Mercy Street - General Discussion

[Hero]

I like this show. The first episode was a little slow moving, but that was to be expected.

I didn't recognize Josh Radnor at first. I think he looks kind of cute with beard.

[Thumper]

Someone upthread asked why they made Mary the head nurse.  My impression was the battle axe woman (Dix?) at the first place was annoyed with Mary, and decided  to send her away AND make her "head nurse" to make life difficult for her (Mary).

[blackwing]

I didn't completely follow all of that either, but yes, Dorothea Dix is known in history as a crusader for the mentally ill.  She was made Superintendent of Nurses for the army, how, I didn't fully follow, because as best as I can tell, she had no medical training (which was echoed in the doctor's incredulity over the ligature and his "who trained Miss Dix?!" comment).  I agree that she sent Mary to the Union Hospital in Virginia because she was being a beeyotch.  She didn't like Mary and she wanted to teach her a life lesson.  I'm not exactly sure how or why Mary was made head nurse.  I think it was said that Mary was the first Dix nurse sent to that hospital.  If this was a hospital run by the Union Army, and she was in charge of the Union nurses, how is it that there was no one there before?  The army moved in and took over the Greens' hotel and turned it into a hospital.  Clearly there were other nurses there, there was the matron, and the uppity "I know Florence" lady, but there must have been others who were there before Mary.  Wouldn't one of them have been head nurse?

 

I also was unclear on exactly how much training Mary had.  My impression was that she had little to no experience.  Her husband died in Boston, she got bored, so moved to Washington to try and make a difference.  Not sure how she went from new recruit to head nurse overnight.  Also, if she was truly the head nurse, she should have put her foot down and claimed a bed and made one of the other nurses sleep with the rats.  That part was so contrived just to make us sympathetic to her.  The whole business with the rats isn't going to go anywhere of course, but it'd be funny if the episode opened with her nursing half a dozen rat bites on her arm.

[AuntiePam]

I think Mary made herself the Head Nurse -- which was another reason I didn't like the character.  She has limited nursing experience from taking care of her late husband.  I doubt his medical problems involved gunshots, saber wounds, gangrene, etc.  So she knows nothing about nursing soldiers and even less about managing other nurses.

[blackwing]

I think Mary made herself the Head Nurse -- which was another reason I didn't like the character.  She has limited nursing experience from taking care of her late husband.  I doubt his medical problems involved gunshots, saber wounds, gangrene, etc.  So she knows nothing about nursing soldiers and even less about managing other nurses.

I really don't think so.  I think Dix specifically told Mary that she was going to be the Head Nurse.  I think she did it on purpose.  She didn't like Mary's abolitionist views so she purposely assigned her to a hospital in a Southern state.  I completely agree with you that she is unqualified.  As she told Diggs, she doesn't like the sight of blood.  How could she have been a nurse if she doesn't like blood?  Southern Belle got blood splashed all over her white gown and didn't even complain about it, and I think she is equally inexperienced.

Edited January 20, 2016 by blackwing

[seacliffsal]

Many, many things were modernized-especially regarding genders, roles, and conversational language. Yet, I will give this a couple more episodes and will hopefully enjoy it as time goes on.

If someone could help me out-I thought at one point one of the wounded said that the young boy's blood had dried onto the flag pole and that's why he was still holding it. Was there anything else? If not, why wouldn't they have wetted the blood and taken the flag pole from his hands? I just didn't understand why they left it. I would appreciate any clarification someone has.

[AuntiePam]

If someone could help me out-I thought at one point one of the wounded said that the young boy's blood had dried onto the flag pole and that's why he was still holding it. Was there anything else? If not, why wouldn't they have wetted the blood and taken the flag pole from his hands? I just didn't understand why they left it. I would appreciate any clarification someone has.

 

I think they let him hold on to the flag pole because they knew he couldn't be saved and they weren't even going to try.  I think the doctor said the boy was "full of buckshot".  So it comforted the boy, to die holding the flag. 

[j5cochran]

Surprisingly, Mary Phinney was real.  I found a biography of her online, edited from her diary and correspondence by James Phinney Munroe (I am guessing he is some relation).

 

The book is Adventures of an Army Nurse in Two Wars, and can be read online here:

https://archive.org/stream/armynurse00olnhrich#page/n0/mode/2up

[tennisgurl]

Haaaaaaaave you met Dr. Ted!

 

I am on a bit of a Period Piece kick, and the Civil War is one of my favorite historical periods, so I am in for this, even if right now its rather generic, as far as period pieces go. The cast has a lot of *Hey, its that one guy/gal* types of actors I know from other stuff, and that always makes for interesting viewing. As for historical accuracy...maybe it will get better? I hope that they give us a better feeling of time and place soon, as of this episode, it feels a bit too modern, even with all the period clothes. Its no The Knick, but I think it has potential. 

[HoodlumSheep]

Her bio on pbs says she's 30. Or that she basically just turned 30. Just a random fact. I've been wondering how old she was since she have that "advice" to Emma Green. I couldn't tell if she was older-ish or decently young (but with the "grown-up" beyond her years attitude).

I also googled real life Mary Phinney to see what would pop up. I only read the Wikipedia bit (which is basically a short paragraph).

Oddly enough, I want to know more about her late husband and her marriage. What caused him to die? Disease? An illness of sorts? I hope we get to learn a little more about her past as the series goes on.

Edited January 23, 2016 by HoodlumSheep

[attica]

she recoiled from things you'd have expected a nurse to have experienced before.

 

I think her nursing experience was for ailing invalids, not battlefield injuries. Which, let's face it, is a whole nother barrow of severed limbs.

 

I think the usage of "Miss Phinney" as opposed to "Mrs, Whathisname" is proper here. I think it's the historical convention, just as in  Downton Abbey, where the virginal, never married cook and housekeeper are both addressed as Mrs. Patmore/Mrs. Hughes. Of course it would be absurd socially, but in a working environment, I think it's on point for the era.

[HoodlumSheep]

Here's an excerpt from real-life Mary Phinney's writing. Don't know how much is exaggerated, though.

http://www.civilwarhome.com/baronessvonolnhausen.html

She talks about the sleeping situation and how she basically had zero nursing experience.

Edited January 23, 2016 by HoodlumSheep

[xyzzy]

I agree with the comments that it seemed too modern.  A lot of the speech and accents seemed too modern American.  Example, when one soldier said something like "Yeah, enforce the rules!"  Shouldn't it have been something like "Verily, we must ensure enforcement of the rules." 

 

If you read diaries, letters, and collections of slang and catchphrases from the Civil War era, the speech is not nearly as formal as one might suppose. Some phrases that can be traced to this era include things like "Let 'er rip," "hoofin' it," and "high muckety-muck." Letters home might be more formally written but a lot of this depended on the education of the soldier in question.

[Kiss my mutt]

This show kind of pissed me off! It was so hackneyed and careless! The accents and speech were deplorable and took me out of the scenes.

I don't even like the main character. I'm more interested in how "hoop skirt" puts away childish things and the civilian Doctor fare.

[formerlyfreedom]

Dr. Foster confronts his family’s divided loyalties when his mother and wounded Confederate brother arrive. Alice is shocked to find her fiancé, Tom, deeply changed by war. Samuel and Aurelia try to persuade a slave boy to seize a chance at freedom.

 

 

[jschoolgirl]

Well, the speech was more florid and mannered this week, and thus more appropriate to the era than last week.

But Dr. EyeForMary's comment about "not in my job description" seems really, really anachronistic.

[HoodlumSheep]

Silas is gross. I'm hoping something bad happens to him.

Loving Mr. Diggs.

The Florence Nightingale fanatic has claimed the "witch" title.

I enjoyed the Med-apprentice. I don't understand why he didn't offer Nurse-Duchess-Baroness Mary his bed though. He had only fainted from seeing the surgery/blood. He was perfectly capable of sleeping on the floor instead of Lady-Viscountess Mary.

Dr. Ted's morphine/drug addiction has officially begun. And the wife situation...let me guess: She leaves and he eventually hooks up with Queen-Dame-Countess-Princess Mary. And if the show lasts enough seasons the wife will probably show up again to stir up some drama.

I hope Hale gets fired. Or fails the new (?), harder med exams (?).

And Tom Fairfax is totally gonna cause trouble.

I bet those nurses are calling Baroness-Nurse Mary the Ice Queen behind her back.

Edited January 25, 2016 by HoodlumSheep

[Greta]

Dr. Ted's morphine/drug addiction has officially begun. And the wife situation...let me guess: She leaves and he eventually hooks up with Queen-Dame-Countess-Princess Mary. And if the show lasts enough seasons the wife will probably show up again to stir up some drama.

I hope Hale gets fired. Or fails the new (?), harder med exams (?).

And Tom Fairfax is totally gonna cause trouble.

 

 Seconding points one and three, but gasp, fire Hale?  Surely, you jest?  Who will have bitchfests in bed with Miss Hastings?!  Those two scenes were my favorite part.

 

This is far from perfect, but I'm enjoying it. The characterizations especially are really working for me and I feel like that actors are both comfortable and have room to grow.  Gary Cole also reminded me that I need to order American Gothic on Amazon Prime for a nice bingewatch; it will help me deal with the betrayal that is the new "American Gothic" which apparently isn't going to be about Sheriff Satan or even the South.

[lucindabelle]

Would someone explain who bullies works for that he can afford to be so offensive and corrupt and aggressive?

[AuntiePam]

 Gary Cole also reminded me that I need to order American Gothic on Amazon Prime for a nice bingewatch; it will help me deal with the betrayal that is the new "American Gothic" which apparently isn't going to be about Sheriff Satan or even the South.

 

Warning about  the original American Gothic: The episodes on the DVDs are out of order.

 

I could hate-watch this but life's too short and I'm too old.  Mary's been in the hospital for most of a day and all of a night, and she's just now asking for the location of the water closet?  Not surprisingly, she woke from a day of hard dirty work and a night sleeping on a floor looking (as my mom used to say) like she just stepped out of a bandbox. 

 

Dr. Hale (?) is not only sexing when he should be working, it has to include oral -- so progressive!  Yeah, I know oral isn't a 20th century invention, but puh-leeze!  Then we have the doctor mentioning Dr. Broca (of Broca's Brain fame, I assume) to hit us with the We Did Our Homework Anvil.

 

In addition to "not in my job description", there was another bit of modern dialogue during the disagreement with the two doctors, with another saying "I'll just be over here". 

 

Way too modern -- this belongs on ABC.

[Blergh]

Hmm, not as good as the first installment. OK, It was gritty (and depressing) how Silas could literally corner the desperate Aurelia into that wretched bond. As despicable as that was, it WAS depicted in a more realistic way than the trysts between Dr. Hale and Miss Hastings.  I'm not going to pretend that NO nurses were  incapable of doing that sort of that back then. However; for the two of them to get completely NAKED in a rather crowded hospital where every single bed was highly prized and with NO chance of anyone knocking on  or peeking inside   the ONE closed bedroom much less seeing one or both of them in the altogether (and of course being gossiped by everyone besides JUST the all seeing Matron) was rather bogus.  I'd think Miss Hasting would at the very least have found a FAR more discreet way to conduct said trysts (and, of course, Miss Nightingale herself would have likely never hired a East End London slum girl to be a nurse much less put up with ANY of her staff having trysts).

   

 

 I have to admit being intrigued by Mr. Green the Confederate RESISTING his paid workers being re-enslaved. Of course, it should be noted that right up to end of the Civil War the Fugitive Slave Act was ENFORCED even in Northern States.

 

 Good luck with Dr. Foster's wife determined to galavant ALL the way to California even without her husband in the years before the transcontinental railroad when she was shown needing a servant (?) to dress.

 

   OK, the nameless nun got a name (Isabella) but still no word why she was the ONLY nun working there.

 

 And even subtracting the rather heinous behavior that Silas has displayed to Aurelia (and MARY) , exactly what benefit is it to the US Army to have HIM be in charge of the hospital food and supplies since he doesn't appear to even remotely being doing his actual job.

[LiveenLetLive]

I'm liking it so far despite anachronisms, I find that it seems to reasonably catch what an odd time it must have been with the blurred line between North and South, free people of color and slaves, etc. I always enjoy Gary Cole--and I am so glad that I didn't watch How I Met Your Mother!

[AzureOwl]

Would someone explain who bullies works for that he can afford to be so offensive and corrupt and aggressive?

 

Silas works for the US Army. He is the hospital's quartermaster. Somebody with more knowledge than me will have to let us know if the quartermaster in a military hospital is in the chain of command of the hospital's Chief Surgeon or if it's the same case as with the nurses. Would there have been a counterpart of Nurse Nix in the US Army assigning the quartermasters? 

 

And even subtracting the rather heinous behavior that Silas has displayed to Aurelia (and MARY) , exactly what benefit is it to the US Army to have HIM be in charge of the hospital food and supplies since he doesn't appear to even remotely being doing his actual job.

 

The benefit they get out of it is that he is actually willing to do the job. The Army probably has only so many experienced quartermasters and the good ones are in all likelihood accompanying the forces on the front lines, leaving whatever is left to attend the hospitals.

 

The doctors in charge of the hospital have probably figured long ago that its a choice between Silas doing the job or them having to do it themselves because the Army won't have someone to send as replacement or end up sending someone worse. And that's assuming that Dr. Summers isn't getting a cut. And even if he isn't, Dr. Summers strikes me as the type who would pretend the problem didn't exist unless it blows up right in front of his face, just so that he doesn't have to deal with it. 

 

It is also historically accurate in that the position of quartermaster is one that presents the most opportunities for corruption in the military. It was common enough that there is a trope about it in fiction. 

Edited January 25, 2016 by AzureOwl

[Hero]

I like this show.

I love the scene where Dr. Hale was being nice to Ms. Phinney then quickly realized that he promised Ms. Hastings that he would be mean to her.

Silas reminds me of the character Bellick from Prison Break, the actor plays both people.

[MissLucas]

I would like to love that show but I'm struggling. There are some interesting characters - like Mr Green and his older daughter, Diggs and Aurelia.There are the utter villainous caricatures: Miss Hastings, Dr. Hale and Silas. And then the comfortable tropy characters: Doctor Ted with his morphine addiction and the nagging wife, Mrs Phinney with her impeccable manners (and saddled with the ridiculous running gag of not having a bed) and blond airhead younger Green daughter. Somehow all those characters together don't create a vivid tapestry for me - it all feels a tad incoherent and predictable at the same time.

 

ETA: According to this helpful link posted in the pilot thread the sleeping situation is not a ridiculous running gag: http://www.civilwarhome.com/baronessvonolnhausen.html

Though I have to agree with the above poster that feebly fainting medical student not offering her his bed was very weird. He wasn't exactly fighting for his life.

Edited January 25, 2016 by MissLucas

[MissLucas]

Here's an excerpt from real-life Mary Phinney's writing. Don't know how much is exaggerated, though.

http://www.civilwarhome.com/baronessvonolnhausen.html

She talks about the sleeping situation and how she basically had zero nursing experience.

Thanks for the link - so the sleeping situation was really as ridiculous as the show has made it out to be, sheesh.

[AuntiePam]

 Somehow all those characters together don't create a vivid tapestry for me - it all feels a tad incoherent and predictable at the same time.

 

"Incoherent and predictable" -- that's how I've felt too.  I don't know if it's the writing, the directing, or the acting.  It's like the writers are throwing in everything that's been successful in other productions but instead of a smooth blend, we're getting gumbo.

[BusyOctober]

OK, I am officially hate-watching vs. enjoying a fine PBS period drama. If I keep watching it will be only to see how many things are anachronistic/out of place/laughable/soap operatic. This production is a mess. Just...wow.  I think Carol Burnet & Harvey Korman portrayed more realistic Southerners  in their brilliant send up of "Gone With the Wind".

 

It (almost) makes me feel bad about snarking on Jeremy Pivan's acting abilities in "Selfridges". Piven looks like a Royal Shakespeare stage genius like Lawrence Olivier or Alec Guinness compared to the "Mercy Street" cast.

Edited January 25, 2016 by BusyOctober

[tennisgurl]

I think this is an interesting time and place in history, so I will probably keep watching, even with the obvious character archetypes, and some anachronistic language. The acting, to me, is pretty decent, except for Mary. I normally like that actress, but she just comes off a little too modern here. At least most of the other actors feel pretty period appropriate, but she seems like she just stepped out of a time machine. I am really hoping this gets better. I liked the second episode better than the first, so maybe it will.  

[cattykit]

I shouldn't be surprised that the heroine is someone they call a nurse, who doesn't have any actual nurse's training or any nurse's experience, who got the job because she basically asked for it.  Even in my nursing career, I've encountered people who helped bathe a family member or maybe changed a dressing and think they have the same skillset I do.  I just don't like it.

 

Could we maybe just once have a period piece where no one gets raped?  Please?

[lucindabelle]

Huh. My dad was a quartermaster in wwii and even if he weren't unbeleivably decent there were checks and balances.

The feast In the basement, with huge fowls just waiting to be carved, while people literally starved upstairs, was laughable overkill.

[blackwing]

I thought this episode was much much better than the first. The women seemed a little less modern and the manner of speech seemed a lot more period appropriate.

Last week I disliked both Mary and... Emma(?) a lot. This week I really felt bad for them. Mary is trying hard, and is being mistreated by everyone except the Matron and Dr. Foster. Emma just wants the Southern soldiers to get equal treatment.

I do feel the show is a little heavy handed in its feminist slant. As Mary told Miss Hastings when extending an olive branch, they live in a man's world. I hope we don't constantly get hit over the head with that.

[HoodlumSheep]

I'm sticking with the show. I have nothing else to watch at 10 p.m. On Sunday evenings. It's entertaining enough. I like Diggs (I like his actor), Aurelia (is that how you spell it?), I like Emma, Mr. Green interests me enough. Duchess-Nurse Mary and Dr. Foster are decent enough. Percival Squivers is kind of entertaining. I hope he isn't just used for comic-relief.

I'm definitely watching until that gross Silas gets his comeuppance. He can't get away with his evilness for the entire series. Something's got to happen to him. Maybe Tom Fairfax will snap and off him. Or he could die in a fire...Choke on a bone from his fancy food he gets...buried alive in one of those coffins Mr. Green makes...endless possibilities.

[AzureOwl]

Huh. My dad was a quartermaster in wwii and even if he weren't unbeleivably decent there were checks and balances.

Checks and balances that had to be put in place because of the previous existence of people like Silas. And it is still going on on a even more epic scale: Special Report: The Pentagon's doctored ledgers conceal epic waste

 

The feast In the basement, with huge fowls just waiting to be carved, while people literally starved upstairs, was laughable overkill.

You would be surprised. Even in this day and age there are crooks that flaunt their proceeds of their corruption in public. I have no trouble believing that this guy would do something like that.

Edited January 26, 2016 by AzureOwl

[lucindabelle]

oh i totally believe hed be that corrupt i just thought the feast was a little ridiculous, like where would the turkeys even come from?

[Bunty]

I just assumed they hunted wild turkeys.  Here is picture of a wild turkey perching on a Dahlgren gun along with an article about the war in Alexandria.

 

 

https://www.alexandriava.gov/uploadedFiles/historic/info/attic/2014/Attic20140724BatteryRodgersCannon.pdf

[SusanSunflower]

 

Could we maybe just once have a period piece where no one gets raped?  Please?

yes, the foreshadowing of wimmen in peril was too much  .... see also, the foreshadowing of racist violence ... it's all too self-consciously a tableau of issues ... triggered my "run forrest run"  fight-or-flight anxiety instincts. 

[BooksRule]

Well, the speech was more florid and mannered this week, and thus more appropriate to the era than last week.

 

But Dr. EyeForMary's comment about "not in my job description" seems really, really anachronistic.

 

I also wondered about the use of the word 'frickin' (or 'frigging') when the guy was yelling to get his wooden leg back (unless I mis-heard and another totally different word was used).  According to what I could find out, both words weren't in use until sometime into the 20th century (no earlier than 1910s from what I could find out).

[jschoolgirl]

I also wondered about the use of the word 'frickin' (or 'frigging') when the guy was yelling to get his wooden leg back (unless I mis-heard and another totally different word was used).  According to what I could find out, both words weren't in use until sometime into the 20th century (no earlier than 1910s from what I could find out).

You did not mishear it.

[HoodlumSheep]

Anyone take the civil war medical quiz they have on the mercy street pbs page? It's just a simple questionnaire.

http://www.pbs.org/mercy-street/extras/quizzes/civil-war-medicine-quiz/

I got a lousy 33% :P I'm such a failure.

There's a couples quiz and a "which mercy street woman are you?" Quiz too. :P

I also watched the short video on the costumes and set. Nothing much, but I tend to enjoy such videos. Not too spoilery. Wish they would have talked a bit more.

http://www.thirteen.org/programs/mercy-street/civil-war-style/?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=mercystreet_civilwarstyle_01272016

What do people think of the preacher guy and Emma? We still haven't seen Frank (?) yet, though.

The preacher guy is so familiar, but when I looked up his film credits, I haven't seen a single thing of his.

Edited January 27, 2016 by HoodlumSheep

[hoosiermommy]

   

 

 I have to admit being intrigued by Mr. Green the Confederate RESISTING his paid workers being re-enslaved. Of course, it should be noted that right up to end of the Civil War the Fugitive Slave Act was ENFORCED even in Northern States.

 

A law passed in March 1862 prohibited army and navy personnel from spending any resources to return fugitive slaves. The date predates the time of this episode (the celebration at the end of the first episode was for yhe battle of Williamsburg in May 1862).

I love this time period but am alright with allowing creative license for dramatic reasons, but this is a huge gaff and it is either the writers not being very careful or being deliberate in villianizing the a Union cause especially when juxtaposed with the "ethical" slave owner.

[LittleIggy]

If bed space was at such a premium why would Nurse Bitch have her own private room? Her having her own room just to have trysts with her lover is ridiculous.

I too loved Gary Cole in "American Gothic"!

[LittleIggy]

I made a 66% on the media quiz, I'm most like Mary, however, my couple is the bad one! I had no idea which Taylor Swift song to pick since I have, fortunately, never heard them (can't stand her)!! Took a guess.

[hoosiermommy]

100% on the medical quiz makes me a Civil War geek. Also knowing the guy from the National Museum of Civil War Medicine (the one in the explanations) plays a mean banjo make mean uber geek.

[BusyOctober]

It took me a couple of days, but I figured out what this series reminds me of - and not in a good way.  Anyone remember the mini series "North & South"?  It was based on the John Jakes books and Patrick Swayze was in it.  It was so OTT 80's soap opera acting.  In fact Genie Francis from "General Hospital" was in it.  She played a  simpering Southern blonde sister who ends up marrying a Union soldier.  That's who the simpering Southern blonde sister in "Mercy Street" reminded me of & triggered the "North & South" comparison.

[attica]

It may have been a legal requirement for blondes in the South to simper. I'd have to look it up....

[Milz]

 

 

I think the usage of "Miss Phinney" as opposed to "Mrs, Whathisname" is proper here. I think it's the historical convention, just as in  Downton Abbey, where the virginal, never married cook and housekeeper are both addressed as Mrs. Patmore/Mrs. Hughes. Of course it would be absurd socially, but in a working environment, I think it's on point for the era

 

Mary is  a widow.  She would be addressed as Mrs. Baumkuchen whether she was working as a laundress or as nurse. Besides, this is America, not England.

[attica]

Given that we've seen several characters give her shit over her husband's name, I'm thinking she's made the calculation. And she wouldn't be  the first. 

[Milz]

So Miss Hastings was born and raised in East London and has a posh accent?

 

Anyhow, Frank Burns complained to Henry Blake about Hawkeye. And Frank and Margaret plot against Hawkeye. Oooops! Dr. Hale filed a complaint against Dr. Foster.  And Dr. Hale and Miss Hastings plot against Dr. Foster.

 

Meanwhile, House is secretly shooting himself with morphine, which would make him sleepy and dull his mentation. Ooops! Dr. Foster is an impaired physician.

 

Jo is working at the hospital while Amy is more concerned about her hair ribbons. Oooops! Emma is working at the hospital while Alice is staying at home. James Jr is probably the WORST businessman in the world (next to Robert Crawley). Fugitive slave trackers kidnap part of your workforce and it's "not our battle"? Really?  He does realize that elves only help shoemakers.....

[Milz]

I think they gave Mary a hard time because they think she's a rich widow who wants an adventure, not someone serious about doing work.