Disney Films

[Spartan Girl]

I loved Ichabod and Mr. Toad!  Bing Crosby may have been an SOB, but his songs were catchy as heck and "Ichabod Crane" was no exception.

12 hours ago, bmoore4026 said:

Ichabod and Lumiere.  They're both womanizers though Lumiere is mostly a flirt while Ichabod usually has an ulterior motive in his wooing, especially in regards to Katrina.  He care more about her father's estate than her.

I thought Ichabod was similar to Belle, at least in the sense that he reads while walking during his title song.  Yeah, maybe I should have felt more sorry for Ichabod being led on by Katrina, but he was a gold-digger, so that kind of evens it out, LOL.

[Dandesun]

Disney actually did a fairly accurate telling of 'The Legend of Sleepy Hollow' which is kind of cool. For the longest time I didn't see the whole thing because it only showed up on things like 'Disney's Halloween Treat' where it spliced together a bunch of scenes from various movies (Snow White, Night on Bald Mountain from Fantasia, the Wizards' Duel from Sword in the Stone, etc) into a Halloween special. So we just got the Headless Horseman song and then the ride/chase through the woods up to the flaming pumpkin thrown through the bridge.

I'm not going to get into any real life implications regarding Bing. He died in the 70s (which I remember very specifically when it came to Christmas time that year) and, dammit, I love his voice and will watch the shit out of both Ichabod and Mr. Toad AND White Christmas. They're holiday necessities.

Plus, I love his narration. I mean, I&MrT was stellar all around there with Basil Rathbone taking on the first part with Bing bringing up the latter. That being said, the Wind in the Willows part is NOT very accurate because Walt thought all the Rat and Mole subplots were too boring. *shrug* Although I do think it's hilarious that the ride at Disneyland culminates in you getting hit by a train and going to hell. 

ANYWAY... Sleepy Hollow. Disney's one of the few that actually portrays Ichabod accurately as a total gold digger. Although Brom is portrayed as being boisterous and fond of mischief and practical jokes but without malice, he does want to beat up Ichabod while in the actual story he so obviously outclasses Ichabod physically that his sense of fairness won't let him engage directly. He resorts to practical jokes and such to try to keep Ichabod away from Katrina, not physical force.

Speaking of, has ANY other adaptation of Sleepy Hollow portrayed Brom fairly? I can't think of any. And that's kind of... uncool. He's really not a bad guy. At worst, he's Ichabod's antagonist but Ichabod is flighty, gluttonous, covets Katrina's inheritance more than her and deeply superstitious. Not exactly hero material. And then there's the ending which is kind of awesome because... what happened?

Was the Horseman Brom in disguse to chase him away? Was he real? Did the Horseman spirit Ichabod away or was he just chased off to go to another town? The story itself is far more ambiguous but that's the point... those small towns in the colonies... whispers turn into something. And having lived in Connecticut briefly and spending an autumn there when I was in the 2nd grade... things get CREEPY AS FUCK when the sun goes down. 

The chase scene is tremendous and the build up of tension equally so.  My favorite shots are the cloud 'hands' closing over the moon and the view when Ichabod looks behind him as the path through the forest seems to collapse on itself to shut him off from the open fields as he goes deeper into the hollow.

Absolutely one of my favorites.

Also, I went on a Halloween Hayride at Disney World where we got chased by the Headless Horseman and it was exactly the right kind of scare for me... I am a 100% bonafide wimp when it comes to scary things. This was great.

Edited October 31, 2019 by Dandesun

[Wiendish Fitch]

Re: Ichabod and Mr. Toad

This movie is wonderful, and what impresses me is the star cast! I mean, Bing Crosby and Basil Rathbone were huge, huge stars, and that they lent their talents to an animated film decades before it became cool to do so is pretty extraordinary. I also love that Mr. Toad is voiced by Eric Blore, the "veddy British" character actor who graced the screen in marvelous classics such as Top Hat and The Lady Eve.

But Ichabod is the real standout, in no small part to Der Bingle's fabulous narration. I realize that he's a problematic figure, but Crosby's been dead for over 40 years, can't hurt anyone anymore, so we're free to separate the man from the artist.

The Headless Horseman sequence is brilliant and pretty much flawless in terms of tension, thrills, and even pitch black humor. There are stakes, and it's definitely scary as hell, but you manage to laugh through your gnawed nails. Too many try and fail to balance horror and humor (to be fair, we can't all be Jordan Peele). 

I agree it was gutsy to portray Ichabod as a complete and utter douchebag, albeit a very amusing one (what I wouldn't give for his metabolism). I stubbornly maintain that Brom Bones was the Headless Horseman and just wanted to scare off Ichabod and have Katrina for himself (she seemed to prefer him anyway).

[Dandesun]

Ichabod may have just had the misfortune of stumbling into a sexual power play game between Katrina and Brom. Since Brom was portrayed as well liked, generous, handsome, square jawed, a bit rough around the edges but not cruel or excessively mean he was obviously the Most Eligible Bachelor. Meanwhile, Katrina was pretty, pert, clever and wealthy... but not wanting Brom to just think he could win her hand just by standing there because he was head and shoulders above everyone else.

Enter Ichabod: intelligent, willowy, sophisticated, a great dancer and completely oblivious to the sexual tension between Katrina and Brom. All the ladies love him for his charm and probably bright shiny newness. All of this makes him primed for Katrina to flirt with him to put Brom in his place. Of course, Ichabod's also a gluttonous, cowardly, gold digging douchebag soooo....

I suppose the irony is that at the Van Tassel party Brom ends up proving himself. Okay, he can't dance like Ichabod and he has to give that one to the schoolmaster but when he gets up and performs the Headless Horseman story. Come on. He totally wins the whole night. The entire room is transfixed, the story/song is AMAZING, he completely freaks out Ichabod (and Katrina sees it) and caps it all off by throwing a pumpkin into the fireplace.

SHOWMANSHIP!!!

@Wiendish Fitch is absolutely right about the Horseman sequence because aside from the tension and the terror it is also absolutely funny. The bits where Ichabod gets his neck caught on a treebranch (twice!!) and spins slowly over it, limbs flailing, never fails to make me laugh.

Also, considering the way Katrina kissed Brom at their wedding? Yeah, there's no question who she wanted.

[Annber03]

1 hour ago, Dandesun said:

For the longest time I didn't see the whole thing because it only showed up on things like 'Disney's Halloween Treat' where it spliced together a bunch of scenes from various movies (Snow White, Night on Bald Mountain from Fantasia, the Wizards' Duel from Sword in the Stone, etc) into a Halloween special.

I remember that, too. That's where they used to show the skeleton dance, too, right?

The skeleton coming right up to the camera freaked me out a bit as a kid. 

[Popples]

I have to come clean, I've didn't see the part with the Headless Horseman chasing after Ichabod until I was 26 or 27 because I would always hide behind pillows or run out of the room as a child. Even then I was tempted to watch it between my fingers.

[Spartan Girl]

21 hours ago, Dandesun said:

Ichabod may have just had the misfortune of stumbling into a sexual power play game between Katrina and Brom. Since Brom was portrayed as well liked, generous, handsome, square jawed, a bit rough around the edges but not cruel or excessively mean he was obviously the Most Eligible Bachelor. Meanwhile, Katrina was pretty, pert, clever and wealthy... but not wanting Brom to just think he could win her hand just by standing there because he was head and shoulders above everyone else.

Enter Ichabod: intelligent, willowy, sophisticated, a great dancer and completely oblivious to the sexual tension between Katrina and Brom. All the ladies love him for his charm and probably bright shiny newness. All of this makes him primed for Katrina to flirt with him to put Brom in his place. Of course, Ichabod's also a gluttonous, cowardly, gold digging douchebag soooo....

I suppose the irony is that at the Van Tassel party Brom ends up proving himself. Okay, he can't dance like Ichabod and he has to give that one to the schoolmaster but when he gets up and performs the Headless Horseman story. Come on. He totally wins the whole night. The entire room is transfixed, the story/song is AMAZING, he completely freaks out Ichabod (and Katrina sees it) and caps it all off by throwing a pumpkin into the fireplace.

SHOWMANSHIP!!!

Exactly.  Katrina was just basically using Ichabod to get to Brom.  Ichabod never stood a snowball's chance in hell.

Am I the only one that thinks Katrina's design is almost exactly like Cinderella's?  Obviously the personality is vastly different, but still.

[Wiendish Fitch]

3 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Am I the only one that thinks Katrina's design is almost exactly like Cinderella's?  Obviously the personality is vastly different, but still.

They are very similar, now that you mentioned it. Katrina's face is ever so slightly rounder , but that's really the only difference.

Katrina is actually one of the more complex Disney female characters from that time period, isn't she? While she's certainly not evil (and Ichabod is after her money), she definitely knows and relishes the power she has over men, and isn't afraid to manipulate them for her own amusement.

Let me be clear: I ain't judgin'. She doesn't cause any real harm, and she sure got what she wanted in the end so, hey, more power to her!

[bmoore4026]

On 10/31/2019 at 12:40 PM, Dandesun said:

I'm not going to get into any real life implications regarding Bing. He died in the 70s (which I remember very specifically when it came to Christmas time that year) and, dammit, I love his voice and will watch the shit out of both Ichabod and Mr. Toad AND White Christmas. They're holiday necessities.

Was the Horseman Brom in disguse to chase him away? Was he real?

Bing Crosby died the same year as Joan Crawford, in fact.  Yes, it's best not to go too deeply into their parenting skills, but you can't deny that they were both amazing talented individuals (Crosby with his singing and Ms. Crawford with her acting).

Several people believe that it was Brom that chased Ichabod out of Sleepy Hollow as the Headless Horseman, but I'm not one of these people.  Brom had his fun in scaring the hell out of Ichabod (right out of his shoes at one point) during the Headless Horseman song, but that was more than enough for him and even Katrina.  I think Ichabod encountered the real deal.  There's a point where he gets a good look down down the top of the Horseman's cloak only for the ghoul to laugh evilly.  Whatever Ichabod saw couldn't have been good.  And I don't think Brom would have chucked that jack-o-lantern at Ichabod.  Brom was a prankster that didn't involved direct physical contact.  Also, when every he tried up get his hands on Ichabod, it was always through some football jock maneuver. 

Edited November 2, 2019 by bmoore4026

[bmoore4026]

Change of plans.  The next Disney film I'm talking about is The Little Mermaid.  After that, I'm going into my feelings toward Alice in Wonderland.

Also, may I redirect your attention to this podcast called DIS-Order.  Bares repeating.

Edited November 6, 2019 by bmoore4026

[bmoore4026]

OK.  My thoughts on The Little Mermaid.

First, Ariel she didn't sell her voice to get a man she barely knew.  She always wanted to be human and she just happened to find a human being that was really, really, really good looking.  She never saw humans up close and personal before.  It just so happens that the human happens to be a prince.  Regardless,  I think some people would be upset over whatever man she saved even if he were a fat dumpy guy.  But, no.  She saved a prince.  And what some people don't think is that fairy tale princes are (mostly) gentlemen who wouldn't dream of any improper behavior or hold prejudices.  Hell, in comparison to the original story's prince, Prince Eric is a freaking saint.  The prince in the original story dresses up the humanized mermaid in a page boy's outfit and has her dance a lot even though the smallest of steps makes her feel like she's walking on knives and causes her feet to bleed.

Prejudice.  That's the one of the messages of the story, isn't it?  Merpeople are forbidden contact with the human world and I've always felt it wasn't some recent development.  This has been institutionalized isolationism and xenophobia that's been going on for God knows how long.  This have been passed on from monarch to monarch.  Triton is basically Namor the Sub-Mariner only he wants to prevent contact with the surface world while the Marvel anti-hero usually invades it from time to time.

But Ariel's different.  Ariel loves the human world.  As her song says (which should have been nominated for a Best Song Oscar, Mr. Katzenberg), "I want to be where the people are.  I want to see.  Want to see them dancin'.  Strolling around on those...what do you call them?  Oh!  Feet.  Up where they walk, up where they run, up where they stay all day in the sun, wandering free.  Wish I could be Part of That World".  In other words, Ariel doesn't want to be a mermaid.  In fact, she hates it.  She likes human things.  She wants to do human things.  She wants to live and die a human.  Is it any wonder this movie resonates so much with the LGBTQ community.  I've felt this way.  I liked girly things and princesses and Disney films.  I wanted to stay a guy but can't even straight guys like princesses and not feel ashamed of it?  Or Disney?  I didn't want to play sports.  I hated sports, even (except for the uniforms).  I didn't like boy stuff like playing war or wrestling or getting dirty.  I liked my world of fairy tales and femininity.  (Also of cartoons and Mama's Family, but I don't want to get too off topic),

(Also, how has no one mentioned how crazy freaking strong Ariel is?  All that living under the sea must have given her near super strength.  I mean, she pushes back a boulder that serves as the door to her grotto with ease and is able to drag an drowning man who must be 170 lbs maximum back up to the surface with one arm and to dry land without getting tired.  Forget Eric's kingdom!  Ariel should be part of the Goddamn Avengers.  So should Donald Duck, but I digress.

Now, "Under the Sea" is a good song and everything, but "Part of Your World" is the best song.  I'm conflicted over if it's the best Disney song or if "Feed the Birds" is.  As for this movie, "Poor Unfortunate Souls" "Part of Your World reprise" and "Kiss the Girl" are above "Under the Sea", at least for me (hey, that rhymed). 

And Ursula is delicious as a villain.  She just oozes evil, she is pure camp, and she is absolutely evil and I love it.  That they patterned Ursula after Divine in Pink Flamingos is a stroke of genius.  Guess that makes Flotsam and Jetsam Crackers and Cotton.  Also, Ursula wouldn't be Ursula is she weren't voiced by Pat Carroll.  Had they gone with Elaine Stritch, it just wouldn't have fit.  I mean, imagine Elaine Stritch's voice coming out of Ursula when she turns into Cthulhu at the end. 

Speaking of the end, I love how they brought back the ship Ariel was searching at the beginning to be the one that Eric uses to kill Ursula.

Also, can we give it up for Prince Eric.  Prince Eric is the man, was the man, will always be the man.  Not only does he make sure everyone is safely off the ship when it catches fire, he goes back to save his dog.  It put his own life at risk to save Max.  Then there's the whole climax.  "Grimm, I lost her once.  I'm not going to lose her again."  Oh, my God, I got chills just writing that.  And when he dives in the water and is able to hit Ursula in the arm with a freaking harpoon?  Eric is more than a prince, he's a freaking king!  And then he gets on the wrecked ship, steers it along a whirlpool, and rams it into Ursula's big gut!  Eric needs to be on the Avengers, too!  He can't keep a pair of boots on his feet to save his life and apparently doesn't believe in socks, but who the hell cares?

And Triton's last lines in the film: "How much I'm going to miss her." choke me up every.  Time.  That and "I love you, daddy".  Yeah.  Yeah.  Yeah.  The original story is dark and sad and she turns into sea foam because there can be no happiness on the internet (though people conveniently leave out the part where the mermaid becomes a "daughter of the air"), but the animated movie's ending is beautifully bittersweet, too.  Ariel gets to be a human but she'll never see her family again.  Also, she's going to need to learn all the proper terms of the items she had in her grotto and what they're used for.  Oh, that's another thing.  Ariel got all the crap into her grotto using her super strength.  Why is she hated on again?

I'm already hating the remake.  Not because Ariel is going to be played by a black girl, but because they're going to give Triton a backstory on why he hates humans so much, I'm certain of it. A tragic backstory no doubt involving the death of his wife and Ariel's mother.  Systematic prejudice doesn't need a reason.  It just is.  Also, they're probably going to make Triton and Ursula siblings and how he wanted to maintain a patriarchy and framed her for witchcraft and she went on the run or some crap.  And Ursula will be played by Melissa McCarthy if rumors are correct.  I love you Disney, but sometimes I want to bust Mickey in the freaking nose.

Next time, I'll be getting to Alice in Wonderland.  What I like, what I don't like, and my thoughts on Tim Burton's trashing of it.

[Spartan Girl]

21 minutes ago, bmoore4026 said:

Ariel gets to be a human but she'll never see her family again. 

Well, seeing as how Triton's revised his opinion on humans at the end, I think maybe he might have lifted the ban on the surface world so that he and the sisters could maybe visit once in a while. Ariel would have to be close to the shoreline, but hey they could make it work.

23 minutes ago, bmoore4026 said:

I'm already hating the remake.  Not because Ariel is going to be played by a black girl, but because they're going to give Triton a backstory on why he hates humans so much, I'm certain of it. A tragic backstory no doubt involving the death of his wife and Ariel's mother.  Systematic prejudice doesn't need a reason.  It just is.  Also, they're probably going to make Triton and Ursula siblings and how he wanted to maintain a patriarchy and framed her for witchcraft and she went on the run or some crap.  And Ursula will be played by Melissa McCarthy if rumors are correct.  I love you Disney, but sometimes I want to bust Mickey in the freaking nose.

Let's not jump to conclusions just yet. Rob Marshall did a great job with Mary Poppins and I trust Lin-Manuel Miranda. Plus, it can't be any worse than what ABC did last night, lol. I do wish Queen Latifah would be cast as Ursula in the movie because she did a great job, but nobody can top Pat Caroll.

[Annber03]

50 minutes ago, bmoore4026 said:

Then there's the whole climax.  "Grimm, I lost her once.  I'm not going to lose her again."  Oh, my God, I got chills just writing that.  

The best part about that is the fact that he does this after Ariel transforms back into a mermaid right before his very eyes, and after he witnesses all the craziness with Vanessa turning back into Ursula and snatching her off the boat and whatnot. Most guys would see all of that and be like, "...okay, WTF?" and just distance themselves from the craziness altogether. 

But not Eric. Nope, he just grabs a boat and heads right off to fight Ursula and rescue Ariel. No hesitation, nothing.  

Quote

And Triton's last lines in the film: "How much I'm going to miss her." choke me up every.  Time.  That and "I love you, daddy".  Yeah.  Yeah.  Yeah.  

Same. Tears in my eyes every time, without fail. 

Alice in Wonderland is one of the earliest Disney movies I remember seeing as a kid (that was my dad's favorite Disney film, just 'cause of how weird it was :p), so I'm looking forward to your analysis of that one 😄 (I've been enjoying your takes on the films thus far, too). I've seen the Tim Burton version, but just once, and it was a number of years ago, so I can't really recall a whole lot about it right offhand. 

[bmoore4026]

Oh, I forgot one more thing about The Little Mermaid:  It saved the company.  Without Ariel, there would be no Frozen.  Kiss Ariel's tail, Elsa!  KISS HER TAAAAAAAAAAAAAIL!

[Snow Apple]

I'm old enough to remember Siskel and Ebert gush over The Little Mermaid. Ebert especially went on and on. I remember thinking "wow." Then I saw the movie and thought "Woooooooowwwww!"

It's still my favorite because it was the first of the renaissance and completely unexpected.

Edited November 7, 2019 by Snow Apple

[Annber03]

That was the first Disney movie I believe I actually saw in the theater. I was five, and I went with my mom and my grandma :). 

[Spartan Girl]

On November 6, 2019 at 7:19 PM, bmoore4026 said:

The prince in the original story dresses up the humanized mermaid in a page boy's outfit and has her dance a lot even though the smallest of steps makes her feel like she's walking on knives and causes her feet to

Not to mention they let her sleep on a pillow outside his room because she's sooooooooo devoted to him. Spare me! What is she, a dog??! Ariel, on the other hand, got that fabulous suite with the four poster and balcony!

[Wiendish Fitch]

30 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Not to mention they let her sleep on a pillow outside his room because she's sooooooooo devoted to him. Spare me! What is she, a dog??! Ariel, on the other hand, got that fabulous suite with the four poster and balcony!

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: I think Disney improved Hans Christian Anderson's tale. Fight me.

[bmoore4026]

On 11/10/2019 at 5:14 PM, Wiendish Fitch said:

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: I think Disney improved Hans Christian Anderson's tale. Fight me.

This is the internet, though.  There can be no happiness on the internet.

[bmoore4026]

Well, Disney+ launched today and all I can say is TAKE ALL MY MONEY, DISNEY!  TAKE ALL THE MONEY!

Don't know why they didn't include the original Cinderella with their animated movies, though.  I didn't see it among them.  Got those sequels, though.  I heard the third one is actually quite decent and the prince is given an actual personality.  Something of a wacky swashbuckler from what that meme of him jumping out the window tells me.

They have some of the shorts.  Don't know if we'll be getting more.  Hopefully Disney won't try to hide the edginess of some of them like "How to be a Detective" or the one where Donald thinks he's been cut in half and contemplates suicide.  Same thing that happens with Daisy in another short.

Either way, I'm happy as a clam.

EDIT: They do have Cinderella.  I had to look it up.

Edited November 12, 2019 by bmoore4026

[AimingforYoko]

52 minutes ago, bmoore4026 said:

TAKE ALL MY MONEY, DISNEY!  TAKE ALL THE MONEY!

Yes, I believe that is their mission statement.

[chitowngirl]

But do they have Song of the South?

[AimingforYoko]

That's a big no, but they did not edit the crows out of Dumbo. They do have a disclaimer in the description.

[bmoore4026]

Well, I rewatched Alice in Wonderland and was instantly reminded why I love it so much.  Kathryn Beaumont is Alice.  She had the mannerisms down, she sounds as I think Alice would sound.  She's hard to top in the Alice category.  Kind of wish they went with Walt's original idea of having a live action Alice interacting with cartoon characters as the footage of Ms. Beaumont doing character models shows that she could have pulled of a live version of the character very easily.

It's a shame that Walt did much care for this film as it's this version that all other adaptations of the Lewis Carroll books are measured against.  "Does it have the whimsy as the Disney film?"  "Is it as colorful as the Disney film?"  "Does the girl playing Alice come off as Alice?"  Really, this movie is a tough act to follow in terms of other adaptations.  Even my second favorite version of Alice in Wonderland, the two part Irwin Allen mini-series, seems to pale and that version was closer to the books than this film.

And it's hard to top the supporting cast.  Ed Wynn, Jerry Colonna, Richard Haydn, Verna Felton, Bill Thompson, Joseph Kearns, Sterling Holloway.  They all rocked in the parts they were in.

Now, there are flaws in the film.  I hated the flowers.  Haaaaaaaaated them.  Hated that song.  Hated that Alice let them treat her the way they did.  Who cares if you're only three inches high, Alice?  You still could have picked them.

The whole Tulgy Wood segment seemed to grind the film to a screeching halt, too.  I think it was put in so people could go to the bathroom. 

Also, I was a bit disappointed that Alice had to rely on the mushrooms to grow in order to confront the queen rather than just getting fed up with Wonderland and growing that way.

As I said, this is the Alice all other versions are measured against.  So how does Tim Burton's version stand up?  Well, I remember Helena Bonham Carter being awesome as The Red Queen but the rest is just bleck.  The Alice is basically a Graham Cracker with blond hair.  Johnny Depp is just doing his usual Johnny Depp shtick.  Stephen Fry, Anne Hathaway, Alan Rickman, and several others of the supporting cast are just wasted on what amount to throw away characters.  And the psuedo-feminist tacked on message of going against what society expects of you as woman is undermined if Alice does what was prophecized for her to do and everyone is pushing her to do it.   Also,it's because of this movie that we have The Disney Remakes now, so thanks bunches Tim Burton, you and your weird hair and crap take on Superman with Nick Cage's horse face.

So what do I talk about next?  Well, remakes of Aladdin and Dumbo came out this year, so I'll talk about one and then the other, though I'm still not sure which to talk about first.  What to you think?

Edited November 14, 2019 by bmoore4026

[Annber03]

Like stated before, this is one of the first, if not the first, Disney movies I ever remember seeing, so it's always got a special place in my heart for that reason alone. The bit where Alice finds herself on that little red square while she's out in the woods and the road is slowly wiped away...there was a grocery store here in my town that my family used to go to a lot when I was little that had red square tiles spaced out on the floor. I always used to stand on one of those and pretend I was Alice :p. I used to quote the "Mustard? Let's not be silly!" bit and laugh at that all the time, and I got a kick out of Tweedledee and Tweedledum, too. 

Also, I have a doll (which a relative made and gave to me when I was two years old) that I named after Alice from this film. Her dress is red instead of blue, but she had an apron, blonde hair, and stockings, so therefore, Alice. I carried her everywhere with me. I lost her apron in a restaurant when I was a kid, and she's lost much of her hair in recent years and whatnot, but she's still one of my treasured possessions :).  

Plus, I just always loved stories about kids exploring weird places when I was little, so I think that's another reason I enjoy this movie. 

I'll agree about Depp pretty much just doing his usual thing in the remake. His character could be a relative of his version of Willy Wonka, basically. 

[Spartan Girl]

Tim Burton never should have been allowed in Wonderland. Ditto Depp's Bozo the Clown Hatter. But HBC was a great Red Queen...until the sequel gave her the stupid villain apologist back story.

I vote you do Aladdin next.

[Wiendish Fitch]

1 hour ago, bmoore4026 said:

As I said, this is the Alice all other versions are measured against.  So how does Tim Burton's version stand up?... The Alice is basically a Graham Cracker with blond hair. 

This? Is quite possibly the greatest description of Mia Wasikowska's acting I have ever seen. Bravo!

[BetterButter]

'Little Mermaid' Live-Action Remake Finds Its Prince Eric in Jonah Hauer-King

[chitowngirl]

When my daughter wanted to watch AIW, she always asked for the Allison movie. At first I was confused until she said Allison Wonderland. She thought that was her name!

[Wiendish Fitch]

24 minutes ago, chitowngirl said:

When my daughter wanted to watch AIW, she always asked for the Allison movie. At first I was confused until she said Allison Wonderland. She thought that was her name!

Have you ever read the children's book But Names Will Never Hurt Me? The synopsis might tickle your funny bone.

Never liked Alice in Wonderland or any version of it, save for Jan Svankmajer's deeply unsettling 1988 film, because he had the good sense to depict Wonderland as the miserable hellscape I always knew it to be.

I will never cease to be amazed that Uncle Walt included "The Walrus and the Carpenter" in his version. It's one of those stories that is unnerving when you're a kid, but fucking nightmarish when you're an adult. I think I read somewhere that part tends to get edited out when the movie is aired on network TV.

[Spartan Girl]

36 minutes ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

I will never cease to be amazed that Uncle Walt included "The Walrus and the Carpenter" in his version. It's one of those stories that is unnerving when you're a kid, but fucking nightmarish when you're an adult. I think I read somewhere that part tends to get edited out when the movie is aired on network TV.

Yeah, that was really disturbing, even for early Disney.

Comparing Mia's acting to a graham cracker is insulting to graham crackers.  Graham crackers have flavor!  LOL

14 hours ago, BetterButter said:

'Little Mermaid' Live-Action Remake Finds Its Prince Eric in Jonah Hauer-King

He's cute and he can sing.  I approve.

[Wiendish Fitch]

18 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Comparing Mia's acting to a graham cracker is insulting to graham crackers.  Graham crackers have flavor!  LOL

You're right... how about an unsalted saltine?

[tennisgurl]

One of my big problems with the Tim Burton movie was that it wasnt wacky and nonsensical enough! Wonderland should be strange and whimsical and be run on rules that dont make sense to anyone except for the denizens of Wonderland, that was the whole point! The Burton one just lacked any whimsy or quirkiness, it was just another Epic Fantasy movie but with some bits of Wonderland imagery here and there. The rules of the universe made too much sense! There were so many people talking about rules and prophesy, it just felt dull. Even the stuff from the actual books felt dull, and Wonderland should be many things, but dull isnt one of them!

[GHScorpiosRule]

Paging @scarynikki12!!! I signed up for Disney + streaming service and the first thing I watched tonight was the 1940 Fantasia! I had talked about this educational movie on Dinosaurs that I watched in elementary school, and couldn’t recall the name of it. Just that it was how animal life started and there was this amazing fight between T-Rex and Stegosaurus. And you were right, Scarynikki! It was from Fantasia!

The only difference is I think the Board of Education must have requested just the story of the Dinosaurs, because the movie I watched in school didn’t have Leopold, the Orchestra or music. There was a narrator who told the story. And he was the one who called Steggo “stupid” for engaging with Rex.

So, mystery solved! 😁😁 But I sure do feel like a CLASS A MAROON for thinking it was an independent movie made for schools.

But I still want the school version with the narrator!

And OMGEEE!!!! So many movies from my childhood! The Cat From Outer Space! is one I loved! And now I can also watch Ichabod and Mr. Toad and SO.MUCH.MORE!!! Price is TOTALLY worth it!😎😎😎😁😁😁

Edited November 14, 2019 by GHScorpiosRule

[bmoore4026]

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Paging @scarynikki12!!! I signed up for Disney + streaming service and the first thing I watched tonight was the 1940 Fantasia! I had talked about this educational movie on Dinosaurs that I watched in elementary school, and couldn’t recall the name of it. Just that it was how animal life started and there was this amazing fight between T-Rex and Stegosaurus. And you were right, Scarynikki! It was from Fantasia!

Rewatching Fantasia as an adult is remarkable.  As a kid, things go over your head.  But as a grown up, I appreciate all the painstaking effort went into it...and the things that I was surprised they kept in, like the angry harpy boobs during "The Night on Bald Mountain" sequence flying right at the screen.

On 11/12/2019 at 8:59 PM, BetterButter said:

'Little Mermaid' Live-Action Remake Finds Its Prince Eric in Jonah Hauer-King

He's cute.  I approve.  

9 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Comparing Mia's acting to a graham cracker is insulting to graham crackers.  Graham crackers have flavor!  LOL

How 'bout dry fish food flakes?

Edited November 14, 2019 by bmoore4026

[Scarlett45]

I am STILL giggling the next day after watching Lady & the Tramp on Disney+, “I cannot run in me kilt!!!!” - Jacquline (a gender bent Jacques) the Scottish accent was PRECIOUS omg it was adorable. 

[bmoore4026]

OK, so I saw the animated Dumbo.  Yes, the crows are more than a little racially insensitive.  However, I was more focused on how the circus, especially the other elephants, treated Dumbo with such prejudice just because he had big ears.  I sympathize with Dumbo.  I know what it feels like to be made fun of and shunned for something I have no control over or asked for.  I'm on the Autism Spectrum and that made me a prime target for bullying.  On top of that,  I was harassed for the assumption that I was a homosexual.  It turns out I am into guys, but the fact that I was bullied just on assumptions and no one was called out or punished for this by teachers or others on school staff cuts deeper than blade.

I don't have my own Timothy the Mouse to encourage me or be my friend.  Hell, I don't have a bunch of stereotypical crows being amazed at any hidden talents.  I did have a crap ton of stuck up "elephants" making my life hell.

Speaking of the elephants, I recognized Verna Felton's voice and I'm certain whoever was voicing Minnie Mouse at the time was also voicing one of the airheaded mean elephants, but who was the one voice the gossipy elephant?  She sounded familiar.  Was it Bea Benaderet? 

Also, does anyone have the roustabout song pop into their heads for no reason from time to time? 

What surprises me most about Dumbo is that it's the most cartoony of all the Disney canon.  Lots of anthropomorphized objects, self aware animals, humans drawn in exaggerated styles.  It's as close to a Looney Tunes type of cartoon that Walt Disney has ever come to.

Now, I haven't seen the live action remake.  I have, however, seen Lindsay Ellis' "Woke Disney" video and how the movie took some not so subtle jabs at Walt himself.  Indeed, they seemed like all out uppercuts.  Which begs the question - "Why does Disney hate Disney?"  Why are they trying to placate people who are going to hate them regardless for being a major conglomerate and, thus, "the enemy"?

Well, I've had my say.  Next up will be Aladdin.  I'm also wondering if I should watch Pocahontas since Thanksgiving is right around the corner.  Or would that be too tactless?

[Spartan Girl]

17 hours ago, bmoore4026 said:

I'm also wondering if I should watch Pocahontas since Thanksgiving is right around the corner.  Or would that be too tactless?

Maybe not so close to Thanksgiving...but you should do it at some point.

Burton's Dumbo wasn't as bad as his Wonderland but it was still unnecessary, seeing as how it focused more on the human characters than Dumbo.

Edited November 15, 2019 by Spartan Girl

[bmoore4026]

Well, today is officially the 30th anniversary of The Little Mermaid's release.  In the 30 Rock episode called "The Bubble", Liz tries to point out to Jon Hamm's character that he only thinks that he's good at stuff because he lives in a metaphorical bubble because of how hot he looks.  When she brings up sports, he mentions that Disney used footage of him when he was on his high school swim team to model Prince Eric.

For a time, I thought he was meaning how he looks like Prince Eric.  It wasn't until later that I realized that he was actually horrible at swimming, almost drowned, and no doubt had to be saved by a girl.  It was such a subtle joke and is now one of my favorite 30 Rock jokes.

[Annber03]

40 minutes ago, bmoore4026 said:

Well, today is officially the 30th anniversary of The Little Mermaid's release. 

...

Thanks, now I feel old :p. 

[Scarlett45]

On 11/15/2019 at 7:10 PM, Annber03 said:

...

Thanks, now I feel old :p. 

That was the first movie I ever saw in theaters. 

[Annber03]

I think it might've been mine, too. My mom told me about how she tried to take me to see Snow White when that got re-released in theaters, but I got scared during the previews, because one of the movies being advertised was some action movie with some extremely loud noises (my mom always wondered why they'd show an ad for a movie like that before a kid's film), and I hated loud noises as a kid. 

So I started crying, and during the whole time my mom was carrying me out of the theater, I kept yelling, "I WANT TO GO TO THE YELLOW CAR!" over and over (the car we had was yellow at the time, and I referred to everything by colors when I was really young, hence "yellow car" 😄). 

Sorry, Mom and all those theatergoers :p!

[GHScorpiosRule]

Why? WHY WHY WHY did I watch that ATROCITY  that was or rather, the “sequels” to Cinderella?? First it’s set in some medieval time, so Cinderella saying “Eww!” came off anachronistic as well as everything else. But that was the least of it. Everything from the assholish King to the animation to the “story” was horridhorridhorrid! Just as the one that gave that fugly, mean, bullying Anastasia her own HEA! None of them deserved it!!! UGh!!!🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

[bmoore4026]

6 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Why? WHY WHY WHY did I watch that ATROCITY  that was or rather, the “sequels” to Cinderella??

Yeah, the Disney sequels are a bit...well...they have no adequte word to describe them.  The third Cinderella movie isn't outright terrible.  The prince and Cinderella actually have to fight to get their happily ever after back.  Plus, the prince actually gets lines and a personality: quirky impulsive swashbuckler.  Also, he too has the mutant power to communicate with the animals.

Everything with Anastasia, I think, is a result of the movie Ever After, where one of the Danielle's stepsisters is also treated like dirt by her mother and beautiful stuck up sister, thus the put upon stepsister becomes Danielle's sort of ally.  Indeed, after the stepmother and mean stepsister get their comeuppance, the good stepsister becomes part of the royal court and is implied to be in love with the prince's friend.

While I'm not a fan of most of the Disney sequels, I like the Cinderella remake and how they made both stepsisters mean and nasty again is a reason along with being comedic.  We also got to see that Sophie McShera and Holliday Grainger are pretty good comedic actresses.  They little Charleston dance they do when the captain and Grand Duke show up with the glass slipper is hilarious.

Edited November 17, 2019 by bmoore4026

[starri]

1 hour ago, bmoore4026 said:

Yeah, the Disney sequels are a bit...well...they have no adequte word to describe them. 

I liked Aladdin and the King of Thieves.  It actually has a good story, and Robin Williams' return after he and Disney made up helped immeasurably.

Everything else is a trash-fire.

[Trini]

3 hours ago, starri said:

I liked Aladdin and the King of Thieves.  It actually has a good story, and Robin Williams' return after he and Disney made up helped immeasurably.

Everything else is a trash-fire.

I feel like that Christmas-themed DTV 'sequel' to Beauty & the Beast was also decent; but I've only seen it once and it was decades ago. [*google-fu*] This one: Beauty and the Beast: The Enchanted Christmas

[Chyromaniac]

I know I’m a bit late to the Little Mermaid discussion, but I just wanted to say that “Part of That World” is probably my favorite Disney song.  The way Ashman’s lyrics play off each other and Menken’s music is just magical, with all the little pauses, and internal rhymes and alliteration.  I don’t generally have a head for lyrics, but I spent an afternoon listening to cover versions online, and I basically memorized them.  And, it all but introduced the broadway concept of just having the lead actress sing about her feelings (the “want” song) to Disney- something they’ve done for practically every Princess since.  And of course, it’s the song the execs wanted to cut for time...

[GHScorpiosRule]

18 hours ago, bmoore4026 said:

Yeah, the Disney sequels are a bit...well...they have no adequte word to describe them.  The third Cinderella movie isn't outright terrible.  The prince and Cinderella actually have to fight to get their happily ever after back.  Plus, the prince actually gets lines and a personality: quirky impulsive swashbuckler.  Also, he too has the mutant power to communicate with the animals.

Everything with Anastasia, I think, is a result of the movie Ever After, where one of the Danielle's stepsisters is also treated like dirt by her mother and beautiful stuck up sister, thus the put upon stepsister becomes Danielle's sort of ally.  Indeed, after the stepmother and mean stepsister get their comeuppance, the good stepsister becomes part of the royal court and is implied to be in love with the prince's friend.

It's just as awful. Because you have to throw in the continuity gaffe and the timey-whimy nonsense, which resulted in the first year of their marriage just gone. We already had That twat Anastasia with her HEA in Cinderella II with the baker which took place a few months after Cinderella married; but when III opens a year later, she's back at Cinderella's  childhood home, stuck with cleaning it along with her bitch of a sister. It's HER fault that the first meeting and first year of Cinderella's marriage was erased. And boo-fucking-hoo, this bully and nasty piece of work wanted someone to wuv her. And I will forever RESENT Ever After for making her character a nice person. Because she wasn't.

And while I like Christopher Daniel Barnes, I didn't like any of his performances as the Prince--PRINCE! Does he not have a name? because his lines were too modern. "I got nothin'" Really? That phrase was around in the 18th century? I'm assuming 18th, because wasn't that when the Waltz was introduced? I wish they'd casted an actor with a more...adult speaking voice, like in the original. Which, I forgot--Prince had like two or three lines!

And so much rage black out in trying to redeem Anastasia's ass, by having the King tell her that his wife was also an awful dancer with BIG feet. He was a loving father in the original and even in the horrid III, so I don't understand turning him into the pompous ARSEHOLE in II, which took place just as they returned from their honeymoon.

Watching Sleeping Beauty and Cinderella back to back, I noticed how Maleficent and "Lady" Tremaine's features were somewhat similar. 

[Robert Lynch]

So since this is live action for Little Mermaid, does that mean the animals/fishes are going to have that realistic CGI look that was prevalent in the recent Lion King? Not so cartoonish, but more realistic?

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

It's just as awful. Because you have to throw in the continuity gaffe and the timey-whimy nonsense, which resulted in the first year of their marriage just gone. We already had That twat Anastasia with her HEA in Cinderella II with the baker which took place a few months after Cinderella married; but when III opens a year later, she's back at Cinderella's  childhood home, stuck with cleaning it along with her bitch of a sister. It's HER fault that the first meeting and first year of Cinderella's marriage was erased. And boo-fucking-hoo, this bully and nasty piece of work wanted someone to wuv her. And I will forever RESENT Ever After for making her character a nice person. Because she wasn't.

Ever After was a seperate, non Disney movie, and that stepsister was DEFINITELY not Anastasia.

19 hours ago, bmoore4026 said:

Yeah, the Disney sequels are a bit...well...they have no adequte word to describe them.

"Garbage" might be a good start.  Except for the Aladdin sequels and The Lion King 1 1/2 because it was funny, but THAT'S IT.