyes instead. I think Shayna and "Mommy" could put the fun back in dysfunction. Definitely some freaky vibes in that family.

[CelticBlackCat]

On 7/17/2017 at 6:32 PM, PsychoKlown said:

Something else I picked up on - she sure scrunched her face to appear as if she was crying but there wasn't a tear in sight.

Mom also looked like a reject from a casting call of the Wizard of Oz. 

I thought the same thing about that woman.  She looked like she belonged in Munchkinland.

[nora1992]

Did anyone else see the rerun of the New York kayaking case?  I don't believe it was murder, and this case is the last straw in persuading me to NEVER talk to the police without a lawyer present.  Did the ME even look at a kayak to determine where the plug was before coming to the conclusion of murder?  She probably removed the plug, but she didn't pour the alcohol down his throat and prevent him from wearing a life jacket.  This was a stupid, senseless accident.  If she really wanted him dead, why call 911 at all?  Why not wait until she knew it was too late, than come up with a sob-story after reaching land?  Did anyone investigating this bother to test a kayak before rushing to judgment?

[walnutqueen]

45 minutes ago, nora1992 said:

Did anyone else see the rerun of the New York kayaking case?  I don't believe it was murder, and this case is the last straw in persuading me to NEVER talk to the police without a lawyer present.  Did the ME even look at a kayak to determine where the plug was before coming to the conclusion of murder?  She probably removed the plug, but she didn't pour the alcohol down his throat and prevent him from wearing a life jacket.  This was a stupid, senseless accident.  If she really wanted him dead, why call 911 at all?  Why not wait until she knew it was too late, than come up with a sob-story after reaching land?  Did anyone investigating this bother to test a kayak before rushing to judgment?

I didn't bother watching again - the first time around was enough to convince me this young lady was hosed.

NEVER talk to cops.  EVER.

[ButterQueen]

On 6/28/2017 at 4:58 PM, ari333 said:

I'm backed up on the DVR, and catching up -  but that chick married to Dr Swartz (Strange Life of Dr Swartz) was a real piece of work.

I just finished watching this.  OMG!  The wife clearly had him killed.  She's horrible.

[ari333]

Anyone see , "Last Chance for Freedom?" 

[kathyk24]

On ‎6‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 4:06 PM, psychoticstate said:

So I Googled Todd Kohlhepp because I wanted to be sure that I understood from the program that he was a realtor and I am floored. 

How does a convicted sex offender get a real estate license?  What genius thought it would be smart to give someone the ability to meet with persons in vacant homes who has been convicted of kidnap and rape? 

Beyond that . . . it appears that Todd was violent and troubled from jump.  In nursery school, he was violent toward other children and destroyed their property. He was in counseling at nine and was apparently "explosive" and "preoccupied with sexual content."  (Todd was born in 1971 so this would have been in 1980.  How the hell did a 9 year old in 1980 become preoccupied with sex?  This was before cable, before the internet.)   This was the same year that he began displaying cruelty, including killing, toward animals.  These are all earmarks to being a sexual predator.   

He was apparently sent to a mental hospital in Georgia for over 3 months, where he was an inpatient, because he couldn't get along with other children (not because he was killing, I guess.)  He then was packed up to Arizona to live with his father, where he was taught to collect weapons and how to make bombs and blow things up.  Marvy.  

All this was BEFORE he kidnapped a 14 year old girl (when he was fifteen) by threatening her with a gun, tying her up, taping her mouth and raping her. 

He should NEVER get out.

And no, his mother was not directly responsible for what he did.  But she sure as shit didn't need to participate in an interview in which she rationalized the disgusting things her son did.  It's one thing to say "he's my son, always will be my son" or even the old standby "he was always such a good boy," but quite another to suggest that murder victims had picked on her adult son (thereby forcing him to do what he did) or that her son had no choice but to chain a young woman in a storage container because he'd killed her boyfriend in her presence.  But hey, he treated her well!   

His mother seemed to have completely disassociated herself with the brutal reality of what her son did.  He murdered seven people for no reason.   No reason whatsoever, other than he's a violent, brutal POS.  I don't believe that the young couple from 2015 pulled a knife of him.  Nope.   I don't believe the motorbike placed laughed and made fun of him for not being able to ride the bike he purchased.  I know people that work in that industry.  It happens.  They wouldn't laugh at him; they would simply try to help him ride it or choose another bike. Dipshit couldn't come up with an explanation for why he killed Kala's boyfriend.  But he sure could laugh about it, couldn't he?   Nope.  He killed seven people.  He didn't cut them off in traffic.  He didn't curse at them or flick them off.  He executed them and made sure they would never take another breath.  And before he did that to Megan Leigh (can't remember her last name), he chained her in a storage container, raped her and kept her like that for a week.   How Todd's mother could EVER have come up with any kind of excuse for what he did is sickening.

This case made me so mad because of the cops attempting to blame the bike shop murders on Scott's widow Melissa. I would have sued for emotional distress if I was in her shoes. It also made me wonder if there are any innocent people in prison due to botched evidence the way the cops botched her baby's DNA test.