The Real O'Neals - General Discussion

[futurechemist]

I know it wouldn't have made for compelling television, but I would have liked to have seen the gay Settlers of Catan game.

[SmithW6079]

Jody was married to Pat's brother, but they got divorced.

I read that on the character's bio on ABC.com, but you'd think they'd mention it once in a while, especially since it's Pat's brother's ex-wife. Do they like her better than the brother? If his brother is divorced, I don't quite understand the angst because Eileen and Pat are getting divorced.

[truthaboutluv]

I think Kenny, living in Chicago, would be a little savvier than he is.

 

 

I think the thing with Kenny though is one, he was/is raised in a very religious household where for the longest time he tried to bury the truth about himself and two, he's still very young. So I can buy his growing pains of figuring himself out, figuring out a place where he fits in and belongs. And as he says in practically every episode, he is the only gay kid at his school (he's probably not of course but he's likely the only out one). So I think he's just trying to figure out his way being "out gay kid". And I don't think living in a suburb makes that any more difficult for a young kid, who again, grew up in such a strict Christian household. 

 

I liked the episode. I have to say though, for the first time, I was having some trouble catching all of Noah's lines. He's always done that "snarky under his breath/mumble" comments and I could always understand but last night, there were a couple of lines that made me wish I had the closed captioning on. I cracked up at Kenny's vindictive, "should have picked me..." when he outed his dad as straight. I also loved when Pat was defending his choice of the guy over Kenny and said, "I mean look at him..." and Kenny got all lustful eyes at the guy before remembering his point.

[possibilities]

I loved the Settlers of Katan reference, and I agree taht Kenny would have fit in and enjoyed himself more there than at dodgeball. I did like the end tag where the kids were dropping their dad off at "divorced dad dodgeball," though. It was totally predictable, but still funny-- the actors have great commitment and chemistry.

 

I really didn't like the pilot much, but the show has gotten better and better every episode.

 

I do hope they don't keep Kenny isolated all the time, though. There will always be fish out of water moments for any gay person, but we also get to have funny moments among ourselves; there is lots of humor and story to be had when we're NOT the only one and friendless and lacking romantic partners. I want the show to give us both kinds, as well as humor not related to Kenny Is Gay at all-- like with his mom and the book group.

 

I laughed really hard this episode. I might have been in a good mood anyway, but still-- I found it funnier than even the past episodes I liked.

 

Also, I love the older brother and the dad being 100% supportive. That's one thing that's been fun since even the first episode. It's a relief that more and more tv comedy lately is not based on family members hating each other. Even the divorcing parents are being mostly civil with each other. I think adults are funnier when they act like adults than when they are written to revert to juvenile behavior.

 

Aunt Jodi does seem shoehorned in. I think they should either write her a more convincing role or fade her away. I feel bad for the actress, having to deliver the stupidity they gave her this week.

[Rockstar99435]

Loved how easily Pat fell into the gay dodgeball game with the gay jocks. I thought Kenny was out of line in "outing" his dad as straight.

 

I thought the cop already knew he was straight, so I thought it was weird that they kicked him out of the game. A lot of gay teams/leagues let you have a few straight players so that siblings/parents/friends/etc. can support their gay family member/friend. A few* years ago, there was a huge thing in Seattle with their gay softball league because they were allowed to have a certain number of straight members, but some teams were going over the number or something. There was even a hearing where people had to testify whether they were gay or straight. (I don't remember all of the details. I didn't live in Seattle, but I would read about when I would visit my sisters.)

 

*few years= could be as many as 15. I still think the 90's were last decade.

[SmithW6079]

I thought the cop already knew he was straight, so I thought it was weird that they kicked him out of the game. A lot of gay teams/leagues let you have a few straight players so that siblings/parents/friends/etc. can support their gay family member/friend. A few* years ago, 

 

*few years= could be as many as 15. I still think the 90's were last decade.

The cop was married and then came out as gay, so his wife was divorcing him. When Pat said he was divorcing too, the cop friend may have assumed Pat was also coming out as gay, because he was in a gay coffeehouse with his gay son. 

 

I'm with you on the "few years = as many as 15" thing. Stuff I remember as only "a few years ago" turns out to be considerably longer than that.

[formerlyfreedom]

*few years= could be as many as 15. I still think the 90's were last decade.

 

Oh, yeah, so true. I start feeling really old when I do the math...

[xander874]

 

Aunt Jodi does seem shoehorned in.

I feel like she was meant to be the "friend" to Eileen but the family has so much chemistry, that she really isn't needed. I do like her though and she had some funny lines during the book club, but I wouldn't be surprised if she disappeared or became recurring if the show gets renewed. I do want to see an episode about her and Pat's brother though before she goes.

[possibilities]

I love that this show is committing to the idea that Kenny shouldn't settle for grudging tolerance. That they can do this without relying on anger, avoiding conflict, or abandoning the love between the family members is really impressive to me.

[Bobbin]

Pat's observation that it took Kenny 16 years to accept that he was gay and that his mother has only had 6 weeks to adjust to the idea should be noted by every LGBT teen who is angry and frustrated that their friends and family don't immediately adjust to their coming out.

I don't know how to acknowledge Pat kissing Kenny without trivializing it with inadequate words. Unconditional love? Btw, news flash: you usually really can hug your teenager if you simply ask first. Who knew?

Now, how to explain the blood-splattered tux to the rental shop?

[xander874]

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I don't know how to acknowledge Pat kissing Kenny without trivializing it with inadequate words. Unconditional love? 

I actually loved this moment. Pat is affectionate with his kids, which is far from the norm on many shows where the dad is some macho brute. He constantly puts his arm around the kids which I think is quite realistic for many families.

Other than that, I didn't love this episode. I thought that Kenny and Mimi were okay at the end of the pilot but maybe I'm wrong on that. And the play felt rushed. I would think R&J would require some extensive rehearsals. But totally agree Bobbin about the coming to terms thing. It's a long-term process.

[starri]

23 hours ago, possibilities said:

I love that this show is committing to the idea that Kenny shouldn't settle for grudging tolerance. That they can do this without relying on anger, avoiding conflict, or abandoning the love between the family members is really impressive to me.

Honestly, given what we know about Eileen, the distance she's come in such a short time is kind of remarkable.  And I was honestly impressed by her saying, more or less, that she'd be happy to see Kenny get married, but was sad it wouldn't be in the Church.

We've said it a million times, but it always bears repeating that the chemistry between the actors keeps the show watchable even when the writing falls down.  Shannon and Kenny humoring Jimmy about his "beard" (been there, done that) and their Rock, Paper, Scissors to decide whose guest house he'd be living in was almost enough to redeem the weaker parts.  As was Shannon's utter glee at firing off the blood cannon.

Also, I got a hearty laugh out of the drama teacher prepping to direct the play by watching Glee, and then being excited because after Kenny Graduate-d his way into the performance, the audience would have no idea what was going on...just like Glee.

[Delphi]

Fun fact,  Shannon hitting Kenny after she lost wasn't in the script.  That was the actors.  Which is just another point of how great the chemistry in this cast is. 

[iMonrey]

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Pat's observation that it took Kenny 16 years to accept that he was gay and that his mother has only had 6 weeks to adjust to the idea should be noted by every LGBT teen who is angry and frustrated that their friends and family don't immediately adjust to their coming out.

Fair point - but to be honest, you'd have to be headless to at least not suspect Kenny is gay, so it's really more about letting go of your denial than getting over your shock.

The show sometimes strikes me as disingenuous, especially WRT Kenny's school. It struck me as really odd for a teacher in a Catholic school to say "I thought there would be more gay kids." I just find it hard to believe that level of tolerance and acceptance at a religious school.

[Tiger]

i believe this episide was shown out of production order, and when it started i thought it was because they wanted to delay a weaker episode, but a third of the way through it really hits its stride.

And the Pat/Kenny talk was really good.  

[Sandman]

12 hours ago, xander874 said:

And the play felt rushed. I would think R&J would require some extensive rehearsals.

The original? Sure. This Zombie Verona version? I'm thinking it probably wouldn't require quite so many.

[iMonrey]

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 Quite a few in one order that I'm close with have family members who are LGBTQ, and they are very close to them. So not odd to me.

There's a difference between how people behave in their personal lives and what goes on in an institutionalized setting like a Catholic school. Church doctrine still considers homosexuality a sin. I honestly have no idea what the real-world consequences would be for a student attending a Catholic school who publicly came out. I strongly suspect in many cases they might be expelled. I also think a lot of teachers, clergy and fellow students would be telling them they're going to hell all the time. The casual way everyone is acting at Kenny's school is more in line with a public school today, not a Catholic school. At best I would imagine all the teachers trying to pretend like nothing happened and ignoring the situation - not saying "Oh gee I thought there'd be more gay kids" when holding auditions for the play. (I also think "Zombie Romeo and Juliet" is a highly unlikely choice for a Catholic school.)

Not trying to bash a religion here, just trying to keep it real. 

[starri]

I can think of several instances recently where out gay faculty at Catholic high schools--most of whom were quite popular--who were fired after getting married.  Much to the displeasure of students and parents too.  So, like so many things, it's selectively enforced.

[possibilities]

Isn't the current policy to "love the sinner, hate the sin" (per Pope Francis's famous "who am I to judge anyone who seeks God?")-- in which case I think Kenny without a boyfriend is probably still on the right side of the admin, and they would be courting his soul rather than giving him up as a lost cause.

But honestly, I think this business is very much handled on a local basis, with some places being much more nasty about it than others-- both in public schools and in religious ones. And for myself, I don't want to see the nasty stuff, so I'm happy enough to handwave as much friendliness as the show wants to provide.

[Big Mother]

On 4/28/2016 at 11:21 AM, Delphi said:

Fun fact,  Shannon hitting Kenny after she lost wasn't in the script.  That was the actors.  Which is just another point of how great the chemistry in this cast is. 

I could see the actors laughing there so i was wondering if it was improvised.

 

***

The one plot point that still confounds me is Pat and Eileen's "divorce". They are still eating their meals together, they are getting along, so I don't understand why they need to divorce. You don't to be "in love" at all times to make a marriage work, and staying in a non-amazing marriage for the sake of the kids is, in my opinion, preferable than starting to search around the world for a new love. It's not like either of them have someone they're madly in love with and therefore want a divorce from their current spouse. neither of them is dating or anything. They're not even officially divorced. So they're basically still married, except Dad doesn't sleep in the bedroom with Mom? and I don't really get why. There are ways to revitalize a marriage, there is counseling, there's trial separation... instead they just decided one day, 'Okay we were never really in love, this marriage has no point, so let's get divorced but for the sake of the kids, continue doing everything a family does, except sleep in the same room." It's strange.

i think the endgame is that they won't actually get divorced. That's why the show is dragging out the 'divorce.' I dunno.

[zxy556575]

The divorce is unrealistic,* especially considering how Catholic Eileen is, but it keeps Pat around and I'm glad of that. He and Eileen aren't bickering or simmering with anger all the time, which I wouldn't like in a sitcom. It also gives the writers opportunities for fraught individual dating storylines and an eventual reconciliation. I wouldn't mind watching them fall in love for "real."

 

 

* Now watch, Savage will reveal that his parents really did separate but continued to live in the same house.

Edited May 2, 2016 by lordonia

[iMonrey]

Yeah I don't get the divorce thing either. There's a whole lot of the premise that doesn't really make sense. 

Quote

And for myself, I don't want to see the nasty stuff, so I'm happy enough to handwave as much friendliness as the show wants to provide.

Agreed, I prefer they keep the tone comedic rather than go dark. That said, it probably would have serviced the plot better to have Kenny enrolled in a regular public school. Pushing the whole Catholic thing is at odds with most of what's happening on this show.

[Tiger]

i think last night's was the strongest episode yet.  The Catholic Weekend Camp was especially good, in large due to the chemistry between Galvin, Shively, and the girl playing Shannon.

[jcin617]

I just loved that Kenny's dark side is represented by Maleficent.

[iMonrey]

I don't know, I feel like the past few episodes have been pretty weak. The cast on this show is great but the writing just isn't quite there. The whole thing feels very sanitized and lacks edge. I get what they're going for here and I appreciate the whole mainstream, gay-friendly vibe it's got going on, but at the same time it feels like the scripts were run through a committee and white-washed of anything remotely offensive to middle America, which leaves the whole thing feeling very generic like any other network sitcom. 

[possibilities]

it feels like the scripts were run through a committee and white-washed of anything remotely offensive to middle America, which leaves the whole thing feeling very generic like any other network sitcom.

That's what makes it so subversive! Portraying a Wholesome Family with Enthusiastically Gay-Friendly Religious White Bread Dynamics Plus a Side Order of Gay Cultural References is exactly the juxtaposition of values I think gets us marriage equality and pushes the envelope on other civil and social protections, and it tickles my deepest dykest bones to see them pull it off. It's actually a very naughty behavior for a tv show to have. I suspect it freaks out the opposition a lot more than blatantly edgy shows that embrace profanity and reject mainstream mores. There is definitely a place for those kinds of shows, and usually I prefer them. But seeing this show create a sparkly hybrid of folksy americana and unmitigated queer makes me laugh all the way to Main Street from Lesbianville.

I actually didn't like this episode much, though. The daughter was too extremely ridiculous, and I usually enjoy the friendship between the brothers, so I didn't like seeing them at odds and out of character. The adult story also flopped for me. Seeing the parents compete over New Friend and be shitty to Aunt Jodi made me like them both less. I've preferred them as being flawed, sometimes goofy, but not outright over-the-top juvenile.

[truthaboutluv]

YMMV but I think sometimes it's much easier and lazy to be honest, to just go for the shock and offensive, in the name of being "edgy" (see: one Ryan Murphy). Do not get me wrong, I enjoy some shock and pervasive humor but at the same time, I think it can be just as difficult to be funny and subversive, while being subtle. 

Edited May 5, 2016 by truthaboutluv

[iMonrey]

I think it's the "funny" part I find particularly lacking of late. It's not that I want the show to be racier or darker - just funnier. The situations themselves - Faith Leader vs. Troublemaker, and parents fighting over a new friend - feel uninspired and spit out of a network sitcom formula machine. I keep watching because I love the cast but the writing keeps disappointing me.

[Tiger]

If the show is renewed and does get the Tue 930 as rumored, I hope they'll use that later slot to push the envelope a bit the way "black-ish" has.  

[Check Sanity]

On 5/1/2016 at 7:36 PM, Big Mother said:

The one plot point that still confounds me is Pat and Eileen's "divorce". They are still eating their meals together, they are getting along, so I don't understand why they need to divorce. You don't to be "in love" at all times to make a marriage work, and staying in a non-amazing marriage for the sake of the kids is, in my opinion, preferable than starting to search around the world for a new love. It's not like either of them have someone they're madly in love with and therefore want a divorce from their current spouse. neither of them is dating or anything. They're not even officially divorced. So they're basically still married, except Dad doesn't sleep in the bedroom with Mom? and I don't really get why. There are ways to revitalize a marriage, there is counseling, there's trial separation... instead they just decided one day, 'Okay we were never really in love, this marriage has no point, so let's get divorced but for the sake of the kids, continue doing everything a family does, except sleep in the same room." It's strange.

i think the endgame is that they won't actually get divorced. That's why the show is dragging out the 'divorce.' I dunno.

1

They said in the pilot they'd been going to marriage counselling, so they did try that and it didn't work and they landed on divorce. Currently, they are separated and "getting a divorce" so they're doing the separation stage too. The decision has been portrayed as something they've taken awhile to get to.
Personally, I think it's healthier and better for their co-parenting relationship in the long run that there isn't some love interest in the wings. Plus the stress of living a lie, of not feeling like you should be with the person you're with, is a ridiculous strain to put on one's body. I like that this show portrays an undramatic separation/divorce (which yes will probably lead to them falling in love... it *is* TV after all). Shows always present the dramatic version, and friendly/respectful break ups are pretty much never shown. Doing things this way allows for less predictable storytelling and humour, which I appreciate.

I'm still laughing while watching the show. Shannon stabbing "her hand" at the breakfast table and everyone's subsequent reactions had me in stitches. Considering I work in the comedy scene and have gotten a sort of Lorne Michaels tendency to not actually laugh at things I think are funny, for me the show works.

[mtlchick]

If you were to tell me Jay Ferguson would turn out like this, I would have paid more attention him in Bop magazine in the 90s.  Wowza. 

I am enjoying the show more than I should considering the promos were weak (P.S.  We need to stop using "Jump Around" for EVERY show that revolves an Irish Catholic family.)  While we went through a very similar comedy last year with the McCarthys, this one seems to have more heart...and well, better writing. 

[Big Mother]

I loved this episode! Less focus on the gay stuff and just the kids being kids. And their parents acting like kids....

[SmithW6079]

On 5/4/2016 at 3:14 PM, possibilities said:

I usually enjoy the friendship between the brothers, so I didn't like seeing them at odds and out of character. 

Actually, I enjoyed seeing them at odds. You can get along with your sibling and love them, and still have a rivalry. Plus, I think it showed that Kenny's got some claws when he wants/needs them.

Pat and Eileen get along too well and Jay R. Ferguson and Martha Plimpton have too much chemistry for the divorce to take permanent hold. I don't care if Dan Savage's parents divorced in real life; I want them to stay together here. I think the point of announcing their divorce in the pilot, along with Kenny's homosexuality, was that this wasn't the perfect Irish Catholic family they appeared to be.

Edited May 10, 2016 by SmithW6079

[zxy556575]

The Real Other Woman may be my favorite episode so far. So many good moments:

• The entire Project Runway/mesh storyline, including Tim Gunn and Aunt Jodi: "As Heidi Kim says, Bon Voyage!"
• Drug sniffing dog: "Oh, no! Mrs. Novich has glaucoma!"
• Eileen being unable to hack Unitarianism for more than 30 seconds, and taking the hackysack.
• Pat having dog shit on his shoes and not being able to find it.
• 20 lb bag of Costco meatballs.
• Naming the dog Brad being the only thing Jimmy wanted in life.

It didn't seem to be scripted that Jimmy slipped and fell as he was running to get to the basement to see the dog -- if not, congrats to Bebe for staying in character and not stopping the scene.

Edited May 11, 2016 by lordonia

[starri]

When Eileen gets fully onboard, she and Kenny can watch Drag Race.

I have a college friend who IS a Unitarian minister, and I honestly found that part a little offense.  How would Eileen have handled a guitar Mass?

Unfortunately for Kenny, Tim Gunn is right.  Mesh really is the new bleh.

[Tiger]

I liked Jimmy driving the cop car and Shannon looking up dirt on her teacher, but not much else.  

It's dissapointing to see them write Kenny as a complete stereotype.  Being into dudes does not equal acting like a woman.   The character, and the show, are far more interesting when Kenny is acting like a normal guy such as in last week's ep.

[starri]

What exactly what he doing that was "like a woman?"

[truthaboutluv]

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Unfortunately for Kenny, Tim Gunn is right.  Mesh really is the new bleh.

I loved that everyone ragged on Kenny's mesh shirt because seriously, yeah those were pretty bad. 

Quote

What exactly what he doing that was "like a woman?"

Confused on that one myself. 

eta: I know this is probably a total duh! to some but I honestly did not realize Shannon is played by the same actress who played the little girl in The New Normal. Especially as I might have been one of the 100 people who actually watched that show. She was awesome in that too. 

[Bobbin]

Bear in mind that the creator and the lead really are gay, so there is authenticity in the Kenny character. But also note that LGBT people represent the whole spectrum of personalities, just as non-LGBT people do. Kenny is not intended to be Everygay. Kenny is Kenny.

Not all Unitarian churches are the same, either. The one I visited some years ago was indistinguishable from my own Methodist service, except for the omission of references to Jesus, et al. It was a friend's Baptist church that had tambourines.

Loved the giant kettle of frozen Costco meatballs, another chink in Eileen's image as the perfect homemaker.

[iMonrey]

The strongest parts of the show are always the little fantasy sequences Kenny has, and I think it's amusing how often Jesus shows up in them. But it's also great that they get cameos from celebrities like Jimmy Kimmel and Tim Gunn. I've never watched Project Runway but I liked the idea it was one of the few things Kenny and his mother were able to bond over. 

I laughed at Jimmy fetching the ball but the subplot of Pat trying to get his children to spend time with him fell flat overall. The whole premise of Pat living in the basement because he and Eileen are "separated" really isn't working. Might have made more sense if he'd moved into his own place and the kids had to split their time between parents.

[Delphi]

1 hour ago, truthaboutluv said:

 

eta: I know this is probably a total duh! to some but I honestly did not realize Shannon is played by the same actress who played the little girl in The New Normal. Especially as I might have been one of the 100 people who actually watched that show. She was awesome in that too. 

That's half the reason I ended up tuning in.   I adore the New Normal and wish it was still on air.   Bebe seems to choose/get really good roles for such a young actress. 

[Tiger]

8 hours ago, Bobbin said:

Bear in mind that the creator and the lead really are gay, so there is authenticity in the Kenny character. But also note that LGBT people represent the whole spectrum of personalities, just as non-LGBT people do. Kenny is not intended to be Everygay. Kenny is Kenny.

Not all Unitarian churches are the same, either. The one I visited some years ago was indistinguishable from my own Methodist service, except for the omission of references to Jesus, et al. It was a friend's Baptist church that had tambourines.

Loved the giant kettle of frozen Costco meatballs, another chink in Eileen's image as the perfect homemaker.

I get that Kenny isnt an everygay, but it seems like we only see one type on tv: a flamer who acts like a middle-aged woman.

Itd be nice to see a bromo or just regular guy for once.  And i think Galvin is a better actor and the writing overall when Kenny acts like a normal guy who happens to be gay.  

[paulvdb]

There are regular gay guys on tv. Will on Nashville is one. And there's Josh on The Originals. Although I'm not sure he'd count as a regular guy because he's a vampire and his (now dead) boyfriend was a werewolf. But both of them never acted like stereotypical gay guys. And thinking about this, it seems that most of the regular guys are smaller roles on their shows. Of the top of my head I can't think of any that are main characters. Will on Nashville has the most screentime of the ones that I could think of.

[starri]

8 hours ago, Tiger said:

I get that Kenny isnt an everygay, but it seems like we only see one type on tv: a flamer who acts like a middle-aged woman.

I still don't understand what you mean by that.

[xander874]

Quote

The whole premise of Pat living in the basement because he and Eileen are "separated" really isn't working

And they said in this episode they were divorced. I thought they just separated. Maybe they meant going through a divorce but it wasn't clear.

[DearEvette]

11 hours ago, Tiger said:

I get that Kenny isnt an everygay, but it seems like we only see one type on tv: a flamer who acts like a middle-aged woman.

Itd be nice to see a bromo or just regular guy for once.  And i think Galvin is a better actor and the writing overall when Kenny acts like a normal guy who happens to be gay.  

 

Have you seen Happy Endings?  Adam Pally played a bro-dude gay guy in that show.  His best friend Brad, played by Damon Wayans, was a total metrosexual  ("Daddy likes a deep tuck!") who was sometimes coded as more stereotypical gay even though he was hetero.

Anyhoo, I am totally loving this show and am really liking how ABC is curating its comedy line-up to be show all different types of families (ethnicity/religion etc.) but funnily enough so many of the themes in the various shows episodes could literally be swapped out because they are universal.

Kenny is a really great emotional center, but I am really enjoying how they are developing the personalities of all the kids and even Eileen. Pat is the one who I think they are lagging on.  I love Jay R. Ferguson and have since he was on Mad Men so I want them to give him something to sink his teeth into.

[truthaboutluv]

YMMV but I think the point that's been hammered from the beginning is that Kenny is a 16-year old boy who just came out and is trying to figure himself out. In other words, he doesn't even really know what "type" of gay guy he is, hence the coffee house trip with his dad, hoping to find other people he could relate to, the gay dodgeball, wanting to experiment with his wardrobe this episode, etc.

I think it's obvious that what's being said is that Kenny is too effeminate at times for some people - I guess this episode with the Project Runway watching and all but I personally don't agree and I think Kenny so far seems like a fairly well rounded kid who again, is just trying to figure himself out because he is after all only 16.

[DrSparkles]

I laughed like an 11-yo at the scenes in the popo car! I mean, come on!!! Who hasn't wanted to do that with their dad, especially in a popo car!!!!!!

[Delphi]

For the record,  I don't think Kenny is too effeminate.   I also don't think that would be a fair thing to accuse a sixteen year old of being.   That being said,  if we're putting things on a spectrum, Kenny is no where near as over the top as the "not gay" gay boy at his school.   He seems to be a fairly normal dude he just came out of the closet.   Watching Runway doesn't change that.   Wearing a hideous mesh top doesn't change that. 

From the numerous other gay characters that others have mentioned, there is Curtis Holt on Arrow and there's also Connor and Oliver from HtGAWM, also on ABC.  So I think the network as a whole is doing not only a good job at showing diversity,  but also of showing diversity within minority groups,  which is awesome. 

[Scott]

On May 11, 2016 at 3:03 AM, starri said:

How would Eileen have handled a guitar Mass?

The same way any sane person would:  by smashing the guitar and walking out, muttering something about calling the bishop.  :-)