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S04.E16: Broken Hearts


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Thea gives me life. I totally relate to her.

Eta: I love Felicity but this is the second time this season she's left the team. Slow your role girl

Edited by Delphi
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That really broke my heart! I'm so glad that he fought for her and that she still stayed true to herself: "I'm already gone."

His vows were moving, but we've heard so many loving declarations from him. So, his simple "I don't want you to go" at the very end was one of the most powerful statements he's made all season.

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So Diggle and Lyla just now figured out how the Suicide Squad works?

 

Loved Quentin in this episode.  The guy faced the consequences for helping Darhk, with complete dignity and poise.  He didn't run away, he testified, and gave his badge and gun to Pike with no fighting.  Quentin was the MVP of this episode.

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That was painful. But it also felt honest and heartfelt. I'll take that over lame plot points any day. I'm okay with this type of angst. Sure, I want to smoosh them together and tell them to kiss and make up, but I can wait until that happens. And I'm firmly confident it will happen.

 

I didn't like how incompetent GA was in the first confrontation with Cupid. That was terrible. Oliver is a tactician, and that entire scene was handled poorly by a guy who should have seen every angle before he biked into the room. 

 

I still don't understand or care about the flashbacks. They are completely irrelevant for me. 

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That was actually pretty good. Only a couple of baby Anvils. I do hate that Felicity quit, I never wanted her to quit the team.

I can see the foundation for their reunion already being laid, Oliver is going to prove her wrong by trusting her instead of lying and going it alone.

The courtroom stuff was bad, flashbacks boring and good lord was Cupid's dialogue cheesy. However, I thought the Cupid/Felicity standoff was well done by both actresses. I also liked SA's acting in the wedding vow scene.

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The flashbacks were kinda the most interesting part. I think it's cause it's hard for me to buy that this will be a permanent breakup so the pretty vows and the breakup (I deserved in 415) aren't doing much for me. 

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That was actually pretty good. Only a couple of baby Anvils. I do hate that Felicity quit, I never wanted her to quit the team.

I can see the foundation for their reunion already being laid, Oliver is going to prove her wrong by trusting her instead of lying and going it alone.

The courtroom stuff was bad, flashbacks boring and good lord was Cupid's dialogue cheesy. However, I thought the Cupid/Felicity standoff was well done by both actresses. I also liked SA's acting in the wedding vow scene.

I HATE she Quit the team. Maybe she feels like nobody is on her side. What Diggle said was awful FUCK YOU MG and what else pisses me off? Having to hear "That Bitch she's a Quitter" I'm so Goddamn tired of this Lie from Oliver being treated with Kid gloves by everyone but Felicity who has every right to be pissed at him Edited by jay741982
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That really broke my heart! I'm so glad that he fought for her and that she still stayed true to herself: "I'm already gone."

 

I disagree with you a little bit here - I think that permanently leaving the team and the mission that she has repeatedly said made her more than she thought she could be and gave her life purpose because of a breakup is really OOC. I know that she won't be gone forever, but she intended to be. Doesn't ring true for me. 

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Before I creep away to cry my eyes out, I just want to call out KC's horrible acting choices, especially when the judge is building toward her decision and credits QL's self-incriminating testimony as the deciding factor to deny bail. LL grinned as she heard that she failed as a lawyer to do her job so it was her father's sacrifice that swayed the judge. Good riddance!

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Oliver's vows were perfect and the way he got emotional when he said he probably doesn't deserve her BROKE ME. I like pain.

 

I wasn't a fan of Felicity's snark or digs at Oliver or their relationship. I know that's an unpopular opinion here but I think she can be cruel sometimes. It just felt too much. Once or twice is fine but no more.

 

I also HATE that she left the team, even though it'll probably only work out as being gone for one, maybe two episodes. I just could do without her being accused of being a quitter. But I mostly hate it because it doesn't feel like the Felicity we saw in 401 who wanted to be on the team. I'm confused.

 

All of the Olicity scenes were really good angst. The kind of angst we deserved with their break-up scene. SA and EBR continue to be awesome together, no matter what. Damn them.

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So, did Oliver shoot Cupid dead ? I wasn't sure because they showed that clip on the monitor in the Arrow Lair where she was up and walking with police but that may have been old footage.

And Oliver, even if you are getting fake married, shave FFS !!

I was just surprised that the Damian Darkh in the jail cell wasn't a hologram or something magical.

Even though Felicity is taking her ball and going home, you know it won't last.

I also find it hard to believe that wasn't dead with a crushed rib cage from getting knocked off that car roof. I also found it hard to believe that Speedy had such a hard time taking down Cupid, even with Spartan's help -- Cupid hasn't been trained by the League of Assassins.

Did they ever find out how Cupid got out of Argus' custody ? And is Cupid really worthy of changing the arrow in the intro screen ? Was this a lost Valentine's Day episode just played out of sequence ? </sarcasm>

Edited by ottoDbusdriver
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I'm not sure why Laurel, the lawyer with a law degree, had to be told to use Felicity, Thea and Diggle as witnesses. Why wasn't that considered in the first place? FAIL. Come on, give her something FFS.

 

Glad she got a win in the end though.

Edited by Angel12d
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Oliver's vows were perfect and the way he got emotional when he said he probably doesn't deserve her BROKE ME. I like pain.

 

I wasn't a fan of Felicity's snark or digs at Oliver or their relationship. I know that's an unpopular opinion here but I think she can be cruel sometimes. It just felt too much. Once or twice is fine but no more.

 

I also HATE that she left the team, even though it'll probably only work out as being gone for one, maybe two episodes. I just could do without her being accused of being a quitter. But I mostly hate it because it doesn't feel like the Felicity we saw in 401 who wanted to be on the team. I'm confused.

 

All of the Olicity scenes were really good angst. The kind of angst we deserved with their break-up scene. SA and EBR continue to be awesome together, no matter what. Damn them.

Like Oliver was Cruel to her Not trusting her with Something Piece of Shit Malcolm knew?

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Damn. That episode broke me, but I loved it. I'm really, really glad that the writers aren't sweeping Oliver's lies under the carpet and they apparently intend to deal with his compulsive need to deal with things on his own without including the people he loves. But Jesus, all the Olicity stuff tonight hit me where it hurts. That was some good angst, and I'm not mad, Arrow writers. I mean, I'm still pissed about BMD, but the fall out is good stuff.

 

And damn SA's stupid face! I don't cry ever and he honestly made me tear up with his vows. And then he killed me over and over again with his stupid puppy dog face and heart eyes.

 

Also, when they implanted that chip in Felicity's spine, they must have also implanted a steel rod. Because my girl has so much resolve and isn't going to let love and feelings cloud her judgment. As painful as their estrangement is, I love that she's sticking to her guns and is smart enough to know that Oliver saying he'll change is a load of bullshit. I don't know how they're going to fix this, but I love that Felicity's dignity and backbone are firmly in tact.

 

Also, I was really glad to see Laurel finally get a win in the courtroom tonight.

She is so fucking dead!

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Did they ever find out how Cupid got out of Argus' custody ? And is Cupid really worthy of changing the arrow in the intro screen ? Was this a lost Valentine's Day episode just played out of sequence ? </sarcasm>

Cupid was in the Suicide Squad, they carry out missions in order to get out of prison.  She had carried out enough.

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I'm not sure why Laurel, the lawyer with a law degree, had to be told to use Felicity, Thea and Diggle as witnesses. Why wasn't that considered in the first place? FAIL. Come on, give her something FFS.

 

I loved her that she started that particular conversation with "This trial is going horrible. They need something called evidence." Jeez

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That was the kind of angst I wanted. The last olicity scene made up for the underwhelming break up in 4. 15 imo. The vows were more than I expected, I really loved it and Stephen's acting was great.

I think he'll probably be put in a situation where he could lie again or exclude her but will chose not to and prove she can trust him.

Not a fan of her leaving the team but I think its supposed to be Felicity giving up something she loves because she's so hurt and its supposed to be a wrong choice for her. I doubt it will last more than one or two episodes so its not that bad imo especially if she does get a goal of her own outside the team to work on.

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Going into this episode I didn't want Felicity to quit the team, but about half-way through I was ready for her to flip them all the bird and peace out. They were awful to her, especially Digg with all that, "she'll come around" crap.

[Edited by mod because how part of the fandom might hypothetically react to a plot point is fan talk.]

I'm glad she broke it off for good, but I was a little confused with her speech at the end. I was with her until she started talking about how the vigilante stuff factored in. Was she saying that him being the Arrow meant he'd always "go it alone" and that's why they couldn't be together? Cause that feels like it came out of nowhere and also makes no sense. Him lying had nothing to do with Arrow stuff.

Edited by MuuMuuChainsmoker
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Sorry, the more I think about it, the more OOC it feels for Felicity to leave the team. Unless that's the point? That she's so heartbroken she's removing herself from something she loves?

 

But it just doesn't add up with the Felicity who continued to help the team while on their road trip of love because she loved it so much and it gave her purpose. 

 

Nope. I DON'T WIKE IT. 

Edited by Angel12d
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Going into this episode I didn't want Felicity to quit the team, but about half-way through I was ready for her to flip them all the bird and peace out. They were awful to her, especially Digg with all that, "she'll come around" crap.

And all the people who are going to call her a quitter, just would've found some other negative name to call her if she'd stuck around.

[Edited by mod because how part of the fandom might hypothetically react to a plot point is fan talk.] There was no way she could win in this break-up which is awful and terrible, because she is 100% in the right to break up with him. 

 

She needs to sit Diggle down to tell him the exact reason her and Oliver are broken up, so he hears more than just Oliver's side. Maybe then he will actually be on her side. 

Edited by MuuMuuChainsmoker
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I thought I was ready for the angst, but I was not. Everything hurts. SA and EBR really knocked it out of the park with their scenes. I'm glad we got insight into Felicity's feelings, but it would have been nice to have *anyone* actually try and talk to her. Not even one Delicity scene? Especially since she's the one who seems like she'll need the most development to come around to the idea all is not lost. Still, I'm looking forward to seeing how these two find their way back to each other. 

 

I too don't like that Felicity quit the team from a character perspective, but I do like that Oliver is losing her in every way. He needs to feel the consequences of his actions. I hope we'll see that Felicity didn't quit super-heroing altogether and that she's still helping people somehow.

 

I didn't think it could get more boring than the flashbacks, but the courtroom scenes really gave them a run for their money. 

Edited by Coop33
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I love that Felicity left.

Because now I feel like this interminable narrative is giving me something I can work with. There has to be change *in Oliver* -- and his mere promises that he'll never lie again aren't enough -- and there had to be a big character beat to jumpstart his brain into realizing he needs to CHOOSE not to be alone. And this is it. This is the last thing that needed to happen so that Oliver can become a real boy.

I still hate that she quit the team but, I completely agree, Oliver was just saying the words but Felicity was right he'd reset to default "alone" mode the minute shit got hard and apologize and then expect to be taken back again.

In a way it's not that different from Ollie/Laurel, except instead of cheating it's his "I'm the only that can do it and I have to do it alone" mode

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Cupid was in the Suicide Squad, they carry out missions in order to get out of prison.  She had carried out enough.

Thanks @JediKnight -- I must have missed it. But wouldn't Argus put some conditions on their release, that say maybe they don't go back to killing people.

I was kind of hoping that since Cupid was killing off celebrity couples that she might take out Kim and Kanye, but they're already married (since, per Harry in last night's Flash episode, Kim and Kanye unfortunately exist in the DCU).

Edited by ottoDbusdriver
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I too don't like that Felicity quit the team from a character perspective, but I do like that Oliver is losing her in every way. He needs to feel the consequences of his actions. I hope we'll see that Felicity didn't quit super-heroing all together and that she's still helping people somehow.

This. I don't really find it OOC that she left the team when she feels like she needs to be physically away from Oliver to get over him, but more importantly, I'm 100% willing to have Felicity "lose" this breakup and leave a mission that she invested so much into if it means actual narrative movement and character development *for Oliver*.

 

There's nothing for Felicity to learn here. She did nothing wrong. So if her leaving is less about her story and more about this stupidass storyline from hell to finally get to the third act and give me character development for Oliver? I'm in.

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Ugh...the way is now clear for Loliver isn't it?

 

I'm not sure why Laurel, the lawyer with a law degree, had to be told to use Felicity, Thea and Diggle as witnesses. Why wasn't that considered in the first place? FAIL. Come on, give her something FFS.

Serously how did she forget about that time that Darkh strolled into Oliver's campaign party with armed Ghosts, announced he killed the guards outside, and then proceeded to throw Oliver through a window and kidnap Oliver's loved ones at gunpoint all in front of A SHIT LOAD OF WITNESSES.   She really had to be reminded of that by someone else?

 

And my how convenient that every single one was too scared to testify...including the Navy Seals that Diggle hired for security (only the couple outside were killed, there still some inside the party that were unharmed), Felicity's mother Donna,  Curtis Holt and his husband, Alex and any other campaign staffers who continued to work with Oliver even after they knew Darkh was his enemy thus potentially putting them in his line of fire etc.   Really SHOW?

 

Okay at first I was raging against Felicity for suggesting that Oliver's fake wedding plan was his dumbest plan ever....because hello Season 3?   But then we got to see the execution of his plan...  

- Thea was seemingly in position in a building on the other side of town for as long as it took her to get there to help. 

- Diggle was outside in a van watching security cameras (because of course Cupid would obviously walk thru the hallways filled with paparazzi.) instead of standing by Oliver's side as the best man with hist hand on an loaded gun in his jacket pocket.  Heck even after Cupid showed up he still stayed in the van for god only knows what reason for the longest time. 

- The minister was an actual minister and not an undercover police officer...in fact there was no hidden police protection.  

- Neither Oliver or Felicity had any kind of weapon on them.  

- At least Oliver was smart enough to wear an armored vest....good thing Cupid did not shoot him in the head, or shoot the minister, or ever shoot Felicity who obviously was not wearing any armor under that dress.

 

Seriously...that really was potentially a strong contender for his worst plan ever.   Now I almost can't help but wonder if his actual plan was to just trick Felicity into actually marrying him with the real minister and then maybe once they were married she would not want a divorce?  The whole stopping Cupid thing was just an afterthought...

 

Past Oliver had a real moment of brilliance with "Now that you found what you were looking for you don't need us".  Umm....Hi Oliver?  Do you not remember this guy is planning on killing the people he no longer needs?  I mean even the henchman you killed told you so.  So what exactly did you think was going to happen he was just going to be like "okay sure bye I'm not going to kill you so go enjoy the rest of your lives"?

Edited by Xenith22
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I love that Felicity left.

 

I do too. And I don't give a damn about the opinion of anyone who calls her a quitter for it. [Edited by mod.]

Edited by MuuMuuChainsmoker
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Also Oliver, you can say whatever and how many words you want, but if you fail to follow through on them with actions? Your words are meaningless. So you can say you trust her and there are no more lies, but now you need to prove that. I really hope the show goes forward with Oliver actually trying to woo Felicity back and being 100% truthful with her. 

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I do too. And I don't give a damn about the opinion of anyone who calls her a quitter for it. [Edited by mod.]

 

[Edited by mod.]  I bet this storyline gets solved in the next couple of episodes, that have already been shot and edited weeks ago.

 

I really hope the show goes forward with Oliver actually trying to woo Felicity back and being 100% truthful with her.

I'm seriously hoping for some sort of ridiculous grand gesture. I just don't know what exactly.

Edited by MuuMuuChainsmoker
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Son of a motherfucker. I loved that episode. This is what we want folks all day ERR day. Stephen Amell SOOO good. EBR soon good. Sigh. Can I hope a hard corner has been turned? 

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 That shop should be out of business if that's how they store wedding dresses. There was zero organization to it and things were just randomly placed throughout the shop. You would never be able to find anything! 

My brother said, "I can see their budget on this episode is really low. They got 40-50 wedding dresses and kept moving them around. He was sure he saw some of the same dresses in different poses by the actors. " Then quickly added, "But what do I know, I'm a guy." I had to laugh. 

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I also didn't like how Diggle said that Felicity will come around. She shouldn't have to come around. Oliver needs to work for it. I mean, yes his vows were beautiful and I believe he is 1000000% in love with her always but he needs to be active about things now. He needs to let her in. That's what she wants. Felicity has a point when she doesn't know if Oliver will just default back to lying when things get tough. So obviously that's how they'll find their way back together. By proving her wrong. I'm EXCITE.

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I thought it was good.  Though I wasn't a fan of Felicity's snark either or her decision to leave the team.

 

Question...Arrow has always been bad when it comes to the law.  And economics.  Anyway, is it safe to say that Laurel couldn't use a witness who was a) her father and b) gave testimony that Dhark had threatened her?  It's a clear conflict of interest.  Not that that has ever stopped Arrow before.  Like when they had Laurel prosecuting Moira.

 

Thea reading celebrity gossip amused me.


Lyla released her. 

 

That was inexplicably dumb of Lyla given Cupid's track record.

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