Season 4 Discussion

[halgia]

Yeah, weird. No walkers, but a seemingly endless supply of plant mulch, finger paints, and mohair for sweaters. Go figure.

Yeah, definitely.

Are they doing something we don't know about to keep the walkers away? (That fence is way less sturdy than the prison one.) Are walkers just not attracted to hipsters? Or was it just so bad at the prison because they kept bringing cars in and out and Lizzie kept feeding them?

I was thinking that there aren't that many of them so they're not that loud / don't draw very many, but that doesn't jive with how every time the main characters hide out in a house for a night a bunch of walkers show up.

[kikismom]

Oops! I was thinking they were recycling the walkers into their artisan supplies.

Only hipsters could make the end of the world sustainable.

[Pixiebomb]

I agree that there has GOT to be something more to Terminus than canabalism because it is so obvious that everything points to canabalism. The writers have to be deeper than that. Please let that be true.

[Turtle]

 

I've always thought that, at the root of it, is that Carl "has a whole lot of Shane in him." I think Carl's brain just works a lot more like Shane's than Rick's.

Yes!  I loved Shane, because he seemed to be all about just getting the job done and taking care of the people important to him, without a lot of emotional angst or internal struggle.  And I see a lot of that in Carl, too.  But Carl could maybe use a little more internal struggle, methinks. 

[bravelittletoaster]

Are they doing something we don't know about to keep the walkers away? (That fence is way less sturdy than the prison one.) Are walkers just not attracted to hipsters?

OMG the secret was PBR all along!

[maystone]

In retrospect I like this episode more than I did while watching it. I was so convinced by the hype surrounding this episode that at least one of the main characters was going to die that I kept watching the clock instead of the screen and kept wondering how they were going to pull off killing someone *and* wrap up the chase scene in the remaining five minutes or whatever it was. I was more confused than invested, and that's on me. Happily Omar's recap filled in the blanks. Thank you, Omar!

I was horrified by the near-rape of Carl and more than half convinced that they were really going to carry through with it. Then I was horrified again when Rick ripped out Joe's throat. But good on TWD for doing both of those things, because we've been hearing about the brutality and depravity of gangs like the Marauders, but we hadn't really seen it. This made it very, very real for me. And Rick's reaction had to equal the threat, which it did in spades.

I've been enjoying reading all the different theories about the Termini, but I'm not wholly sold on any one of them. If they're cannibals, I don't think they're just cannibals. (I'm channeling my inner Carol: You can be a cannibal, Garth; you just can't be only a cannibal.) The writings on the wall are intriguing, to put it mildly. Never Again (Holocaust!) Never Trust (Not a good sign that they're open to new members) We First, Always (Grammarians!) See, right there they have a saving grace. The thing that threw me the most, though? All of those candles. Unless one of their group had stumbled upon a giant Yankee Candle supply house, they were making those candles themselves. You can make candles from rendered fat. (Never Again!) It creeped me out more than anything else at Terminus.

As to poor Beth, I think she's found herself in a whole other plot line. Let me out myself fight now as a Beth fan. Now that Hershel is gone, the mantle of Moral Center is resting on her wee shoulders. She's her father's child, much more so than Maggie. It was Beth who was always speaking Hershel's precepts to the others, and she certainly had an affect on Daryl. That little moment in Claimed when Daryl was going to cover Len's body with that old drop cloth - that was a direct reference to Beth getting him to help cover that woman's corpse in Still because "it matters." I think the show has bigger plans for her.

I'm psyched for the show to come back. October seems so very far away.

Edited April 2, 2014 by maystone

[Milaxx]

I suspect Beth is off somewhere, preggers or about to be.

 

I certainly hope not. One pregnancy and infant is more than enough.

I've been enjoying reading all the different theories about the Termini, but I'm not wholly sold on any one of them. If they're cannibals, I don't think they're just cannibals. (I'm channeling my inner Carol: You can be a cannibal, Garth; you just can't be only a cannibal.) The writings on the wall are intriguing, to put it mildly. Never Again (Holocaust!) Never Trust (Not a good sign that they're open to new members) We First, Always (Grammarians!) See, right there they have a saving grace. The thing that threw me the most, though? All of those candles. Unless one of their group had stumbled upon a giant Yankee Candle supply house, they were making those candles themselves. You can make candles from rendered fat. (Never Again!) It creeped me out more than anything else at Terminus.

 

I agree. That room with the candles had a very cult like vibe that was very different from the hipster propaganda center Rick and them walked in on. I think Mary may be the leader and chef cook/cannibal maker but I think Garth is in charge of the candle cult.

[Luckedout]

I originally posted this on TWOP, but I think it can fit here too. I'm getting on the "It's more than cannibalism" bandwagon. Like Daryleena said, it's too scripted:

~~~

On the episode thread someone mentioned that they haven't seen conclusive proof that the Termites are cannibals, just a lot of allusions. Others have mentioned and we've seen deer and other game still kicking about, so not really noticing scarcity for food yet. Someone else posted that TPTB stated that Terminus has some surprises in store and isn't what it seems.

I don't remember where but someone had mentioned that Terminus must have a copywriter with their catchy slogans on the sign.

In the speculation without Spoilers thread, I had this brain fart.
 
 

 

You know, this talk about Beth (being indoctrinated at Terminus) stirred up a kooky idea. There was definitely a point when the Termites said over the radio that the group was headed towards B and was steered away from there. What if the Termites believe in Personality types A/B?...Could the Hipsters be new agey pop-psych Hippies too? Food for thought.

Gareth very easily lied about the Riot Gear (off a cop) and the poncho (off a clothesline). No twitch, no hesitation. Quick improvisation under high pressure in front of a crowd.

Now, this all leads me to believe... that he was a theater major and Terminus is an elaborate Haunted House. Before you roll your eyes away, let me explain. It makes a twisted funny logic that has no place with the Walking Dead tone, I just need to put it out there.

Through a set path, the group is sent through the shot up backlot *look at our firepower OOOOoooooOOOh*, then the Candle Room *Dark flickering lights, creepy ritualistic decoration, threatening mantra-like phrases AAAAAAAAAAAHHhhhhh* then by the Field of oddly visible Gristle and Bone (that might be skinned walkers) *aren't you intimidated yet? Crazy stuff is going on!* The screaming boxcar for help *Terminus is super prepared, this is easy to fake with motivated Termites*.

Finally, the group is herded into a dead end surrounded on all sides. The characters are named (Ringleader, Samurai, etc) and the stage curtain falls. Possible bad guys are incarcerated, no blood spilled.

We've never seen a Termite kill. Just insinuations. What if it's all camouflage? Like a harmless milk snake trying to look like a venomous coral snake.

ETA:
Path B might just be rooms of laughing children and daisy-chains kumbaya. Grab a hot shower and a plate of mystery meat. Those who arrive (and are approved of), survive.

Edited April 2, 2014 by Luckedout

[JackONeill]

I wonder if the people wearing our people's stuff (e.g., Daryl's poncho) knew how and why?  For instance, maybe someone said they were cold, and Gareth or Mary reached into a closet and said, "Here, take this."  (I mean, obviously in that situaton, Gareth and Mary would know it came from Maggie.)  But does everyone in Terminus know the dirty little secret?  Are some of them being fattened up for slaughter (most certainly)?  Are some being readied to stand guard duty (probably)?  Who makes those decisions?

Sure, I think you'd have to be a little dumb to not realize something's going on.  Then again, it is a haven.  There are no Walkers.  You haven't been eaten yet, by either a dead person or a living person  (there's a plus to that).  (Again, I'm not condoning this.  I'm merely stating my view of human nature.)

After all, human nature is a weird thing.  We're not all hereos.  Many more of us prefer the "non confrontation" approach.

I do think, too, that Beth will play in the rescue of our team.  I think that's what the last few episodes with her have been leading too.  (Otherwise, those episode would be a total waste if she just . . . died.)

Edited April 2, 2014 by JackONeill

[kikismom]

As they said in Dr. Strangelove, I'll run this up the flagpole and see if anyone salutes.

"A" is where they keep outsiders, and where they work on marketing/propaganda (same difference).

"B" is where the Termites actually live themselves, which is why they want to keep others away?

Carol, who has spent time previously lurking in the woods to spy on her group, is the shadowy figure in the background. She witnesses the burial of the guns, and now knowing Rick and Carl are alive and wanting to reunite Judith with them and save the group, Carol goes to Terminus. She pretends to be a gullible mook, goes along with everything, and unlike Rickster does NOT reveal that she recognizes clothing and accessories. She gets the lay of the land, snoops out where the group is being held, and waits for her opportunity, at which point she makes a prearranged signal to Tyreese (safely outside the fence, again- smarter planning than Rick). A distraction is created for the Termites, Tyreese throws the guns over the fence to Carol, she frees (and arms) our little orphans-of-the-shitstorm. Kill Termites, free captive redshirts, reunite loved ones, warrior-parent figure dies a martyrs death, this time Carol channeling Herschel's demise. Damn, I feel a sense of deja vu'.

[Mattipoo]

I can see Carol, Tyrese, Judith, and Beth saving the group by infiltrating the Termites by pretending to become one of them. Hope the termites don't eat Judith first though.

[Mattipoo]

The most satisfying part of the finale for me was when Rick went apeshit on Joe and the fat would-be rapist. The Merles definitely got their comeuppance and I hope the same happens to the termites. I like my Rick to remain a BAMF like he was in this episode.

[NoWillToResist]

 

Forgot to mention how much I love Michonne and Carl's relationship. First, she comforts him, and then she confides in him about the terrible things that she had done. They are developing a mother/son relationship that feels real and the natural result of all the horrible things that they experience together.

Michonne has been a better mother to Carl in her short time with him than Lori, as far as I've seen.

I was really bothered by the hype for this episode. I think the showrunner had said how it was going to be hell waiting for next season and blah blah crazy cliffhanger blah. And so I watched the episode in fear of how it would end, and then...it ended the way it did and I was all "...wait...what?" I'm not despairing that I have to wait 6 months to see what happens next. As we neared the final minutes, I thought they'd end it with Carl outside the traincar and we'd cut to Rick inside the car hearing a gunshot, and we're all left to wonder if Carl had just been killed or something. So, Rick's "they're screwing with the wrong people" was anticlimactic at best.

It was a fine episode...it just couldn't live up to the hype it was given, IMO.

I also have to book  my tickets to hell since I laughed when my husband called Carl 'veal' when they were all held at gunpoint at the end.

[HighMaintenance]

Nah, I bet Carol dangles Judith from a stick like a carrot (as a promise of a veal scallopini dinner) and lead the termites away while Tyreese rescues camp boxcar and they make their escape.

[Eucrid]

The explanation is that they trap people, kill, and eat them. The people crying for help in the other freight carriers when Rick and the others were running certainly did not volunteer to be locked up like cattle any more than Rick's group did.

My worry is that they don't trap, kill and eat people but instead trap, eat and kill people. Thats much scarier.

[bravelittletoaster]

My worry is that they don't trap, kill and eat people but instead trap, eat and kill people. Thats much scarier.

Ha.  I think [going waaaaaaaaay back in the memory] Nathan Fillion's character said something similar about the Reavers on Firefly once, about how they'd murder you, rape you and eat you, and if you were really lucky they'd do it in that order.

[halgia]

Ha.  I think [going waaaaaaaaay back in the memory] Nathan Fillion's character said something similar about the Reavers on Firefly once, about how they'd murder you, rape you and eat you, and if you were really lucky they'd do it in that order.

It was Zoe who said that – we just rewatched that in our Firefly rewatch! :)  [Also, I think one of them was about making clothes out of your skin, or something fun like that.]

[SimoneS]

Re Carl: Shane was an attempted rapist and murderer which is why the people "important to him" ran from him as far as they could get. Carl was budding sociopath like Shane. At least, Carl had an excuse struggling to grow up a Zombie Apocalypse. I think that Rick brought Carl back from the edge. Carl might think himself a monster, but when that stranger was attacked by the walkers and screamed for help, Carl ran to help him with a second thought and when Carl was attacked, he let Michonne comfort him. Carl is still more like his father and as long as he has his father and now Michonne, I think that he will stay that way..

Edited April 2, 2014 by SimoneS

[Watcher0363]

Well, now that season four is all wrapped upped. I thought I would post some thoughts on the season.

First I will acknowledge that this is the Walking Dead, where zombies in various states of decay are everywhere. And our hearty band of survivors are alive despite of themselves.

Having said that, this was my least favorite season. Because in order to show us character development they made the characters do really dumb stuff. Like Daryl opening a door without looking, walking into a dark tunnel, both Glenn and Maggie's I will go it alone to find my true lovvve. There was all this dumbness with very little pay off in what I considered to be weak character development.

Unlike many I really enjoyed season two character development. There we saw Shane's true nature reveal itself, we saw Glenn realizing his value. Andrea found her strength, Lori's Lady Macbeth nature revealed and the Herschel family saw the light as well as Carol realizing that the ZA is no place for weak children. To me season two was good stuff.

Except for the Micah, Carol dynamic playing itself out. I found everyone else's introspective angst rather boring including the episodes they were contained in. As it stands only 3 or 4 episodes really held my attention.

Hopefully maybe we will get some flashbacks in season five to give more weight to some of season four's episodes. Like perhaps Beth and Daryl breaking in a casket or two. Perhaps that would explain his don't look opening the door policy in the middle of the ZA.

[halgia]

My opinions might change with a little more distance from the season, but I thought this was the strongest one so far.

Season 1 was so short that it hardly counts, but I thought the pilot was excellent and then the rest was lackluster.

Season 2 had a strong opener and closer, but the farm was just interminable. Shane's arc was okay, but it took more time than I thought it earned; in particular, the episode where they "skipped" the big reveal about how he had killed what's-his-face to get away from the zombies sloppy. It also featured Dale's character being ruined at the end, and a lot of looking for Sophia and angstily hoping that Carl would recover and all that. It had good stuff in there, to be sure, but it had a lot of waffling about nothing for not enough payback. Remember the time they spent half an episode and risked Glen's life to try to lift a walker out of a well, like anyone was going to drink that anyway?

Season 3 also spent way longer moving the pieces around with Woodbury than I wanted, and I didn't like Rick's hallucinations / etc. It did have "Home," the one where Carl and Michonne make friends and we finally meet back up with the guy who saved Rick at the start of the series, which was a great change of pace. It had Merle being dumb, though he kind of redeemed himself at the end. It had Glenn and Maggie being tortured. It had the Governor keeping his daughter around in the hopes that she might come back (similar to Hershel's family keeping their walkers around in the hopes that they'd be cured). It had a whole lot of Andrea being all "oh I love the governor even though he's the worst!" And the fact that they didn't even kill him at the end of the season really discouraged me about the show's ability to move forward.

The first half of season 4 had the sickness stuff, which was a nice different kind of challenge for the gang to tackle (rather than "zombies attack! mean people attack! mean people make the zombies attack!"). It had Beth and Carol getting hard while Rick and Carl go all-in for farming. Yeah, it maybe spent a little too long on that, but it was nice to see the crew attempt a long-term plan for actually living somewhere and have some success at that. It humanized the Governor a bit, though it spent too long on that. Then it ended with a big 'ol fight and him ruining everything, which had a little complexity to it now that we've seen him be an actual person a little bit.

Second half had Carl and Rick fighting in a way more grounded "stop being so lame, Dad" way that was really refreshing to see (and Carl eating an enormous tub of pudding). Michonne opened up. Daryl and Beth grew a little bit, though clumsily. Yeah, Daryl not looking before opening the door was idiotic, but moving the plot forward by the characters doing stupid things isn't exactly new to this season. The Lizzie and Mika thing is probably one of the show's best episodes. Daryl fell in with a bad crowd and rejected them. There's some prospect of moving forward in the plot with Eugene/Abraham/Rosita, though Eugene's character choices aren't working and Rosita is a caricature of a person. Rick bit out a dude's neck! Not all of this was great, but I'd say three of the episodes were by the standards of this show ("After", "The Grove", "A") and none of the rest were bad except maybe "Still", which at least they were trying.

[6 MeowMeowBeenz]

OMG the secret was PBR all along!

 

Is that the solution that Eugene urgently needs to go to Washington to tell? 

[KirkB]

Carl doesn't understand the very fact he is worried about those issues means he is not as far gone as he thinks. Rick and Michonne both heard the guy calling for help and probably wouldn't have moved at all if not for Carl. I'm not saying they're monsters, just that they are far enough down the road of darkness Carl is wandering on that they can more easily distinguish when you should and should not get involved. Wading into a group of walkers for a stranger, while both kind and humane, is not smart. Had that been Beth or Glenn, they would do it, unless the horde was too big or else they would never be able to get to them in time. In which case I think they would mourn and move on. Carl sees this in his dad and Michonne and I think he is trying to work out what it means. Does one have to completely give up their humanity to survive in that world? In which case, is mere survival worth it? This is an interesting point of discussion for us, which may very well be what the writers are intending, but I think it's a little too much for a kid like Carl.

[kikismom]

Maybe Carl was remembering the Orange Backpack Guy on the road trip ("Clear"), and now he had a chance to make up for something that has bothered him.

I sometimes think about Rick's first meeting with Glenn, when he asks why Glenn would do something so risky to save a stranger (as they go in the ladder to get in the dept. store) and Glenn replies that he has this hope that he'll have some karma credit and someone would do the same thing for him if he needed it. Evidently I've remembered that longer than Rick has; I get that you can't save the world, but when somebody's right in front of you, damn!  I don't know if I'd want to keep living if I was so cold to someone begging for help, I'd hate myself so much I'd probably wish I was dead. There are some ugly ugly things you have to do, but...

I still don't know why they couldn't at least have helped Orange Backpack Guy by at least popping the trunk and leaving the lid up so he could at least hitch a ride on the outside if they were afraid he was too dangerous to let inside the car. Or told him to lie down in the road, frisk him, then give him a ride at least to a house on the way or a place with buildings so he wasn't on a lonely road surrounded by woods full of walkers and no shelter... the guy was pleading. Funny that Michonne didn't remember that when she approached the prison, surrounded by walkers gathering and close to losing her life, Rick took her in. He may have given her a pat-down just short of a whupping, but at least she was now inside the fence. And he could have just taken the formula and left her outside vulnerable to a feeding frenzy...kind of like letting that man die but taking his backpack. Carl saw all of that, he might want to do things differently. But Carl is still smart and brave; and not doing it because he was stupid. I saw Michonne take down as many walkers, all by herself, when she was snooping around Woodbury. I hope Carl has seen, and made, enough mistakes that he wants to set the bar higher.

[bravelittletoaster]

I always think it's shortsighted when they don't save healthy reproductive age people that they could have.  If the ultimate goal is humanity's survival, and not just one's own, the species isn't going to last very long if our crew are the only ones reproducing [and I'm thinking of quality as well as quantity here.]

[kikismom]

All the "good breeding stock" talk is giving me the fantods.  :-)

[radishcake]

@kikismom the screaming fantods? :D

[SometimesBites]

Loved this epi--Rick biting out a bad guy's throat was just so great. Let me say, too, that, when Rick, Michonne, Carl, and Daryl were running through Terminus and they passed a pile of human "leftovers"...holy moley, that was nasty. And great. I re-watched today and paused it there--rib cages, spinal columns, just wow. Very The Road.

 

Edited because the Oxford comma rules.

Edited April 5, 2014 by NewBaku

[SimoneS]

I think that Rick and everyone in his group have risked their lives to save each other and strangers over and over again. It is why they have all survived so long and have gotten to be such a large tight-knit group. However, this does not mean that they have always gotten it right. I think that they were at a particularly low point when they ignored the guy with the backpack on the road. Yet I find it hard to think that it would have been wise to let him in a car with them.

In this case, Rick and Michonne who are far more experienced than Carl were right to be cautious. The person calling for help could have been luring them into a trap. I actually thought that was exactly what Joe and company were doing until it turned out to be a stranger in real danger. When they saw the situation, they made the decision that they could not help him. I re-watched and it is hard to tell. Rick, Michonne, and Carl were tired and hungry, did not have a lot of ammo at that point, and there were a lot of walkers who had already surrounded the guy. 

[picklesprite]

a lot of walkers who had already surrounded the guy.

 

Had they already bitten him? That's how I remember it, but I could be wrong. If they had, Rick and Michonne would have known he was already a lost cause, but it would have been nice if they had put him out of his misery. Of course, that would have attracted the walkers to them, so. . .

Zombie Apocalypse Moral Quandry #426.

 

[SimoneS]

The walkers had not bitten him as yet. He was swinging a stick around as they converged on him. I agree that it is another moral question. 

I could barely look when I watched live, but on my re-watch, I realized that It was pretty cool how they showed the walker eating his face. I would love to see how they achieved that effect.

Edited April 5, 2014 by SimoneS

[picklesprite]

Lol, I had the exact same reaction to the face-eating.

[SometimesBites]

Another thought:

I don't think the Terminus folk are pure evil.  (They may be idiots.  And they've certainly pissed off Rick.)  I think they'll have an explantaion.  Maybe the ones who wind up on the plate have "volunteered."  Maybe there's a lottery.  (I'm not SAYING any of this is right.  But I bet there'll be an explanation.  This is an apocalypse, after all.  You have to do what you have to do.  Again: Not saying it's right.)

I think people stay there in safety at a price, but they know the price.  The interesting thing is will they offer to let our people go?  Maybe so, but maybe one of our team that wasn't seen in the episode got to Terminus a little too early and wound up with the short end of the stick.  And now they're marinating.  Rick won't take too kindly to that, no matter the explanation.

Right before all hell broke loose in Terminus, the creepy-smiley guy that had Herschel's/Glenn's watch said to Rick "When others become part of us, we become stronger" (may not be verbatim, but close). Plus, they have a gigantic heap of human remains--they are eating people, so THAT'S the price: Help us trap/slaughter/cook others, join us in whatever that room full of candles was all about, and we'll keep you, ahem...safe. erg.

[mandolin]

I'm finally getting to rewatch. A standout moment for me was right after Rick sees the watch, poncho, etc and takes Alex at gunpoint, Daryl immediately, instinctually draws his bow. What a testament to how much he trusts Rick. Love those two.

[Ava]

That orange backpack sure gets around!   Episode 3, "Isolation", Carl packs up the orange backpack to go into the administration wing with the rest of the at-risk people, then everything happens with the walkers taking down the fence and the governor's attack.  The orange backpack should have still been in the admin wing, but look!  There's Glenn in the cell block packing it up with the poncho and the other things he takes (watch, lighter etc).  I can see why Gimple wanted it in; it's something memorable (RIP Hitch Hiker Guy) but it really shouldn't be there.  I'm just going to fanwank that there's several orange backpacks around...yeah, that's it!

[ghoulina]

I'm finally getting to rewatch. A standout moment for me was right after Rick sees the watch, poncho, etc and takes Alex at gunpoint, Daryl immediately, instinctually draws his bow. What a testament to how much he trusts Rick. Love those two.

 

Yup. That was a great moment. They all immediately raised their weapons - Carl and Michonne too. Those four are probably my favorite of all the splintered groups. They're like a well-oiled machine. 

[kikismom]

That's so right; the other splinter-groups can't hold a candle to the Richonne, Carl, Daryl posse...we need a name for the foursome! Any ideas?

BTW ghoulina: love your avatar!

[ghoulina]

Thanks, kikismom! 

 

I am horrible with names, but I'm sure one of our wittier posters can come up with something amazing for them!

[catrox14]

#Team Don'tFuckWithUs?

[Watcher0363]

Team Death Eternal: as in and his word shall carry death eternal to those who stand against the righteous.

I would love it after the Terminus people get there comeuppance. Eugene paraphrases DUNE: We the TDE have a saying "God created the walkers to train the faithful. One cannot go against the word of God."

Edited April 8, 2014 by Watcher0363

[ghoulina]

I agree, Dougal this has been my favorite season so far. I really did not HATE a single episode, though some were better than others. And there were strong stand-outs like "Internment", "Too Far Gone", "The Grove", and "A". I just really really loved it. It seemed more cohesive than any of the other seasons. I saw a strong theme and like the way the finale book-ended the premiere. I thought there was some really lovely character work from two of my favorites - Hershel and Carol. I think I cried in almost every single episode - and that's kind of the Ghoulina litmus test. 

 

I think our little group has done stupid things from day one, and will probably continue to do stupid things here and there (although, hopefully not as much!) because they're human. That's why I love this show. People do screw up, and I don't always think that's out of character. 

 

I'd say season three was my least favorite - I agree, way too much time spent on  Woodbury. And Andrea has got to me my most hated character of the entire series. I just couldn't WAIT for her to die. 

Edited April 8, 2014 by ghoulina

[Hinkypunk]

That's so right; the other splinter-groups can't hold a candle to the Richonne, Carl, Daryl posse...we need a name for the foursome! Any ideas?

Richonne Grixon.

[Watcher0363]

I did not realize until after reading someone else's post. That this was the first season that I watched week to week. Before this season I streamed whole seasons usually in one day.

So having to wait a week to see story development, probably lessened my enjoyment. The first half was okay because it was a group centric arc. And I could see where it was going week to week. But after the prison fell, they were evolving the characters. So I just needed things to move along quicker and perhaps tie in better. I am sure season 5 will probably weave together the timelines and positioning of our characters.

[Omar G.]

Oh, I forgot to post this after I Tweeted it to Glark.

For comparison's sake, the same bit as the last scene, but from the comic: 

http://twitter.com/omarg/status/451829194897367040

And Glark's sanitized for AMC version:

https://twitter.com/ExtraHotPodcast/status/451837441331060736

[walnutqueen]

I was watching The People's Couch segment on this episode - the reactions were pretty funny but my favorite had to be :

Gareth : Hi, I'm Gareth.  Welcome to Terminus.

Girl on couch : Is he wearing bronzer?!?

[NoWillToResist]

 

Carol goes to Terminus. She pretends to be a gullible mook, goes along with everything, and unlike Rickster does NOT reveal that she recognizes clothing and accessories.

I would really like to know how the Termites determine who joins them and who is dinner. I mean, surely they can't just take the meek and weak? They must need *some* fighters to defend the place and some spares to replace lost/killed people. I can't help but wonder if our gang's weapons sank them before they'd even started. Had they just walked in the front entrance, unarmed, would they have been welcomed? I mean, the Terminus sign did instruct that all weapons should be lowered, so how much of our group's entrance (hopped the fence, weapons up) affected their fate?

My hope is that if/when Carol turns up, they assume 'woman + baby = keep safe'. It would be interesting karma if Carol saving Judith is what saves Carol.

[eejm]

While I can't say it was my favorite series of episodes, I didn't mind the second half of the season.  I know "Still" gets a bad rap especially, but I kind of liked seeing characters together who hadn't otherwise interacted much yet on screen.  Only Michonne, Rick, and Carl had spent any significant time together before these episodes.  Carol and Tyreese, Tara and Glenn, Maggie/Bob/Sasha, and even Daryl and Beth - I thought it was interesting to see how these new pairs and triads got along.  The way they all made it to Terminus and were finally together at the end in the boxcar, Rick's speech about screwing with the wrong people, and the hope that Carol, Tyreese and Beth are still unaccounted for makes me excited to see next season.

Edited April 12, 2014 by eejm

[Watcher0363]

The second half of the season or the "scattering" still bugs. Because I truly do not know if it was for character development or if it was to save money. So they could front load season five with lots of characters and action scenes. The ratings for the season finale were lower than the season opener. A first for TWD, so l guess I was not the only one disappointed in the latter half of the season.

After watching season three I was on pins and needles waiting for four to begin. So far not really anxious for season five, maybe it will come in a few months.

[dannymoon]

As awesome as S1 was, I agree it's hard to judge with only 6 episodes. For me, this season was my favorite, definitely. I enjoyed the back half of S4, even though I was dying to know what was up with the other groups! But even with a weaker episode like "Still" I still appreciated the focus on just 2 or 3 characters at once. I certainly don't think the producers should shoot it this way often, but I think it was a good decision to change it up with such a large group of actors. LOVED the S4 finale, moreso on re-watch. It had the right amount of bad-ass action, tension, but also downtime for character development and strengthening relationships. Between Rick & Hershel, Rick and Daryl, Michonne with Carl. Terrific. I think the final minute and last line by Rick felt kinda flat, but it still managed to get me pumped for S5! Goodness October seems far away.

I enjoyed S2 and S3 but for me, there were many more highs and lows interspersed. During the last marathon weekend (when I was home sick with the flu, so WD kept me company), I had forgotten how much I loved the premiere of S3 - Seed. Watching everyone work together as a machine to clear that prison. Merle was compelling, as was Rick and Daryl tearing up Woodbury to rescue Glenn & Maggie. I didn't care for Andrea ever since she walked out of that CDC (You took away my choices! And my guns!), and it grew to hate. But putting her idiocy and self-importance aside for a second, I realized I didn't hate the Woodbury plot so much AS it was airing last year (and I think David Morrissey rocked the role anyway), but when it marathoned, I changed the channel during those parts.

Backtracking further to S2, I felt way more tired of the farting around the farm when those episodes were airing the first time, but I found them more interesting on re-watch. It's only 2 years ago, but everyone looks so young and naive and in hindsight I find the moral ambiguity and soul-searching at least a bit more compelling. The Sophia reveal was great, and good 'ole Shane was fascinating. S4 touched on the question of whether you could come back from the horrible things you've done. Shane just...could not.

Edited April 14, 2014 by dannymoon

[SpaghettiTuesdays]

Season 1: I was okay with this season. It was a lot of people dying and risking lives for going on stupid runs for a few things when they could've gathered a lot more. I could never figure out why they stayed so close to Atlanta, either.

Season 2: While I really liked the character development, as I rewatch it brings back all of those "I hate *insert character here* feelings" I had the first time I watch. More than once I've found myself thinking how stupid people behave. But then I realized they're learning. It's still in the early stages of the apocalypse and they haven't had stability in a long time.

Season 3: I could take it or leave it. I enjoyed seeing how Woodbury was run, but it seemed like every other character was hamming it up. I hate Andrea with a passion, so I cheered when she died, but it was pretty gruesome. Michonne's introduction, as well as Tyrese, Sasha, and the gang was pretty neat. Rick teaching Carl how to be human again, and baby Judith's entrance into the world. I hope Daryl and Carol raise that child to be bad ass but still a human being, IYKWIM.

Season 4: I was frustrated, but only because I wanted to check in on every group every episode. I understand that it was for thematic purposes, but there were some I didn't care about (Maggie-Sasha-Bob) as much as I did others (Carol-Tyrese-the girls). Carol was phenomenal this season and I enjoyed Tyrese as well. The Glenn-Tara thing was interesting, too. The power of forgiveness and all that jazz. I think she's a good addition to the team. Terminus itself is just as we all anticipated. I think "The Talking Dead" had a poll where 96% (or so - I don't remember the exact, but I know it was high) said they had a bad feeling about it. I can't wait to see what's going to happen.

Hopes for Season 5: I want the CDB group to kick ass, of course. I hope the timeline is wonky and Judith is nowhere near Terminus. I'd like to see the buildup to the end of the Termites, though, and not in flashbacks.

[Pete Martell]

The second half of the season or the "scattering" still bugs. Because I truly do not know if it was for character development or if it was to save money. So they could front load season five with lots of characters and action scenes. The ratings for the season finale were lower than the season opener. A first for TWD, so l guess I was not the only one disappointed in the latter half of the season.

After watching season three I was on pins and needles waiting for four to begin. So far not really anxious for season five, maybe it will come in a few months.

They were, IIRC, barely lower (at least in 18-49), and the premiere ratings were a record high. I think TWD is at a point where there aren't going to be new ratings records. There are likely going to be declines. It's an aging show that has likely reached pop culture saturation point.

I thought season 3 petered out once they got past Lori's and T'Dog's death. There was a lot of assumption on the show's part that viewers would be fascinated by The Governor, would see him as another Rick, and would care about his decay. I can see where the idea came from, but I don't think it warranted so much airtime. I didn't need to see The Governor attack the prison, or to have a big war. I knew that would never make sense, because the comic book had way more characters to kill off at that time than the show did. Unfortunately, the only way to not have The Governor and his army attack the prison was to have him go nuts on his own army and then run away. So there's no drama, after so many episodes setting up this drama. Andrea died, which was dramatic, but it left a bad taste in my mouth, because ultimately she died for nothing. And I felt like she was being punished for being unpopular with viewers. The idea of two of the show's main women being punished by death for being unpopular with viewers made me extremely uneasy. It will always make me uneasy watching this show and any female characters going forward. I also felt like most of season 3 just had no characterization for most of the group - everything ground to a halt. Things would happen TO them and they'd gnash their teeth, but they were blank slates otherwise.

I did like the parts of the finale that involved the Woodbury group moving in, and Rick saying goodbye to Lori.

I feel like the show wasted the Woodbury group as redshirts and they left the prison too early (I think I'm in the minority there), but my only major complaints with this season were giving two full episodes to The Governor and not doing a better job explaining Carol's POV for killing Karen and David. 

I really liked that we got more fleshed out characterizations this season. They didn't always work (Beth), but I still liked seeing the show make the effort. I liked the way they tackled the "what do you do to survive?" theme - I don't think they've handled it as well as they have this season. I thought they did a wonderful job with Carl's characterization this season - he is a central character, a vital character, not just a kid who is gun happy or doesn't stay in the house. And other than Abraham's group, I cared about all the new characters. Not killing off most of these characters means next season has higher stakes for me, because I don't know who will die.