S06.E11: Knots Untie

[EllenC]

There were gooey walkers stuck in the wheels, so I believe it is safe to assume they ran some over, which (whom) got stuck in the wheels and caused the accident.

 

NOBODY ON THIS SHOW CAN DRIVE. Nothing was said about a hit-and-run vehicle, so it seemed as if the Hilltoppers couldn't avoid a walker or two in the street (by this point in the ZA)? I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that they had a flat tire or something. BUT NOBODY ON THIS SHOW CAN DRIVE. Except maybe Sasha. Who should get in a car and drive far away before Abe returns. 

 

I keep hearing "Jesus Take the Wheel" in my head, ugh.

 

It bugs me how both Abe's and Daryl's hair is so vividly colored vs. the facial hair. Nitpick I guess. I was trying but failing to feel Abe's angst. Clearly without a "Who's Jesus/Gregory?" he wasn't himself. 

Edited March 1, 2016 by EllenC

[Pete Martell]

The show has always written Daryl very consistently, but I'm not buying him these last few episodes.  Sure, at first he refused to conform to the million dollar houses, sitting on the front porch and field dressing whatever he killed.  But then he'd warmed up to Aaron and boyfriend (who seem to be MIA), eating dinner with them, going on runs, etc.  He was separating himself from Rick and all about trusting and bringing in new people.  It's like the writers forgot about all of that.  He's back to hating and suspecting everyone, and even Rick was more merciful with Jesus.  For the first time, I think the show has lost interest in Daryl, and that doesn't bode well.

 

I think the main reason he was like that with Jesus was so that they could show a contrast with Rick, who now "understood" the error of his ways. Beyond that, he was probably angry because Jesus got the drop on him.

 

I didn't really see any indication that he has a problem with Denise. She's full-on and is the type of person he would have shut out for a long time, and would have seen as patronizing and stupid (telling him not to eat roadkill when it's probably the main reason he and his family survived), but he took her well wishes and food without much fuss.

[rogueprinzess]

I think the main reason he was like that with Jesus was so that they could show a contrast with Rick, who now "understood" the error of his ways. Beyond that, he was probably angry because Jesus got the drop on him.

 

^^ Also, let's not forget that before Daryl got back to Alexandria from the zombie run (heh), he'd met those ppl in the woods who betrayed him and stole his bike, pretty much leaving him for dead by taking his weapon and wheels after he saved their friend. Then, almost immediately after that he (and Sasha and Abe) run into Negan's people, who were prepared to kill them over a fuel truck and weapons they were already surrendering. Daryl's disposition didn't just change overnight; he had been burned twice within a very short period of time; a stinging reminder that many of the remaining survivors aren't good people or are only looking out for number one. He started out with trust issues, and this just compounded them all over again. 

 

So to me, his being suspicious of/weary of Jesus and the hilltop people was warranted. It's a bit like burning your hand really bad and then being a bit gunshy around the stove for a while after. And I think Daryl actually really likes Denise in a sisterly kinda way. Outside of Carol and Rick, he's always been snarky towards people who try to show concern for him. It's not easy for him to accept affection given his past.

Edited March 1, 2016 by rogueprinzess

[peach]

I think he asked Michonne if she wanted to go against Negan mostly because he sees her as an equal partner. I think that is also the reason he asked Lori what she wanted to do - but her response was more of a passive-aggressive, "You're the man, you're in charge."

 

Yep.  Because then whatever happened it would always be his fault. 

I love how when Michonne disagrees with Rick, it's about the decision, not him as a person.  Unlike Lori's constant underlying disapproval.  Richonne 4evah.

[lulee]

Didn't they say Carol was not in Alexandria at the moment?

If I recall correctly, Daryl only said, "She's not here." To refer to the cookie baker I took that as "don't even think about involving my heretofore platonic girl, Jesus."

[TexasChic]

Quote:

And I think Daryl actually really likes Denise in a sisterly kinda way. Outside of Carol and Rick, he's always been snarky towards people who try to show concern for him. It's not easy for him to accept affection given his past.

Quote:

I didn't really see any indication that he has a problem with Denise. She's full-on and is the type of person he would have shut out for a long time, and would have seen as patronizing and stupid (telling him not to eat roadkill when it's probably the main reason he and his family survived), but he took her well wishes and food without much fuss.

~~~~~~

I saw it as he was like, "Yeah, whatever, that looks pretty gross," until she said he reminded her of someone. Then he realized it went a bit deeper than some crappy oat cake. They've all lost someone, and I think you'd have to be pretty cold hearted not to want to try to help a fellow survivor feel better in that capacity if you could. Besides, he's obviously not unfeeling, he's just unaccustomed to showing his feelings. He realized it meant something to her, so he played along for her benefit.

Edited March 1, 2016 by TexasChic

[TexasChic]

Did anyone else notice how both Jesus and Gregory mentioned having sorghum? I thought that was pretty funny after Rick and Daryl's blank look when Eugene mentioned it.

[ShadowSixx]

NOBODY ON THIS SHOW CAN DRIVE. Nothing was said about a hit-and-run vehicle, so it seemed as if the Hilltoppers couldn't avoid a walker or two in the street (by this point in the ZA)? I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that they had a flat tire or something. BUT NOBODY ON THIS SHOW CAN DRIVE. Except maybe Sasha. Who should get in a car and drive far away before Abe returns.

 

You saying this just gave me flashbacks to the worst driving ever on t.v. You're right nobody can drive worth a damn. Did the ZA take their driving abilities away from them? "Allstate are you in good hands?"

[TexasChic]

I'm rewatching:

Rick: If you hear me whistle, shoot him.

Maggie (very matter of factly): I will.

Such trust amongst our CDB crew... I love it.

Edited March 1, 2016 by TexasChic

[LeeMoon]

I was surprised that Daryl spoke out and outlined the deal. Seemed very out of character for him to take the lead in that situation.

 

In the past he has always been either avoiding any mutual decision making or quietly telling Rick what he thought but ultimately always following Rick.

 

I'm not sure what it means, if anything.

[TexasChic]

Daryl took charge real quick when Rick went Cray Cray after Lori died. And Rick has been asking for input even since the prison. I think that combined with Gregory being just such a complete and total dick was enough to get him to speak up.

Or it could be foreshadowing for when Rick dies and Daryl takes the lead! Mwahaha!

Edited March 1, 2016 by TexasChic

[LeeMoon]

That's true. I mean, asking them to wash was sure to piss off Daryl. 

 

(I wanted to put a smiley there at the end, but I can't find any. I'm new here.)

 

 

[TexasChic]

Edited March 2, 2016 by TexasChic

[AngelaHunter]

And I think Daryl actually really likes Denise in a sisterly kinda way.

 

I think he's totally bemused by her. As she prattles on, he looks at her like she's a new and amusing species he's found. I doubt any woman he ever knew spoke the way she does and certainly not to him. He seems to be a bit captivated by her. I don't mean romantically, but he thinks her ways are cute, charming.

[TexasChic]

Plus, she's their only doctor, which means they put her on a bit of a pedestal.

Heh.

http://gfycat.com/EnergeticSplendidGentoopenguin#?speed=0.5

Edited March 1, 2016 by TexasChic

[tennisgurl]

I do love the gangs pitch on why they should be trusted to get rid of Negan. "We`ve had run ins with people before. And they're all dead now". 

 

Plus Rick being like "You know what our group is super good at? Confrontation! We are wonderful at that! It solves pretty much all of our problems"! 

[Nashville]

But just like Alexandria it makes no sense that they don't know how to fight, especially with Ninja Jesus amongst them.

  

Maybe they had fighters, but all of them are dead now...?

 

No, its not.  I distinctly heard female murmuring during that scene so I check the CC: this morning and he was hearing Sasha's voice.  I still have no idea why what Sasha said meant anything about anything but its was Sasha.

I got that from later posts, but it still doesn't yet resolve anything. Was Abraham seeing Sasha's words as a relationship affirmation (go for Sasha), or a rejection (stay with Rosita)? We can guess, but we don't know - yet.

[lulee]

Maybe they had fighters, but all of them are dead now...?

Seems quite plausible that Negan and co., who've obviously been terrorizing them for awhile, took out some of the likely resistance, as a show of strength and to keep them docile.

[candall]

I'm watching Law & Order: Insomniac and there's Xander Berkeley, defending the guy who gave fake flu vaccine to children, circa 2005.  Gregory's been ethically questionable for a long, long time.

[pasdetrois]

 

I keep hearing "Jesus Take the Wheel" in my head, ugh.

I keep having flashbacks to Bret Michael's bad bandana-and-wig get-up in Rock of Love. Especially after Jesus removed his hat.

 

The show tried hard to invoke a Gone With the Wind class analogy, with the grand old southern mansion, a snooty overlord, and talk of earning one's keep.

 

I love the little scenes between Denise and Daryl. He's often completely detached from emotions, always ready to spring into action against the forces of evil, yet he engages with Denise as if he's her smart ass big brother.

 

 

[Bad Example]

Quote:

And I think Daryl actually really likes Denise in a sisterly kinda way. Outside of Carol and Rick, he's always been snarky towards people who try to show concern for him. It's not easy for him to accept affection given his past.

Quote:

I didn't really see any indication that he has a problem with Denise. She's full-on and is the type of person he would have shut out for a long time, and would have seen as patronizing and stupid (telling him not to eat roadkill when it's probably the main reason he and his family survived), but he took her well wishes and food without much fuss.

~~~~~~

I saw it as he was like, "Yeah, whatever, that looks pretty gross," until she said he reminded her of someone. Then he realized it went a bit deeper than some crappy oat cake. They've all lost someone, and I think you'd have to be pretty cold hearted not to want to try to help a fellow survivor feel better in that capacity if you could. Besides, he's obviously not unfeeling, he's just unaccustomed to showing his feelings. He realized it meant something to her, so he played along for her benefit.

 

I think another aspect of all of this, that goes along with the whole field-dress-on-the-front-porch, is Daryl's deep-seated "not quite good enough" feeling. Gross health food?  That's for rich people.  His progress in this area seems to wax and wane.  

 

As for all being terrible drivers... well, yes.  Then again, there are never any other cars on the road, so I think it's pretty easy to stop paying much attention.

[nachomama]

I don't even get what the point is of going after their "guy", Ethan is dead, that was his brother, Ethan dead, who amongst Hilltop cared enough to go back and get him? Take their "stuff and thangs" Rick and be gone with you. If they were holding Houdini Jesus, that would be a valuable asset to lose, but Negan can't hold him either, he's slippery.

 

I think Darryl very grudingly likes the family dynamic. He's not warm and huggy but he was very fond of lil ass-kicker and he's extremely protective of the group. He's uncomfortable when anyone points it out but yes, I think he likes Denise and likes that she thought of him. He was even open enough to appreciate Aaron and the boyfriend, which coming from the family that produced racist, homophobic Merle is huge, HYOOOOOGE!

[GodsBeloved]

-

Love Xander.  He can play the sympathy card too. He started out as a tool on 24 but  you ended up rooting for him in the end.   Of course it took a deadly dose of radiation, but still....  I was thrilled to see him.  It was completely unexpected.  This is A+ casting for me.

Yes! Mason saved Jack's ass LOL

[The Mighty Peanut]

NOBODY ON THIS SHOW CAN DRIVE. Nothing was said about a hit-and-run vehicle, so it seemed as if the Hilltoppers couldn't avoid a walker or two in the street (by this point in the ZA)? I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that they had a flat tire or something. BUT NOBODY ON THIS SHOW CAN DRIVE. Except maybe Sasha. 

 

I thought the same thing. As soon as Rick took the wheel I knew they were fucked. He fucked up the truck full of food. He fucked up that trailer that got shot at. He fucked up Dale's RV. He fucked up at least one Prius. I don't care if he's not technically at the wheel and there are mitigating circumstances. He's a curse to vehicles.

 

 

ETA: I guess there was one worse driver.

 

Edited March 1, 2016 by The Mighty Peanut

[lulee]

In fairness to Lori (did I just type that?), do we have evidence that she was generally a bad driver or just horrifically bad on one occasion?

Although if there had still been cell phones, I'm betting she would have texted while driving.

[peach]

Although if there had still been cell phones, I'm betting she would have texted while driving.

 

Lol.  Yes, and her text would be criticizing someone else while she was doing it.

[TattleTeeny]

It bugs me how both Abe's and Daryl's hair is so vividly colored vs. the facial hair. Nitpick I guess. I was trying but failing to feel Abe's angst. Clearly without a "Who's Jesus/Gregory?" he wasn't himself.

 

I've seen this to be true a lot in real life (i.e., on non-TV men who aren't using dye or professional upkeep)--in fact, almost every guy I know has a beard that isn't the same color as his head hair. My BF has dark brown hair and a much lighter brown beard. My cousin has the same color hair as Abraham (I KNOW, HAHA!) and a paler, blonder beard. My friend has dark auburn hair and a lighter, more orange beard (why do I know all the redheads?). 

Edited March 1, 2016 by TattleTeeny

[The Mighty Peanut]

Lol.  Yes, and her text would be criticizing someone else while she was doing it.

 

The text she sent while driving would be criticizing someone else for texting while driving.

[Tarasme]

What do you mean? It was explained reasonably well considering none of our heroes were actually there to see how the walker pit got started.....going with what they observed, a group of survivors set up camp down in the gravel pit (why there? Who knows, doesnt matter, they thought it was super safe) then used the semi's to block off both entrances to the pit. Then either someone in that group died and turned, got bit then turned or a random walker  tumbled in and got bitey. That small group all turned and started doing what walkers love to do more than anything (besides biting), MOANING. That noise drew other walkers who tumbled in and on and on. No mystery there, nothing nefarious either. Just one unlucky group that picked a shitty place to hunker down.

What was unexplained to me is why the tankers suddenly found their way into the pit-- and stopped preventing the herd from moving toward Alexandria. All of the coin-ink-y-dinks that caused Alexandria to fall prey to the Wolves attack were awfully convenient.

[diebartdie]

Watch the beginning of the season again, it is explained in the first episode.

[peach]

The text she sent while driving would be criticizing someone else for texting while driving.

Also, a group text asking WHERE'S CARL?  I thought he was in the back seat, but he's gone.

Edited March 1, 2016 by peach

[diebartdie]

I've been thinking about Daryl's demand of the cow. I hope he was thinking tio take it home, slaughter it for food and the hide and maybe some glue but I suspect the writers were going for another magical nannnygoat who made milk in the absence of either a babygoat or a billy goat to create a baby goat. Like I said after the Cheeseman episode, goats (mammals) are not chickens. Chickens do not require roosters to make eggs. Mammals require reproduction to create milk. Daryl ought to have demanded 1/2 the flock instead of one almost worthless cow. In fact, unless you slaughtered it as soon as you got it to ASZ, it would be worse that worthless due to it requiring a lot of it's own feed putting it in direct competition with the starving humans.

[RustbeltWriter]

Did anyone else notice how both Jesus and Gregory mentioned having sorghum? I thought that was pretty funny after Rick and Daryl's blank look when Eugene mentioned it.

 

I half expected Rick to look at Gregory all puzzled and say "Sorghum? We deal in lead, mister."

[peach]

I read something about how the Hilltoppers are so proud of their spears, and they have blacksmith there, and it proves how self-sufficient they are.  I think it kinda proves they have no ammunition.  Keep the spears below the parapet, and hold guns on the watchtower.  Even ASZ knew the visual of a gun in the tower was a good effect.  I laughed when the guy with a spear ordered CDB to put down their guns.  Um...or what?

I half expected Rick to look at Gregory all puzzled and say "Sorghum? We deal in lead, mister."

Hahaha!

[Watcher0363]

I still think it's kind of weird how Maggie was stressed out that her not getting enough food, fresh veggies, etc. may cause harm to the baby, but doesn't seem to think that going off to do battle with Negan and his gang may indeed prove much more harmful to a fetus.

 

 

But, but, but. It's a fight with the promise of blood, gun fire and  bat shit crazy Rick kills!

[riverheightsnancy]

Hey guys, ya know, when I was watching TWD this past Sunday, I really was excited and intrigued to watch the next season of FTWD. It looks really good!  Hee (I saw a commercial yesterday and they aren't even attempting walker makeup, the walkers look like regular people!). 

[LeeMoon]

I've been thinking about Daryl's demand of the cow. I hope he was thinking tio take it home, slaughter it for food and the hide and maybe some glue but I suspect the writers were going for another magical nannnygoat who made milk in the absence of either a babygoat or a billy goat to create a baby goat. Like I said after the Cheeseman episode, goats (mammals) are not chickens. Chickens do not require roosters to make eggs. Mammals require reproduction to create milk. Daryl ought to have demanded 1/2 the flock instead of one almost worthless cow. In fact, unless you slaughtered it as soon as you got it to ASZ, it would be worse that worthless due to it requiring a lot of it's own feed putting it in direct competition with the starving humans.

 

lol I haven't thought about that. It was funny that he threw the cow in there, I thought we were going to get endless memes about Daryl and his new love.

 

Daryl loves hunting and eating meat, maybe he was thinking about available meat now that he doesn't have his crossbow and can't easily go out and hunt.

 

Speaking of which, I really wish they gave him his crossbow back. Or at least address the fact he lost it.

[catrox14]

I don't get why Daryl and Carol don't go on mission to get him another crossbow. Surely there is an REI or something within driving distance. I have wondered if Marvel pitched a fit about Daryl looking a bit too much like Hawkeye. And since Daryl is not a comic character he's not as well protected by Kirkman et al. So take away his archery but keep Daryl.

[ShadowSixx]

You guys mentioning Maggie ready to go in to infiltrate Negan's camp. I'm not even sure Maggie is ready. I seen her shoot the people at Woodbury and defend the prison against the Governor but when it came to Terminus when the group was killing them, Maggie along with Tyreese was just looking on in shock. I wouldn't have let her watch Jesus when Rick asked her to, who knows if she would have shot him if he tried anything. We'll see what she does this time around.

[Nutjob]

Maggie might not even be going... we don't know that she'll be among the group heading to Negan's camp. It's very possible she'll stay behind at Alexandria and let some of the others go instead.

[Watcher0363]

Hey guys, ya know, when I was watching TWD this past Sunday, I really was excited and intrigued to watch the next season of FTWD. It looks really good!  Hee (I saw a commercial yesterday and they aren't even attempting walker makeup, the walkers look like regular people!). 

Fear the Walking Dead is shot the way the executives wanted Frank to shoot the Walking Dead. All hat and no cattle. Now let's all hail the Darabont! 

[diebartdie]

Darabont did some amazing, awesome things in the first season, I especially love his casting but let's be real. As meandering as some of Gimple's stories might seem, Gimple is the man with the true plan. All hail hippy Gimple!

[ghoulina]

Yep.  Because then whatever happened it would always be his fault.

I love how when Michonne disagrees with Rick, it's about the decision, not him as a person.  Unlike Lori's constant underlying disapproval.  Richonne 4evah.

 

I also think it shows how far Rick has come as a person. When Lori was around, he was still very insecure about what the fuck he was doing leading this band of random people around. He NEEDED her validation, because he didn't necessarily trust himself. With Michonne, he is confident enough in himself that he can ask her opinion and be receptive to her disagreeing. It's not going to crush him. He trusts her and I definitely think they make a great time, romance aside. 

 

I was surprised that Daryl spoke out and outlined the deal. Seemed very out of character for him to take the lead in that situation.

In the past he has always been either avoiding any mutual decision making or quietly telling Rick what he thought but ultimately always following Rick.

I'm not sure what it means, if anything.

 

I think he just REALLY wanted that cow. 

 

Also, a group text asking WHERE'S CARL?  I thought he was in the back seat, but he's gone

 

She wouldn't group text. She'd just send it directly to Dale. 

 

Then she'd try to text a nudie pic to Shane, but accidentally send it to Rick. Oooops!

 

(and I liked Lori, but she is fun to pick on.)

 

Hey guys, ya know, when I was watching TWD this past Sunday, I really was excited and intrigued to watch the next season of FTWD. It looks really good!  Hee (I saw a commercial yesterday and they aren't even attempting walker makeup, the walkers look like regular people!).

 

I think you may need to look at the flowers. 

[peach]

I also think it shows how far Rick has come as a person. When Lori was around, he was still very insecure about what the fuck he was doing leading this band of random people around. He NEEDED her validation, because he didn't necessarily trust himself. With Michonne, he is confident enough in himself that he can ask her opinion and be receptive to her disagreeing. It's not going to crush him. He trusts her and I definitely think they make a great time, romance aside.

 

Lori was that type of deeply passive aggressive person who has perfected the art of "withholding."   So even when she "agreed" with him or pretended it was up to him, she always withheld actual approval.  Or love, frankly.  If he needed her validation it's because he could never get it from her, as she could never be pleased.  But I definitely agree he desperately needed it when he was trying to figure out how to lead this pack of ingrates.  She was about as supportive as wet cardboard.

 

The only time she ever said anything decent was when she scolded the rest of the group for looking to him for answers and then being a jerk about it, which was her own general attitude the rest of the time.  Takes one to know one, I guess.  MV of course, but that's my Lori loathing opinion.  lol  I will just never get over her reaction to him killing Shane.

 

Rick knows if Michonne is disagreeing with him, it's probably because he's wrong.  And she will agree when he's right.  And even if he's wrong, she is still there for him.  One of my favorite Richonne things was when he couldn't bring himself to go inside ASZ, which she totally understood, and she coaxed him through it. 

 

ETA:  What I mean to say is that "when Lori was around" she made Rick feel insecure.  He, and the group, are better off without their dysfunction affecting the group dynamic.  Michonne makes it stronger.  And I think you're right about how far he's come as a person, and is starting fresh now.  Like his wedding ring being in the dish.  He's a new man.

Edited March 1, 2016 by peach

[ShadowSixx]

That's why it was funny when Daryl called Lori "Olive Oyl" when she told him that he needed to go out and find Rick, Glenn, & Hershel. She was so passive aggressive with Rick and a hypocrite with the group and I was so happy when Andrea called her out on it. Lori took that "First Lady" comment that Carol laid on her and ran with it. The way she treated Shane as well, she's part of the reason the man went insane. I say she's 95% of the reason Shane went insane. She purposely fucked with his telling him to stay away from her and Carl and when Shane is dismissive towards Carl she gets mad at Shane and asks him why he's treating Carl that way. She's always going up to Shane to start some conversation with him and even told him that if Judith was his, he wasn't going to be in Judith's life. 

 

At least Rick upgraded to Michonne, because when you leave a relationship and move on you always upgrade, never downgrade. Just about anyone from a Lori is an upgrade. Rick can have sex with a zombie and it'll be an upgrade.

[The Mighty Peanut]

Hey guys, ya know, when I was watching TWD this past Sunday, I really was excited and intrigued to watch the next season of FTWD. It looks really good!  Hee (I saw a commercial yesterday and they aren't even attempting walker makeup, the walkers look like regular people!). 

 

Was it these people? They're the two leads. I know they have the blank look of the undead but they're actually just very stupid.

 

Edited March 1, 2016 by The Mighty Peanut

[LeeMoon]

In the first seasons I got the impression that Rick was an absentee dad. From the very first season it was mentioned by Lori and Shane a few times, like when Lori and Shane argued with Rick about going back to help Merle, or Rick wanting to leave after his son was shot. Even after Lori's death, it was Hershel that called him out on running away from problems instead of staying and dealing with them.

 

Although it was less noticeable than Lori's passive-aggressive behavior, Rick might not have been the perfect husband and father.

 

Edit to add - Shane had a better relationship with Carl in the beginning, as well.

Edited March 1, 2016 by LeeMoon

[peach]

He was just trying to get away from Lori.  Even then she follows him and wrecks on an open road. Because she is the worst.

 it was mentioned by Lori and Shane a few times,

  Conflict of interest.

[AngelaHunter]

I think he just REALLY wanted that cow.

 

Did he just want to make a demand? Get something "to boot" in the deal that was made?  Was  he craving a steak?  What good is a cow without a bull? Where would they put it to graze all day? A milk cow is no good without equipment to pasturize the milk and even if they did, human babies can't drink cow's milk straight up.

 

I have to wonder what Morgan is going to think about them going after Negan, because Morgan doesn't want to kill.

 

I kind of doubt Rick gives a shit about Morgan's pacifism credo. He always has the option of leaving if he's so opposed to CDB's methods. He'd be no loss.

[ShadowSixx]

Before the outbreak Lori was bitching to her friend how Rick doesn't get mad or yell or some crap like that when they're arguing. Didn't Rick say to Shane before the outbreak that Lori is always mad at him or something like that.