S04.E04: Chloramphenicol

[VCRTracking]

3) Oleg signed Nina's death warrant... once his dad saw that Oleg loved her enough to give up on his beloved Amerikanski lifestyle, he had to make sure Nina didn't make it out alive. Sigh.

 

 

I don't know. I think he did want to his son to come back and that Nina had already pissed off the higher ups into fast tracking her execution.

 

‘The Americans’ Star Annet Mahendru on Nina’s Last Stand

[Umbelina]

Reading that Q & A, led me to read about the book that reveal that method of execution, which led me to read about the guy the book was written about which took me to wikipedia.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Vetrov

 

I'm putting it here because the timeline jives with RIGHT now on the show, with this KGB guy giving away all of the technology information to the west, and makes me think about two things.  One, the guy the Russian's captured, and Nina dreamed of rescuing, and Two, spies were being really burned by this guy, but mostly in his own department.  Still, leaky leaky about exposing people.  I wonder if more than just the execution style will tie into the show?

[jjj]

I really don't care about the glanders storyline, but also wanted to note that the reason they all survived exposure was that they all had been vaccinated in advance of coming into contact with the vial, in the first episode.  So, I don't know what William was adding, but supposedly, they had some kind of inoculation in advance. 

 

Add me to the list of those who involuntarily shouted "NOOOOOooooooo" at the television and scared my cat into levitating. And I really kept waiting for it to turn into another dream.  But no.  Damn. 

 

She had only been there a few months, right?  I forget which month she was apprehended. 

[Bannon]

I think this show, which I nearly have given up on a couple times, has improved, whether by design or by accident. The writers aren't regularly portraying the FBI and CIA as being mostly populated by people who couldn't beat my dog at checkers, so that is a massive improvement. The Life of Sad Sack Stan can no longer be thought of as a subtitle, and that has improved things.

We'll see how they advance Martha's story. In real life, agents working counterintelligence, learning of the boss's secretary admitting to a secret affair, in the context of a planted bug in the office, and a subsequent "suicide", would go on red alert. Recruitment via sexual involvement is the oldest technique in the trade, and Martha would either be under 24 hour surveillance, phone and apartment bugged, and/or be immediatedly transferred, and incessantly grilled, with the demand that she reveal her lover's identity.

Hopefully, the writers won't revert to previous form, and have the FBI not being able to execute a stakeout, or CIA agents letting strangers traipse through their homes during a realtor's open house. Or have, in the worst action movie trope employed, a 125 pound woman knocking the snot out of much bigger men who are reasonably fit and have received some training in how to handle themselves. I've said from season one that this show needs more LeCarre, and less Ludlum, and they have thankfully moved in that direction this year

[BW Manilowe]

RIP Nina. You did your best with what you had to work with, but everything was against you. Anton is too valuable still to kill...was probably told that Nina was moved to another facility, and that his continued cooperation would ensure that she survives.

Watching Philip watch Elizabeth, who was fever-soaked, you get the sense that he is so done with this life. It's not the killings that bug him, it's the possible loss of his children and Elizabeth. It's why I am never on the Philip train, and root for Stan, even though I dislike him. Philip has killed so many times, and it doesn't impact him, he can compartmentalize his brutality. And he is a brutal killer. As is Elizabeth. As for EST causing his first kill to resurface in his memory...that is all about Philip. No thought about his other killings of the inconvenient, or even Anton, whom he shipped off to Russia, separating him forever from his children.

I love the show, but I have zero sympathy for either Elizabeth or Philip...I have no sympathy for cartel killers or contract murderers either...or their family feelings.

Gabriel can rot and die. And William, who traffics in deadly toxins, richly deserves his lonely, desperate existence.

Hot damn, Martha can lie with the best of them. Is Aldershot buying it? You see the wheels turning in his head, totally reevaluating old Martha. But perhaps not in the way she intends. He's shrewder that Stan, and he may be piecing together Stan's suspicions with this new info.

Actors one and all are killing it...top work all hands.

His name's Aderholt, not Aldershot.

[jjj]

That's *Agent* Aderholt!  ;-)

[Trillian]

I thought for sure that Stan would find a photo of Martha and Phillip in her apartment. Didn't she have a wedding photo, or something, in a frame

on a shelf? I kept waiting for that.

Yes to that. When Stan walked into the apartment, I said, oh my God, he's going to find the wedding picture, which Martha keeps out. Then when he started going through her drawers, I said, oh my God, he's going to find the wedding picture, which Martha sometimes tucks into a drawer. Then,when he left, I said, why hasn't he found the wedding picture?

Where's the goddamn wedding picture?

I can't believe that's an oversight in a series with such great, tight writing. Has Martha moved the picture to "Clark's" apartment? Or is its absence a sign of something else? I'm starting to wonder if Martha is indeed smarter than I've given her credit for.

And I hate Stan.

[Ina123]

I think Oleg, if he finds out about Nina, tells Dad he's leaving. Comes back to the US and becomes a double agent.

But I'm wondering, does Oleg know about Phillip and Elizabeth? Obviously, if he does, they can't make him a double agent. But gee, it would add a whole new dimension to the story. Dang, I just can't remember if he knows. Someone enlighten me.

I also think for the work that he seems to do, Gabriel has a really spartan apartment. Maybe he likes to feel he's back in the old country?

[SlackerInc]

Good interview about this with the showrunners here, for those interested.

 

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/04/06/americans-nina-dead

 

Yeah, that was great.  I almost didn't read it because I had already read the Sepinwall one, but it's not just a rehash.  One really interesting part was an insight into a shift they see themselves as making:

 

We plotted the show much more episodically the first season. As we moved into the second season, we really moved away from that into a much more serialized way and also tried to shift to make the show more realistic.

 

 

That's such a strange statement.  I wonder if Weisberg had a brain fart and actually meant the third season?  Because some of the stuff with Larrick was a little on the "superspy" side; but most importantly, the whole Jared thing was the least realistic move this show has ever made.

 

As a big fan of Breaking Bad, something Weisberg said in the Sepinwall interview jumped out at me:

 

99 out of 100 things (FX boss) John Landgraf says to us really hit home to us. But one thing he said sent shivers down our spine. He says, "Paint yourselves into a corner, story-wise, and just see how you get out." And I think Joel and I are like (frightened voice), "We're not that kind of people!"

 

Vince Gilligan has said many times that this is his preferred mode of operation in the writers' room, so it's pretty interesting that these guys are so opposed to it.  But again, I've got to call BS when it comes to the Jared storyline.  If they had that planned all season, they unfolded it really poorly.

 

1) I laughed when Stan used the Polaroid camera to make sure he didn't miss putting anything back in its place at Martha's apartment. My uncle was an FBI agent in the 1970s-1980s, and that's a trick he told us about years later, after he had retired. Too bad for Polaroid (and Kodak) that FBI agents can probably use their phones for that now.

2) Martha is SO SMART to come up with that "married man" line. Brilliant. (And more true than she knows!)

3) Oleg signed Nina's death warrant... once his dad saw that Oleg loved her enough to give up on his beloved Amerikanski lifestyle, he had to make sure Nina didn't make it out alive. Sigh.

 

1) Ahhh...I didn't catch that this was what he was doing.  I thought it was just a case of taking photos for evidence.  Makes sense!

 

2) Agree 100%.  She has come a long way!  She seemed like such a dimwit in the pilot (which I rewatched recently).

 

3) Interesting theory.  I didn't interpret it that way, but you could be right.

 

Yes to that. When Stan walked into the apartment, I said, oh my God, he's going to find the wedding picture, which Martha keeps out. Then when he started going through her drawers, I said, oh my God, he's going to find the wedding picture, which Martha sometimes tucks into a drawer. Then,when he left, I said, why hasn't he found the wedding picture?

Where's the goddamn wedding picture?

I can't believe that's an oversight in a series with such great, tight writing. Has Martha moved the picture to "Clark's" apartment? Or is its absence a sign of something else? I'm starting to wonder if Martha is indeed smarter than I've given her credit for.

And I hate Stan.

 

Philip told Martha he couldn't come back to that apartment any more.  So he presumably took every trace of himself out of it, including obviously the wedding photo.

[Ellaria]

We'll see how they advance Martha's story. In real life, agents working counterintelligence, learning of the boss's secretary admitting to a secret affair, in the context of a planted bug in the office, and a subsequent "suicide", would go on red alert. Recruitment via sexual involvement is the oldest technique in the trade, and Martha would either be under 24 hour surveillance, phone and apartment bugged, and/or be immediatedly transferred, and incessantly grilled, with the demand that she reveal her lover's identity.

 

I agree. Hopefully, Aderholt and Stan share this opinion as well. With the knowledge of a "married lover," she would be under scrutiny or should be. Stan seems to waking up from his seasons-long slumber and is starting to believe that a traitor is among them. I guess that the next step is to follow Martha when she heads over to Phillip/Clarke's apartment one night. She is in over her head even though she may not realize yet. 

 

Poor Nina but it was a long time coming. Hoping that this turn of events expands Oleg's storyline. Still not sure if his father played a role in the timing of Nina's execution. He knew that Oleg had strong feelings for her and that she would be his son's downfall. Regardless, Oleg isn't going to be happy.

 

Paige was superb when she defended her parents' absence to Stan (aka Henry's BFF). It will be interesting to see if that conversation comes back to haunt P&E. 

 

Excellent episode. Everything that this show does well was on display last night.

Edited April 7, 2016 by Ellaria Sand

[pomme de terre]

The (cute) bowling scene reminded me of a quibble I've had about the Jennings kids -- given that their parents are strong and smart enough to evade danger for decades, shouldn't their kids be super-genius athletic freaks? Shouldn't Paige be taking college math classes if her father can calculate the angle of communications satellites in the field? Shouldn't Henry's ice hockey skills be drawing the attention of NHL scouts if his mother has the coordination and grit to beat two grown men into submission? Besides their legit American-ness, I imagine the Centre knows they might have inherited the best of their parents, which would make them outstanding spies.

I get that a lot of the show's tension lies between the ordinary kids and their extraordinary parents, but it would be interesting to see what would happen if the kids started garnering attention on their own, which they would almost certainly do if they are born of two of Mother Russia's most outstanding children.

[RedHawk]

That's *Agent* Aderholt! ;-)

When will we feel we know him well enough to call him "Dennis"?

[Macbeth]

I love this show.  But I was having trouble sleeping - so I decided to watch the episode - and that was a mistake.

 

I always loved Nina's story - the actress was fantastic.  So Nina dies right after Oleg's papa became involved.  I am not sure story wise Nina would have died if Papa hadn't intervened.  She would have been killed immediately if that had been the case.  She was never going to be free.  She would break the rules, be put in time out, then put back to work spying.

 

But they did really need to kill her to get some necessary drama with the Rezidentura - because that part of the show was dragging for me.

[RedHawk]

In addition to the wedding photo, there's the ring Martha keeps in a box by the door and puts on when she gets home. Was the ring also taken to Clark's?

Funniest moment of the episode: After Elizabeth bowled six strikes in a row, wide-eyed Paige asked her mother, "Did they teach you how to do that?" and Elizabeth, in her best "Natasha" accent!, said, "Vital part of training." Elizabeth made a spycraft joke! That near-death experience really changed her. And truly, making that joke with Paige -- has there ever been a deeper bonding moment between them? Paige has no idea the corner her mother has turned emotionally.

I was in tears or near tears most of this episode. When Elizabeth remembered nursing her possibly dying mother and realized she had not told Paige she loved her and had not given her any "instructions" for what to do if she and Philip never returned, it gutted me. And also E knowing that Paige would think their disappearance/death was somehow her fault for telling Pastor Tim. Elizabeth's mother told her she was a "good girl" and Elizabeth had not told Paige that either.

I think Elizabeth now believes that yes, her mother loved her, and yes, she sent that message of love to E and Paige from her deathbed.

Edited April 7, 2016 by RedHawk

[benteen]

I knew Nina was going to be shot in the back of the head.  There was a TV movie set in the Soviet Union in the 80s or 90s that ended exactly in that way.  I'm sad to see her go and I like Annet Mahendru.  I've seen the actress in interviews and she's a hoot, talking about how crappy Nina's life was.  The end sequence was very well done but I have to say, I'm frustrated with Nina's storyline.

 

Last season, I was frustrated that Nina's storyline didn't go anywhere and figured it would lead to something big this season.  But it led nowhere and to me, they wasted a lot of story time with her character.  They could have wrapped up her character arc in the first four episodes of last season.  What purpose did it serve to drag this out for a 1 1/3 seasons?  I don't believe the writers when they said this was the plan.  To me, it seems like they wanted to do something with her character but ultimately couldn't decide what that was.  So they just wrote her out this season when they should have done it last season.  Her death was realistic and well-done but it should have been taken care of long before Season 4.

 

The rest of the episode was really good.  Dylan Baker has been a terrific addition to this show and adds some much-needed humor to things.  I actually feel a little bad for this lonely traitor.  Loved the Jennings bowling scene and the Martha storyline continues to be interesting.

 

I agree that Elizabeth and Philip have long ago used by their goodwill with the Center and I don't buy them being able to continue making these kind of demands.

[RedHawk]

I was bored by Nina's story line when she was first in prison and had to get the other girl to confess, but after that I got interested again and feel it added another dimension to the show. Intriguing thought that Oleg's father might got her execution fast-tracked intentionally. At this point I think whatever attempt he made to help her was too late. Or maybe he tried to pull strings but didn't have enough influence (like when he tried to pressure Arkady to send Oleg back and Arkady resisted), or perhaps he pissed off someone with his attempt, so they said, "Ugh, I don't want this hassle. It's time to get rid of her."

Edited April 7, 2016 by RedHawk

[mrsdalgliesh]

Thanks to the person who posted the link to the showrunners' interview.  This quote is exactly what I was trying to express earlier in the thread:

 

And we’ll get back to the staging of the scene, but I just want to go back to her story real quick: Was there any concern that Nina’s storyline might now feel like a bit of a dead end, so to speak, because she went on this long journey apart from the other characters and never intersected with them again? One might ask: What was the point of her incarceration, this seeming detour, that as it turned out, wasn’t a detour at all?

 

FIELDS: I don’t think we struggled with that question, because it didn’t feel like a detour to us, for two primary reasons: One, she’s a very important character, so it never felt like we were going away to explore some ancillary drama that didn’t have to do with anything. And two, in those final arcs of her story, she’s undergoing real character exploration and transformation that reflects emotionally and thematically on all the characters on the show. So it felt to us very much a part of the rest of the drama, even though it wasn’t being played out directly with the other characters.

[RedHawk]

I agree that Martha's story about an affair should raise even more suspicions and probably lead to her being openly questioned by Gaad. A secret like that was something that could be used against her in a blackmail situation, and it was the sort of thing looked for in background checks. It's quite a web actually. When interviewed for a background check, you are supposed to divulge anything about yourself that could later be used against you. And then as an FBI employee, you're not supposed to put yourself in compromising situations. So perhaps Martha, knowing that, made a chess move against Aderholt's suspicious dinner invitation and revealed to him her covert behavior, something that would explain her giving off suspiciously odd and distant vibes to others in her office. Yet she has to know, because she would have been trained when she was hired, that confessing a married lover could lead to further investigation because it was indeed a possible security risk situation.

 

On one level she's telling Aderholt, "Hey, you seem like a nice guy, but I'm not available and I'm going to trust you enough to tell you why." Is she maybe not just trying to throw off Aderholt's suspicions, but also trying to get herself fired or setting up a resignation? She knows that would end her spying career but also her relationship with Clark. She probably also knows it might end her life. 

 

Then I have a thought. She left all those desperate messages with the Centre. She seems sure that "someone" is listening, not just Clark's answering machine, although she also fears that her phone might be bugged by the other (her own) side. So when the Centre gets these messages, did they really let her dangle in the wind, or in that one-hour window did they send Hans over to coach her? She had already "met" him as a "friend" of Clark, so would she trust him to help her? I don't think that happened, but I am wondering how the Centre could just let her wing the situation on her own.

 

Speaking of Hans, remember that he has watched Martha's apartment and once waived Philip off because he spotted Stan going in. Someone above mentioned Stan tracking Martha to Clark's place. Hans or someone else should be watching that place as well. Our next episode is in fact titled "Clark's Place".

Edited April 7, 2016 by RedHawk

[shura]

I really don't care about the glanders storyline, but also wanted to note that the reason they all survived exposure was that they all had been vaccinated in advance of coming into contact with the vial, in the first episode.  So, I don't know what William was adding, but supposedly, they had some kind of inoculation in advance.

 

They were vaccinated against meningitis because Gabriel thought that was what William was going to bring. It wouldn't help with glanders, I don't think.

 

Excellent point about how Martha's admission of a secret affair should raise major red flags within the FBI. I wonder if she tells Philip about what she told Ader... I mean, Agent Aderholt. If she does, she is dead, isn't she?

 

I am not sure I can accept Oleg's becoming a double agent as a result of Nina's death if that's where the show is going. It just sounds too petulant to me. Oleg knew, must have known, that she had very little chance of getting out of there alive. He should have expected it. It shouldn't be something that would make him betray his country. 

[suomi]

Reading that Q & A, led me to read about the book that reveal that method of execution, which led me to read about the guy the book was written about which took me to wikipedia.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Vetrov

 

I'm putting it here because the timeline jives with RIGHT now on the show, with this KGB guy giving away all of the technology information to the west, and makes me think about two things.  One, the guy the Russian's captured, and Nina dreamed of rescuing, and Two, spies were being really burned by this guy, but mostly in his own department.  Still, leaky leaky about exposing people.  I wonder if more than just the execution style will tie into the show?

 

Sergei's Farewell book is available via Kindle for $1.99 (448 pages). I bought it a couple minutes ago and I'm about to dig in.

[RedHawk]

I think the fact that they were all inoculated  prior to exposure, and that Elizabeth had a bad reaction to the antibiotic, is a good explanation for why she and Gabriel got sick but didn't die, and why Philip and William didn't get sick. Good enough for me, at least. They were not specifically inoculated against Glanders, because there probably is no inoculation, yet they were given an inoculation against a very similar virus, in the hope that it might help save their lives. The inoculation combined with William's treatments saved Gabriel. 

 

There's also the theory that the virus just was not as virulent as the manufacturers and/or William thought. Either way, I'm ok with moving forward and enjoying the drama that we got from Elizabeth believing she was going to die.

Edited April 7, 2016 by RedHawk

[ChromaKelly]

Well, the Nina storyline is over. Now I feel kind of bad for complaining about it.

 

[SunnyBeBe]

I agree RedHawk.  Good point about Martha's phone message to Philip being one that was actually designed to warn the powers that be of her dinner plans.  She knew that both sides might get it.  At this point though, the FBI is not monitoring her calls, according to what we the viewers are seeing, (if they were, they would know about her secret) but, the Russians should be. Do you recall when something happened once in an emergency and Elizabeth had to call or show up due to Philip being unavailable?  Hadn't Martha been leaving messages then?

 

I saw that Stan took something from Martha's drawer, but couldn't make out what?  When will she miss them?  Did Philip's colleagues show up after Martha left her apt and clean it up and/or plant things they wanted Stan to find.  If the Russians got the voice message from Martha, they had to be wary of this dinner meeting.  OH, did Martha's date know that Stan planned to break in?  And wouldn't Martha have already been well versed in emergency plans if certain things happen at work, so that she would have known exactly what to do in such a situation?

 

I'm just trying to figure out how how Stan lets go of pursuing Martha and her married lover. The married lover must be tracked down, right?  Learning it's Philip is just TOO coincidental.  I mean really.  In past seasons, were there ever any socials that would have brought Philip and Martha together?  Wasn't there some party where Stan invited Philip?  Was Martha there?  

 

The writing of Nina sending that letter to her friend's son just as she was on good terms was contrived and made no sense to me.  NOW, we see it was just a vehicle to get her the death sentence.  I wasn't amused.

 

I am also not amused with Elizabeth deciding that Pastor Tim should not be killed.  Is this really for Paige's best interest?  I doubt it. She has convinced herself that Paige being upset with her parents is the most important thing in their lives.  She lets Paige play her like a fiddle.  Her failure to realistically access the danger to ALL involved, including Paige, is glaring, IMO.  I do not believe The Center will go along.  And if the writers are allowed to finagle  Pastor Tim and Alice into trustworthy cohorts.........Please.   lol

 

Still, I just LOVE this show.

Edited April 7, 2016 by SunnyBeBe

[RedHawk]

I agree RedHawk.  Good point about Martha's phone message to Philip being one that was actually designed to warn the powers that be of her dinner plans.  She knew that both sides might get it.  At this point though, the FBI is not monitoring her calls, according to what we the viewers are seeing, (if they were, they would not about her secret) but, the Russians should be. Do you recall when something happened once in an emergency and Elizabeth had to call or show up due to Philip being unavailable?  Hadn't Martha been leaving messages then?

 

I saw that Stan took something from Martha's drawer, but couldn't make out what?  When will she miss them?  Did Philip's colleagues show up after Martha left her apt and clean it up and/or plant things they wanted Stan to find.  If the Russians got the voice message from Martha, they had to be wary of this dinner meeting.  OH, did Martha's date know that Stan planned to break in?  And wouldn't Martha have already been well versed in emergency plans if certain things happen at work, so that she would have known exactly what to do in such a situation?

 

I'm just trying to figure out how how Stan lets go of pursuing Martha and her married lover. The married lover must be tracked down, right?  Learning it's Philip is just TOO coincidental.  I mean really.  In past seasons, were there ever any socials that would have brought Philip and Martha together?  Wasn't there some party where Stan invited Philip?  Was Martha there?  

 

...

Still, I just LOVE this show.

I think Martha is aware or at least started hoping that Clark's "answering machine" or her phone is listened to by others on "his" side. After leaving so many messages she may have been hoping they would send someone, anyone to her aid. I think she also began to fear it has been bugged by "her" side, but we know it hasn't been -- yet.

You may be thinking about Stan picking up Martha's gun. He put it back, I'm pretty sure. He wanted it to appear as if nothing was out of place in the least so as not to tip her off. Definitely he was aware Aderholt was taking her out to dinner. I loved that when they had the discussion at the mail robot it seemed like Aderholt was willing to take her out to dinner but not work with Stan on spying on her, but then it turned out that he was making a more elaborate surveillance and questioning plan with Stan. 

 

Good question about that FBI party in Season 1. Was it at Stan's house, so he invited his good neighbor pal Philip? I think Stan's previous partner (Chris Amador) was there, the man Philip later killed. I don't think Martha was there, but there was the suspense that she might be. It seemed more like a guy's thing, like a football party, if memory serves. But please, someone who remembers it better, remind us of the details.

Edited April 7, 2016 by RedHawk

[sistermagpie]

RIP Nina. That idyllic dream was a dead giveaway, just like with Harrow on Boardwalk Empire. I would be surprised if Oleg finds out about Nina and his father's handiwork to keep him in Russia.

 

 

I would think it would send him back since his father couldn't save her. That was the deal.

 

What was that strange look William had while Elizabeth hugged Phillip?

 

 

Longing? Wondering what it would be like to have someone to care about him that way?

 

I'm hoping this means we don't lose Oleg, no need to keep that promise to dad now.  I wonder if he will just defect?

 

 

That would be a big slap in the face to his family and his brother. Not to mention he seems to be loyal to the USSR so far. Stan didn't turn on the US when they didn't extract Nina.

 

I have a very hard time believing the KGB is going to put up with them making their own decision about this.  What possible value does some rinky dink pastor and his blabbermouth wife have to the KGB?

 

 

But to be fair, they're also right that killing him is a risk too. Paige would quite possibly tell again if they did it. If they're trying to work him, it makes sense the Centre would at least let them try. As crazy as it seems, the Centre does seem to consider Paige important and they always take dumb risks when they get greedy.

 

I can't believe that's an oversight in a series with such great, tight writing. Has Martha moved the picture to "Clark's" apartment? Or is its absence a sign of something else? I'm starting to wonder if Martha is indeed smarter than I've given her credit for.

 

 

Philip moved it to Clark's place. I suspect he'll be tossing it next week.

 

But I'm wondering, does Oleg know about Phillip and Elizabeth? Obviously, if he does, they can't make him a double agent. But gee, it would add a whole new dimension to the story. Dang, I just can't remember if he knows. Someone enlighten me.

 

 

Nope. He wanted to be read in on the Illegals program but Arkady specifically kept him away from them. Thank goodness. Arkady is the man.

 

I'm just trying to figure out how how Stan lets go of pursuing Martha and her married lover. The married lover must be tracked down, right?

 

 

I assume so, of course. Aderholdt was keeping her busy so Stan could check her apartment. Now it looks like Aderholdt will have important info for Stan and Stan will go after this guy. Probably he'll get a description from him from the neighbors.

 

There was a lot in this of people vs. ideals in terms of loyalty--a major theme in the show, of course. Oleg wanted to save Nina for personal reasons, he wanted his father to save her for him. His father wanted him to come home. Elizabeth decided being personally loyal to Paige was important. Philip wanted a normal life but *with* Elizabeth. Henry was annoyed at being shoved aside for work. Paige was worried for her parents' safety and felt guilty. Even Gabriel was questioning a life of not being able to trust anyone. 

[benteen]

Oleg's father looks like Putin.

[gwhh]

Oleg father is the minister of railroad.  That may not sound like a big deal to us.  But back in Soviet times and even today in Russia.  That one of the most important position inside the government back then and even today.  Because of the lack of roads in that nation. 

 

I knew Nina was going to get killed as she walked down the hall.  From reading cold war history.  The KGB walked you down a hall like they are letting you go and than a guy shots you in the head with no warning.  Almost like a mafia hit!  They guy saying you were going to die.  I never read about that happening.  I think that was added for dramatic affect on TV! 

 

In real life.  If you were a traitor to Soviet Union and in the KGB or GRU.  Your death sentence around this time and going back at least 20 years.  Was to be feed feet first in a LIVE furnace as your co-workers watch you die! 

 

How Stan EVERY gotten a search warrant for a case in the history of working for the FBI? 

[Trillian]

 

Good question about that FBI party in Season 1. Was it at Stan's house, so he invited his good neighbor pal Philip? I think Stan's previous partner (Chris Amador) was there, the man Philip later killed. I don't think Martha was there, but there was the suspense that she might be. It seemed more like a guy's thing, like a football party, if memory serves. But please, someone who remembers it better, remind us of the details.

IIRC, it was a family party - Elizabeth and the kids and some unidentified others were there too.  As was appropriate for the time, the guys gathered together, the women watched the children, and secretaries were apparently not invited.

[attica]

I have to quibble with Nina's execution, in that the Sovs I know would have shot her in such a way that cleanup would have been easier. We don't want to get blood and brains on the apparatchik's desk, after all!

 

No one makes better vomiting sounds than John Hamm.

 

I counter this assertion with Colbert and Carell.

 

Didn't we see Martha's copy of the KS before? Didn't she once show Clark a picture and say 'how about this?' My memory is hazy, mostly because I chased the Martha/Clark sexytime scenes with lots of brain bleach and scotch.

[jjj]

Didn't we see Martha's copy of the KS before? Didn't she once show Clark a picture and say 'how about this?' My memory is hazy, mostly because I chased the Martha/Clark sexytime scenes with lots of brain bleach and scotch.

Indeed, we have seen it in print and in action -- even the intro/previously for this episode showed them doing one of the positions with "Clark" comically keeping an eye on the page to make sure they were doing it "right".  I wondered why they included that in "previously"! 

[RedHawk]

IIRC, it was a family party - Elizabeth and the kids and some unidentified others were there too.  As was appropriate for the time, the guys gathered together, the women watched the children, and secretaries were apparently not invited.

 

 

Or perhaps Martha made an excuse not to attend because she didn't want to run into Amador outside of work, since there was tension between them?

 

I am re-watching and yes, Dylan Baker is just amazing as William. His sarcastic cynicism is hilarious as well as very telling about his character. ("If we believed in God I'd tell you to pray.")

 

If you look in the Big Red Book of Soviet Spies, 1983 edition, on top of William's photo the KGB has stamped "BURNED OUT". 

[SunnyBeBe]

I think I'm confused about William.  Who he is really?  And who does the US believe him to be?  Why is being watched by the FBI?

[Anela]

I heard that there was a shocking ending, so I was saying, "oh, no" as Nina woke up from that dream, and was then walked down to that room. I wasn't expecting her to just be shot in the back of the head. :/ What bothered me even more, was that guy, just walking over to his desk, and checking his watch, not at all bothered that a woman was just shot. I know she was a criminal, but... so cold. 

 

I liked Elizabeth bowling, and joking with Paige. I was nice seeing them all get along, and happy for a little while. I missed what others have commented on: Elizabeth telling Philip to take the kids, and be Americans. 

[RedHawk]

I think I'm confused about William.  Who he is really?  And who does the US believe him to be?  Why is being watched by the FBI?

That last one is an especially good question that I've never thought through before. If he's an Illegal,  trained and sent over like P&E, then if the FBI is aware of him why haven't they figured out by now he is an Illegal? Hmmm... From everything we've been told, it seems he was Soviet-born and trained by the KGB, has been in the U.S. even longer than they've been, and had partner (we assume a wife) who didn't work out, so he's been working on his own for years. 

[sistermagpie]

I think I'm confused about William.  Who he is really?  And who does the US believe him to be?  Why is being watched by the FBI?

 

 

He's an Illegal like Elizabeth and Philip. The US thinks he's an American scientist. He was being watched because he works on something with security clearance and the FBI does periodic watches on all the scientists.

 

I missed what others have commented on: Elizabeth telling Philip to take the kids, and be Americans.

 

 

It took me a second to work out exactly what she meant, because she was basically saying: kill Pastor Tim, blame it on me, screw the Centre's plans for Second Generation and never tell Henry. Otherwise keep doing what you're doing. 

 

I gotta say, as much as I love Martha I would be relieved by Philip not having to be married to her anymore if only so he can hang out at home like he wants. It's ironic that he's the one who wants to enjoy ordinary life but he's gotten himself the much more brutal schedule where he's the one out of the house more often.

Edited April 7, 2016 by sistermagpie

[Chaos Theory]

Martha is the awesomist awesome who ever did awesome. Stan sucks. That lie she told Adderhold was actually kinda clever. It may in the long run cause some problems but without Philip/Clarke's help it was a very clever lie.

Be Cool Paige. Be Cool. For someone who hates to lie she is actually pretty good at it. It must be in the blood.

I was one of the people who actually did enjoy the Nina story but did think something drastic needed to be done. The Soviets did execute alot of "traitors" in those days and that was pretty much how they did it. I thought it was fitting end. Plus it added a bit of danger to the show. Shit just got real people.

Edited April 7, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV Post on the episode!

 

The Americans Puts A Quartet Under Quarantine
The Illegals deal with the after-effects of possible Glanders exposure. Across town, Paige tries not to lose her mind with terror and guilt.

[tennisgurl]

The biggest shock, to me, after Nina's death, was Elizabeth and Paige making jokes about Elizabeth being taught to bowl by the KGB. While doing an accent. Like, wow. Elizabeth has been actually making jokes this season, its weird! And her and Paige making jokes about that whole "deep cover soviet spy" thing I guess this is the new normal in the Jennings family. 

[sistermagpie]

One other little moment I loved was when they were stuck at Gabriel's Philip was, as usual, reading a book. I just loved that little detail.

 

Oh and also when Gabriel brings up "fear" back in the USSR Elizabeth of course jumps to fear of the enemy--WWII and Gabriel is talking about fear of the actual Soviets, the Purge. Of course Elizabeth would jump to the more patriotic idea.

Edited April 7, 2016 by sistermagpie

[Dev F]

I assume so, of course. Aderholdt was keeping her busy so Stan could check her apartment. Now it looks like Aderholdt will have important info for Stan and Stan will go after this guy. Probably he'll get a description from him from the neighbors. 

 

I wonder if the Jenningses have an asset they could call on to play the part of Martha's lover in Philip's place. The only strong possibility I can think of is Charles Duluth, but he offers both a high upside and a high downside. On the one hand, he's a prominent American with a long history of anti-Communist activity, so the revelation that Martha was fooling around with him might help allay suspicion that it was anything but an illicit affair. On the other hand, if the FBI remains suspicious of Martha's loyalties, there's a chance they'd bring one of Philip's most highly placed sources down with her.

[Dowel Jones]

With all the twists this show has taken, I wouldn't be surprised to hear the Pastor Tim and Alice suffer a completely unrelated car accident (not engineered by the KGB), and Philip and Elizabeth have to scramble to explain that to Paige.

 

Okay, I get Martha's pre-dinner fear and frustrations, but, damn, I HATE long telephone messages.  And then it's on to the most. awkward. dinner. conversation. ever.

Glad she pulled that one out.

 

Floved Stan's facial expression upon finding Martha's kama sugar.
Eta: Damn auto correct! Kama Sutra

 

Pretty much the same thing, just more calories.

 

I wonder if Keri Russell came into the shoot with morning sickness.

Director:  "Great, we can use that.  Let's get set up right now."

Keri:  "Asshole."

[SunnyBeBe]

Excellent idea Dev F.   I hadn't considered that the Russians could bring in an actual married man that could play Martha's lover, to satisfy Stan and the office.  But, they would still make her break it off or terminate her, right?  Man, that would be very risky and difficult to pull off, but hey.  They've fallen for worse stories before.  

 

Do you think that Martha is becoming more adept at working in the FBI office or less?  Does she really want to continue or would she rather be caught, go to prison or be killed by the Russians. 

 

I think that if Martha had tried harder, she might have just said she was having trouble sleeping, but that a nice long walk, often at night, helped settle her down. (Note the sleeping pills in her drawer.) That explains why she's out late.  lol  I know, but hey...it is possible and not a reason to terminate her.  

 

My aunt worked in the FBI office (Washing, DC)  in the 1960's.  She felt uneasy about it and left.  She's never shared the details, but it sure has me wondering now.  She's still living. I'll have to pick her brain at our next visit.   

Edited April 7, 2016 by SunnyBeBe

[shura]

But, they would still make her break it off or terminate her, right?

 

They probably would, wouldn't they? I doubt she can continue on if she just fills out a form and discloses the identity of her secret lover so the FBI could run a background check on him. He'd still be a liability that a foreign agent might exploit to get to Martha.

 

Maybe you are right, maybe Martha is looking for a way out, not through being caught but rather through getting herself fired. Maybe she believes that Clark does love her and will stay with her and protect her even when she can't do all these illegal things she probably wants to stop doing.

[Darren]

So... in light of recent conversations on this forum about Philip's underlying motivations, he made it pretty clear last night. He said, he'd choose to be "normal" - if the choice were his. Sure sounds like a man who no longer believes enough in the revolution to commit his life to it. His love for Elizabeth is largely all that's keeping him engaged. But as I've said before, that's kind of problematic - from a character point of view, because it's hard to see Elizabeth loving him if he's no longer a revolutionary at heart. Hmmm... Not sure about the character development here.

[sistermagpie]

So... in light of recent conversations on this forum about Philip's underlying motivations, he made it pretty clear last night. He said, he'd choose to be "normal" - if the choice were his. Sure sounds like a man who no longer believes enough in the revolution to commit his life to it. His love for Elizabeth is largely all that's keeping him engaged. But as I've said before, that's kind of problematic - from a character point of view, because it's hard to see Elizabeth loving him if he's no longer a revolutionary at heart. Hmmm... Not sure about the character development here.

 

 

I think that's been clear since the pilot, though. He thinks the life is terrible and harmful for their family. He wants to retire. He doesn't think it's sustainable. He thinks every second they continue they're going to get caught and lose their kids and each other and wants to avoid that. The alarm says run run run.

 

I think it's more like if he was an activist who in his youth was constantly protesting, getting arrested etc. Now he's married with a family. He still has the same politics, but he's not getting arrested or living in trees. He's tired, he thinks he owes it to his kids to give them more stability etc. He's not saying all his old beliefs were wrong, he's saying he can't live this life for it anymore for it. If the two of them were working at the Rezidentura, for instance, he might be totally happy.

 

Elizabeth is actually moving more in that direction too, imo. I think she appreciates that Philip is there to be the one to fight for the family and other values because underneath Elizabeth really doesn't want to be her mother sacrificing her kids without blinking. She gives her blessing to Paige and Henry being ordinary Americans who aren't working for the Cause. 

 

Elizabeth took a step in Philip's direction by agreeing with him on Pastor Tim--one could actually look at her refusal to run as either commitment to the cause (she wants to keep doing their work) or as a way of holding onto her American life (she's protecting the kids' comfortable lives rather than subjecting them to Russia). Philip has also reaffirmed his commitment in the other direction by being horrified at Elizabeth's scenario of living in the US without her. He chose her, just like he did in the pilot.

[Umbelina]

I noticed a lot of questions that have already been answered just a few posts above or on the previous page, just sayin'.

 

I'm thinking Nina's story more this morning.  I also felt that it was a waste of time occasionally, having her so far from the main action.  However, in thinking about it I'm realizing that it has set quite a bit up, and also given us another view of the the USSR, which is valuable.  You didn't really have to be a traitor to end up as Nina did, just look at that poor Anton, kidnapped, taken back, forced to work on something they want, and pretty much has done all he can for them.  Will they let him live?  Doubtful.  That's the country Elizabeth is so passionate about.  It also moved the relationship between Oleg and Stan to a somewhat deeper place.   I think it was good to show all of that.

 

My biggest problem with the story was any kind of idea she would be anything but dead soon.  The pie in the sky rescue stuff annoyed me because I thought it would be so completely ridiculous.  As it is though, because of the perfect way they ended it (and yes, that was the method, exactly) her story ended up being pretty wonderful to me.  It was also nice that they gave her a bit of soul redemption before that, she didn't think of herself, she thought of Anton and his son.  They would have killed her anyway, but at least she died having done something kind and selfless.

[Helena Dax]

Wow, poor Nina. I agree that there wasn't any other realistic ending for her, but that was cold. And I think it was necessary to show that side of the USSR. At the Rezidentura, we see the privileged ones. Philip and Elizabeth are idealists. But we can't forget the USSR had a very ugly face too. Anton and Nina served that purpose.

 

Loved the rest of the episode. For a moment, I thought Stan was going to see the wedding picture, but I guess there's nothing Philip-related in that house anymore. However, he's getting closer. That line that Henry said about how his parents weren't usually around or something like that... You could sense that some part of Stan's brain had filed that information. He already knows there are two spies working together, a man and a woman. He knows how they look, generally speaking. It's a question of time.

 

Everything about the quarantine was perfect. I'm not sure they'll be able to keep Pastor Tim and his wife's mouths closed, but Philip and Elizabeth are nothing but resourceful. I loved all their moments together. And she keeps changing, very, very slowly. I used to believe that the perestroika would destroy Elizabeth, but now I think that if she's still alive by then, she'll be jumping with joy at the chance of stop spying. 

[Darren]

I think that's been clear since the pilot, though. He thinks the life is terrible and harmful for their family. He wants to retire. He doesn't think it's sustainable. He thinks every second they continue they're going to get caught and lose their kids and each other and wants to avoid that. The alarm says run run run.

 

I think it's more like if he was an activist who in his youth was constantly protesting, getting arrested etc. Now he's married with a family. He still has the same politics, but he's not getting arrested or living in trees. He's tired, he thinks he owes it to his kids to give them more stability etc. He's not saying all his old beliefs were wrong, he's saying he can't live this life for it anymore for it. If the two of them were working at the Rezidentura, for instance, he might be totally happy.

 

Elizabeth is actually moving more in that direction too, imo. I think she appreciates that Philip is there to be the one to fight for the family and other values because underneath Elizabeth really doesn't want to be her mother sacrificing her kids without blinking. She gives her blessing to Paige and Henry being ordinary Americans who aren't working for the Cause. 

 

Elizabeth took a step in Philip's direction by agreeing with him on Pastor Tim--one could actually look at her refusal to run as either commitment to the cause (she wants to keep doing their work) or as a way of holding onto her American life (she's protecting the kids' comfortable lives rather than subjecting them to Russia). Philip has also reaffirmed his commitment in the other direction by being horrified at Elizabeth's scenario of living in the US without her. He chose her, just like he did in the pilot.

Right. But it's one thing to feel conflicted over fighting for a cause you believe in and in doing what's best for your family. It's another thing entirely to not really even believe in the cause at all. I feel like it's leaning so far towards the latter that it makes his character less compelling, as well as their relationship that much less believable. I mean, he's murdering people on a fairly regular basis. All for a cause he doesn't even really feel is just? What about what's best for those innocent victims and their families? That begins to sound so disassociated as to be psychopathic. And again, as I've said before, would Elizabeth even be in love with someone who doesn't really even believe in the cause? I don't think so. She is far too zealous for that. She loved Gregory because, among other things, he was a zealot like her.

 

Again, I love this show to death. But this is a character oversight issue that's been a thorn in my side since the beginning. 

Edited April 7, 2016 by Darren

[maczero]

I hate seeing people throw up on TV without warning but otherwise it was a great episode...again. 

I'm right there with you.  Only thing more disgusting is watching someone take a shit.  Still can't get over that scene where Philip had to wipe that guy's ass for him after he took a dump.

 

I was only surprised that they didn't make her suffer after the verdict and that they got blood on their floor.  I didn't think they would shoot her in that hallway, but in a way, it was as merciful as it could get.

I'll say one thing about Soviet justice.  It's damn quick.  I thought "shortly" meant a few days.  Lol!

 

The other "gasp worthy" moment I this ep, for me, was Elizabeth acknowledging to Philip that he -- Philip -- really just wants to be an American and let the kids be fully American. 

This is why I consider Philip worse than Elizabeth.  At least she's doing horrible things for a cause she believes in.  Philip lost faith in the cause a long time ago.  He's just doing this for Elizabeth at this point.

Floved Stan's facial expression upon finding Martha's kama sugar.

Eta: Damn auto correct! Kama Sutra

Stan was probably thinking it's always the quiet ones.

 

One thing jumped out at me as maybe being significant. 

 

Martha's excuse.  She's seeing a married man.  Now, to her, that seems reasonable and smart, because she has no idea that Clark/Philip IS married. 

 

He is though, and Stan knows him.  If Stan should somehow get another glimpse, given that he's already got Philip on his mind as a cheater with his ex wife, could that trigger something in Stan somehow?

For some reason, I think Stan wouldn't even consider Philip is an illegal even if he learns that Philip's the married man that Martha's been seeing.    

 

The (cute) bowling scene reminded me of a quibble I've had about the Jennings kids -- given that their parents are strong and smart enough to evade danger for decades, shouldn't their kids be super-genius athletic freaks? Shouldn't Paige be taking college math classes if her father can calculate the angle of communications satellites in the field? Shouldn't Henry's ice hockey skills be drawing the attention of NHL scouts if his mother has the coordination and grit to beat two grown men into submission? Besides their legit American-ness, I imagine the Centre knows they might have inherited the best of their parents, which would make them outstanding spies.

 

I chalk P's & E's abilities up to training.  I'm sure the two have natural gifts that make them good at what they do and maybe they passed them onto their kids but those gifts don't mean squat unless they're nurtured.  For instance, a lot of smart kids don't often take advance courses unless they have an inherent interest in the subject or they're being pushed by their parents.  And for athleticism, well Henry's part of the first generation that began staying indoors playing video games rather than sports so I'm guessing the only physical talent he's developing is hand/eye coordination.

[Umbelina]

I'm trying to think of a time Philip went out to deliberately murder someone, act a "hit man" roll.  Has it ever happened? 

 

The murders I remember are all based on keeping their cover, getting home to the wife and kids.  For example, he had no option on that bus.  The pilot was ready to cave, the security guard could have not only got the vial, but also arrested the pilot, who would have crumbled and given away everything during even the mildest interrogation, and who knew what else this courier knew?  Other drops, other spies to give up?  Not to mention Philip would blow both his and Elizabeth sky high and his kids would end up in foster care at best.  He would lose everything.

 

So, not that it makes them OK (or that embedded spies would in reality ever do these kinds of routine things, Arkady's group would) but the murders that have happened all seem to be mostly because things go wrong in their plans.  Elizabeth had to murder that woman who "wasn't supposed to be there" during the mail robot bugging (another thing that Arkady's group would have handled.) but she regretted it, and it certainly wasn't planned.

 

A true to life show about embedded spies would be boring as hell, so I love that they have the Jennings do all this other stuff, for the show, for entertainment.  I'm not looking for reality here, but I do love the moments of completely read the writers give us.  Nina's execution was one of those.