S07.E17: Shoot

[photo fox]

What in the sweet fuck did I just watch??!?

 

I'll have some actual thoughts once my blinding rage fades and I stop vomiting from watching JDM and JM mouth-breathe each other's air.  Not. Sexy.  Ew...

[MissLucas]

Great: Alicia being a tough lawyer and going for the jugular for her daughter - so much better than 'deer in the headlights' Alicia. The judge's ruling against sleazeball gun lady. Alicia finally saying the words 'I'm married.' The new wig.

 

Not great: Cary being handed the idiot ball in the courtroom and then being lied to by Alicia. The show still trying to sell me Alicia and Lucca as BFF - nope, not buying it. Lucca getting that office and smirking about the associates. The governor's wife out and about with a man she's not married to and pictures of them snuggling up to each other not immediately popping up on all social media. Is this an alternative universe?

Edited March 21, 2016 by MissLucas

[Ms Blue Jay]

I don't think Alicia and Jason are supposed to be a romantic love story.  I fully expect Peter and Jason to get blindsided by Alicia in a variation of "I chose me.  I would chose Will, but he's dead."

 

LOL, this is so funny and on-point.

[preeya]

What would have happened had one of Alicia's clients/supporters walked up to the table, said hi, and stuck out their hand for a greeting handshake?  Eww.

 

In one of the most ignominious scenes from Grey's Anatomy, he had what's commonly known as Dead Denny Sex with Izzy Stephens.  It was Katherine Heigl's jump the shark moment for the series.

 

Regarding the bathroom plot device, wouldn't that vent work both ways, such as possibly hearing a toilet flush, or maybe the cleaning woman singing as she worked?

Ahh yes, Denny Duquette. Dead sex with Izzy.

[KaveDweller]

As for Alicia, I cannot believe she can so easily turn on Cary. Cary, who started a law firm with her and Cary who had her back over and over all because Diane got Luca an office. Does she not think she owes Cary anything? Does their history not matter at all to her?

 

I guess they all feel like they are in the right. Cary and David Lee think Diane was plotting against them when she wasn't, and Diane thinks they were plotting against her when they weren't. It's kind of sad.

 

To me, the most interesting thing in this grand jury stuff is that Alicia waived her spousal privilege in front of the grand jury thinking she (and Eli) knew what was really going on with the investigation and the grand jurors.  This means if she's called back for further testimony for something that she doesn't want to discuss, she's a bit stuck now as once waived, she can't now just claim spousal privilege for questions. 

 

Is that really how it works? If you start answering questions you can't claim spousal privilege later? I had assumed she could start answering questions and then claim spousal privilege if she thought anything got damaging to Peter.

 

But Alicia was totally lying in court when she said the donor had a bad memory, right? And they are breaking the law by having Eli listen in through the vent? I for one believe the donor guy and that Peter did what they are claiming. As much as I love Eli, I kind of don't want to see them win this one.

[schroeder]

Add me to the list of formerly serious fans who is terribly disappointed by how the show appears to be winding up the story.  I do blame the problems that I'm seeing on the fact that the writers are relying so heavily on the new characters of Jason and Lucca.

 

Agreed. There was a moment where they were all in the office together and I realized that two new characters were taking away air time from established characters. What was the point of introducing these two and making the three together seem like they were best buddies out to fight the world together?

 

I had hope this Jason thing would end but I'm concerned they don't have enough episodes to end this relationship without leaving the question of who Alicia will choose dangling. I think Peter is on the way out and as their bookend to their series, they will make Alicia leave him. And then they'll pair her in an uncommitted relationship with Jason and try to sell it as, "She is no longer the good wife. She is living life on her own terms."

 

I'm disappointed at how low this show has fallen.

[MissLucas]

I used to think Alicia doing a 'I chose me' would be a cool ending but now it looks more and more like it will veer into this show's version of girlpower by Alicia joining forces with Diane, Lucca and Monica (?). Thanks no. I'd rather see her opening a cupcake shop with Jackie and Veronica.

 

Is that really how it works? If you start answering questions you can't claim spousal privilege later? I had assumed she could start answering questions and then claim spousal privilege if she thought anything got damaging to Peter.

 

But Alicia was totally lying in court when she said the donor had a bad memory, right? And they are breaking the law by having Eli listen in through the vent? I for one believe the donor guy and that Peter did what they are claiming. As much as I love Eli, I kind of don't want to see them win this one.

I thought AUSA Glee's baffled reaction to Alicia answering the first question implied that once she started answering she could no longer claim spousal privilege. But I have no idea if this how it works in the real world.

 

And I think they claimed that Eli is not doing anything illegal since he's not a lawyer. Alicia or Mr Get-a-Dogsitter would get into trouble but not Eli. Again no idea if that would uphold in the real world.

Edited March 22, 2016 by MissLucas

[pennben]

Is that really how it works? If you start answering questions you can't claim spousal privilege later? I had assumed she could start answering questions and then claim spousal privilege if she thought anything got damaging to Peter.

 

Now, my answer is from ages ago and a former life, so take it as worth the piece of paper I'm not writing this on, but essentially you can't pick and choose when to invoke the privilege....oh, that helps, I will waive my right not to testify against my spouse to say that, oh, that hurts him, I'll invoke my privilege on that point.  Of course someone who did that would have a credibility issue regardless.  This hasn't come up yet, but there are two parts to the privilege: (a) the right not to testify against your spouse and (b) the right of each spouse to have confidential marriage communications kept confidential.  I'm curious if we get to the latter point in the grand jury plot line.  That latter point would say that Peter keeps the right to keep anything he told Alicia in confidence (i.e. "I rigged an election") during the marriage out of testimony, even if she decided to waive her right not to testify. I don't know how that can be enforced here when his lawyer is not inside if Alicia decides to spill regardless. 

 

One of the final plot points of Another Ham Sandwich, when Scott Carr was trying to get an indictment of Will, was if she actually succeeded, the grand jury transcripts would be made public, they would only remain sealed in the grand jury didn't indict.  That was important there because Alicia in that early grand jury testified that she had had an affair with Will that would have been embarrassing to be in public (and she was worried because her kids didn't know).  I wonder if we're headed to something like that here ultimately if there is an indictment....bad things will come out regardless of whether some of the testimony could be used in an actual trial.

Edited March 22, 2016 by pennben

[Pixie Chicken]

My problem was that Alicia complained that the plagiarism charge would not have stuck if Grace had put the Sermon on the Mount phrase in quotes. I probably would have presented that as an reason for it being plagiarism, but more importantly would have stated that since there was no presumption that the readers were familiar with the source, it had to be referenced--which was not mentioned in the episode.

Shapeshifter, yes, thank you! Former English teacher here, and when Alicia was yelling that the flagged passages were from the Sermon on the Mount, I was so confused. That's not a defense, and it's not like she just used a cliché phrase like Jason mentioned. Grace used a passage from another work without crediting the source -- that's the definition of plagiarism.

Every time I failed a kid for sloppy work like that, parents would get up in arms at the mention of plagiarism. It's not just printing entire essays from the Internet, folks. But Grace's mom is a lawyer, so... yay?

Edited March 22, 2016 by Pixie Chicken

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I admit, and I did feel bad about this for a second, but I laughed out loud at the random "everybody hurts" song lyric the second Alicia saw Smirky kiss blond girl. It was just so dramatic and ridiculous. Like, truly this moment if the truest tragedy of Alicia's life.

I heard the song playing in the background while Alicia was talking to Diane about not drinking as much and my first thought is "What kind of restaurant would DIANE FREAKING LOCKHART frequent that plays REM covers?" Then it all became clear when Alicia spotted Jason across the room and I just rolled my eyes. I'm sure the writers thought that this would have the same kind of emotional impact as when Angela Chase spotted her dad talking to another woman in the darkened streets of her neighborhood, but no.

 

The show COULD do an "I choose me" plot for Alicia, but I don't see it.

Sad to say that after all these years, Alicia is nowhere as good as Kelly Taylor (and that's saying something because Kelly Taylor was...not that great, but she still chose herself at one point - for the sake of argument we will conveniently disregard when she joined a cult and became addicted to cocaine).

 

To me, the most interesting thing in this grand jury stuff is that Alicia waived her spousal privilege in front of the grand jury thinking she (and Eli) knew what was really going on with the investigation and the grand jurors.  This means if she's called back for further testimony for something that she doesn't want to discuss, she's a bit stuck now as once waived, she can't now just claim spousal privilege for questions.

As soon as she waived her spousal privilege, I was sure it was going to come back and bite her in the ass. Now I hope that Mr. Schue asks her about banging Jason. I know he will have to phrase it in a way that involves Peter, but still. Maybe "Does your husband know that you are giving handies to your private investigator in public?"

Edited March 22, 2016 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Tetraneutron]

In the courtroom scene, AUSA Glee specifically said that Alicia can't claim spousal privilege if she answers the questions now. I have no idea what the law is in the real world, but in this one, she's stuck answering questions. 

 

And we have no idea if Alicia is lying about whether Garber is lying, because (even though the incident happened during the show's timespan, in season 2) we've never seen any of this. We don't know who Garber is. We don't know anything about him or what Alicia thinks about him. And AUSA Glee was asking about their social relationship? How valuable is the wife's testimony about her husband's work? What's the point of teasing this plot all season, bringing the FBI and the NSA and judges and Ruth and Marisa and basically everyone short of the Pope into this, and then have if be about a scandal that has no connection to anything we've ever seen onscreen? That's why I assume none of this will matter and the real bad thing Peter did will be something else entirely. Otherwise why should the audience care? We've SEEN Peter do shady shit for 7 seasons and the thing that gets him is something we don't even know about?

[Frozendiva]

I don't think many departments at the university where I work use plagiarism software for an admissions essay/statement of interest of why a prospective student wants to take X degree/program. Maybe it's different in a US university/college. Any signs of plagiarism would need to be pretty obvious. If a department gets 200 plus applications, there really isn't the time or the manpower to check out each essay, especially for applicants who do not complete the application. The Admissions Committee may notice oddities, that would be checked out. We have no idea if the applicant actually wrote the essay, or had several friends/coworkers/others read it and give their input or if others edited the essay before it was uploaded. Plagiarism is usually caught once they are admitted, as old habits die hard. Plagiarism detecting software is not perfect.

[candall]

 

(The show COULD do an "I choose me" plot for Alicia, but I don't see it. What kind of TV show doesn't end with the heroine happily in love?)

 

The kind of show that unwisely hobbled itself for the duration by identifying its main character as a "wife" in the title. 

[KaveDweller]

Shapeshifter, yes, thank you! Former English teacher here, and when Alicia was yelling that the flagged passages were from the Sermon on the Mount, I was so confused. That's not a defense, and it's not like she just used a cliché phrase like Jason mentioned. Grace used a passage from another work without crediting the source -- that's the definition of plagiarism.

 

I couldn't tell if Alicia was saying the program didn't notice that the selected passage was in quotes or Grace actually didn't use quotes. If she didn't use quotes she shouldn't get into college not for plagiarism, but because she doesn't know how to properly use quotation marks. That's like a middle school skill, maybe 9th grade.

 

As soon as she waived her spousal privilege, I was sure it was going to come back and bite her in the ass. Now I hope that Mr. Schue asks her about banging Jason.

 

While that would be embarrassing, her banging Jason is not illegal. I don't see it really hurting Alicia if it comes out.

[AudienceofOne]

but I laughed out loud at the random "everybody hurts" song lyric the second Alicia saw Smirky kiss blond girl. It was just so dramatic and ridiculous.

 

 

Press Pause. Jump on Previously TV to write "EVERYBODY HURTS" in forum comment.

 

LMAO.

 

That's the kind of stuff you get on low-budget Syfy channel shows when they're trying to shoot for an 'emotional moment'. I have never seen the production of this show be so juvenile. Usually its use of music is just perfect.

 

I think this episode is trying tell us that Alicia and Jason are just banging. And I'm cool with that because I didn't think there was anything else to it. If they do change their minds and decide to try to sell us on this being a love affair, I'll have a real problem. I've seen this character in love - this isn't it.

[albaniantv]

Missing Kalinda, but Liking Lucca

 

I do like Lucca, but now that the series is ending, it's so difficult taking any of the new characters seriously.

 

It's awkward how awkward Diane and Alicia are just having a conversation let alone a negotiation about what comes next. And their husbands seem to disappear regularly, never to be considered in any important conversation. 

 

Similarly, how can Alicia treat Carey with such disdain and indifference  after they have gone the distance?  

 

Makes no sense.

 

No one ever mentions Kalinda or Will or anyone else who died or was banished.

 

Now that I have seen how they are treating the past, all of a sudden I don't care how they treat the present. I guess the handjob with Mr. Smirk in a public restaurant more or less says it all.

 

Can't imagine how the Kings rationalize this sort of behavior from such a thoroughbred as Alicia.

 

I would rather imagine my own ending with the kids, Peter and Alicia all deciding to go their own ways, but affectionately and lovingly.

[Tara]

Why do all shows get so bad their last season?

At least Josh Charles saved himself the indignity.

Zero chemistry betweem Alicia and Jason. Forced, awkward-looking sex scenes....really?

Have they already gotten rid of the writers? And what's with the all-female firm bullshit? Why would a law firm deliberatley turn into something that many people would not do business with on principle? Not to mention be sued for inequal hiring practices.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Tara

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I don't think many departments at the university where I work use plagiarism software for an admissions essay/statement of interest of why a prospective student wants to take X degree/program. Maybe it's different in a US university/college. Any signs of plagiarism would need to be pretty obvious. If a department gets 200 plus applications, there really isn't the time or the manpower to check out each essay, especially for applicants who do not complete the application. The Admissions Committee may notice oddities, that would be checked out. We have no idea if the applicant actually wrote the essay, or had several friends/coworkers/others read it and give their input or if others edited the essay before it was uploaded. Plagiarism is usually caught once they are admitted, as old habits die hard. Plagiarism detecting software is not perfect.

At most large American universities, undergraduate admissions are done by campus admissions, not specific departments. My sister does admissions for the UC system and they don't run the essays through plagiarism software. They get thousands of applications, even at the smaller campuses. UCLA received 92,722 freshman applications (and additional 20,072 transfer applications) for fall 2015. UC Merced had the fewest with 18,860 freshman applications and 2,550 transfer applications. Imagine running over 100K entrance essays through the plagiarism software!

 

While that would be embarrassing, her banging Jason is not illegal. I don't see it really hurting Alicia if it comes out.

Wasn't she asked about her affair with Will when she was deposed a few years ago too? I can't remember why or what it had to do with anything, but if Mr. Schue is mad that his case is getting blown to pieces I can see him asking questions just to humiliate her and put her cheating out there.

Edited March 22, 2016 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Morbs]

I didn't think Jason was a cheater, maybe because I'm part of the Tinder generation, but I thought it was no big deal.  Alicia should get ghosted though, that shit hurts.

 

Nice of Alicia to help Grace since a few episodes ago she said she wasn't even sure if she liked her.  Still crazy Alicia is holding a grudge against Zack for the abortion.  I wouldn't tell her either; she'd want to start a law firm with the baby.

[dr pepper]

I wanna see a show called "Mr. Mueller: Curmudgeon at Large".

[dinkysquid]

Why do all shows get so bad their last season?

At least Josh Charles saved himself the indignity.

Zero chemistry betweem Alicia and Jason. Forced, awkward-looking sex scenes....really?

Have they already gotten rid of the writers? And what's with the all-female firm bullshit? Why would a law firm deliberatley turn into something that many people would not do business with on principle? Not to mention be sued for inequal hiring practices.

 

 

YES, YES, AND YES!!! What the hell has happened to this show?!!! It used to be so good - well acted, smartly written, interesting from-the-headlines plot lines. Now? It's turned into a muddled, soap opera-ish mess. 

 

When I first heard the show was ending, I was upset. Now?!! Good! Go. It's time. If this has what has become of it, then it's definitely time to leave. 

 

I loathe the whole Alicia/Jason sex romp. How old are these two? Yes, people are entitled to a love life, but I really don't expect an intelligent lawyer, Governor's wife, to be giving furtive hand jobs in a crowded bar, like some randy 16 year old. I was waiting for Alicia to dive under the table next!!

 

Sunday's episode was all over the map, making very little sense in the process. I have a horrible feeling it's not going to end well. I was extremely disappointed in the endings to two of my favorite shows: Mad Men and The Sopranos. It looks like I'll be adding this one to that list.

 

Hurry up, Game of Thrones!!

Edited March 22, 2016 by dinkysquid

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

The Good Wife's Got All Hands On Deck
Is there any opponent Alicia can't beat off?

[Ms Blue Jay]

I heard the song playing in the background while Alicia was talking to Diane about not drinking as much and my first thought is "What kind of restaurant would DIANE FREAKING LOCKHART frequent that plays REM covers?" 

 

It was not R.E.M.  It was a horribly shitty cover of "Everybody Hurts" by R.E.M.

 

I've always wondered this about the show's music supervisors.  Instead of playing good music, the show purposely takes classic songs and only plays horrible covers of them, usually sung by people who sound like 14 year old girls.  I get that the rights to the 'real' songs are too expensive, but goddamn, it just makes the show look stupid.  Hire cheaper new artists and give them exposure for writing ORIGINAL music, like other shows do.  That's how we all find great new artists.  

[Inquisitionist]

"That is the saddest piece of pizza I've ever seen," says Jason as he walks into Alicia's inexplicably unlocked apartment, because why on earth would the ostensible wife of a corruption-rich state's governor need to secure herself?

 

Apparently, the pizza was flown in from NY.  This is thin crust pizza in Chicago.

[Pixie Chicken]

Yes, thin pizza here is almost always square pieces, unless it's from crappy chain places (Papa John's, Domino's, Pizza Hut) and those aren't really "Chicago pizza" anyway. Second episode in a row to get that wrong, and it's totally a nitpick, but it's jarring.

I've always wondered this about the show's music supervisors. Instead of playing good music, the show purposely takes classic songs and only plays horrible covers of them, usually sung by people who sound like 14 year old girls.

Grey's Anatomy does this too... last season they used almost exclusively butchered 80s songs.

I guess we can count ourselves lucky that it's not that awful chicken song from a few seasons ago?

[wendyg]

dinkysquid: I don't expect to like the finale of this show, but I loved both the finales you mentioned. The MAD MEN ending made me laugh a lot and think that it was entirely approrpiate that Don Draper was ads all the way down. THE SOPRANOS, I thought the ending was brilliant because it left the family on the kind of knife edge they will always be living on. Loved them both.

[Noreaster]

I'd love to hear the people behind the show justifying Alicia screwing over Cary. There's no way that goes down okay with whatever "fans" remain.

I'm okay with it. All the characters have screwed each other over the seasons. This board doesn't necessarily represent the "fans" viewpoint. It's more like a hate board.

"It was intentional". That's the way Robert King alway explains all the writing mess in that show. Said that I thought the "justification" is Lucca. It's like Alicia is teaming with Diane, screwing over Cary and lying to him to give Lucca an office and a promotion. But I don't get it and I don't buy it. I don't buy that instant friendship between those two and I loathe that those writers screwed over core characters like Diane and Cary, with a 7 years long history, and their relationships with Alicia to favor two new and mostly undeveloped characters (who mostly I don't give a damn about). Everytime I saw those 3 (Jason, Alicia and Lucca) I think "that is so fake and unfounded. And underserved.". Also notice: even when other characters are plotting to screw him over, Cary has nothing to do or to say. Matt Czuchry really pissed producers off to get that treatment.

I rather see the other actors over Matt Czuchey. He's not very good and the character isn't very interesting to me.

My theory is that the team of writers has changed, and the newer writers are more comfortable with the characters they created than the original ones that came with the show. I think that also explains the show's forgetfulness - not just that Diane's husband is never mentioned, but a few episodes ago when they had Diane do a potted history of the firm she mentioned Stern (I was amazed they remembered him) but not Will, which just seemed bizarre for the characters, but par for a group of writers who want to pretend that the show as it is now is how it's always been.

Yeah, I'm with you on this. The writing feels very different this season.

[Noreaster]

Did anyone else get the sense that the scene between Alicia and Diane wasn't done with the two actresses together? I haven't gone back to look, but my first impression was you never see the two of them head on, or even in profile, in the same shot.

I guess JM and CB must hate each other, right?

[Noreaster]

Did we ever find out if Smirky was a sociopath? Isn't that still a legit question? I am certainly still asking it. I do not think Alicia is a sociopath. I do not think she is a particularly good person, but I wouldn't go so far as calling her a sociopath. Smirky? Still up for debate.

I admit, and I did feel bad about this for a second, but I laughed out loud at the random "everybody hurts" song lyric the second Alicia saw Smirky kiss blond girl. It was just so dramatic and ridiculous. Like, truly this moment if the truest tragedy of Alicia's life.

Wish we had seen more of Blair Underwood and his story. I was way more emotionally invested in the opener about his daughter than I have been in the main characters in ages.

I continue to question what the point of a Girl Power law firm is. I know they said that it was to get people to expect a kinder, gentler law firm, so they would be...underestimated? Will they work with "women issues"? What would that mean? How would that function? I do not get it!

Also, watching the courtroom scenes kind of just make me want to watch Daredevil.

Regarding the women led firm, it's about providing services with a potentially different viewpoint. In industries that are heavily male dominated, some clients may find women or minority-led firms to better serve their needs. It's not necessarily better or worse but more about fit.

What would have happened had one of Alicia's clients/supporters walked up to the table, said hi, and stuck out their hand for a greeting handshake? Eww.

In one of the most ignominious scenes from Grey's Anatomy, he had what's commonly known as Dead Denny Sex with Izzy Stephens. It was Katherine Heigl's jump the shark moment for the series.

Regarding the bathroom plot device, wouldn't that vent work both ways, such as possibly hearing a toilet flush, or maybe the cleaning woman singing as she worked?

I imagine if a person stood right next to the vent in the courtroom, he/she would also hear the activities in the bathroom.

[Noreaster]

In the courtroom scene, AUSA Glee specifically said that Alicia can't claim spousal privilege if she answers the questions now. I have no idea what the law is in the real world, but in this one, she's stuck answering questions.

And we have no idea if Alicia is lying about whether Garber is lying, because (even though the incident happened during the show's timespan, in season 2) we've never seen any of this. We don't know who Garber is. We don't know anything about him or what Alicia thinks about him. And AUSA Glee was asking about their social relationship? How valuable is the wife's testimony about her husband's work? What's the point of teasing this plot all season, bringing the FBI and the NSA and judges and Ruth and Marisa and basically everyone short of the Pope into this, and then have if be about a scandal that has no connection to anything we've ever seen onscreen? That's why I assume none of this will matter and the real bad thing Peter did will be something else entirely. Otherwise why should the audience care? We've SEEN Peter do shady shit for 7 seasons and the thing that gets him is something we don't even know about?

I think this is maybe overthinking. The show doesn't have a habit of doing everything with a purpose. Far from it. A ton of plot points over the seasons are done just for the hell of it...comic relief at times, to reflect ripped from the headline stuff, to utilize a guest star, etc. And the show has introduced a lot of different storylines just to abruptly drop them if they're not working or certain actors are no longer available. I bet the Peter scandal story is not that complicated. The show is just playing around with the idea that no one knows what's going on so they're dropping a bunch of clues, some of which are probably meaningless.

I couldn't tell if Alicia was saying the program didn't notice that the selected passage was in quotes or Grace actually didn't use quotes. If she didn't use quotes she shouldn't get into college not for plagiarism, but because she doesn't know how to properly use quotation marks. That's like a middle school skill, maybe 9th grade.

While that would be embarrassing, her banging Jason is not illegal. I don't see it really hurting Alicia if it comes out.

I think it's the former...Alicia was saying the plagiarism program didn't recognize that the selected passage was in quotes.

[Noreaster]

Press Pause. Jump on Previously TV to write "EVERYBODY HURTS" in forum comment.

LMAO.

That's the kind of stuff you get on low-budget Syfy channel shows when they're trying to shoot for an 'emotional moment'. I have never seen the production of this show be so juvenile. Usually its use of music is just perfect.

I think this episode is trying tell us that Alicia and Jason are just banging. And I'm cool with that because I didn't think there was anything else to it. If they do change their minds and decide to try to sell us on this being a love affair, I'll have a real problem. I've seen this character in love - this isn't it.

I agree with all of this. The direction choice of the "everybody hurts" music was teen soap-operaish. Just silly. I also agree that the Alicia/Jason affair is really just about sex. Hence Alicia was not terribly upset with Jason's "friend". She's having fun (and living a little too dangerously with the public sexual acts). Nothing serious which I appreciate for the character.

I didn't think Jason was a cheater, maybe because I'm part of the Tinder generation, but I thought it was no big deal. Alicia should get ghosted though, that shit hurts.

Nice of Alicia to help Grace since a few episodes ago she said she wasn't even sure if she liked her. Still crazy Alicia is holding a grudge against Zack for the abortion. I wouldn't tell her either; she'd want to start a law firm with the baby.

I think it's realistic to love family but not be sure that you like them.

It was not R.E.M. It was a horribly shitty cover of "Everybody Hurts" by R.E.M.

I've always wondered this about the show's music supervisors. Instead of playing good music, the show purposely takes classic songs and only plays horrible covers of them, usually sung by people who sound like 14 year old girls. I get that the rights to the 'real' songs are too expensive, but goddamn, it just makes the show look stupid. Hire cheaper new artists and give them exposure for writing ORIGINAL music, like other shows do. That's how we all find great new artists.

I agree with the REM cover this episode (wasn't great and cheesy to boot) but I've actually always liked the use of music on this show. The few times I've looked up the music following an episode, it seemed to me that they were using original music. Maybe that wasn't the norm?

[Noreaster]

So overall, I thought the episode was mixed. The first half was actually pretty good but then the second half was kind of crappy. The court case ended up being weak, Alicia's testimony to the grand jury was a little too pat, the happy threesome of Alicia/Jason/Lucca thing is a little forced, the Alicia and her drinking thing is a bit too simplistic....she drinks when she's unhappy and stops when she's happy?

I don't care about the end game for this show anymore. What else is there to tell? For all intents and purposes, Alicia and Peter's marriage is over. It's just a marriage in name only. Both Alicia and Peter have moved on. So whether she divorces Peter or not, who cares? I do think they're going down the route of showing that Alicia is not defined by any man. This episode was clearly showing that she's not serious about Jason. (And Jason is definitely not serious about Alicia if he was hooking up with his "friend".). Career-wise, Alicia has evolved into someone who knows to first and foremost look out for herself. I think that was clear with the show having the character lie to Cary's direct question. (The writing has really lost the subtlety of past seasons.). And I don't think this is a bad thing. Alicia is pretty much becoming like all the other strong characters on the show. I read the comments here about how some think the other characters "deserve" better and Alicia "deserves" the worst but I just don't see that. They're all ethically compromised and all backstabbers. The other characters were just like that from the beginning while Alicia evolved to that point.

[CaptainCranky]

I have to watch it out but it will end up being a gigantic waste of time. Glad the show is over.

 

How many episodes are left ?????

[Tetraneutron]

Career-wise, Alicia has evolved into someone who knows to first and foremost look out for herself. I think that was clear with the show having the character lie to Cary's direct question. (The writing has really lost the subtlety of past seasons.). And I don't think this is a bad thing. Alicia is pretty much becoming like all the other strong characters on the show. I read the comments here about how some think the other characters "deserve" better and Alicia "deserves" the worst but I just don't see that. They're all ethically compromised and all backstabbers. The other characters were just like that from the beginning while Alicia evolved to that point.

See, I'd agree with that if the current round of law firm musical chairs showed Alicia having a goal or taking initiative. We haven't seen that at all. We've seen her get pushed around. Pushed out of L/A/L, pushed into bond court, pushed back into L/A/L, pushed by Diane into joining the woman's only firm, feeling guilty when she lied to Cary, only doing it because she and Luca are besties. None of these plots involve Alicia wanting something and fighting for it. None of them involve Alicia being a boss and taking charge of her life. 

 

That's why I don't get why Alicia is allying with Diane over Cary. Not because Diane is mean and Cary is nice, not because she owes Cary anything because of their past, but why is it in Alicia's professional interest to join this clusterfuck? If the show ends with Alicia and Diane the co-name partners of Women and Women First, Attorneys At Law, how is that a happy ending? The audience imagines the same 5 people forming and breaking up partnerships unto eternity? What does that show us about Alicia? It would be one thing if she were an active participant in all this, if she enjoyed it like Diane and Cary and David Lee seem to, but she doesn't. When Luca and Jason rolled their eyes at the whole thing a few episodes ago, Alicia seemed to agree with them. 

Edited March 23, 2016 by Tetraneutron

[Noreaster]

Right now Diane is offering her a lead role, to be a fellow named partner. Cary is not offering anything. Seems kind of obvious to me why Alicia would side with Diane.

I actually wish that the Alicia character was written as a more ambitious and aggressive character. It sometimes has felt like one step forward, one step back over the seasons. Then again, I have read plenty of backlash from viewers when she does make aggressive moves like splitting off from Lockhart Gardner or running for SA. Wouldn't surprise me if the show had to soften her behavior to try and make her more likeable and appealing to the network audience. We don't really see antiheroes on network TV, I don't think. And are there really any female ones at all if we were to look at cable TV?

Edited March 23, 2016 by Noreaster

[needschocolate]

Alicia drinks water only now?  She didn't even go through withdrawals or join a 12 step program?  If having Jason around keeps me from watching Alicia drinking wine or tequila from a glass the size of a fishbowl, without ever getting even the slightest bit tipsy, I say keep Jason around.

 

However, I think it might be a good ending if Alecia had to join a 12 step program.  Of course, it could never happen - there aren't enough episodes left for when she gets to the step where she is supposed to apologize to all the people she has mistreated,
 

Could they not get Gary Cole? I was very surprised to see Diane argue a case all about guns without any mention of her pro-gun rights ballistics expert husband.

If Diane's husband was part of the episode, then Diane would have had more screen time, and we can't have that, now can we?
 

WTH was Alicia wearing on her arms in the kitchen? Were those leg warmers, or were they somehow attached to her sheer sweater?

 
 I have come to the conclusion that it was all the same dress with different shades of gray used in color-blocking.  
 

What exactly did Luca do to "earn" that office over the other associates? Nothing? Thought so.

 
I am okay with her getting an office, since they had one available and they didn't kick anyone out to put her in.  Lucca had her own firm, she is a step or two above the others in cubicles, IMO.
 

You know, Lucca did give them the option of just going home and getting a room rather than staying to help her celebrate. That display was not only juvenile and risky, it was also disrespectful to her.

 
How long do they think it takes Lucca to get some chips?  Was Lucca driving to Target to pick them up?
 

Is there any opponent Alicia can't beat off?

http://previously.tv/the-good-wife/the-good-wifes-got-all-hands-on-deck/"> Read the story

 
Heck, she even beats off her friends
 

Nice of Alicia to help Grace since a few episodes ago she said she wasn't even sure if she liked her.  Still crazy Alicia is holding a grudge against Zack for the abortion.  I wouldn't tell her either; she'd want to start a law firm with the baby.

 
Maybe Alicia was just making sure Grace got into college so she could have the apartment all to herself.

[cheyz]

Random comments.

 

The situation with the kids is actor-availability driven. Graham Phillips (Zach) goes to an out-of-state school. Makenzie Vega (Grace) goes to college in New York City.

 

Gary Cole hasn't appeared in 2016. IMDB doesn't even mention The Good Wife in his biography, doesn't seem to be very up-to-date.

 

Not all people who drink a lot are alcoholics, and not all alcoholics drink a lot. Alicia drinks wine at home because she was a political wife for 20 years. At work, she drinks whatever the person she is drinking with has. Even the tequila was a gift from Ruth, and she is still working on that bottle.

 

Diane does have several large feminist clients. Grace was able to recruit them when Diane took the pro-gun case. And she isn't looking for an all-woman firm, she stated it this episode. She wants women named partners.

 

Alicia and Peter will not be getting a divorce, because Hillary and Bill have not gotten one.

 

A longer passage doesn't need to be in quotes, it can be set off with wider margins and different spacing. And nobody said anything about whether or not Grace cited it, the program just flagged the quotation for being used.

 

As far as the bar, it is somewhere they don't usually go. That is why Diane picked it, so they wouldn't be recognized or run into other attorneys or clients. And yes, with as crowded as it was, Lucca could be waiting in line to get the chips. Or she saw them snuggling so is taking her time.

[crashdown]

The situation with the kids is actor-availability driven. Graham Phillips (Zach) goes to an out-of-state school. Makenzie Vega (Grace) goes to college in New York City.

 

 

Graham Phillips is a senior at Princeton, a 50-minute train ride to Manhattan.  He chose that schools specifically to be available for shoots.  So no, his location doesn't explain why he's been basically AWOL for the last couple of seasons.

[Noreaster]

The fact that Graham Phillips goes to school does explain why he's not on the show as much as in the earlier seasons. Besides the commute (actually quite a bit longer than 50 minutes given that the show doesn't shoot in Manhattan), the actor obviously has other commitments.

Actor availability is always a factor on this show. The absences of many characters can be explained that way.

[Noreaster]

Also, here's an interview Graham Phillips gave a few years ago on deciding to go to college.

http://www.ew.com/article/2012/01/13/good-wife-graham-phillips

[Noirprncess]

Why do all CBS owned/directed shows  get so bad their last season?

At least Josh Charles saved himself the indignity.

 

 

 

 

Fixed it for you....this now HAS to end Dexter style with Alicia going off to be a logger in the woods.  It's official.  Wait, that might actually make more sense than what's actually happening on the show.

 

The show is officially called The Marginal Wife in my house.

 

I have no idea why they want to keep pointing out that Jason and Alicia are friends with benefits.  I mean obviously she's disregarding the one thing she's asked Peter for & that's discretion with his "friends".    Perhaps they should end the show with HER getting caught with someone (or Jason) only to see if her man Peter dumps her or chooses to stand by HER.

 

I loved the Judge's decision.

[Tetraneutron]

I completely agree with your comments, cheyz. I think a lot of the complaints are overly nitpicky, and can be answered by the question "It's television". On television, things are written for dramatic effect rather than a strict adherence to reality, which would be very, very, boring. Luca wasn't there for the hand job because the script demanded Alicia and Jason be alone. Scriptwriting should not be based on timing how long it takes someone to get chips in a bar. Same with the plagiarism. The point was the company knew they had a problem with false positives and had settled out of court in the past, having to actually read Grace's admissions essay would make for a very boring show. (And, you don't need to put everything you quote in quotation marks. It's not a research paper, you can quote poetry for effect in writing as you would in speech, without providing a reference to the damn bible section where the Sermon appears). (I also think people are letting their feelings for what Julianna Margulies allegedly did to Archie Panjabi cloud their view of Alicia as a character).

 

Except for this:

 

Diane does have several large feminist clients. Grace was able to recruit them when Diane took the pro-gun case. And she isn't looking for an all-woman firm, she stated it this episode. She wants women named partners.

The female-led law firm is dumb, no matter how much the show tries to spin it. (And I think Alicia said to Luca last week that Diane wanted all female partners, not just name partners, but either way, both are stupid). No matter how much the show tries to pretend otherwise, no one will choose a law firm because it doesn't have male (named) partners. No one wants a woman lawyer over a man lawyer. And it's going to be harder to recruit lawyers at your firm because no man will want to join a firm where he'll never rise above associate. No one good, anyway. It also came out of nowhere that Diane and Cary (who were largely on the same page for the Howard thing, and the Monica thing, everything else this season) are suddenly antagonists. Cary was paranoid, but Diane deliberately said she didn't like Cary as a partner, even though they've been on the same side all season.

 

They want to write the 704th version of law firm musical chairs, that's fine, but having to act like Diane has either some noble feminist purpose, or is practicing sound business principles in starting a female-led law firm is not. It makes Diane look either extremist, or stupid, or so extremist she's stupid, and Alicia looks the same for going along with it.

[needschocolate]

Well, of course Lucca couldn't be there for the hand job.  Having her leave to do something that will take a minute is just lazy writing.  There are a lot of reasons why she could leave that would have her be gone long enough that would make a lot more sense than getting chips, which should only take a minute.

 

For example:

 

--She could have left her phone at the office.

--She could see an old friend at the bar or another table.

--She could have spilled something on her clothes and have to go to the restroom to clean up.

--She could have complained that the place was so busy that it will take forever for a waitress to get there and she was going to go order their drinks at the bar.

--She could have gone to get chips, and then have Jason mention something about her coming back, Alicia could say "have you seen the line at the bar? We have plenty of time."

 

Having her go away to do something that will only take a minute makes Alicia look like the rudest and horniest woman on the planet, so impatient to get her hands in his pants that she doesn't mind if her only female friend is sitting at the table with they finish the job.

 

The only way it isn't bad writing to have Lucca's excuse be something that would take such a short time is this one - Lucca goes to get chips, Alicia and Jason get frisky, Lucca comes back mid friskiness, Alicia and Jason react to her being back (giggling, faces turn red, etc...).

[kwnyc]

 

No one wants a woman lawyer over a man lawyer.

 

Wow! Time travel is possible...someone is posting from the 1950s!

[shapeshifter]

...And it's going to be harder to recruit lawyers at your firm because no man will want to join a firm where he'll never rise above associate. No one good, anyway...

Excellent point. Why didn't Diane think of that? Well, didn't the writers of Diane's dialogue think of that???

[Tetraneutron]

Wow! Time travel is possible...someone is posting from the 1950s!

For heaven's sake, that's clearly not what I said. No won will hire a woman lawyer BECAUSE she's a woman. No one will use gender as a factor in deciding which law firm to join.

[AudienceofOne]

For heaven's sake, that's clearly not what I said. No won will hire a woman lawyer BECAUSE she's a woman. No one will use gender as a factor in deciding which law firm to join.

Actually... people hire male lawyers for being male all the time. And there are people who will hire a female lawyer because she's a female lawyer to balance it. And there are people who prefer certain genders for things for no logical or rational reason (female doctor for example). Male lawyers may not want to work for a law firm where they won't get promoted. But that leaves 50% of the population who are stuck in firms where they're statistically less likely to make partner because they're women. And they'll want to go work for this firm.

 

I think Dianne's reasons are muddled and not well established and she'd be better off going off on her own with Alicia and *starting* a female-partner firm. But that doesn't mean it's a crazy idea in a general sense. It just doesn't make much sense in the context of the text we're working with.

[ktwo]

The whole "female firm" idea screams "discrimination lawsuit" to me. Didn't they just go through an EEOC investigation about not hiring enough African-Americans?

[pennben]

As I understand the current iteration of Diane's idea (which seems to fluctuate weekly for no good reason, other than I think the writers are pulling it out of their asses); she wants the "name" partners to be women.  That means that it is their names that make up the firm's name, not that there can't be other male partners, just that they won't be "name" partners.  Trust me when I tell you, if having name partners of only one sex constitutes discrimination, 98% of all firms in the US would be subject to discrimination suits because they only have males as name partners.

Edited March 25, 2016 by pennben

[Klapaucius]

As I understand the current iteration of Diane's idea (which seems to fluctuate weekly for no good reason, other than I think the writers are pulling out of their asses); she wants the "name" partners to be women. That means that it is their names make up the firm's name, not that there can't be other male partners, just that they won't be "name" partners. Trust me when I tell you, if having named partners of only one sex constitutes discrimination, 98% of all firms in the US would be subject to discrimination suits because they only have males as named partners.

Too bad that is just an excuse to screw Cary's character over again.