S02.E08: The Edge of Mystery / S02.E09: A Little Song and Dance

[shapeshifter]

Ahem,....shapeshifter, you think you won't be getting a warning??  For being a nuisance, and a miscreant..

 

click here...

Whew!

I agree that I don't care for back-to-back episodes.  I realise that I can always just save it for later, but that's a long time to be sitting in front of the TV.

Hulu has them separately, but these threads go by broadcast, hence my tardiness to this table.

Wilkes himself said that he was not corrupted by Zero Matter. He made the choice to do what he did. He was desperate to save his life, but he chose to hold a gun on Peggy, help to steal nukes and set off those nukes. He wasn't forced to do it by Whitney because he could have stayed in his containment chamber until Stark found another solution.

I interpreted that Wilkes primarily felt he was a danger to those he loved and all of society, and that he was just trying to make Peggy abandon him so she wouldn't get hurt, and that his plan was to sacrifice himself for those he loved and the world. In other words, I see him as the good guy version of shifty

Thompson, who I see as more gray that totally dark side.

It really was.  The combination of acting and writing caught me off guard, especially when he got to the ridiculous couple argument things like promising to chew his food more quietly and get a Burmese mountain dog.

 

Lotte Verbeek as Ana Jarvis is also doing well.  She's as inherently likable as Peggy without being at all like her.

 

Some good moments in these.

I expect to see him sporting the blue tie she knitted in the finale. Or is that not a promise he can bear to keep?

Even though Whitney survived Jarvis' gun shot wound to the abdomen, I would like her to learn that now neither she nor Ana can have children, but likely Whitney didn't want them anyway, so it would bring no sense of retribution.

[DeLurker]

Ahem,....shapeshifter, you think you won't be getting a warning??  For being a nuisance, and a miscreant..

 

click here...

I thought shapeshifter would be Rick Rolled....

Edited February 27, 2016 by DeLurker

[supposebly]

I like this show for its fluffiness and humor although I think it can get quite a bit quippy at times which I found rather irritating.

 

Still, for most characters, there is a slight undercurrent of issues, like Peggy's bullheaded stubbornness that gets people who follow her everywhere injured. I liked Sousa last season but I like even more that he was shown to make mistakes and isn't all perfect when it comes to how he deals with his relationships. Jarvis who is used to Howard's "adventures" while learning that Peggy's aren't quite without repercussions. Johnson is really interesting, not evil but incredibly opportunistic and not at all stupid. I'm glad they didn't get rid of him.

 

I can't stand Wilkes. I never trusted him and I find the actor incredibly bland. Doesn't help that he was partially conceived to be part of a triangle. Ugh.

 

Absolutely adore our female villains, I don't really want them dead, just a bit more willing to help Peggy in her "adventures".

[tennisgurl]

The dance sequence gave me serious flashbacks to The Name Game in the second season of American Horror Story. And I mean that as a big compliment. 

[Netfoot]

I thought shapeshifter would be Rick Rolled....

 

Which would be preferable to being goatse'd.  (ugh!)

Edited February 27, 2016 by Netfoot

[StarBrand]

The song-and dance number was a little jarring. I'm not that much of a fan of musicals in general, I guess.

 

The conversation between Jarvis and Peggy in the desert was the one of the best dramatics of the season. When Jarvis said that everyone keeps dying around her (very low blow BTW), she did NOT react the way I thought she would. Instead, she told Jarvis the exact truth-he's been treating these "adventures" as fun, a distraction, and when it becomes all too real, he lashes out at the person he was "begging" to tag along with, which he CHOSE to keep hanging around with. I didn't hear Peggy out right disagreeing with him though, (although she kind of referred to that with there being "consequences" and paying for them a hundred times over.

Also, I've also seen James D'Arcy in Broadchurch, and it was jolt to see him playing a much different character here. I know they're the same actor, but very much two different people. I also recommend those who have not seen it to watch-although (and I'm sure I'm not giving anything away) you may want to shower after watching, because there is definitely.......ick....

[LilJen]

So. . . nobody else thought, "Gee, aren't Ana and Jarvis kind of old to be thinking about having kids anyway?" It *was* sad and touching, but I thought both of them were old-ish for the idea of starting a family, especially back in those days. And I figured there wasn't a lot of reliable birth control back then, so that perhaps there were problems already, since they haven't already had kids?

 

[Texasmom1970]

I love this show for many reasons. After watching these two episodes I can honestly say I love Peggy and Jarvis even more. Their relationship is wonderful. Haley and James acted their asses off! Brilliant all around.

[Trini]

A little disappointed that Thompson hasn't been punched in the face at all this season.

[shapeshifter]

So. . . nobody else thought, "Gee, aren't Ana and Jarvis kind of old to be thinking about having kids anyway?" It *was* sad and touching, but I thought both of them were old-ish for the idea of starting a family, especially back in those days. And I figured there wasn't a lot of reliable birth control back then, so that perhaps there were problems already, since they haven't already had kids?

I guess we might now assume they are playing 10 years younger than their actual ages?

[Sandman]

A little disappointed that Thompson hasn't been punched in the face at all this season.

I have high hopes for the season finale. Resoundingly high.

[aradia22]

Normally I'm like... yay, musical number but... let's just say this cast is not populated with the best singers and/or dancers.

[Coxfires]

I was glad to see Jarvis be more than just the comic relief in these two episodes. Not that I don't appreciate JDA's comedic timing, but I sometimes felt they made him more cartoonish this season than the last, and missed the natural comedy that flowed from Peggy and Jarvis' banter.

I know this is definitely Peggy's show, and she was right in pointing out that he begged her to bring him on her missions, but I'd like to see her at one point acknowledging what he did for her, not necessarily in terms of pure help on the missions, but as a true supporter. From day one he recognized and praised her value, showed her admiration, respect and understanding without an ounce of romantic afterthought, even more so than Howard did (and him giving her steve's blood at the end of S1 only reinforced that feeling to me). That is why their argument in the desert was so heartbreaking for me to watch. I'm glad they made up at the end of it

I understand that they wanted to show Peggy moving on, but the love triangle is the aspect I care the least about, and it somewhat took away from the dynamic those two have. 

[JustaPerson]

I too was disappointed that Steve wasn't in her dream! They could have found a body double, covered his face in shadow (or not show his head at all) and had him hold his hand out to her for a dance. 

Edited March 5, 2016 by JustaPerson

[Zuleikha]

Just an episode earlier, Sousa said he'd be willing to do a lot to be able to walk again without that crutch.

I HATED that line. I give them credit for having a character who has a mobility issue, but they're having him approach it in an unnecessarily ableist way. Last season, he was being overlooked because of his mobility and the injury seemed to be fresh, so it felt real and okay for him to have some negativity around it. And I get that in real life, people who lose a level of mobility that they're used to may never stop mourning that loss. But this isn't real life, and Sousa in this season is head of an SSR branch and being played as physically gifted as any other agent. IMHO, the writers should take the character to the full level of modeling acceptance rather than portraying the image of people with mobility issues as always feeling less than/limited by it.

 

So. . . nobody else thought, "Gee, aren't Ana and Jarvis kind of old to be thinking about having kids anyway?"

I did. I found it the whole story confusing. Plus, Ana and Jarvis have had a stable life as a married couple for multiple years--possibly even as much as a decade by this point... if they wanted kids, why on earth wouldn't they have already had them?

 

A little disappointed that Thompson hasn't been punched in the face at all this season.

After this episode, I'm feeling that Thompson is the smartest and best character. Sousa is a horrible boss--Semberley may occasionally be annoying, but he always has a point that Sousa is taking him for granted and not making Semberley feel valued for his contribution and skills. Sousa also bungled everything with Vernon, which exposed his officers to additional risks (heck, for all we know those two officers folded so quickly in the desert because they didn't want to do the assassination mission for Vernon, but desperately needed their jobs/paycheck/feared for their own lives). Also, the show may have forgotten about Sousa ghosting Peggy between s1 and s2 and then treating Violet poorly, but I haven't! I loved last season's Peggy, but this season's Peggy seems like self-righteous muscle. Why was she disrespecting Wilkes' choice to stay in the waste facility because he didn't feel safe to leave? Why was she so mad at Jarvis for shooting Whitney when Whitney had just shot Ana and Whitney was at the time completely incapable of being arrested or held? Why was Wilkes pulling a gun on her so horrible but it was okay for her to pull a gun on Thompson in order to stop him from saving innocent lives/possibly the world just because she disagreed with his methods? Especially because again, at the time, Peggy had no alternative at all, much less a viable one. Peggy's strong sense of morality is admirable in many ways, but it makes her a horrible agent. If she's not prepared to occasionally sacrifice someone for the greater good, she should not be a governmental secret agent spy. She should be a doctor or social worker or some other profession that saves individual lives with no compromises.

 

Thompson is the only one who developed any viable plans other than the scientists. He's the only one who understands that the more one penetrates into the halls of power, the more one has to work with morally compromised people, and the only one who has the skills to do it. 

[rejnel]

 

 

QUOTE

As soon as Enver showed up and started singing, I thought "Gene Kelly biopic."  If nothing else, the costuming was spot-on.

 

Inspired. Yes oh yes please!!!

 

It was offensive to have Sousa toss away his crutch, period. Not redeemed by how delightful Enver was in that song and dance number. But I do want to see him do lots more of everything--same with Atwell, D'Arcy, and a couple more from this show!

[anna0852]

Well the whole thing was taking place in Peggy's subconscious. I figured he tossed away the crutch because she doesn't really *see* it. Sousa is Sousa, in Peggy's head and she really doesn't think of him as disabled.

[Zuleikha]

I figured he tossed away the crutch because she doesn't really *see* it. Sousa is Sousa, in Peggy's head and she really doesn't think of him as disabled.

That would make sense if he didn't have the crutch in the first place, but I don't think it made sense for him tossing it away.

[Taryn74]

Add me to the ones who assumed the M. Carter file was about Peggy's brother, not Peggy.  In fact, I was confused for a minute when Jack was threatening her with it but he was talking about her and not her brother.  (I always forget that Peggy is a nickname for Margaret.)  I think that Jack believes the file is about Peggy, and Red believes the file is about Peggy (and doesn't give a rat's ass if it's true or not), but we will eventually find out it's not only about Michael, it's the truth and Peggy's going to have some hard facts to deal with regarding her beloved brother.

 

We shall see.

 

I am enjoying the heck out of this season, btw.  I enjoyed watching last season, but it was always more of a fluff/filler show for me that I didn't feel like I needed to keep up with that much.  This season it has shot up into "don't miss" territory.

[KaleyFirefly]

Loved the song and dance number! LOVED IT.

Clearly I have a type, I've also loved low-rated musicals Galavant and Crazy Ex-Girlfriend.

 

So much double-crossing, reversals, and fake-outs in these two episodes.

I totally loved "Galavant"!!

[KaleyFirefly]

I loved the song and dance scene! And Sousa's singing...and he looked good too. And Peggy's red dress and long hair...has she ever looked better?

 

I want ALL of Peggy's dresses from this show.

 

I have a total crush on Jarvis...he is the man and so wonderful. The way he looks at Anna...

 

I hope this show comes back for a season 3. I love this show so much!

 

 

[KaleyFirefly]

Using the crutch on the correct side would help.  (Pro tip:  on the arm opposite the injured leg.)

YES! Thank you! I have seen this on show many shows, the cane or crutch being used on the wrong side! As a former physical therapy professional, this always bothers me!

[Sandman]

I HATED that line. I give them credit for having a character who has a mobility issue, but they're having him approach it in an unnecessarily ableist way. Last season, he was being overlooked because of his mobility and the injury seemed to be fresh, so it felt real and okay for him to have some negativity around it. And I get that in real life, people who lose a level of mobility that they're used to may never stop mourning that loss. But this isn't real life, and Sousa in this season is head of an SSR branch and being played as physically gifted as any other agent. IMHO, the writers should take the character to the full level of modeling acceptance rather than portraying the image of people with mobility issues as always feeling less than/limited by it.

 

As someone with mobility issues of my own, I wasn't sure at first how I felt about Daniel's tossing away the crutch in the dream sequence (except I know I didn't see it as Peggy's subconsciously "perfecting" him).

 

I didn't find the line about what he wouldn't give to have his leg back offensive, and I think making him more accepting and society less "ableist" (itself a modern perspective) would have felt anachronistic. I think the experience of the loss of mobility from traumatic injury (particularly as consequence of war?) must be different than mobility limitations that are congenital or present from birth. I don't judge Sousa by modern standards of how people with disability are, can be or should be integrated in society, especially given how recent his loss of mobility is, as a war injury. (I have much more trouble, not that anyone asked, with science fiction shows purportedly set in the future where 20th century assumptions about disability still appear unquestioned -- I'm looking at you, ST: TNG!)

 

It also occurs to me, regarding the throwing away of the crutch, that dancing in movies has always been, on some level, a metaphor for sex.

Edited March 11, 2016 by Sandman

[Julia]

It also occurs to me, regarding the throwing away of the crutch, that dancing in movies has always been, on some level, a metaphor for sex.

 

That was how I took it. I don't think Peggy sees Sousa as being less than whole with an injured leg.

[kattahj]

So. . . nobody else thought, "Gee, aren't Ana and Jarvis kind of old to be thinking about having kids anyway?" It *was* sad and touching, but I thought both of them were old-ish for the idea of starting a family, especially back in those days.

 

 

Lotte Verbeek is the same age as Hayley Atwell (a couple of months younger, even). And she might not be playing her own exact age. There's a point about the Jarvises having been married for quite some time, but if they had postponed having children for whatever reason, it would certainly not have been too late for them!

[stealinghome]

Lotte Verbeek is the same age as Hayley Atwell (a couple of months younger, even). And she might not be playing her own exact age. There's a point about the Jarvises having been married for quite some time, but if they had postponed having children for whatever reason, it would certainly not have been too late for them!

Yeah, I think it's not so much about whether they wanted/had ever planned on having kids or whether it was particularly feasible anymore as much as that the possibility was taken away from them. Even if you had planned on not having kids, having the CHOICE taken away from you is awful and traumatic.

[AudienceofOne]

That was awesome. I totally loved both episodes, especially Wilkes attempting some kind of redemption.

 

I have mixed feelings about the dream sequence at the beginning of A Little Song And Dance.  On its own, it was adorable and it let us see Angie again, but it otherwise felt out of place with the episode.  It was just such an odd moment to have a musical number about Peggy's love triangle.

 

I agree. It's like the writers thought having a number like that would be kind of amazing (and it was) but didn't consider where it fit into the episodes overall. I found it jarring that I was suddenly stuck in Peggy's subconscious and it was all about which man to choose.

 

I don't think so. Thompson referenced June 1944 as the date of the supposed incident. Michael's death was reported in 1940. And it was Michael's death that drove Peggy into the field. Their activities wouldn't have overlapped.

 If Michael's dead. If he was recruited to MI6 it's possible he's still alive. I'd say that's what they're going for in a possible Season 3.