S04.E14: Code Of Silence

[TrueMyth]

That's true. I guess I just don't mind Curtis creating things like the stimulator and I don't think it takes anything away from Felicity when he does -- as opposed to when they have Felicity go to him for computer help, which is nonsensical.

Yes. I know they needed the lab scene to establish Curtis's chip and motivate him to expedite it, but there are other ways to run that scene: Have Felicity using the lab for its "processing power" or some such when Curtis walks in and gets all panicky and protective, explaining how he's working on a surprise for her. Much of the dialogue stays the same, no problem. They talk for log enough for the screen saver to trigger, because that was a fantastic beat.

The only other bit of awkward triggering the dramatic moment when Felicity gets the blueprints... But that could also be modified slightly with 1) a direct to tablet alert Felicity rigs when the HD is reconstructed or 2) a beat at the end of the first scene when Felicity asks Curtis to keep an eye on the recovery THAT SHE SET UP and text her the info immediately because she is so busy with debate, engagement party, CEO stuff.

It's not that hard.

[Artsda]

This is stupid. I don't even get the writing, was this episode aired out of sequence from the last one?

 

Oliver is telling Thea about how he has to keep the secret. Thea's being a moron idiot agreeing with him. Yet Oliver knows it's no secret. He knows a very angry and threatening revenge Malcolm knows about Oliver's kid. So why the heck is Oliver acting like this secret is still salvageable to keep? The second he knew Malcolm knew he should have ran to Felicity. 

[BkWurm1]

Once again, it was an ok episode, kind of forgettable. They seemed to take the easy way out throughout majority of it though. I was BEYOND disappointed that we didn't see the debate and Oliver just sooo easily won it, so boring. 

 

The only really good things that stood out to me were the Laurel/Quentin, Quentin/Donna, and Oliver/Thea scenes. Other then that it did very little to wow me. Sucks we didn't get that Laurel/Donna getting to know each other scene.

I too felt cheated that there was no Donna and Laurel bonding scene.  I need my comic relief.  Side note, PB was really rocking the black t-shirt.  Yum, yum. 

 

I can't believe how RUSHED this debate was, it is the most disappointing aspect of the episode for me. We saw NOTHING of it, DDs wife was wasted, and to have her clearly lose as if she did a horrible job? Then why would they bring her in, in the first place?

I guess they expected the place to blow up and so she didn't bother to prep? 

 

Poor Laurel is never invited to parties, is she.

I assumed she just hadn't arrived yet. 

 

The part that bugged me was Felicity taking the laptop to Curtis so he could recover the blueprints. ESPECIALLY after she reminded Oliver -- and the audience -- that this was the first thing she ever did on the show.

 

They did say it was a server power issue but that just brings up the problem of why the server size in the lair sucks so badly that she had to go the PTech. 

I thought the opening stunt sequence was actually cool. Tho there was a lot of stupid with it. Was that suppose to be stealth? Laurel standing on a well lit platform. Thea right behind them. Olivers bike jump.

I was ok with the stunts for entertainment but yeah not stealthy.  Also, not sure how stealthy it was for Felicity to hang in the theater and chit chat with Speedy and Black Canary and the rest. 

 

It was more than a little painful with BC standing on the marquee.  There were people just across the street.  There is no way that they didn't see her.  I'd hope that Ruve' had good enough security to have noticed as well. 

[Xenith22]

I stopped paying attention to the flashbacks years ago. I give you kudos for actually knowing names. These characters in the flashbacks might as well be wearing red shirts as far as I care.

You give me too much credit.  Actually I had forgotten Taiana's actual character name and thus just resorted to the nickname I recall being used most in the previous episode thread (had to google to get the real name)...and I had forgotten Ryder's name until someone else commented about him.

 

Speaking of the flashbacks, I think we did finally start to reach the point where they may be somewhat relevant again...unfortunately.  This episode introduced the flashback theme of becoming a monster to deal with bad people.  In the present Oliver will have viewed himself as too soft and thus why someone he cares about will have died...and so now he has to lose himself to the darkness again and become a killer again.  So how much do you want to bet we will get to start S5 with a dark broody Oliver yet again undoing all the character growth of the last couple seasons?

[theacostov]

I didn't love the episode and I didn't hate it. My head does hurt from the falling anvils. 

 

So they threw Thea under the stupidity bus. At least it wasn't Diggle (that was my biggest fear because Delicity cannot be ruined by this crap too). Thea's argument makes sense for why not to have the kid in his life. Not why he should keep it from Felicity. Surprisingly not mad at this story anymore, because it's so dumb. Actually hurts my intelligence. 

 

Kinda looking forward to her giving the ring back... does that make me a bad Olicity fan? At least once it's over we can rebuild. I hope we get lots if UST.

 

I skipped the flashbacks. Doubt I missed anything, 

 

Mr Terrific strikes again. I like Curtis, mostly because of Echo but yeah could he be anymore Terrific? I'm glad Felicity will be able to walk again but yeah what was the point? 

 

I think I'm becoming slowly apathetic to this show. I was just whatever about everything because it's all so plot driven to get to where they need to be; characters be damned. The actors are keeping me here tbh. 

[bijoux]

I mildly appreciate that SA tried to make Oliver sympathetic, but nope. He can fuck off. I eagerly await Felicity dumping him. (And then I'll be sad until their inevitable reunion.) I suppose Thea's as good as any one to support the lie, though apinknightmare made a very good point in the Spoiler thread that Thea's really not one to talk about keeping lies for good reasons based on the way she reacted to her own family lie.

 

 

I see that William gets his dad's smarts. Chilling with the enemy with no concern that anything is wrong. Can the Darhk's keep him?

 

I suppose Thea was just happy to be the first in the know. I can't even blame her for being the one who had to carry the stupid torch this time. She's taking one for the team. Whatever.

 

William is definitely Oliver's, that's Ollie's resourcefulness right there. Plays with one strange man in his room, follows another to a strange city. I see a deserted island for the next generation if he's supposed to develop even the most basic survival instincts.

 

Wow, Reiter's that dude with a scary crush. And oh, Poppy just got a seat on the Oliver, kill bus.

 

I'm kind of surprised that Negret was slated for this one. I suppose it was because of Oliver/Thea and Felicity/Donna. I really have to give credit where credit is due and say that the way they developed Felicity and Donna's relationship from last season is wonderful. And Felicity in a Star Labs shirt in the bedroom. Cuteness.

[BkWurm1]

I think the ennui for this plot line has already set in. 

 

If this stupid BMD wasn't waiting to explode I probably would have found it more enjoyable.  Instead I too often found myself stepping back and examining every good moment and thinking, oh, well, that's the last one of those or that's going away or yep, painful irony.  After they fix this (and please do it as quickly as Felicity's spine) then I think I'll be able to go back and get far more pleasure but I was waiting the whole time for someone to announce the truth about William.  I wish I'd known I could have had the whole episode rather than have to brace for the explosion. 

 

Oh Thea.  Oddly, I think I'm almost glad it was Thea saying he's doing the right thing.  Clearly Moira deeply warped their understanding of secrets, promises and reasons for keeping them.  MG is so pathetic in his attempts to keep anyone from pointing out the obvious solution. If there was any excuse not to tell Felicity, this would have been the time to explain it to the audience.  But nope.  Oliver has to keep on lying to Felicity even though he's already broken his promise with Barry, Malcolm and Thea.  I don't care if they figured it out on their own.  He didn't deny or lie about it.  He's supposed to keep it a secret, that's what he's agreed to. 

 

Secret's out man.  How the hell can Oliver be nonchalant about Malcolm fricken' Merlyn knowing, but still work to make sure he keeps it from his fiancé who has already proved for four years she will keep his secrets and have his back even at the expense of her own safety?  This is so fucked up.  There is no way I can make this make sense and I've tried hard.  

[La Dee Da]

Never have I missed Moira more than when Donna was gleefully extolling the virtues of "pin the junk on the hunk" as an engagement party activity!

Malcolm was at the HIVE Board of Directors meeting ... I wonder if the season ends with him taking over HIVE and becoming next season's big bad? It would fit with the "him" in the flash forward.

I found it odd that Darkh went after Quentin directly instead of attacking his loved ones, say, Laurel, for example. Hmmmm ....

I can see where Thea was coming from, but letting your soon to be wife know that you have a kid doesn't put that kind in anymore danger then  her not knowing. Unless she has a big mouth and can't be trusted but Felicity is neither of those so it doesn't make sense.

This is the problem with them deviating from the "promise" of the crossover. If the show stuck to that approach, the rationale remains Oliver making an impossible choice to get to know his son - still a lie, but one they could try to spin as a flawed but noble at its roots motive (please note I said try - I still think this storyline is duuuuuuumb). By switching it to a lie to protect his child, they're actually making it worse rather than providing a more "palatable" justification. How does keeping William's identity a secret from Felicity and the rest of the team keep him safe? Particularly when William can be found through five minutes of googling (gee, maybe someone could take care of the paper trail for Oliver!) and the least trustworthy person on the planet knows who he is and has a motive to act on that information? As Primal Slayer said, it reads as Oliver not trusting Felicity and TeamArrow, that they are ultimately the danger to William. All they've done is make the case for Felicity kicking him out super, super strong. And it's not comparable to the Donna-Quentin situation so those anvils missed me by a couple of miles.

Gahhhhhh...anyway, Felicity's strong clothing run continues and the glitter scene was cute.

[theacostov]

There is no way I can make this make sense and I've tried hard.  

 

Don't try. You're killing your brain cells. The stupidity is off the charts with this story line. 

[BkWurm1]

This episode introduced the flashback theme of becoming a monster to deal with bad people.  In the present Oliver will have viewed himself as too soft and thus why someone he cares about will have died...and so now he has to lose himself to the darkness again and become a killer again.  So how much do you want to bet we will get to start S5 with a dark broody Oliver yet again undoing all the character growth of the last couple seasons?

 

I think it's actually going to go the other way.  We have Poppy in the past rewarding Oliver for murder with a kiss on the cheek and in the FF we have Felicity demanding Oliver kill that son of a bitch.  But if Oliver is afraid doing so will turn him into a monster, would Felicity push him to ignore that worry and kill anyway?  I don't think it would matter how much she hated the bastard, she wouldn't be the one that makes Oliver a monster.  I just don't believe that. 

 

I mean, there has to be some reason why they were so excited to have Poppy in the past.  They said they were only able to do it because Oliver was with Felicity in the present.  There has to be something more to the FB than just the exact same storyline.  (minus the unbalance power between thenm and him killing her brother) 

Edited February 18, 2016 by BkWurm1

[lemotomato]

Watching this episode via the clips on Olicity Queen's youtube channel made it infinitely more palatable. Whatever happens next, we'll always have the glitterbomb. (And the throwback to 103. And the handholding, and the kisses. Two kisses in this episode! They're really giving moments to sustain Olicity fans through the long winter/cruel spring)

 

So the show finally has Oliver verbalize why he's keeping the kid a secret from Felicity-- must keep him safe!--  and then they promptly void that reason by the end of the episode by having him kidnapped.

 

I think that the show was aiming for "irony", but missed and landed in "just plain stupid". Oliver keeping the secret because he thought it kept the kid safe, but then caving in and telling Felicity at the end of the episode, only for it to be too late to stop the kid from getting abducted? That's irony. What actually happened tonight was just stupid.

 

Oh, and so much for that promise Oliver made at the end of 411 to find a cure for Felicity's paralysis. Not that he even had time to do anything of the sort, what with being too busy "running back and forth to Central City", saving Thea for the 100th time, and running for mayor. And now he's off the hook! Thanks, Curtis! 

Edited February 18, 2016 by lemotomato

[bijoux]

Never have I missed Moira more than when Donna was gleefully extolling the virtues of "pin the junk on the hunk" as an engagement party activity!

Malcolm was at the HIVE Board of Directors meeting ... I wonder if the season ends with him taking over HIVE and becoming next season's big bad? It would fit with the "him" in the flash forward.

 

Oh, it would have been amazing to see Moira there for that. I think she would have borne it. After all, I think Oliver's cool handling of glitter and hot pink feathers is all learnt from Moira.

 

I've been convinced that Malcolm is gunning to take over HIVE at some point since he went to Darhk. And when that goes kaboom like the League, next target - ARGUS. Also, I think this was the best use of Malcolm since the crossover. He was simultaneously terrified and turned on after Darhk's transatlantic take down. Which is a beat I feel JB is known to play when Malcolm is opposite Moira and Felicity, so this was interesting.

 

Speaking of ARGUS, what did Dig mumble about it and Lyla? Please tell me she's running the show.

[ComicFan777]

I find it laughable thinking about how SA early on in the season had teased that we get to see an entirely different side of Oliver in the mid-season hinting at daddy!Oliver.  All I can see now is that daddy!Oliver is making the worst decisions left and right, seemingly worse than he ever did in the past - without any logic at all.  And as far as honesty goes, I think FB Ollie might be panning out to be more honest than daddy!Oliver.  I really feel bad for William because he is really going to have learn street smarts elsewhere - definitely not from his parents, despite having a superhero for a dad.

Edited February 18, 2016 by ComicFan777

[Jediknight]

So, it looks like Felicity will be eventually be cured by a microchip Curtis created with Palmer Tec.  If things go to hell here, he should jet over to Central City and join STAR Labs, because he's rivaling Cisco over who can pull out impressive feats of technology out of their asses.

If things go to hell in Star City, every company in the world would be trying to recruit Curtis.  And they wouldn't send a recruiter to do it, it would be the CEO.  The guy made that battery, and developed a cure for paralysis.  Hell, Bruce Wayne and Lex Luthor would get in a bidding war for him.

[looptab]

Did Oliver pinch Felicity during the slowcooker scene? LOL (Also, am I misremembering or that happened some other time recently?)

[Velocity23]

So 5 months have passed since the premiere. Almost didnt catch it when Laura Hoffman said she has waited for this moment for 5 months. So 4x15-4x18 is gonna be about that last month till the death.

[bijoux]

Alex will probably turn out to be evil. It's really suspicious how his mom's surgery just happened to be the same night that the debate with Ruve was happening in a theater that was set to be blown up.

 

One can only hope.

 

Some really adorable Olicity moments (which, even though I wanted to smack Oliver, I still swooned at because Stephen Amell and Emily Bett Rickards play these two idiots in love beautifully):

The glitter bomb moment

When they walk into the loft and find it transformed. Chuckled at how Oliver Oliver squeezed Felicity's shoulder when she said they should have hired Slade Wilson as decorator. That whole exchange with Donna is cute and funny. Charlotte Ross sure can sell ditzy very well.

Felicity reminiscing about how she and Oliver met. Oliver's smile is too cute.

 

 

 

"Oliver, I need you." The authoritative way Felicity said this made me shiver.

The way Felicity says, "Meeee" referring to definitely 1 voter in Oliver's camp.

 

All of these were way adorable. Still a boring episode. Nothing paid off.

 

• The VOTW team was lame. One guy didn't even get to speak at all, the other two got five lines between them.
• No debate and Oliver apparently crushed Ruve after Damien's boasting forehand. I bet their buddies at HIVE are laughing themselves silly over that. 
• Oliver and Thea's converation was the writers' version of parental, Because I say so. No, the plot and Thea's quick acceptance and championing of an unknown woman make no sense, but trust us, because we need to move on.
• Dig back in the field with his helmet after it got dislodged easily and looks dinged in some places.

 

I think they might have set up Felicity being a bit more forgiving of the lie in this ep. She told her mom: "You need to return that love with a bit of trust" when talking about Quentin keeping secrets. But then again, since these writers don't remember anything their characters said in the past (e.g. Thea), it could mean nothing at all.

 

Also, did Laurel get grazed by the nails? Or did she knock her head on something. I may be kinda hoping she got a blood clot that could strike anytime soon.

 

Yeah, it was the nails that got Laurel. She went to help Thea who was dangling by a chain and the demolition woman started to shoot nails.

 

I don't know about Felicity being that forgiving. I could see it if Oliver managed to keep it a total secret. But the fact of the matter is that Oliver now knows of three other people knowing and is not letting Felicity in on it. Something I felt really pissed her off in the crossover was Oliver going to Barry and not her. He was chosing someone else tto put his faith in and I think that really cut her.

[AudienceofOne]

Do you think BABYGATE is going to be over soon? My head hurts and I'm not drinking at the moment so am feeling every anvil.

 

I stopped paying attention to the flashbacks years ago. I give you kudos for actually knowing names. These characters in the flashbacks might as well be wearing red shirts as far as I care.

The personality of the woman of bad accents and dead brothers changes every episode too. This time she's 110% pro-murder and thinks being a monster is a'okay. Which I'm pretty sure is a reversal of last week. I thought last season's flashbacks were bad. These are painful.

 

I didn't think they could dumb down Oliver anymore than they have in season 3 and then this second half of the season happen. The stupidest superhero on TV right now. That is all. 

You think he's dumber than Barry "I know we're here on a fast, precision mission to rescue your daughter from Zoom but let's not actually do that right now" Allen? The subscriber to the school of "Iris can't know because she's Iris". Really? Because Oliver's not that dumb. I mean, he's no genius. But he's not Barry Allen levels of dumb.

 

Once again this episode gave us three thugs who were apparently too much for Team Arrow. Lucky no bad guys carried nail guns before! Those are apparently SUPER effective.

 

And yet... this is still better than last season. That's saying something.

Edited February 18, 2016 by AudienceofOne

[BkWurm1]

Speaking of ARGUS, what did Dig mumble about it and Lyla? Please tell me she's running the show.

 

Yep, Lyla is in charge at Argus which was why Dig had to go, he was on Daddy duty.  Does that mean Uncle Andy was babysitting?

[bijoux]

Yep, Lyla is in charge at Argus which was why Dig had to go, he was on Daddy duty.  Does that mean Uncle Andy was babysitting?

 

And the angels weep with joy. Thank you.

 

I refuse to entertain that bit about Andy. Sara's at ARGUS nightcare centre - to which Lyla apparently had access even when she wasn't working for them - until Dig picks her up.

[BkWurm1]

From the News thread

AVClub's review for Code of Silence: Arrow struggles to make sense of its wonkiest plotline

 

"The other possibility is that Arrow is planning a narrative swerve, with Felicity being far more understanding in this timeline than she was in the previous one. Certainly, “Code Of Silence” advances a whole bunch of arguments that really, really look like attempts to let Oliver off the hook for keeping William’s existence a secret. Felicity’s chat with Donna about how she needs to trust Lance does no one any favors, as the show throws out the internal logic of those characters and their relationship to serve the show’s larger needs. As Donna made clear to Lance in the campaign office, her time with Felicity’s father has given her a perfectly tuned bullshit detector, and she’s not about to let someone lie his way into hurting her once again. Given all that, it’s strange that Donna wouldn’t push back at all when Felicity suggests Lance might have a good reason to keep things from her, and it’s Donna, not Lance, who needs to show more trust. Felicity takes onboard what Donna has to say, shows some initial support and comfort for her heartbroken mom, and then tells her the man who won’t be honest with her knows best. That’s, to put it mildly, not a great message!"
 

I wondered about this myself. Felicity sure had some weird POV, and I don't know whether that was because she knew the reason why Lance was lying or because she'll be more understanding than we expect. Anyway, this is a very good read.

I assumed it was because it really was to protect her mom.  Still, it was interesting that Donna still didn't reach out to Quentin.  Quentin still had to come clean before she forgave him.  Then she did wholeheartedly, but Felicity is the one that gave Lance his way back in.  Donna stuck to her guns even though Felicity advised her to give Lance the benefit of some trust. 

 

Still, I don't think giving Oliver more trust will solve what he did. 

I refuse to entertain that bit about Andy. Sara's at ARGUS nightcare centre - to which Lyla apparently had access even when she wasn't working for them - until Dig picks her up.

 

Ha, ha!  I don't really think that Andy was watching Sara but I'm still not sure he's not under house arrest at Diggle's house. 

[bijoux]

Ha, ha!  I don't really think that Andy was watching Sara but I'm still not sure he's not under house arrest at Diggle's house. 

 

Poor Andy would have to be sleeping in the cupboard then. Which I don't think actually prevents the show from doing it since they aren't alwayss familiar with the notions of space and time. It's just me holding onto hope that Dig and Lyla aren't that harebrained to have Andy at their home around the clokc. He should be chilling in a plush ARGUS cell with all the commodities and get a home cooked meal at their place once a week for the foreseeable future.

[Midnight Lullaby]

I can't believe what I just watched.

Thea has been the one character to always hate lies. Do the writers think we suffer from short term memory loss and don't remember Thea feeling betrayed by her mom and brother when they didn't tell her about MM being her father? And didn't she leave SC at the end of S2 because she felt everyone betrayed her? She has always demanded the truth for herself and she is supporting Oliver lying to Felicity because?

Also is Felicity a super villain and I failed to notice? Because that would be the reason for being so worried about her knowing about William..I mean Oliver doesn't mind if MM knows, but telling Felicity would put him in danger.

Also why is Oliver's kid so stupid? Doesn't he understand he was kidnapped? I'm baffled.

Felicity is going to walk again and I'm happy about that because there was no reason whatsoever to put her in a wheelchair in the first place. Well, propping Curtis and now that he invented the cure we are all done.

[bijoux]

Also why is Oliver's kid so stupid? 

 

I think you kind of answered yourself here. I honestly have no doubt that 10-year-old Ollie would have been just as clueless in this situation.

[kes0704]

I thought the episode was okay, but I'm not sure if I think that because I've set the bar so low that anything mildly entertaining is acceptable. I really miss the days when I was excited to watch rather than filled with dread for what might be coming.

As usual I fast forwarded the flashbacks, but weirdly only scenes including Poppy. I don't know what exactly irks me about her but she really adds nothing to flashback island for me. Also, I feel kind of bad saying this but I still don't care about the kid.

I think one of the reasons for this is that we haven't seen or heard much, if anything, about him in five episodes. A brief scene in 408 and a vague reference by Oliver of going "back and forth to Central City" (that fans had to seek clarification from MG to confirm what that was even meant to imply) isn't enough for me to be invested in his welfare*.

I will say that Oliver really needs to tell Felicity about his son as soon as possible, if only because the poor kid has idiots for parents and is desperately in need of some sound parenting and a talk about "stranger danger" (though he probably thought DD was just another random "friend of mommy's").

*Dear Universe: To be clear, I'm in no way projecting any desire to see the kid or his mother on a regular and/or semi-regular basis in the future. Witness protection now and a reunion in the series finale will be more than acceptable. Please and thank you :)

[johntfs]

 

I will say that Oliver really needs to tell Felicity about his son as soon as possible, if only because the poor kid has idiots for parents and is desperately in need of some sound parenting and a talk about "stranger danger" (though he probably thought DD was just another random "friend of mommy's").

 

Or Darkh cast a mind control/suggestion spell to make him more cooperative.  Or the kid is quietly playing along until Nolan, er, Oliver can rescue him.

[apinknightmare]

Also why is Oliver's kid so stupid? Doesn't he understand he was kidnapped? I'm baffled.

I wrote this before as a joke, but it's probably true. World's best mother Samantha, by allowing William's father to introduce himself as "a friend," and letting Oliver come around basically whenever he wants to has opened this kid up to thinking that anyone who introduces himself as her friend is also trustworthy. And historically she's allowed her "friends" to meet and play with him without her being around, so there's no reason he'd think DD coming up to him without his mother around would be weird. Add to the fact that DD also seems to have treated him well, and the fact that he's Oliver's kid so he probably has two, maybe three brain cells to rub together...it's the perfect storm for a kidnapping victim!

Edited February 18, 2016 by apinknightmare

[Sasha]

I will say that Oliver really needs to tell Felicity about his son as soon as possible, if only because the poor kid has idiots for parents and is desperately in need of some sound parenting and a talk about "stranger danger" (though he probably thought DD was just another random "friend of mommy's").

Since I hate everything about the baby drama, I'm gonna assume mommy has lots of male friends coming around and William has lots of uncles leaving mommy cash on the nightstand. She did have a pretty nice house for a single mom. Too harsh? Nope, bitch is ruining my Olicity. And I can't hate too much on Oliver because I do want Felicity to forgive him after he has really suffered.

Also this show is never gonna make me believe that after Oliver "died" Moria would not have taken her beloved son's child away from his stupid ass mother. Her grandchild and her dead husband's too? The last male Queen? Please, I don't think so. She would have had Samantha in court and declared an unfit mother before the death certificates had dried!

[cambridgeguy]

Why does everyone think this chip will actually work without any setbacks or side effects?  It's an untested piece of technology. 

 

Felicity not being involved makes sense if you want to apply a realistic time scale to the show.  Between Overwatching, normal CEO duties, physical therapy, wedding planning, and hanging out with her high maintenance mom I find it hard to believe she has time to sleep, let alone developing the greatest medical advancement in a generation.

 

I'll assume that William doesn't watch the news (hey, this random guy who likes to hang out with me is running for mayor of a major city!) but given Oliver's playboy past a lot of people should recognize him on sight AND the paparazzi would hound him.  How is he pulling off these secret visits without anyone taking a picture? 

[dtissagirl]

They did say it was a server power issue but that just brings up the problem of why the server size in the lair sucks so badly that she had to go the PTech.

 

Yeah, I know they explained why Felicity was delegating the laptop to Curtis, and I understand that the plot needed Felicity at the debate. But even so -- the fact that they have to actively write lines to explain why Felicity isn't the one doing the main computer discovery bit of the episode is problematic.

 

@TrueMyth's post coming up with alternatives at the top of this page makes it even more glaring that the writers had to think about how to take away Felicity's narrative role within the team and give it to Curtis.

[bijoux]

Oliver's bashful smile at the end of the laptop scene gets me even more than his first one. This parallel is an added bonus.

 

 

 

 

 

Source

 

 

Adorable. As was Felicity clutching Oliver's suit pocket to get a grip on herself while she was interacting with Laura Hoffmann. Why would they need two slow cookers anyhow? What is this madness?

[tv echo]

I am just so completely disgusted by both Oliver and Thea that I find it hard to focus on or enjoy any other aspect of this episode. 

 

Ugh!  The Queen siblings should just marry each other in an incestuous wedding and stay away from everyone else.  Then they should get themselves sterilized to keep their stupid, selfish genes from reproducing into another generation.

 

Sorry to be so harsh but as Thea kept talking and encouraging Oliver to continue lying to Felicity, I just kept seeing MG's face superimposed over WH's face - and got angrier and angrier.  And when Oliver thanked Thea - I wanted to slap that self-satisfied expression off his face!  I haven't disliked Oliver this much since Season 1 (before Diggle and Felicity made him more appealing).

Edited February 18, 2016 by tv echo

[Sasha]

Where was Laura Hoffman's husband? Maybe he is in her slow cooker? Maybe she can be the next baddie cause wanna be Sith Lord Darhk sucks and his wife can't even beat brain trust Oliver Queen in a debate!

Please stop with all the sweet Olicity gifs! I gotta keep my hate going to survive this breakup.

Edited February 18, 2016 by Sasha

[way2interested]

Adorable. As was Felicity clutching Oliver's suit pocket to get a grip on herself while she was interacting with Laura Hoffmann. Why would they need two slow cookers anyhow? What is this madness?

My favorite is Felicity wincing after her comment probably after Oliver pinches her to stop sassing at Laura Hoffman. Oliver must really want that extra slow cooker or at least another friend he can talk domestic stuff with.

[apinknightmare]

Why would they need two slow cookers anyhow? What is this madness?

I have two! One small, one large-one's programmable, one isn't. Good 'ol Laura has probably schooled Oliver on the virtues of both.

[benteen]

The chip that Curtis was developing reminded me of an old Marvel storyline where Tony Stark was shot and paralyzed by an ex-girlfriend.  I believe he too was able to walk again when they insert a chip into his spine.

 

So long, evil henchman!  He was funny at times.  I laughed at an exchange he had with Oliver earlier in the season where Oliver suggested he try another tactic for getting information from the prisoner.  His response was "What would you suggest?  Harsh language?"

Edited February 18, 2016 by benteen

[Chaser]

Oliver only gave Thea bit of info about the Kid. He didn't mention that others (Like super bad MM) knew of his existence and that he had been making trips back to see the Kid. It kind of blows her whole argument of keeping the kid safe out of the water.

I think they wouldn't be able to write the scene they wanted with all the info on the table so they did a lot of editing. I'm assuming the visits to the kid are only going to be relevant to Olivers relationship with Felicity, so she is the only to bring them up. It's incomplete storytelling and it makes them all look stupid

I found the whole Hoffman appearance funny. SA trying to keep a staightface a few times at the party was the best part. Felicity had to invite Lance so basically no Lances were invited to the engagement party. While I find that amusing as a viewer, it's odd in show. Didn't they make a big deal about the Lances being family friends seen forever? They underlined friends quite a lot. Plus the whole Team thing. At least at the Mayor party, they gave a reason for Laurel not to be there. Side note, it just occurred to me that Lance managed to get to both parities. So it's really Laurel. So it's odd. I'm just going to assume that Olicity knows that Laurel is still in love with Oliver so instead of party invites they send her Taylor Swift songs and pints of Rocky Road.

[TwistedandBored]

You think he's dumber than Barry "I know we're here on a fast, precision mission to rescue your daughter from Zoom but let's not actually do that right now" Allen? The subscriber to the school of "Iris can't know because she's Iris". Really? Because Oliver's not that dumb. I mean, he's no genius. But he's not Barry Allen levels of dumb.

 

Don't forget risking everyone in the city's lives just so Barry can go back to the past and decide not to save his mother. Look, you won't get an argument with me regarding how stupid and special snowflake they have made Barry. However, Barry has never seen the stuff Oliver has seen and lived through both in the past and in the present. Barry is still a naive whereas Oliver has seen the dark side and should know by now how secrets could be used against a person. I am just saying Oliver should know better. In terms of hero'ing I expect more from Oliver than Barry. Oliver actually gets called out and deals with consequences whereas Barry gets more pep-talk about how awesome he is and deals with no consequence most of the time. 

[looptab]

I found the whole Hoffman appearance funny. SA trying to keep a staightface a few times at the party was the best part. Felicity had to invite Lance so basically no Lances were invited to the engagement party. While I find that amusing as a viewer, it's odd in show. Didn't they make a big deal about the Lances being family friends seen forever? They underlined friends quite a lot. Plus the whole Team thing. At least at the Mayor party, they gave a reason for Laurel not to be there. Side note, it just occurred to me that Lance managed to get to both parities. So it's really Laurel. So it's odd. I'm just going to assume that Olicity knows that Laurel is still in love with Oliver so instead of party invites they send her Taylor Swift songs and pints of Rocky Road.

LOL. I think Donna commented on Felicity inviting Lance because she expected her to rescind his invitation, given he broke her mother's heart? I'm sure they were all invited. We didn't see Thea either at the party. In-show speaking, I'm sure Lyla was there, too, haha. 

 

The more I think about this episode, the more I get annoyed. It really wasn't that bad (IMO it was 10x better than last week's) but this BMD colors everything, and it tears it down. Remove that factor, and we'd have a fun beginning (I loved the team coordinating to follow Ruvè), Oliver+Thea, Donna being embarassing for everyone, Donna/Felicity, Oliver and Felicity being awesome,  Felicity/Quentin (missed those!), and the scene at the party with Curtis was great. All elements that make for good episodes, for me, but...THE LIE.

Edited February 18, 2016 by looptab

[KirkB]

I thought the demolition team, or whatever they were called, were pretty weak. These are the guys HIVE hires? Then again, Dark seems to be the only semi-competent person there and maybe he outsourced that day. The one thing they had going for them is their leader was Rachel Luttrell, Teyla from Stargate Atlantis.

 

And until the show tells me otherwise, I'm going to go with the head canon Dark killed Samantha and took William, letting the kid believe they are simply on a play date. Or if they want to be slightly less intense, he put a whammy on both of them.

[ComicFan777]

Regarding the bio-chip implant in the spine, that is how Oracle was able to walk again in comics.  Felicity might get some backlash for having a similar storyline again from comic fanboys. 

 

The writers could incorporate Felicity working on the chip to be perfected if it doesn't work the first time - that could be post break-up scenes at PalmerTech.  She could help with finishing it up just like she helped with the developments on Ray's suit, so not all hope is lost on that front.  I would have expected her paralysis storyline to last a bit longer since it is a big arc for her - at this point it mostly serves to prop Curtis.  Felicity has always been strong so this storyline doesn't really serve Felicity much.

Edited February 18, 2016 by ComicFan777

[Xenith22]

Also is Felicity a super villain and I failed to notice? Because that would be the reason for being so worried about her knowing about William..I mean Oliver doesn't mind if MM knows, but telling Felicity would put him in danger.

I think the question for me is...does he think Samantha is a super villain?   I mean she is a single mother who lives in another city.   How the hell would she really even know if he told Felicity? Unless he thinks Samantha is a super villain and has bugged his home and the lair with listening devices?   Or that she has hired an army of private investigators to eavesdrop on any conversation they have?  Does not compute....because he knows Felicity is more than capable of keeping an giant freaking secret for years now.   So much hate for the large amount of stupid involved here.

[benteen]

I think the question for me is...does he think Samantha is a super villain?   I mean she is a single mother who lives in another city.   How the hell would she really even know if he told Felicity? Unless he thinks Samantha is a super villain and has bugged his home and the lair with listening devices?   Or that she has hired an army of private investigators to eavesdrop on any conversation they have?  Does not compute....because he knows Felicity is more than capable of keeping an giant freaking secret for years now.   So much hate for the large amount of stupid involved here.

 

Exactly.  As far was we know, telepathy doesn't exist in the Arrow universe.  So how is it going to hurt if he tells Felicity?  Just explain the whole situation, tell her the truth and ask her not to say anything to anybody.  Case closed.

 

Malcolm knowing about William and his threat to Oliver last week should have sent red flags up immediately but Oliver apparently didn't take it seriously.

[Primetimer]

Oliver faces his first challenge, in that there's an actual opponent to campaign against.

Read the story

[tarotx]

Not that I want to see Samantha's view of things but this story would of worked better if Samantha was a living breathing character instead of a plot device. William too is just a plot point. If we got Sam's or William's side of things it might be easier to understand this story line. Pretty much it's just been hanging there because Oliver compartmentalizes and he's the only character in the know that we know. I can perhaps get that Samantha lived years taking care of William-being his only parent. Even in the best of circumstances being a single parent isn't easy. So now, though she can see that Oliver has changed, she doesn't really want her relationship with William to change. Making it known that what she says goes is believable even as she lets William have a chance to know his dad. But we don't know her to give a F about what she is feeling or thinking. Keeping it from Felicity was something the show made sure was the point. Samantha specifically said no to telling Felicity. It's definitely done as a punishment but it could have been more if Samantha had been someone we got to know. Fear of another mother is very strong in a lot of exes with children. But these kind of stories never work because we don't know the other women and by the time our story is set we don't want to know her. So now we are stuck with a story just about drama instead of character and people understanding.

 

And Thea being there for Oliver could be believable if this was about doing whatever it takes to know the child. She could have been 'ok I see why you are agreeing to Sam's Demands, Good faith to BM can be really important to development a co parent relationship in the coming years. And William knowing that you did all you could to be his father will be a strong bonding point once he's older.' Thea would be able to share some kind of point of view similar to that.  But she should be "find another way so you don't have to lie to Felicity".  But by the time Oliver and her would have time to think of ways, it would be too late cause Darhk has William. These writers really are dumb not to be true to these characters.

 

Other than that the episode was pretty good. I mean I rolled my eyes a billion times but I know this episode will be rewatchable once the BMD and the death has passed. Well as long as the death's not Diggle, Thea or Donna.

[KirkB]

The whole lie paints Oliver in this weird light. I'm not sure what the show runners are going for. They have Samantha insist that if he wants to be a part of his kid's life he can't tell anyone about him. Okay. Weird, but I can see why she might do that, especially considering Oliver is a far worse and more dangerous potential parent than she even realizes. Oliver comes backs and doesn't tell anyone about William, as agreed, even though he could tell Thea, Felicity, Diggle, Laurel, Quentin, and even Lyla without Samantha ever finding out. I think this is supposed to set Oliver as honorable or something because he's keeping his word to Samantha but he's doing it by lying to everyone in his life, which is pretty heinous. So what does that make Oliver? Or more to the point, since the show runners are doing it, what is it they are trying to saying about Oliver, or want us to believe about him? Oliver lies, for the right reasons, I guess, even though they also time and again have the whole thing blow up in his face.

[Lady Calypso]

I was definitely angered by the Thea/Oliver scene, but honestly, I just replaced Oliver and Thea's faces with MG's face because that's what was going on; it's not really Oliver and Thea saying these words. Now that they've abandoned character for plot, it's much easier to see past the characters and look into the writing and the plot choices. They just sacrificed Thea's characterization for this, and that is not ok. Thea would never encourage this level of lying. Yes, she did some lying herself, but not about secret family members. That is a big no-no for her, which is why this is ridiculous. This is the one thing that goes entirely against her character. She would never encourage a lie like this, especially toward close loved ones.

 

Plus...the logic just isn't there. Thea got virtually nothing about the secret itself, just that he has a son and she made the conclusion that he found out during the crossover. Personally, my first question would have been "How long have you known about William" but whatever, the show had to save some time. I liked hearing about Oliver's concerns. That is not a problem, as he stated that he was pretty much in denial and now he wanted to tell Felicity. AKA, it's code for 'the writers let me forget that this was ever a plot point to help save my character, but it's finally catching up to me so let's make me possibly look like an even bigger dick now'. And then they had Thea say that it was a promise. To...a woman who lied about Oliver's son for eight years, carried a cheque that she apparently never cashed (I'm going to pretend the $2 million was two cheques of $1 million and she cashed one of them) and was apparently never going to though I don't buy THAT for a moment, and who owes Oliver nothing but the allowance to see his son. Honestly, Thea should have realistically gone 'well, she lied about your son so you should be able to do whatever the hell you want. If I can find William, anyone can, especially the WOMAN WHO'S RUNNING AGAINST YOU AND WHOSE HUSBAND IS YOUR ENEMY BOTH AS OLIVER QUEEN AND AS THE GREEN ARROW'. My god! That was the whole purpose this episode! Thea stated at the beginning that she was going to be looking into Ruve's history because she'll most likely do the same to Oliver. They legit contradicted themselves/screwed themselves in the same episode. All for plot that MG is insistent on.

 

I feel bad for not just the cast and crew for having to put up with this storyline finally, but Stephen Amell and EBR, who have to try to save face with their couple. I mostly feel bad for SA, who must know that this is going to severely damage his character, especially when Oliver hurts Felicity with this secret.

 

The anvils were strong in this episode, weren't they? Realistically, the anvils and having Felicity help her mother with Quentin should lessen the blow with Oliver's lie (especially since she knows how he can be), but she's going to be oh-so-shocked that he hasn't changed 100% and that she feels betrayed that, according to Donna, "he never lies to her...EVER'. Thanks, Donna. Thanks for making it seem like Oliver will never, ever lie to her, so that Felicity can feel utterly betrayed next episode. Ok, actually Donna isn't the issue. It's still MG. It's always going to be MG when it comes to this plotline. I can't blame the characters anymore, even if they're the ones performing the actions. Someone has to give them this shit, and it's all MG. I'm putting the blame on him completely.

 

So...Bam Bam directed this episode, right? I could tell from the...interesting camera angles and shots used. I mean, not as bad as his last directed episode, so that's a plus.

 

Aww, Curtis! Like I've said before, I don't care that Curtis is the engineer that builds these mechanisms and Felicity doesn't. Yes, their first scene bugged slightly with the blueprints, but Curtis helping to create that biochip for Felicity is no problem. They mentioned that Curtis has been spending a lot of time working on it, and Curtis remained humble and tried to keep her spirits lower so she's not disappointed if it doesn't work.

 

The Oliver/Felicity scenes were so cute. It's a wonder why they want to break that up.

 

What flashbacks? I don't remember any flashbacks. Except unfortunately, I accidentally watched thirty seconds of the flashbacks and had to listen to Poppy. Oops.

 

Most kids are naive, unfortunately. It's not Oliver's fault that Samantha didn't teach William not to talk to strangers unless she's there. I mean, she started this all off with Oliver. This is on her, not him!

Edited February 18, 2016 by Lady Calypso

[dtissagirl]

Not that I want to see Samantha's view of things but this story would of worked better if Samantha was a living breathing character instead of a plot device. William too is just a plot point. If we got Sam's or William's side of things it might be easier to understand this story line.

 

Imo, as the story stands right now, their POVs is actually irrelevant because what Samantha is asking Oliver to do is ILLEGAL.

 

The only way this would have worked for me is if Samantha knew Oliver was the Green Arrow, and asking him to lie was blackmail.

[ComicFan777]

I think that it would have made more sense in a way if the writers spun it that Oliver is grasping at straws to come up with any rationalization to keep this secret from Felicity because he cannot deal with losing her (after hearing about the breakup in the first time line).  In hearing Thea coming up with justifications and joining the crazy train, it helped him rationalize why he needed to keep it from her, purely out of fear of losing her.  My hope is that Oliver is just flat out crazy not wanting to lose Felicity and that is why everything he is doing is not making any sense at all.  After all, he didn't jump immediately to protecting William after finding out Malcolm knew - it would show that his most important agenda is having Felicity not know because he is afraid of losing her rather than putting his son as his top priority.  I mean crazy doesn't make sense.  Oliver has always dealt with things by running away - this time it is more of emotional running away rather than physically, all out of fear.  It is absolutely not a good reason because it makes him a crazy person and an absolutely bad parent, but it is hard for me to really care about William, so I could go with Oliver feeling like his world would end if Felicity broke up and so he trying to find any crazy way to rationalize and justify to himself that he needs to keep it from her.  At least if it is because he cares about Felicity so unbelievably much, it is easier to stomach the awful storyline and accept his eagerness from Thea's speech.  He is still a lying douche IMO, but at least one that loves Felicity in an entirely messed up way.

[AyChihuahua]

At least if it is because he cares about Felicity so unbelievably much, it is easier to stomach the awful storyline and accept his eagerness from Thea's speech.  He is still a lying douche IMO, but at least one that loves Felicity in an entirely messed up way.

I agree that would have been easier to stomach, but from what I understand he said, and what Thea said, the writers are not going with that. He really is just prioritizing Baby Mama and kid over Felicity. The former is disgusting; the latter unnecessary, bc anyone with a brain, i.e., NOT Oliver, would know that Felicity would never have made him choose.