TWD Season 7 Anticipation - Evil Cliffhanger from Hell

[HalcyonDays]

Everyone,

 

Since we left season 6 with a major cliffhanger no thanks to Negan, Lucille and Gimple/Kirkman, Carol all shot up and some shady looking people clad in hockey(?) pads confronting Morgan and Carol, there is a lot of discuss and about seven months of time to discuss it. So instead of filling up the episode thread, THIS thread will be dedicated to discussing the end of season 6, what you think will happen, and all of the grumbling anticipation you all have for October.

 

Yes, we have the Watch Duty thread, but it'll be a long time before we get anything that resembles a spoiler to discuss and I except a fair amount of season 7 specific discussion.

 

Note the spoiler tag. Spoilers be here. All Spoilers. If people want a thread to discuss season 7 without spoilers I can do that (just want to see if there is a need). Anticipate Away!!

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Love the title of the Thread.

LOL!

[AnnaMayWong]

Will THE WALKING DEAD (tv) World award horrific megalomania and cruelty with ongoing power ❓      ... Or, will the RICKers prevail ...❓

[Nutjob]

I love this thread title!

 

So, here's my issue with going back to the Lucille moment--does it then become gratuitous? I mean, I know we see a lot of violence on this show that could be called gratuitous, but in this case we're talking about watching one human bash another human's skull in after the emotion of the moment has already passed. Does it make sense at all to go back to it, as Gimple suggested in his media call? Personally, I think the moment's gone and they screwed it up altogether.

[Sighed I]

Kudos to whomever titled this thread. Brilliant. LOL

[HalcyonDays]

Kudos to whomever titled this thread. Brilliant. LOL

 

Really? Hee. I just tried to think of something quick figuring you guys would come up with something better. Glad you like it!! Guess it stays, cause it really WAS an Evil Cliffhanger from Hell!!

[Sighed I]

Really? Hee. I just tried to think of something quick figuring you guys would come up with something better. Glad you like it!! Guess it stays, cause it really WAS an Evil Cliffhanger from Hell!!

Yes, really! I seriously chuckled when I read it and got a side-eye from my coworker and every-thang.

[jsbt]

I think Lucille is gratuitous no matter what. A baseball bat wrapped in barb wire that is used to destroy another human being - I mean, I'd have come up with that when I was 14 but that's about it. It's just so ludicrous and not in a fun way. In the comic it's one of the most repulsive things I've ever seen and I can take a lot. I am glad they took out the deeply stupid comic line about Lucille being 'a vampire bat,' which is up there with some of Kirkman's worst howlers.

 

I think they will show some of it - somehow, since they push the gore limit regularly - because if they didn't there'd likely be another rash of outraged thinkpieces about how TWD must be cancelled due to a deep betrayal of its audience because we did not see someone's body obliterated on camera with a Louisville Slugger in glorious Technicolor. I don't know if I'll be able to look directly at it. Blunt force trauma is a big yikes for me.

 

I would largely keep the camera off the actual event and done in quick cuts or at least tasteful lighting - I think that's the only thing that would keep it from being snuff. Either way someone will call it dishonest and a failure of creative integrity. Again, I can enjoy a lot of gore but gore for gore's sake has an upper limit. This sequence is that for me.

Edited April 5, 2016 by jsbt

[eejm]

I think I'm one of the few viewers who was OK with the cliffhanger.  I mean sure, I want to know who died.  I agree that it made Glenn's fake death earlier in the season seem sort of cheap.  And I pity the cast and crew who has to try and keep that quiet until October.  But I kind of expected it and felt it was sort of a natural way to end the season.  (Yeah, I'm a weirdo.  You can say it.)

 

I kind of like the idea of seeing the crew - Rick in particular - being cowed and subservient next season.  Not because I don't like Rick, but because he and CDB really haven't been in this position before.  Sure, they've faced some very, very tough times, but they haven't really answered to anyone yet, much less for an extended amount of time.  I also like the idea of exploring Rick's overconfidence and downfall playing into Negan's hands, as well as Rick's journey in regaining faith in the group and himself.  This will also allow for the story of eventually overcoming Negan or at least getting out of his grip over the next season or two.  I think this presents a lot of great possibilities in terms of character and storyline development.

Edited April 6, 2016 by eejm

[Hava]

I really don't believe the writers of this show have the guts to kill a major character like Glenn. I was reading a New York Times article, and the author had a theory that Glenn's almost-death in earlier the season was a trial balloon to test how people would react to a Glenn death. And lots of people (not me) were angry about the prospect.

[HalcyonDays]

Abraham.

 

I think it's Abraham. He had that sweet and emotional goodbye scene with Eugene - who hugged him.

He was all mellow and actually said to Sasha he wanted to start a family.

Abraham's story has come full circle. He lost his family, lost his mind, made getting Eugene to Washington his priority, lost that mission, lost his mind again, found it, and finally made peace with truly wanting a life with Sasha and not Rosita, and made peace with ASZ and the realities in the zombie apocalypse.

 

Also, he's the biggest of the bunch. Negan needs to keep the others in line to basically serve him. Kill off the potentially threatening "muscle", and leave what he perceives are the smaller, "weaker" members of the gang to do his bidding.

[Milks26]

I would've loved to see who got killed but the cliffhanger wasn't evil but its what usually happens on tv.

 

At least S7 is supposed to pick up at that exact moment.

 

I think Abraham will be the victim.

 

But, after watching the scene a few times Maggie, Glenn or Michonne are also possibles.

 

If they kill Michonne....I'm done. I turned my back once on this show at the end of S3 with Andrea's death...so it will be even easier to do it now.

[RedheadZombie]

I love this thread title!

 

So, here's my issue with going back to the Lucille moment--does it then become gratuitous? I mean, I know we see a lot of violence on this show that could be called gratuitous, but in this case we're talking about watching one human bash another human's skull in after the emotion of the moment has already passed. Does it make sense at all to go back to it, as Gimple suggested in his media call? Personally, I think the moment's gone and they screwed it up altogether.

Not much could be worse than watching Noah's facing getting chewed off, so I don't think they are above showing the horror. But I really think when we see the ending scene again, the focus will be on the loved one. Maggie if it's Glenn, Rick if it's Michonne, etc. The only character without a strong connection to one person is Aaron, but in that case I think we would get reactions to all of CDB. The sounds of the thuds from the baseball bat will be horrific, but I'm guessing we may get a scene where the music is the only sound, or like it was this time with a fade out.

I would really be surprised if Glenn is the victim. The fans rebelled so strongly last time that they made the unusual decision to have SY make that little clip for the fans. It makes no sense to me that they would want to go there again. I always knew I loved Glenn, but I didn't realize how much until he "died". I feel like the season one peeps are almost sacred. But one thing I feel strongly about - they will not kill Maggie's baby if Glenn dies. No way do they want to miss out on the sentiment of a little Beth or Hershel. Yes it would be difficult to add another baby to the mix, but this last mess happened safely away from Judith. Judith's caretaker can also watch baby Green (Warrior Priest FPP?), and the violence can continue to stay away from the babies.

As to who dies - Aaron was a strange choice to have on the RV trip. He did have the moment with Maggie when she was going to go off on her own to search for Glenn, so I think he felt closer to her because of that. Also, they always humanize a character right before they kill them - Shane couldn't kill Rick, T-Dog giving his humanity speech, Hershel talking about finding out what's worth dying for, Merle released Michonne and died trying to save Daryl, prison dude sharing a sweet story with Carol, etc. When that man was hanged, Aaron, in particularly, seemed very tormented by the image. The writers also seem to have run out of things to do with him. He's my favorite Alexandrian, but I'm least attached to him and Rosita, when compared to the rest in danger.

I think Rick/Michonne and Abraham/Sasha are safe because they so obviously foreshadowed with all the lovey-dovey stuff. It seems to cliche even for TWD. When Abe dumped Rosita the way he did, my immediate thought was she was going to die, and he would be so guilty for treating her so cruelly. And unlike the poster in the episode thread who thought only a man could take a beating well (as complimented by Negan), Rosita is a soldier. And while I'm on that topic, Maggie, Sasha, and Michonne are every bit as tough as the men, too. If anyone is going to blubber and wet his pants, it's a man - Eugene.

[Nashville]

Not taking anything from any of the other characters - but in my own personal opinion, there is only one character who could take a woodcutter chop to the head from A LOUISVILLE SLUGGER WRAPPED IN FRIKKIN' BARBED WIRE FOR CRYIN' OUT LOUD, and still have enough chutzpah, enough attitude, and dammit big enough brass balls to raise their head and give Negan a look straight in the eye as if to say, "You may have killed me - but you sure as fuck didn't BEAT me, baseball bitch."

 

And that is Abraham, all the way.

[LeeMoon]

I'm not looking forward to the gore. If they had showed it in the finale they could have gotten away with not actually showing the beating, which I would have preferred. Now they will feel like they have to go overboard with the violence.

 

The best theory I heard is that it is Daryl that is killed, and they were afraid people wouldn't tune in to watch the new season if they did that. So in order to force people to give season 7 a chance, they decided to postponed the reveal to sometime next season. I guess this could apply to Glenn as well.

 

Abraham or Eugenie is going to be anticlimactic. But in that case, the focus of the finale would have gone back to Rick and how is he going to handle things, while having their death happen in season 7 is just going to be eh, whatever.

 

The more I think about this without the suspense and hype we had for the finale, the more I look forward less and less to season 7. Negan was supposed to be the big bad, but apparently the real torture is going to be having to listen to his speeches again and again as we follow a carrot in the woods in the hopes for something to happen. That's not really exciting.

[lulee]

Yes, we have the Watch Duty thread, but it'll be a long time before we get anything that resembles a spoiler to discuss and I except a fair amount of season 7 specific discussion.

 

Note the spoiler tag. Spoilers be here. If people want a thread to discuss season 7 without spoilers I can do that (just want to see if there is a need). Anticipate Away!!

Checking out this thread while there's still little chance of a serious spoiler ... Halcyon Days, I think those of us who prefer to stay spoiler free can just keep to the Speculation without Spoilers thread. Traffic there is usually pretty light. So I think it can absorb any spoiler-free Season 7 spec.

 

As for speculation, I've seen a few comments that suspect Aaron because - for example, why else would he have been along, but I think he seemed plausible to be along if they expected any difficulty getting to the Hilltop (which they should have given recent confrontations) because he would have known the area best. Plus his friendship with Maggie. Abraham, Sasha, Eugene, and Carl were apparently the "muscle" or "guns" for the expedition, but the same question could be asked about why some of them would be along - one-eyed Carl, new-to-the-fight Eugene, etc.

[FilmPimp]

My money's on it being Glenn despite the hard left turn Gimple promised. The reason being Glenn is indirectly/directly responsible for bringing each CDB member into the fold.

Glenn already knew Carl, Carol, and Daryl.

Glenn introduced Rick to the group in Atlanta.

Glenn dropped the baby formula that Michonne later brought to the prison.

Glenn got Eugene, Abe, and Rosita to accompany him on the Maggie search.

It was Glenn's "We can only make it together" line that convinced Aaron to bring CDB to Alexandria.

His death would affect each member in a way that someone else's wouldn't. So there's my two cents.

Edited April 8, 2016 by FilmPimp

[EllenC]

My money's on it being Glenn despite the hard left turn Gimple promised. The reason being Glenn is indirectly/directly responsible for bringing each CDB member into the fold.

Glenn already knew Carl, Carol, and Darryl.

Glenn introduced Rick to the group in Atlanta.

Glenn dropped the baby formula that Michonne later brought to the prison.

Glenn got Eugene, Abe, and Rosita to accompany him on the Maggie search.

It was Glenn's "We can only make it together" line that convinced Arron to bring CDB to Alexandria.

His death would affect each member in a way that someone else's wouldn't. So there's my two cents.

That's kind of what I posted in the Speculation/Spoilers thread before Sunday's show, that this sends a message to the whole group and not only Rick. Glenn also fell in love with Maggie and thus drew Hershel's family into the fold, saved Tara, had the whole Enid thing (including how those you lose are always part of you), joked with Daryl back when he was really outside the group, was with Heath for the Savior killing, said something in the previous episode to Michonne about how they all came together as a family by luck (I think, I need to rewatch--it was another of Glenn's Hershel-like utterances) ... He has the most connections among the group and killing either Glenn or Maggie has an obvious narrative impact. And in a way represents an end of the original Atlanta story as we embark upon a new, larger world.

 

And there's that weird POV from the truck and the fact that a sadist would enjoying KNOWING someone else in the group is about to be personally devastated, which he knows due to Glenn's reaction toward Maggie.

 

Dumpstergate (seriously, poor Steven Yeun) plus all the Abe/Eugene stuff, though, I don't know. Abe certainly makes sense, too. Although with his recent baby and family talk, Glenn's death might also enrage him for the Negan fight. He could be a Very Very Red Herring.

 

Glenn killed that freaking walker from a chair in Woodbury, though. He'd take it like a champ. And he's a good guy who has always given people a chance. UGH. I will hate it if so.

 

The hard left turn might relate to something totally different, like Morgan and Carol, who knows.

Edited April 6, 2016 by EllenC

[RainOnToosdays]

Nashville wrote:

 

Ok, let's see what I can guess up regarding the Champ of the Apocalypse:

        Negan wants productive workers who are docile, or at least controllable; strong enough to work, but no strong enough to give him problems.

        This immediately lets family members off the hook (Glenn/Maggie, and Rick/Carl - maybe Rick/Carl/Michonne even, depending upon how observant Negan is).  By leaving families intact for the present, Negan always has leverage to maintain control over any one of them by threatening their loved one(s).

        Probably lets Aaron, Rosita, Sasha and Eugene off the hook as well.  All three came across as nonconfrontational - especially Eugene - and all appear strong enough to work without appearing strong enough to cause any immediate problems.

    

    Which leaves us:

        Daryl: wounded enough at present not to kick up much of a fuss, but will heal up eventually.

        Abraham: strong as an ox, and just did his level best to stare down this Negan motherdicker....

    

    Any guesses who my money's on...?

 

Totally agree. Negan is obviously a pro at using fear to control people. My initial gut reaction to Glen making a scene over Maggie was NO NO NO don't show your cards like that .... But I think it actually benefited him and Maggie as they are now safe for the above reason.

 

From a tactical standpoint taking out the biggest physical threat first is wise but beating a woman (especially a pregnant one or a young tiny looking thing like Rosita) or child to death would I think have maximum psychological impact on the survivors because it is just so totally taboo. You want to display just how deranged and heartless you are, that you will do absolutely anything to keep your subjects under control, that's one way to do it. But I don't think he did.

 

My money is on Abe, too. I will be completely shocked if it turns out to be anyone else. He's the biggest physical threat, he said his goodbyes to Eugene, and he was planning a future with Sasha. The show built up his character this season making him more than just a cartoon spouting one-liners, and they gave him hope, so yeah I think of course they are going to kill him off.

I've read comments that's Abe death wouldn't have much impact because he doesn't have strong enough ties to any of the other characters, that's he's little more than  a glorified red-shirt. But I disagree. Abe's been around since just after the fall of the prison, he went through the horror at the trough at Terminus with the other men in the group, he's saved Glen's life at least three times that I remember, he saved Eugene, he's saved Michonne and Carl & Judith, and he has/had a romantic tie to two other characters. He may not be one of the Atlanta Five but he's still a core member of the family at this point so I think his death will be traumatic for the other characters and the audience.

Also, Abe's story started out with him beating several men to death so dying the same way sort of fits with Morgan's "everything comes full circle".

[EllenC]

Also, Abe's story started out with him beating several men to death so dying the same way sort of fits with Morgan's "everything comes full circle".

That's a good point. I think for Rick, Glenn could also represent that, due to the tank introduction. Glenn brought him to this family.

I will be really surprised by anyone other than Abe (I don't think he was at the trough, though?) or Glenn. There are so many show anvils for each of them, too.

Edited April 6, 2016 by EllenC

[EllenC]

BTW, do you guys think Dwight shot Daryl just to subdue or punish him, or in some weird way to try and save him from Lucille (because Negan was less likely to pick someone already weakened like that)? Dwight SAID he meant to hit Daryl with the crossbow, but maybe that's not true.

 

Dwight is clearly a magical forest ninja, so he could have killed Daryl by now had he wanted to!

Edited April 6, 2016 by EllenC

[morgankobi]

BTW, do you guys think Dwight shot Daryl just to subdue or punish him, or in some weird way to try and save him from Lucille (because Negan was less likely to pick someone already weakened like that)? Dwight SAID he meant to hit Daryl with the crossbow, but maybe that's not true.

 

Dwight is clearly a magical forest ninja, so he could have killed Daryl had he wanted to!

Some comic readers mention that, but nothing tv!Negan has said indicates tv!Negan shares that philosophy. I don't think he was kidding about putting Maggie out of her misery.

I also don't think Dwight was lying about trying to hit Daryl.

Edited April 6, 2016 by morgankobi

[catrox14]

From the 6.16 thread

 

 

I do wonder what/who they're going to put on the Season 7 poster. I don't know who they're gonna put on the trailer either.

 

For maximum troll effect until the premiere

 

--First poster being either Lucille by itself with blood dripping from it and the fuzzy silhouette of a dead body at the bottom or  a series of posters with each character's silhouette.

--Negan holding Lucille in a baseball player pose, arms crossed and holding the bat in one hand with blood dripping from and brain matter on it. 

-- Release 8 different posters with a silhouette of each characters dead body at the bottom

 

Then once the deceased is revealed: 

 

-- If' it's not Rick, then Negan holding Lucille looking smug standing back to back with Rick holding his gun (Two sides of the same coin which is the theme Kirkman was suggesting on The Talking Dead) 

-- Or Rick, Michonne, Carl standing together united with Negan on the other side.

 

In all cases IMO Negan will be the focus of posters for the first wave.

 

 

IMO Negan is going to try to llure both Carl and Michonne to his side and put them under his protection/"employment" citing Rick's alleged cowardice in opposition to Negan's schtick.

 

I'm worried MIchonne, having not been with the group during that outing in the RV will interpret Rick's behavior at the end as an act of cowardice vs Rick trying to protect the whole group by standing down and being terrified for all of them, including himself which is not a bad thing necessarily.  I HOPE I'm wrong and she sees it differently knowing and loving him and having faith in him that he wasn't a coward. 

 

I think Rick will not negotiate after the death and it becomes a battle of Negan trying to break up CDB/ASZ through manipulation and coercion. Divide and conquer basically. 

[EllenC]

I haven't read the comics, only heard bits and pieces about them. Since Daryl's not in the comics, I'm not sure where they're going with him and Dwight. If anywhere! Gunshot could have even marked him to be the victim.

Edited April 6, 2016 by EllenC

[MissScarlett]

The more I think about this and the fact that Norman Reedus is getting a lot of other work apart from TWD, I the more I think the big death is going to be Daryl. 

 

Think about it. If The Saviors have been watching the Alexandria and CDB crew as closely as we think they have, then they know that Daryl is Rick's right-hand guy.  If this is about the changing of power, then you will want to take out one of the strongest to send a message. Therefore, I believe the women are safe and Glenn and Carl are safe as well.

 

Abe was pretty defiant and Negan took notice, so it could still be him.  I just can't understand Negan taking out one of the weakest to send a message.  Even if it is a beloved character / group member.  I would "think" the play would be to take out one of the stronger members so that they weaken as a group. You are only as strong as your weakest link.

 

Also, someone up-thread mentioned that there was speculation that they filmed it this way so that people wouldn't outright quit the show before Season 7.  This way, they get sucked in a little and it maybe forces them to give Season 7 a chance.

 

Now, my for my personal opinion -- I don't think I would want to watch this show without Daryl. If he were killed off, I think it would be a death too soon.  However, he didn't have any big storylines for character growth this passed season and he has gone from being a deviant loner to someone who has forged real connections and has become a major part of the group.  His death would be tragic and it would be a game changer for the group dynamics -- especially for the core group of badasses.

[Nashville]

That's a good point. I think for Rick, Glenn could also represent that, due to the tank introduction.

I will be really surprised by anyone other than Abe (I don't think he was at the trough, though?) or Glenn. There are so many show anvils for each of them, too.

Agree.

On a personal note, I'm hoping Glenn survives.

Nothing against Abraham, but Glenn's character is (relatively speaking) so much more evolved and complex than Abraham's.

Glenn is the moral compass of a show when assumption of that role has historically been tantamount to a death sentence* - yet Glenn is still around. Why? Because he's fucking Houdini, that's why. This skinny little Asian kid should be the walker equivalent of a Slim Jim, yet he has the survival gene in spades. You can tie him to a chair in a locked room with a free-range rotter, come back in an hour, and he's ripped the arm off the chair, headspiked the zombie with it, freed himself, and be cleaning his teeth with a toothpick from the splinters while he waits for you to unlock the door - assuming he hasn't already gotten out of the room, that is.

Glenn is easily one of the most versatile members of the CDB crew. The writers have (with the exception of the dumpster bit) squandered a lot of Glenn's potential recently, and reduced him somewhat to the role of preachy moralizer** - but that's a reason to amp up the writing, not liquidate the character's potential outright.

Now contrast Glenn and Abraham; what does Abe bring to the table?

One-liners, and Abe's version of Hank the Tank.

Uhhh - yeah, that's pretty much it. Comic relief, and over-the-top assault tactics.

Abraham's primary moral dilemma is where he wants to stick his dick next, and why.

That serves Abraham well; the rest of the crew and the plot line, however?

Not so much.

* Granted recent events appear to be leading up to a shift of the moral compass role from Glenn to Morgan, but I don't mind that a bit. It doesn't change the fact Glenn is still one of the most morally cognizant members of CDB - plus, it removes THAT particular target on Glenn's back.

** That's Praying Gabe's territory, dammit. Back the fuck off.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Nashville

[HalcyonDays]

Checking out this thread while there's still little chance of a serious spoiler ... Halcyon Days, I think those of us who prefer to stay spoiler free can just keep to the Speculation without Spoilers thread. Traffic there is usually pretty light. So I think it can absorb any spoiler-free Season 7 spec.

 

Yeah, that's fine, if that's what everyone wants. If you guys want a completely separate Season 7 Speculation thread sans spoilers, I can do that too. Speculation without Spoilers does have less traffic, so it could stay there.

 

As long as we do it in a way that help prevent spoilers, I'm good!

[catcory]

Will THE WALKING DEAD (tv) World award horrific megalomania and cruelty with ongoing power ❓      ... Or, will the RICKers prevail ...❓

The RICKers will prevail, maybe not immediately but they will prevail.

[catcory]

From the 6.16 thread

 

 

IMO Negan is going to try to llure both Carl and Michonne to his side and put them under his protection/"employment" citing Rick's alleged cowardice in opposition to Negan's schtick.

 

I'm worried MIchonne, having not been with the group during that outing in the RV will interpret Rick's behavior at the end as an act of cowardice vs Rick trying to protect the whole group by standing down and being terrified for all of them, including himself which is not a bad thing necessarily.  I HOPE I'm wrong and she sees it differently knowing and loving him and having faith in him that he wasn't a coward. 

 

I think Rick will not negotiate after the death and it becomes a battle of Negan trying to break up CDB/ASZ through manipulation and coercion. Divide and conquer basically.

But does Negan know that Michonne is Rick's girlfriend, if he did then he would use that in some way against Rick. Michonne loves Rick and she has seen him go through so much so she knows he is not a coward.

[maystone]

The thing I hate most about the cliffhanger ending is that it supplanted everything else that happened in that final half hour. I thought that Andrew Lincoln acted the hell out of those scenes. It was scary and heartbreaking to see Rick like that. I know he can be an asshole and really, really overconfident at times, but he took his position as a leader to heart; to see him that frightened and panicked and brought low in the course of a few hours (in show time) - that seems to have been swept aside by the uproar over the last thirty seconds. I think that decision was a disservice to everyone involved in the Negan's camp scene.

[lulee]

The more I think about this and the fact that Norman Reedus is getting a lot of other work apart from TWD, I the more I think the big death is going to be Daryl.

I wouldn't read too much into him having his new show - it is on AMC after all - the network would be very motivated to use his high profile to their advantage. Reedus has film credits that go back to 1997 and was one of the best known castmembers when the show premiered. He ought to be getting work outside of TWD's filming months.

[catcory]

The thing I hate most about the cliffhanger ending is that it supplanted everything else that happened in that final half hour. I thought that Andrew Lincoln acted the hell out of those scenes. It was scary and heartbreaking to see Rick like that. I know he can be an asshole and really, really overconfident at times, but he took his position as a leader to heart; to see him that frightened and panicked and brought low in the course of a few hours (in show time) - that seems to have been swept aside by the uproar over the last thirty seconds. I think that decision was a disservice to everyone involved in the Negan's camp scene.

Totally agree, AL was fantastic in all his scenes, you could feel his pain and anguish and for me it was heartbreaking to see him. He started his journey very confident that they would get Maggie to the doctor and with each stop you could see him dissolving right in front of us. I have said this before but when he saw that walker with Michonne's hair and when he ripped it off of her you could see his heart breaking in that instant, not knowing if the woman he loves is alive or dead. AL really acted the hell out of that scene. When he is on his knees you can further feel his pain in knowing that his actions have brought all these people to this point. But he still does not know if Michonne is alive or dead. When he finally sees her there is not a damn thing he can do, because in that instant, he knows that they will use his love for her against both of them.

[Lady Iris]

My vision of the season 7 opener takes place back in Alexandria, people going about their business of now working for Negan, a shot of a grave with a specially marked memorial, with that person's name written on the wall and blah blah blah. No continuation of the very ending but a time jump ahead.

 

The show could've let us in on who it was. GoT wasn't shy about saying, "Yep Jon Snow is dead and that's that." We're not kiddies that need to be protected from the awfulness it's going to be regardless of who got it.

[RainOnToosdays]

I will be really surprised by anyone other than Abe (I don't think he was at the trough, though?) or Glenn.

 

Huh. I thought all of the men were taken out of the boxcar and brought to the slaughter room but now I am not sure.

[catrox14]

But does Negan know that Michonne is Rick's girlfriend, if he did then he would use that in some way against Rick. Michonne loves Rick and she has seen him go through so much so she knows he is not a coward.

 

I made a longer post in the episode thread or spoilers..I forget, that I think Negan knew more about CDB than he let on. He knew Carl was Rick's son before Rick told him to leave him alone..So I think he has intel or inklings...

 

I totally agree Michonne loves Rick and believes he's not a coward. I'm saying I wouldn't be surprised if the show went there to created ALL the angst and drama.

[TVFan17]

Yeah, that's fine, if that's what everyone wants. If you guys want a completely separate Season 7 Speculation thread sans spoilers, I can do that too. Speculation without Spoilers does have less traffic, so it could stay there.

 

As long as we do it in a way that help prevent spoilers, I'm good!

 

I'm sure I'm the only one who feels this way -- I'm slow on the uptake, I guess! -- but I am starting to get confused with the number of threads that have the Spoiler tag at the start of the title.  It was easier for me to just go to one thread -- the Watch Duty thread -- where spoilers for upcoming episodes would be revealed.  (It won't be too long -- another couple of months -- before word leaks out on who was seen filming Season 7.)   And then there is the non-spoiler thread revolving around Speculation, theories, etc. 

 

Those 2 threads were easy for me to keep track of... but now there is a relationship/love thread that has the spoiler tag, and I guess that means that spoilers from previous episodes are discussed, but not from future episodes? 

 

And now we have this thread, but I can't tell if spoilers from the upcoming season are supposed to be talked about here, or if only speculation is supposed to be talked about here but not in the other Speculation thread, or if this specific thread is just for venting about the frustrating Season 6 finale.

 

As I said, I'm likely the only one who is confused with all of the threads, but confused I am!

Edited April 6, 2016 by Sherry67

[GreyBunny]

I've decided I'm not going to put any more effort into trying to figure out who died.  If the show is going to be that dickish then I'm not going to play their game.  Who died?  I don't care.

 

The only question I want answered now is is CDB going to give Hilltop a refund?  They didn't kill Negan and his gang like they said they would so they should give Hilltop their food and supplies back.

[slade3]

I made a longer post in the episode thread or spoilers..I forget, that I think Negan knew more about CDB than he let on. He knew Carl was Rick's son before Rick told him to leave him alone..So I think he has intel or inklings...

 

I totally agree Michonne loves Rick and believes he's not a coward. I'm saying I wouldn't be surprised if the show went there to created ALL the angst and drama.

I often worry about what writers will do to their characters to amp up the drama, but I've read Andrew Lincoln's comment that Rick and Michonne are adults and this always comforts me. I don't think they'll go down the angsty-road with these two. Michonne is too smart for that and both Rick and Michonne have too much on their plates to play games about their feelings. Michonne has always been very intuitive when it comes to Rick. She will know he did everything in his power to save the people in that RV. If, after watching Negan bash in the head of a member of their "family", Michonne walked away from Rick for being a coward, that would be a total destruction of her character after so many seasons. I just don't think they'd go there.

 

On a personal note, I'm hoping Glenn survives.

Nothing against Abraham, but Glenn's character is (relatively speaking) so much more evolved and complex than Abraham's.

 

I really like Glenn. I know without a doubt the three characters I absolutely want to survive are Rick, Michonne and Carl. But I'm kind of surprised that Glenn and Daryl come in next for me. And then Maggie and Sasha. And then Aaron. I feel terribly guilty that I'm hoping Abraham is the victim because I like Michael Cudlitz a lot. And I loved Abe's scene with Rick at the end of East. But I don't care for most of his scenes on the show.

 

I've read comments that some fans want to see Abe fight in a scene they believe is coming up from the comics, and I get that. He would be a true badass. But I don't want to see that enough to sacrifice the 8 characters I mentioned.

Edited April 6, 2016 by slade3

[catcory]

The only question I want answered now is is CDB going to give Hilltop a refund?  They didn't kill Negan and his gang like they said they would so they should give Hilltop their food and supplies back.

I actually think that the Hilltop has major explaining to do, they had to know that there were more than 20 people in the Saviors since they have been dealing with them for quite a while, because Jesus said that as soon as the walls went up the Saviors showed up.

I would certainly hope that the writers don't go anywhere near the relationship of Rick and Michonne, especially after just having them discover that they love each other.

[Mu Shu]

My vision of the season 7 opener takes place back in Alexandria, people going about their business of now working for Negan, a shot of a grave with a specially marked memorial, with that person's name written on the wall and blah blah blah. No continuation of the very ending but a time jump ahead.

The show could've let us in on who it was. GoT wasn't shy about saying, "Yep Jon Snow is dead and that's that." We're not kiddies that need to be protected from the awfulness it's going to be regardless of who got it.

Yep. I mean, Beth got shot in the head, and it was forgotten as soon as it happened. They always leave loose ends. I fully expect to see our group on the work farm, and we find out who it was by process of elimination. Oh, yeah, Abe/Eugene/Etc is missing. Must have been him/her.

Fuckers. I will not forgive nor forget the Glenn fake out, nor the interminable red herrings, i.e. Bobs box, side braid portrait, rascally rabbit skinner, Carol going rogue, etc etc.

[Anela]

I've decided I'm not going to put any more effort into trying to figure out who died.  If the show is going to be that dickish then I'm not going to play their game.  Who died?  I don't care.

 

The only question I want answered now is is CDB going to give Hilltop a refund?  They didn't kill Negan and his gang like they said they would so they should give Hilltop their food and supplies back.

I would tell them to eff off if they wanted their supplies back, for the same reason given by someone else above. They can't have dealt this long with Negan, and not known that his men would hugely outnumber them. 

 

I'm not going to keep trying to guess who died, either. 

Edited April 7, 2016 by Anela

[Ripley68]

How unsuccessful can the finale  have been if we're all talking about it?  I too was pissed with the ending.  I think they should  have ended with Neegan saying, "...you..."  Showing the person he was pointing at, and then him swinging back for the hit, fade to black.  Next season starts with cuts to reactions of CDB interspliced with cuts of Neegan swinging - but not showing connection (the last crunch was sickening enough). 

 

What I want to see:

Rick telling Jesus they need to have a serious discussion and hauling off and hitting him

I don't want Neegan to be pure evil.  I have to admit that in the book, I didn't really hate him.  Yeah, his method of meeting new groups is violent and grotesque; his punishments are overly severe; but he is actually doing a fairly decent job of leading a group of people and keeping a large group together.  He also does have a sense of morality (no stealing among community, no rape - ever and some others), and he is totally aware that what he is doing isn't fair and is wrong, and is completely understanding that people won't like him. The other bad guys didn't - never could understand why people didn't like them or weren't on their sides.

I don't want to see the tiger - even in the book I was like...oh, come on! Though maybe a throw away scene of some escaped zoo animals could add some levity.

[LeeMoon]

Tiger? Negan pointed at Daryl and called him a tiger. I have no idea about the comics though, so I don't know if it means anything.

[jsbt]

Fuckers. I will not forgive nor forget the Glenn fake out, nor the interminable red herrings, i.e. Bobs box, side braid portrait, rascally rabbit skinner, Carol going rogue, etc etc.

 

Aside from the Glenn fakeout I don't remember what any of that is or why it should be bad.

[lulee]

Yep. I mean, Beth got shot in the head, and it was forgotten as soon as it happened. They always leave loose ends. I fully expect to see our group on the work farm, and we find out who it was by process of elimination. Oh, yeah, Abe/Eugene/Etc is missing. Must have been him/her.

Fuckers. I will not forgive nor forget the Glenn fake out, nor the interminable red herrings, i.e. Bobs box, side braid portrait, rascally rabbit skinner, Carol going rogue, etc etc.

Lizzie was the rabbit skinner at the prison, and YMMV, but I don't think the rest were plot red herrings. I think they were more about characters or symbolism/ themes (like the recurrence of the side-braided woman/ girl).

[eejm]

I think the victim was either Eugene or Abraham.  Strangely enough, I'm kind of OK with either possibility.  I like both characters very much, but both have had very satisfying character development in my opinion.  Eugene morphed from someone who concocted an elaborate lie to obtain protection, someone whose incompetence annoyed his fellow survivors to no end, to someone who not only contributed greatly to the group (learned to kill walkers, pushed crop development, provided a bullet recipe) but also drove an RV into enemy territory for the greater good.  I'd be fine if Eugene goes now, because he'd go out on top.  

 

Abraham's trajectory is a bit less linear, but I feel like I understand him more than many of the other characters.  The Abraham-centric episode that showed his backstory (one of my very favorite TWD episodes) showed that he was in 100% traumatized soldier mode until Alexandria gave him a new lease on life.  His death would affect most of the CDB/Alexandria group deeply, from Rosita and Sasha to Tara and Rick.  

 

On the other hand, everyone else in the line up doesn't quite "fit" as an effective victim:

 

- Maggie - Something is obviously wrong with her or her baby, or perhaps the theory floating around about Enid working for the Saviors and poisoning Maggie are correct.  The audience is meant to find out about that problem.  If Maggie was killed, her illness would have just been a cheap plot device to get her onboard the RV.  

- Aaron - We know Aaron is a very decent guy...but that's about all we know about him.  He's liked by CDB, but he isn't part of the group quite yet.  Aaron dying wouldn't have the desired emotional effect on either CDB or the audience.

- Glenn - I keep thinking that because this is Glenn's death in the comics, it makes him too "easy" to be the victim on the show.  Besides, with Glenn's fake death earlier in the season, I think the writers know that killing him now would really piss the audience off.

- Rosita - Her death would hit Abraham, Eugene, and Tara hard.  Sasha may feel incredibly guilty  as well.  But if TV Negan is anything like Comic Negan - well, he likes the ladies and would probably take a shine to Rosita.  

- Sasha - She's been with the group for a long time, and her death would his Abraham hard.  But what applies to Rosita also applies to Sasha - she's pretty and would appeal to a malignant narcissist who fancies himself a ladies' man.

- Michonne - Her death (or Carl's) would be the surest way to crush Rick.  But being that Rick/Michonne just started, I seriously doubt the writing team would put the kibosh on it this quickly.  Besides, Michonne would also likely be on Negan's future harem list as well.

- Daryl - Nah.  AMC knows they have a mint with him.  Unless Norman Reedus wanted to leave the show, Daryl isn't going to be killed off.

- Carl - No due to the eye-feeding comment.

- Rick - Pssht.  No.

 

So in my opinion, Eugene and Abraham are the only viable options.  I hope my theory is correct.

[Dobian]

I don't care who it is at this point, they missed their shot.  Now it will be anticlimactic.  I mean, who does a cliffhanger where you see someone get killed, everyone in the scene sees who gets killed, but you don't know who it is who got killed because the camera won't show you?  That's not a cliffhanger, that's just withholding information.  A cliffhanger is when you wonder how something is going to turn out, like, you know, did they live or die?  Well we already know - they died!  Stupidest cliffhanger in the history of cliffhangers.

[J----av]

My vision of the season 7 opener takes place back in Alexandria, people going about their business of now working for Negan, a shot of a grave with a specially marked memorial, with that person's name written on the wall and blah blah blah. No continuation of the very ending but a time jump ahead.

 

The show could've let us in on who it was. GoT wasn't shy about saying, "Yep Jon Snow is dead and that's that." We're not kiddies that need to be protected from the awfulness it's going to be regardless of who got it.

Well GOTs wanted everyone to think Jon is dead because they want the surprise for when he comes back. Its not even close to the same situation and GOTs probably botched the Jon death just as much as TWD botched the lucille kill

[slade3]

I would love to say I'm no longer going to try to figure out who the victim is, but I'd be lying.

 

TSDF seems confident they'll have an answer long before October, so maybe we won't have to keep guessing. Apparently, cast and crew have already started showing up to set, which confirms their belief from several weeks ago that TWD might start filming in April this year. 

 

So I'm leaning toward either Abraham and Glenn here.

 

Glenn: because Scott Gimple said the finale is the end of a story and the season 7 premiere is the beginning of a new story when he was on TD. Personally, I think AMC execs pushed for a cliffhanger to get the highest ratings possible, and I think Gimple had to come up with the best way to make a cliffhanger make sense. And I think it could have worked on a different show. They had to come with something, and as people have already mentioned, Glenn makes the most sense as a victim who would end a story for everyone and force them to have a "new beginning". In the comics

Maggie blames Rick for Glenn's death and goes to Hilltop. I'm not sure if she goes to Hilltop to get away from Rick, and I'm not sure if anyone else leaves with her (but I think some people do)

Isn't that the definition of a "new beginning"?  I think there are a lot of reasons why he isn't the victim, too - the strongest being the anger over his fake out death earlier in the season and, isn't he the only Asian character on the show?

 

I recently read that Andrew Lincoln said Rick will not be the same after this. No, he won't be the same after any of the deaths, but a Glenn death would hurt even more because he isn't only blaming himself for it;

Maggie's blaming him too. And possibly leaving, changing the group, possibly bringing others with her.

 

Today, Glenn's death makes the most sense to me storywise. (I could change my mind tomorrow!)

 

Abraham: To me, Abraham would not have as great an impact as Glenn but I mentioned the other day that I won't be surprised if Sasha

gets Holly's comic death. I originally felt Abraham had to be alive for that, but wouldn't it change the landscape of things if Abraham is the victim and Sasha loses her desire to survive? In the comics, Dwight is captured by Rick and released to Negan alive, which upsets many people in his group. Negan has Holly (the woman Abe leaves Rosita for in the comics) and returns her to Rick with a bag over her head. But when she is behind the walls, Rick's crew realizes Holly has been killed and turned. She kills Denise. If Abraham and Sasha are murdered by Negan, that would mean Negan has taken two of Rick's valuable "soldiers"/family members in very cruel ways. In the comics, I believe Dwight's release is the last straw for Andrea and the reason Rick has to tell her his true plan for Negan.

So, technically, Abe and Sasha could also bring about the new beginning for the group, too.

 

“I think what happened and is about to happen at the beginning of the next season is going to change irrevocably who [Rick] is from now on. That’s if he makes it past the bat…” -Andy Lincoln

 

AL's comment about Rick made me a little nervous. I immediately thought of Rick's angry "You wanted this place" to Michonne in the season 5 finale. I know I said yesterday that the writers won't play games with these two because they're adults, but I'm wavering. I still think the natural progression is for Michonne to be the rock he needs to get back to his leadership position and a rift in their relationship over this would be a disappointment to me (and a waste of time), but when executives chime in...

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/the-walking-dead-season-6-finale-andrew-lincoln-rick-grimes-negan-a6969241.html

[Anela]

I read on the twitter of the new guy (the "knight") that he was already filming.