RiddleyWalker December 3, 2014 Share December 3, 2014 (edited) Yeah - but he could essentially do this by simply talking in his interviews about ABBIE. And then Ichabbie - but he's still SELLING Katrina! I'm so sick of it - he doesn't get it at ALL and he has literally DESTROYED this show. They need to do rewrites. Now. Just rewrite at least the back 4 episodes. The fact that there are TWO Katrina centered episodes in the back half and we've only seen ONE Abbie-centric episode makes me so angry I could spit. What a bait and switch. I feel so betrayed. And hurt, actually. It's like, as a WoC I should have expected this to happen, but I trusted again. Stupid. I sympathize, Phoenics, I really do. :( I suppose I'm trying to be optimistic here and hoping that Goffman et al. have seen the errors of their ways. I truly hope he's replaced and an announcement is made quite soon about that but that may be too much to ask. In the absence of his replacement I hold on to the hope that Goffman (perhaps like Henry?) can change his spots and be receptive to the majority of fans who are fed up with the CFD, fed up with Katrina and recognize the strengths of the show in season 1 and build on that…i.e. the Abbie/Ichabod relationship, badass villains and fun history and humor. Edited December 3, 2014 by RiddleyWalker 1 Link to comment
phoenics December 3, 2014 Share December 3, 2014 Check out Orlando Jones' interview with Variety. Doesn't take much reading between the lines to sense what's up with the showrunners. http://variety.com/2014/tv/news/sleepy-hollow-postmortem-midseason-deaths-1201368249/ I think this shows an interview with Wiseman - I didn't see an interview with OJ - is this the right link? I'd love to get his take honestly. Link to comment
Yolapukka December 3, 2014 Share December 3, 2014 No one fucking cares about Katrina, you have destroyed your show arguing this point with an audience repeatedly telling you how much they don't give a shit, and if you've spent two seasons Intentionally portraying an "unrealized" character you deserve to be fired/cancelled. Katrina was the hill you chose to die on. RME. So true. Someone a little more self-aware might have realized that if he still needs to "explain" Katrina in interviews and show why she is significant by writng the show around her in the second season then at this point it's because her character is a hash. She's been depicted as little more than a pretty cipher. I wouldn't be surprised if a big chunk of his motivation for giving her more backstory is fan insistence that she's dishonest, shady and the sincerety of her attachments is dubious at best, like if he explains those comments away, the fans that haven't taken to her will go; Ahh! Now we get it, she's a really nice person, that's so interesting! Bottom line, she was a peripheral character in the first season, if the show-runner thinks she should be shoved into a lead role. is it because he thinks the original leads were lacking? Because that's the inference I get from his enthusiasm for Katrina at their expense in interviews. I find his attitude towards Crane is only slightly less dismissive than his hollow appreciation of Abbie. 5 Link to comment
phoenics December 3, 2014 Share December 3, 2014 Thanks - I didn't catch that at first. Yeah - I think OJ totally gets it and I think all of our fears about the show runners are now confirmed. Save yourselves. 2 Link to comment
Kanner December 3, 2014 Share December 3, 2014 I'm disgusted that Wiseman could give an interview about Sleepy Hollow and not mention Abbie once. 4 Link to comment
TV Juriste December 3, 2014 Share December 3, 2014 (edited) I agree that the episode should be panned (and the whole season thus far), but I continue to hope that the response by Goffman (and perhaps others I'm not aware of ) is to buy time to right the ship. If I was the CEO at FOX I might be a little pissed off if the show-runner was honest and said, "Sorry, we completely f*cked up. This Katrina character we thought would be awesome? Yes, she sucks big time! The rest of the episodes we've completed? She's in all those and, yes, (sigh…) she sucks in those as well. I'm trying to hold on to my job here, so if you could just turn your TV on to Sleepy Hollow when it's on that would really help. (ingratiating smile…) Trust me, we recognize our errors but it's too late to change things for this season. Pretend to watch and enjoy the show (even if you don't) and we'll get things back on track next season! Via con Dios! I hear what you're saying . . . but, the better course of action in terms of PR strategy would be to emphasize something other than Katrina in these interviews. Goffman is making people not want to return on January 5th. I definitely felt more optimistic about what they had in store for us in the 2nd half of the season before I read these interviews describing a continuing focus on the Cranes' marriage and Katrina's adjustments to modernity. I certainly hope there is a lot of scrambling going on behind the scenes. Edited December 3, 2014 by TV Juriste 5 Link to comment
BigEasygirl December 3, 2014 Share December 3, 2014 I swear Goffman has used the same exact stock answer for all Abbe questions. He can give you different specifics about upcoming Katrina story but only looks forward to telling more about Abbie. Why can't he tell us specifics about Abbie's story? Because there isn't any. Since the show seems to be scuffling to make changes that's not to say she may not get more focus via re-writes and such, but I really think Abbie was only supposed to have "Mama" while Katrina's varied stories and continued character exploration have been in the works for a long time. That's why Goffman can recite them chapter and verse. No such specifics for Abbie because she has been an after thought on her own show. 7 Link to comment
phoenics December 3, 2014 Share December 3, 2014 I hate it that I can't post meme pics because I have a string of them that would express my rage about Abbie/Nicole sidelined on her own show so much better than words could. <insert RAGING animated gif here!> Does anyone ever in real life imagine themselves as an animated gif? I do that now. Imagine myself as an animated gif. It's like Ally McBeal updated for the tumblr era. 3 Link to comment
Amethyst December 3, 2014 Share December 3, 2014 Huffington Post Review This is what to expect...actually it's a good article I give her credit, Ryan really went in on Goffman, who, as others mentioned, deflected every question that wasn't related to Katrina. He says that he doesn't want her stuff to just be about magic and witches, but her persona as a character. Guess he's forgotten that her persona includes deceit, and she's put innocent people in harms way. His answers are pretty much "Yeah, she did that. But we're so excited about what we're doing for her in the second half of the season!" This quote from the interview is upsetting: Could Katrina ever turn to the dark side? Goffman: When Henry introduced the coin of Judas, he told Ichabod that everyone has both light and darkness inside them. There’s still a shroud of mystery around Katrina’s past, which could impact her journey in Sleepy Hollow in the future. Regarding Katrina and magic, she spent more than 200 years languishing in purgatory without her powers. Gaining her bearings can take a while. Look at how hard it is for people to adjust back to civilian life after spending time in prison, so try practicing magic after being trapped in a level of hell for two centuries. Sounds like he wants to make Katrina a fish-out-of-water in modern day, like Ichabod. Katrina has lost any goodwill with the audience, so no one gives a shit about her adjusting to everyday life. And I don't think Goffman has any intentions of turning her evil. This is not good news. Like RiddleyWalker said, I would love to know how the CEO of FOX feels about this. Goffman is shitting the money bed and just doesn't care. 4 Link to comment
BigEasygirl December 3, 2014 Share December 3, 2014 Another podcast in which the reviewers express their dislike of Katrina. http://www.blogtalkradio.com/varietyradioonline/2014/12/02/sleepy-hollow--the-akeda--tv-review 2 Link to comment
BestestAuntEver December 3, 2014 Share December 3, 2014 (edited) Because there isn't any. Since the show seems to be scuffling to make changes that's not to say she may not get more focus via re-writes and such, but I really think Abbie was only supposed to have "Mama" while Katrina's varied stories and continued character exploration have been in the works for a long time. That's why Goffman can recite them chapter and verse. No such specifics for Abbie because she has been an after thought on her own show. ITA, there isn't any true story focus on Abbie. She will be the trusty SBW sidekick magical negro. IMO, Goffman's interviews solidify this. I remember the common belief was that the second half would focus on Abbie since the first half was all about CFD but Goffman's, Kim's and others words utterly disproved that hope/possibility. Sadly if changes are made, it couldn't be more than shipper bait or an Abbie monolog. Based upon interviews, Goffman was already writing the finale and I believe they already have the 15th or 16th episode in the can. Edited December 3, 2014 by BestestAuntEver 3 Link to comment
DJG1122 December 3, 2014 Share December 3, 2014 http://www.tvequals.com/2014/12/02/sleepy-hollow-season-2-review-akeda/ And another one....... Link to comment
HalcyonDays December 3, 2014 Share December 3, 2014 The Daily Dot has another good one, talking about the second season overall... How Sleepy Hollow is failing its fans. 1 Link to comment
cynic December 3, 2014 Share December 3, 2014 (edited) I love io9's review so hard. "Katrina is beyond saving. As we have all been discussing for way too long, she was ill-used last season from moment one. In the relentless race to the finish last year, it was easy to chalk this up to awkward story requirements: Katrina needed to be in Purgatory to remind us about the threat of Moloch. And even though her breathy exposition never actually helped and her backstory felt like a pinball game, it was an arc that could be repaired in the second season...until she got handed over to Headless like a damsel." http://io9.com/sleepy-hollows-fall-finale-changes-everything-but-sho-1665717788/all Edited December 3, 2014 by cynic 2 Link to comment
ChelseaNH December 3, 2014 Share December 3, 2014 she spent more than 200 years languishing in purgatory without her powers Except she managed to contact Ichabod in practically every Season 1 episode using what, exactly? I do think it would be interesting to explore what 200 years of captivity could do to a person, but they haven't even remotely done that, and I have no faith in their ability to pull it off now if they tried. 1 Link to comment
Iamsweetdee December 3, 2014 Share December 3, 2014 BestestAuntEver, it does seem like it's too late for any significant change. But it has been said that shooting has been extended to late January/early February, so I'm thinking a lot of scenes may have been scrapped and new ones are going to be re-shot and inserted. I know a death scene for Katrina needs to be among the re-writes for this show to have any hope. Where is the talk of rewrites coming from? As I see it, the IIC (idiots in charge) don't see a problem. yes, they have "heard" some folks (you know, those loud Black people and shippers/sarcasm) don't like the show, but I have yet to see anything indicating that they "get it" or are even open to making some changes. Is there something out that that gives folks the impression that the show will change? Link to comment
cynic December 3, 2014 Share December 3, 2014 (edited) 6 Problems 'Sleepy Hollow' Desperately Needs to Fix "...At this point, I'm not even sure Katrina is a solvable problem for the show. Perhaps with Moloch gone the creative team can give us a reason, any reason, to care about Katrina. Hopefully none of these reasons involve fainting while performing magic or being impregnated with a demon baby... http://www.buddytv.com/articles/sleepy-hollow/6-problems-sleepy-hollow-despe-55235.aspx Edited December 3, 2014 by cynic Link to comment
HalcyonDays December 3, 2014 Share December 3, 2014 I've moved some of your posts to the Therapy Thread, since they did not discuss Media articles or news about the show, but instead about what is wrong with the show. We are finding that certain thread topics are spilling over to others threads, thereby losing their purpose overall. Sooooo... I've put together a handy-dandy INDEX of the various threads we have, to make it easier for people to find what topic you wish to post in. There is a short sentence on what should be posted for each thread. It is under the Notes from the Mods section and is linked here. Please try to stay on topic for each thread. You can also link to a post from another thread. How to do it? Simply Right Click on the timestamp under the posts avatar, click Copy Link Location, and paste that into your post in the other thread. Much appreciated. 1 Link to comment
BigEasygirl December 3, 2014 Share December 3, 2014 (edited) Fabulous show from Afterbuzz TV. They totally agree with most of the viewers about this episode and this season so far. At one point, Jacque even clutches her head while trying to fathom what's going on. LOL And they so pissed about Irving being inexplicably killed off, and Orlando seemingly written off the show.eta: because I'm still listening. At one point, Jacque says, "We're watching catty BS we don't want to see." lmfao They sound as frustrated and befuddled as most us on this board.HalcyonDays, Matt finally came out and said what you did a while ago about John Noble being on the show. Edited December 3, 2014 by Reese 1 Link to comment
marceline December 4, 2014 Share December 4, 2014 (edited) Add Tom and Lorenzo to the list of people who seem to be moving from disgusted to disinterested. I love how they just calmly lay it out all over again, like Abbie explaining baseball to Crane. (Sigh...that scene seems like it was a million years ago.) And in a way, we just don’t want to write this review, because not only have we said it all before, but so has practically any other TV critic writing about the show this season. But for the late arrivals, here it is, all over again: Katrina is a deadly dull character. Henry is a deadly dull character. The show has turned an apocalyptic tale spanning millenia into a tiresome and repetitive family drama. All of the more interesting supporting characters have been sidelined. The gothic horror and unique look of the show has all but disappeared and many of the monsters this season (including Moloch) have a generic “Supernatural” look to them. The only element of the show that has been retained from season one is the relationship between Abbie and Crane, but it’s not enough to hang an entire series on. Especially when you force much less interesting characters like Katrina and Hawley on the audience and expect them to work as credible threats to that relationship and that chemistry. All around, season two of Sleepy Hollow has been, we’re sorry to say, an epic flop. Edited December 4, 2014 by marceline 8 Link to comment
HalcyonDays December 4, 2014 Share December 4, 2014 Oh Phil Iscove...I luv ya but... He retweeted an article from Nerdist.com, breaking down the mid season finale, that we should be patient, and that he doesn't see the criticisms that other media and fans have been levelling at the show. Sure dude. ETA: What to expect the back half of the season, courtesy of Mark Goffman. Can anyone find the results of #AbbieMillsDeservesBetter hashtag fallout and subsequent scrambling to appease the fans? I can. Read: episode 17 and 18 contain an "really big Abbie story." Nice of you to slot her in now... 6 Link to comment
DeLurker December 4, 2014 Share December 4, 2014 (edited) Nothing to see here. Go about your lives citizens. Edited December 4, 2014 by DeLurker Link to comment
fantique December 4, 2014 Share December 4, 2014 (edited) When I went back and looked at my notes for that day in the writers' room, I remembered that Abbie and Hawley were supposed to kiss in this episode. So that was a big change from the original conception. Has a potential relationship between Abbie and Hawley being pushed back to the second half of the season? Or was there a decision not to go down that road?You know, a show is an evolving, living, breathing entity, and as you’re watching -– as you’re crafting things in the writers' room and then you see them on screen, sometimes they don’t translate and the storylines don’t work like they do on the page. That [situation] was one that we felt after a while we wanted to take in different direction. I think we found a really fun, different direction to go with Hawley in the back half that I’m really excited about. We have a big storyline for him coming up in Episode 14. And I think it's just a more creative use of his character, a way for him to work with our group that plays with his relationship with Jenny. As it was evolving it seemed like Abbie and Hawley were -- you know, I love watching the two of them together. But Hawley is a loner and we don’t always know which side he’s on. And there’s a really interesting chemistry that we’re going to see with him and [Jenny] in the back half. This at least means they're not completely tone deaf. That explains why the interactions were different from the early part of the season. I like Jenny and him, so that's good. He got a lot more tolerable once he stopped making eyes at Abbie. My guess is, they had shot heartless before seeing the feedback that everyone was saying Hell no to Abbie/Hawley. Although I don't know what they were expecting with having him hook uo with her sister in the past. Edited December 4, 2014 by fantique Link to comment
starchild215 December 4, 2014 Share December 4, 2014 Goffman sounds like the person steering an aircraft carrier trying to turn the carrier on a dime. If you've ever been on an aircraft carrier you know that can't be done. He knows he's messed up and he's treading water like crazy to try and save his job and get the show bck to what made it so great in it's first season. He may want to dismiss the critics but the noise is just too loud now for him, or the people at Fox, to ignore. Is there any chance the original show runners will come back? 1 Link to comment
ChelseaNH December 4, 2014 Share December 4, 2014 they had shot heartless before seeing the feedback that everyone was saying Hell no to Abbie/Hawley Given the lead time for a television series, they might well have shot The Akeda before seeing the feedback that everyone was saying Hell no to Abbie/Hawley. Link to comment
cynic December 4, 2014 Share December 4, 2014 (edited) Orlando discusses Irving's death. I thought it was funny how he said Irving probably felt bitter and abandoned since the other characters barely visited him in Tarrytown. Meta! http://www.tvguide.com/news/sleepy-hollow-postmortem-orlando-jones-irving-dead-1090073.aspx Oh Phil Iscove...I luv ya but... He retweeted an article from Nerdist.com, breaking down the mid season finale, that we should be patient, and that he doesn't see the criticisms that other media and fans have been levelling at the show. Sure dude. ETA: What to expect the back half of the season, courtesy of Mark Goffman. Can anyone find the results of #AbbieMillsDeservesBetter hashtag fallout and subsequent scrambling to appease the fans? I can. Read: episode 17 and 18 contain an "really big Abbie story." Nice of you to slot her in now... I thought that Nerdist article was a tad condescending in tone and I didn't agree with most of its points. The Star Wars analogy was just dumb. Lando and Yoda were actually interesting, well-realized characters and they never dominated the storyline at the expense of the main stars. Also, Nerdist writer, I knew Dawn and Katrina is just as annoying.Goffman does sound like he's scrambling, but since most of the season's in the can already, he can't do much except throw Abbie a bone at the very end. At the very least, all the dissatisfaction surrounding the show lately has made Twitter very entertaining. Edited December 4, 2014 by cynic 2 Link to comment
Miss Dee December 4, 2014 Share December 4, 2014 Oh Phil Iscove...I luv ya but... He retweeted an article from Nerdist.com, breaking down the mid season finale, that we should be patient, and that he doesn't see the criticisms that other media and fans have been levelling at the show. Sure dude. ETA: What to expect the back half of the season, courtesy of Mark Goffman. Can anyone find the results of #AbbieMillsDeservesBetter hashtag fallout and subsequent scrambling to appease the fans? I can. Read: episode 17 and 18 contain an "really big Abbie story." Nice of you to slot her in now... At least there was no mention of Katrina. In fact, when asked a question about Ichabod and Katrina, he turned it around to talk about Ichabod and Abbie. Nice change from the status quo, for me. I enjoyed this interview. Link to comment
blixie December 4, 2014 Share December 4, 2014 Given the lead time for a television series, they might well have shot The Akeda before seeing the feedback that everyone was saying Hell no to Abbie/Hawley. I thought he was basically admitting they only cut the kiss in post, and have actively rewritten from there. Saying stories don't work like they do in the page means he saw the footage before they decided it wasn't working. It twasn't atall because by that point you'd heard the pushback that typically results from a guy trying to bang two sisters. Link to comment
BestestAuntEver December 4, 2014 Share December 4, 2014 ETA: What to expect the back half of the season, courtesy of Mark Goffman. Can anyone find the results of #AbbieMillsDeservesBetter hashtag fallout and subsequent scrambling to appease the fans? I can. Read: episode 17 and 18 contain an "really big Abbie story." Nice of you to slot her in now... Yeah, after tons of interviews with even answer being Katrina, Katrina, Katrina, this does seems like back peddling. Lol, my first thought was a higher up or PR person got ahold of him and gave him a mandate. It's to little to late. I don't trust Goffman, the writers or the showrunners. They were still pimping the Katrina show last week. Now for me, he doth protest to much and comes of as a lying liar who lies. If you guys a episode 17 and 18 are worth watching then I'll watch not because Goffman is now professing Abbie will get thrown a bone of a story at the end of the season. If he valued me as a viewer he would have done so from the beginning, not a last ditch effort to save his job or to stop the ratings slide. This should have been first, but the main problem to me in the interview is that it appears they are still unclear about their mythology or code book will be. This is not Grimm, which can pull from various religions and folklore/fairytales from around the world 5 Link to comment
DeLurker December 4, 2014 Share December 4, 2014 Saying stories don't work like they do in the page means he saw the footage before they decided it wasn't working. Could he please look at a scene with Katrina in it? Any scene? Because none of them have worked. 2 Link to comment
slayer2 December 4, 2014 Share December 4, 2014 (edited) Just like Scott Foley on Scandal, Katrina is the "poochie" of the SH universe.Sooooooo disagree about as much as a human can. Fitz is the Katrina of Scandal by a mile. Useless, vile and entirely run by one thing with no regard for his greater role in protecting millions of people.All the articled I've read seem to concur that Katrina is a disaster. The show is so getting cancelled. Poor Beharie deserved so much more. Edited December 4, 2014 by slayer2 4 Link to comment
DkNNy79 December 4, 2014 Share December 4, 2014 I hope the Abbie/Hawley kiss is available as a deleted scene. If they hadn't given him a past with Jenny, I would've been up for Abbie and Hawley. 4 Link to comment
phoenics December 5, 2014 Share December 5, 2014 Goffman sounds like the person steering an aircraft carrier trying to turn the carrier on a dime. If you've ever been on an aircraft carrier you know that can't be done. He knows he's messed up and he's treading water like crazy to try and save his job and get the show bck to what made it so great in it's first season. He may want to dismiss the critics but the noise is just too loud now for him, or the people at Fox, to ignore. Is there any chance the original show runners will come back? I dunno. I think he's more like the captain steering an aircraft carrier who is determined to stay on the path he's on and he's now being held at gunpoint to FINALLY turn the carrier around. He doesn't want to do it though - which means the moment the show is in the clear, he's going to do Exactly what he wants to do again. So even if we get the show to be back to its S1 glory, Goffman will steer it right back to the cliff he's determined to sail over, reaching for his brass Katia. 4 Link to comment
savinggrace December 5, 2014 Share December 5, 2014 I'm worried all the Katrina criticism is just going to make them double-down even harder on trying to make the audience like her-- kinda like they did this season. They are thrilled by the challenge. It's like they spend more time in the writer's room trying to figure out how to redeem her character than they do on creating coherent mythology. 3 Link to comment
phoenics December 5, 2014 Share December 5, 2014 I'm worried all the Katrina criticism is just going to make them double-down even harder on trying to make the audience like her-- kinda like they did this season. They are thrilled by the challenge. It's like they spend more time in the writer's room trying to figure out how to redeem her character than they do on creating coherent mythology. Based on his earlier interviews - I think I believe you. I think that his original plan was even worse than this. I think originally, they planned on having Katrina win everyone's hearts while Abbie was stuck in Purgatory - so that he could kill her off. Actually if you read that interview when he talks about Abbie - I actually think he might still plan to do that to Abbie - Cordelia style. I just do not trust Mark Goffman. I hope that twitter tag #GoffmanRuinedSleepyHollow pops WAY off - catching the attention of FOX. It's past time they stepped in. They need to EAT CROW - hire back the guy who was all about diversity (at the network), and then they need to BEG Kurtzman and Orci to come back and save Sleepy Hollow and then they need to have them hand over the reins to writers THEY TRUST to keep the vision and to continue the world-building. Goffman has failed - time for him to go. And he can take Katia Winter with him and cast her on another show to make her a star there - but give me my Sleepy Hollow show from S1 back. 6 Link to comment
Indi December 5, 2014 Share December 5, 2014 I'm worried all the Katrina criticism is just going to make them double-down even harder on trying to make the audience like her-- kinda like they did this season. They are thrilled by the challenge. It's like they spend more time in the writer's room trying to figure out how to redeem her character than they do on creating coherent mythology. Yes, they are going to double down on StruggleWitch and they're probably thrilled about that, but she's beyond redemption, just like Henry, no matter what they think. What counts is that the audience is not thrilled about a character and the longer they refuse to see that, the harder the show will tank. Link to comment
MissAlmond December 5, 2014 Share December 5, 2014 Sleepy Hollow won’t be cancelled. Every media outlet agrees FOX’s programming is in such bad shape, that for them SH’s numbers are great. Ratings would have to drop to the level of only cast and crew families watching for FOX to pull the plug. Even then, FOX still has nothing to replace SH with, so Season 3 will be. Sadly, this situation means there’s really no incentive for change. Reilly isn’t coming back. O/K have too many other projects to work on. A Season 3 gives FOX time to work on a replacement in case SH continues to nosedive. That leaves Goffman in the cat bird seat to do whatever he wants to next season. If SH is cancelled after Season 3, he's already told his story. Also, let’s not forget, there is a very happy group of viewers who are thrilled Season 2 proved how epic the Crane love story is. They are happy to let you know any criticism is due to “shipper” unhappiness. These are Goffman’s true fans; he loves them and he's happy writing for them because they're all on the same page. So unless someone higher up steps in and intervenes, don’t expect to see any changes next year. 5 Link to comment
phoenics December 5, 2014 Share December 5, 2014 I sympathize, Phoenics, I really do. :( I suppose I'm trying to be optimistic here and hoping that Goffman et al. have seen the errors of their ways. I truly hope he's replaced and an announcement is made quite soon about that but that may be too much to ask. In the absence of his replacement I hold on to the hope that Goffman (perhaps like Henry?) can change his spots and be receptive to the majority of fans who are fed up with the CFD, fed up with Katrina and recognize the strengths of the show in season 1 and build on that…i.e. the Abbie/Ichabod relationship, badass villains and fun history and humor. I really - really hope you're right and thanks! Maybe this latest interview means they finally "get it" but I feel like when you have to drag someone like Goffman kicking and screaming to "do the right thing" it doesn't last. I fear he'll just do what it takes to right the ship and keep his job but the minute he thinks he's in the clear he'll go right back to pushing Katia to the forefront and writing jacked up nonsense that strays from the premise of the show. I can't believe how far this show has fallen. Sleepy Hollow won’t be cancelled. Every media outlet agrees FOX’s programming is in such bad shape, that for them SH’s numbers are great. Ratings would have to drop to the level of only cast and crew families watching for FOX to pull the plug. Even then, FOX still has nothing to replace SH with, so Season 3 will be. Sadly, this situation means there’s really no incentive for change. Reilly isn’t coming back. O/K have too many other projects to work on. A Season 3 gives FOX time to work on a replacement in case SH continues to nosedive. That leaves Goffman in the cat bird seat to do whatever he wants to next season. If SH is cancelled after Season 3, he's already told his story. Also, let’s not forget, there is a very happy group of viewers who are thrilled Season 2 proved how epic the Crane love story is. They are happy to let you know any criticism is due to “shipper” unhappiness. These are Goffman’s true fans; he loves them and he's happy writing for them because they're all on the same page. So unless someone higher up steps in and intervenes, don’t expect to see any changes next year. If ratings dive below 1.0 for the Jan 5 episode I think Goffman will be fired. 2 Link to comment
RiddleyWalker December 5, 2014 Share December 5, 2014 (edited) I really - really hope you're right and thanks! Maybe this latest interview means they finally "get it" but I feel like when you have to drag someone like Goffman kicking and screaming to "do the right thing" it doesn't last. I fear he'll just do what it takes to right the ship and keep his job but the minute he thinks he's in the clear he'll go right back to pushing Katia to the forefront and writing jacked up nonsense that strays from the premise of the show. I can't believe how far this show has fallen. If ratings dive below 1.0 for the Jan 5 episode I think Goffman will be fired. My gut feeling is that the second half of the season is Goffman's only chance to save his job. If ratings continue to slip and are in the 1.2 range or so at the end of the season, someone else will be the showrunner for Season 3. (And I do expect to see a Season 3 one way or another) Also, network executives will put up with marginal ratings if a show is critically acclaimed due to the prestige that brings (especially FOX) but if the show is simply the butt of critics' jokes, there's no way they'll continue on the same course. Edited December 5, 2014 by RiddleyWalker 4 Link to comment
Miss Dee December 5, 2014 Share December 5, 2014 I agree. Networks will sometimes put up with low ratings for a critically acclaimed show, and they'll almost always put up with a critical drubbing for a highly rated show, but they won't put up with both unless they have no choice. So if you really want to stick it to Sleepy Hollow right now (or at try to effect some change), about your only option is to organize an effort for Neilsen families to watch the shit out of everything else on the network in order to make Sleepy Hollow one of Fox's worst shows. At that point Fox will either takes steps to right the ship or they'll sink it. 6 Link to comment
Bad Bitch In Red December 5, 2014 Share December 5, 2014 (edited) I've done my part. Sleepy Hollow is all ready off my dvr list :o(, and I won't be back on January 5. I'll still read this board since y'all are great! ETA: Edited December 6, 2014 by stacey 2 Link to comment
savinggrace December 5, 2014 Share December 5, 2014 (edited) I don't want the show to sink guys. My love of Tom and Nicole together overrides my hatred of Goffman. I just want him gone so there's a chance the show can get better. Does anyone know when the ladies on Project Fandom will post their Sleepy Hollow "Akeda" podcast? I love their discussions, especially the ragging on Katrina. Edited December 5, 2014 by savinggrace 1 Link to comment
starchild215 December 5, 2014 Share December 5, 2014 Deadline is reporting that Roberto Orci is no longer on the "Star Trek 3" project as Director. He is staying on as a producer. Link to comment
catrox14 December 6, 2014 Share December 6, 2014 Deadline is reporting that Roberto Orci is no longer on the "Star Trek 3" project as Director. He is staying on as a producer. Ha I was just getting ready to post this and say I hope it means he might come back to Sleepy Hollow. 2 Link to comment
methodwriter85 December 6, 2014 Share December 6, 2014 You know I totally get why Katia Winter was kind of smug in her pre-season interviews. She knows she has the showrunner eyes and ears. Taken to the Katrina thread... Link to comment
BigEasygirl December 6, 2014 Share December 6, 2014 (edited) I don't want the show to sink guys. My love of Tom and Nicole together overrides my hatred of Goffman. I just want him gone so there's a chance the show can get better. Does anyone know when the ladies on Project Fandom will post their Sleepy Hollow "Akeda" podcast? I love their discussions, especially the ragging on Katrina. I keep checking their site, but their SH review of The Akeda isn't up yet (as you mentioned). Not sure when it will be. I'm a fan of their discussions too, and even when I don't necessarily agree with a point of view, they make me laugh and generally entertain me. The Katrina shade is hilarious. I can't wait to hear what they have to say about her in this episode. Edited December 6, 2014 by Reese Link to comment
fantique December 6, 2014 Share December 6, 2014 (edited) This should have been first, but the main problem to me in the interview is that it appears they are still unclear about their mythology or code book will be. This is not Grimm, which can pull from various religions and folklore/fairytales from around the world I agree, their interviews seem to reflect that they are not really sure what world they're building and there are instances where the actors brought interesting facts to the writers' notice that the actors researched about Revolutionary times. I know the actors mentioned in their SAG conversation that they do independent research for each supernatural element they encounter. That should not be the case, the research should have been done and been explained in the script. Edited December 6, 2014 by fantique 1 Link to comment
savinggrace December 6, 2014 Share December 6, 2014 (edited) I keep checking their site, but their SH review of The Akeda isn't up yet (as you mentioned). Not sure when it will be. I'm a fan of their discussions too, and even when I don't necessarily agree with a point of view, they make me laugh and generally entertain me. The Katrina shade is hilarious. I can't wait to hear what they have to say about her in this episode. Yay! It's up now Project Fandom Sleepy Hollow "Akeda" podcast Edited December 6, 2014 by savinggrace 2 Link to comment
starchild215 December 7, 2014 Share December 7, 2014 (edited) I think this photo says all there is to say about Season 2. http://www.spoilersguide.com/sleepy-hollow/cast-previews-season-2/ I found the picture on spoilers guide. There is another picture on Tumblr where the cast is sitting on a table. Goffman is leaning into Katia. Again a picture is worth a thousand words. Found it. https://31.media.tumblr.com/7779d90f34edf029d0b9de85214f93e3/tumblr_n9cipqspJl1stpcodo1_1280.jpg Are pictures with proper accreditation allowed here? Edited December 7, 2014 by starchild215 1 Link to comment
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