S01.E08: Night Of The Hawk

[Sakura12]

I thought it was three months?

In the promo Ray says it's been 2 years.

 

Why was Jax all mad at Leonard for getting rid of Mick. Did no one tell him that Mick wanted to kill Sara? Because last time I checked Sara was the most valuable member of their team and Mick had no problem wanting to kill her. Why would you want a person like that on your team? Leonard was getting rid of someone that didn't want to be on the team. 

Edited March 12, 2016 by Sakura12

[Chicago Redshirt]

I remember hearing 3 years, although I certainly could have gotten it wrong. The point remains -- with a time ship, why would it be necessary to strand them 3 days, even?

[Sakura12]

This isn't a show to think about the science of time travel that's probably something that can be found on a science channel. I don't care about the time travel aspects of this show. it's a fun show with time travel as a plot to get the characters into different situations and that is all.  This is not a show for everyone and that's fine. I like and enjoy this show and I'm not wasting my time thinking too hard about every single detail. This show isn't perfect and I never expected it to be. I'm watching for the experience the characters go through and how they interact with each other. 

 

I'd rather see the ramifications of being left behind in a different time for a few years and what it does to our characters. I don't care why they are left there and I hope they don't take it back. Because if Sara ever makes it back to Arrow (which seems likely no matter what the Arrow characters only people think. If someone in her family is dying she's going to be there). She will be 3 years older and technically from the future even though she lived a few years in the past. Her experiences would've changed her even more.  

[Izeinwinter]

There's also the minor matter that Ray might have decided to completely derail the timeline. I mean, the guy was a tech Tycoon in 2016, mostly off the his personal skill and knowledge. If he goes into the "invention" game in the fifties, things go off course real fast.

 

Also, if Sara goes and seeks out the league in 1958, ought Nyssa not make an appearance? She's well into her second century in the comics, at least, so she should be in that era. 

[scarynikki12]

Wasn't Jax the one to bring up incarceration last episode?  He might have thought that they could have brought Mick around (and if he were told of Mick warning Rip about that Time Master guy and saving Ray at the gulag then he'd have a point).  There's also the fact that Snart and Mick were best buddies and, if Snart is willing to off his friend and partner so easily what's to stop him from turning against the team down the line?  Now, we know that whatever Snart did was a big deal for him and that he's still reeling from it and Mick's general absence but Jax had no reason to just assume that.  He understands it now which further proves how great this show is at ensembles and mixing the character interactions.  So many other shows would have Snart's designated love interest be the one to realize what Jax did.  By having Jax, who has spent very little (if any) time with Snart, be the one then it only strengthens the team in the run up to Savage's defeat.

[nksarmi]

There's also the minor matter that Ray might have decided to completely derail the timeline. I mean, the guy was a tech Tycoon in 2016, mostly off the his personal skill and knowledge. If he goes into the "invention" game in the fifties, things go off course real fast.

 

Also, if Sara goes and seeks out the league in 1958, ought Nyssa not make an appearance? She's well into her second century in the comics, at least, so she should be in that era. 

On Arrow, when Malcolm Merlyn joined the LoA - he met Nyssa as a child.  So unless they ignore that point of canon, Nyssa has not been using the LP to extend her life like her father did.  I don't even think the math is right to meet Nyssa's mother unless her life was unnaturally extended and I don't think it was.

 

Ray could derail the timeline strictly by accident, but from the previews - it looks like he's teaching.

 

Also from the previews, Rip says they are free-falling through time in one clip so that might play into how long it takes them to pick up the trio that got left behind.

[InsertWordHere]

I believe the three months was in reference to 

when Sara decides to leave and go to the League,

not how long the three are stranded in the 1950s.

I remember hearing 3 years, although I certainly could have gotten it wrong. The point remains -- with a time ship, why would it be necessary to strand them 3 days, even?

This kind of amuses me because on Doctor Who, it's a running joke that when the Doctor tries to return a person to just minutes after they originally left their own time, he frequently overshoots, sometimes by decades or centuries.

[justjoan]

 

Stein wasn't attempting to join a country clubs while he was there either.

Setting aside the implication that that would have been the biggest danger, my point is that of the "straight, white men" the writers could have used to teach the audience its object lesson, they chose the character least likely to need said lesson himself. He would already be well aware of the issue first hand, same as Jax and Sara, particularly because the team is still working within his own lifetime. Stein was alive in 1958; his knowledge of its flaws would be experienced, not academic, like for the rest of the team. The writers were lazy, like when the Flash writers had Caitlin the scientist ask what a singularity is. She'd know, and Stein would know that 1958 wasn't actually the Hollywood fantasy.

 

Give the audience its exposition, but don't break the characters to do it.

[ramble]

I can't help liking this show, even though I find lots of it ridiculous & the main villian boring. I think it is my love for Sara & my enjoyment of Stein that help. The steady doses of Cold's sarcasm are a plus as well & Jackson is growing on me steadily. My biggest problem is Kendra. I thought it would be Ray since I find him bland & boring, but it's Hawkgirl & I desperately wanted to like Hawkgirl.

I'm trying to give the actress room to grow as an actress because I find her weak, but that's not the main issue for me. It's superficial as hell, I know, but the actress's teeth and/or jaw alignment drive me batty. I don't know if it's an overbite or a jaw issue but my eyes are drawn to it every time she's in the shot & I feel my own upper teeth jutting forward in response. I've tried not looking at the screen & just listening when she is in a scene but I still picture her jawline. I didn't realize I notice jaw alignment as much as I do & I'm not even sure why I do. It's ridiculous & silly but I can't seem to move past it. I find myself almost wishing Savage would put her out of my misery.

[Latverian Diplomat]

From the recap:

Sorry to be so picky, but I think that's Nth metal.  Something that got stuck in my head after so many comics.

 

Yes it was Nth metal in the subtitles too. IIRC, the Golden Age comics Hawkman referred to it as Ninth metal, because it was a secret metallic element known to (some) ancients but not any modern scientisits until Carter Hall. Ninth, because the ancients knew about eight more mundane metallic elements (Au, Ag, Cu, Fe, Pb, Hg, Sn, and maybe Sb (or Zn?) for the chem nerds out there).They changed it to Nth metal as some point, Personally I think it looks a bit awkward in print and is even more awkward in dialog, and I say that as someone who has used words like nth, mth and zeroth in math and computer science classes.

 

Bascially nth metal:Hawkgirl::speed force:Flash in terms of hand waving away technical issues. :-) 

Edited March 12, 2016 by Latverian Diplomat

[KirkB]

I guess maybe it's just me, but I don't get the dislike for Kendra. She's certainly not my favorite character, that would be Sara, followed by Cold and probably Stein, but I think she's doing the best she can with a fairly daunting role. Playing a 4000 year old reincarnated demigoddess (btw, where did THAT come from? I thought she was a priestess?) with wings can't be easy.

 

My biggest problem with the show is Savage. Again, due respect to CC, but I think he was badly miscast.

[jhlipton]

I'm old enough to have caught the last whiff of institutionalized racism (in the late 70s)

Institutional racism is alive and well, alas. See "All Lives Matter (ugh) or what Obama has had to deal with. In many ways it's worse because people who aren't "racist" per se still perpetuate racist behavior.

 

So, now that Sara's stuck where/when she is, do you think she's at least gonna go back and see that nurse?  I'm just saying, like, while she's there/then, she might as well take advantage of the situation.

I'd be very surprised if she didn't!

[kieyra]

I can't help liking this show, even though I find lots of it ridiculous & the main villian boring. I think it is my love for Sara & my enjoyment of Stein that help. The steady doses of Cold's sarcasm are a plus as well & Jackson is growing on me steadily. My biggest problem is Kendra. I thought it would be Ray since I find him bland & boring, but it's Hawkgirl & I desperately wanted to like Hawkgirl.

I'm trying to give the actress room to grow as an actress because I find her weak, but that's not the main issue for me. It's superficial as hell, I know, but the actress's teeth and/or jaw alignment drive me batty. I don't know if it's an overbite or a jaw issue but my eyes are drawn to it every time she's in the shot & I feel my own upper teeth jutting forward in response. I've tried not looking at the screen & just listening when she is in a scene but I still picture her jawline. I didn't realize I notice jaw alignment as much as I do & I'm not even sure why I do. It's ridiculous & silly but I can't seem to move past it. I find myself almost wishing Savage would put her out of my misery.

I'm sympathetic. I'm not nearly as cavalier about bagging on actors' physical quirks as I was when I was younger and dumber (I'm still pretty dumb), but things can be distracting. I have a similar problem with the campaign manager on Arrow--I call him Captain Bigface. I may just be mad that he's not Roy, though.

On topic, still trying with this show but it's a hot mess. They have a few quality pieces and then a whole boatload of hot mess. Agree with a couple of previous posts that the villain is terrible. Hopefully they can mix things up over the summer.

[henripootel]

Institutional racism is alive and well, alas. See "All Lives Matter (ugh) or what Obama has had to deal with. In many ways it's worse because people who aren't "racist" per se still perpetuate racist behavior.

That's de facto racism.  I mean racism as actual policy, in my case, it was court-mandated busing.  Went to high school in the south where the courts had ruled that we had de facto segregation so they ordered folks bused around to alleviate it.  Decade plus later my school district actually did it (in the early 80s).  Don't get me wrong, I know for a fact that racism is alive and well today, but once upon a time it was actual policy.  I'd like to think that this was ancient history but it wasn't actually that long ago.  

 

I'll give these guys guys credit this week - they didn't dodge this issue nor simplify it by blaming it on a 'few bad apples'.  I mean the jocks were pretty assholish but the realtor seemed more a realistic 'product of her times'.  Pretty good for a show that can't seem to realize that Ray is inconsistently smart and dumb. Not just 'well-intended' or 'naive', dumb.

Edited March 13, 2016 by henripootel

[Chicago Redshirt]

This kind of amuses me because on Doctor Who, it's a running joke that when the Doctor tries to return a person to just minutes after they originally left their own time, he frequently overshoots, sometimes by decades or centuries.

 

Doctor Who gets around this notion because for all his bravado, from what I understand, the various incarnations of the Doctor don't fully know how to work the Tardis/the Tardis has a literal mind of its own.

 

There's no reason to think that Gideon is so tempermental that she would refuse to bring the time ship to a certain point in time and space if told to.

[maczero]

I was surprised at how easily Jefferson just sidled up Betty.  I know it was supposed to be this "2016 kid is all shocked at the racism and segregation" but he at least should have been aware of it.

Jax was totally aware of the racism.  He said so before he sat next to Betty. 

 

Also, if Sara goes and seeks out the league in 1958, ought Nyssa not make an appearance? She's well into her second century in the comics, at least, so she should be in that era. 

I don't think she's that long lived in the Flarrowverse.  IIRC, Ra's was the only one using the Lazarus Pit.

[BkWurm1]

Stein was alive in 1958; his knowledge of its flaws would be experienced, not academic, like for the rest of the team. The writers were lazy, like when the Flash writers had Caitlin the scientist ask what a singularity is. She'd know, and Stein would know that 1958 wasn't actually the Hollywood fantasy.

 

I think the implication was being the privileged white man insulated him from experiencing a lot of the racism.  Being a Stein, he'd have experienced some but depending on the circles he grew up in, he might not have run into anything too overt or problematic.  Plus people have a way of glossing over the messy parts of the past.  All he was doing was looking around the town and enjoying the pretty picture it made.  Jax and Sara reminded him of the ugly underbelly.   

 

 

 

I remember hearing 3 years, although I certainly could have gotten it wrong. The point remains -- with a time ship, why would it be necessary to strand them 3 days, even?

 

Um, for REASONS!!!!  Lol. 

 

All it takes is a mention of a glitch or a short and they are accidently in the wrong time (or can't go to the right one)  I accept it as a normal time travel trope. 

 

I guess maybe it's just me, but I don't get the dislike for Kendra. She's certainly not my favorite character, that would be Sara, followed by Cold and probably Stein, but I think she's doing the best she can with a fairly daunting role. Playing a 4000 year old reincarnated demigoddess (btw, where did THAT come from? I thought she was a priestess?) with wings can't be easy.

 

My biggest problem with the show is Savage. Again, due respect to CC, but I think he was badly miscast.

I can't say I've been wowed by VS but I don't really get why so many find him miscast.  He looks that part with the hair and the crazy eyes.  He seems fine in the actions scenes - I loved when he first showed up tossing his knives - and I find him suitably menacing when needed.  He's not as overt a presence as John Barrowman (Malcolm Merlyn) or Neil McDondough (Damien Darhk) but I like him better than Matt Noble (Ra's).  He seems serviceable enough to me.  His accent is just indecipherable enough to make me believe he's been everywhere.  Sure, it would be great if he was terrifying, but I'm not sure if this show can pull that off.  (I don't think any of the Flarrowverse shows have managed terrifying except in one or two moments with Slade and even that was fleeting) 

 

Maybe it's expectations of who VS is from the comics?  I see him as menacing in the way a disturbed child might pull the legs off a daddy long legs just to see what happens.  Who I see him as was most clearly displayed in this episode.  He has a veneer of normalcy over him, a hint of how he'd been able to stay in the shadows for centuries, both that no one seemed to notice him and that he didn't seem to want that clearly on display power. 

 

I don't know, I find his performance interesting to watch.  How he's been used in the past hasn't always worked but I enjoyed him and his casserole in this episode a lot. 

[justjoan]

I get the implication; I'm saying it's a poor fit. Particularly with Ray, a thematic match so perfect he could have been designed for it, easily at hand.

[BkWurm1]

I get the implication; I'm saying it's a poor fit. Particularly with Ray, a thematic match so perfect he could have been designed for it, easily at hand.

I'm also good with the writers forgot he's supposed to be Jewish and just saw old white guy.  I know I did until after the episode. 

Edited March 13, 2016 by BkWurm1

[jhlipton]

That's de facto racism.  I mean racism as actual policy,

 

Got it. We use the same term for different things.

[maczero]

My biggest problem with Savage is that they've downgraded his power since his first appearance in the Arrow/Flash crossover.  He was a better fighter than Ollie and fast enough to tag Barry with a knife.  Now Kendra is able to land a few blows on him.

[KirkB]

Maybe it's expectations of who VS is from the comics?  I see him as menacing in the way a disturbed child might pull the legs off a daddy long legs just to see what happens.  Who I see him as was most clearly displayed in this episode.  He has a veneer of normalcy over him, a hint of how he'd been able to stay in the shadows for centuries, both that no one seemed to notice him and that he didn't seem to want that clearly on display power.

 

 

Oh, that's definitely part of the problem for me. The Vandal Savage I'm familiar with is supposed to be huge and menacing, and this guy is neither IMO. I realize this is very subjective however. I've gotten better about actors not looking how *I* think a character should look but some of that still lingers. But that's only part of the problem. They talk about him like he's the boogyman but when he shows up, he's a wiry little guy and sounds like cartoon character (again, I mean no offense to Mr. Crump, it's not his accent it's something about the pitch that gets to me).

 

On topic of the episode though, Stein may not have personally experienced much of the racism but when he was talking to Sara and Jax I thought he made it clear he was aware of it and was trying to get the point across to them. He probably saw how people who looked like Jax and Kendra were treated when he was younger even if he didn't really understand it back then. And I imagine their reasons for having Ray and Kendra be the undercover couple were multiple. The simplest being they actually are, or are trying to be, a couple, it wouldn't be as much pretend for them. Most of the characters wouldn't think twice about a white man and a black woman dating so it might not have initially dawned on them how monumentally bad an idea that was for the era they were in. And with Ray, Kendra, Stein, Sara, Rip and Snart all being busy, Jax was conveniently (and simultaneously inconveniently) the only person left to question the girl. They wouldn't have gotten any drama if it had been Ray or Snart, for example.

[tarotx]

Well, except for when Savage kills Jonas in 2166, 2015 is the oldest we have seen Savage. Often that matters in time travel stories. Kendra has some super powers and she was in "confident mode" so her fear wasn't as strong as when she's thinking about being a barista a few months ago. 

My biggest problem with Savage is that they've downgraded his power since his first appearance in the Arrow/Flash crossover.  He was a better fighter than Ollie and fast enough to tag Barry with a knife.  Now Kendra is able to land a few blows on him.

My problem with Savage is I don't feel anything for him. I'm not scared or intrigued. He's a cartoon villain who waste screen time 

Edited March 13, 2016 by tarotx

[BkWurm1]

again, I mean no offense to Mr. Crump, it's not his accent it's something about the pitch that gets to me

I've heard that mentioned a few times as well so you are not alone but even trying to listen for it, I can't seem to hear it and I swear, I have good hearing and am not tone deaf. Lol.

VS was and excellent fighter in the crossover or at least an expert with knives but it was his magical objects that made him so hard to defeat so I think perception of him as this unstoppable fighter might be greater than intended.

Interesting to remember is how VS had to stow away on the cargo ship to get in the country. I wonder if that will be remembered. What happened to all his money and henchmen? And his house in the US which her was freely able to travel to in the seventies?

I wonder if them going back to the fifties pushed him to keep his supporters close?

Edited March 13, 2016 by BkWurm1

[kieyra]

The character (actor?) of Savage is, as someone said upthread, cartoony. When I see him, I see a little guy in a cape with his hair slicked back, doing a stage magic show or running a circus. Casting problem, IMO. They needed someone with the presence of Deathstroke, or the acting chops of Tom Cavanagh, to drive the first season's sense of peril.

I know almost nothing about the comics or mythos, but hopefully he was only intended as a season-long villain.

Edited March 13, 2016 by kieyra

[spaulding]

I like when this show is full of fluffy fun.  I didn't want too much seriousness to get in the way of fun entertainment.  Meh episode.  I already forgot it.  At least Jefferson was given something to do.  Sara is always badass.

 

My biggest problem is Kendra. I thought it would be Ray since I find him bland & boring, but it's Hawkgirl & I desperately wanted to like Hawkgirl.

I'm trying to give the actress room to grow as an actress because I find her weak, but that's not the main issue for me. It's superficial as hell, I know, but the actress's teeth and/or jaw alignment drive me batty. I don't know if it's an overbite or a jaw issue but my eyes are drawn to it every time she's in the shot & I feel my own upper teeth jutting forward in response. I've tried not looking at the screen & just listening when she is in a scene but I still picture her jawline. I didn't realize I notice jaw alignment as much as I do & I'm not even sure why I do. It's ridiculous & silly but I can't seem to move past it. I find myself almost wishing Savage would put her out of my misery.

 

She's still the weakest character, and her role should have evolved beyond Savage's obsession and former barista.  I wouldn't be too sad if she was replaced. 

 

I thought that I was the only one who stared at her jaw.  When she's not speaking, she doesn't close her mouth; and it's distracting.  Maybe it's a structural issue for her.  She's still a very pretty actress.

 

That scene with Kendra + Savage = squick

 

I'm anticipating the next episode. 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

The Legends Of Tomorrow Learn That 1958 Is For The Birds
Our heroes seek their madman in the days before Mad Men.

[KirkB]

That scene with Kendra + Savage = squick

 

 

I'm fairly sure that was the point. Though he was showing some fancy fighting moves when he first showed up on Flash and Arrow, this version of Savage doesn't strike me as scary. He's more creepy. He doesn't scream world conqueror, he makes me think more stalker. Like he might hide in Kendra's closet and watch her undress.

[henripootel]

He doesn't scream world conqueror, he makes me think more stalker. Like he might hide in Kendra's closet and watch her undress.

See, that I'd at least find amusing.  For a cartoony show with an especially cartoony villain, there isn't much cartoony fun.  I actually think they're getting a bit better - the tuna casserole, some admission of the advantage time travel offers (you can go back before your target is alerted, ...), the not-so-great 1950s America.  Steps in the right direction.

 

But still the shoe-horned nonsense gets to me.  Why don't they just send everyone to ambush Savage?  Jax can really fix space engines?  Really?  You think a 1800s blacksmith could repair my iphone?  I'd have trouble with Ray trying to understand 150-years-in-the-future tech, but at least he's at the cutting edge of current tech. 

Edited March 14, 2016 by henripootel

[Starfish35]

this version of Savage doesn't strike me as scary. He's more creepy. He doesn't scream world conqueror, he makes me think more stalker. Like he might hide in Kendra's closet and watch her undress.

Exactly. Admittedly my view of Vandal Savage was formed by the Justice League/JLU and Young Justice cartoons. But CC just does not sell the character to me. Vandal Savage to me should be an imposing genius mastermind, on the level of Lex Luthor at least, and as physically threatening as Deathstroke. This guy comes across more as creepy serial killer. Which is scary in its own way I suppose, but it's not what I think of when I think Vandal Savage.

[tarotx]

I think Vandal will be someone pushed into being a world conqueror by his cult followers. He's not this powerful being but our legends kind of helped create his Legendary character. Vandal is a version of Jesus and slowly, and somewhat under the table of the world's powers, his followers built up power and more and more are inspired each time Vandal comes back and dies and/or creates some spectacle. And of course there are the Hawk feedings that give some longer life that has helped create a religion.  So that's my head canon for now. 

[ohjoy]

Exactly. Admittedly my view of Vandal Savage was formed by the Justice League/JLU and Young Justice cartoons. But CC just does not sell the character to me. Vandal Savage to me should be an imposing genius mastermind, on the level of Lex Luthor at least, and as physically threatening as Deathstroke. This guy comes across more as creepy serial killer. Which is scary in its own way I suppose, but it's not what I think of when I think Vandal Savage.

I too watched Justice League/JLU and Young Justice, and your description of what I expected of Vandal Savage is spot on. Of course, based on Justice League/JLU I expected a lot more out of Hawkgirl too, so I guess that's my fault. I just wish they had chosen a different backstory/mytharc for the show's foundation, as these two characters and their conflict on LOT are among the least interesting parts of the show for me.

 

Definitely NOT the least interesting: Leonard Snart. A welcome surprise (and I love it if Mick turned out to be Chronos).

[Starfish35]

Definitely NOT the least interesting: Leonard Snart. A welcome surprise (and I love it if Mick turned out to be Chronos).

Agreed. Leonard Snart and Mick Rory turned out to be a very welcome surprise. I was deeply skeptical when they were added to the cast, especially Mick. But they've turned out to be some of the stronger members of the cast.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Starfish35

[BkWurm1]

See, that I'd at least find amusing.  For a cartoony show with an especially cartoony villain, there isn't much cartoony fun.  I actually think they're getting a bit better - the tuna casserole, some admission of the advantage time travel offers (you can go back before your target is alerted, ...), the not-so-great 1950s America.  Steps in the right direction.

 

But still the shoe-horned nonsense gets to me.  Why don't they just send everyone to ambush Savage?  Jax can really fix space engines?  Really?  You think a 1800s blacksmith could repair my iphone?  I'd have trouble with Ray trying to understand 150-years-in-the-future tech, but at least he's at the cutting edge of current tech. 

But he has an instruction manual! Lol.

 

I too watched Justice League/JLU and Young Justice, and your description of what I expected of Vandal Savage is spot on. Of course, based on Justice League/JLU I expected a lot more out of Hawkgirl too, so I guess that's my fault. I just wish they had chosen a different backstory/mytharc for the show's foundation, as these two characters and their conflict on LOT are among the least interesting parts of the show for me.

 

I watched too, but VS never made much of an impression.  I knew Kendra was going to be very different than Sheyara (sp?) But yeah, not fond of tying Kendra's backstory to VS.  Bogs down the show.

[henripootel]

But he has an instruction manual! Lol.

Yeah, that wasn't preposterous at all.  I know they have to give Jax something to do but this seemed kinda silly - just say Gideon was giving him detailed instructions.  I'd ... almost believe that.  

 

Also wondered why the ship can't repair itself.  This is the future, right?  The Roomba guys never expanded into repair bots?

(and I love it if Mick turned out to be Chronos)

That would be an interesting twist, and might help explain why Chronos' plan of attack seems limited to 'walk straight in with small arms fire'.  Mick's an interesting guy but I'd bet strategy isn't his long suit. 

[jhlipton]

Like he might hide in Kendra's closet and watch her undress.

 

There's something wrong with that?  (Then I don't want to be right!)  LOL

[festivus]

Late posting but I just got to watch the episode. It was okay, as usual Sara was the best thing about it. I know he's kind of ridiculous and over the top but every time Wentworth Miller opens his mouth I just crack up. He just works for me, I love Snart. Vandal Savage was a bit better but I still hate that guy. I hope this season is the only one with him in it. I don't like him and I just can't warm up to Kendra either. I find their whole thing so boring.

[AudienceofOne]

I wasn't exactly motivated to watch this but was unwell this weekend and watched the first eight. Unfortunately, the show is weak. The main storyline simply isn't that interesting and Savage has not miraculously become an interesting villain (nor is he very well drawn). The only reason I kept watching was Sara who is as amazing as usual. Unfortunately, Caty Loitz' Canary is good enough to headline her own show and is wasted in the ensemble set up. You end up wanting scenes to be over just so you can move on to Sara's scenes so any episode where she's stuck on the ship is tedious.

 

Glad they killed off Carter Hall and hooking Kendra up with Ray was a surprisingly good move (even if it came across as exactly that - an inorganic move by the writers). And I feel like they're doing something interesting with Cold but his writing has been quite uneven.

 

Not impressed but enough elements are ok to stick around for a while.

 

As for this episode, I felt too much time was spent on Jax improbably being mutated and un-mutated in a 40 minute episode. It was kind of silly.

[KaleyFirefly]

I won't lie, seeing Rip and Cold in those trenchcoats did something to me. And the whole aesthetic, too. Visually, '50s (and '40s) USA is something I've always liked.

I know...especially Captain Cold...dude is hot in any era.

[feverfew]

I know...especially Captain Cold...dude is hot in any era.

Now I want to see him in wild west get-up... And maybe as a pirate ;)

[BkWurm1]

Now I want to see him in wild west get-up... And maybe as a pirate ;)

I believe the cowboy wish is being granted. :)

[tessaray]

I wasn't exactly motivated to watch this but was unwell this weekend and watched the first eight. Unfortunately, the show is weak. The main storyline simply isn't that interesting and Savage has not miraculously become an interesting villain (nor is he very well drawn). The only reason I kept watching was Sara who is as amazing as usual. Unfortunately, Caty Loitz' Canary is good enough to headline her own show and is wasted in the ensemble set up.

 

I don't feel quite so bad now.  I had gotten behind and watched the last 4 episodes over the weekend.  I would definitely watch a CL/Canary show.  Sara shines with both Rip and CC.  While the rest of the pairings have been interesting to watch, nothing has really come of them.  I do like Ray and Stein in geeky research mode, which is funny because both of them have comic book personas that are more boring than their normal selves.  Well, to me.  I suppose the 10 year olds probably like the Atom and Firestorm just fine.

 

I was a toddler in 1958 and considering how dangerously explosive race and sexual orientation were even 10 years later, the episode didn't really work for me.  Hope the follow-up is better. 

Edited March 29, 2016 by tessaray

[ratgirlagogo]

Just watched this episode. Had to smile when I recognized Ali Liebert (who played Nurse Carlisle), since she also played a lesbian struggling in the homophobic past in the show Bomb Girls. She was good there, too.

[Starfish35]

I remembered this being one of my least favorite episodes this season, and a rewatch definitely didn’t change my mind.  Savage + bird monsters.  Oy.  I don’t actually have much to say about this one.  It was a thing that happened.  

[Sakura12]

Yeah this was one was one of the worst of the season. I did like Sara's story with the nurse. And them sort of dealing with the racism and sexism of the time. The bird people were dumb. Rip's American accent was great though.

Also I just realized that the actress that played Betty is the one from Manifest.