S01.E09: The Writing Room

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quentin, Alice, Eliot and Penny travel to England to Plover's estate in search of a missing magic button, but what they find is a hauntingly terrifying vision of the author's true self. Julia, now out of rehab, searches for real meaning in her magic, but it comes at a very high cost.

 

Clip:

[KaleyFirefly]

This show is pretty dark. Dead kids killed by a nanny? A creepy pedaphile guy? I didn't want to watch a lot of this episode. And how did they know that writer had turned into The Beast? Did The Beast have extra fingers or something? 

 

As always, Penny and Elliott were the best parts of the show. They always have the best lines. I loved that Elliott was back to being his usual self even after the events of the previous episode (though he is probably just hiding his pain like Penny is).

[Eliza422]

Other than being horrified by most of this, I laughed when Alice and Elliot were sitting at the tea party. Elliot looked hysterical with his long legs sitting in that tiny chair.

I hope they do go back and release those poor kids....

Edited March 15, 2016 by Eliza422

[qtpye]

I thought this show did a great job of us having empathy for abuse and rape victims.  Game of Thrones is a fantastic show that understands nothing about rape.  Here I felt physically ill at seeing what those children had to endure.  Those people were monsters, long before anything supernatural happened to them. 

 

For the first time I felt for Quentiin.  The author that he idolized for creating his beautiful world of Fillory was a horror far greater then the beast.  I understood why Alice wanted to save those children, but even magic has its limits.

[TiffanyNichelle]

Mr. Sheffield, no! What would Fran say? I thought this was a pretty good episode, getting all the backstory of the Fillory books.

Penny is walking a fine line with me. Let me read someone else's book, ruin it, throw it away and then act like an ass about it.

I don't remember but did they ever explain what happened to the third Chatwin?

[qtpye]

Mr. Sheffield, no! What would Fran say? I thought this was a pretty good episode, getting all the backstory of the Fillory books.

 

 

I think the worst part of it is when he called Martin "darling", when he told him to take off his trousers.  I mean how many times have we heard Mr. Sheffield lovingly  refer to the Nanny like that?

 

It also showcased, that even though Quentin had a sad lonely childhood, his troubles are very first world compared to the Chatwins.  They had to deal with war, death, betrayal, physical, and sexual abuse. 

[enchantingmonkey]

Penny is walking a fine line with me. Let me read someone else's book, ruin it, throw it away and then act like an ass about it.

I think I was more pissed than Quentin was when Penny told him he'd thrown it away.  I saw myself losing my temper real quick.  

[GaT]

This was my favorite episode so far, even if it had the most horrifying things in it.

 

Penny is walking a fine line with me. Let me read someone else's book, ruin it, throw it away and then act like an ass about it.

I know, who does that? I must have missed where he got the book from, where was it?

 

How many times did they blank out the word "fuck" in this episode? It must be some kind of record.

 

I didn't understand the Julia storyline at all, what was she doing in that woman's brain & why does she always look like she's going to cry?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Normally I find Penny's attitude amusing, but ITA that he went over the line with that. If you want to be careless with your own stuff, fine. But you don't take someone else's stuff without permission, ruin it, throw it away, and then deny having anything to do with it. That's just common courtesy/not being a complete dick.

 

Shit really hit the fan this week, which was good from a plot point of view but oh, what a plot. Finding out that the author who you have worshipped was drugging and raping kids and that his sister was physically abusing them, ugh. No wonder poor Martin was desperate for Jane to find the button so he could get the fuck out of that guy's house of horrors.

 

As much as I understood Alice wanting to save the kids, didn't Penny say they were just seeing what happened? Alice said something about the kids having to relive it but I thought that Quentin & co. were just seeing a memory, not that the kids were stuck in a perpetual time loop.

 

I loved that when the tour guide found them, Eliot made a little ball of light to convince him that he was a super hero (or whatever it was he claimed to be).

 

So what is Prudence? A ghost who lives in the house? I know she struck one of the kids, but did she actually touch Penny, Alice, Eliot, or Quentin? Was she corporeal? Could she hurt them? The only thing I remember her touching was the tea stuff (when she put the drugs in the teacups of Alice, Eliot, and the little girl), but she was the one who tied up Alice and Eliot in the playroom and put Penny in chains in the dungeon. Hee, and I loved that when she started threatening Penny, he apparated himself right the hell out of her creepy dungeon.

 

I wasn't very interested in Julia's story tonight, but I really loved that she and Quentin drew a map of Fillory underneath the table when they were kids.

[wayne67]

That got dark...

 

Penny lost points for treating a rare manuscript so poorly and acting like a total ass about it.

 

Julia actually acted like a semi decent person for a change, though I'm still not clear as to why Q f'd things up in Julia's mind, for not getting her a second chance to a school? pales in comparison to a mind rape/near murder.

 

I'm glad they didn't stick around. Usually the character insisting they stick around to resolve the issue is proved right.

I'm not sure why they couldn't come back at some later point. Did they forget that Margot has a djinn... They could get her to wish the ghosts to be released. 

 

*sigh*

 

Quentin took a long time to cast a finding spell.

[FiveByFive]

Did they forget that Margot has a djinn... They could get her to wish the ghosts to be released.

*sigh*

Me thinks "releasing" ghosts could have repercussions and using a djinn to do so would be even worse. Release doesn't necessary means "send away to heaven" or wherever. Those things could be released and terrorize people. It's best to reserve the djinn for very special cases where there's less chance of the language being twisted. They have a horrible track record.

Besides, Margo is the djinn's master and she's quite busy off somewhere being Margo.

We'll have to take Elliott's word that there's nothing they can do and it's obvious he was actually angry at himself for having to kill his possessed ex boyfriend he knew for all of five seconds since he couldn't be freed from the Beast's grasp.

As for Julia, I am happy she is getting a redemption storyline. Normally I wouldn't even care about this character after hating her for so long for sucking up space but I liked that she's still normal in there somewhere. There's something ... genuine about it to me? Weird, I know.

Also I still have a thing for Mackenzie Astin.

Dislike: Tour guide telling them to leave while looking panicked. They ignore him & kept pressing him with questions. Guide ends up dead and they are all, "oops!" Then go back to looking for their button and dodging ghosts. Please don't turn into TVD where that's not a big deal.

Love: That the woman whose mind Julia entered was a lesbian and there was zero fuc*s given about it. That's what I like to see.

Edited March 15, 2016 by FiveByFive

[HunterHunted]

Penny is walking a fine line with me. Let me read someone else's book, ruin it, throw it away and then act like an ass about it.

It was an epically asshole move. No matter how annoying Quentin is, you need to be a lot more empathetic than he's being right now.

This episode was so creepy and unsettling: Plover, his sister, and Oliver's plans to molest the Chatwins and the housekeeper's kids, and escaping to Fillory. Yeesh.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Even if the book in question hadn't been a rare one of a kind manuscript, what Penny did was still a dick move. If he had done that to a beat up old John Grisham paperback, it was still way out of line. Obviously I have a huge issue with people not respecting other people's property.

 

Despite Eliot's current emo state, I think that as far as he knows there isn't a way for them to free the kids from the house. In other words, he isn't just being a cranky pain in the ass. While part of me feels bad that he had to kill his new boyfriend Mike, I still have to agree with Margo's original assessment: what was so special about Mike that made him different from every other random guy Eliot has hooked up with? Still, I can't fault him for feeling crappy right now. My question is whether anyone else knows that he killed Mike or if he is hiding that fact from the other students.

 

I am still so creeped out by that poor little boy having to let the author take naked pictures of him (combined with the guilt trip about how he was taking care of him and his sister) before being raped. And the author's creepy sister was in on it too, drugging Jane. What a fucked up family.

[Lemur]

I don't remember but did they ever explain what happened to the third Chatwin?

 

Rupert.  He's off fighting in World War I.  This was apparently some sort of interim period between when their mother died and Rupert came back from the front.  I'm assuming based on what the tour guide said about the kids living with Plovver (intentional misspelling) and what they said about Rupert being injured in the War.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Inside the episode (so lovely to see that Slates for Sarah still continues!):

 

Edited March 15, 2016 by ElectricBoogaloo

[TiffanyNichelle]

 

I must have missed where he got the book from, where was it?

Penny or Quentin? Quentin got it from Jane Chatwin in the first episode when he went to do his Harvard interview. Penny took it from Quentin's stuff when they moved in together.

 

 

I didn't understand the Julia storyline at all, what was she doing in that woman's brain & why does she always look like she's going to cry?

Yes! She always looks likes someone just punched her in the face. I guess Julia's new storyline is about her doing good without getting all crazy for more magic. She'll be the opposite of Marina, reaching out to the hedge witches and helping them instead of hurting them? Though I did a head tilt when the coma woman was all "the world hates smart girls which is why we have to do it for ourselves and screw Brakebills because they don't get smart girls (Alice? Kady? Margo?)" while being stuck in a coma from doing she learned on her own.

 

That said I liked the glimpse of the old Julia/Quentin friendship when they were kids. I still don't know how he's the ass for not getting her into Brakebills because he has so much sway there.

 

 

I am still so creeped out by that poor little boy having to let the author take naked pictures of him (combined with the guilt trip about how he was taking care of him and his sister) before being raped. And the author's creepy sister was in on it too, drugging Jane. What a fucked up family.

What really disturbed me is that they drugged Jane and left her in the room. They've done it enough to know they could drug her and Ployver could molest poor Martin right in front of her without any fear of being caught.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I still don't know how he's the ass for not getting her into Brakebills because he has so much sway there.

On the face of it, I agree that it was never Quentin's responsibility to get Julia back into Brakebills. After all, he is just a first year student. Imagine how that would work with any other graduate program. "Hi, I just got here so you don't know much about me, but you rejected my friend and I think you should really reconsider your decision." Yeah, that would go over really well.

So in that sense, Quentin is not at all to blame for that. But I think Julia's anger is a combination of things. First, she asked him to do this for her and if I recall correctly he didn't exactly come right out and tell her no. So all those weeks/months, she was just waiting, thinking that he was working on a way to get her in. In other words, he was kind of stringing her along because he didn't want to be honest with her.

On top of that, when he finally admitted that he had never even asked Dean Fogg to retest her, he said a lot of really mean things to her that showed their friendship wasn't exactly what she had thought it was. If she was truly oblivious to his more than friendly feelings for her, she must have felt doubly betrayed by his accusations. Here she thought they were BFFs when he had actually been secretly in love/lust with her but (1) he never told her about his feelings (2) he resented her for not returning his feelings (3) he was doing that creepy thing where he kept being her friend in the hopes that one day she would return his feelings.

I don't care for Julia and I think it was not at all Quentin's job to get her into Brakebills, but I can understand why she was upset. I also think that she has placed the brunt of her overall frustration on him. I can imagine her thinking, "If he had just gotten me into Brakebills like he was supposed to, I wouldn't have gotten involved with Marina, my boyfriend's memory wouldn't have been erased, and I wouldn't have seen Kady's mom die in front of me." I'm not saying that she's right though, just that I can see her blaming all of this on Quentin because that makes things simpler for her.

[blugirlami21]

I liked the episode even though it was very dark. I feel for those kids but I agreed with Elliot. Alice managed to forget that they were completely at those ghosts' mercy even the victim ghosts. I don't know what she hoped to acomplish by going back in there half-assed. I'm all for going back later. Sadly, those ghosts aren't going anywhere. Plenty of time to figure it out.

Penny is an ass, he always has been. I'm not certain what he did with Quentin's book is worse than anything else he's done. I think it was just a harsh reminder of how much he changed or didn't change depending on how you look at it.

I too didn't understand what was so special about Mike but I think the beast put a spell on Elliot tbh. He didn't and doesn't seem like the type to fall head over heels like that.

As for Julia, she's still a douche. That letter did her no favors. All I heard was me, me, me. She's still not taking responsibility for her actions. Nor has she once acted as a friend to Quentin since he got into Brakebills. I don't know how her road to redemption starts with assisted suicide. I just feel like she just traded one form of magical control for another. She does always look like she wants to cry all the time, I think it's her face. Even when she smiles she looks miserable, it bugs.

Edited March 15, 2016 by blugirlami21

[futurechemist]

This was a dark episode.  The most light-hearted plot was about assisted suicide.  Not dark enough to stop me watching, but I hope things get a little more light-hearted.

[iMonrey]

This was a good episode but I question why the author's sister was able to snatch away the tour guide and sew his lips shut but never did that with any of the other intruders. It all happened in the blink of an eye too, whereas when Penny woke up in the "quiet place" he had time to get away.

 

I think it's interesting that Fillory seems rather obviously based on Narnia and yet they chose to base at least part of the author on Lewis Carroll rather than CS Lewis; the former had infamously photographed young girls in the nude. 

 

I cracked up when Quentin was geeking out on the author's house and took a selfie in the writing room. I think that's the first time I've ever seen him come close to an actual smile!

 

The whole haunted house premise was so interesting I was annoyed by the intrusion of Julia's story which I found boring.

 

I am however a little frustrated by how overly two-dimensional the characters are written. Quentin and his sad-sack emo hair, Alice and her perpetual sourpuss, Elliot being an over the top bitchy queen and Penny always on the verge of roid rage. A little nuance would be nice.

[FiveByFive]

Though I did a head tilt when the coma woman was all "the world hates smart girls which is why we have to do it for ourselves and screw Brakebills because they don't get smart girls (Alice? Kady? Margo?)" while being stuck in a coma from doing she learned on her own. 

 

Sort of ...

 

Kiera was writing the spell before she got sick.  When she was done she figured out that it didn't work but before she could find the answer she became ill.  However, since her mind worked she kept trying to find out how to make the spell function. Since she had been working for the past year she finally decided that she wanted to die. So, she needed Julia to carry on the work.

 

She told Julia that she went to MIT and studied magic on her own. She didn't get into Brakebills either and she added that she didn't need school to do it.

 

Julia's comments to her were related to what Quentin said to her when she was showing him what she had learned on her own and he was putting her down saying that the people that got into Brakebills were really good and that they probably knew what they were doing when they rejected her. So even though she had learned some things she still wasn't good enough. Quentin then continued on to tell Julia that she has always been good at everything and he wasn't but magic is his thing (paraphrasing) so she should move on.

 

Thing is, Kiera traveling into Julia's mind proved that Julia wanted to do magic from a young age just like Quentin. Julia just had more options than Quentin because of her intelligence but yeah, the root of it was there. Kiera tells her that if she sticks to that she'll be fine. (That being the map she and Quentin made or rather keep studying and practicing on your own.)

 

Kiera said to her, "Forget that school, the world never did help a smart girl, why would it? We scare the shit out of the world.If the world goes after you, take it as a compliment." Implying that her not getting into Brakebiils didn't have anything to do with her aptitude to do magic. She didn't need school. It wouldn't really help her. In fact Kiera could write spells on her own since she really understood magic. Someone as smart as she and Julia is scary. That may even be the reason they didn't get in. So in this show, the Hedgewitches look for copies of spells and memorize them. The Brakebills students go to class and learn them. Kiera implied that someone truly smart could learn the components and write their own like she did. That is in itself is scary since you can make anything you want, really. 

 

Both of them were smart, (Yale and MIT), both got rejected from Brakebills and Kiera did just fine on her own until she got ill and she believed that Julia would be fine as well on her own. Maybe the stuff she studies won't add up to anything (Kiera and her girlfriend making silly rainbows in a rainstorm) but the love of it is the important part she needed to remember.

 

So in other words if you really want to do magic, you can do it on your own by using that brain of yours to figure it out. You can write your own spells. You don't need Brakebills or Hedgewitches. Even if the spells are "party tricks" or if they don't work if you really love it you'll keep doing it just like you wanted to do when you were a kid. Stop thinking about Brakebills and if magic really makes you happy then just do it, sister-girl. 

 

PS.  Also Julia is in rehab and basically has destroyed her life over the past few months so I'm okay with her looking depressed all the time. When the character smiled this episode, she had earned it. She hadn't had a happy moment where she wasn't angry or vindictive since damn near the start of the series. 

Edited March 15, 2016 by FiveByFive

[Izeinwinter]

The whole bit about the house being an annex of hell due to purely human evil made a frightening amount of sense within the rules of magic in this universe - a clock that opens onto a magical world would, of course, be in a vortex of pain. I wanted them to burn the place down. Partially just because, but also because it's more likely to end the haunting than anything else. 

 

I have this sinking feeling that the poor abused kid grew up to become the Beast, tough it would actually be a nice break with cliche if the Beast is that monstrous author. 

 

Julia is meeting a much better class of magician these days. Kira and the preacher have ... uhm. Had. Their shit together. I'm unclear if Kira was dying to a regular disease and failed at concocting a cure, or if her state was a magical accident, but either way, She was just very, very sane, and as happy as could be reconciled with her dire straits and that sanity. That is just really impressive character. (in all senses. Well written, and as a trait) It gives me hope that Julia will be doing better going forward, and also that she'll get some sleep at some point. 

Edited March 15, 2016 by Izeinwinter

[HunterHunted]

I had to think on this all damn day to understand why I was so annoyed by Penny's peevish obnoxiousness in relaying what happened to Quentin's missing book.

1. You don't take and throw away other people's things

2. Penny knows that the beast has been manipulating all of them

3. Penny also knows that Fillory is real and the beast lives there

4. Penny knows that the beast is trying to kill Quentin and maybe all of them

5. Penny knows that the beast almost killed him and that information from the Fillory books saved his life.

So why must he be an ass when communicating to Quentin about what he did with the book? He already threw it out. He can't unring that bell, but at least be civil and contrite now that you know that those books actually matter in a life and death way.

[Melissa56789]

 

So why must he be an ass when communicating to Quentin about what he did with the book? He already threw it out. He can't unring that bell, but at least be civil and contrite now that you know that those books actually matter in a life and death way.

 

Two words:  Taylor Swift

 

Penny can't unring all the stuff he hears in Quentin's mind.  (and they are frenemies)  :-)

[grandemocha]

Oh shit, this entire episode made me really fucking sad and uncomfortable. I felt so sad for those kids.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Penny can't unring all the stuff he hears in Quentin's mind.  (and they are frenemies)  :-)

I totally cracked up when Quentin asked it was too much for them to be basic allies.

[stillshimpy]

Actually, Margo is the only female character who got into Brakebills on her own.  Alice had to steal her parents key, because Dean Fogg thought it was appropriate to keep her from attending so that her parents wouldn't be at risk of losing another child to magic (removing a woman's choice? Check.  Treating a woman as the property of her parents!  Score for the patriarchy, I guess) and only after Alice showed up there without an invitation did she get in. 

 

So thematically within the TV series they have been exploring the concept that Kira talked to Julia about.  

 

I enjoyed the episode, but damn, the stuff at the author's house was pitch-black-kind-of-dark.  

 

 

 

As much as I understood Alice wanting to save the kids, didn't Penny say they were just seeing what happened? Alice said something about the kids having to relive it but I thought that Quentin & co. were just seeing a memory, not that the kids were stuck in a perpetual time loop.

 

But apparently something of them survives to experience it over and over again.  The kids were able to interact with Alice, Elliot and Quentin and tried to spare them and help them.  I got why Alice was distraught, it's not just movies from the past.  The kids have some kind of consciousness and awareness of their fate set on perpetual loop.   

 

Penny really did crank up the Jackass Bully to unbearable levels with that bullshit about stealing Quentin's manuscript.  

 

 

 

So why must he be an ass when communicating to Quentin about what he did with the book? He already threw it out. He can't unring that bell, but at least be civil and contrite now that you know that those books actually matter in a life and death way.

 

I think Penny is supposed to have taken it at the point where he just hated Quentin and now he just hates the shit out of everyone in the wake of Kady.  Plus,  I think he's also supposed to be in a lot of psychic pain a lot of the time, just from his mind reading abilities. 

 

When it comes to Quentin and Julia and what Julia has to forgive, well, kind of a lot really.  He was never under any obligation to try and get her into Brakebills...at least not a logical one.  Where Julia went in her mind with Kira, underneath the table, to the map she and Quentin made together made things get even more complicated.  Apparently Fillory and magic was their shared refuge as kids.  It's just a question of loyalty to a friend when helping them.  I think it could reasonably be argued that Julia had every reason to believe their friendship meant enough to him to try and help her get in.  To try and help her not be in emotional pain.  

 

Now she violated Quentin's mind and nearly killed him, so she's far from innocent herself, but Quentin even told her that he was glad she didn't get in and then he threw out that old, icky thing, "You knew how I felt about you!"  ....like Julia had owed him something for his romantic feelings towards her, or was supposed to guess.  

 

That old women-as-vending machines idiocy:  Put friendship in and expect to get sex out!  is just not how it works and that was easily Quentin's lowest point in the series so far.  I think he does understand what a shitastic thing that was to think, let alone say, let alone have it influence his inactions.  

 

Then at the very, very least, he should have told Fogg the brain wipe didn't work, but Quentin let Julia suffer, pretty much as punishment.   Julia knows that because Quentin told her that while adding that he liked knowing that for once she wasn't the best at something (Kira's point underlined there).  

 

So Julia does have her own reasons to be really angry with Quentin and Quentin knows it, which is why he put the "I'm sorry too" on there.  They've both wronged the hell out of each other, but considering Julia risked Quentin's life -- and then did try to help him -- I think she still has more to atone for than he does.  He was being a garden variety "But I had feelings for you" kind of jackass.  

 

Anyway, I like the progression of the story and I was glad that Julia helped Kira (she went into Kira's mind while the drug counselor overdosed Kira....which....presumably they used something untraceable, or Kira could wake up enough to do things some times, because if they do an autopsy....uh...how's she supposed to have done that to herself?) .  

 

Still a little wigged out by that story at the Plover house though.   I guess Plover's the Beast.  

Edited March 16, 2016 by stillshimpy

[qtpye]

I have this sinking feeling that the poor abused kid grew up to become the Beast, tough it would actually be a nice break with cliche if the Beast is that monstrous author.

 

 

I was looking through my guide and saw a channel that was playing back to back episodes of "The Nanny" and I actually shuddered.  I never really liked that show, but now Mr. Sheffield is really going to creep me out.

 

I am also going to guess that Martin is the beast (pure speculation), which if true, almost makes me feel bad for him.

 

I mean stories like Peter Pan and Narnia talk about how children can enter magical worlds because of their innocence and openness, when compared to adults.

 

I think the sexual abuse killed Martin's innocence and that is why he was no longer able to enter the magic world, which of course is tragically unfair, but would not excuse murderous behavior, if true.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Haha, totally worth it to see Penny on a rocking horse! The location manager pronounces the author's name as ploe-ver (rhymes with the word "clover") but the actors made it rhyme with the word "lover" - who is correct?

Edited March 17, 2016 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Lemur]

Penny really did crank up the Jackass Bully to unbearable levels with that bullshit about stealing Quentin's manuscript.  

 

He's an enigma wrapped inside a mystery and crudely stapled to ticking f*cking time bomb.

Edited March 17, 2016 by Lemur

[iMonrey]

That's why I say I'd appreciate seeing a little nuance to some of these characters because Penny is just "angry dick" 99.9% of the time.

[Mya Stone]

Okay, I finally marathoned this show over two days (yeah I'm hooked) and think that Penny's overall annoyance is more displaced anger at himself. He's pissed that he got caught, because he's forced to explain it - and that anger is easily his transferring his disbelievement that QUENTIN was right. It's infuriating! How the hell is Quentin ever right? He sings Taylor Swift in his mind, for crying out loud!

That's my read, anyway.

This show got DARK. Man. I had called that Eliza was Jane to my fiance, and I'm pretty mad that when he finally believed me, she died. We both feel Martin is the Beast, and this episode showed how, exactly, that would happen. I absolutely agree with the poster who said Fillory closed itself to Martin when he lost his innocence from what Plovver was doing to him. It takes a very damaged person to do with the Beast has done. Poor Martin. :(

[wayne67]

Actually, Margo is the only female character who got into Brakebills on her own.  Alice had to steal her parents key, because Dean Fogg thought it was appropriate to keep her from attending so that her parents wouldn't be at risk of losing another child to magic (removing a woman's choice? Check.  Treating a woman as the property of her parents!  Score for the patriarchy, I guess) and only after Alice showed up there without an invitation did she get in. 

 

So thematically within the TV series they have been exploring the concept that Kira talked to Julia about.  

 

I think Penny is supposed to have taken it at the point where he just hated Quentin and now he just hates the shit out of everyone in the wake of Kady.  Plus,  I think he's also supposed to be in a lot of psychic pain a lot of the time, just from his mind reading abilities. 

 

When it comes to Quentin and Julia and what Julia has to forgive, well, kind of a lot really.  He was never under any obligation to try and get her into Brakebills...at least not a logical one.  Where Julia went in her mind with Kira, underneath the table, to the map she and Quentin made together made things get even more complicated.  Apparently Fillory and magic was their shared refuge as kids.  It's just a question of loyalty to a friend when helping them.  I think it could reasonably be argued that Julia had every reason to believe their friendship meant enough to him to try and help her get in.  To try and help her not be in emotional pain.  

 

Now she violated Quentin's mind and nearly killed him, so she's far from innocent herself, but Quentin even told her that he was glad she didn't get in and then he threw out that old, icky thing, "You knew how I felt about you!"  ....like Julia had owed him something for his romantic feelings towards her, or was supposed to guess.  

 

That old women-as-vending machines idiocy:  Put friendship in and expect to get sex out!  is just not how it works and that was easily Quentin's lowest point in the series so far.  I think he does understand what a shitastic thing that was to think, let alone say, let alone have it influence his inactions.  

 

Then at the very, very least, he should have told Fogg the brain wipe didn't work, but Quentin let Julia suffer, pretty much as punishment.   Julia knows that because Quentin told her that while adding that he liked knowing that for once she wasn't the best at something (Kira's point underlined there).  

 

So Julia does have her own reasons to be really angry with Quentin and Quentin knows it, which is why he put the "I'm sorry too" on there.  They've both wronged the hell out of each other, but considering Julia risked Quentin's life -- and then did try to help him -- I think she still has more to atone for than he does.  He was being a garden variety "But I had feelings for you" kind of jackass.  

 

For starters Kady and Margo apparently had no issues getting into the evil patriarchal school...

 

Julia got to the admission stage and FAILED the testing stage. No indication of gender bias.

 

Alice didn't get invited to the admission stage because her brother died recently at the school and the Dean didn't think it was a good idea to have a grieving sister engaged in very dangerous lessons that require strict discipline. Her actions proved him right. First thing she did on getting to the school was try and summon her dead brother's ghost, calling out to the Beast instead and resulting in his injury. Learning nothing from that she tried to give a body to a vengeful spirit while he tried to strangle Quentin.  Also no gender bias. 

 

Also Eliza/Jane has been advising Quentin that Brakebills isn't that fantastic as it's the garden path and is only one way of magic. There are other options off the garden path. Julia is off the garden path.

 

Secondly. Quentin may have been callous about Julia's feelings about not getting into the school but his stance was you didn't get in get over it and move on. 

 

Somehow Julia thought this somehow meant that he'd go out of his way and use his total non influence to get her a second chance. 

 

Her issues are completely her own.

 

As for Quentin and the vending machine comparison. He never said anything about sex. Maybe he was pissed that she knew he had feelings and instead of acknowledging that she had a bf and even if she didn't she just considered him a friend, she just kept stringing him along, jumping into his bed whenever as if she didn't know or care about his feelings.

 

Also if we're going to make sexist comparisons. If men think of women as vending machines. Women think of men as ATMs where they just take and take goods and services with no thought of reciprocation.

 

Quentin was a callous ass about her rejection. She decided to mess with his sanity even knowing he was recently admitted to a psychiatric facility. Julia is a self involved narcissist that assumes everyone will bend over backwards to give her stuff because she's a pretty white girl. Eg that bartender she stole spells from, not caring about any consequences he might suffer at Marina's hands for handing over spells and then had the audacity to throw a tantrum when he wouldn't give her more spells and information. Yet he did end up doing it... because she's a pretty white girl.

Edited March 17, 2016 by wayne67

[stillshimpy]

Okay, I finally marathoned this show over two days (yeah I'm hooked) and think that Penny's overall annoyance is more displaced anger at himself. He's pissed that he got caught, because he's forced to explain it - and that anger is easily his transferring his disbelievement that QUENTIN was right. It's infuriating! How the hell is Quentin ever right? He sings Taylor Swift in his mind, for crying out loud!

 

Unfortunately that wouldn't explain why he was stealing Quentin's stuff, spilling stuff on it and throwing it away from jump though, Mya.

 

I do think that after Kady, part of what's going on with Penny is that he's just fucked up almost all the time.  What a scouting party that was to Plover's house, by the way:  Alice, who lost her brother horribly.  Penny, betrayed by his lover -- although Penny knows about Marina, so he presumably understands how little choice she had, he seems to be blaming her for leaving him at Mayakovskys.  Elliot who was used by The Beast in an exploitative manner himself.

 

I don't know, I don't currently have a lot of patience with Penny's existential angst.  

 

Plover's sister being an accomplice and procurer was also pretty unsettling.  

 

 

 

I absolutely agree with the poster who said Fillory closed itself to Martin when he lost his innocence from what Plovver was doing to him. It takes a very damaged person to do with the Beast has done. Poor Martin. :(

 

Maybe, but if The Beast is Martin and we know Eliza was Jane Chatwin, one thing is for sure:  She didn't seem to have much sympathy for The Beast.

Edited March 18, 2016 by stillshimpy

[grandemocha]

 

Maybe, but if The Beast is Martin and we know Eliza was Jane Chatwin, one thing is for sure:  She didn't seem to have much sympathy for The Beast.

I'm just spitballing here, but maybe Eliza spent a large period of time in Fillory and Martin eventually was able to grow those extra fingers for the spell work, got into Fillory, did some twisted shit and killed some people (that maybe Jane/Eliza cared for), and Eliza tried for years to kill him and end it so she has now lost any sympathy she might have once had for Martin (if he's The Beast)?? They don't seem to have aged normally.

[feverfew]

I'm just spitballing here, but maybe Eliza spent a large period of time in Fillory and Martin eventually was able to grow those extra fingers for the spell work, got into Fillory, did some twisted shit and killed some people (that maybe Jane/Eliza cared for), and Eliza tried for years to kill him and end it so she has now lost any sympathy she might have once had for Martin (if he's The Beast)?? They don't seem to have aged normally.

I think Martin is the Beast too, if only for the classic trope: Becoming the thing that twisted you (not a paedophile like Plover, but something dark and cruel). If Martin is the Beast, he's broken beyond redemption - at least in Eliza/Janes eyes. How much did she know about what was going on? Did Plover abuse her too? Martin said something about waiting for Jane before he took his clothes off, but everything afterwards gave the impression it was only Martin.

 

If Martin is the Beast then the whole "he wants to close off/control all doors to Fillory" makes a sort of horrible sense - if he's "king" of Fillory he can make sure that nobody will ever come there to hurt him. Speaking of Fillory, what sort of terribly judgemental place keeps a child from entering, when the innocence lost is through no fault of the child? Badly done, Narnia, badly done.

[stillshimpy]

Speaking of Fillory, what sort of terribly judgemental place keeps a child from entering, when the innocence lost is through no fault of the child?

 

That's why I doubt it barred the door to Fillory because Martin was being abused.  More than one thing can be true at once. Martin could be abused and evil all by himself, with or without that abuse.   That just seems so overtly, simplistically victim-blaming that I kind of doubt that's what was going on. 

 

If Martin is The Beast here, it's possible there's more to it than "Oh he was sexually abused and therefore rejected from the land of Fillory for not being innocent any longer" .  Although that was always a note within the Narnia series, the kids got too old and stopped being able to get into Narnia as the adult world essentially called to them, I hope they aren't being quite that literal with the "loss of innocence"  in the Narnia chronicles it isn't  quite "puberty struck!" but seems to be more about participation in the adult world.  Although I will never forgive C. S. Lewis with that bullshit with Susan being interested in boys and silk stockings and dances....so she's barred from the afterlife...and yes, paramitch, I know Lewis would eventually say that there was time for Susan to get there in her own way, but it's like we were talking about with Frost and that poem....if everyone thinks a poem is about death....the poem's about death....if most people walked away from Susan being barred from The Last Battle thinking she is damned to hell because she likes stockings....it's problematic in the same way.     

So that's probably why I'm just really hoping that the series won't have that prove to be the case.  Innocence being stolen is not quite the same as growing up and losing innocence.  

 

We'll see what happens here, but The Beast had a traveler in a dungeon when Penny was able to pop in to Fillory, Jane could apparently come and go as a full grown woman -- who had not aged normally, but still -- so just on the grounds of that being a little too on-the-nose for why Fillory was closed to Martin, I'm going to pull a wait-and-see. 

 

So maybe Martin is The Beast and Fillory started barring him because it understood that he would be and tried to keep him at bay. 

 

ETA:  Oh one other thing, I was a little confused by the guide/caretaker being all "EEK!" at Elliot's "I'm a super villain" thing when apparently he had some information about malicious and murderous ghosts being in there (enough to fear them) ....and by the way....having something that kills caretakers and sews people's mouths shut running around in a tourist attraction is probably enough to warrant a clearing for a clearing's sake, Elliot. 

Edited March 18, 2016 by stillshimpy

[snuffles]

I think Martin is the beast too. Based on the way Eliza spoke to the beast before he killed her, it seems like she was addressing him as an equal or contemporary and not as a superior. She would have been more formal with the beast if he were Mr. Plover, British manners and all

[queenanne]

I think it's interesting that Fillory seems rather obviously based on Narnia and yet they chose to base at least part of the author on Lewis Carroll rather than CS Lewis; the former had infamously photographed young girls in the nude. 

 

On that point of order they're pretty clearly following Grossman's canon, though.  It isn't something the showrunners made up.

 

That's why I doubt it barred the door to Fillory because Martin was being abused.  More than one thing can be true at once. Martin could be abused and evil all by himself, with or without that abuse.   That just seems so overtly, simplistically victim-blaming that I kind of doubt that's what was going on. 

 

If Martin is The Beast here, it's possible there's more to it than "Oh he was sexually abused and therefore rejected from the land of Fillory for not being innocent any longer" .  Although that was always a note within the Narnia series, the kids got too old and stopped being able to get into Narnia as the adult world essentially called to them, I hope they aren't being quite that literal with the "loss of innocence"  in the Narnia chronicles it isn't  quite "puberty struck!" but seems to be more about participation in the adult world.  Although I will never forgive C. S. Lewis with that bullshit with Susan being interested in boys and silk stockings and dances....so she's barred from the afterlife...and yes, paramitch, I know Lewis would eventually say that there was time for Susan to get there in her own way, but it's like we were talking about with Frost and that poem....if everyone thinks a poem is about death....the poem's about death....if most people walked away from Susan being barred from The Last Battle thinking she is damned to hell because she likes stockings....it's problematic in the same way.     

 

I feel like Lewis says Susan would prefer parties etc., because it's shorthand for "now multiple extra people will enter the Pevensie children's lives, taking it out of a shared microcosm where it's plausible you could just go disappearing and having secret conversations about secret worlds et al".  Once adults take an interest in you, then your companions become adults, to whom "everyone pays attention", the same of which cannot be said for kids.

 

Besides, then symbols of female adulthood were; silk stockings instead of lisle or whatever they stuck clambering kids into, and putting your hair up and wearing long dresses.  I can't hold that against Lewis.

Edited March 20, 2016 by queenanne

[Swansong]

 

Then at the very, very least, he should have told Fogg the brain wipe didn't work, but Quentin let Julia suffer, pretty much as punishment.

I didn't get that either really. She did all she could to make sure she would remember and then got mad at Quentin because she actually did remember and so then it was his responsibility because he didn't go out of the way to make sure she forgot? lol 

[wayne67]

I didn't get that either really. She did all she could to make sure she would remember and then got mad at Quentin because she actually did remember and so then it was his responsibility because he didn't go out of the way to make sure she forgot? lol 

 

Haven't you heard ? Whenever something goes wrong for a woman it's a man's fault... because reasons... so sayeth modern feminism. 

[AudienceofOne]

On 3/16/2016 at 0:22 AM, TiffanyNichelle said:

Though I did a head tilt when the coma woman was all "the world hates smart girls which is why we have to do it for ourselves and screw Brakebills because they don't get smart girls (Alice? Kady? Margo?)" while being stuck in a coma from doing she learned on her own.

Me too. Was that what we're supposed to get from Julia's plot line? That she's 'too smart' and Brakebills didn't want her because she would question too much? Because it's true generally but that's not what this story is showing at all. What I'm getting is that Brakebills could see how unstable she was and wanted to make sure somebody like that didn't remember magic.  I mean, her reaction to not being accepted was to unquestioningly join a magical cult so 'being smart' doesn't seem to be coming into it for me. And the woman she was talking to was a walking (or non-walking) testament to the fact that 'doing it alone' where magic is concerned is a fundamentally bad idea. 

On 3/20/2016 at 6:24 PM, snuffles said:

I think Martin is the beast too. Based on the way Eliza spoke to the beast before he killed her, it seems like she was addressing him as an equal or contemporary and not as a superior. She would have been more formal with the beast if he were Mr. Plover, British manners and all

I thought Martin was the beast right up until Plover's spiel about them being in Fillory together. As an adult he was excluded and he didn't want to be. It's possible though that Martin would see Fillory as an escape from Plover and he would steal his 'wild magic' (whatever that is) and use it to escape. Then be trying to barricade Fillory to keep Plover (and anybody else) out. It could be either of them at this stage I think.

The highlight for this episode for me was Elliot. Dude can act. I hope they give him more to do.

[hincandenza]

On 3/16/2016 at 2:43 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I totally cracked up when Quentin asked it was too much for them to be basic allies.

I've just finished binge watching this show over the last few days- I didn't know it even existed until I stumbled across it on Netflix, and was surprised how much I enjoyed it (and happily finished with only two weeks until season 2 premieres!).  Largely, because of lines of dialogue like this one you point out; people talking like actual people, including saying the word fuck, or calling someone out on their bullshit.  I can't think how many times I've been watching a show where character A has betrayed some important/acted against the protagonists' interests for what were childish, petty, personal reasons and character B didn't bluntly point out that their little adolescent melodrama means fuck-all in the current circumstances (usually doing the commiserating "I'm sorry I hurt you!"), and as a viewer I got really annoyed.  Here, Quentin said exactly what I would have which is "Jesus, do you not see that this is a matter of life and death that you're treating this like you ate some of my dorm room snack stash?"  The whole season was like that, where the characters (mostly) behave in sane, realistic ways and ask questions/say things that aren't just bad dialogue forced into place to fit some pre-ordained narrative.

 

On 3/17/2016 at 2:25 PM, wayne67 said:

Quentin was a callous ass about her rejection. She decided to mess with his sanity even knowing he was recently admitted to a psychiatric facility. Julia is a self involved narcissist that assumes everyone will bend over backwards to give her stuff because she's a pretty white girl. Eg that bartender she stole spells from, not caring about any consequences he might suffer at Marina's hands for handing over spells and then had the audacity to throw a tantrum when he wouldn't give her more spells and information. Yet he did end up doing it... because she's a pretty white girl.

I agree with your whole post; Brakebills is kind of staid and literally "old school", but there's no evidence they are misogynistic.  As for Julia, she made all her own issues out of thin cloth.  She was a Yale graduate with a promising future who threw it away because of magic; she wasn't owed anything by either Brakebills or Quentin.  While Quentin could have been more sympathetic when he got in and she didn't, he otherwise has his own life to focus on and doesn't owe her much of anything, childhood besties or no.  

Julia's overreaction and vicious reprisals (as you note, using magic to mindfuck a guy who recently left a voluntary facility because he thought he was crazy for believing in magic) were not unlike the Penny book thing.  Penny the bully reacted to basically his own hatred of Quentin for something Quentin can't even control (that Penny can read his thoughts) by going to 11 on the "Stupid, fucked up moves that only hurt every person at the school", when he would have already known that the book would be useful in dealing with The Beast.  Quentin isn't perfect, but his sins are of the small, normal variety of everyone's early 20's, while Penny and Julia have done things that outright endanger (or kill) multiple people... and didn't have the decency to feel even a little remorse.

[RedHackle]

Only just recently started this show but have been bingeing the living crap out of it. Seriously, I'm just so in love with it. Had to stop to quote Quentin:  "This house is haunted as balls, that's what." Dying.

[RedHackle]

Only just recently started this show but have been bingeing the living crap out of it. Seriously, I'm just so in love with it. Had to stop to quote Quentin:  "This house is haunted as balls, that's what." Dying.

Half an hour later; holy shit. For an episode that started out that funny, that sure took a turn to the dark in a hurry.. Damn, show.

[Camera One]

This was a really good episode.  I was angry that Penny threw away the manuscript and acted so blasé about it.  I loved how the characters got to see flashes of the past, though I have mixed feelings about the backstory with the sexual abuse.   Up until that point, I thought maybe the characters would eventually get to meet the author who is trapped in Fillory.  It also takes away from the fun Narnia vibe to have such a dark and disturbing origin.  I also didn't like the gratuitous death of the tour guide.  Still, it all made for a very intense and exciting plotline.  I really hope Martin is not the beast.  

I hope Julia is indeed getting a redemption.  I liked her conversations with the catatonic patient.  Hopefully, she'll actually listen this time.  Her bitter "apology" to Quentin was annoying though.

Edited March 24, 2018 by Camera One

[CigarDoug]

On 2/6/2017 at 10:14 PM, RedHackle said:

Only just recently started this show but have been bingeing the living crap out of it. Seriously, I'm just so in love with it. Had to stop to quote Quentin:  "This house is haunted as balls, that's what." Dying.

For what it's worth, I heard about this show when it premiered on SyFy but didn't watch it. I have been binging on Netflix as well, just finished Season One. It's the best way to watch some shows, and I love it. I truly appreciate this site organizing the comments by episode, so I can read the chatter about one episode without spoiling the next. Thanks, PreviouslyTV! You are a great replacement for IMDb since they shut down their forums. I find that I like this structure better.

Speaking of spoilers, I am only a few episodes ahead myself, but for half of these comments I could make the same reply: "Just you wait". But then, all of you are several seasons ahead of me already.

Edited December 5, 2018 by CigarDoug
Clarity.

[Jynnan tonnix]

9 hours ago, CigarDoug said:

WWr what it's worth, I heard about this show when it premiered on SyFy but didn't watch it. I have been binging on Netflix as well, just finished Season One. It's the best way to watch some shows, and I love it. I truly appreciate this site organizing the comments by episode, so I can read the chatter about one episode without spoiling the next. Thanks, PreviouslyTV! You are a great replacement for IMDb since they shut down their forums. I find that I like this structure better.

Speaking of spoilers, I am only a few episodes ahead myself, but for half of these comments I could make the same reply: "Just you wait". But then, all of you are several seasons ahead of me already.

Welcome! I do love reading reactions by people who are watching the show from the start for the first time. It's a great way to keep it feeling fresh. Then again, amazingly, it feels as though so far they have been able to keep each season better than the one before. Hope you feel the same way once you get through them!