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Sleepy Hollow in the Media

maraleia

By maraleia
in Sleepy Hollow [V]

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jenrising
jenrising
cynic
cynic

Oh, I have no doubt that Beharie wanted to leave. My issue is the laying of blame at Beharie for wanting to leave without considering why she wanted to leave. It was pretty clear two and a half years

Badsamaritan
Badsamaritan

I don't believe a word from FOX. Look how they treated Orlando Jones, by far their biggest cheerleader. And the fact that he has still been supporting Nicole tells me he knows what the fuck really hap

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HalcyonDays

HalcyonDays

Ha! And because Orlando has no shame, is awesome but totally gets what's happening, he posted this little ditty on his tumblr, complete with accompanying album cover.

 

(to the tune of Tom Jones' It's not Unusual, of course)

 

It’s not unusual to love/hate your favorite show
It’s not unusual to say “tropes, you gotta go”
But when you see weekly ratings at an all time low
It’s not unusual to wanna cry
And throw legit side-eye

 

ETA: Salon article. Why Genre shows go off the rails. Talks about SH and Reign.

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allyw

allyw

(edited)

Ha! And because Orlando has no shame, is awesome but totally gets what's happening, he posted this little ditty on his tumblr, complete with accompanying album cover.

(to the tune of Tom Jones' It's not Unusual, of course)

It’s not unusual to love/hate your favorite show

It’s not unusual to say “tropes, you gotta go”

But when you see weekly ratings at an all time low

It’s not unusual to wanna cry

And throw legit side-eye

ETA: Salon article. Why Genre shows go off the rails. Talks about SH and Reign.

OMG Orlando is so freaking funny. I love that he and Nicole are letting fans know that they stand with them with class unlike some of those writers.

ETA: I hope the writers/producers are seeing all these articles reiterating what fans are saying and make a course correction instead of doubling down to satisfy their pride. I also hope that the season finale idea happens.

Edited by allyw
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blixie

blixie

One thing I'm finding interesting about all these articles is how Twitter knits it all together. It's not just the lines between Fans and Showrunners that have blurred, but between Fans and Journalists, and Twitter throws them all in to the same feedback/discussion pot. The is whole coffee klatch of internet tv and pop culture writers discussing shows in real time on Twitter I feel like they decided together to give SH a Come to Jesus meeting.

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HalcyonDays

HalcyonDays

They never fail to make me laugh.  Especially their shading of Katrina.  lol

 

Because it's so easy to shade Katrina!!

 

Nicole Beharie is apparently going to appear next week on the Nerdist SleepyCast podcast, after the episode 2.09 "Mama".

 

Clarke Wolfe @clarkewolfe  ·  Nov 13

Either @TomMison or @NikkiBeharie will be on the #SleepyCast Tuesday... I'll give you a hint: It's not Tom Mison. Are you subscribed yet?!?

 

Beharie has been popping up ALOT more in since the mess of Deliverance - Jeez...I wonder why..Could it be...damage control?? *grin*

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phoenics

phoenics

Of course it's damage control.

And apparently the writers (see the podcast above) are reaching out to critics for "advice" on how to fix the show...

Now they are listening... I guess... the question is will they honestly get it.

Before Deliverance - the outcry was muted. There were rumblings and people were wondering what was up, but trying to give the show time to get itself together. After Deliverance - POW! Fans and critics alike literally turned on the show in a matter of days. DAYS!

It should be extremely obvious to the writers what - or WHO - the problem is - because after those episodes featuring said character heavily - that's when the fit hit the shan. I don't think they have a choice but to kill her off - it's going to take a drastic move to get fans who have turned away from the show to come back.

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Indi

Indi

Here is a recent interview Nicole Beharie did for the upcoming episode 'Mama.'  As ever, she is a class act.

 

http://www.buddytv.com/articles/sleepy-hollow/sleepy-hollow-interview-nicole-55105.aspx

 

Very much so, but even though they're sending her out to do damage control, she can't do much, when the show has very little to offer. This interview confirms my fears that "Mama" is the bone from the writers to the Mills sisters, before the refocus their attention on the Cranes again.

 

And apparently the writers (see the podcast above) are reaching out to critics for "advice" on how to fix the show...

 

Here is the thing though. This show is supposedly run by professionals, but somehow things like the horrible anti-chemistry between Mison and Winter (and her acting in general) or the opening scene of "Heartless" pass their quality control. How? Not only that, but they love it, double down on it and decide it's okay to sideline the leading lady in importance and emotionally, as long as they drop some crumbs here and there. How am I supposed to believe this show is in the right hands? The very existence of the Katrina character tells me there is no rhyme or reason to anything they're doing. That's why everything Crane related is so bland, whishy-washy, stupid and utterly boring. But then, what else could it be, when their muse is Katrina/Katia?

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BigEasygirl

BigEasygirl

Yeah, it's not rocket science.  Until they kill of Katrina and Henry, get the focus back on the Apocalypse and the Witnesses, get Headless back out on the street trying to kill people as the Horseman of Death should be doing, stop sidelining Jenny to push Hawley, and get Irving back on the force with his soul intact, the show isn't going to improve imo.

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Yolapukka

Yolapukka

(edited)

 

 

It's all very simple.

Get rid of Katrina.

Get rid of Henry

Get rid of Hawley

Bring back Jenny and Irving

Focus on the Apocalypse.

The end.

See how simple it is?

 

 I like that with alterations;

 

GET RID OF KATRINA!!!!

Reveal that Jeremy was not Ichabod's son and perhaps not Katrina's either, use Henry sparingly.

Bring back Jenny, relegate Hawley to occasional sidekick status. 

Bring back Irving, tell the story you've set up for him.

Give Reyes a purpose other than being notIrving or get rid of her.

Get rid of the head of Headless and also his lonely little head.

 ditto to the rest

 

As awful as I think Katrina is, she can be marginalized or disappear with little damage to the narrative. The bigger misstep involved giving ichabod a lost son and having him be an over-the-top moustache-twirling, scenery-chewing time-suck, that family tie needs to be severed. I really think the time is overdue for a revisionist reveal about her spat with the coven and the birth of Jeremy.

 

I'm glad to read that it's not only fans, but critics also who are noting the declne of the show. I enjoyed the links.

Edited by yuggapukka
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Indi

Indi

Apparently it's very difficult for the writers...Very difficult.

 

Episode 2.11 - The Akeda Extended Synopsis

 

*sigh* So do they simply copy and paste this line for every episode synopsis?

...and to rescue Katrina from the Headless Horseman’s grasp

 

The rest actually sounds somewhat interesting...It all depends on how they do it. This episode is the mid-season finale, I believe.

 

Clearly they lost their minds and the plot.

Did they forget Katrina never loved Abraham and that's why she dumped him? How can her feelings for him resurface? How many times is StruggleWitch going to be rescued this season?

This is ridiculous!

 

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BestestAuntEver

BestestAuntEver

Reading everything makes me wonder if the new writers even watched the first season. It's like they took all the good that brought the show ratings & trashed it for Katrina & tired ass tropes.

Now, they want to trash said viewers & call them haters yet are surprised by the ratings drop. Pure arrogance & idiocy.

It's obvious they don't know their audience. We've seen these lies, tricks and ploys before. that's why IMO so many aren't buying them.

After reading the above spoilers & synopsis, I wouldn't be surprised if the ratings dropped even further after Mama.

They've been talking about how there will be focus on the Mill's this season but I only see 1 episode that appears to fit that bill. One out of nine iso a bone, not a storyline or focus. 1-2 episodes a season for Abbie & the Mill's sisters is not enough.

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HalcyonDays

HalcyonDays

Reading everything makes me wonder if the new writers even watched the first season. It's like they took all the good that brought the show ratings & trashed it for Katrina & tired ass tropes.

Now, they want to trash said viewers & call them haters yet are surprised by the ratings drop. Pure arrogance & idiocy.

It's obvious they don't know their audience. We've seen these lies, tricks and ploys before. that's why IMO so many aren't buying them.

After reading the above spoilers & synopsis, I wouldn't be surprised if the ratings dropped even further after Mama.

They've been talking about how there will be focus on the Mill's this season but I only see 1 episode that appears to fit that bill. One out of nine iso a bone, not a storyline or focus. 1-2 episodes a season for Abbie & the Mill's sisters is not enough.

 

And what I do not understand is how none of them seemed to read any of the reviews and articles concerning the show. All they had to do was hire an intern to gather the articles and summarize them. Most of the summaries would include these four pieces of information:

 

  1. - Abbie/Beharie and Ichabod/Mison have undeniable chemistry and without them, the show would fail.
  2. - We want to see more Jenny Mills and Frank Irving.
  3. - Katrina is shady.
  4. - She has no chemistry with her husband and slows down the show. She is not needed.

 

That is what everything I read last year said. So why did they think boosting up the only character that brought down point #1. It's the exact opposite of what you want to do. IF she were shady, that would be another matter and would be interesting, but she is not. Instead, she has been reduced to a fainting damsel in distress who couldn't do magic for the life of her, is delusional and apparently is only good for spawning evil beings.

 

They had such potential, such potential yet wasted it just to promote this version of Katrina and Henry for that matter.

 

And I do remember them saying that the second season would give us more background on Abbie's family, etc. I guess (so far) that means only one episode. *sad*

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KBrownie

KBrownie

Another really good article about the season two mistakes and the #abbiemillsdeservesbetter campaign on twitter.

 

  http://www.tvjuriste.com/sleepy-hollow-fans-tell-writers-to-wake-up/

Good read.

 

Does anyone know what the deleted tweet was from Katia Winter that the article referenced?  I didn't know she had said anything on Twitter that had ruffled any feathers . . . Was it as tone deaf as the writers?

 

Thanks in advance!

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DearEvette

DearEvette

The focus on family -- even if it is Abbie and Jenny- will kill the show. People thought they were in for an epic supernatural adventure not Dr Phil-type family issues. Get on with the Apocalypse already!

 

I completely agree with this.... to a point.  I don't want the show to focus on family, but I do think it needs to give understanding why Abbie and why Ichabod.  Abbie & Jenny & the trees, their relationship, and why Abbie was chosen (and why not Jenny) are important things to delve into because they are questions the audience wants answered.  Same thing with Ichabod.  Why him?  The thing that season one got right that season two is getting wrong, is that it was giving us clues about these two people, studded throughout the episodes while they themselves were learning.  And you always got the  sense that what they (and you) were discovering about themselves and their past had a direct impact on their fight and would illuminate how they could succeed in the fight.

 

Meanwhile S2 hasn't really centered on the Witnesses and their importance or destiny as much it seems.  Instead it feels too concerned with Katrina & Jeremy and how they are reacting to/affecting  things and what they are doing.  Notice we haven't had any flashbacks that had any significance of Ichabod as Witness since Ep2.  And only the one conversation with the Sheriff about Abbie's mother, again in ep 2.  

 

Also, I think Abbie is a little different than Ichabod when it comes to the family thing.  Her entire family seems to have been victims.  Grace and her husband were killed by Jeremy (a baby, but still ...).  Her mother was haunted and hounded into suicide.  She and Jenny were traumatized.  Her father figure was killed by the Horseman.  Abbie has lost and sacrificed a lot to this cause, unknowingly.  Meanwhile Ichabod has his wife and son here in the 21st century with him.  In reality he's lost or sacrificed very little to all of this.  And if they do manage to redeem Henry, Ichabod will come out of this way ahead of the game with an intact family.  So the over concentration on his family doesn't feel as immediate or necessary to the understanding of the story, instead  It feels like what it is, dreary domestic drama.  But Abbie's family still has a lot of mystery ties to it and it just feels like it has more to offer the supernatural adventure roots of the show.

 

But yeah, i don't want this to become even more family drama.  Just show us what is necessary to understand why Ab & Ich are the Witnesses and keep the action going.

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phoenics

phoenics

Good read.

 

Does anyone know what the deleted tweet was from Katia Winter that the article referenced?  I didn't know she had said anything on Twitter that had ruffled any feathers . . . Was it as tone deaf as the writers?

 

Thanks in advance!

I love it that she tried to delete it - not knowing that fans would screencap that stuff and that it would live FOREVER. She probably needs to stay away from online media - because I suspect fans will drag her the next time she ventures out. At least Orlando Jones apologized (twice) for that offensive tweet he made - Ms. Katia is apparently above that.

This article has a screencap of it - I remember reading it and going from disliking Katrina to out and out rage at the actress who portrays her and wanting the character DEAD. Any sympathy I had for her was GONE - it was an incredibly classless thing to do and I'm happy to see Karma biting her in the behind over it (her episodes dragging the ratings into the toilet). Literally - it's taking everything within me not to throw her into the same black hole I tossed Katherine Heigl (I refuse to watch ANYTHING she's in).

http://www.tvjuriste.com/with-sleepy-hollow-ratings-slipping-why-would-an-insider-taunt-avid-fans/

As for the latest spoiler-episode description - I think all of the episodes are in the can. The problem is that they put all of their eggs in the Katrina/Katia and Mison/Ichabod basket (and all of their ensuing family drama with Henry, Abraham) and they are paying the price for it.

At this point, if they get rid of Katrina - I hope they keep Hawley - as long as Irving/Jenny are brought back in huge amounts. I actually think Matt adds something to the show and if ANY character deserves to be the first to get axed, it should be Katrina, then Abraham (bring back Headless) and then separate Jeremy from Henry and then kill off Jeremy, leaving only the Horseman of Death behind. I liked Abraham, but the only purpose he serves is to give Katrina more storyline, so no - he must be sacrificed so she can forever get off this show...

Seeing that she deleted that tweet actually added more rage since she didn't see the need to apologize.

Knowing that the writers/showrunners risked this AMAZING show betting EVERYTHING on Katrina/Katia makes me so angry - I'm just done.

I don't think they can fix the show in time to save it. They've already filmed everything.

And even the critic I referenced in my last post didn't seem to get it that the issue was the Crane Family Drama and actually seemed more ready to dump Hawley than Katrina. But it's Katrina (and all of the plots connected to her) that need to go.

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fantique

fantique

(edited)

Oh yeah, I remember that tweet. I remember people saying they didn't want to read that kind of thing from her. I wasn't particularly pissed or offended, I just cringed because I knew that was a faux pas. She likes to joke and do/say silly things but yeah... sometimes that crosses the line. Every joke is not appropriate everywhere. It was also stupid of her to use #ichabbie. She shouldn't have done that because that drew their attention. That was dumb.

 

What offensive tweet did Orlando post? I didn't hear about that.

Edited by fantique
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RiddleyWalker

RiddleyWalker

Another really good article about the season two mistakes and the #abbiemillsdeservesbetter campaign on twitter.

 

  http://www.tvjuriste.com/sleepy-hollow-fans-tell-writers-to-wake-up/

I really like TV Juriste and she and I see "eye to eye" on what ought to be done to "fix" SH. If anyone knows more details on the origins of the #abbiemillsdeservesbetter campaign she'd love to have them. Also, I think her recaps are woefully neglected so post a comment or two if you feel like it. 

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phoenics

phoenics

(edited)

Oh yeah, I remember that tweet. I remember people saying they didn't want to read that kind of thing from her. I wasn't particularly pissed or offended, I just cringed because I knew that was a faux pas. She likes to joke and do/say silly things but yeah... sometimes that crosses the line. Every joke is not appropriate everywhere. It was also stupid of her to use #ichabbie. She shouldn't have done that because that drew their attention. That was dumb.

 

What offensive tweet did Orlando post? I didn't hear about that.

I've heard the argument that she was trying to make a joke, but I don't buy it. Her tone in some of her interviews makes me think she is salty at Ichabbie fans - as though they owe her anything.

As an Ichabbie fan (I don't know if I ship them anymore given how Crane is a jerk), I didn't find it funny. It's like a racist making a "joke" about a minority - nope - not funny. There has to be some level of comraderie between entities to make any "joking" between them work - Katia clearly doesn't have that comraderie with the fans - not Ichabbie fans. Thus it was in really poor taste to me.

Orlando made a really sexist comment in one of his live tweets for the show... I think he used the word p***y? It was really bad. He made one apology and then had a longer more extensive one that he linked to on his twitter. I think it may have been referenced earlier in this thread?

ETA: I've been trying to search Orlando's tweets for it, but man he tweets a lot! LOL. I'm still looking!

Edited by phoenics
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fantique

fantique

(edited)

I've heard the argument that she was trying to make a joke, but I don't buy it. Her tone in some of her interviews makes me think she is salty at Ichabbie fans - as though they owe her anything.

As an Ichabbie fan (I don't know if I ship them anymore given how Crane is a jerk), I didn't find it funny. It's like a racist making a "joke" about a minority - nope - not funny. There has to be some level of comraderie between entities to make any "joking" between them work - Katia clearly doesn't have that comraderie with the fans - not Ichabbie fans. Thus it was in really poor taste to me.

Orlando made a really sexist comment in one of his live tweets for the show... I think he used the word p***y? It was really bad. He made one apology and then had a longer more extensive one that he linked to on his twitter. I think it may have been referenced earlier in this thread?

ETA: I've been trying to search Orlando's tweets for it, but man he tweets a lot! LOL. I'm still looking!

Re: KW, yeah that was exactly my stance, that's why I cringed. I wasn't saying it was ok, I was saying I just rolled my eyes and ignored her while thinking she was stupid to do it. The "teaser" coming from her was inappropriate because there is obviously no love lost between her and Ichabbie fans. Using the # to draw their attention upped it from a stupid act to a taunt and that was bad. I liken it to the gaucheness of the writers retweeting one of the "haters" rebuttal tweets because the disapproval is justified and a direct consequence of their own work. A hater is someone who has little to no justification to be displeased at the object of the "hate" (ex: some moron told me they thought Jennifer Lawrence is a bad actress because they don't like the sound of their voice... sigh. To say she just doesn't do it for them would have been enough but they just had to BS) and justification in this case, there is. I liked that in that TV Juriste article she pointed out to TPTB that ignoring and dismissing such a loud voice of the audience that is close to quitting is stupid and not a great colour on them.

 

I also liked that she also pointed out one thing that always bug me. Which is that because of a few jerks verbally attacking the writers instead of civilly expressing their grievances it automatically puts them on the defensive. How is calling those people racist and sexist going to accomplish anything but piss them off and make them unable to be objective about the criticism. I read a lot of the #abbiemillsdeservesbetter tweets and so many people were elegant and graceful in their discontent and it's too bad the writers were not exposed to only that. 

 

Re: OJ, well... I guess he can't always be 100%, it's good that he apologised though. We all say and do dumb things in the spur of the moment. The fact that he recognised that was a bad call is good. I really liked that he addressed it as well, instead of deleting and sticking his head in the sand. Ugh I found an article that covered it... It was a rape joke. Ugh, that is So.Much.Worse than the use of the p-word to me. Wow, I'm glad I didn't see that then because it made me uncomfortable. The apology was good though. If it was already covered on the thread I am not going to link anything because

Edited by fantique
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phoenics

phoenics

(edited)

Yes - I really respect Orlando for apologizing. He also started following some anti-misogynistic tweets and I think a fan tweeted an article or book about misogyny/sexism or something to that effect and he actually took it to heart and retweeted back that he was reading up on it.

I think Katia probably was advised to take it down - or she deleted it herself after seeing the backlash AND after seeing the ratings plummet after HER episode, Deliverance. I think she probably looked at Ichabbie fans as "haters" and probably drank the Kool-Aid that Katrina/Ichatrina was a ratings bonanza. Joke's on her, I guess.

Edited by phoenics
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TV Juriste

TV Juriste

(edited)

One thing I'm finding interesting about all these articles is how Twitter knits it all together. It's not just the lines between Fans and Showrunners that have blurred, but between Fans and Journalists, and Twitter throws them all in to the same feedback/discussion pot. The is whole coffee klatch of internet tv and pop culture writers discussing shows in real time on Twitter I feel like they decided together to give SH a Come to Jesus meeting.

YES! A media professor somewhere needs to teach a course (or at least devote a lecture or two) to the debate regarding Sleepy Hollow Season 2 / the #AbbieMillsDeservesBette campaign / Orlando Jones' adept use of his Tumblr and Twitter accounts to show how previous boundaries between show insiders and fans have evaporated. 

Edited by TV Juriste
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HalcyonDays

HalcyonDays

YES! A media professor somewhere needs to teach a course (or at least devote a lecture or two) to the debate regarding Sleepy Hollow Season 2 / the #AbbieMillsDeservesBette campaign / Orlando Jones' adept use of of his Tumblr and Twitter accounts to show how previous boundaries between show insiders and fans have evaporated. 

 

Or how internet media influences televison today...Way back when, the only media to supplement one's television show were magazines, Johnny Carson/Letterman et all late night talk shows and maybe the radio. Now we've got twitter hashtags, twitter and tumblr campaigns, gifs of everything rewriting intentions, and the writers and show creators accessible via a mere tweet. It's such a different landscape now. The show is more open to criticism, praise and the fandom in general.

 

In this thread, I was already commenting earlier on how this whole kerfuffle over season 2 SH could be a seminar on how internet media can impact television -  because it really can. The voices are loud and clear - are the SH writing masses willing to listen?

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BestestAuntEver

BestestAuntEver

(edited)

Wow, the more I read the more I realize I've been lied to once again as a viewer. If most of the shows have been produced then TBTB should be able to hint at more than the "Mama" episode as Abbie focused. It's obvious they can't because it's all Katrina & Henry with sidekick/servant Abbie.

These asshat honestly thought a single episode was more than enough to pacify the audience.

If all this CFD had been part of the shows premise from the beginning , I doubt I would have watched. It's just not my cup of tea. I'm always surprised that a loss of viewers doesn't clue writers or producers in.

I wouldn't believe anything out of the current teams mouth regarding the storylines or significance of the POC on this show.

I won't ever watch anything by these showrunners again.

Edited by BestestAuntEver
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DearEvette

DearEvette

One thing I'm finding interesting about all these articles is how Twitter knits it all together. It's not just the lines between Fans and Showrunners that have blurred, but between Fans and Journalists, and Twitter throws them all in to the same feedback/discussion pot. The is whole coffee klatch of internet tv and pop culture writers discussing shows in real time on Twitter I feel like they decided together to give SH a Come to Jesus meeting.

And I think it is more effective than people might give it credit for.  I am watching S4 of Scandal after  a truly disastrous S3 (honestly, S3 of Scandal is like Terminator 3, The Godfather 3 and Aliens 3, they do not exist in my universe).  So many of my own complaints and the complaints that I saw of many other people on twitter on S3 are being addressed in S4 so far.  Shonnda Rhimes destroyed not only Olivia & Fitz but also Huck and the compelling storytelling from S1 & S2 in favor of a couple of characters that seemed to swallow the show:  Rowan/B613 who she introduced and he became the monster that ate DC and Mellie who she retconned to the point that she made Mellie a saint who seem more like the show's heroine than Liv.  Sound familiar?   Fans turned on Liv & Fitz and embraced Mellie.  Well, some fans.  Many others were vocal and bitter about how she'd made Liv this pitiful creature.  I myself wrote a whole screed on how unfeminist it was for her through Mellie to continue to slut shame Olivia.

 

One thing that Shonda does when faced with criticism is she will engage.  Sometimes her POV is still suspect, but she did not disrespect the fans.  And guess what?  S4 feels more like S1 & S2.  In just a few episodes she has managed to course correct on Liv and she is even managing to dint some of the halo she gave Mellie.

 

It can happen.  Now, in the case of Scandal, they have a lot more room (and waaay better ratings) to wiggle around in.  But the ratings or S4 have continued to improve over S3 each week.

 

SH can take notes and see how it can be done.

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vanarnd1

vanarnd1

(edited)

What I find dissapointing (but not really suprising) is how much the writers and producers leaned on social media to help build interest and create buzz in the show early on, but have now tried to downplay the social media reaction now that people have voiced their concerns about the show. Labeling people as "haters" and trying to ignore what is being said is shortsighted and exposes the ego of TPTB behind the scenes

 

Relating to real life, a tv show in the end relies on customers(viewers) to make money. Many companies expend a lot of resources to get customer feedback to hopefully improve processes and make their customers happy. In this sitaution social media is providing free feedback for the producers and yet it seems like everyone involved in the show is more interested in promoting their own agenda rather than trying to turn things around and get fans excited about the show again.

 

In today's climate people won't keep watching something if it is not entertaining. Viewers have so many different options for entertainment that it is very hard to get people to watch a show again once they have initally decided it is not worth their time. Despite this it seems like TPTB are willing to ignore the critics(and the declining ratings) and stay on their current course, which is really a shame for a show that has the blueprint to be great but seems to refuse to follow it.

Edited by vanarnd1
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Indi

Indi

What I want to know is, why aren't the showrunners speaking up? It's not just the twitterverse reacting to this awful season, but also several articles, including the New York Times, are calling the show out. Sending Nicole to calm down the fans is not enough, no matter how awesome and classy she is. These guys were first in line to congratulate themselves on the diversity of the show, they were first in line benefiting from the prestige it gave them, they should also be first now and address the criticism.

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fantique

fantique

(edited)

This is frustrating because I don't see how they don't see what at least 80% of the audience sees. Obviously they have a lot in store and maybe their plans align with our wishes for the future. I just don't get how they don't understand the viewers' point of view. I am a strong advocate of a creative team following the path they want to follow because ultimately that's the reason they're there. But when their intentions are not coming across, it's their failure. The SleepyCast for Heartless with Albert Kim for example revealed that we are supposed to see Henry as the enemy but the goal was to also sow this seed of doubt by looking at it from Katrina's perspective and feeling some kind of sympathy for her. The problems for me here: 1) on screen it comes off as we are supposed to embrace Katrina's view of Henry or at least tor, between the 2 arguments, 2) It hinges greatly on us connecting with and caring about the character and not many do, 3) It took a writer expressing it outside of the show for me to understand their intentions. 

Edited by fantique
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DearEvette

DearEvette

Not only the Abbie/Nicole fans, and now many critics, but even Facebook.  I tend to stay away from Facebook in SH fandom because it was always very pro-Katrina.  But boy have the tables turned there too.

 

And here is another interview with Nicole.  Interesting, this one has her sounding more like some fans than the insider.  But she still manages to be professional.  I love her interviews.  Be sure to watch the sneak peek at the end of the article.

 

http://www.tvguide.com/News/Sleepy-Hollow-Spoilers-Nicole-Beharie-1089272.aspx

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scarletregina

scarletregina

Hmmm so they were freaking out before the episodes of this season were written... Me thinks we've already seen some retaliatory writing.  Deliverance was DEFINITELY retaliatory - the writers went out of their way to stick it to Abbie and Ichabbie fans with that tripe.  I'm afraid we will see something retaliatory toward the end of the season.  Something worse than we've already seen.

 

And it's definitely fact that Irving and Jenny have been marginalized in favor of Katrina.

 

Just because a story doesn't play out the way that you want it doesn't make it retaliatory. Katrina was always meant to be a major player in the story. That was set up from the beginning. Hell, she's the first image in the opening credits. That's her raising her arms. While I would prefer that she take a backseat to Jenny, my opinion does and should not affect the story that the writers want to tell. 

 

Jenny isn't a witness and she's not a witch who helps to facilitate the end times. Again, I find Jenny more interesting, but the writers have a story that they want to tell. 

 

IMO the fact that Katrina and Ichabod have zero chemistry is the whole point. They're clinging to the past. They aren't in love anymore. They love the idea of each other. The characters need time to figure that out. They've hardly been in one another's presence since the show started. There's been no time for them to come to terms with that. Ichabod clearly *know* that's the case, but he's not willing to admit it. 

 

I don't like that the CFD takes center stage in most episodes, but I really do not understand fans who think the writers do that on purpose to make them angry. Yes, writers should change directions if their original story doesn't work out, but when you have a legion of fans and a tons of shippers, guess what? You can't please them all. The writers need to stick to their story. Assuming that their story is written just to spite a set of fans is ridiculous.

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savinggrace

savinggrace

IMO the fact that Katrina and Ichabod have zero chemistry is the whole point. They're clinging to the past. They aren't in love anymore. They love the idea of each other. The characters need time to figure that out. They've hardly been in one another's presence since the show started. There's been no time for them to come to terms with that. Ichabod clearly *know* that's the case, but he's not willing to admit it. 

 

 

See that stuff doesn't need to be in a show about the impending Apocalypse though. Ichatrina needs to "figure that out" in a separate web series apart from the main show because they're killing the mood and that is not what viewers signed up for. Why are we supposed care about their imploding relationship when demons are walking the earth and the End of Days is nigh?

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cynic

cynic

(edited)

Sleepy Hollow writer Albert Kim retweeted this:

Michael Ausiello

Michael Ausiello Verified Account

@MichaelAusiello

Breaking: SLEEPY HOLLOW doesn't need "fixing." The show is as good, if not better, than ever. Ratings don't = quality.

6:41 p.m. Wed, Nov 12

:/

Edited by cynic
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fantique

fantique

See that stuff doesn't need to be in a show about the impending Apocalypse though. Ichatrina needs to "figure that out" in a separate web series apart from the main show because they're killing the mood and that is not what viewers signed up for. Why are we supposed care about their imploding relationship when demons are walking the earth and the End of Days is nigh?

I agree that any romantic drama is silly. They maybe could have sold it if we cared about Katrina but since all she is is an avatar of the perfect fantasy genre woman, it falls short. 

What I liked in season one was that every bit of backstory tied back in to the 2 mains being Witnesses. It always informed us about how their lives were being manipulated by the big players, be it the Resistance or the witch clans. They should use the supernatural epic plot to further the character development. Each MotW should not only teach a lesson to them as part of the apocalypse fighting team and as human beings with connections, because heroes that fight with something to live for are better. I just want this to be a fun show. I don't need every show I watch to have high levels of angst with people spending time questioning the meaning of life and love while sulking and complaining.

 

 

Sleepy Hollow writer Albert Kim retweeted this:

Michael Ausiello

Michael Ausiello Verified Account

@MichaelAusiello

Breaking: SLEEPY HOLLOW doesn't need "fixing." The show is as good, if not better, than ever. Ratings don't = quality.

6:41 p.m. Wed, Nov 12

:/

I have heard some people say that, while they don't necessarily like Katrina and her increased presence, they prefer this season because it's more serious and the show takes itself more seriously. Not surprised. I liked season 1 better because not every single freaking show has to be trying to win an Emmy. I don't think the whole season sucks but the pacing and the lagging is tiresome and the last 2 episodes left us almost exactly where we were before them except I am aggravated with the Cranes for being fools. Showing Moloch as the cutest chubby baby once again reduced the stakes when they should be super high because MOLOCH IS HERE IN CORPOREAL FORM!!!!! Especially now that I am watching as the show goes on as opposed to binge watching it. It feels like we are not getting to the point or even worse, like there is no point. The show seems to be running in circles as opposed to moving forward. Then again I have never been a fan of "tortured" storylines. They always make it seem like the person is complacent about bad things happening and create a lot of their own problems with remarkable lack of self awareness.

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Indi

Indi

Sleepy Hollow writer Albert Kim retweeted this:

Michael Ausiello

Michael Ausiello Verified Account

@MichaelAusiello

Breaking: SLEEPY HOLLOW doesn't need "fixing." The show is as good, if not better, than ever. Ratings don't = quality.

6:41 p.m. Wed, Nov 12

:/

He would! We're just a bunch of haters for them anyway. But then...

 

The SleepyCast for Heartless with Albert Kim for example revealed that we are supposed to see Henry as the enemy but the goal was to also sow this seed of doubt by looking at it from Katrina's perspective and feeling some kind of sympathy for her.

Who in their right mind bases the main storyline on the weakest most annoying character and her feelings for a villain? Why would anyone in the audience want to see Henry redeemed, unless they wanted to die of boredom? Why is this show saddled with the most incompetent showrunners/writers?

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cynic

cynic

(edited)

Heartless was supposed to make me sympathize with Katrina's point of view? Wow, it failed miserably. It just made me feel like she's completely useless, horribly selfish, and utterly in denial. Great job, show! I don't understand the massive disconnect between what the writers think they're giving us versus what (most of) the audience is seeing.

Edited by cynic
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DearEvette

DearEvette

ust because a story doesn't play out the way that you want it doesn't make it retaliatory. Katrina was always meant to be a major player in the story. That was set up from the beginning. Hell, she's the first image in the opening credits. That's her raising her arms. While I would prefer that she take a backseat to Jenny, my opinion does and should not affect the story that the writers want to tell.

 

 

I think retaliatory is maybe a strong word.  But I can't help but believe that the increased focus on Katrina and to a lesser extend the forcible introduction of Hawley is a sort of response to the overwhelming, and if the writers are to be believed, unexpected shipper chemistry that Abbie and Ichabod have. 

 

Sure, tell your story that you were intending to tell.  But when you include constant references to how smart, powerful and brilliant Katrina is (without showing any evidence of it) when you have Abbie (who doesn't even know Katrina) propping her up ("she's a redhead, she's a witch...") ,when you have Ichabod being oddly dismissive of Abbie's valid concerns while making cow's eyes at his wife, and when you have Ichabod acting avuncular and telling (strong, capable) Abbie to protect his (wilting, feminine) wife, then you can't help but feel that some of what is playing out on the screen is not just 'telling the story.'  It feels like making a point. 

 

And since it seems that the shows that heavily feature Katrina are focused on romance/sex based themes (Weeping Lady, Succubus, Demon Baby), it seems even further evidence that it is a design to  raise the romantic profile of Katrina.. in a show that really shouldn't try so hard to be about romance.

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DJG1122

DJG1122

Sleepy Hollow writer Albert Kim retweeted this:

Michael Ausiello

Michael Ausiello Verified Account

@MichaelAusiello

Breaking: SLEEPY HOLLOW doesn't need "fixing." The show is as good, if not better, than ever. Ratings don't = quality.

6:41 p.m. Wed, Nov 12

:/

However, ratings do = cancellation or renewal. Who is Michael Ausiello and does anyone have his supervisor's email address? I've been neutral up to now, but this arrogance makes me mad.

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HalcyonDays

HalcyonDays

He would! We're just a bunch of haters for them anyway. But then...

 

Who in their right mind bases the main storyline on the weakest most annoying character and her feelings for a villain? Why would anyone in the audience want to see Henry redeemed, unless they wanted to die of boredom? Why is this show saddled with the most incompetent showrunners/writers?

 

These idiot writers. That's why they believe that Katrina is someone who should be put front and centre, to the detriment to every other character on the show, AND why they subsequently destroyed and/or sidelined every other character on this show (including Ichabod). Katrina/Katia is Goffman's and Albert Kim's muse (IMO), and the direction of the show clearly shows that. Their twitter responses totally indicate how out of touch with the fan base and what made the show work. *sigh*

 

Heartless was supposed to make me sympathize with Katrina's point of view? Wow, it failed miserably. It just made me feel like she's completely useless, horribly selfish, and utterly in denial. Great job, show! I don't understand the massive disconnect between what the writers think they're giving us versus what (most of) the audience is seeing.

 

I'm supposed to sympathize with a swooning, weak, smug, delusional, manipulative, pathological lying witch? I'm supposed to feel sympathy for a woman who would rather let other people die, then to take out her old man son - the one she GAVE UP in the first place? I'm supposed to care for a woman who turns her husband into a simpering idiot? I'm supposed to care about a woman who says "It is what I believe, and all that matters?" Who died and made you queen, when the end of the world is at risk? Bitch, please.

 

I wonder if there is this division in the writers room. Pro-Katrina/Henry story line, and others who are like *shrug*. Philip Iscove - whom I actually like - retweeted this, which is nice to see.

 

Phillip Iscove retweeted

Marisa Roffman @marisaroffman  ·  7h 7 hours ago

This Monday's episode of #SleepyHollow is my favorite of the season so far. Nicole Beharie and Lyndie Greenwood are so, so good.

 

Can we make him showrunner? (he is the creator of SH (idea was his), along with Orci and Kurtzman).

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