S06.E09: No Way Out

[piequinn35]

how about back to back flashbacks :P

[peach]

Carl hadn't been shot yet when Rick had his flashbacks. I wonder what it'd have been like if the show had put in flashbacks of Carl's first shooting and him as a younger kid as they ran. That might've been poignant.

 

I, myself, had a flashback to Lori snapping "He got shot?!"  I thought her ghost should have been floating around glaring accusingly.

[AngelaHunter]

I, myself, had a flashback to Lori snapping "He got shot?!"  I thought her ghost should have been floating around glaring accusingly.

 

 

And yelling, "Why didn't you tell him to stay in the house??"

[HighMaintenance]

The flashbacks that Rick had over Jessie seemed out of place for the typical TWD narrative.  It immediately reminded me of the

"zombie fever flashes" that Jim (in season 1) and Shane (in season 2) both had before turning/while turning into walkers

- but THAT particular method was never seen again with any other characters until now.

[peach]

And yelling, "Why didn't you tell him to stay in the house??"

 

This is all sufficient motivation to go outside and start hacking at zombies.  Anything to get away from a Lori guilt trip.

[HighMaintenance]

I officially passed beyond giving a shit about the "Lovey Dovey all the Time" duo ages ago, but now I join you in the "Kill 'em both."  Glenn has turned into an overly principled, dreary, pendantic saint, dispensing his lofty wisdom to all who have need of it and Maggie went from being a strong individual whose metamorphosis I enjoyed, to a pepetual "Woman in Peril" whose only facial expression is one of anguish over the Houdini-like, dead/not dead Glenn.  Sick of it, I am.

I''ve been tired of "Sub-Camp Schmoopie Love" since Hershel's farm.  Glenn has become Dale and Maggie has become Lori (if you trade bugeyes for anguish face).

[AngelaHunter]

I''ve been tired of "Sub-Camp Schmoopie Love" since Hershel's farm.  Glenn has become Dale and Maggie has become Lori (if you trade bugeyes for anguish face).

 

Both sets of bugeyes (Lori and Dale's) and the pharmacy, "I'll have sex with you" are what made me stop watching this show.

[NoWillToResist]

I draw the line at giving them a pass for having nearly the entire cast having conversations in the horde.  I could have gotten past Glenn/Enid and Wolf/Denise.  But they set themselves up for the jarring group discussions in the horde with Rick and crew and it was an easy fix.  No brilliance necessary.

 

All they had to do was make it to a building. Decide inside the building that they won't make it the armory and head for cars (at nightfall, sunset fixed). 

 

Yes, the number of times the gang all stopped to have lengthy discussions among the walkers when the MSF's cliffhanger was Sam saying 'mom' twice was...annoying, to say the least. One second you can't swing a cat without hitting a crowd of walkers, but the next, they find a wide open expanse of free space to debate the merits of action x or y with not a single walker coming close enough to make them want to shush.

 

I would like some clarification on what attracts walkers though. Because it just doesn't seem consistent. It seems to fluctuate between visual, auditory, and olfactory. What made the walkers descend upon Sam? None of them were interested when the group was chatting before. Jessie was whispering closely to him before he got chomped. So, even if someone smells like a walker, if they make any noise, a walker will translate that to 'food'? Walkers can seriously distinguish between actual language versus groaning/moaning? And when the walkers attacked Jessie (presumably for screaming), I call bullshit on Carl emerging unscathed. He was literally attached to her but the walkers have such precision that they zone in on one individual due to noise? If that's the case, they it just makes me think that our crew are consistently idiots for not constantly coating themselves in gore when they expect to be among walkers. Apparently, quiet and stank is all that's needed to pass among them unscathed...

[Nashville]

Official Baby Sitter= Walker Chow.

I'm colder than AngelaHunter. Will Judith = Walker Chow nugget? LOL

Cold? Y'all are dern near tropical. You want cold?

Judith and bits!

Judith and bits!

We're gonna get us some Judith and bits!

:>

I would like some clarification on what attracts walkers though. Because it just doesn't seem consistent. It seems to fluctuate between visual, auditory, and olfactory. What made the walkers descend upon Sam? None of them were interested when the group was chatting before. Jessie was whispering closely to him before he got chomped. So, even if someone smells like a walker, if they make any noise, a walker will translate that to 'food'? Walkers can seriously distinguish between actual language versus groaning/moaning?

Frequency, maybe. Sam's whimpering didn't have much volume, but it was pitched high enough to make dogs bark. And anything other than a walker's normal vocabulary of low-frequency grunts and snarls could serve as a trigger.

Also, there may be the consideration of trigger combinations:

• Fast motion is a trigger, smell or no smell.
• Slow motion is not, if scent is obscured.
• Non-motion generally is not, if scent is obscured - maybe the walkers think you're the same as a really short tree, I dunno - but what about non-motion + sound? That may take you right out of a walker's (presumably simple) classification system as an inanimate object; trees don't whine "I can't" - not even really really quietly.

ETA: fixed formatting

Edited February 18, 2016 by Nashville

[morgankobi]

Damn your ear worm, Nashville!

[Nutjob]

Rick's flashbacks of Jessie reminded me of the ones Brad Pitt's character had of Gwyneth's in Se7en. I almost expected him to start screaming about what was in the box.

[Guest]

Walkers can seriously distinguish between actual language versus groaning/moaning?

 

Yes they can.  When Rick and Glenn escaped Atlanta, Glenn got sniffed at after drawing attention by talking with Rick.  He diverted the Walker and got it to leave through louder moaning and groaning and shuffling.  I think that was intended to comic effect rather than a rule about Walker mental capacity but it happened.

[ShadowSixx]

I would like some clarification on what attracts walkers though. Because it just doesn't seem consistent. It seems to fluctuate between visual, auditory, and olfactory. What made the walkers descend upon Sam? None of them were interested when the group was chatting before. Jessie was whispering closely to him before he got chomped. So, even if someone smells like a walker, if they make any noise, a walker will translate that to 'food'? Walkers can seriously distinguish between actual language versus groaning/moaning? And when the walkers attacked Jessie (presumably for screaming), I call bullshit on Carl emerging unscathed. He was literally attached to her but the walkers have such precision that they zone in on one individual due to noise? If that's the case, they it just makes me think that our crew are consistently idiots for not constantly coating themselves in gore when they expect to be among walkers. Apparently, quiet and stank is all that's needed to pass among them unscathed...

 

What attracts walkers from what I seen on the show is number one noise. Wherever there's noise that's where the walkers will go as Morgan explained to Rick in S1. 

 

Smell would be next as from S1 when Rick and Glenn rubbed zombie guts all over them and when it wore off zombies started to go on the attack. Fresh blood also attracts them as when Michonne first arrived at the prison she had zombie smell all over her until she touched her bullet wound that was still bleeding and the zombie smelled it and they started to attack her. IDK what smell on the human body attracts the zombies to them, don't know if it's sweat or what.

 

A little confusing is Michonne's trick with the jaw/arms thing. Michonne can walk with them in a herd without being noticed but when Andrea tried the trick, even though she did it a little half assed Andrea still had to kill zombies because they were after her. Do zombies act in a pact? Since Michonne takes away their means of feeding if one or two of them are docile the rest are somewhat docile as well and wouldn't want to feed? Michonne's trick is a little confusing, don't know if comics explains it better.

 

I think any type of sudden movement attracts them as well. That's why when trying to camouflage they have to mimic the zombie walk.

Edited February 19, 2016 by ShadowSixx

[Mu Shu]

Holy Shit Moly! After reading the live thread, and then this one, I had to stay up until 1:45 am until the episode was available on Amazon to watch it. It didn't disappoint! I loved the whole damned thing!

Now, if they can kill off Enid the Queen of Teenage Emo Angst and maybe Denise the Dumbest Doctor Who Ever Lived, I'll be completely happy.

BTW, I have two friends who are psychiatrists. They are medical doctors with several more years training in their specialty. They can deliver babies and certainly know what an infection is, without the need for a cheat sheet, for fuck's sake. My brother, who is an RN, can do that, too. What they can't do is major surgery. That would take several more years training in a different specialty. The doctor character is poorly written and I can't stand the actress.

Lol, Dumbest Doctor Who Ever Lived. I too find the actress annoying, in fact, I cheered every time Nurse Jackie did her dirty. Was hoping she would die this episode, and I don't feel bad about that. Prosciutto lady can go with her. They should have kept the Wolf! He could have escaped and became a regular character who picks off a few red shirts now and then.

[GodsBeloved]

Rick's flashbacks of Jessie reminded me of the ones Brad Pitt's character had of Gwyneth's in Se7en. I almost expected him to start screaming about what was in the box.

Why did you have to go there? I know the ending. I HATE the ending. Yet if its on, I watch :(

 

I guess I need to watch the episode again because I totally missed Rick's flashbacks.

Cold? Y'all are dern near tropical. You want cold?

Judith and bits!

Judith and bits!

We're gonna get us some Judith and bits!

Yeah that's a little cold LOL

[AndySmith]

It immediately reminded me of the

 

Do we really need spoiler tags for stuff that happened in seasons 1 and 2?

[AngelaHunter]

If that's the case, they it just makes me think that our crew are consistently idiots for not constantly coating themselves in gore when they expect to be among walkers.

 

I was wondering why the zombies couldn't detect all those fresh-smelling heads atop the gore-smeared bodies. But of course they never detected Michonne's entire fresh-smelling body, I guess because walkers on chains seem to emit some sort of cloaking device.

 

Do we really need spoiler tags for stuff that happened in seasons 1 and 2?

 

I too was puzzling over how mentioning something that happened years ago could be a spoiler... ?

[rab01]

I was wondering why the zombies couldn't detect all those fresh-smelling heads atop the gore-smeared bodies. But of course they never detected Michonne's entire fresh-smelling body, I guess because walkers on chains seem to emit some sort of cloaking device.

If you look smell and act like a walker, the other walkers don't attack you. If you act out of character and they notice, they turn and look for the source of the disturbance.

 

So, Michonne's pets did sort of provide a cloaking device - if they keep plodding along when Michonne accidentally slips up a bit, it "reassures" the walkers farther away that nothing really happened near her.

 

(Assuming of course that I'm reading it right because god forbid the show ever tell us Michonne's understanding of how and why it worked.)

[Jalyn]

 We're seeing Carol's decisions come back to haunt our characters. Her threats to Sam were certainly not the only reason that the scheme failed. Certainly, his mother should have been much more forceful about him staying at the church with Judith and Gabriel. However, the audience was very clearly shown that it had an affect and helped along the sequence that ended with Sam, Jesse & Ron dead and Carl maimed. At the same time, we're watching the situation with the Wolf and Denise. Again, this isn't entirely her fault. Most of the blame lies with Morgan. However, she was the one that chose to force the issue at the absolute worst time possible - which led to him not being properly guarded and able to take a hostage. Then she takes him out when he is in process of protecting Denise. If she hadn't been at least somewhat wrong about him, she would have gotten Denise killed. Denise was only able to get out of there because he continued to protect her after it was clear to him that she could no longer save him. That also means that she came within a hairs breadth of making sure that there was no one available to save Carl.

 

I've said before, I think, that Morgan is still broken (and that his late teacher was as well) and that his no kill philosophy is a symptom of his psychological inability to cope. After half a season of seeing how Morgan's issues put people in danger, I wonder if we are going to balance this viewpoint by continuing to see how Carol's issues also put people in danger. Both of these people (hell, everyone that is still alive in this environment) are broken. They both recognize that the other is broken and causes problems for the group, but neither is seeing that they are just as scarred and crippled as the other. Morgan thinks that his code has caused him to heal from the obvious psychological break after his son died, not seeing that this is a step up but not an end. Carol thinks that she used to be fragile and helpless and that moving to violent, hard reactions to everything is her healing herself from the awful life that she had before, not seeing that this is also just a step. They both took what they knew to be their worst self and made a huge leap away, both going too far in that leap and missing the healthy center.  In both cases, they are better than they were, but neither has gotten to an actual good place. 

 

I'm fascinated by where this could go. I have more hope, after how things fell out this episode, that the show is coming down on moderation rather than either one of these people being deemed "right." 

[Ohwell]

I don't mind them eventually becoming friends, but I don't want to see any hate sex between the two of them.  If that happens, I'm out.

[CletusMusashi]

Rick's flashbacks of Jessie reminded me of the ones Brad Pitt's character had of Gwyneth's in Se7en. I almost expected him to start screaming about what was in the box.

That would have led to a Bob flashback.

[CletusMusashi]

I was wondering why the zombies couldn't detect all those fresh-smelling heads atop the gore-smeared bodies. But of course they never detected Michonne's entire fresh-smelling body, I guess because walkers on chains seem to emit some sort of cloaking device.

 

I too was puzzling over how mentioning something that happened years ago could be a spoiler... ?

Back in the zombies-on-leash days, I don't think Michonne was actually all that fresh-smelling. In fact, it was frequently suggested that all the zombie gore soaked into her hair was actually an important part of the camouflage. And Carol made sure to pull a bloody hood over her head when playing undead. What we saw this time was just lazy. It was like those pumpkin costumes that only cover the torso. Suitable for saying "Hee hee, look! I'm a pumpkin," but not actually for convincing anyone, no matter how brain dead, that you actually are one.

Edited February 20, 2016 by CletusMusashi

[petalfrog]

I cackled out loud when Sam got bitten. I seem to remember last season ending with him saying "MOM" numerous times right as they left the house and some zombies turning their heads? Anyone know how that got so glossed over tonight? How bizarre too it went from daytime to full nighttime. I don't know why they did that because I think the carnage scene would be scarier in the day anyways.

[AngelaHunter]

How bizarre too it went from daytime to full nighttime. I don't know why they did that because I think the carnage scene would be scarier in the day anyways.

 

Yes. People like Alfred Hitchcock and Stephen King knew/know that horrific events taking place in mundane settings, under innocuous sunlight with butterflies dancing actually increase horror, much more than do haunted houses or creepy nights with full moons (although IRL our fears rise in darkness). I guess they had to make night fall with a crash to enhance the effect of the flaming zombies?

[ChipBach]

I sincerely doubt a subdivision of houses starting in the $800Ks is depending upon an open crick for its primary water supply.

 

Yabbut - I agree the pond wasn't built for drinking water, however I am sure those houses are no longer on city service...  Two years into the ZA, I would guess water gathering is a bit more primitive.

[CletusMusashi]

Hopefully each house has a tank on the roof that collects rainwater. Of course, that raises the question of how much water, since some of these houses have like ten main characters living in them. But of course some of those characters don't actually use much water. Right, Daryl?

Edited February 20, 2016 by CletusMusashi

[Nashville]

From the Walking Dead wiki:

"Alexandria was a planned neighborhood outside of Alexandria, Virginia, near Washington, D.C.. The neighborhood was an upscale planned community with its own solar grid, cisterns and eco-based sewage filtration with pricing starting at the $800,000 to $1,400,000 range. It was designed for sustainability."

IIRC Deanna laid all this out for Rick in their initial "taped" conversation upon CDB's arrival at at ASZ.

[peach]

Yes. People like Alfred Hitchcock and Stephen King knew/know that horrific events taking place in mundane settings, under innocuous sunlight with butterflies dancing actually increase horror, much more than do haunted houses or creepy nights with full moons (although IRL our fears rise in darkness). I guess they had to make night fall with a crash to enhance the effect of the flaming zombies?

 

I think "crashing" nightfall might just be a factor of filming restraints, but the night battle was because they had a fuel truck and a rocket launcher, baby!

[AngelaHunter]

They should have kept the Wolf! He could have escaped and became a regular character who picks off a few red shirts now and then.

 

I don't know about that. Does Alexandria have a dentist? If not, I just couldn't look at that nasty grill every week. Yeah, I know everyone can smell the rotted zombies, but when the Wolf was giving Denise the up close and personal talk, I was thinking some of her look of horror was inspired by that halitosis.

[Anela]

I think of this card from the zombie tarot, whenever I read posts from people who are ready for characters to be killed:

 

 

She has her gun, and she's had enough of him.

Edited February 20, 2016 by Anela

[Nashville]

I don't know about that. Does Alexandria have a dentist? If not, I just couldn't look at that nasty grill every week. Yeah, I know everyone can smell the rotted zombies, but when the Wolf was giving Denise the up close and personal talk, I was thinking some of her look of horror was inspired by that halitosis.

"OK, I get it! I have BAD TEETH!!!"

-- Austin Powers

:)

[AngelaHunter]

Anela, I love that card!

 

"OK, I get it! I have BAD TEETH!!!"
-- Austin Powers

 

I mean, ya know, his teeth were more realistic than everyone elses' who look as though they faithfully use their White Strips and get regular polishings at the dentist.

[ShadowSixx]

Maybe when they're on their runs, they're picking up toothpaste/toothbrush and the women are making sure to stock up on female hygiene products. Their period may not attract sharks when swimming but it sure as hell will attract zombies so female hygiene products have to rank right up there when they're going on their runs.

[mornnoch]

Carrying toothpaste/a toothbrush is no big deal. In every house while on their way they'll find toothpaste/a toothbrush. And it's definitely not necessary to show us them collecting necessities on a run.

[HighMaintenance]

I must say, a passing line would help fill some discrepancies in TWD canon, though.  HOWEVER... I do not need to know how they poop in the wilds with no TP for months on end and not complain about swampass. 

[Hootis]

A good episode, almost a great one, high body count and they alllllmost got Glenn again.  I have felt cheated since the dumpster.

 

Not sure how Carl survived a bullet to the eye, but I think the writers are deliberately trying to anger me.

 

There's no other explanation how these morons could survive this long.  My darling Carol excepted, of course.

[Raven1707]

The Cable Live +3 Ratings are in for "No Way Out":

 

“The Walking Dead’s” midseason premiere was down slightly from its last episode of 2015 in the same-day ratings. Turns out people just needed some time to catch up.

 

The AMC hit improved from a 6.8 rating in adults 18-49 to a 9.6 after three days of delayed viewing, moving ahead of the 9.3 for its last episode in Live +3. It was far and away the No. 1 show in the demo for Feb. 8-14, cable or broadcast.  Total viewers: 19.077 million.

 

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2016/02/21/cable-live-3-ratings-feb-8-14-2016/

[queenanne]

Negan is going to feel real dumb when he finds out he fucking with the wrong people

 

I kind of chuckled when I thought about the fallout from that.  *Day 5 passes and no scouting party returns*

 

Negan:  Huh.  Guess they got eaten.

 

That's part of the problem. I never felt like the show gave it that type of treatment. Everything from the way that Jessie's pain and the pain of her children was mostly ignored in favor of the "connection" with Rick, to the need to push the "Is Rick crazy" narrative, to the OTT acting from the guy who played him, to Hardwick going on and on with the "Porchdick" comedy routine on Talking Dead every week. I never believed in a genuine sense of menace. As a result, the only thing many will remember is Carol scaring Sam, rather than him living in an abusive home his entire life.

 

Some of us don't watch Talking Dead (not enough hours in my week), thus any comedy routine involving the doctor wouldn't have altered my mental characterization at all.  Surely I'm not alone amongst audience members...?

 

• Logical/pacing inconsistency. Wouldn't a town full of wood buildings and flaming zombies be bad? Apparently not. Stupid tow-headed kid is not brave, then brave, then not brave. Father Gabriel is loathed and untrustworthy, then handed the baby because he promises he won't screw up THIS time. Wolf is allowed to leave with hostage for no conceivable reason, has crisis of conscience for no conceivable reason, doctor seems insistent on helping him for no conceivable reason. Characters often behave oddly or stupidly in service of plot points, and not even interesting ones. A bunch of people act senselessly so the Wolf can run off with the doctor and we can have...what? An indispensable 1-2 minutes of them faffing around by a ladder before returning to where they started? This is not good storytelling.
• REALLY cumbersome exposition. Morgan in particular has been a lightning rod for this. Walking Dead has generally handled the pragmatic/utilitarian/survival at all costs ethos reasonably well, as expressed through Shane (before he was turned into a cartoon for plot purposes), the Ricktator, and Carol. It has not handled arguments against it well at all, with the "good" side of the ledger repeatedly coming off as obtuse or insane.

 

*applauds* 

 

I would twin the first bullet point I left, with the recent discussions of "THIS is how you distract a zombie! ... No, THIS is!"  Mythology needs to be consistent at least within a show.

 

As for the second point, thinking about it at length that's very interesting.  Either the humane point of view is indefensible and should stop being discussed; or Kirkman et al should make us believe it.  Maybe redheaded doctor is the one to do it, which may be why an actress with prior bona fides at likeability was cast.

[Pete Martell]

Some of us don't watch Talking Dead (not enough hours in my week), thus any comedy routine involving the doctor wouldn't have altered my mental characterization at all.  Surely I'm not alone amongst audience members...?

 

Based on the ratings, you clearly aren't alone, but I do think that show's tone represents part of the mindset of TWD, as Hardwick never seemed to feel any need to stop (it went on and on). I felt the show's presentation was lackadaisal enough in its own right, partly because they were more interested in the Jessie/Rick "connection" than in her plight. I remember fans who actually thought she was making up her own abuse or that she was abusing her husband, the writing in those first episodes was so poor.

[queenanne]

Based on the ratings, you clearly aren't alone, but I do think that show's tone represents part of the mindset of TWD, as Hardwick never seemed to feel any need to stop (it went on and on). I felt the show's presentation was lackadaisal enough in its own right, partly because they were more interested in the Jessie/Rick "connection" than in her plight. I remember fans who actually thought she was making up her own abuse or that she was abusing her husband, the writing in those first episodes was so poor.

 

It's an interesting question, though I would feel that Hardwick is the employee of AMC and not TWD, thus has his own discrete opinions, but who knows what goes on behind the scenes?  He could be the mouthpiece of TPTB of TWD.

 

Also, thanks for confirming as I was thinking in retrospect, that was just laziness on my part and I could've accurately assessed TTD's ratings share. :)

[Pete Martell]

It's an interesting question, though I would feel that Hardwick is the employee of AMC and not TWD, thus has his own discrete opinions, but who knows what goes on behind the scenes?  He could be the mouthpiece of TPTB of TWD.

 

Also, thanks for confirming as I was thinking in retrospect, that was just laziness on my part and I could've accurately assessed TTD's ratings share. :)

 

I don't think he's their mouthpiece, but I do think the show serves to go along with what the parent show may want, especially after some of the early haywire episodes like the one where the rocker went on TD and basically said the show now sucked (I can't remember his name at the minute). Not on topic, I guess - sorry.

Edited February 28, 2016 by Pete Martell

[Dr.Jacoby]

My next-favorite part of that bit? Sasha, after the RPG impacted about 15 feet away - shaking her head and trying to get all the cute little ear bones to go back into their accustomed places. Reminded me of Pee Wee Herman with his Giant Ear saying, "WHAT??? WHAT???"

Heh, I saw a video on youtube where someone jokingly posits that CDB keep getting taken unawares by zombie attacks (when they really shouldn't by now) because they keep discharging weapons/explosives near their ears and have damaged their hearing- it actually makes too much sense to be a plot point on twd though!

[Raven1707]

The Nielsen Live +7 Ratings are in for this episode:

 

The return of “The Walking Dead” was unsurprisingly the biggest beneficiary of delayed viewing for the week of Feb. 8-14. The No. 1 show in the same-day and 3-day rankings is also tops in Live +7 with a 10.0 adults 18-49 rating and just shy of 20 million viewers. [19.987 million]

 

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2016/03/01/cable-live-7-ratings-feb-8-14-2016/

 

 

I meant to post these earlier, but it's been a crazy week...