Disney Films

[Wiendish Fitch]

14 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Ever After was a seperate, non Disney movie, and that stepsister was DEFINITELY not Anastasia.

Second this. I adore Ever After, and I had zero problem with there being a nice stepsister because

1. It created an interesting dynamic, and it gave Danielle (our "Cinderella") a much needed sister figure.

2. Watching Jacqueline grow a spine and stand up to her awful mother and sister was cathartic and rewarding AF. 

3. Melanie Lynskey played her beautifully.

Bonus? I like that Jacqueline is brunette (I hate the "blondes are good and brunettes are evil" trope).

But as for the Disney Cinderella sequels? Yeah, utter crap (I even feel this way about the much defended A Twist in Time). Talk about insidious, badly written villain apologia. Anastasia was every bit as nasty and awful as Drizella, and she sure had no compunction or remorse about tearing Cinderella's dress to shreds right off her body. She deserves to toil in drudgery and loneliness, not get a boyfriend. You don't write a character that hateful, then pull a sympathetic angle on her out of fat air*. Redemption should be earned, through humility, hard work, and self-awareness (She-Ra and the Princesses of Power explores this really well, especially in the latest season).

*Apologies to Phelous.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Another thing that bugged me about these sequels was Cinderella’s insistence  on wearing those servant rags AFTER she was the Princess. We know from the original that she wore nice clothes and was only given those servant’s clothing after her father died.

She couldn’t have “day dresses” to wear?😤🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

[bmoore4026]

5 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Really? That phrase was around in the 18th century? I'm assuming 18th, because wasn't that when the Waltz was introduced?

It's really best to think of the Disney Animated Canon films being set not on real life times but places with the look of real life times.  Beauty and the Beast (which I will be getting to around Christmas) had the look of the late 18th century/early 19th century, but that golden dress Belle wears is definitely not of either era.  Plus, everything and everyone is clean and hale and hearty.  Not a trace of revolution or bloodshed or Napoleonic wars in sight.  Also, they must have toilets because there's no poop all over the place.  There had better be toilets because I hate to think of the poor souls who got turned into chamber pots when the enchantress cursed the castle.

As for Cinderella, it looks to be patterned after the late 1800s/early 1900s, back when women wore bustles and men had those little fringy things on their shoulders.

TL;DR, the movies are anachronistic.

3 hours ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

2. Watching Jacqueline grow a spine and stand up to her awful mother and sister was cathartic and rewarding AF. 

3. Melanie Lynskey played her beautifully.

So great when she throws that "I'm only here for the food" line back in her mother's face.

[GHScorpiosRule]

38 minutes ago, bmoore4026 said:

It's really best to think of the Disney Animated Canon films being set not on real life times but places with the look of real life times.  Beauty and the Beast (which I will be getting to around Christmas) had the look of the late 18th century/early 19th century, but that golden dress Belle wears is definitely not of either era.  Plus, everything and everyone is clean and hale and hearty.  Not a trace of revolution or bloodshed or Napoleonic wars in sight.  Also, they must have toilets because there's no poop all over the place.  There had better be toilets because I hate to think of the poor souls who got turned into chamber pots when the enchantress cursed the castle.

As for Cinderella, it looks to be patterned after the late 1800s/early 1900s, back when women wore bustles and men had those little fringy things on their shoulders.

TL;DR, the movies are anachronistic.

I only mention it as I think Sleeping Beauty is the only one that mentions it takes place in the 14th Century-and that this Century is more progressive!😂😂😂😂

[bmoore4026]

Never mind what I said about DIS-Order.  One Stockholm Syndrome comment and I'm gone.  It's one of the reasons I stopped listening to How Did This Get Made because June Diane Raphael was going on about how Belle was put in a cage.  Belle was never put in a cage.  It also put me off a podcast HDTGM advertised called The Bechdel Cast and the three women there were like "Are we going to talk about Belle's Stockholm Syndrome now?"

In fact, here's my review of Beauty and the Beast:  BELLE DOES NOT FUCKING HAVE STOCKHOLM SYNDROME!!!  God, I hear it on podcasts and Youtube "comedy" videos and a Youtube show I watch called Retro Replay and a message popped on The Lion King video game episode about how Beauty and the Beast was an "ode to Stockholm Syndrome" and it made me want to go to Burbank to punch Troy Baker and Nolan North in their throats.

Also, Belle chose to take her father's place, Belle fled after Beast had his temper tantrum because she could have fucked shit up for everybody by touching the rose.  She returned to the castle and told off the Beast for his temper.  Beast isn't a militant bank robber, he's a spoiled self-destructive manchild who needed to be called out for his behavior.  And can we knock it off with Stockholm Syndrome in general.  Of course those bank people weren't going to testify on the bank robber terrorist people, they're Swedish.  The whole country of Sweden is pretty damn goofy.  Sorry for making generalizations but they can be.

And people go on about how Belle isn't feminist enough.  I'm opening a can of worms here but I don't care: What Measure is a Non-Feminist?  Someone tell me.

I might go in deeper with Beauty and the Beast later but DIS-Order set me off, so I'm too hotheaded to go on.  If We Hate Movies pulls the same shit, I'm done with them, too.

Edited November 23, 2019 by bmoore4026

[Captain Carrot]

1 hour ago, bmoore4026 said:

In fact, here's my review of Beauty and the Beast:  BELLE DOES NOT FUCKING HAVE STOCKHOLM SYNDROME!!! 

Lindsay Ellis agrees with you.

[bmoore4026]

10 minutes ago, Captain Carrot said:

Lindsay Ellis agrees with you.

God bless her and all her intelligence and articulation that I simply don't have.

[starri]

23 hours ago, Chyromaniac said:

I know I’m a bit late to the Little Mermaid discussion, but I just wanted to say that “Part of That World” is probably my favorite Disney song.  The way Ashman’s lyrics play off each other and Menken’s music is just magical, with all the little pauses, and internal rhymes and alliteration.  I don’t generally have a head for lyrics, but I spent an afternoon listening to cover versions online, and I basically memorized them.  And, it all but introduced the broadway concept of just having the lead actress sing about her feelings (the “want” song) to Disney- something they’ve done for practically every Princess since.  And of course, it’s the song the execs wanted to cut for time...

I love "Part of Your World" and in addition to the lyrics and music, so much of its power comes from Jodi Benson's voice.

However, it's also very heavily cribbed from their own "Somewhere That's Green" from Little Shop of Horrors, and that's musically as well as thematically.  Which is also a song that draws a lot from the performance; Kerry Butler played Audrey in a Broadway revival about fifteen years ago, and there are clips on YouTube of her tearing up while singing it.

[BetterButter]

[bmoore4026]

Well someone has just released their mostly spoiler free review of Frozen II:

From what he says, there really is no point to Kristoff in this film.  Also, there's no villain, apparently. Not even Ingrid the Snow Queen from Once Upon A Time.  Disney, get your act together and bring back the camptastic villains!

[GHScorpiosRule]

It’s been many years since I watched the original Bambi, so now I’m watching the sequel, after rewatching the original, which came out 64 years later and...I...like it. 
I like that we’re seeing the years of the Great Prince raising or attempting to raise his now motherless son and that Patrick Stewart was PERFECT casting.

And we get the name of the would be/wannabe alpha who tried to “claim” Faline. 

Edited November 21, 2019 by GHScorpiosRule

[Dandesun]

15 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

It’s been many years since I watched the original Bambi, so now I’m watching the sequel, after rewatching the original, which came out 64 years later and...I...like it. 
I like that we’re seeing the years of the Great Prince raising or attempting to raise his now motherless son and that Patrick Stewart was PERFECT casting.

And we get the name of the would be/wannabe alpha who tried to “claim” Faline. 

Isn't it Rocco or something? I seem to remember he had a name in the book.

Yes. There's a book. I remember my cousin reading it aloud one Christmas when we stayed in Gramma's pink room over the holidays. OR... it could have been the summer of '84 when we stayed at Gramma and Grampa's -- also in the pink room.

[GHScorpiosRule]

3 hours ago, Dandesun said:

Isn't it Rocco or something? I seem to remember he had a name in the book.

Yes. There's a book. I remember my cousin reading it aloud one Christmas when we stayed in Gramma's pink room over the holidays. OR... it could have been the summer of '84 when we stayed at Gramma and Grampa's -- also in the pink room.

It’s Rommo. And what a bullying weasel.

[starri]

Watching The Rescuers as an adult who works with underprivileged kids, I find Penny's sadness about no one wanting to adopt her even more heartbreaking than I did as a kid.  Madame Medusa telling her "What makes you think anyone would want a homely little girl like you" is the most evil thing any Disney villain does, because it's so banal.

God, this movie is so underrated.

[Spartan Girl]

I really liked this video Lindsay Ellis made defending The Hunchback of Notre Dame.  You can bitch about how it Disneyfied Victor Hugo and the obvious commercialization, but give credit where credit is due, this was one of the few versions that gave Quasimodo a well-deserved character arc:

[Dandesun]

18 hours ago, starri said:

Watching The Rescuers as an adult who works with underprivileged kids, I find Penny's sadness about no one wanting to adopt her even more heartbreaking than I did as a kid.  Madame Medusa telling her "What makes you think anyone would want a homely little girl like you" is the most evil thing any Disney villain does, because it's so banal.

God, this movie is so underrated.

It's very Anne of Green Gables in a way...

I loved Penny when I was wee because she had her teddy bear and wouldn't part with him for anything. Mine was very cleverly named 'Little Brown Teddy' and I took him everywhere with me. There are pictures of me camping in the Rockies at 4 years old, crossing a creek hopping rock to rock with Little Brown Teddy clamped firmly to my side.

I still have him but I have to hide him because my cats like chewing on his face and that is NOT COOL, LINUS!! But, yes, the Rescuers is a full on classic and no one can tell me otherwise.

"R-E-S-C-U-E Rescue Aid So-ci-e-ty! Heads held high, touch the sky, you mean everything to me."

Plus... I just loved the message. Penny wasn't forgotten. Even if she was overlooked for a time, the Rescue Aid Society saw her and didn't let her go. And she got her family in the end.

I actually love both Rescuers movies. Bernard and Bianca, man... they get shit done.

[andromeda331]

On 11/18/2019 at 11:22 AM, GHScorpiosRule said:

Another thing that bugged me about these sequels was Cinderella’s insistence  on wearing those servant rags AFTER she was the Princess. We know from the original that she wore nice clothes and was only given those servant’s clothing after her father died.

She couldn’t have “day dresses” to wear?😤🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

Me too. She didn't chose to wear them. Those were the clothes forced on her to wear after her father died.  Even if she didn't want to wear very fancy dresses every day she would pick something else for her every day clothes. It also bugged me that she wore her iconic dress at the ball. Yes, it was beautiful and maybe she found a seamstress to make a copy of it. But this is a girl who had to wear the same thing every day of her life and now had the money and means to a closet full of clothes or closets full and she wears the two same dresses? If anything she'd spend the first several months after her wedding trying different dresses and styles to figure out what she liked.

[bmoore4026]

Well, I rewatched Big Hero 6 two nights ago.  I love Baymax, I love Honey Lemon, and like the other supporting characters, the villain isn't that much of a bait-and-switch villain compared to others (lookin' at you, Bellwether), but I haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate Hiro.  I cannot stand 13 year olds acting smarter than adults.  All the others on Big Hero 6 (besides Baymax) are at least senior high school/early college age.  Also, it's partly Hiro's fault for all the crap went down, besides the fire.  That's totally on Callaghan.  Hiro could have gone on a journey of self-reflection and realization like Buzz and Woody or Joy, but no, he just had to be Super Hiro.  Also, that "Immortals" song blows chunks. 

I really got to get started on rewatching Aladdin.  I don't know why I keep putting it off.

Edited November 23, 2019 by bmoore4026

[GHScorpiosRule]

Beauty and the Beast: Enchanted Christmas  is also one I enjoy. And it’s great that almost all the original cast returned (Chip was voiced by Haley Joel Osmet in this). The second sequel, Belle’s Magical World was enjoyable, but the animation sucked. It’s cheaper-kind if what they did with the “third” hideous season of The Gargoyles: the Goliath Chronicles. Sadly, Angela Lansbury didn’t return to play Mrs. Potts and a different actor for Chip.

But the heart from the Original is still there and that’s what counts for me.

I 🥺😢 hearing Lumiere and Cogsworth, knowing that Jerry Orbach and David Ogden Stiers are no longer with us.

Edited November 23, 2019 by GHScorpiosRule

[Spartan Girl]

15 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I 🥺😢 hearing Lumiere and Cogsworth, knowing that Jerry Orbach and David Ogden Stiers are no longer with us.

I know. I miss them too 😢

[GHScorpiosRule]

And I watched the original  Beauty and the Beast. ❤️🥰sigh...🥰❤️ The scene where Beast lays dying, and Belle assuring him he’ll be okay, but then he “dies” and Belle falls onto his chest and tells him she loves him?

NEVER.FAILS.TO.MAKE.ME.CRY. I’m talking UGLY CRYING here.

And clearly I’m thinking too much about this, but whoever wrote the line in “Be Our Guest” where Lumiere says they’ve been enchanted for 10 years, goofed.

Because in the opening scene were the Enchantemress cursed him, she said he had until his 21st birthday to learn how to love and break the curse. And Chip was alive when the curse was placed. So clearly they did age as years passed. Or did everyone except the Prince stay the same age? I’m thinking he was 18 or thereabouts? That way Chip can still be a kid. Plus in Enchanted Christmas, which took place shortly after Belle showed up and happened “offscreenville” the flashback to how it was on Christmas he was cursed, showed him to be young adult. Or even maybe 16ish in my head.

It’s the only way it makes sense to me, fantasy or no fantasy, so there!

Speaking of Mrs. Potts, she looked more like Chip’s grandma with that pure white hair! It just makes me shake my head and laugh, though.

[Wiendish Fitch]

10 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Speaking of Mrs. Potts, she looked more like Chip’s grandma with that pure white hair! It just makes me shake my head and laugh, though.

She could be prematurely grey. That sometimes happens. 

In any case, Emma Thompson is certainly way, way, way too old to be the mother of a little kid, but that didn't stop the brain trust at Disney from casting her as Mrs. Potts.

Edited November 24, 2019 by Wiendish Fitch

[Popples]

On 11/21/2019 at 8:19 PM, starri said:

Watching The Rescuers as an adult who works with underprivileged kids, I find Penny's sadness about no one wanting to adopt her even more heartbreaking than I did as a kid.  Madame Medusa telling her "What makes you think anyone would want a homely little girl like you" is the most evil thing any Disney villain does, because it's so banal.

God, this movie is so underrated.

"Someone's Waiting For You" makes me ugly cry every time.

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Speaking of Mrs. Potts, she looked more like Chip’s grandma with that pure white hair! It just makes me shake my head and laugh, though.

If I had all these children, my hair would probably turn white as well. I think they're probably hers, they never explicitly said.

[bmoore4026]

This is Beauty and the Beast related.  I watched that "Waking Sleeping Beauty" documentary and from what the people who were working on the movie said is that Jeffrey Katzenberg wanted to have a little Beast running around the castle playing pranks on the Enchanted Object servants and courtiers.  The makers were repulsed at the idea of what would essentially be Eddie Munster running around during the prologue.  They opted for the stained glass window thing instead.  However, I think, by that time, "Be Our Guest" had already been recorded and the whole "ten years" thing had been set in stone.

So, yeah, the prince was intended to be 11 even though that portrait Beast rips up would say otherwise.  Then again, what great movie doesn't have plot holes you can pilot a jet liner through?

Also, BELLE DOES NOT HAVE STOCKHOLM SYNDROME!!!

Edited November 25, 2019 by bmoore4026

[ruby24]

16 minutes ago, bmoore4026 said:

This is Beauty and the Beast related.  I watched that "Waking Sleeping Beauty" documentary and from what the people who were working on the movie said is that Jeffrey Katzenberg wanted to have a little Beast running around the castle playing pranks on the Enchanted Object servants and courtiers.  The makers were repulsed at the idea of what would essentially be Eddie Munster running around during the prologue.  They opted for the stained glass window thing instead.  However, I think, by that time, "Be Our Guest" had already been recorded and the whole "ten years" thing had been set in stone.

So, yeah, the prince was intended to be 11 even though that portrait Beast rips up would say otherwise.  Then again, what great movie doesn't have plot holes you can pilot a jet liner through?

Also, BELLE DOES NOT HAVE STOCKHOLM SYNDROME!!!

No, that's not what they said in the documentary. Howard Ashman is the one who wanted a curse placed on a kid, because he thought that was a more tragic backstory, and the two co-directors (who weren't totally in control of the movie because Howard Ashman was the one at the time, who, kind of like Walt Disney, had total creative control over all storytelling aspects of the early Renaissance movies before his death), couldn't stop imagining him as an Eddie Munster type image and decided to speak up about it.

And Howard really laid into him and the entire group and shut them up because he scared them (lol). They went with the stained glass prologue which had the effect of making his age sort of ambiguous, but kept the basic premise.

[bmoore4026]

3 hours ago, ruby24 said:

No, that's not what they said in the documentary. Howard Ashman is the one who wanted a curse placed on a kid, because he thought that was a more tragic backstory, and the two co-directors (who weren't totally in control of the movie because Howard Ashman was the one at the time, who, kind of like Walt Disney, had total creative control over all storytelling aspects of the early Renaissance movies before his death), couldn't stop imagining him as an Eddie Munster type image and decided to speak up about it.

And Howard really laid into him and the entire group and shut them up because he scared them (lol). They went with the stained glass prologue which had the effect of making his age sort of ambiguous, but kept the basic premise.

My mistake

[GHScorpiosRule]

19 hours ago, Popples said:

If I had all these children, my hair would probably turn white as well. I think they're probably hers, they never explicitly said.

Well, Mrs. Potts did say to get in the cupboard with his "brothers and sisters" so I'm thinking, yes, they are all hers!

[GHScorpiosRule]

13 hours ago, ruby24 said:

They went with the stained glass prologue which had the effect of making his age sort of ambiguous, but kept the basic premise.

Thanks for the clarification. While the stained glass does make it look ambiguous (because portraits of monarchy from the 1500s have 9 and 12 year old boys look as if they're in their 20s!), in Enchanted Christmas, the night Prince was cursed, he was acting like a tween spoiled brat, but his voice was that of a teenager or young adult.

I'm just not going to think about it, because overall, I love this movie the best. I mean, narrator said "YEARS went by" or passed, making it seem like the decade mentioned in the song, as opposed to a handful.

But, like I just said, I love this movie the BEST, and it wasn't my first Disney movie. But damn if Paige O'Hara and Robby Benson didn't do a great job. Especially Robby as the Beast and Prince. What I really appreciated at the near end when the curse broke, was how Belle wasn't sure who this guy was in front of her. He's telling her it's HIM, but she's confused, lifts and strokes his hair. But it's his eyes and the expression in them, that convinces her.

Oh, did I mention I how  mushy my insides get when Belle cuddles up to Beast during their song? 

I don't know if this is unpopular or not, but I think they should have just released Angela Lansbury's version, and not have Celine Dion and Peabo Bryson sing it. But that's just me. 

[Popples]

26 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Well, Mrs. Potts did say to get in the cupboard with his "brothers and sisters" so I'm thinking, yes, they are all hers!

That's right! It's been a while since I watched the entire film through, I usually end up repeating the musical numbers over and over again.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Just now, Popples said:

That's right! It's been a while since I watched the entire film through, I usually end up repeating the musical numbers over and over again.

I remember the exact line because I just rewatched this and the sequels over the weekend.

[bmoore4026]

Today marks the 27th anniversary of the release of Aladdin.  Just a little tidbit.

[Trini]

On 11/22/2019 at 2:31 PM, Dandesun said:

I actually love both Rescuers movies. Bernard and Bianca, man... they get shit done.

If there was ever a property they could make into a franchise, it's this one. I'd love another movie, but the Rescue Aid Society concept could also work well for a TV series.

[bmoore4026]

Well, I finally finished Aladdin, the animated version. 

Scott Weinger and Robin Williams may have never been in the same recording, but they had amazing chemistry.  Seriously, you'd think Aladdin and Genie were flesh and blood people in how they interacted with each other. 

Also, I forgot how much of a hottie Aladdin is?  Props to the character designers.

Abu is adorable, funny, and kicks ass.  And he's just a little monkey,  And Carpet, who is just a living throw rug, shows a whole lot of personality.  It must have been no easy feat to animate that.

And Jafar is delicious as a villain and I love the cobra motif.  Also, Gilbert Gottfried is amazing as Iago.  Also, say what you will about Jim Cummings, but he was amazing as the villainous captain of the guards.

"A Whole New World" is amazing and everything, as is "Never Had a Friend Like Me", but I far prefer "One Step Ahead" and "Prince Ali".  Why wasn't the latter nominated?

Now there is one thing that I skipped: the scene where Aladdin is bound, gagged, chained up, and thrown into the sea.  I have an intense fear of drowning, so I bypass that part, even though that's when his second wished is used.  I did a little internet research and found this scene also stuck out in people's minds, as did Phillip from Sleeping Beauty getting rather viciously tied up by Maleficent's goblins and Flynn from Tangled getting taken away to be executed.  Apparently, if your a Disney hero who goes through a Distressed Dude moment or two, your remembered better.

(I'll be getting to Sleeping Beauty and Tangled eventually)

The one thing I didn't like in this movie?  Jasmine.  Yeah, she's a Disney princess.  Yes, I have heard a few people regard her as feminist.  My thing is is that these people really shouldn't.  She's spoiled.  She doesn't know how the world works (she goes into town wearing simple clothing yet keeps those huge gold earrings on).  She lives in luxury while many of the people of Agrabah live in squalor.  And her little "I'm going to choose who I want to marry and will not be a thing to be traded" made me want to climb into the movie and box her ears and scream "You're the only daughter of a sultan of a small country!  You're more a bargaining chip than a princess!  Deal with it!  Also, people would kill to live the life you do!"  Then she sic her pet Bengal tiger on me and I'd be ripped to bloody shreds. 

TL;DR Jasmine isn't a good role model for girls.

One other thing I didn't like about Aladdin is that, even though Robin Williams did an award worthy job, it opened the door for movie stars to come in and do more voice roles, thus taking work away from voice actors and character actors and so forth.  Troy Baker is one of the most amazing voice actors out there who does a killer Matthew McConaughey impression yet he gets passed over for a role in favor of actual Matthew McConaughey.  Kids don't care about star power, movie people, and neither do the parents who take them to see animated movies.  What they care about is a good story with engaging characters, like the friendship between Genie and Aladdin.  Their fraternal love is the true love story in this film.

Speaking of other forms of love and with its big sequel out now, I guess next I'll be talking about Frozen and the start of Disney going meta and how it pisses me off.

[Spartan Girl]

5 hours ago, bmoore4026 said:

The one thing I didn't like in this movie?  Jasmine.  Yeah, she's a Disney princess.  Yes, I have heard a few people regard her as feminist.  My thing is is that these people really shouldn't.  She's spoiled.  She doesn't know how the world works (she goes into town wearing simple clothing yet keeps those huge gold earrings on).  She lives in luxury while many of the people of Agrabah live in squalor.  And her little "I'm going to choose who I want to marry and will not be a thing to be traded" made me want to climb into the movie and box her ears and scream "You're the only daughter of a sultan of a small country!  You're more a bargaining chip than a princess!  Deal with it!  Also, people would kill to live the life you do!"  Then she sic her pet Bengal tiger on me and I'd be ripped to bloody shreds. 

To each their own! Personally, I love Jasmine warts and all, though she can come off a little bratty sometimes. She does however get some growth and character development in the series and sequels. You may want to give the LA remake a try, she's a much bigger character there than she was in the original. I love cartoon Jasmine and LA Jasmine equally.

GOD YES, Aladdin was HAWT. Even when I was five I wanted to run my fingers through that hair. 

[Bill1978]

On 11/25/2019 at 3:30 AM, GHScorpiosRule said:

And clearly I’m thinking too much about this, but whoever wrote the line in “Be Our Guest” where Lumiere says they’ve been enchanted for 10 years, goofed.

It could be 10 years. Chip could pass as a ten year old, so he was a baby when he was cursed.

New theory: Chip is actually the Prince's brother. The mum died during child birth, dad had predeceased by fighting the wolves. Allowing the Price to be the ruler of the castle. The curse happens and Mrs Potts decides it is easier to be Chip's mum than nanny. The Prince has no idea that Chip is his brother.

My biggest issue with people arguing that the 10 years line is a major major blunder is trying to say the Prince would have been only 11 and that the Enchantress is being harsh on him. There were plenty of ruling 11 year olds back in that era. And really 11 is pretty close to being considered an adult.

I understand why people have an issue with the 10 years line, but I personally don't. But then I don't really analyse movies to a great depth cause I'm shallow haha. They did change it in the Broadway musical I think. And they removed the reference to blooming until his 21st year I think. Both lines are just generic references to years.

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, Bill1978 said:

It could be 10 years. Chip could pass as a ten year old, so he was a baby when he was cursed.

Except in Enchanted Christmas, when Beast was remembering how he got cursed, we saw Chip, and he looked like he was three or four, not a baby.

1 hour ago, Bill1978 said:

My biggest issue with people arguing that the 10 years line is a major major blunder is trying to say the Prince would have been only 11 and that the Enchantress is being harsh on him. There were plenty of ruling 11 year olds back in that era. And really 11 is pretty close to being considered an adult.

Again, he didn't look or sound like he was 11 in Enchanted Christmas, but an adolescent/teenager. I'm not saying that he couldn't have been a ruler at 11. Just that in the stained glass images, he looked older. 

[bmoore4026]

11 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

To each their own! Personally, I love Jasmine warts and all, though she can come off a little bratty sometimes. She does however get some growth and character development in the series and sequels. You may want to give the LA remake a try, she's a much bigger character there than she was in the original. I love cartoon Jasmine and LA Jasmine equally.

GOD YES, Aladdin was HAWT. Even when I was five I wanted to run my fingers through that hair. 

Not going to lie, giving LA Jasmine a proper song was cool, especially since it was about her defiance to Jafar.  I'm reluctant to watch the LA version as I am not that much of a Will Smith fan.

And Aladdin does have the best hair out of all the Disney heroes.  Yes, even better than Tarzan's.

Edited November 27, 2019 by bmoore4026

[Harvey]

18 minutes ago, bmoore4026 said:

Not going to lie, giving LA Jasmine a proper song was cool, especially since it was about her defiance to Jafar.  I'm reluctant to watch the LA version as I am not that much of a Will Smith fan.

And Aladdin does have the best hair out of all the Disney heroes.  Yes, even better than Tarzan's.

Everybody was doubtful about Will Smith's role when the promo pictures came out. But he lost himself in the role and did very well. The public agreed. He is actually one of the best parts of the movie. The "you never had a friend like me" song is very spectacular.

[bmoore4026]

1 minute ago, Harvey said:

Everybody was doubtful about Will Smith's role when the promo pictures came out. But he lost himself in the role and did very well. The public agreed. He is actually one of the best parts of the movie. The "you never had a friend like me" song is very spectacular.

Guess I'll give it a watch.  Still by-passing the "Aladdin almost gets drowned" scene if they kept it.

[Annber03]

12 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

To each their own! Personally, I love Jasmine warts and all

I like her, too. She's one of my favorite princesses. I especially loved how she saw right through all the phoniness of the many guys who came calling. 

Aladdin is probably my favorite Disney film. I remember seeing it when it came out in theaters, and I can't even begin to count how many times I watched that movie as a kid. It's a miracle I didn't wear out the VHS tape :p. And of course, Williams as the Genie was perfection-my family always looked forward to him showing up when we'd watch the movie. 

No argument here on Aladdin's attractiveness, either :). 

[Bill1978]

On 11/27/2019 at 5:33 PM, bmoore4026 said:

(she goes into town wearing simple clothing yet keeps those huge gold earrings on)

That's so the audience would know it's Jasmine. Just like how toddler/child version of adult cartoon characters wear the same outfit the adult wears. Apparently people who watch animated features aren't smart enough to recognise characters in different outfits or at different ages.

[Bill1978]

10 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Except in Enchanted Christmas, when Beast was remembering how he got cursed, we saw Chip, and he looked like he was three or four, not a baby.

Sorry for the double post but I missed this reply when I was replying to Aladdin. I personally don't count any DTV plot gospel, so for me this isn't evidence haha. But I do admit that line of 10 years causes so many plot holes expecially with the portrait that Belle relies on to prove that the prince is the beast at the end. And because Beauty is my favourite movie of all time, I just end up sticking my fingers in my ears and saying la la la whenever anyone tries to point out its faults haha.

[Spartan Girl]

Speaking of Beauty and the Beast the one thing that people complain about that really annoys me? "Oh he shouldn't have turned back into a prince, he was better as a beast!" Uh, did you guys miss the point of the whole story?! It doesn't MATTER what he looked like on the outside. He's still the same guy! It's not like he was replaced by a different character. Different wrapping, same gift, so to speak.

Edited November 28, 2019 by Spartan Girl

[GHScorpiosRule]

2 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Speaking of Beauty and the Beast the one thing that people complain about that really annoys me? "Oh he shouldn't have turned back into a prince, he was better as a prince!" Uh, did you guys miss the point of the whole story?! It doesn't MATTER what he looked like on the outside. He's still the same guy! It's not like he was replaced by a different character. Different wrapping, same gift, so to speak.

I think you mean beast?🤪 Technically he is the same-but he’d changed in that he was no longer a selfish, narcissistic asshole.

6 hours ago, Bill1978 said:

Sorry for the double post but I missed this reply when I was replying to Aladdin. I personally don't count any DTV plot gospel, so for me this isn't evidence haha. But I do admit that line of 10 years causes so many plot holes expecially with the portrait that Belle relies on to prove that the prince is the beast at the end. And because Beauty is my favourite movie of all time, I just end up sticking my fingers in my ears and saying la la la whenever anyone tries to point out its faults haha.

It’s also my my favorite. I’m not trying to pick it apart, but just noticed that line and the 10 years and scratched my head.

[Wiendish Fitch]

7 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I think you mean beast?🤪 Technically he is the same-but he’d changed in that he was no longer a selfish, narcissistic asshole.

It’s also my my favorite. I’m not trying to pick it apart, but just noticed that line and the 10 years and scratched my head.

I've heard the theory that Lumiere was lying/exaggerating/just being dramatic when he uttered the "10 years" line in "Be Our Guest". You know what? That works for me, I will happily buy it. Time measurement is remarkably plastic; it's like when people say they "the other day" (which could mean 2 days ago, last week, last month, 2011, when-the-hell-ever) or "I haven't seen so-n'-so 'in a minute'" (see above).

So 1991's Beauty and the Beast isn't perfect... I adore it anyway. Movies aren't supposed to be perfect, and I think remaking them is a waste of time, because it's not as if the remakes won't have flaws.

I hope I never see a movie that nitpickers think is flawless, it would most likely be searingly dull.

[Spartan Girl]

40 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I think you mean beast?🤪 Technically he is the same-but he’d changed in that he was no longer a selfish, narcissistic asshole.

It’s also my my favorite. I’m not trying to pick it apart, but just noticed that line and the 10 years and scratched my head.

D'oh! You're right that's what I meant. 

[bmoore4026]

OK.  Frozen.  Frozen.  Frozen.  Frozen.  Frozen, chosen, closin', blowzen.  I think I wrote that last one subconsciously.

I have a couple of issues with Frozen:

1) Hans being revealed to be evil at the last minute.  The very thought of it makes me wretch.  It's as if the people who made it realized "Oh, crap, we need a villain in these things and Elsa can't be the bad guy anymore!"  This is one thing The Snow Queen has over Frozen in that it has a clear cut villain and it ironically isn't the titular character but Satan.  He creates a mirror that laughs and mocks goodness and soon it shatters in a billion tiny pieces.  When ever someone gets a shard in the eye and in the heart, The Snow Queen comes for them because they can no longer live in a world of warmth.

2) Come to think of it, one could see the trolls as the unintentional bad guys as they are the ones who showed that vague prophecy and altered Anna's memories of Elsa.  The prophecy caused the king and queen to shut Elsa away from the world and to fear herself and what she was and the memory wipe made Anna cruelly innocent in her constant asking of Elsa to build a snowman with her.

3) Kristoff.  Why make him so gross and uncouth?  How is that appealing?  No, him riding to the rescue on Sven doesn't endear me to him.  Why did the makers have to be so hellbent in subverting the prince trope?

4) Why have either Hans or Kristoff in it at all?  In the original Snow Queen story, the heroine is helped by a princess, a bandit girl, and women from Lapland and Finalnd.  Only an old woman hinders the heroine's journey.  Frozen could all have been about Anna getting help from a bandit girl and two Finnish women and make an all woman story (with some men sprinkled but not really affecting the plot), but they had to include guys.  God, I sound like a commentor on Jezebel.

So what did I like?  I liked Anna's resolve, I liked that Anna realized she's partially responsible for what Elsa has been through.  I liked that true love came from familial love rather than romantic love, much like the love between friends saves the day in the original story, I don't find Olaf that annoying (controversial, I know). Sven is adorable. And I love Elsa.  Really, she's amazing.  I sympathize with her being shut off from other people (in my case, figuratively as I'm on the Autism Spectrum and can't really make real life attachments), I think "Let It Go" is one of the best songs ever even though it's been played to death, and I like that she's able to come to terms with who she is.

Oh, and I loved the Frozen crossover with Once Upon a Time.  It was fun and I even tolerated Kristoff.

What should I watch next?  I've never watched The Lion King but it feels weird watching that around Christmas and I associate Africa with heat and summer and all that warm stuff.  Or Mary Poppins?  Can we talk about live action Disney films here, too?

[Snow Apple]

On 11/18/2019 at 11:52 AM, Wiendish Fitch said:

Second this. I adore Ever After, and I had zero problem with there being a nice stepsister because

1. It created an interesting dynamic, and it gave Danielle (our "Cinderella") a much needed sister figure.

2. Watching Jacqueline grow a spine and stand up to her awful mother and sister was cathartic and rewarding AF. 

3. Melanie Lynskey played her beautifully.

Bonus? I like that Jacqueline is brunette (I hate the "blondes are good and brunettes are evil" trope).

A bit late to the Ever After discussion, but what I like about the movie is that they acknowledge the folk tale of the Cinderella story exist.

The movie was all about one of Danielle's descendant telling the amazed Grimm brothers the real story of the little ash girl.

Edited December 5, 2019 by Snow Apple
spelling

[Spartan Girl]

13 hours ago, bmoore4026 said:

1) Hans being revealed to be evil at the last minute.  The very thought of it makes me wretch.  It's as if the people who made it realized "Oh, crap, we need a villain in these things and Elsa can't be the bad guy anymore!"  This is one thing The Snow Queen has over Frozen in that it has a clear cut villain and it ironically isn't the titular character but Satan.  He creates a mirror that laughs and mocks goodness and soon it shatters in a billion tiny pieces.  When ever someone gets a shard in the eye and in the heart, The Snow Queen comes for them because they can no longer live in a world of warmth.

I don't think it was last minute at all.  Watching the movie again in hindsight it was obvious that he was playing her from the beginning.  "I love crazy!" "That's what I was going to say!"  Yeah. Right. Sure.

13 hours ago, bmoore4026 said:

2) Come to think of it, one could see the trolls as the unintentional bad guys as they are the ones who showed that vague prophecy and altered Anna's memories of Elsa.  The prophecy caused the king and queen to shut Elsa away from the world and to fear herself and what she was and the memory wipe made Anna cruelly innocent in her constant asking of Elsa to build a snowman with her.

The trolls could have been more specific, but they weren't the ones that chose to isolate Anna and Elsa and convince Elsa to suppress her powers and make her miserable.  That's on the parents.  The fact that they "meant well" doesn't mean a lick of spit -- parents that send their kids to conversion therapy think they "mean well" and we all know how that turns out.

[Katy M]

15 hours ago, bmoore4026 said:

1) Hans being revealed to be evil at the last minute.  The very thought of it makes me wretch.  It's as if the people who made it realized "Oh, crap, we need a villain in these things and Elsa can't be the bad guy anymore!"  This is one thing The Snow Queen has over Frozen in that it has a clear cut villain and it ironically isn't the titular character but Satan.  He creates a mirror that laughs and mocks goodness and soon it shatters in a billion tiny pieces.  When ever someone gets a shard in the eye and in the heart, The Snow Queen comes for them because they can no longer live in a world of warmth.

I think he was just a more subtle bad guy. More in the lines of a mystery than an obvious, "he's the bad guy" all the way through.  I liked it.  I can't remember if I was surprised or not, but I agree with @Spartan Girl that it's obvious in hindsight.