S06.E15: East

[LeeMoon]

Oh, God, that ending came out of nowhere and I don't know what to say.

 

I don't want Daryl to die! I'm not ready!

 

edit - I just finished the episode a second ago.

Edited March 28, 2016 by LeeMoon

[Nashville]

Maggie's haircut reminded me of how she looked when we first met her. Now if only her accent would go back to that. It wasn't great, but it was better than the mush she spits out now.

Aesthetically, I prefer long hair (so sue me already - I'm a child of the 60s-70s); in practical terms, however, I don't see why anybody - female OR male - would wear long hair in the ZA. It's hotter, it holds more dirt, and it's just something else an opponent (living or undead) could grab hold of. So I think Maggie's crop chop was long overdue.

[ShadowSixx]

Of the Elite 4 (Rick, Daryl, Michonne, Carol), two are captured, one is injured and missing, one is where he should be. I just cant with this show, it made not one bit of sense for half the town to go tearing out after Daryl but then for everyone to get caught......I dont know, it just didnt work for me.

 

Isn't it ridiculous and as others said it's so stupid how three of them go in a truck to go looking for Daryl who is more than capable of taking care of himself. Originally just Michonne and Glenn were gonna go but Rosita hopped in the car cause she knew where Daryl went. Since Daryl was on some revenge mission they should have let him handle that on his own. Just like Michonne did with the Governor. Yea she lead Rick, Oscar, & Daryl to the prison to save Glenn & Maggie but she dealt with the Governor on her own which I think Michonne would have went back to Woodbury without them. 

[kj4ever]

  

You're not taking into account the mindset of the Big Dog.

By all appearances the Saviors have been the Big Dogs in this area for quite a while. Long enough so to have become accustomed to taking everything they want, and everybody acquiescing to their demands. Long enough so they have gravitated to the mindset that everything and everybody within their sphere of influence already belongs to them, and they just haven't had the time or inclination to take all of it yet. An arrogant mindset to be sure - but one which could be quite understandable, depending upon their circumstances and past history.

Now, however, another Big Dog has moved into the neighborhood - CDB - and is challenging the Saviors' accustomed dominance. Like the Saviors, CDB has had enough successes under its belt to think it can handle anything or anyone who crosses its path - enough so for CDB to carry its own particular air of arrogant superiority.

So what happens when one Big Dog is challenged by another Big Dog for his territory?

Simple: a dogfight - initially, at least.

As to who'll win...?

Depends. CDB clearly has superior fighting skills; heck, Carol is already up on them 7-0 to date by herself at last count. But if (as I suspect) the Saviors have sufficiently greater numbers, CDB's advantage may be nullified. It does no good for Group A to be outkilling Group B 20-to-1 if Group B can send 50 "soldiers" for every member of CDB.

Anyway, my point is: Big Dogs don't dodge a fight when it comes to defending what they consider THEIR territory - they defend it, fiercely.

Anything else they may have had an idea of eating in bed would have probably taken too long. Maggie does have them on a tight schedule, after all. ;>

   

That may come back to the arrogance born of success. CDB has gotten so accustomed to fighting and besting incompetent opponents that they're getting sloppy.

 

Every time CDB has some facetime with a group of Saviors, I find myself recalling a piece of James Garner's dialogue from "Support Your Local Sheriff ":

Its bad enough to have to kill a man without having to listen to a whole lot of stupid talk from him first.

;)

The other big dogs seem to be a lot smarter than CDB...Not only are they going to fight, but it seems like the Saviors were smart enough to do recon.  They know the name of the camp so obviously they have been watching them.  How in the world Rick and Co never learn these lessons after all they been through is beyond me.

 

I could almost be done with Rick at this point, and I didn't think that was possible.  With his Govenor sounding "I'm the fucking king of the world" speech in the morning to the "I would have killed Karen and David myself" shit.....Really Rick?  At this point are you all that much better than the other big bads, or just one step away from becoming one?  At least maybe his little speech with Red at the end makes it seems like he's scared of having a relationship, so maybe once all the shit goes down Michonne will be free of him!

[ghoulina]

Amen. I guess treading water and padding things out till Negan finally arrives?

 

I feel like this entire season has been built around Negan. I think they went into it knowing two things - 1. Negan's group drops the hint of his name on the mid-season finale. 2. We finally MEET Negan on the regular finale. Everything else has been built around that. I could be wrong, but that's how it's coming across to me, and it's super annoying. 

[peach]

Peach - if you went off in the woods to look for Dwight I would come and find you :)

 

And I promise not to shout a monologue in the woods and get you captured.  :D

[LeeMoon]

I think this episode was about how the group was broken. Glenn had his speech about how they were lucky getting together and making it work. They showed different couples and people running on their own.

 

The group broke into little units and Rick lost his control over his previously united army.

 

By the way - I get chills every time Dwight and Daryl meet. The whole set up and the actors really make this work.

Edited March 28, 2016 by LeeMoon

[catrox14]

 

I could almost be done with Rick at this point, and I didn't think that was possible.  With his Govenor sounding "I'm the fucking king of the world" speech in the morning to the "I would have killed Karen and David myself" shit.....Really Rick?  At this point are you all that much better than the other big bads, or just one step away from becoming one?  At least maybe his little speech with Red at the end makes it seems like he's scared of having a relationship, so maybe once all the shit goes down Michonne will be free of him!

 

 

For those that don't think Rick is good enough for Michonne, I'm genuinely curious why you think she chose to be with him vs anyone else or remaining partner free? (Non-because -the -writers made her do it -division).

[peach]

The Saviors really need to consider renaming themselves the Asshole Monologuers.  It would save everybody a lot of time by letting them know who they're dealing with.  Yeah, they're going to kill you but you've got a good 5-10 minutes of listening to them pontificate about it first where if you're quick about it you may have a shot.

 

I've thought about this, and figure nobody really gets to meet too many people anymore.  Maybe they just can't help themselves. Maybe these are people who used to write political screeds on facebook, and now they only have a handful of people who've already heard their shit 100 times.  Dwight definitely seems excited about forcing someone to listen to him.

[Boofish]

For those that don't think Rick is good enough for Michonne, I'm genuinely curious why you think she chose to be with him vs anyone else or remaining partner free? (Non-because -the -writers made her do it -division).

I feel like this debate should go the way of Buttons (RIP Buttons POP hold it down). I read some good arguments for and against (myself on the pro side)

 

No matter how much I read, how humorous the post or how well written I will never see Rick as the Governor or Negan. Ever. He does not get out of bed, get dressed, strap on a piece, wake his henchmen and hit the road for the sole purpose of looking for people to kill and things to steal. 

[peach]

I don't disagree that Morgan's actions re: the wolf guy wasn't dangerous and stupid.  But everything is a matter of perspective.  We never get the wolf guy's perspective we don't know what pushed him to be what he is in that moment.  Kinda like someone happening upon Carol shooting Lizzie in the head could make the assumption that she was a psycho child killer and needed to be put down.  We constantly get "our" people's side of things so it easy to default to their perspective and feel they are right. 

 

Who cares what his perspective is?  Is there some sob story good enough to go, ohhhh, okay, slaughter us all, then?  Not to mention every person left in the world has been through hell.

 

If someone came upon Carol gunning down a kid in a field, and they shot her for it, instead of having a heart to heart with her over what led her to this position, I think most people would understand it. Well, except Morgan and this board. 

[Boofish]

I would also like to add Rick gets points added (which should cover any stupid moves for at least another season) for being the "Head Master At Morning Wood Academy" :)

[peach]

I think gabby villains must be the oldest trope out there, both in movies and TV. When the good guy cannot be allowed to die, the bad guy(s) will stand there, rambling/gloating/sneering on and on about how clever they are, how they managed to trap/trick/find the good guy, how they're going to kill him, etc, etc.

 

Lessons from Tuco:

 

[lmsweb]

I can't go back and rewatch right now, but I'm a little fuzzy. On first watch I was under the impression that Rick and Morgan were BEHIND the guy from the pickup truck carrying Carol's rosary (and that it may be his blood they're tracking). Is Rosary Guy behind or ahead of Rick and Morgan?

[Nashville]

The other big dogs seem to be a lot smarter than CDB...Not only are they going to fight, but it seems like the Saviors were smart enough to do recon.  They know the name of the camp so obviously they have been watching them.  How in the world Rick and Co never learn these lessons after all they been through is beyond me.

 

I could almost be done with Rick at this point, and I didn't think that was possible.  With his Govenor sounding "I'm the fucking king of the world" speech in the morning to the "I would have killed Karen and David myself" shit.....Really Rick?  At this point are you all that much better than the other big bads, or just one step away from becoming one?  At least maybe his little speech with Red at the end makes it seems like he's scared of having a relationship, so maybe once all the shit goes down Michonne will be free of him!

Can't put it ALL on Rick, because the last couple of episodes point out something which has become a systematic problem for CDB - their lack of communication.

• The Saviors' recon and breadth of knowledge about Alexandria? Carol knows that, from the TruckDicks; she hasn't had time or opportunity to pass on those tidbits of information, though.
• Negan the individual vs. Negan the mindset: does Rick still think he killed THE Negan when he shot Primo? We can hope Maggie and Carol enlightened Rick somewhat after their escape from the Saviors; we're only guessing, though, because TPTB didn't tell us shit one way or the other. During Morgan/Rick's "you started something" conversation I got the definite impression Rick still thought he might have ended the conflict with the shooting - right up until they came across the site of the latest Carol/Savior battle, which makes it pretty dern clear the conflict isn't over by a long shot. Did Maggie and Carol not fully debrief the rest of CDB on their experience, and what they learned about the Saviors - and, if so, why not?

As a whole, CDB has actually gathered quite a bit of intelligence about the Saviors; I'm getting a strong feeling the Intel is staying compartmentalized within individuals, though, to the point nobody in CDB is getting a Big Picture view of what's going on.

And that can't help but bite them in the ass.

[shanndee]

I feel like this debate should go the way of Buttons (RIP Buttons POP hold it down). I read some good arguments for and against (myself on the pro side)

 

No matter how much I read, how humorous the post or how well written I will never see Rick as the Governor or Negan. Ever. He does not get out of bed, get dressed, strap on a piece, wake his henchmen and hit the road for the sole purpose of looking for people to kill and things to steal. 

 

I don't think that Rick is the Governor (or Negan) 2.0...but I do think that he is now Shane 2.0. That is enough to make me question where his character is headed.  

[peach]

As a whole, CDB has actually gathered quite a bit of intelligence about the Saviors; I'm getting a strong feeling the Intel is staying compartmentalized within individuals, though, to the point nobody in CDB is getting a Big Picture view of what's going on.

And that can't help but bite them in the ass.

 

Ugh, this reminds me of season 3, especially between Michonne and Andrea.  "I just have a bad feeling about this place and the Governor," yet no actual mention of finding bullet holes and blood on the Natl Guard vehicles.  That whole season was like that.

Maybe if they didn't waste so much friggin time on moralizing, we could have discussions on what the group actually thinks about the present situation rather than their philosophy about it.

[Nashville]

I can't go back and rewatch right now, but I'm a little fuzzy. On first watch I was under the impression that Rick and Morgan were BEHIND the guy from the pickup truck carrying Carol's rosary (and that it may be his blood they're tracking). Is Rosary Guy behind or ahead of Rick and Morgan?

I think the sequence of action was:

• Carol annihilates the TruckDicks, leaving behind one gasping his last on the pavement and (unbeknownst to her) one wounded and unconscious - but alive - guy in the cab of the truck.
• Wounded Savior Guy comes to and gets out of the truck, but hides when he hears Morgan and Rick's car approaching.
• Rick and Morgan survey the carnage, then take off after what they think is Carol's path through the tall weeds.
• After Rick & Morgan's departure, WSG comes out of hiding and follows them.

No indication yet on whether anybody is actually following Carol's true path, BTW - all they've found so far is a zombie who looked like Carol, and a guy looking for his horse. So they all could be heading in the wrong direction. :P Edited March 28, 2016 by Nashville

[lmsweb]

Thanks, Nashville! I lost about 30 seconds of watching time and got mixed up on who was following who.

[AngelaHunter]

For those that don't think Rick is good enough for Michonne,

 

I'm genuinely puzzled about what makes Rick "not good enough" for Michonne. What criteria would he have to adhere to in order to be good enough for her? I'm not being facetious. I really want to know.

 

I've always thought Abe wasn't good enough for Rosita, but that's because he's a big-mouthed, crude, rude oaf who refers to a woman as "some ass" but I don't get what it is about Rick that makes him unworthy.

[phoenix780]

The real big dog may turn out to be The Hilltop. They set one potential enemy and challenger for supplies against their blackmailers. Both armed groups are now busy fighting each other so attention is off them, and competitors numbers will be thinned while the Hilltop folk build and multiply.

Unless Negan finds out their involvement, and maybe he has off screen, it's kind of a no lose situation. Worst case, back to status quo with fewer saviors to deal with. They played it smart, it seems.

[catrox14]

I feel like this debate should go the way of Buttons (RIP Buttons POP hold it down). I read some good arguments for and against (myself on the pro side)

 

No matter how much I read, how humorous the post or how well written I will never see Rick as the Governor or Negan. Ever. He does not get out of bed, get dressed, strap on a piece, wake his henchmen and hit the road for the sole purpose of looking for people to kill and things to steal. 

 

I didn't ask to pick a fight. I'm just trying to understand.  But it is probably better suited for the relationships thread.  Thanks for replying though!

[Boofish]

I didn't ask to pick a fight. I'm just trying to understand.  But it is probably better suited for the relationships thread.  Thanks for replying though!

Sorry it came off that way; just weighing in on the subject matter :)

[catcory]

Regarding Rick, the only person who really matters is Michonne and clearly she loves him and she never thought she would find love again and with the last scene of Rick at the gate waiting for Michonne, he loves her and never thought he would find love but they both have and that is a beautiful thing.

[catrox14]

Sorry it came off that way; just weighing in on the subject matter :)

 

Oh I wasn't bothered! But it is a better for the relationships thread.  And I was being sincere in my thanks! I promise!

[Boofish]

Regarding Rick, the only person who really matters is Michonne and clearly she loves him and she never thought she would find love again and with the last scene of Rick at the gate waiting for Michonne, he loves her and never thought he would find love but they both have and that is a beautiful thing.

I almost cried when Abraham said Michonne was not back and he wiped his eye. The lack of romance on this show never bothered me because they were too busy trying to find clean water but now that they are (somewhat) settled I think it's nice to see the quiet human side to them - including Abraham's feelings for Sasha

[DearEvette]

Who cares what his perspective is?  Is there some sob story good enough to go, ohhhh, okay, slaughter us all, then?  Not to mention every person left in the world has been through hell.

 

If someone came upon Carol gunning down a kid in a field, and they shot her for it, instead of having a heart to heart with her over what led her to this position, I think most people would understand it. Well, except Morgan and this board. 

 

You don't have to care. However when discussing opposite points it is useful to try to bring in such things as perspective.  The whole point of a discussion forum is discussion not utter dismissiveness.

[ToniG]

And I just grossed myself out with the thought of "maybe the fetus already died and is trying to get out".

That's exactly what I thought when she appeared to be in so much pain.

[peach]

You don't have to care. However when discussing opposite points it is useful to try to bring in such things as perspective.  The whole point of a discussion forum is discussion not utter dismissiveness.

 

My point is why would CDB care equally about the perspective of a stranger who jumped the walls to kill them for pleasure as the perspective of a person in their group?  Or why would someone outside the group care about Carol's perspective about anything?  People don't owe anything to enemies at the gate.  That's my perspective.

[catrox14]

So, I was thinking about Carol's departure.

 

She was fully prepared to go and she made travel packs for food, but that wasn't really enough food to last all that long. I mean to me it looked like it was only for a few days maybe a week or two  at most if she eats very little. So was she just going to not eat? Or was she possibly on a suicide mission to kill all the Saviors or she thought she could take them out and then come back to ASZ? 

[DearEvette]

My point is why would CDB care equally about the perspective of a stranger who jumped the walls to kill them for pleasure as the perspective of a person in their group?  Or why would someone outside the group care about Carol's perspective about anything?  People don't owe anything to enemies at the gate.  That's my perspective.

 

Ah, I see you're coming from CDB in-universe perspective, but I was coming at it from a viewer perspective to give context as to why Morgan's position isn't necessarily wrong.

[HighMaintenance]

Some brief musings on last night:

Apparently the people guarding ASZ are just sleeping on the job.  Carol steals the porcupine car under their "vigilant gaze", and the Saviors have been able to get a gander at their homes?  Ok, Spencer.  You're relieved of duty!  And take your water wafer crackers with you!

Richonne eating the apple in bed.  Am I the only one that got the Adam/Eve forbidden fruit reference?  Are they going to be ejected from "Eden"?

Tonight I learned that Enid is a faaaaabulous beautician.  Who the hell needs Jessie??  That new 'do on Maggie was bouncin and behavin, honey!  Am I the only one that heard the ghost of Shelby from Steel Magnolias say "I just want to be able to run my fingers through it and go."?

So Morgan and Rick are doing the passive/aggressive dick measuring?  Whatever.  Both have way too much hubris.

Everyone left ASZ because reasons.  Thanks, Carol!

How many Saviors are/were there?  200 +?  I'm pretty sure CDB has dispatched 50 or so.  At what point does Negan say, "Yo, hold up. These are some bad muthafuckas.  Let's just chill here in Saviortown until they calm the fuck down."

I don't know how anyone figured out who was shot at the end of the episode.  All I saw was a blood spatter and a black screen.  Did I blink?

Although the 2'nd half of season 6 has had some good episodes, I'm ready to get this over with and see the new "big bad".  I just hope the Negan/CDB meeting does not end on an unresolved blackscreen until Octover 2016. 

Edited March 29, 2016 by HalcyonDays
Spoilers

[catrox14]

Also, I was thinking that Carol had a hiding place inside the car? Did anyone bother to check in the hatchback for her? I mean the last we saw she was by the trunk of the car and we heard the gunfire. Then we see all the Saviors either dead or unconscious.   What if she just crawled inside and hid?

 

I'm wondering if the pickles gave Maggie food poisoning and maybe her pain isn't baby related?

[SimoneS]

Yeah, on top of the sheet. Sorry, Rick, but that's not the way do it. I know it's not their fault they're on a show where we can see an arrow pierce someone's eyeball but sex - oh, I mean "mixing the Bisquick" - is portrayed as though the writers are a bunch of snickering high school boys.

I give Rick a lot of credit for going in the right direction sheet or no sheet, a whole lot of men on tv and in real life have never heard of foreplay.

Edited April 3, 2016 by SimoneS

[AngelaHunter]

a whole of men on tv and in real life have never heard of foreplay.

 

I concede that point!

[riverheightsnancy]

That's exactly what I thought when she appeared to be in so much pain.

I just have to comment on this. At about 8 weeks gestation, the embryo would be about the size of a kidney bean or the size of a thumb nail.  If Maggie were 3 months along (12 weeks), the baby is now officially a fetus, it would be about the size of a lime. Her baby could be even smaller due to lack of food/nutrition and stress. There is ample research indicating that excessive stress may cause smaller size babies. Although, she could be anywhere in between, but Maggie did say that she is 2 months along.

Even if the baby didn't die, she could be in very early pre-term labor/ miscarrying. A woman will have cramps &/or back pain which are uterine contractions and they can hurt. A lot! So her pain could be that, NOT a zombie fetus. If the producers have stayed away from showing us a zombie toddler in the last episode and Zombie babies in general, there is no way (in my mind) that they would do "zombie fetus". No way. As someone stated up-thread, there is a reason they showed us Maggie's bruises. Kidney issues can be very painful as well, and it could be a misdirect. Or preterm labor and the baby is too early to be considered viable regardless. Even if she were 4 months along (16 weeks) that is well before most hospitals (with all the technology that we have to keep a baby alive) can actually keep a preterm baby alive. With all things being equal, age of viability is around 27-28 weeks and that is with a host of medical interventions, which is not really available in the ZA. I just don't think that the producers want to open this can of worms, when they have so many other irons in the fire right now. But, I could be wrong, but not about the actual normal birth milestones as noted above. :) Happy laboring! 

[oakville]

This episode for me demonstrates the issues I'm having the last few seasons with the whole show. I love this show. It's my favorite! BUT, I watch up to Season 3, and things happened. The plot advanced. People did stupid things, but it's because they were in a NEW apocalypse, not two years in.

 

Very little happened this episode. There were callbacks (protein bar), and I love me some continuity, but we spend so much of our 43 minutes being artsy, and going over a period of time that we have already seen (Carol's note to Tobin). It drives me crazy. We have two month off-screen time jumps just to spend the next 6 episodes on 24 hours. (exaggeration in this case, but you get the point.) Less time, please, show, on being artsy and having Carol cry, more having people make smart decisions. When 90% of the characters that have been with us for ages leave the walls, that is just bad decision making. It's plot contrivance at its very finest, and TWD ought to get an award for it.

 

I'm frustrated at how Gimple is running the show. More realistic (yes, with zombies) stuff, and less artsy, fartsy, WHAT DOES IT ALLL MEEEEAAAAAN??? crap. 

 

Also, who wakes up and immediately wants to eat an apple?

 

I am tired of everyone running out of Alexandria. They should be focusing on building defences against the Saviors & growing food.

[TigerLynx]

I've enjoyed several of the episodes this season, but the dumbing down of the characters in certain instances to move the plot along is lazy writing and unnecessary.  It's a ZA.  With the zombies roaming around, break down of society, and people having to scrounge for provisions and supplies, there are enough organic scenarios which would lead to dangerous and tragic circumstances without all the characters losing their functioning brain cells to make it happen.

 

I'm wondering if Jesus and Company knew Negan's group was much much larger, and intentionally set up Rick's group to draw attention away from Hilltop for a while.

 

Also, why is it that groups like the Saviors, Terminus, Claimers and Woodbury don't run into each other and have a war.  There's all these murderous psychopaths running around, and Rick's group constantly runs into them, but somehow they avoid each other, and Saviors vs. Terminus, etc., never happens.

 

It's as annoying as all these people who have no survival skills whatsoever managing to survive by sheer dumb luck until they run into Rick's group at which point it's just a matter of time before their number is up.

[oakville]

I feel like this entire season has been built around Negan. I think they went into it knowing two things - 1. Negan's group drops the hint of his name on the mid-season finale. 2. We finally MEET Negan on the regular finale. Everything else has been built around that. I could be wrong, but that's how it's coming across to me, and it's super annoying. 

 

I am surprised that Negan's group never found Alexandria before CDB showed up.

[hoosiermommy]

Morgan = the government<br /><br />"Fixing problems we created since 1776."

[SpaghettiTuesdays]

I couldn't help but laugh at Daryl getting shot (I know, bring out the pitchforks) simply because he's my mom's favorite and she talks about him annoyingly often. But don't you dare hurt Maggie or Glenn! I'll come at you, bro!

 

FPP's arc is rather interesting. Maybe he will be sacrificed so Judith can live. Maybe she will shoot him, a la Maggie Simpson and Mr. Burns. 

 

I foresee a death, obviously. I'm thinking Rosita and Glenn. I hope I'm wrong. :(

I am surprised that Negan's group never found Alexandria before CDB showed up.

I was thinking about that, too, and the only thing I can think of is that the AZS was so puny and insufficient that they didn't even bother trying. They would've wiped themselves out from pure stupidity and didn't even have that much supplies, so it wouldn't have been worth the efforts (had they known and scouted out the place).

[AndySmith]

Maybe if they didn't waste so much friggin time on moralizing, we could have discussions on what the group actually thinks about the present situation rather than their philosophy about it.

 

Yes but all that "philosophy" is is just a smokescreen to make this show seem deeper than it is...or attempting to be. Just like wordless musical montages are supposed to make us go "Ooooh, this is art..."

 

I foresee a death, obviously. I'm thinking Rosita and Glenn. I hope I'm wrong. :(

 

My picks would be Rosita or Abraham.

[Nashville]

As someone stated up-thread, there is a reason they showed us Maggie's bruises. Kidney issues can be very painful as well, and it could be a misdirect.

 

Keeping in mind that in TWDTime Maggie and Carol tried out their new recipe for Savior Flambé yesterday, My first two thoughts were:

1. Miscarriage - but quickly discounted, because the location of Maggie's bruises (lower right quadrant) point out a much more likely cause:
2. Appendicitis.

 

 

I am surprised that Negan's group never found Alexandria before CDB showed up.

 

Not real surprising:

1. It was kind of glossed over, but I'm pretty certain on their initial trip to Hilltop Jesus told them their destination was over 50 miles away to the west, and the drive would take over an hour.
2. It's pretty apparent now the Savior camp CDB took out was little more than an outpost - which means it was probably on the edge of Savior territory - which in turn means the main Savior compound, wherever it is, is even further west.  And didn't the Hilltopper guiding them to the Savior exchange point say it was going to be about a two-hour drive?  Which, if the drive is similar to the drive to Hilltop, would put the main body of Saviors at over a hundred miles away.

 

So - picturing Savior scouting/raiding parties radiating out from their central camp - what are the odds they're going to run across a 13-house subdivision in a cul-de-sac a hundred-plus miles away?  Especially when they previously had no reason to suspect its existence?

 

It would be a whole lot more likely the Saviors would run across one of the ASZ's scouting/foraging parties before finding the ASZ proper - but even then:

1. Such encounters would be likely only if the scouts happened to be foraging to the west, toward Savior country.
2. The ASZ never had more than 3-4 groups who ever went outside the Wall: Aaron (solo or with 1-2 others), Heath's group, Aiden's group, and possibly (I think Aiden may have mentioned it in passing to Glenn when prepping for their very first run together) one other pre-CDB group which had achieved conversion to walker shit.
3. Of those groups, there's no indication anybody besides Aaron and (very recently) Heath's group had ever ventured far from the ASZ's immediate vicinity.  Aiden's group had very recently gotten shredded very close to home, else Aiden and Nick wouldn't have succeeded in capturing one of the assailing walkers within a short walk from the ASZ.  If I recall correctly, either Aaron or Heath said the scouts had only recently started extending the range of their hunts because they had exhausted all their nearby supply sources.
4. No real word on which direction Heath's group was foraging - but Aaron was foraging to the southeast, along the route where CDB came up from Hotlanta.  This was also Wolf country (remember WOLVES NOT FA{I}R), which means Aaron's initial followup trip(s) with Daryl were in the same SE direction - away from the Saviors.

 

Since CDB's arrival and virtual takeover of the ASZ, activity outside the Wall has (relatively speaking) exploded, and with it increased exposure to encounters with other groups; in that context, Daryl/Sasha/Abraham's run-in with the Saviors isn't necessarily all that surprising.  Even under these circumstances, however, CDB/Savior interaction was limited to this one instance - and thanks to CDB's scorched-earth response to the Savior threat, the Saviors had no clue whatsoever about the identity or home location of whoever had so effectively evaporated their crew. 

Given such circumstances, I think it's safe to say the ASZ could have stayed off the Saviors' radar for years - had Old Greg's machinations not resulted in CDB going head-to-head with them.

Think that's an accident?

Actually, though, it may be a blessing in disguise. 

Given the Saviors' current strength and resource levels, how strong might they be in another year, or two, or five?  Keep in mind all the weapons CDB found at the Savior outpost , then consider how big of an armory that was for just an outpost.  I'm suspecting the Saviors' resource pockets may be very deep in terms of both manpower and firepower, and getting deeper with every tax and tribute - in which case, sooner may be better than later. 

Assuming it's not already too late, of course.

[Persnickety1]

Well, besides the last 30 seconds, this episode was pretty much a bust for me and worked better than Ambien to knock me out.

 

Is the stupid contagious in the water at Alexandria?  Why, oh why, do these resourceful warriors keep falling for ruses and stepping into traps?

 

Hell, at this rate, I'm waiting for Super Duper Tracker Darryl to carelessly step into a goddamned animal trap and be taken down by a hungry herd of walkers.  

 

And speaking of Daryl....

 

Okay, show, I'm on Shenanigans Lookout.  We played that entire fucking scene second-by-second and that shot went into Daryl's shoulder.  

 

Do not play Pop Goes the Weasel and have Rosita be the one shot.  You've committed to Daryl being shot in that scene.  

 

I find it amusing that Daryl's hair is now clean but his body still looks like it would take a fire hose to clean off the stank.  

 

I still love Carol.  I know this won't happen, but in my particular vision, she sneaks up behind Dwight and the Motley Crue and mows them all down with yet another assault rifle hidden somewhere on her body.  

 

I hope the season finale is much more action packed throughout and not just the last 30 seconds.  

 

Oh, one more thing...

 

End, could you give Carl a much-needed haircut before the shit hits the proverbial Alexandria fan?  PLEASE???

[natyxg]

I am tired of everyone running out of Alexandria. They should be focusing on building defences against the Saviors & growing food.

 

And getting more people. I feel like by now Alexandria is down to like 10 people.

[Spookycat]

Regarding the heavy-handed Garden of Eden symbolism with Richonne's apple...weirdly enough this wasn't the first meaning I interpreted. I remember reading an old Cosmo article promoting keeping an apple at your bedside as a bite apparently freshens your breath enough for early-morning shenanigans in lieu of, you know, actually getting out of bed and brushing your teeth. I actually thought it was kind of funny and sweet to harken back to the toothpaste desired and breath mints of list Rick produced for Michonne a few episodes ago.

[ShadowSixx]

And getting more people. I feel like by now Alexandria is down to like 10 people.

 

Unfortunately the two recruiters for Alexandria Aaron and Daryl are no longer recruiting people as I think Rick didn't want them to do it anymore because of what happened to Daryl and Aaron with the Wolves. So they're not recruiting anyone which they need to start doing again. Their numbers are dwindling down and only have a select few who are actually ready for combat. 

 

It's also amazing that the villains always have more people than the good guys. You look at Hilltop and ASZ and don't have a lot of people. Governor didn't have have that many as he only had Martinez, Shumpert, and Merle (temporarily) until he took Martinez's group.

 

I do also find it funny that Daryl the hunter is the hunted down by Dwight like 3x now. Especially out in open woods now, Daryl should know better. If either Rosita, Michonne, or Glenn die while around him then it just shows that Daryl is just a bad luck charm. He'll probably be keeping a journal next on all those that he cared about dying or running away Merle, Carol, Beth, and Denise.

[RustbeltWriter]

Oh, Rick. "The world is ours." Really? Have you forgotten that pride goeth before the fall and that you live comfortably because of the walls a dead man built and the happy accident of walkers being drawn to a pit? Sure, you're tough but to imagine you can do whatever you want whenever you want is a sure way to come to a grisly end.

[Enigma X]

I don't know. I see Rick's statement (The world is ours.") as a bit cocky at best, but I don't think it is the worst thing he has said and not even in this episode.

 

As for the apple scene, I did read into it way too much as Rick and Michonne being the ZA's Adam and Eve. I am not even religious. LOL!

[DearEvette]

Oh, Rick. "The world is ours." Really? Have you forgotten that pride goeth before the fall and that you live comfortably because of the walls a dead man built and the happy accident of walkers being drawn to a pit? Sure, you're tough but to imagine you can do whatever you want whenever you want is a sure way to come to a grisly end.

 

I know right?  All I could do was shake my head trying to dodge all the anvils.  But I can't get to mad at Rick in that moment.  He was feeling a moment of real contentment.  He was cuddling with bae, probably had a night of great sex, probably had the first full meal he's had in ages, was feeling confident in all of their preparations.  So I get it.  Ditto Abraham.  Same deal... he got the girl he wanted and is feeling optimistic about letting someone close.  His "I'm ready to rip the world a new asshole" sounded very much like Rick's "the world is ours".  Sigh.  Those poor suckers.